As far as entitlement and this game goes, in my view, we are all entitled to play the game and have fun. If you are not having fun then either there is a design flaw in the game, or the game is not for you. Seeing as at one time I did have fun in most of the content, and now I have fun in smaller sections of the content, I have the chopice of either pointing out these defiencies and try to find solutions for the devs to consider, point out the defiencies and let them change the game, not say anything and suffer, say something and quit or say nothing and quit.
I am trying to say something and try to suggest solutions. Which I think is the most responsible and productive thing to do. Don't you think so too?
Fun is a very subjective term.
Everybody can enjoy the game even without the rewards. Excepts others want more than want they deserve.
VD simplified the situation and less blunt about it. I am more blunt about it. Based on the rationality of complaints in this thread, We already have identified what kind of playerbase wants more than they deserve:
1) those who refuse to improve themselves and insist on completing PuG advance
2) those who refuse to improve team and refuse #1
3) those who refuse to go down to normal/solo and refuse #1,#2,#3
4) those who refuse #1,#2,#3 but demand to be in advance
5) those demanding rewards but refuse #1,2,3,4
6) those who refuse to buy rewards in exchange and also refuse #1,2,3,4,5
That is a very specific playerbase which is self inflicted and self created. Everyone can get all rewards and everyone can enjoy but those who their own actions are the reason why they are not enjoying. Had they acted and resolve by doing either one of the 6 numbers I mentiond, all problems will be solved.
So they end up in the forums demanding that they game adjust this very specific playerbase who refuse to act upon their self inflicted issues while the rest of the playerbase dont have to be demanding like they do ad adjust whatever gives them. In short, Cryptic is giving this very specific playerbase who have self inflicted problems favoritism, which we already pointed and proven isnt the majority of the playerbase.
That is self entitlement and spoiled. Sorry but I cannot avoid those words because that what all these players rationalities are. And I dont have to create my own dictionary for you guys like some players in ths thread, it is a simple fact that you guys are in denial off.
Overlooked something.
Jerry and Tom put some effort into thier money gathering. Tom put in WAY LESS than Jerry.
Both took the money they aquired and bought stuff. Jerry got more money than Tom in the same amount of time so got the 40inch 4k 3D TV. Tom bought the 24 in no-frills model. Both now have the tv, Jerry has the better one.
Both got a TV, one was entitled to a better TV.
(One wasn't entitled to the money in the first place, but that part of the analogy doesn't have a correlation in this particular discussion or within the game.)
Except Tom's looking for the same TV...so nothing was overlooked.
All I am saying, is that if you do the content, you get rewards. All levels of content should reward the same stuff. The hard the content the proportionally better reward you get. Whether you get more of the same stuff or upgraded gear, it should be same type of stuff. Not exclusive to a specific teir. At least not stuff that is required to do other stuff not directly tied to that content, like crafting.
It's very common for different tiers of content to reward different tiers of rewards.
You want the Legendary Mighty Axe of Demonstomping? You can't get that from hitting up the easy part of the dungeon...you have to hit up the hard part.
It comes down to two kinds of players...
I want this...what do I need to do to be able to get that.
I want this...why do I need to do that to be able to get that?
Somebody wants the Very Rare mats...they should have to do something more to get to them. Otherwise...they're not Very Rare mats are they? They're Common mats.
As far as entitlement and this game goes, in my view, we are all entitled to play the game and have fun. If you are not having fun then either there is a design flaw in the game, or the game is not for you. Seeing as at one time I did have fun in most of the content, and now I have fun in smaller sections of the content, I have the chopice of either pointing out these defiencies and try to find solutions for the devs to consider, point out the defiencies and let them change the game, not say anything and suffer, say something and quit or say nothing and quit.
That goes back to what came up earlier...
"People need to accept..."
...but the person requesting that things be changed to suit them is not accepting anything and is instead asking that all others accept what they want.
paxdawn's showing entitlement by suggesting that those that have put in some form of effort to do more difficult content should be rewarded for doing so...
I never said that effort should not be rewarded. Strawman argument.
i like exposing fallacies and hidden propaganda/agenda from other players.
Except the only fallacy is your own.
There is no hidden agenda in my ideas. It actually is pro-returning elite and advanced back to the difficultly they were.
The only fraud is yourself, resorting to strawmen, and ad hominem (fallacies) rather than what I or others have said.
The fraud is yours in that clearly it isn't really about the challenge, and only the reward for you.
The fraud is that you can't understand I'm against the change to the difficulty change also. I'm against the removal of the autofail. It isn't solving the problem . The people complaining about the autofail wouldn't queue up for advanced and elite those and TRIBBLE up the runs for the rest of us if they didn't feel they needed to, to progress.
You don't want noobs and under geared people queuing for Advanced and Elite, then don't give them a reason to. Given them a reason to want to stick to normal mode.
This sense of self-entitlement must have happened to the player base some time bettween the introdcution of New Romulus and the beginning of April of this year. Because I started playing back in late 2011 early 2012, played through to the introduction of New Romulus and the reputation system. Well no, I can understand where it started now. That was before the introduction of New Romulus when they had introduced Fleets and Fleet Starbases and the introduction of Fleet Ships. This is back when the end of the story arcs were the Breen. The STF ques were full of people farming marks and to get that much needed dilithium. Yes we actually had to work for dilithium back then. We only had mining, doffing, and STFs to give us Dil, especially for those much needed projects, for the, Fleet Starbases. Then New Romulus came, people could now just go over here and farm their dilithium off the dailies. Plus at the time it was the only way to get the Romulan marks for the new Reputation System that came with it. This made life easier on the player base, MUCH EASIER. Then from here my time to be able to play get sucked up but the Army til I could get back at the beginning of April. Oh lets I forget, there was Defara and Nukara, the latter being added in, in tha ttime too. This two places where the only two places out side of the STF, besiides mining and doffing, one could farm dil and the VR specific item needed for the gear out side of elites.
Now with these three areas in place, diliithium farming became easy. Which in turn made life easier for the player. But at the same time it had the reverse affect of ques starting to empty out. But Cryptic did take notice on how much happier the players were with being able to farm that much needed dilithium. Then at some point in all this, Cryptic decides to make life even easier on the player, by adding dilithium rewards to quests. I can't remember if the quests back then awared dilithium or not, but even if they did, it wasn't enough to amount to much of anything. Now with all this already in place, Starbases coming to completion, players start to build their dil up again, but start complaning that there is nothing to do, this is deadly to a playerbase, a game with nothing to do. Repeat episodes, do STFs, and farm teh dailies. At this point I would gues is when Legacy of Romulus hit and off and running people went. See the pattern here? Cryptic gives things that make the players life easier, but in return also give new things to make them use their zen and/or dil to get what they want.
You want to see this sense of self-entitlement and spoiled attitude disappear from the player base. Remove the dilithium reward form everything but Episodes, Battlezones, Doffing, and STFs. Granted there will be a lot of crying on the forums over because now people actually have to go do something for dilithium now.
Now back on track with the thread here.
Ok so it not all the STFs that have had the Optional autofail removed. Just did a Khitomer in Stasis Adv. Failed the optional(which leaves me wondering how you even fail this one) but we did. IT awareded 10 marks for the failure(yeah this needs to go). But so far it only seems that the Optional autofail has been removed from the Iconian STFs, because "They're to hard." Haven't had a chance to test any of the others, oh wait, Adv Defend Rh'ihho Station also failed on saving the workers. Nukara we can't count in here, because they're still the only ones death is a failure, haven't failed the optional on these so can't say. As for the others haven't had a chance to test them out yet to see.
Current Dilithium:Zen Exchange Rate: 247 Dilithium:1 Zen
Master Key Price: 125 Zen
- 10 Pack: 1,125 Zen (save 125 Zen)
Required Dilithium Per Key: 30,875
- 10 Pack: 277,875
Current Master Key Price On Exchange: 2,300,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,300,000 EC
Current Very Rare Material Prices On Exchange
Argonite Gas: 100,000 EC
- per Unit: 100,000 EC
Craylon Gas: 37,999 EC
- per Unit: 7,955 EC (87,500 EC for 11; 417,989 EC if bought individually*)
Dentarium: 10,000 EC
- per Unit: 7,500 EC (150,000 EC for 20; 200,000 EC if bought individually*)
Plekton: 167,750 EC
- per Unit: 135,000 EC (10,530,000 EC for 78; 13,084,500 EC if bought individually*)
Radiogenic Particle: 99,500 EC
- per Unit: 99,500 EC
Trellium-K: 23,000 EC
- per Unit: 9,167 EC (27,500 EC for 3; 69,000 EC if bought individually*)
*would require sufficient supply at that price, otherwise figure it to be higher.
Given the ease of which can find oneself tripping over Dilithium from various sources and the ease of hitting the 8,000 cap on a single character and players have four free slots...
...it would be far faster/efficient/likely enjoyable to farm the Dil playing various content, convert the Dil to Zen, buy a Master Key, sell said Master Key for EC, and use the EC to buy the desired VR Mats...than it would be to risk running the content that may or may not reward the VR Mats.
And well, that's not the only route one can go.
Every 96 hours, for 1,000 Dil, one can do the Requisition R&D Assistance DOFF assignment...though the rewards will be random, it wasn't that too bad previously before the prices on everything completely tanked because of the massive surplus compared to demand. It's still an option - how good an option would be subjective.
Research and Development Pack: 300 Zen
- 4 Pack: 1000 Zen (save 200 Zen)
Also on the Exchange...
Research & Development Mini-Pack: 995,000 EC
- per Unit: 995,000 EC
Research & Development Pack: 2,000,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,000,000 EC
Yes, one can buy a Master Key for 125 Zen and sell it for more EC than the R&D Pack which costs 300 Zen sells for; there are various things like that.
There is currently a sale going on.
Fleet Ship Module: 400 Zen (normally 500)
On the Exchange?
Fleet Ship Module: 10,500,000 EC
- per Unit: 10,500,000 EC
Ship Upgrade Token: 560 Zen (normally 700, and yes, I just bought a damn one a couple of days ago - bastiches! Heh.)
