You can DPS all you want. But you need to realize when you wipe out all the enemies with some over powered shizzle.
You rob the other players of any chance to help, try, contribute, play and have fun as a team in an ONLINE game.
You finish the mission before we can do anything by exploiting the bad balance.
And you give us relaxed and normally players hefty afk penalties.
and u are still bitching...
i dont get it, someone whos playing since beta and has such a low knowledge of how this game works nowadays....
and if - for god sake- someome finishies before u can do something heres a little tiny tipp for u SWAP THE MAP and go into a new red alert holy moly so much bitching about nothing.
u should seriously decide between getting better urself at this game OR STOP BITCHING ABOUT players that put some time and work in their builds, cause someone whos playing this game since beta and is still calling cubes in a red alert *hard* is doing something wrong imao
On normal its more than possible to one or two shot a borg cube, takes me a second or two but I'm probably what you'd call midrange in dps. Now call up one of those dps monstars and yeah, one good crit can easily take out a cube on normal. Thar be monstars out thar capp'n.
The bold part made me laugh while I was eating my bean burrito. That was funny.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
I don't expect you to either. Seeing how hostile and aggressive some players are, as mentioned earlier getting bashed at for using wrong weapons and powers.
I aslo experienced this on the DS9 mirror PVE. This one guy kept calling me for a stupid TRIBBLE because I used tractor beam on a ship.
And now you're calling 99% of the players for grandma? Since only about 1 % was DPS junkies.
I don't expect you to join the rest of the players and fight more "fair" in a team to have fun.
I hope development realizes the issue and tone you down. Or restrict you to a higher level of difficulty together with your equals. Or at least remove the hefty afk penalties for us stupid TRIBBLE and grandmas who apparently doesn't know how to play
I'm sorry if this thread seems hostile. That was not the intent. At first I was curious how this was possible, but now I find it unfair. Especially with the afk penalties. I have a good build. Nothing like the DPS people. But it seems the moment I or anyone else cannot fill that role. We're all just TRIBBLE grandmas. lol
Would it not be better DPS focused people are forced or can engage harder difficulties with their equals for a greater challenge. Instead of finishing a map in 20 seconds while everyone else in the instance gets punished....
Oh I hear ya Kate... there has been more than one time where I have seen a Red Alert pop, only to see the Unimatrix at half health by the time I got there.
I'm sorry if this thread seems hostile. That was not the intent. At first I was curious how this was possible, but now I find it unfair. Especially with the afk penalties. I have a good build. Nothing like the DPS people. But it seems the moment I or anyone else can fill that role. We're all just TRIBBLE grandmas. lol
Would it not be better DPS focused people are forced or can engage harder difficulties with their equals for a greater challenge. Instead of finishing a map in 20 seconds while everyone else in the instance gets punished....
again...the only reason a certain group of people u call *DPS people* is even going into these red alerts is that its bye far the fastest way to get a ship mastery to level 5 not more not less....they dont go into red alerts to destroy ur fun.
theres actually no faster way to grind masteries so u gonna see someone people rushing these alerts from time to time...
I don't expect you to either. Seeing how hostile and aggressive some players are, as mentioned earlier getting bashed at for using wrong weapons and powers.
I aslo experienced this on the DS9 mirror PVE. This one guy kept calling me for a stupid TRIBBLE because I used tractor beam on a ship.
And now you're calling 99% of the players for grandma? Since only about 1 % was DPS junkies.
I don't expect you to join the rest of the players and fight mire "fair" in a team to have fun.
I hope development realizes the issue and tone you down. Or restrict you to a higher level of difficulty together with your equals
Like I said earlier, this thread of yours finally came out to truly show what it was: An "Anti-DPS Thread," just hidden under the initial veil of "surprise" of how someone can quickly destroy those Red Alert Cubes.
Now that you've dropped that mask, let's dance this dance.
