I can't wait for the upcoming dev blog(s) that show just how excited the STO team is to release $30 pilot ships for gameplay that makes you feel like you're playing on a 14.4k dial-up modem in Somalia.
And the players of STO will buy those ships up like hotcakes despite the crippling, unenjoyable, frustrating lag, and the probability they'll become obsolete within a year and 'encouraged' to buy an upgraded version of it for another $30.
In all likelihood... the Piloting ships will be fine.
The Command ships have the Inspiration mechanic that generates based on team activities... which is likely the root of the problem. If you group with Command ships, a little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" appears for each ship on the team, which then sends information back to the Command ship for every ability you use in order for the Command ship to accrue Inspiration. When enough Inspiration builds, the Command ships can then pass additional buffs out to the team by activating their Inspiration abilities. All this creates constant communication between the Command ship(s) and every other teammate... which is compounded as more Command ships are added to the team...
That's just my take on what could be causing the lag, though. Maybe it doesn't really work that way, but that's how the Inspiration mechanic was described, which could naturally lead to increases in lag due the all that communication between teammates (back and forth, at varying network speeds). Piloting, though doesn't do any of that cross-communication (again, merely based on what we've been told in the blogs), so shouldn't cause or suffer from the same issue.
Unless teamed with one of those Command ships. That people did, in fact, pay for...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
In all likelihood... the Piloting ships will be fine.
The Command ships have the Inspiration mechanic that generates based on team activities... which is likely the root of the problem. If you group with Command ships, a little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" appears for each ship on the team, which then sends information back to the Command ship for every ability you use in order for the Command ship to accrue Inspiration. When enough Inspiration builds, the Command ships can then pass additional buffs out to the team by activating their Inspiration abilities. All this creates constant communication between the Command ship(s) and every other teammate... which is compounded as more Command ships are added to the team...
That's just my take on what could be causing the lag, though. Maybe it doesn't really work that way, but that's how the Inspiration mechanic was described, which could naturally lead to increases in lag due the all that communication between teammates (back and forth, at varying network speeds). Piloting, though doesn't do any of that cross-communication (again, merely based on what we've been told in the blogs), so shouldn't cause or suffer from the same issue.
Unless teamed with one of those Command ships. That people did, in fact, pay for...
Wait, what? Awwww TRIBBLE...
Kinda... Inspiration is generated by activating abilities, both by yourself and by your teammates. Basically every single activation your whole team does is adding a calculation for Inspiration.
Activating a Inspiration buff is different though, it affects Allies, not team mates...
Allies include, yourself, team mates, all pets (hangar, device, console), weapon turrets/platforms, targetable torpedoes, even Eject Warp Plasma gas...
The Inspiration buff themselves work like a PBAOE, they only affect the closest 5 allies to you. So if you have 6 pets out, and they are closer to you than your team mates, then most of the pets will get the buff while you team mates will get a nice lag spike.
Kinda... Inspiration is generated by activating abilities, both by yourself and by your teammates. Basically every single activation your whole team does is adding a calculation for Inspiration.
Activating a Inspiration buff is different though, it affects Allies, not team mates...
Allies include, yourself, team mates, all pets (hangar, device, console), weapon turrets/platforms, targetable torpedoes, even Eject Warp Plasma gas...
The Inspiration buff themselves work like a PBAOE, they only affect the closest 5 allies to you. So if you have 6 pets out, and they are closer to you than your team mates, then most of the pets will get the buff while you team mates will get a nice lag spike.
Yup, that's kind of how I interpreted Inspiration generation as working, via that little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" that appears whenever a Command Ship is on your team (though I probably didn't word it properly)... for each Command Ship on the team...
As to the Inspiration buffs... EWP? Really? That's not very Inspiring...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Yup, that's kind of how I interpreted Inspiration generation as working, via that little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" that appears whenever a Command Ship is on your team (though I probably didn't word it properly)... for each Command Ship on the team...
As to the Inspiration buffs... EWP? Really? That's not very Inspiring...
1. Create a character and grind reputation.
2. Buy best ships
3. Buy best traits.
4. Buy/craft/upgrade best weapons.
5. Buy best dofs.
6. Grind XP like a madmen to get best specializations.
After all that work u get **** enjoyment. But don't stop buy more, new season coming soon ...
Yea I think that really is the best they ever pulled, and one thing you can only find in Star Trek Online. Your level of enthusiasm towards the game (time, money, effort) directly results in the level of bad game performance you get.
I mean wow, developers of other games should really have a fun time seeing this one.