- 4 Pack: 1,600 Zen (normally 2,000 Zen)
On the Exchange?
Starship Upgrade Requisition: 8,900,000 EC
- per Unit: 8,900,000 EC
So let's do a quick review.
1125 Zen for a 10 Pack of Master Keys to 23,000,000 EC: 20,444.4 EC per Zen.
125 Zen for a single Master Key to 2,300,000 EC: 18,400 EC per Zen.
1,000 Zen for a 4 Pack of Research and Development Packs to 8,000,000 EC: 8,000 EC per Zen.
300 Zen for a Research and Development Pack to 2,000,000 EC: 6666.7 EC per Zen.
400 Zen for a Fleet Ship Module to 10,500,000 EC: 26,250 EC per Zen.
1,600 Zen for a 4 Pack of Ship Upgrade Tokens to 35,600,000 EC: 22,250 EC per Zen.
560 Zen for a Ship Upgrade Token to 8,900,000 EC: 15,892.8 EC per Zen.
Have to account for movement...how quickly the product is selling, cause something might have a better ratio but not move that frequently - so it might be worthwhile to go with another ratio for a quicker return.
But one could basically buy Keys, sell them, buy R&D Packs, split the difference buying various mats, and take it from there...or...going back to the prices of the mats, just buy them.
This is not taking into account any EC revenue that would come about from the sale of any crafted items as well. People buy all sorts of thing, so one can recoup some of the loss on what might otherwise be considered vendortrash - keeping in mind the sheer amount of market saturation that may exist because of an overwhelming supply versus a limited demand.
There are a variety of things one can do...where one sells what they've got in order to buy what they want - allowing one not to have to suffer through content they may not enjoy but feel forced to run because of wanting something from it.
Because those items...simply aren't exclusive to that content.
There is no hidden agenda in my ideas. It actually is pro-returning elite and advanced back to the difficultly they were.
The only fraud is yourself, resorting to strawmen, and ad hominem (fallacies) rather than what I or others have said.
The fraud is yours in that clearly it isn't really about the challenge, and only the reward for you.
The fraud is that you can't understand I'm against the change to the difficulty change also. I'm against the removal of the autofail. It isn't solving the problem . The people complaining about the autofail wouldn't queue up for advanced and elite those and TRIBBLE up the runs for the rest of us if they didn't feel they needed to, to progress.
You don't want noobs and under geared people queuing for Advanced and Elite, then don't give them a reason to. Given them a reason to want to stick to normal mode.
This aint a fallacy.
I merely stated facts. I can simplify it if you want so that your level of intelligence can understand it:
The issue of the thread is normal skilled difficulty players, not all but the specific of, who think they deserve to have advance rewards but refuse to increase their effort into the current advance difficulty level.
So, to solve this, rather than increasing their effort, those who complain in thread about this want normal skill difficult level effort to get advance rewards even without doing advance difficulty effort by nerfing advance to normal difficulty level objectives.
Just reporting in to complement Cryptic on yesterdays changes to the map Brotherhood of the Sword.
Aside from a handful of powerdilruns with my hardcore gang on other elite PvEs I only paid attention to that map on my short gaming session yesterday after the patch.
First time I decided to pug advanced by myself. As expected the team ways a mess, with a lot of players probably not belonging there, but seeing where this mission is going I took my healing toon. I saved the fire team, healed and rescued the Orion (dont know what happened to the targs but wasnt me) and on more than one occasion I had to activate centre as well as one secondary leaving 33% of the stage for the other players to handle which they got right eventually.
Second time I went in with my fleet. No out of this world DPS or anything but surely good and reliable players. Took my partially MK12 undergeared delta engineer this time knowing we had a good healer in the group. Enemies beat harder but thanks to the teamwork and assigned roles the mission goal was fairly accomplishable so we grabbed the elite reward cryptic repaired there a few minutes later.
I can't tell you how happy I am toward the change. In any constellation I got a feeling of having to play for my rewards and probably even risk when I choose elite. Either when Im alone or in a group fun play was ensured on the map I wanted to do without the need to face that annoyingly easy normal mode. Since this isnt one of the harder maps around I think in the long run I have to ensure fun for myself there by continuously pugging elite with 1 or 2 friends tending towards the criticals.
So queue up peeps! I couldnt care less how good or bad you are because you all contribute to my gaming experience just the way I want it.
And thank you cryptic for restoring that balance to the game, keep at it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Current Dilithium:Zen Exchange Rate: 247 Dilithium:1 Zen
Master Key Price: 125 Zen
- 10 Pack: 1,125 Zen (save 125 Zen)
Required Dilithium Per Key: 30,875
- 10 Pack: 277,875
Current Master Key Price On Exchange: 2,300,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,300,000 EC
Current Very Rare Material Prices On Exchange
Argonite Gas: 100,000 EC
- per Unit: 100,000 EC
Craylon Gas: 37,999 EC
- per Unit: 7,955 EC (87,500 EC for 11; 417,989 EC if bought individually*)
Dentarium: 10,000 EC
- per Unit: 7,500 EC (150,000 EC for 20; 200,000 EC if bought individually*)
Plekton: 167,750 EC
- per Unit: 135,000 EC (10,530,000 EC for 78; 13,084,500 EC if bought individually*)
Radiogenic Particle: 99,500 EC
- per Unit: 99,500 EC
Trellium-K: 23,000 EC
- per Unit: 9,167 EC (27,500 EC for 3; 69,000 EC if bought individually*)
*would require sufficient supply at that price, otherwise figure it to be higher.
Given the ease of which can find oneself tripping over Dilithium from various sources and the ease of hitting the 8,000 cap on a single character and players have four free slots...
...it would be far faster/efficient/likely enjoyable to farm the Dil playing various content, convert the Dil to Zen, buy a Master Key, sell said Master Key for EC, and use the EC to buy the desired VR Mats...than it would be to risk running the content that may or may not reward the VR Mats.
And well, that's not the only route one can go.
Every 96 hours, for 1,000 Dil, one can do the Requisition R&D Assistance DOFF assignment...though the rewards will be random, it wasn't that too bad previously before the prices on everything completely tanked because of the massive surplus compared to demand. It's still an option - how good an option would be subjective.
Research and Development Pack: 300 Zen
- 4 Pack: 1000 Zen (save 200 Zen)
Also on the Exchange...
Research & Development Mini-Pack: 995,000 EC
- per Unit: 995,000 EC
Research & Development Pack: 2,000,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,000,000 EC
Yes, one can buy a Master Key for 125 Zen and sell it for more EC than the R&D Pack which costs 300 Zen sells for; there are various things like that.
There is currently a sale going on.
Fleet Ship Module: 400 Zen (normally 500)
On the Exchange?
Fleet Ship Module: 10,500,000 EC
- per Unit: 10,500,000 EC
Ship Upgrade Token: 560 Zen (normally 700, and yes, I just bought a damn one a couple of days ago - bastiches! Heh.)
- 4 Pack: 1,600 Zen (normally 2,000 Zen)
On the Exchange?
Starship Upgrade Requisition: 8,900,000 EC
- per Unit: 8,900,000 EC
So let's do a quick review.
1125 Zen for a 10 Pack of Master Keys to 23,000,000 EC: 20,444.4 EC per Zen.
125 Zen for a single Master Key to 2,300,000 EC: 18,400 EC per Zen.
1,000 Zen for a 4 Pack of Research and Development Packs to 8,000,000 EC: 8,000 EC per Zen.
300 Zen for a Research and Development Pack to 2,000,000 EC: 6666.7 EC per Zen.
400 Zen for a Fleet Ship Module to 10,500,000 EC: 26,250 EC per Zen.
1,600 Zen for a 4 Pack of Ship Upgrade Tokens to 35,600,000 EC: 22,250 EC per Zen.
560 Zen for a Ship Upgrade Token to 8,900,000 EC: 15,892.8 EC per Zen.
Have to account for movement...how quickly the product is selling, cause something might have a better ratio but not move that frequently - so it might be worthwhile to go with another ratio for a quicker return.
But one could basically buy Keys, sell them, buy R&D Packs, split the difference buying various mats, and take it from there...or...going back to the prices of the mats, just buy them.
This is not taking into account any EC revenue that would come about from the sale of any crafted items as well. People buy all sorts of thing, so one can recoup some of the loss on what might otherwise be considered vendortrash - keeping in mind the sheer amount of market saturation that may exist because of an overwhelming supply versus a limited demand.
There are a variety of things one can do...where one sells what they've got in order to buy what they want - allowing one not to have to suffer through content they may not enjoy but feel forced to run because of wanting something from it.
Because those items...simply aren't exclusive to that content.
Good lord, why in the hell are these so high in value, they are simple to obtain?
With the changes to Azure, plekton is now the hardest to obtain - still not too bad. Radiogenic has maintained value all along due simply to the highest demand for weapons and tac consoles, despite being indeed easy to obtain. I thought that plekton was going to be from one of the Herald space missions but they seem to have changed it to radiogenic?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm sitting here trying to remember if I've ever run a BHN. I'm not a big Ground person, lol, prior to running a BHE I'd only done one Ground queue since the F2P conversion (and that was by accident, one of those sector changes going to click one thing but the planet's dialog popped up in front of it). And well, that BHE was back before they fixed the mobs - so it was brutally easy, three of us (it was a fun run from some bored PvPers) got carried by a Tac and a Sci through it - went and grabbed gear, traits, and so forth to hit it up some more...yadda, yadda, yadda...rambling - but I don't think I've ever done a BHN. Are there Alarm Bugs there too? Cause that would get into one of those things of running Normal and learning what's to be expected in Advanced and Elite...things to look out for, etc, etc, etc.
There are alarm bugs on all difficulties, however spotting them remains the issue. If you don't know what to look for, you'll probably never find it. The first bug is obvious. The second comes in with the first wave so you have to look for him. The third one comes in a wave or two after the initial wave so you are already knee deep in bugs and chaos and suddenly have to find this one bug that looks so very slightly different from the others.