I am not a "DPS junkie." But I know this cakewalk easy game. I was there for STO's Open Beta. I was there for launch and the half-assed game STO was at the time. I was there for LOR. I was there for DR. I used to PVP when there actually was PVP going on in this game and it was because of PVP that I really learned to play the game and its mechanics. I had to learn this game because I did not want to lose.
What I *DO* care about was performance and you can readily see that without a parser. I push for my ships to perform a specific function well and be able to survive the battle intact. I take immense joy from carrying the team, doing damage, taking the fire, and for the ship to leave battle without ever being destroyed.
The difference between you and me was that for a variety of reasons, I got into the GUTS of this game to make my builds fly and fight better. I never gave someone else TRIBBLE for performing better than me, PVE or PVP. Most especially in my PVP days, I wanted to understand:
"Why did that guy beat me?"
"How did he do that?"
"How can I get better?"
I am not holding back my performance because someone is doing worse off. Matter of fact, these days all I do is PUG the queues to help carry guys like you to have better Mark rewards in the end.
I'll admit i can pretty much solo Borg Red Alerts and wipe out most mobs in under 10 secs. I use them to level up starship mastery as Borg Alerts and Tholian Alerts are the quickest route. Tholian also being a easy 960 dil and daily Nukara and Romulan mark pick up to. They also contribute to spec points greater than STF's and patrol missions.
I worked it out (Math may be out) Killing the 5 smaller patrols in Tholian Red Alert is roughly between 20-25k xp. Thats more xp than running a 5 mob patrol like Japori 4 times. A lot more. So players will flock to the best place to gain rewards to shorten the grind because thats human nature. I don't want to fly some 10-15 Pve Maps maybe more to level up a starship trait i want to take and use in PvE Queues. So i level up in Borg and Tholian Red Alerts 1st so i can use that trait where i want to.
Maybe the best solution for Borg Alerts and Tholian. i can't ever remember seeing more than 5 people a time in these maps is to instantly auto team on entry. Therefore every single kill, for every player in that map gets the XP reward, Just like STF's, its the fairest way and cuts out the competition to have to kill as much as quick as possible so YOU get the XP and stop others from getting it so you don't
Any DHC pilot ship with mk14s and full buffs on will be able to 1 shot those. Good DBB boat will smother 3-4 of those in 2-3 BFAW+buffs salvos. It's all in right setup and high level/quality of equipment. Red alerts are normal level content, it's no miracle that high end ships overgears it heavily.
My point? Tough luck to end up being in the same group, I have said many times there should be higher tiers of red alert. At this time, it's pretty bad you've got no tag (and afk penalty which shouldn't have happened if you engaged ships and did some damage, that was a bug probably), and it's totaly rude the things you've experienced (which just shows the intellectual level some of the people in our community... which you should not let bother you in the slightest), of which I am sorry.
On the flipside people with high end gear shouldn't be limited in using their ships and gear they acquired or forced to withhold the damage since it wouldn't be fun for them. Likewise, while I don't think it would solve the issue, you could work on your own DPS, bumping it over the limit needed to earn rewards (though I never heard yet getting nothing out of it no matter how low dps, except maybe entering the instance at the final few seconds of the unimatrix fight, so like I said this might've been a bug if you contributed to the dps).
This is the reason why there should be higher difficulty levels of alerts, or, like I said in game on zone, scaling alerts. That way no matter who you end up with, the whole thing scales (enemy damage dealing, HP pools etc) to the appropriate level that corresponds to the power of all the players currently playing together. Not just a fixed level a high end ship can outgear solo.
Edipss, tone it down. If you have a piece to say, say it in an mature, meaningful way. I agree that high end players shouldn't be punished or boxed/forced to lower their dps (they did work hard to attain that dps, or they paid alot, either way they're having fun and they shouldn't be forced to let go of it), and I do think the OP could probably work on her DPS, although this strictly wouldn't solve the issue completely. The kicker here, however, is to put it in a meaningful and polite way.