And here Cryptic is tending to the next XP nerf in the doff system.
Im as close to speechless as it can get.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
...and right from the start, hitting any ability put all abilities on the 5s spin CD - weapons won't fire - etc, etc, etc.
It's kind of trippy, stepping back a moment from the frustration, and thinking about it. It's almost like the little buffering thing from trying to watch a video over a bad connection where you get the little animation like a clock doohickey - everything on the bar spinning like...you will not hit any abilities nor do anything for 5s, please try again later.
...and right from the start, hitting any ability put all abilities on the 5s spin CD - weapons won't fire - etc, etc, etc.
It's kind of trippy, stepping back a moment from the frustration, and thinking about it. It's almost like the little buffering thing from trying to watch a video over a bad connection where you get the little animation like a clock doohickey - everything on the bar spinning like...you will not hit any abilities nor do anything for 5s, please try again later.
could be worse, could be like trying to view a 100kb GIF at 2400 Baud.
Anybody else notice the distinct lack of lag deniers responding to this thread? Like one certain keyboard warrior who shall remain nameless... we all know who I am talking about.
Anybody else notice the distinct lack of lag deniers responding to this thread? Like one certain keyboard warrior who shall remain nameless... we all know who I am talking about.
Yea but he could just be on plasmavocation or nugging SWTOR forums. Let's better save that bottle of Champaign for the time being.
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I'm curious, what method was used to determine that Command Ships are the cause of the Lag?
I'm not saying I deny it, the timing seems to line up, but do we know exactly what it is? Is it the Inspiration mechanic, a ship trait, what?
The reason I ask is because I fly a Presidio on my Main. I use All hands on Deck, as well as several other C-Store ship traits and I have not experienced this problem to this degree. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not here saying 'it doesn't happen to me so it's not happening,' obviously there is a problem. I have had some slight lag from time to time, but I have never ever seen anything like the horror in that video.
I would really like to know how it was determined that it's Command Ships causing the problem. If that's the case, then maybe I'll switch ships for a while until they can get this fixed. I haven't seen this myself, but for all I know I'm causing it for others. Not a good thought.
Anybody else notice the distinct lack of lag deniers responding to this thread? Like one certain keyboard warrior who shall remain nameless... we all know who I am talking about.
oh btw ran one of the newer STF's last night,3 of the command ships,one Phantom and one Pathfinder with all the traits you mentioned...and none of us had lag or rubberbanding so once again i have to say this is not server wide issue and not everyone suffers from it.
P.S: FYI i dont play SWTOR any more nor i visit its forums.
Wow. You must be pretty full of yourself if you think I was talking about you matey... and I just love how your holding onto that little chestnut of yours despite the fact these issues have been acknowledged as server wide by the people who run the server.... but maybe they are mistaken.
Anyway since you are here, would you like to come with us experience this lag? My @handle is the same as my forum name so please send me a tell or an in-game mail. You have repeatedly asked for proof, so please let us show you. Or are you just going to ninja in on every lag thread and troll?
oh btw ran one of the newer STF's last night,3 of the command ships,one Phantom and one Pathfinder with all the traits you mentioned...and none of us had lag or rubberbanding so once again i have to say this is not server wide issue and not everyone suffers from it.
On one hand I have personal experience lagging, a few dozen posts confirming this as a widespread problem, and several videos documenting this issue.
And on the other hand I have a player, who is clearly regarded as a troll, making an unsupported claim.
Please, provide a video of an advanced STF free of lag using the aforementioned ships and powers. Until then, I am forced to dismiss your claim.
[Grabs popcorn, waits for thread to be derailed by "it's the evil DPSer's fault" and other similar nonsense]
At this point, assuming you are telling the truth, I have to question your ability as a player because I have seen this strange lag even in normals. My theory: You are actually lagging, but you play in such slow motion mode (self imposed) that you can't keep up with your own lag enough to notice it. I'm sorry to say.
I'm not defending the guy, but I can tell you from experience that it's still possible to play STF's without lag which is what makes this thing so confusing.
The other day, I joined a Federation Fleet Defense and the lag was absolutely unreal. It was the first time I have experienced it and it was absolutely game breaking. I left the match, and immediately joined a new one and was totally and completely lag free. I don't remember the breakdown of who was in what ship because I didn't realize at the time that it was relevant.
Again, I'm not claiming it's not an issue, it absolutely is an issue. The videos are undeniable and it's clearly an issue that can effect any player at any time. It is however, not guranteed to happen every time. Outside of that one instance, I have never experienced it and I fly a variety of ships including Command Ships.