I think I said it earlier in this thread, I had done BHA many times without having a clue what the alarm bugs were, and this would not be any better on normal. Why? Someone else is killing them for me. I didn't know what to look for, and by the time I might find it on my own, it is already dead. If someone knows what they are, if they spot them, they can be killed fairly quickly, so one person doing it for everyone else means the rest don't get to learn what the bug is, what it looks like, or what it does.
I wouldn't say ISA's Mandatory Objective is arbitrary. Highly trollable? Definitely trollable. Thing is, changing that to an Optional Objective will leave it trollable...just like it was with ISE prior to DR and for how many ever hundreds of pages in the Worst STF thread were dedicated to ISE.
But the Objective itself pretty good sense, imho. The Nanites make the repairs, the group's not up to the task, retreat...make a run for it...and that's how it basically plays out. Scrub the mission...try again later.
But it's just so damn trollable and that's annoying as all get out. Hell, just had an ISA fail where somebody zipped over there and popped the first Gen...quick 2 minute something fail. It was obvious that they trolled it. There are a bunch of queues that have things like that...and...those suck.
Making them Optional doesn't make them not trollable...and...imho, actually just adds to the trollfactor of the run. Player A sabotages the rewards and you're stuck there, held hostage for who knows how long, eh? People abandoning the public queues started long before Delta Rising was ever hinted at...meh.
I still wonder if one of the reasons there is no CSE, KSE, and ISE is because they're looking at revamping them...cause they're all easily trollable queues...wouldn't know about the Ground with their missing Elites.
Even gating the queues wouldn't address the trollable nature of some of the Objectives.
Addressing that trollable nature could also help some of the "just didn't know" that can happen as well, where somebody might be hitting up a queue not knowing how things play out and they accidentally trigger that chain reaction that will cause the fail.
Imagine if they provided equally challenging Objectives that weren't subject to "oopsie" or "lawlzee" stuff, eh?
The thing is, many ISE's I've seen salvaged after the nanites heal the transformer. It isn't a big deal. They heal it, you lose the optional reward. Okay. Now you kill them all and do it better this time. Maybe the gravwell misfired, maybe the group didn't seem like it needed it, maybe it needed three and only got one, and maybe someone didn't obey the 10% rule. Whatever went wrong, it was entirely recoverable, and you would learn that on normal too.
So to go and make it mandatory just makes no sense. It is utterly arbitrary to pick that objective and make it mandatory. Keeping it as an optional makes more sense and of course prevents trolls.
On the same note, I can't understand why BHA has alarm bugs as a mandatory optional either. We are noisily slaughtering them by the hundreds and we are supposed to believe they aren't already alerted to our presence? Absurd.
Fail conditions can be fine, if they actually make sense and aren't just tacked on arbitrarily with poor balancing and little thought behind them. ANRA shows, both now and with the previous mandatory, the devs are fairly out of touch with what the optionals/mandatories are actually demanding given the actual nature of the STF.
Good lord, why in the hell are these so high in value, they are simple to obtain?
Because players are your basic Ferengi. Hell I've had stuff I know I could sell for high prices that I've been tossing on the exchange on occassion for cheap prices just to be rid of them.
With the changes to Azure, plekton is now the hardest to obtain - still not too bad. Radiogenic has maintained value all along due simply to the highest demand for weapons and tac consoles, despite being indeed easy to obtain. I thought that plekton was going to be from one of the Herald space missions but they seem to have changed it to radiogenic?
As far as I know on this. On the the Borg Adv and Elite ground stfs give Plekton. Everything else gives Craylon Gas.. Hmm Craylon Gas... is this used in the making of Crayolas? If so, I can get teh delux 64 pack?
Good lord, why in the hell are these so high in value, they are simple to obtain?
Hrmmm, this was from another thread - I'm not going to change the highlighting in it, it was a Craylon vs. Radiogenic sort of thing in that thread - but it lists the things there all the same.
It's funny too, imho, cause CCA...Radiogenic. But yeah, folks need all the Beam STUs for their Beams.
Plekton I don't get, are folks doing the Ground STUs? Cause otherwise, they could grab the Argonite for the Iso Chip and Sig Mod.
Component - Isolinear Chip
Component - Signal Enhancement Module
Superior Tech Upgrade - Ground Weapon Technology
Superior Tech Upgrade (Experimental) - Ground Weapon Technology
Radiogenic Particle
Component - Intermix Chamber
Component - Warp Field Regulator
Superior Tech Upgrade - Beam Technology
Superior Tech Upgrade (Experimental) - Beam Technology
Trellium-K
Component - Particle Alignment Matrix
Superior Tech Upgrade - Engineering Technology
Superior Tech Upgrade (Experimental) - Engineering Technology
* * * * *
Emitter Array
Mk XI Deflector
Mk XI Science Console
Mk XI Secondary Deflector
Mk XI Personal Shield
Mk XI Space Shield
Emitter Array & Signal Enhancement Module
Aegis Covariant Shield Array
Aegis Deflector Array
Exotic Particle Field Exciter (Science Console)
Mk XII Deflector
Mk XII Science Console
Mk XII Secondary Deflector
Mk XII Personal Shield
Mk XII Space Shield
Isolinear Circuitry
Mk XI Energy Tactical Console
Mk XI Beam Array/Dual Beam Bank
Mk XI Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons/Single Cannons/Turrets
Mk XI Blast Assault/Compression Pistol/Dual Pistol/Full Auto Rifle/High Density Rifle/Minigun Assault/Pulsewave Assault/Sniper Rifle/Split Beam Rifle/Stun Pistol/Wide Beam Pistol
Isolinear Circuitry & Isolinear Chip
Omni-Directional Beam Array
Wide Arc Dual Heavy Cannons
Mk XII Energy Tactical Console
Mk XII Beam Array/Dual Beam Bank
Mk XII Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons/Single Cannons/Turrets
Isolinear Circuitry & Particle Alignment Matrix
TR-116B Sniper Rifle
Mk XII Blast Assault/Compression Pistol/Dual Pistol/Full Auto Rifle/High Density Rifle/Minigun Assault/Pulsewave Assault/Sniper Rifle/Split Beam Rifle/Stun Pistol/Wide Beam Pistol
Warp Field Regulator
Mk XI Engineering Console
Mk XI Warp/Singularity Cores
Mk XI Mine/Torpedo Launcher
Mk XI Projectile Tactical Console
Warp Field Regulator & Intermix Chamber
Aegis Hyper-Impulse Engines
Conductive RCS Accelerator (Engineering Console)
Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo Launcher
Mk XII Engineering Console
Mk XII Warp/Singularity Cores
Mk XII Mine/Torpedo Launcher
Mk XII Projectile Tactical Console
The thing is, many ISE's I've seen salvaged after the nanites heal the transformer. It isn't a big deal. They heal it, you lose the optional reward. Okay. Now you kill them all and do it better this time. Maybe the gravwell misfired, maybe the group didn't seem like it needed it, maybe it needed three and only got one, and maybe someone didn't obey the 10% rule. Whatever went wrong, it was entirely recoverable, and you would learn that on normal too.
So to go and make it mandatory just makes no sense. It is utterly arbitrary to pick that objective and make it mandatory. Keeping it as an optional makes more sense and of course prevents trolls.
Mine was Space Elite with pugs. A couple cruisers moved directly to the Kang, so I headed to the first Cube. With the first drone destroyed I'd noticed noone else was with me: all four, both cruisers, an escort and a sci were with the Kang. I asked to someone come to help me with the cubes, as "there is no need to have four guys stopping the bops", and just got a "ROFL" as reply.
*All right, this will be long*
I continued destroying the drones from the first cube and started to fight with the Neg'var and Raptor, when suddenly the OPTIONAL FAILED screen poped up. The Kang was at 65% and going down fast, with several Bops (all but the ones from my cube, as I killed them as they were spawning) ripping him and my teammates appart. One was dead, and two more had suffered heavy damage.
Optional failed after just 3-4 minutes into the mission! :eek: With 4 guys covering the Kang! By the first Bop wave! :eek:
Obviously I had to help them to clear the bops... and not just once but three or four times while I was keep clearing drones and cubes, and then raptors and neg'vars waves. They didn't moved from the Kang but to come back there after die.
At least I was using my tactical on escort and not my main (eng) on cruiser, or could have been much more painful
Part of the problem is that some "pros" are so quick to throw around insults, and then wonder why their hails go ignored.
I was in Infected Space Elite last night. I know about the 10% rule. Switched target to move to the next generator... let loose everything...
And the target hadn't switched. Boom. "Go back to normal, Rick! ******!!!!" etc etc. No slack for a genuine mistake... just a "They're noob!!!! They're noob!!!" assumption. At that point, nothing I could say would restore things - the optional was a bust.
The group still cleared up within 20 mins overall. I do think that if you want to do the optionals reliably, you'd better form a premade. Better for the "pros" blood pressure, right?
Note that it's good to see those helpful few who give advice. It's the ones that just rant and rant that are doing nobody any good - least of all themselves. I always imagine someone frothing at the mouth and gibbering "FUUUUUUUUUUUU!" and rocking backwards and forwards. The thought amuses me a little.
As for me - I did come properly geared, knowing the strategy and with components to heal injuries. Next time I'll be more careful!
well i had lots of those myself, today for example in space elite stf i see at the beginning 2 dreds and 2 escorts, i was so happy it would go fast... nothing more wrong, dreds turned out to be multicolor beams happy boats... and so escorts, my cruiser was doing more dps than all 4 others combined (i parse stfs)... it took 40 minutes with me soloing both cubes... and most of everything else...
If ship is doing less than 2k dps its not a ship, its a fishing boat...
It was not my worst STF but it made STF as disgusting thing I don't play anymore. It was STF elite KASE.