There should be a PvE bootcamp. Yes, Reddit helps, yes PMing someone from dps groups and shooting them metric tons of questions helps as well, but this isn't necessarily a solution to most people. A friendly, fun way is the best way to not only become better and learn but to also have fun.
We cannot expect people to have fun when there's others one shotting their way and they aren't doing any damage (and I'm being objective here since I'm one of those people with high dps builds). So we need to help these people make a build that will milk last drops of damage/survivability out of their ship and gear of choice. In the same time, I think that some scaling system, or at the very worst higher difficulty alerts should be implemented. This way everyone gets a better experienced and more challenged out of the system, and equal chances for participation and loot.
The build may be one thing but I find the biggest impediment is the Red Alert Cooldown. You can't get to the next target in time.
And I have been advocating for mandatory grouping for some time.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The first game which scaled dynamically based on player effectiveness was for the NINTENDO ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM.
This thing people. I'm almost 30 and its older than me.
It should be child's play to implement enemies which scale based on player performance as the mission progresses.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I remember being in a PvE awhile back and one of the ships out there was ragging on me and my ship, calling me a loser and saying that my weapons sucked. I had no idea any of that was happening because I don't pay much attention to the shoutbox when doing these things. But once I got outside the map when it was done, I read a lot of "Look at me"s, "Ur weapons suck!" and "Ur a loser"s was there from that guy, aimed at me (He used the name of my toon that was in there). I didn't let it bother me, I just did what I had to do and left. S/He wanted to be a jackass, fine. Even if I'd seen it in the instance, I would not have responded. It's what the little troll would have wanted.
Maybe whoever it was, was one of those DPSers, I don't know. I know I don't get any kind of major DPS, I just survive and blow up my enemies, which is the goal of any mission. But I do rather like my fights to last longer than ten or twenty seconds. That gets very boring, very quickly.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I am not going to talk about way back when per say, but I will say this, the game has never been balanced. In the beginning ground was awful with four npcs including yourself up against mobs ranging from 10 to 20 npcs per group. With what was about 6 groups on average. Ship numbers were also a nightmare. Is this dps fault? Is this specific careers fault? I think it is neither. They could make individual ships tough as nails but then they would have to scale down every mission in this game to facing one maybe two ships at a given time. Otherwise missions would turn into a time fest of one hour or more to get done. I know because I saw the early game. Those genesis missions made you want to slam your head threw the wall. So I believe the intent is to find neutral ground. The big problem is fleets can hand out some nasty gear in the area of damage, combine that with some of the reputation gear, and the result is npcs go boom way too fast. Now take that all away, and put a fresh player in the slot and suddenly its a tough fight. This could go round and round but in the end I do not think its a simple mater. I think this game would have done better had they taken our advice from before launch and done a bridge commander style game in space, instead of a shoot em up arcade in space.
But the Borg cubes in the red alert are much harder to beat than the default ones encountered in missions or spawned in missions from the foundry? A mission cube blows up rather quickly. The red alert ones are thougher.
I think you got this figured backwards. Cubes in STF Advanceds are 'harder' than Cubes in a Red Alert. The latter are a complete and utter joke (except maybe for the big Diamond ship... if it ever cares to show up).
Damage buffs etc etc are inevitably going to need significant diminishing returns in the near future otherwise the power gap between players is just going to become nigh impossible to balance any content for. There are just too many ways to stack and stack buff after buff for damages with no penalty, yet things like resists and stuff such as armors do have penalties, why doesn't damage obey the same rules?
First, I also had no idea you could get an AFK penalty in a Red Alert.
I will side with the OP on that issue, that should be corrected.
As for the rest of the problem, I'm sorry.. but it's on you.. deal with it.
I'm one of those people that can pop a cube in a couple shots. Especially on my Romulan, I usually destroy the cube before I can fully decloak. Yes, sometimes I kill things before other players can get there, but I have put a lot of work and resources into my character(s) and I won't apologize for being effective in combat.
