Eddie, Albert and Deborah talk and work out a a plan. As things go on. Eddie takes leadership role and adjust the the plan as they go and continues to talk to Eddie and Deborah as much as possible.
At least that is possible, if the there are no timers limiting talk time, and there are no fail conditions that Chuck can trigger.
Those three, working together, will be able to complete the content. It just might take them a bit of time, but they will succeed because they worked together. Betty may, or may not, help out. But at least Chuck can't keep them from succeeding.
Keep fails and timers, and even the people willing and wanting to do thier best get frustrated and run. And they may even run from the game eventually, because they can't succeed.
Ah, so Eddie carries them. Good plan...well, for the two folks that shouldn't have been there in the first place and the guy leeching. :rolleyes:
Not only does Eddie carry them...but he does so for fewer rewards in the process.
Seriously, it's literally one of the reasons that paxdawn's suggestion if one is having a problem in pugs not to pug is a solution. If one can't accept dealing with the completely unprepared, not quite prepared (which is fine when others are but not in that given scenario), leeches, and trolls...then the solution is clear. Don't put yourself in that situation when you can still enjoy that same content in other ways.
And I disagree. The fact that there are timers on the content limits the time you can strategize with people. It also eliminates any real option to stop and rethink what the team is doing to accomplish the goal. People are to pressured by the clock to actually stop and rethink, replan and discuss the options. The timers force you to get it done fast. And doesn't allow for people to figure out what is working and what is not working. Nor does it do anything to promote people to chat. The clock is ticking, and you definately will fail if you waste any time not trying to complete the content. At least running and gunning from the start gives you the option that you might luck out in reaching the goal. But it will never consistantly get the goal.
Team coordination is irrelevant only when the clock says it is. No clock and then people can take the time to talk before the they start at something. Or even when you suffer problems, you can pull back and rethink the process and then re-attack the task with a new plan.
As long as there are timers, there will be no time for talk and team co-ordination with the run for PUG's.
To me, this is a clear and simple thing. And very obvious. For you it is not.
And unless you decide that clocks are bad for PUG's and Teamwork, we are not going to see eye to eye on this.
Again, there is plenty of time to talk things thru, even while doing the mission, if you cannot accomplish this nor, can other's, than they obviously either need more practice and/or, maybe play another game or difficulty setting on this one.
Because people do and, can do all of what you disagree with, very easily!
Never had a problem with timers till they revamped the STF's.
I think the timers that put into the game were antithesis to Puging and teamwork. Pull out the timers and set in other requiremnts to maintain the difficulty and things will probably get better. Remove the options that are failable by one person's actions and things will get better. That is my thoughts on this. Do things in the STF's to promote teamwork, and things will definately improve because people will have to talk to each other and work together.
And while STO is not those MMO's, they are comparable. And there is nothing wrong from taking the lessons another game has learned on how to do something right and apply it to your own product.
This game should be for more than just one set of people or just one way of playing. Expanding it options of play will be better for the game. And that is what I want for the game. To be better than it is now.
You can't maintain the same difficulty, by removing the timers!
Doing so, just makes the mission a game of attrition than, where all that is required to win, is time alone!!!
However, I will agree that failure on account of one or more persons, does get annoying but, it is preventable by the same players who are causing it in the first place.
I mean, what's the point of your job giving you a deadline for a project, if the deadline is an eternity?
It's hard not to see your complaint being that there is stuff to do in the game.
You want to be finished. You don't want to have anything to do in the game.
...seriously?
No. Not correct.
What I want is to beable to do the content I enjoy doing without having one person getting to take all the fun out of it and remove any chance of progression. And on my limited time frame, push the time tables of a couple months out to 6 or more. Because they get some kick out of ruining the game for others.
It's not a matter of finishing the game. But a matter of completing what should be attainable goals to open up other options of play.
My fun is from setting goals and attaining them. It's hard to accomplish 'attainable' goals when the game is setup to allow one person ruin the fun for 4 others, no matter what they do.
SO I am asking for them to either change the mechanics of the content to remove the trolling, and change the content to promote teamwork, or put in other alternate content, that isn't about money, to attain the same rewards at the same level of difficulty.
Then why is you're doing exactly that...wanting the game to be for you. No options there...just how you want it. There are all sorts of options there for all sorts of different people to do things - but you don't like those. And so you want to change that...wanting the game to be for you.
You're doing exactly what you're complaining about, when what you're complaining about missing already exists.
You just want to change the game to be for you.
They were already pointed out...by a few folks. Your definitions of words...being different.
No. I have not been doing that. I don't want to change the ENTIRE game for my playstyle. I have have never said to remove the options that others have presented. Only that I want additional options to be added to accomedate those that can't or on't avail themeselves of the other options.