We were 3 feds and 2 klings. When we attacked the cube. A vet asked who take the probes. No one answered. After 1 minute he left. We deal with the cube. I thought I saw all of them go to the transformer. But in fact no. One stay on my side trying to kill the transformer and 2 went the other side to kill the transformer. In my mind I thought we will fail. I ask them their strategy is wrong. No answer. The gate shoot me. After more than 30 minutes we kill the transformers and gates. The scimitar went out. At this moment another one left. We were 3. 2 feds and one klingon. The klingon never answered in the chat. He never fixed his ship. He got more than 10 damages without fixed. And his ship was the same ship I got when I started my klingon rerol.
The last guy said to me I should be better if I want to play STF elite and he left. STF is disgusting
Heh, that's why yesterday when I started my daily STF routine I would post "Good morning " in the chat knowing the team would at times be at risk of cocking up and blaming each other randomly for it.
Surprisingly some with feminine-looking account names would "hi" back and the maps were quite well run despite new players not getting any sense of targeting priority at first. No big deal, just give a gentle reminder where necessary.
What I do also when entering the map is select whichever friendly ship is in front of the group and just fire off a hazard emitter I to them. Whomever gets to firing range of the cube first gets an extend shields III automatically.
This tends to 'wake up' some players who appear to be flying while 'expecting the worst', and I normally have no problems coordinating strategy once the initial 'healing beam lightshow' was deployed.
I do have a routine of checking the team's blind spots once in a while. On Kithomer Space it's to ensure my side of the map has someone covering probes at all times. On Infected it's to do a suicide assault with tractor-repulsors to push away that huge group of nanite spheres in case the team does not 10% the generators properly.
On Cure I've stopped doing that with Elite PUGs because normals actually have proper teamwork 90% of the time now from my experience. Can't say the same for elites. Being a timing, initiative and DPS sensitive map, Cure Elite more often than not degenerates into eventual failure if one or two teammates do not know how to support the team's objective before their own.
I just literally left my first STF PUG match for the following reason
It was a CSE, I didn't notice all the ships, I was quickly flying off killing BoP's
After a minute or 2 in the match, a guy in chat actually announces to everyone he knows he's in a shuttle but he bet he does more damage than most cruisers do... someone laughed at him, and then the shuttle guy goes or I'll die trying
I just left right after after telling him thanks for wasting all our time with that.
There is no way I would stand for that kinda TRIBBLE. The ships in CSE hit hard enough with my full on ship equipped proper, I don't wanna even think about a shuttlecraft...
This person was obviously an attention seeking troll... he drew attention to the fact he was in a shuttle, no one called him out on it till he said it first
I had an interesting time last night in an Infected Space (Elite) Run. Polished off the first three defenders with little issue. then we all made for the eft group as per usual, with reassurances all around we'd hold to the 10% rule. After knocking out the left side cube, we set to work on the Generators. Needless to say, we weren't as coordinated as we would have liked and faile dthe optional since one person blew his generator early., we clean up the first set of probs and take out the left side main generator. at this point we start to work on the second set of left side spheres. I notice that the same guy who had blown his generator early was now on teh right hand side working on the cube there. leaving four of us to clean u teh left side spheres. So needless to say that took longer than expected. After clearing the left side, we started work on teh right, where that same Oddy was still working on the right side Cube. At this point this guy who can't take down a Non-Tac Cube by himself, starts talking about the low DPS coming out of us, when he's barely getting 500 dps with his Oddy, and my MVAM is doing nearly 2000 dps. We manage to drop the right side relatively painlessly, but while clearing up the right side sphere's same guy keeps on about our low DPS, while he's not even firing. I mention this to him, and he actually said, he needed to get out of the battle to type. Where in I mentioned my MVAM had it's nose buired in a sphere in with guns blazing, and I was still typng. After that it just got into his questioning our parentage while he's off the side of teh battle and the rest of us were dying left and right. And of course he's "needing" every drop. He was on my ignore list before the end of the battle.
Joined KIT space elite to find a guy flying around with one phaser shooting off from a Runabout shuttle.
I was wanting the accolade and new then that this was now a waste, as this guy was not going to help in a high DPS STF.
I privately sent him a nice message saying, this is a team event and him showing up in shuttle will not help the team.
That open the door for many spams, he is having fun in a shuttle, what does matter, he has very high level consoles on board.
Later I get an email from the same guy saying I should really larrn how to play the game that he had a holo emitter on an escort.
I was teamed up with several of my fleet buddies and read the letter out loud, we all agreed they don't sell Fed Runabout holo emitters.
One of the guys in the fleet warped over to DS9 because he just had to check, go figure they don't seek them.
Have had two 'iritating' experiences in the past 24 hours:
Now please don't get me wrong - I'm not one for ranting about failing the optional, especially not on normal - I just don't feel that it's really that big a deal. And the mission was completed each time, even if the optional failed.
Anyway - was playing CS normal this morning; it all seemed to be going fine and I did the usual trick of joining a group to attack a specific target, but was keeping my eye on the Kang. Noticed the Borg BOP groups making their way(s) toward the Kang so flew to intercept. Managed to take out two, but the third one managed to get within firing range of the Kang. Managed to take number three down, but not before it had reduced the Kang's shields to 95%. By this time another two groups were heading in my direction. I made a few calls for assistance, but the other team members either didn't have chat screens open or were simply ignoring it.
Now, my ship is an Intrepid Retrofit - MACO sheid, Borg Deflector, Borg engine, Borg console foward and aft mk XI [Borg] antiproton beams and the rest mkXI [Borg] photon torpedo launchers (great, as I can fire off multiple torpedoes in quick succession within a short period of time thanks to their quick cooldown) but it's still a science ship and not big on DPS, though I can hang in a fight for quite a while thanks to the MACO shield and Borg kit.
What it cannot do is handle six BOP's singlehanded. Used every trick in the book, and managed to despatch two of them, but by this time the Kang was at 61% and falling, the optional had (obviously) already failed and I was beginning to doubt that I could deal with the remainer before even more arrived. Thankfully a Dreadnought showed up and destroyed three of the four; but I did feel like saying "what took you so long!"
Second instance was in IS normal - I was dealing with the Probes, and not doing a terrible job of it, but some idiot in a 'Taste the Rainbow' Oddy called "Someone deal with the probes". Advised him that I was doing just that, but would appreciate some support. No reply. Nor did he make any attempt to assist. Thankfully someone in a Star Cruiser arrived to assist but the optional failed anyway, as we didn't manage stop them all. Rainbow Boy then ranted about the probes having been ignored. Didn't bother replying - didn't see much point.
The Death Penalty Timer was designed for one purpose and that was to get players to be little bit more careful with their ships and/or their toons. Well that idea has completely failed. Last night I PUGed a KA Normal STF (I try to help the newer STFers as much as possible) and I was the first one to beam into the underground and walked over to the right a little and waited for the others to beam in.
Well they started beaming in and as soon as one comes they run off to the start line. I typed into team chat "stick together", but the user runs past the timer start line and a few seconds later is dead. The team is all there and I repeat "We need to stick together" and I lead the charge. Come to the first T in the road and like always I go right, well one follows me, two go the other way, and the last one pauses at the T then finally follows me.
I call out in team chat "Where are you going? We need to stick together" and I get no reply. After little while one of the others dies and the other ones health is falling fast I start heading to the other team with two team mates in tow. I easily clear the remaining Borg Patrol and rez the team and think to myself "Ok they have learned we need to stick together.", but no as soon as I rez one of the users and what does he do, runs off to start the fight again without even popping a Hypo.
The rest of the STF run I decided to stay in the back and clean up Borg squads and rez people as we went along. During that entire STF run I did not die once, but I am going to guess the rest of the team was at the max on their Death Penalty Timer.
We finally get to the transmitters room and before we go in I say in team chat:
"Ok we are going to clear the Borg out of this room, before we start taking down the transmitters.",
"Stick together",
"Stay out of the other room I'll take care of that.",
"NO PETS",
"Any Questions".
I get no reply, so I opened fire on the group ahead of us and the rest of the team charges in spawning drones, escorts, and firing on everything. So being an Engineer I back up a little and bunker down, start spawning my pets and picking off Borg as they kill off my team and come at me.
At this point in the mission I am surprised I am not really that mad, it actually kind of funny watching these users welling kill themselves off as I have no problem keeping my shields and health basically full. I finally cleared the aggroed Borg with team mates spawning and dying over and over again. At some point you would think they would have thought sticking together and we won't die, but no that thought never enter any of their minds, oh and at this point I am no longer rezing any of my team it would have been pointless.
I finally clear the remaining Borg out of the room and talk to the team in chat that this side is Beta and the other side is Alpha, the bottom floor is 3 and the top floor is 1. I tell them I will be in another room bringing down the shields around these transmitters and that they all need to target them and nothing else until they take them down as fast possible. I few hiccups along the way dying, respawn, and I had to bring down the shields for them a couple of times at each transmitter.
Finally we get done with this room and not even asking if they have their Borg BOFF I destroy both machines and move on to the bosses room and camp outside waiting for the rest of the team to show up. The team finally gets there and I tell them not to rush the room until the boss is down and open fire, two rush the room and I start backing up team mates start dying left and right again. I came close to death a few times but was able to Hypo my way out of it and was able to clear the group by myself. Now I could have been a @hole, not rez anyone, taken my prize and left, but I couldn't do that to them.
That was the worse STF run I have ever been on and at the same time the funniest one to watch.
Stuff like this was supposed to be fixed with this new Death Penalty Timer, yeah I call fail on that one.
That's just trying for every 25 through 10 posts...like I said, there are thousands of them.
And that thread's not the only thread where folks have posted complaints over the years - there have been countless complaint threads and posts amidst threads which weren't complaint threads but folks had reasons to complain all the same...
Reading through it, one will see a lot of the same complaints - over and over again - over the years - and...even after DR, many of the same old complaints.
What changed with the Mandatory Objectives, though, is there's not the 20-40+ minute hostage situations...there's not eating the leaver penalty for an hour. So instead of sitting in some run for 40 minutes on something that might usually take 10-15 minutes, folks can go do other things - instead of being locked out of everything for an hour, folks can go do other things.