I do wish they would remove the AFK penalty because I honestly don't want to cost anyone rewards, but that complaint is with Cryptic. I'm not going to dumb down my play because their system is broken. This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone getting an AFK in a red alert.
I only hit red alerts for fast mastery XP because some dev had the awesome idea to hand out like 10-20 times more in this normal difficulty surrounding than in top end pve elite contend. Earning mastery XP also means that I most likely fly a ship I dislike on a not fitting build and I confront this ridiculous trivial contend with a bugged attitude. Naturally I want to get it over with as quickly as possible which means I don’t care pretty much how everybody else is doing. I just want to harvest as much cheap critter smashing XP as I can so I can move on and play with my in game friends. My gameplay even gets more dissocial when I leave an instance prematurely before the boss fight so I don’t get a cd on the red alert and I can to the next as quickly as possible.
Each mastery I unlock contributes to my DPS centric builds bringing me into a position to play pve with just about anybody in game reaching from top DPSer down to hopeless pugs. The latter I carry on a close to daily basis which I can do just fine and without being annoyed. I try to keep 9 characters at PvE endgame on a limited gaming time so I tend to play most efficiently which I do under the rules cryptic laid out for us. Considering how many players bring their 5k fun builds to end game and expect to be carried I don’t have developed a bad conscience over what I’m doing.
Still I apologize if you have met me in a red alert. Should not happen that often again.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Not it isn't. If you bothered to read the OP and the OP's posts in this thread, it's very much created as an Anti-DPS thread. Not at first from the initial post but it becomes very apparent.
The News Flash is you don't need to be a DPS'er to curb stomp the ever living TRIBBLE out of this easy game with it's worthless Damage Sponge NPCs that can't counter the most basic debuffs or attacks, and barely do anything in return.
The simple fact that the NPCs cannot even cycle Tactical Team, thereby depriving a large chunk of debuffs that players rely on makes it all a joke to stomp them.
You can DPS all you want. But you need to realize when you wipe out all the enemies...
You rob the other players of any chance to help, try, contribute, play and have fun as a team...
You finish the mission before we can do anything...
But they don't care. They're trying to do it as fast as possible. The fact the battle allows multiple players is just an annoyance for them.
And while I've never gotten an AFK penalty from a Red Alert, I have joined a few where it's already almost over. This is frustrating when I'm trying to get the XP for mastery of a new ship. Aside from that I don't usually bother with RAs.
Comments
People are not going to hold back for the sake of the old lady with the walker to go by.
and u are still bitching...
i dont get it, someone whos playing since beta and has such a low knowledge of how this game works nowadays....
and if - for god sake- someome finishies before u can do something heres a little tiny tipp for u SWAP THE MAP and go into a new red alert holy moly so much bitching about nothing.
u should seriously decide between getting better urself at this game OR STOP BITCHING ABOUT players that put some time and work in their builds, cause someone whos playing this game since beta and is still calling cubes in a red alert *hard* is doing something wrong imao
The bold part made me laugh while I was eating my bean burrito. That was funny.
I aslo experienced this on the DS9 mirror PVE. This one guy kept calling me for a stupid TRIBBLE because I used tractor beam on a ship.
And now you're calling 99% of the players for grandma? Since only about 1 % was DPS junkies.
I don't expect you to join the rest of the players and fight more "fair" in a team to have fun.