Again, it's a real issue and needs to be fixed. But when people say they don't have this problem, they're not necessarily lying.
As I posted in another thread, can any of you guys test/measure how much bandwidth the game uses? With Command Ships/Traits pinging other players, I have a feeling that if one player has less than optimal connection, it'll lag everyone else because the server is waiting for a response from that player to compute all the Command stuff.
Why do I think this?
I live in a country where 1Mb/s is considered fast. In reality, I only get 100kb/s or so (based on the download speeds indicated by the game when I download new game resources). Sometimes, I dip lower than that, and I start to lag. I noticed that when I lag, everyone else around me seems to lag too. When my connection is fine and my lag is minimal, everyone else around me seems to be fine too.
Now it could be coincidence, or it may be that I and everyone else is lagging in a particular instance because of the server. But I have a measuring stick.
I start lagging whenever my brother in law is around (I think he torrents in one of his mobile devices). In fact, I know he has arrived home even if I didn't see him come in just because my game suddenly crawls to a standstill and I get SNRs. When that happens, everyone else in my team starts lagging too (especially when there is a command ship around.
Normally a single player's ping/bandwidth shouldn't affect everyone else. But because the command stuff seems to link everyone together, one player's issue might be affecting everyone else.
Now you may have a good connection with ping less than 50ms, but if computing inspiration needs to ping everyone, and everyone has 50ms, could a team of 5 may drop to about 200-250ms because the server is waiting for replies from each player?
And meet you ingame? Yeah right like that is going to happen,open myself to harrassment and grief on top of the fact that i just had brunch and i want to keep it in...you know ive read your posts in the forums and the simple thought of interacting with you ingame on a personal level makes me sick to my stomach...no offense :rolleyes:
Perhaps you don't want to see, that you are affected by the lag as well?
oh btw ran one of the newer STF's last night,3 of the command ships,one Phantom and one Pathfinder with all the traits you mentioned...and none of us had lag or rubberbanding so once again i have to say this is not server wide issue and not everyone suffers from it.
On your 90 minute Undine Assault Normal run, did you guys engage bridge officer abilities at some point during it by any chance?
No offence, but Im under the impression a lot of people seem to do something wrong which you clearly got right. Just in case you turn down the offer to go in with the DPS crowds Id like to offer a low DPS alternative. Take me on one of you folks runs on next ISA. My builds vary a bit between 10-30k DPS but I might also be able to get the lag part right for you. I have puged this map so very often with complaints about lag from players I dont even know that Im pretty sure of that. We just have to check it out.
Trust me im the sort of person who speaks its mind,havent you read my posts regarding the lack of T6 escort type ships from the C-Store and the way Cryptic is trying to pigeonhole the playerbase into playing the FOTM (Cruisers+FAW)?¿
Dont you think that if i had lag or rubberbanding i wouldnt be here with you guys complaining about it and asking for a fix?
Truth be told yes i would,same with the Escort debacle but why would i complain about something that doesnt affect me or alot of my fleet members or ingame friends.
And again back to the basics,im not saying that there isnt an issue just stating that not everyone is suffering from it like some of you want us to believe.
How about stop playing for three to four weeks instead of patiently feeding the metrics every day? That's the only way something you do has any significance.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
How about stop playing for three to four weeks instead of patiently feeding the metrics every day? That's the only way something you do has any significance.
Could you imagine if every member of the DPS Channels didn't log in for a week? They'd fix everything, reverse course on several reward nerfs, and release some stupidly OP ship. I can think of a couple players that singlehandedly pay for a couple dev's salaries.
The lag really is unbearable! My internet speed isn't the best, but when I play any other game besides this one, I don't lag. What's worse: I think I lag more now after April 30th's patch, which stated they resolved lag for some players! I know players keep making the argument that in order for Cryptic to make a profit, they have to continiously make new ships. But what's the point if all you do in your shiny new toy is lag to death!? Cryptic, we have more than enough ships in this grind fest that you call a game! How about working on the problems it has instead of just creating distractions!?
Think its the same thing here,certain specific circunstances must happen for you to be affected with lag and rubberbanding.
To be honest i cant say which because i have tried doing some runs using the traits you guys mentioned,using command ships and trying to replicate the situation and zip,nada de nada no lag or rubberbanding,so it might have to do with my geographical location,net provider or maybe Cryptic loves me,who knows...