And that's kind of the thing, the retcon folks have done of how awesome everything was before the Mandatory Objectives...yeah, no, that's not quite how it was. It was the same failgasm if not actually worse...and it was a Hell of a lot more punitive than it is now.
agreed, the old pre-DR STFs where filled with AFKers, leechers, and terribads. It was a pretty horrible and toxic place to pug.
Guess what, with the removal of fail objectives, those days will be coming back in force.
Ehh, no. I've been pugging for over 3 years exclusively. There was no problem at all until October last. Unless you define problem as not finishing ISE in under 60 seconds.
I have seen failures in borg ground missions in the olden times. Other than that I can not recall a single problem that stands out in thousands and thousands of runs until October 14 2014.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
agreed, the old pre-DR STFs where filled with AFKers, leechers, and terribads. It was a pretty horrible and toxic place to pug.
Guess what, with the removal of fail objectives, those days will be coming back in force.
AFK can be done right now
leechers can be done right now
terribads can be right with you now
removing a Fail and replacing it with a bonus changes nothing at all ...Except a fail and a wasted 30 minute lockout
Its a much worse place right now..................
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
agreed, the old pre-DR STFs where filled with AFKers, leechers, and terribads. It was a pretty horrible and toxic place to pug.
Guess what, with the removal of fail objectives, those days will be coming back in force.
DOOM DOOM! The PUG queue's will now be full of AFKers getting their loot for free, players will be crushed under the weight of their sloth like a mill stone because the developers would never be smart enough to program in a fail condition that will kick off if people aren't even trying so now we'll be DOOOMED
It will still be possible to fail a queue. These failure conditions will be limited to checks that players are actually attempting to complete the queue or that they are not getting stuck in a situation where they cannot win.
Oh wait, nevermind, they put more thought into this than you. That's a relief.
On a personal note, just tickled that this thread is still going on, I hope it's still running when these changes materialize. It'll be a nice thing to look back on, for better or worse.
It will still be possible to fail a queue. These failure conditions will be limited to checks that players are actually attempting to complete the queue or that they are not getting stuck in a situation where they cannot win.
Oh wait, nevermind, they put more thought into this than you. That's a relief.
You should read more about what those fail conditions are (er, and are not).
Azure Nebula Rescue Advanced?
Mission Failure: Players are required to rescue at least one ship.
Gateway to Grethor Advanced?
Advanced now fails if the team does not save a single transport in phase 2.
Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced?
Advanced no longer has required objectives.
Herald Sphere Advanced?
Stage 1: Advanced version can no longer be failed here.
Stage 2: Optional bonus for Normal AND Advanced can be failed.
---The whole mission does not fail when this happens.
Stage 3: Advanced no longer fails if timer expires
Stage 4: Optional bonus for defeating the boss before time runs out for both Normal AND Advanced.
---Advanced does not fail when timer expires.
I don't get the point you're trying to make there, Virus. All of those missions require something to be done to be completed. In the last 2 you must also kill the boss. Same with Brotherhood. Also I assume in brotherhood you fail if the timer runs out in any room? I can't confirm that. Azure has the least requirements of the 4 by far.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You should read more about what those fail conditions are (er, and are not).
Well aware of what they are, and your point I assume is that it won't stop a bad team from taking more than 45 minutes to complete an STF that folks are used to downing in 15, or maybe your point is that AFKers would have to have the bad luck to end up on a team that is composed entirely, or mostly, of afkers and so these measures do not stop the flood of "afkers, leechers and terribads" that Sarcasmdetector is warning us about.
For the first, sorry, sometimes random teams are bad and you have to decide between eating the leaver penalty or fighting through it. The people who'd rather fail gracefully within 5-15 minutes and quit without penalty are apparently outweighed by the people who'd like to fight on and finish even if they aren't fast enough to do the optional, or at least someone in development must think so or they wouldn't be putting extra effort into making these changes.
For the second, AFKers are here right now, the chance that a run could fail and use a single STF's queue for 30 minutes doesn't really change the math involved in deciding to AFK. You see, whether there's a failure chance or not, there is still no more time efficient way to make your dilithium than taking five seconds to queue up and hitting the accept button before alt tabbing out to watch Netflix, or heading to breakfast, playing a different game, chatting on the forums, or whatever it is AFKer's do while STO is running in the background.
And as for "leechers and terribads," there's a chance they could even agree with you, a good chance. A player who keeps showing up but is unable to provide the necessary skill to pull his weight is statistically more likely to be a failed run. His very presence guarantees at least one below average player more on average, where as a skilled player is guaranteed at least one more skilled player on average. He may very well find 3 or 4 hard, 45 minute runs where transformers are healed multiple times chases him away from advanced and back to normal, where he can spend 45 minutes running 2 STF's for similar rewards and none of the aggravation.
Dilithium: 3-4 minutes, 2.5k-4k+ (heh, right now it's 4.5k-7k+ with the Delta Recruit boost)
Qo'noS...
Turn Over Contraband
Consign Prisoners if Prisoner capped/near cap
Fly to Ganalda/Klingon Fleet...
Multiple Contraband Assignments
Forced Labor if Available
Fly to Azure Nebula (slipstream)...
Colonists (coming and going)
Multiple Contraband Assignments
--random stuff as desired, I go for R&D Mats---
edit2: forgot to mention the Dil Mining missions that might be under Engineering.
edit4: something else that can come into play are the various GPL Assignments, cause earning GPL that way can open up the possibility of buying more Prisoners for GPL and thus getting more Dil.
Used to take less time to get better rewards, but it's been nerfed a few times over the years.
Heck, since one is flying to Azure instead of transwarping to Surface Tension...could even check out the Contraband and Prisoner Assignments in Pi Canis on the way.
Will even have so much Contraband going one can feed Fed toons or just sell it.
* * * * *
Almost everything is easier to get outside of the queues.
Funny, mind you, looking at it...I know they did the 100:1 Mark:E-Mark thing, I have to wonder if they'd consider allowing one to trade E-Marks for Marks too...going the other way.
The two missions on Kobali provide 67 Iconian Marks and 2 Iconian E-Marks. 40 days to get T5, means somebody would have 2680 Iconian Marks and 80 Iconian E-Marks...lol, 80 E-Marks? Would be nifty to trade those in for regular Marks.
edit: Then again, using 30 of those Marks a day for the Rep Projects...would leave 1480 Marks and 80 E-Marks...lol.
edit3: Kind of sucks too, thinking about it - the vendortrash nerf - used to be a decent source of EC as well from all the deflectors/engines/shields/cores/etc from the Marauding/Engineering Assignments...oh well, it's still some additional EC coming in.
Everybody can enjoy the game even without the rewards. Excepts others want more than want they deserve.
VD simplified the situation and less blunt about it. I am more blunt about it. Based on the rationality of complaints in this thread, We already have identified what kind of playerbase wants more than they deserve:
1) those who refuse to improve themselves and insist on completing PuG advance
2) those who refuse to improve team and refuse #1
3) those who refuse to go down to normal/solo and refuse #1,#2,#3
4) those who refuse #1,#2,#3 but demand to be in advance
5) those demanding rewards but refuse #1,2,3,4
6) those who refuse to buy rewards in exchange and also refuse #1,2,3,4,5
That is a very specific playerbase which is self inflicted and self created. Everyone can get all rewards and everyone can enjoy but those who their own actions are the reason why they are not enjoying. Had they acted and resolve by doing either one of the 6 numbers I mentiond, all problems will be solved.
So they end up in the forums demanding that they game adjust this very specific playerbase who refuse to act upon their self inflicted issues while the rest of the playerbase dont have to be demanding like they do ad adjust whatever gives them. In short, Cryptic is giving this very specific playerbase who have self inflicted problems favoritism, which we already pointed and proven isnt the majority of the playerbase.
That is self entitlement and spoiled. Sorry but I cannot avoid those words because that what all these players rationalities are. And I dont have to create my own dictionary for you guys like some players in ths thread, it is a simple fact that you guys are in denial off.
And yet, I don't see why that is important to define in order to a section of the content that is not designed well enough to me.
Fun is subject, I'll give you that. But why should the game be designed to force you to do things you don't find as fun in order to do the things you do find fun?
Specifically, why does a person have to run STF's to crafting? STF's are not crafting. Crafting is not STF's. Yet Crafting is dependent upon people running STF's to actually do the higher end crafting. But there is no Carfting requirements to run STF's.
I don't fit any of the catagories you described above. I don't have a "team" to improve, or know enough people to form a team. And I look at information and what I can do to change my dps as often as time permits. Yet, I would rather there be some Solo Content, that I could do to get the mats I want. They can make that content dificult and then I wouldn't be dependent on running STF's to do what I want.
I am not here to advocate or even concern myself with quantifiying if the the playerbase is desrving of the rewards. I here trying to make a better way to get the rewards for those who want them. I beleive that creating content that is progressive in nature will teach people how to play the game better. And the better they get, the better it is for everyone as we collective will get better PUG's that will get the objectives done.
To me, timers do not promote teamwork, just trolls and run and gunners. Timers do not allow for strategizing. Change the goals so that they can't be trolled and allows for people to strategize, and that will make the game and players better.
I am not in denial, I just have a more positive outlook about others and where the changes will take us than you. To each his own, guess. But I can't live in such negative. Not in my nature.
Except Tom's looking for the same TV...so nothing was overlooked.
It's very common for different tiers of content to reward different tiers of rewards.
You want the Legendary Mighty Axe of Demonstomping? You can't get that from hitting up the easy part of the dungeon...you have to hit up the hard part.
It comes down to two kinds of players...
I want this...what do I need to do to be able to get that.
I want this...why do I need to do that to be able to get that?
Somebody wants the Very Rare mats...they should have to do something more to get to them. Otherwise...they're not Very Rare mats are they? They're Common mats.
That goes back to what came up earlier...
"People need to accept..."
...but the person requesting that things be changed to suit them is not accepting anything and is instead asking that all others accept what they want.