I hope development realizes the issue and tone you down. Or restrict you to a higher level of difficulty together with your equals. Or at least remove the hefty afk penalties for us stupid TRIBBLE and grandmas who apparently doesn't know how to play
Would it not be better DPS focused people are forced or can engage harder difficulties with their equals for a greater challenge. Instead of finishing a map in 20 seconds while everyone else in the instance gets punished....
again...the only reason a certain group of people u call *DPS people* is even going into these red alerts is that its bye far the fastest way to get a ship mastery to level 5 not more not less....they dont go into red alerts to destroy ur fun.
theres actually no faster way to grind masteries so u gonna see someone people rushing these alerts from time to time...
deal with it
Like I said earlier, this thread of yours finally came out to truly show what it was: An "Anti-DPS Thread," just hidden under the initial veil of "surprise" of how someone can quickly destroy those Red Alert Cubes.
Now that you've dropped that mask, let's dance this dance.
I am not a "DPS junkie." But I know this cakewalk easy game. I was there for STO's Open Beta. I was there for launch and the half-assed game STO was at the time. I was there for LOR. I was there for DR. I used to PVP when there actually was PVP going on in this game and it was because of PVP that I really learned to play the game and its mechanics. I had to learn this game because I did not want to lose.
What I *DO* care about was performance and you can readily see that without a parser. I push for my ships to perform a specific function well and be able to survive the battle intact. I take immense joy from carrying the team, doing damage, taking the fire, and for the ship to leave battle without ever being destroyed.
The difference between you and me was that for a variety of reasons, I got into the GUTS of this game to make my builds fly and fight better. I never gave someone else TRIBBLE for performing better than me, PVE or PVP. Most especially in my PVP days, I wanted to understand:
"Why did that guy beat me?"
"How did he do that?"
"How can I get better?"
I am not holding back my performance because someone is doing worse off. Matter of fact, these days all I do is PUG the queues to help carry guys like you to have better Mark rewards in the end.
In most instances you do not carry us to greater marks but penalties. Not always but often.
I worked it out (Math may be out) Killing the 5 smaller patrols in Tholian Red Alert is roughly between 20-25k xp. Thats more xp than running a 5 mob patrol like Japori 4 times. A lot more. So players will flock to the best place to gain rewards to shorten the grind because thats human nature. I don't want to fly some 10-15 Pve Maps maybe more to level up a starship trait i want to take and use in PvE Queues. So i level up in Borg and Tholian Red Alerts 1st so i can use that trait where i want to.
Maybe the best solution for Borg Alerts and Tholian. i can't ever remember seeing more than 5 people a time in these maps is to instantly auto team on entry. Therefore every single kill, for every player in that map gets the XP reward, Just like STF's, its the fairest way and cuts out the competition to have to kill as much as quick as possible so YOU get the XP and stop others from getting it so you don't
My point? Tough luck to end up being in the same group, I have said many times there should be higher tiers of red alert. At this time, it's pretty bad you've got no tag (and afk penalty which shouldn't have happened if you engaged ships and did some damage, that was a bug probably), and it's totaly rude the things you've experienced (which just shows the intellectual level some of the people in our community... which you should not let bother you in the slightest), of which I am sorry.
On the flipside people with high end gear shouldn't be limited in using their ships and gear they acquired or forced to withhold the damage since it wouldn't be fun for them. Likewise, while I don't think it would solve the issue, you could work on your own DPS, bumping it over the limit needed to earn rewards (though I never heard yet getting nothing out of it no matter how low dps, except maybe entering the instance at the final few seconds of the unimatrix fight, so like I said this might've been a bug if you contributed to the dps).
This is the reason why there should be higher difficulty levels of alerts, or, like I said in game on zone, scaling alerts. That way no matter who you end up with, the whole thing scales (enemy damage dealing, HP pools etc) to the appropriate level that corresponds to the power of all the players currently playing together. Not just a fixed level a high end ship can outgear solo.
Edipss, tone it down. If you have a piece to say, say it in an mature, meaningful way. I agree that high end players shouldn't be punished or boxed/forced to lower their dps (they did work hard to attain that dps, or they paid alot, either way they're having fun and they shouldn't be forced to let go of it), and I do think the OP could probably work on her DPS, although this strictly wouldn't solve the issue completely. The kicker here, however, is to put it in a meaningful and polite way.