Id love to do a lag free ISA with you, would be my first in weeks. As it would seem my main part of current lag issues seems to be correlated with power interaction of me and my team which surface on discrete space maps the most. I ran a dozen ground stf without issues yesterday, first isa . stock motion. I can be online in 4-5 hours.
Lets pug ISA then if u like. I would be very surprised if cryptics love for you is enough when Im in your team.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Hmm...if the command ships are causing lag for others, I'll have to move back to my fleet mogh - I'll miss my scorpions, but I'd rather have a lag free game than more dps (or maybe the kobali ship...as command powers are too good to drop)
Hmm...if the command ships are causing lag for others, I'll have to move back to my fleet mogh - I'll miss my scorpions, but I'd rather have a lag free game than more dps (or maybe the kobali ship...as command powers are too good to drop)
Except no one has anything but speculation to show that Command ships are the cause, or even part of the cause.
From what I can tell, it's nothing but guess. I don't want to cause server lag either, but I'm not going to stop using a ship I paid for because someone things maybe it causes lag.
Comments
In all likelihood... the Piloting ships will be fine.
The Command ships have the Inspiration mechanic that generates based on team activities... which is likely the root of the problem. If you group with Command ships, a little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" appears for each ship on the team, which then sends information back to the Command ship for every ability you use in order for the Command ship to accrue Inspiration. When enough Inspiration builds, the Command ships can then pass additional buffs out to the team by activating their Inspiration abilities. All this creates constant communication between the Command ship(s) and every other teammate... which is compounded as more Command ships are added to the team...
That's just my take on what could be causing the lag, though. Maybe it doesn't really work that way, but that's how the Inspiration mechanic was described, which could naturally lead to increases in lag due the all that communication between teammates (back and forth, at varying network speeds). Piloting, though doesn't do any of that cross-communication (again, merely based on what we've been told in the blogs), so shouldn't cause or suffer from the same issue.
Unless teamed with one of those Command ships. That people did, in fact, pay for...
Wait, what? Awwww TRIBBLE...
Half the time my weapons wouldn't fire, and when they did, it was a slideshow.
Kinda... Inspiration is generated by activating abilities, both by yourself and by your teammates. Basically every single activation your whole team does is adding a calculation for Inspiration.
Activating a Inspiration buff is different though, it affects Allies, not team mates...
Allies include, yourself, team mates, all pets (hangar, device, console), weapon turrets/platforms, targetable torpedoes, even Eject Warp Plasma gas...
The Inspiration buff themselves work like a PBAOE, they only affect the closest 5 allies to you. So if you have 6 pets out, and they are closer to you than your team mates, then most of the pets will get the buff while you team mates will get a nice lag spike.
Yup, that's kind of how I interpreted Inspiration generation as working, via that little "Generating Inspiration" "buff" that appears whenever a Command Ship is on your team (though I probably didn't word it properly)... for each Command Ship on the team...
As to the Inspiration buffs... EWP? Really? That's not very Inspiring...
Here you go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffu5s2TSDbY
Yea I think that really is the best they ever pulled, and one thing you can only find in Star Trek Online. Your level of enthusiasm towards the game (time, money, effort) directly results in the level of bad game performance you get.
I mean wow, developers of other games should really have a fun time seeing this one.
And here Cryptic is tending to the next XP nerf in the doff system.
Im as close to speechless as it can get.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Scimitar
Obelisk
B'rel
Eclipse
Mat'ha
...and right from the start, hitting any ability put all abilities on the 5s spin CD - weapons won't fire - etc, etc, etc.
It's kind of trippy, stepping back a moment from the frustration, and thinking about it. It's almost like the little buffering thing from trying to watch a video over a bad connection where you get the little animation like a clock doohickey - everything on the bar spinning like...you will not hit any abilities nor do anything for 5s, please try again later.
could be worse, could be like trying to view a 100kb GIF at 2400 Baud.
Yea but he could just be on plasmavocation or nugging SWTOR forums. Let's better save that bottle of Champaign for the time being.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm not saying I deny it, the timing seems to line up, but do we know exactly what it is? Is it the Inspiration mechanic, a ship trait, what?
The reason I ask is because I fly a Presidio on my Main. I use All hands on Deck, as well as several other C-Store ship traits and I have not experienced this problem to this degree. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not here saying 'it doesn't happen to me so it's not happening,' obviously there is a problem. I have had some slight lag from time to time, but I have never ever seen anything like the horror in that video.
I would really like to know how it was determined that it's Command Ships causing the problem. If that's the case, then maybe I'll switch ships for a while until they can get this fixed. I haven't seen this myself, but for all I know I'm causing it for others. Not a good thought.