Freshman Speech class...
Even if Tom got the same TV, it will take Tom waaayy longer than Jerry to get. So Jerry still wins out. He gets to enjoy it for longer.
It's very common for gear to be of different power levels in different tiers. But not that gear will not be present in Tier 1 and suddenly be there in Tier 2. That's my point.You may need to run the hardest content to get the Legendary Mighty Axe of Demonstomping, but the lower diffulty content you will get the Axe of Demonstomping and the you can do the next level of content to get the Mighty Axe of Demonstomping. It's gear, that is getting better. It is also gear that is helping you get geared for the next level properly.
I agree that if someone wants to have rare mats that they need to do something. But why does it have to be Advanced or Elite STF's only? There should be other options to get that materials. Content that is either not relient on others or content that is related to crafting.
I have never said that I wanted the mats for free, just that I don't want others from blocking me from getting what I want. PUGing is my only current option to get Mats. It's not realiable and very open to being trolled by others, ruining my fun and my efforts to play. Eleminate the options to lose because one persons failure, and promote team gameplay and learning in the content, and things will get better accross the board. Create also content for alternate routes to gain materials and then you will reduce the heartarche of the bad PUGs and increase the ways people can play their way.
And I don't understand the Freshman Speech reference. Sorry.
I merely stated facts. I can simplify it if you want so that your level of intelligence can understand it:
The issue of the thread is normal skilled difficulty players, not all but the specific of, who think they deserve to have advance rewards but refuse to increase their effort into the current advance difficulty level.
So, to solve this, rather than increasing their effort, those who complain in thread about this want normal skill difficult level effort to get advance rewards even without doing advance difficulty effort by nerfing advance to normal difficulty level objectives.
Hmm....we view this thread differently.
I started on this thread only to talk about how a change could be made to the Advanced queues to make the game better, and remove the auto-fails were are a detriment to having fun in the content, detriment to team play and limits the options of what the players must do in order to enjoy aspects of the game not connected to STF's.
I am trying to say something and try to suggest solutions. Which I think is the most responsible and productive thing to do. Don't you think so too?
Answering that as a yes, gives an unwarranted appearance of agreement that may not exist otherwise.
Answering that as a no, not wanting to give that appearance of there being that kind of agreement otherwise in turn has the effect of one not wanting to be responsible and productive.
The question in of itself insinuates the person disagreeing with you is not interested in being responsible and productive, which could put them on the defensive or goad them into taking the offensive in return...basically set themselves up as simply looking argumentative rather than having an argument.
Even if one were to attempt to answer yes with a caveat, they'll have set themselves up for a myriad of interruptions.
"Yes, but..." interrupt "So you agree." And then the opponent has to scramble about.
"While I..." interrupt "Do you or do you not agree?" And the opponent appears to be avoiding the subject.
Answering that as a yes, gives an unwarranted appearance of agreement that may not exist otherwise.
Answering that as a no, not wanting to give that appearance of there being that kind of agreement otherwise in turn has the effect of one not wanting to be responsible and productive.
The question in of itself insinuates the person disagreeing with you is not interested in being responsible and productive, which could put them on the defensive or goad them into taking the offensive in return...basically set themselves up as simply looking argumentative rather than having an argument.
Even if one were to attempt to answer yes with a caveat, they'll have set themselves up for a myriad of interruptions.
"Yes, but..." interrupt "So you agree." And then the opponent has to scramble about.
"While I..." interrupt "Do you or do you not agree?" And the opponent appears to be avoiding the subject.
It's a trap.
Sorry, wasn't meant to be a trap. Was a genuine question to determine if people what I choose to do was the right thing to do. I just didn't want 'right' to be to nebulous and so tried to define it more purposeful than me. I never would have thought of it as being a 'trap'. Again, I am just not that pessimestic enough to read things in that manner. Not my nature.
All the same, overlooking your beleif of a trap, isn't it better to speak up and suggest corrections better than any of the other options I presented? I really just want to know if we stand on some common ground somewhere.
Hmm....we view this thread differently.
I started on this thread only to talk about how a change could be made to the Advanced queues to make the game better, and remove the auto-fails were are a detriment to having fun in the content, detriment to team play and limits the options of what the players must do in order to enjoy aspects of the game not connected to STF's.
Changing the mechanics to specific a playerbase needs doesnt make the game better. Auto fails only fail if the players dont follow instructions.
Why do certain players not enjoy the failure, because they fail. they fail the mission because the player or their team didnt implement the objectives of the mission.
Like I keep on saying, detriment to fun is the player who is insisting and stringent only doing stuffs rather than actually implementing the current objectives and adapting with the rest of the community by using the current mechanics.
The first rationality of advance thread nerf is that they are having a hard time. So we gave a solution. Improve self to carry the whole team. Refusal by the specific playerbase.
Second insistence is get out of PuGs and get better teams. Again refusal by the specific playerbase.
Third was insistence to PuG, Again, solution is to improve self to carry whole team. Refusal by specific playerbase.
Fourth, rationaility was wanting stay get advance rewards. But since refuse first three solutions why not go down to normal. Refused again by the playerbase.
Fifth, since refused the first fourth solutions, why not just buy the rewards instead of playing since dont want to do the first four solutions. So flaty refuse by the specific playerbase.
Every in game solution we gave is a rejection and the only solution to the specific playerbase who wants to nerf advance mission is to nerf advance mission.
Who killed their fun, the game or themselves? It is themselves. It is a self created and self inflicted problem that destroyed their fun. While the rest of the playerbase enjoys and having fun, a very specific playerbase does not for the reason that I just said.
Comments
Fun is a very subjective term.
Everybody can enjoy the game even without the rewards. Excepts others want more than want they deserve.
VD simplified the situation and less blunt about it. I am more blunt about it. Based on the rationality of complaints in this thread, We already have identified what kind of playerbase wants more than they deserve:
1) those who refuse to improve themselves and insist on completing PuG advance
2) those who refuse to improve team and refuse #1
3) those who refuse to go down to normal/solo and refuse #1,#2,#3
4) those who refuse #1,#2,#3 but demand to be in advance
5) those demanding rewards but refuse #1,2,3,4
6) those who refuse to buy rewards in exchange and also refuse #1,2,3,4,5
That is a very specific playerbase which is self inflicted and self created. Everyone can get all rewards and everyone can enjoy but those who their own actions are the reason why they are not enjoying. Had they acted and resolve by doing either one of the 6 numbers I mentiond, all problems will be solved.
So they end up in the forums demanding that they game adjust this very specific playerbase who refuse to act upon their self inflicted issues while the rest of the playerbase dont have to be demanding like they do ad adjust whatever gives them. In short, Cryptic is giving this very specific playerbase who have self inflicted problems favoritism, which we already pointed and proven isnt the majority of the playerbase.
That is self entitlement and spoiled. Sorry but I cannot avoid those words because that what all these players rationalities are. And I dont have to create my own dictionary for you guys like some players in ths thread, it is a simple fact that you guys are in denial off.
Except Tom's looking for the same TV...so nothing was overlooked.
It's very common for different tiers of content to reward different tiers of rewards.
You want the Legendary Mighty Axe of Demonstomping? You can't get that from hitting up the easy part of the dungeon...you have to hit up the hard part.
It comes down to two kinds of players...
I want this...what do I need to do to be able to get that.
I want this...why do I need to do that to be able to get that?
Somebody wants the Very Rare mats...they should have to do something more to get to them. Otherwise...they're not Very Rare mats are they? They're Common mats.
That goes back to what came up earlier...
"People need to accept..."
...but the person requesting that things be changed to suit them is not accepting anything and is instead asking that all others accept what they want.
Freshman Speech class...
I never said that effort should not be rewarded. Strawman argument.
Except the only fallacy is your own.
There is no hidden agenda in my ideas. It actually is pro-returning elite and advanced back to the difficultly they were.
The only fraud is yourself, resorting to strawmen, and ad hominem (fallacies) rather than what I or others have said.
The fraud is yours in that clearly it isn't really about the challenge, and only the reward for you.
The fraud is that you can't understand I'm against the change to the difficulty change also. I'm against the removal of the autofail. It isn't solving the problem . The people complaining about the autofail wouldn't queue up for advanced and elite those and TRIBBLE up the runs for the rest of us if they didn't feel they needed to, to progress.
You don't want noobs and under geared people queuing for Advanced and Elite, then don't give them a reason to. Given them a reason to want to stick to normal mode.
I never said octopus. Strawberry argument.
edit: I questioned your definition of entitlement, if you're at all confused.
Now with these three areas in place, diliithium farming became easy. Which in turn made life easier for the player. But at the same time it had the reverse affect of ques starting to empty out. But Cryptic did take notice on how much happier the players were with being able to farm that much needed dilithium. Then at some point in all this, Cryptic decides to make life even easier on the player, by adding dilithium rewards to quests. I can't remember if the quests back then awared dilithium or not, but even if they did, it wasn't enough to amount to much of anything. Now with all this already in place, Starbases coming to completion, players start to build their dil up again, but start complaning that there is nothing to do, this is deadly to a playerbase, a game with nothing to do. Repeat episodes, do STFs, and farm teh dailies. At this point I would gues is when Legacy of Romulus hit and off and running people went. See the pattern here? Cryptic gives things that make the players life easier, but in return also give new things to make them use their zen and/or dil to get what they want.
You want to see this sense of self-entitlement and spoiled attitude disappear from the player base. Remove the dilithium reward form everything but Episodes, Battlezones, Doffing, and STFs. Granted there will be a lot of crying on the forums over because now people actually have to go do something for dilithium now.
Now back on track with the thread here.
Ok so it not all the STFs that have had the Optional autofail removed. Just did a Khitomer in Stasis Adv. Failed the optional(which leaves me wondering how you even fail this one) but we did. IT awareded 10 marks for the failure(yeah this needs to go). But so far it only seems that the Optional autofail has been removed from the Iconian STFs, because "They're to hard." Haven't had a chance to test any of the others, oh wait, Adv Defend Rh'ihho Station also failed on saving the workers. Nukara we can't count in here, because they're still the only ones death is a failure, haven't failed the optional on these so can't say. As for the others haven't had a chance to test them out yet to see.