There should be a PvE bootcamp. Yes, Reddit helps, yes PMing someone from dps groups and shooting them metric tons of questions helps as well, but this isn't necessarily a solution to most people. A friendly, fun way is the best way to not only become better and learn but to also have fun.
We cannot expect people to have fun when there's others one shotting their way and they aren't doing any damage (and I'm being objective here since I'm one of those people with high dps builds). So we need to help these people make a build that will milk last drops of damage/survivability out of their ship and gear of choice. In the same time, I think that some scaling system, or at the very worst higher difficulty alerts should be implemented. This way everyone gets a better experienced and more challenged out of the system, and equal chances for participation and loot.
This fixes issues on both sides of the coin.
And I have been advocating for mandatory grouping for some time.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This thing people. I'm almost 30 and its older than me.
It should be child's play to implement enemies which scale based on player performance as the mission progresses.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
It's becoming one.
Maybe whoever it was, was one of those DPSers, I don't know. I know I don't get any kind of major DPS, I just survive and blow up my enemies, which is the goal of any mission. But I do rather like my fights to last longer than ten or twenty seconds. That gets very boring, very quickly.
I think you got this figured backwards. Cubes in STF Advanceds are 'harder' than Cubes in a Red Alert. The latter are a complete and utter joke (except maybe for the big Diamond ship... if it ever cares to show up).
I will side with the OP on that issue, that should be corrected.
As for the rest of the problem, I'm sorry.. but it's on you.. deal with it.
I'm one of those people that can pop a cube in a couple shots. Especially on my Romulan, I usually destroy the cube before I can fully decloak. Yes, sometimes I kill things before other players can get there, but I have put a lot of work and resources into my character(s) and I won't apologize for being effective in combat.
I do wish they would remove the AFK penalty because I honestly don't want to cost anyone rewards, but that complaint is with Cryptic. I'm not going to dumb down my play because their system is broken. This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone getting an AFK in a red alert.
I only hit red alerts for fast mastery XP because some dev had the awesome idea to hand out like 10-20 times more in this normal difficulty surrounding than in top end pve elite contend. Earning mastery XP also means that I most likely fly a ship I dislike on a not fitting build and I confront this ridiculous trivial contend with a bugged attitude. Naturally I want to get it over with as quickly as possible which means I don’t care pretty much how everybody else is doing. I just want to harvest as much cheap critter smashing XP as I can so I can move on and play with my in game friends. My gameplay even gets more dissocial when I leave an instance prematurely before the boss fight so I don’t get a cd on the red alert and I can to the next as quickly as possible.
Each mastery I unlock contributes to my DPS centric builds bringing me into a position to play pve with just about anybody in game reaching from top DPSer down to hopeless pugs. The latter I carry on a close to daily basis which I can do just fine and without being annoyed. I try to keep 9 characters at PvE endgame on a limited gaming time so I tend to play most efficiently which I do under the rules cryptic laid out for us. Considering how many players bring their 5k fun builds to end game and expect to be carried I don’t have developed a bad conscience over what I’m doing.
Still I apologize if you have met me in a red alert. Should not happen that often again.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Not it isn't. If you bothered to read the OP and the OP's posts in this thread, it's very much created as an Anti-DPS thread. Not at first from the initial post but it becomes very apparent.
The News Flash is you don't need to be a DPS'er to curb stomp the ever living TRIBBLE out of this easy game with it's worthless Damage Sponge NPCs that can't counter the most basic debuffs or attacks, and barely do anything in return.
The simple fact that the NPCs cannot even cycle Tactical Team, thereby depriving a large chunk of debuffs that players rely on makes it all a joke to stomp them.
And while I've never gotten an AFK penalty from a Red Alert, I have joined a few where it's already almost over. This is frustrating when I'm trying to get the XP for mastery of a new ship. Aside from that I don't usually bother with RAs.