You had to go and jinx us didn't you? Lol
Wow. You must be pretty full of yourself if you think I was talking about you matey... and I just love how your holding onto that little chestnut of yours despite the fact these issues have been acknowledged as server wide by the people who run the server.... but maybe they are mistaken.
Anyway since you are here, would you like to come with us experience this lag? My @handle is the same as my forum name so please send me a tell or an in-game mail. You have repeatedly asked for proof, so please let us show you. Or are you just going to ninja in on every lag thread and troll?
It wasn't a jinx... I just do a lot of fishing and know how to bait a hook and cast a line
On one hand I have personal experience lagging, a few dozen posts confirming this as a widespread problem, and several videos documenting this issue.
And on the other hand I have a player, who is clearly regarded as a troll, making an unsupported claim.
Please, provide a video of an advanced STF free of lag using the aforementioned ships and powers. Until then, I am forced to dismiss your claim.
[Grabs popcorn, waits for thread to be derailed by "it's the evil DPSer's fault" and other similar nonsense]
I'm not defending the guy, but I can tell you from experience that it's still possible to play STF's without lag which is what makes this thing so confusing.
The other day, I joined a Federation Fleet Defense and the lag was absolutely unreal. It was the first time I have experienced it and it was absolutely game breaking. I left the match, and immediately joined a new one and was totally and completely lag free. I don't remember the breakdown of who was in what ship because I didn't realize at the time that it was relevant.
Again, I'm not claiming it's not an issue, it absolutely is an issue. The videos are undeniable and it's clearly an issue that can effect any player at any time. It is however, not guranteed to happen every time. Outside of that one instance, I have never experienced it and I fly a variety of ships including Command Ships.
Again, it's a real issue and needs to be fixed. But when people say they don't have this problem, they're not necessarily lying.
Why do I think this?
I live in a country where 1Mb/s is considered fast. In reality, I only get 100kb/s or so (based on the download speeds indicated by the game when I download new game resources). Sometimes, I dip lower than that, and I start to lag. I noticed that when I lag, everyone else around me seems to lag too. When my connection is fine and my lag is minimal, everyone else around me seems to be fine too.
Now it could be coincidence, or it may be that I and everyone else is lagging in a particular instance because of the server. But I have a measuring stick.
I start lagging whenever my brother in law is around (I think he torrents in one of his mobile devices). In fact, I know he has arrived home even if I didn't see him come in just because my game suddenly crawls to a standstill and I get SNRs. When that happens, everyone else in my team starts lagging too (especially when there is a command ship around.
Normally a single player's ping/bandwidth shouldn't affect everyone else. But because the command stuff seems to link everyone together, one player's issue might be affecting everyone else.
Now you may have a good connection with ping less than 50ms, but if computing inspiration needs to ping everyone, and everyone has 50ms, could a team of 5 may drop to about 200-250ms because the server is waiting for replies from each player?
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Great response :-)
Perhaps you don't want to see, that you are affected by the lag as well?
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
On your 90 minute Undine Assault Normal run, did you guys engage bridge officer abilities at some point during it by any chance?
No offence, but Im under the impression a lot of people seem to do something wrong which you clearly got right. Just in case you turn down the offer to go in with the DPS crowds Id like to offer a low DPS alternative. Take me on one of you folks runs on next ISA. My builds vary a bit between 10-30k DPS but I might also be able to get the lag part right for you. I have puged this map so very often with complaints about lag from players I dont even know that Im pretty sure of that. We just have to check it out.
P.S.S: *criiiies* There was no need to say that!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Then, come on and fly with us - and see the lag.
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
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Could you imagine if every member of the DPS Channels didn't log in for a week? They'd fix everything, reverse course on several reward nerfs, and release some stupidly OP ship. I can think of a couple players that singlehandedly pay for a couple dev's salaries.
Id love to do a lag free ISA with you, would be my first in weeks. As it would seem my main part of current lag issues seems to be correlated with power interaction of me and my team which surface on discrete space maps the most. I ran a dozen ground stf without issues yesterday, first isa . stock motion. I can be online in 4-5 hours.
Lets pug ISA then if u like. I would be very surprised if cryptics love for you is enough when Im in your team.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
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Having said that, there was still a bit of lag
Except no one has anything but speculation to show that Command ships are the cause, or even part of the cause.
From what I can tell, it's nothing but guess. I don't want to cause server lag either, but I'm not going to stop using a ship I paid for because someone things maybe it causes lag.