Master Key Price: 125 Zen
- 10 Pack: 1,125 Zen (save 125 Zen)
Required Dilithium Per Key: 30,875
- 10 Pack: 277,875
Current Master Key Price On Exchange: 2,300,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,300,000 EC
Current Very Rare Material Prices On Exchange
Argonite Gas: 100,000 EC
- per Unit: 100,000 EC
Craylon Gas: 37,999 EC
- per Unit: 7,955 EC (87,500 EC for 11; 417,989 EC if bought individually*)
Dentarium: 10,000 EC
- per Unit: 7,500 EC (150,000 EC for 20; 200,000 EC if bought individually*)
Plekton: 167,750 EC
- per Unit: 135,000 EC (10,530,000 EC for 78; 13,084,500 EC if bought individually*)
Radiogenic Particle: 99,500 EC
- per Unit: 99,500 EC
Trellium-K: 23,000 EC
- per Unit: 9,167 EC (27,500 EC for 3; 69,000 EC if bought individually*)
*would require sufficient supply at that price, otherwise figure it to be higher.
Given the ease of which can find oneself tripping over Dilithium from various sources and the ease of hitting the 8,000 cap on a single character and players have four free slots...
...it would be far faster/efficient/likely enjoyable to farm the Dil playing various content, convert the Dil to Zen, buy a Master Key, sell said Master Key for EC, and use the EC to buy the desired VR Mats...than it would be to risk running the content that may or may not reward the VR Mats.
And well, that's not the only route one can go.
Every 96 hours, for 1,000 Dil, one can do the Requisition R&D Assistance DOFF assignment...though the rewards will be random, it wasn't that too bad previously before the prices on everything completely tanked because of the massive surplus compared to demand. It's still an option - how good an option would be subjective.
Research and Development Pack: 300 Zen
- 4 Pack: 1000 Zen (save 200 Zen)
Also on the Exchange...
Research & Development Mini-Pack: 995,000 EC
- per Unit: 995,000 EC
Research & Development Pack: 2,000,000 EC
- per Unit: 2,000,000 EC
Yes, one can buy a Master Key for 125 Zen and sell it for more EC than the R&D Pack which costs 300 Zen sells for; there are various things like that.
There is currently a sale going on.
Fleet Ship Module: 400 Zen (normally 500)
On the Exchange?
Fleet Ship Module: 10,500,000 EC
- per Unit: 10,500,000 EC
Ship Upgrade Token: 560 Zen (normally 700, and yes, I just bought a damn one a couple of days ago - bastiches! Heh.)
- 4 Pack: 1,600 Zen (normally 2,000 Zen)
On the Exchange?
Starship Upgrade Requisition: 8,900,000 EC
- per Unit: 8,900,000 EC
So let's do a quick review.
1125 Zen for a 10 Pack of Master Keys to 23,000,000 EC: 20,444.4 EC per Zen.
125 Zen for a single Master Key to 2,300,000 EC: 18,400 EC per Zen.
1,000 Zen for a 4 Pack of Research and Development Packs to 8,000,000 EC: 8,000 EC per Zen.
300 Zen for a Research and Development Pack to 2,000,000 EC: 6666.7 EC per Zen.
400 Zen for a Fleet Ship Module to 10,500,000 EC: 26,250 EC per Zen.
1,600 Zen for a 4 Pack of Ship Upgrade Tokens to 35,600,000 EC: 22,250 EC per Zen.
560 Zen for a Ship Upgrade Token to 8,900,000 EC: 15,892.8 EC per Zen.
Have to account for movement...how quickly the product is selling, cause something might have a better ratio but not move that frequently - so it might be worthwhile to go with another ratio for a quicker return.
But one could basically buy Keys, sell them, buy R&D Packs, split the difference buying various mats, and take it from there...or...going back to the prices of the mats, just buy them.
This is not taking into account any EC revenue that would come about from the sale of any crafted items as well. People buy all sorts of thing, so one can recoup some of the loss on what might otherwise be considered vendortrash - keeping in mind the sheer amount of market saturation that may exist because of an overwhelming supply versus a limited demand.
There are a variety of things one can do...where one sells what they've got in order to buy what they want - allowing one not to have to suffer through content they may not enjoy but feel forced to run because of wanting something from it.
Because those items...simply aren't exclusive to that content.
This aint a fallacy.
I merely stated facts. I can simplify it if you want so that your level of intelligence can understand it:
The issue of the thread is normal skilled difficulty players, not all but the specific of, who think they deserve to have advance rewards but refuse to increase their effort into the current advance difficulty level.
So, to solve this, rather than increasing their effort, those who complain in thread about this want normal skill difficult level effort to get advance rewards even without doing advance difficulty effort by nerfing advance to normal difficulty level objectives.
Aside from a handful of powerdilruns with my hardcore gang on other elite PvEs I only paid attention to that map on my short gaming session yesterday after the patch.
First time I decided to pug advanced by myself. As expected the team ways a mess, with a lot of players probably not belonging there, but seeing where this mission is going I took my healing toon. I saved the fire team, healed and rescued the Orion (dont know what happened to the targs but wasnt me) and on more than one occasion I had to activate centre as well as one secondary leaving 33% of the stage for the other players to handle which they got right eventually.
Second time I went in with my fleet. No out of this world DPS or anything but surely good and reliable players. Took my partially MK12 undergeared delta engineer this time knowing we had a good healer in the group. Enemies beat harder but thanks to the teamwork and assigned roles the mission goal was fairly accomplishable so we grabbed the elite reward cryptic repaired there a few minutes later.
I can't tell you how happy I am toward the change. In any constellation I got a feeling of having to play for my rewards and probably even risk when I choose elite. Either when Im alone or in a group fun play was ensured on the map I wanted to do without the need to face that annoyingly easy normal mode. Since this isnt one of the harder maps around I think in the long run I have to ensure fun for myself there by continuously pugging elite with 1 or 2 friends tending towards the criticals.
So queue up peeps! I couldnt care less how good or bad you are because you all contribute to my gaming experience just the way I want it.
And thank you cryptic for restoring that balance to the game, keep at it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Good lord, why in the hell are these so high in value, they are simple to obtain?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
There are alarm bugs on all difficulties, however spotting them remains the issue. If you don't know what to look for, you'll probably never find it. The first bug is obvious. The second comes in with the first wave so you have to look for him. The third one comes in a wave or two after the initial wave so you are already knee deep in bugs and chaos and suddenly have to find this one bug that looks so very slightly different from the others.
I think I said it earlier in this thread, I had done BHA many times without having a clue what the alarm bugs were, and this would not be any better on normal. Why? Someone else is killing them for me. I didn't know what to look for, and by the time I might find it on my own, it is already dead. If someone knows what they are, if they spot them, they can be killed fairly quickly, so one person doing it for everyone else means the rest don't get to learn what the bug is, what it looks like, or what it does.
The thing is, many ISE's I've seen salvaged after the nanites heal the transformer. It isn't a big deal. They heal it, you lose the optional reward. Okay. Now you kill them all and do it better this time. Maybe the gravwell misfired, maybe the group didn't seem like it needed it, maybe it needed three and only got one, and maybe someone didn't obey the 10% rule. Whatever went wrong, it was entirely recoverable, and you would learn that on normal too.
So to go and make it mandatory just makes no sense. It is utterly arbitrary to pick that objective and make it mandatory. Keeping it as an optional makes more sense and of course prevents trolls.
On the same note, I can't understand why BHA has alarm bugs as a mandatory optional either. We are noisily slaughtering them by the hundreds and we are supposed to believe they aren't already alerted to our presence? Absurd.
Fail conditions can be fine, if they actually make sense and aren't just tacked on arbitrarily with poor balancing and little thought behind them. ANRA shows, both now and with the previous mandatory, the devs are fairly out of touch with what the optionals/mandatories are actually demanding given the actual nature of the STF.
Because players are your basic Ferengi. Hell I've had stuff I know I could sell for high prices that I've been tossing on the exchange on occassion for cheap prices just to be rid of them.
As far as I know on this. On the the Borg Adv and Elite ground stfs give Plekton. Everything else gives Craylon Gas.. Hmm Craylon Gas... is this used in the making of Crayolas? If so, I can get teh delux 64 pack?
Hrmmm, this was from another thread - I'm not going to change the highlighting in it, it was a Craylon vs. Radiogenic sort of thing in that thread - but it lists the things there all the same.
It's funny too, imho, cause CCA...Radiogenic. But yeah, folks need all the Beam STUs for their Beams.
Plekton I don't get, are folks doing the Ground STUs? Cause otherwise, they could grab the Argonite for the Iso Chip and Sig Mod.
Post your worst STF experiance
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=262305
03-22-2012, 12:02 AM
349 pages long / 3485 posts as I type this out.
Delta Rising? 10-14-2014
Page #325, Post #3246, 10-17-2014, 10:54 AM
Over 300 pages and over 3000 posts...before Delta Rising.
Post #24...
Post #50...
Post #75...
Post #100...
Post #125...
Post #150...
Post #173...
Post #199...
Post #226....
Post #250...
That's just trying for every 25 through 10 posts...like I said, there are thousands of them.
And that thread's not the only thread where folks have posted complaints over the years - there have been countless complaint threads and posts amidst threads which weren't complaint threads but folks had reasons to complain all the same...
Reading through it, one will see a lot of the same complaints - over and over again - over the years - and...even after DR, many of the same old complaints.
What changed with the Mandatory Objectives, though, is there's not the 20-40+ minute hostage situations...there's not eating the leaver penalty for an hour. So instead of sitting in some run for 40 minutes on something that might usually take 10-15 minutes, folks can go do other things - instead of being locked out of everything for an hour, folks can go do other things.
And that's kind of the thing, the retcon folks have done of how awesome everything was before the Mandatory Objectives...yeah, no, that's not quite how it was. It was the same failgasm if not actually worse...and it was a Hell of a lot more punitive than it is now.
Guess what, with the removal of fail objectives, those days will be coming back in force.
Ehh, no. I've been pugging for over 3 years exclusively. There was no problem at all until October last. Unless you define problem as not finishing ISE in under 60 seconds.
I have seen failures in borg ground missions in the olden times. Other than that I can not recall a single problem that stands out in thousands and thousands of runs until October 14 2014.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
AFK can be done right now
leechers can be done right now
terribads can be right with you now
removing a Fail and replacing it with a bonus changes nothing at all ...Except a fail and a wasted 30 minute lockout
Its a much worse place right now..................
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
DOOM DOOM! The PUG queue's will now be full of AFKers getting their loot for free, players will be crushed under the weight of their sloth like a mill stone because the developers would never be smart enough to program in a fail condition that will kick off if people aren't even trying so now we'll be DOOOMED
Oh wait, nevermind, they put more thought into this than you. That's a relief.
On a personal note, just tickled that this thread is still going on, I hope it's still running when these changes materialize. It'll be a nice thing to look back on, for better or worse.
You should read more about what those fail conditions are (er, and are not).
Azure Nebula Rescue Advanced?
Gateway to Grethor Advanced?
Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced?
Herald Sphere Advanced?
Ooopsie, eh?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Well aware of what they are, and your point I assume is that it won't stop a bad team from taking more than 45 minutes to complete an STF that folks are used to downing in 15, or maybe your point is that AFKers would have to have the bad luck to end up on a team that is composed entirely, or mostly, of afkers and so these measures do not stop the flood of "afkers, leechers and terribads" that Sarcasmdetector is warning us about.
For the first, sorry, sometimes random teams are bad and you have to decide between eating the leaver penalty or fighting through it. The people who'd rather fail gracefully within 5-15 minutes and quit without penalty are apparently outweighed by the people who'd like to fight on and finish even if they aren't fast enough to do the optional, or at least someone in development must think so or they wouldn't be putting extra effort into making these changes.
For the second, AFKers are here right now, the chance that a run could fail and use a single STF's queue for 30 minutes doesn't really change the math involved in deciding to AFK. You see, whether there's a failure chance or not, there is still no more time efficient way to make your dilithium than taking five seconds to queue up and hitting the accept button before alt tabbing out to watch Netflix, or heading to breakfast, playing a different game, chatting on the forums, or whatever it is AFKer's do while STO is running in the background.
And as for "leechers and terribads," there's a chance they could even agree with you, a good chance. A player who keeps showing up but is unable to provide the necessary skill to pull his weight is statistically more likely to be a failed run. His very presence guarantees at least one below average player more on average, where as a skilled player is guaranteed at least one more skilled player on average. He may very well find 3 or 4 hard, 45 minute runs where transformers are healed multiple times chases him away from advanced and back to normal, where he can spend 45 minutes running 2 STF's for similar rewards and none of the aggravation.
Qo'noS...
Turn Over Contraband
Consign Prisoners if Prisoner capped/near cap
Fly to Ganalda/Klingon Fleet...
Multiple Contraband Assignments
Forced Labor if Available
Fly to Azure Nebula (slipstream)...
Colonists (coming and going)
Multiple Contraband Assignments
--random stuff as desired, I go for R&D Mats---
edit2: forgot to mention the Dil Mining missions that might be under Engineering.
edit4: something else that can come into play are the various GPL Assignments, cause earning GPL that way can open up the possibility of buying more Prisoners for GPL and thus getting more Dil.
Used to take less time to get better rewards, but it's been nerfed a few times over the years.
Heck, since one is flying to Azure instead of transwarping to Surface Tension...could even check out the Contraband and Prisoner Assignments in Pi Canis on the way.
Will even have so much Contraband going one can feed Fed toons or just sell it.
* * * * *
Almost everything is easier to get outside of the queues.
Funny, mind you, looking at it...I know they did the 100:1 Mark:E-Mark thing, I have to wonder if they'd consider allowing one to trade E-Marks for Marks too...going the other way.
The two missions on Kobali provide 67 Iconian Marks and 2 Iconian E-Marks. 40 days to get T5, means somebody would have 2680 Iconian Marks and 80 Iconian E-Marks...lol, 80 E-Marks? Would be nifty to trade those in for regular Marks.
edit: Then again, using 30 of those Marks a day for the Rep Projects...would leave 1480 Marks and 80 E-Marks...lol.
edit3: Kind of sucks too, thinking about it - the vendortrash nerf - used to be a decent source of EC as well from all the deflectors/engines/shields/cores/etc from the Marauding/Engineering Assignments...oh well, it's still some additional EC coming in.
And yet, I don't see why that is important to define in order to a section of the content that is not designed well enough to me.
Fun is subject, I'll give you that. But why should the game be designed to force you to do things you don't find as fun in order to do the things you do find fun?
Specifically, why does a person have to run STF's to crafting? STF's are not crafting. Crafting is not STF's. Yet Crafting is dependent upon people running STF's to actually do the higher end crafting. But there is no Carfting requirements to run STF's.
I don't fit any of the catagories you described above. I don't have a "team" to improve, or know enough people to form a team. And I look at information and what I can do to change my dps as often as time permits. Yet, I would rather there be some Solo Content, that I could do to get the mats I want. They can make that content dificult and then I wouldn't be dependent on running STF's to do what I want.
I am not here to advocate or even concern myself with quantifiying if the the playerbase is desrving of the rewards. I here trying to make a better way to get the rewards for those who want them. I beleive that creating content that is progressive in nature will teach people how to play the game better. And the better they get, the better it is for everyone as we collective will get better PUG's that will get the objectives done.
To me, timers do not promote teamwork, just trolls and run and gunners. Timers do not allow for strategizing. Change the goals so that they can't be trolled and allows for people to strategize, and that will make the game and players better.
I am not in denial, I just have a more positive outlook about others and where the changes will take us than you. To each his own, guess. But I can't live in such negative. Not in my nature.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Even if Tom got the same TV, it will take Tom waaayy longer than Jerry to get. So Jerry still wins out. He gets to enjoy it for longer.
It's very common for gear to be of different power levels in different tiers. But not that gear will not be present in Tier 1 and suddenly be there in Tier 2. That's my point.You may need to run the hardest content to get the Legendary Mighty Axe of Demonstomping, but the lower diffulty content you will get the Axe of Demonstomping and the you can do the next level of content to get the Mighty Axe of Demonstomping. It's gear, that is getting better. It is also gear that is helping you get geared for the next level properly.
I agree that if someone wants to have rare mats that they need to do something. But why does it have to be Advanced or Elite STF's only? There should be other options to get that materials. Content that is either not relient on others or content that is related to crafting.
I have never said that I wanted the mats for free, just that I don't want others from blocking me from getting what I want. PUGing is my only current option to get Mats. It's not realiable and very open to being trolled by others, ruining my fun and my efforts to play. Eleminate the options to lose because one persons failure, and promote team gameplay and learning in the content, and things will get better accross the board. Create also content for alternate routes to gain materials and then you will reduce the heartarche of the bad PUGs and increase the ways people can play their way.
And I don't understand the Freshman Speech reference. Sorry.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Hmm....we view this thread differently.
I started on this thread only to talk about how a change could be made to the Advanced queues to make the game better, and remove the auto-fails were are a detriment to having fun in the content, detriment to team play and limits the options of what the players must do in order to enjoy aspects of the game not connected to STF's.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
The trap part.
Answering that as a yes, gives an unwarranted appearance of agreement that may not exist otherwise.
Answering that as a no, not wanting to give that appearance of there being that kind of agreement otherwise in turn has the effect of one not wanting to be responsible and productive.
The question in of itself insinuates the person disagreeing with you is not interested in being responsible and productive, which could put them on the defensive or goad them into taking the offensive in return...basically set themselves up as simply looking argumentative rather than having an argument.
Even if one were to attempt to answer yes with a caveat, they'll have set themselves up for a myriad of interruptions.
"Yes, but..." interrupt "So you agree." And then the opponent has to scramble about.
"While I..." interrupt "Do you or do you not agree?" And the opponent appears to be avoiding the subject.
It's a trap.
Sorry, wasn't meant to be a trap. Was a genuine question to determine if people what I choose to do was the right thing to do. I just didn't want 'right' to be to nebulous and so tried to define it more purposeful than me. I never would have thought of it as being a 'trap'. Again, I am just not that pessimestic enough to read things in that manner. Not my nature.
All the same, overlooking your beleif of a trap, isn't it better to speak up and suggest corrections better than any of the other options I presented? I really just want to know if we stand on some common ground somewhere.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Changing the mechanics to specific a playerbase needs doesnt make the game better. Auto fails only fail if the players dont follow instructions.
Why do certain players not enjoy the failure, because they fail. they fail the mission because the player or their team didnt implement the objectives of the mission.
Like I keep on saying, detriment to fun is the player who is insisting and stringent only doing stuffs rather than actually implementing the current objectives and adapting with the rest of the community by using the current mechanics.
The first rationality of advance thread nerf is that they are having a hard time. So we gave a solution. Improve self to carry the whole team. Refusal by the specific playerbase.
Second insistence is get out of PuGs and get better teams. Again refusal by the specific playerbase.
Third was insistence to PuG, Again, solution is to improve self to carry whole team. Refusal by specific playerbase.
Fourth, rationaility was wanting stay get advance rewards. But since refuse first three solutions why not go down to normal. Refused again by the playerbase.
Fifth, since refused the first fourth solutions, why not just buy the rewards instead of playing since dont want to do the first four solutions. So flaty refuse by the specific playerbase.
Every in game solution we gave is a rejection and the only solution to the specific playerbase who wants to nerf advance mission is to nerf advance mission.
Who killed their fun, the game or themselves? It is themselves. It is a self created and self inflicted problem that destroyed their fun. While the rest of the playerbase enjoys and having fun, a very specific playerbase does not for the reason that I just said.