If people want to take the EC route to get everything they want, great. Enjoy your game.
If people want to dil farm. Great! Enjoy your game.
If people want to only run the content in pre-mades. Great. Enjoy your game.
If people want to spend real life money to get what they want in this game. Great! Enjoy your game.
You want to PUG content and carry everyone. Great! Enjoy your game.
But if a solo person wants to do content, and not get limited by others, so that they can attain their goals. Options need to to be provided, because that is not there now. SO either the content has to be changed to kill trolling and alllow people to give reasonable effort for reasonable rewards, or new content added to allow for an alternate method to get to the same place without it being trollable by others.
So no, I am not trying to force everyone to play my way. I am trying to find a way for more routes to the same end goal to opened up. That people will not be forced to play the current limited ways that are not an actual option to every person.
What I want is to beable to do the content I enjoy doing without having one person getting to take all the fun out of it and remove any chance of progression. And on my limited time frame, push the time tables of a couple months out to 6 or more. Because they get some kick out of ruining the game for others.
But you haven't made any suggestions that remove one person's ability to affect you, and you've ignored the options that already exist so that one person cannot affect you.
My fun is from setting goals and attaining them. It's hard to accomplish 'attainable' goals when the game is setup to allow one person ruin the fun for 4 others, no matter what they do.
Then suggest something that actually addresses that problem.
SO I am asking for them to either change the mechanics of the content to remove the trolling, and change the content to promote teamwork, or put in other alternate content, that isn't about money, to attain the same rewards at the same level of difficulty.
But again, you haven't suggested a thing that removes trolling.
You talk about promoting teamwork, but you don't talk about them adding any sort of content that would require teamwork - it takes more teamwork to go to the grocery store than anything in this game. If you want to promote teamwork, talk about some content that would require it.
You can get the VR R&D mats with less difficulty and without spending any money.
That claim was full of it, especially from YOU, and not what he said.
Really? Let's see...you say paxdawn has entitlement issues. I ask about your definition there. paxdawn comments on you making up words. Just how are you having a difficult time following that?
Really? Let's see...you say paxdawn has entitlement issues.
I already rebutted your BS response given the context which you ignored.
And he is entitled. He thinks he's the only one that deserves a reward rather than a proportional one. You ignored the proportional context to build your strawman.
So we can chalk up dishonesty as one of your qualities.
Ah, so Eddie carries them. Good plan...well, for the two folks that shouldn't have been there in the first place and the guy leeching. :rolleyes:
Not only does Eddie carry them...but he does so for fewer rewards in the process.
Seriously, it's literally one of the reasons that paxdawn's suggestion if one is having a problem in pugs not to pug is a solution. If one can't accept dealing with the completely unprepared, not quite prepared (which is fine when others are but not in that given scenario), leeches, and trolls...then the solution is clear. Don't put yourself in that situation when you can still enjoy that same content in other ways.
No Eddie is not "carrying them". Eddie is helping them learn what is expected. The Team, as a whole, is learning thier own limitations and what they can, and cannot do, to efficient get the content done. The three are finding ways to work together to accomplish the goals. Each are doing the part as best as they can.
As for the leech, outside of afk checks, or maybe some other content invovlement checks, there is no way to stop. And I have not come up with any bright ideas on how to fix leeching at this time. So don't offer any.
As for Eddie. Maybe the three of them work so well to gether that they actually get to know each other, and start teaming up together more often in the future. Which adds to not only his experience, but to the other two as well. And the three of them can then possibly work together to get the unprepared get ready for the next effort.
All things good for the game. Why you think this is bad is beyond me.
As for not PUGing. If I don't know enough people to actually form a team, then you are telling me to quit playing the game.
I am not frustrated by the above scenario as I don't find working with people and failing as bad. I only find that one person able to ruin the fun for others as frustrating. Failing is not my problem, Failing because somebody deliberately wasted my time is a problem. One that I want to fix.
I already rebutted your BS response given the context which you ignored.
And he is entitled. He thinks he's the only one that deserves a reward rather than a proportional one. You ignored the proportional context to build your strawman.
So we can chalk up dishonesty as one of your qualities.
It, like almost all of your posts, suffers an extreme amount of AGK going on.
The proportional stuff? Didn't matter, did it? Cause paxdawn was talking about Marks and you were talking about Tech (and sisteric is talking about R&D mats)...and outside of your AGK over a series of posts there (where you repeatedly said he had entitlement issues)...the basic gist of it is...
He has entitlement issues because there are no proportional rewards for non Mark rewards.
But wait...how is that any different than what was questioned? That he has entitlement issues because of believing that rewards should be tied to effort? It doesn't change.
People that put in effort to get stuff, man they got them some damn entitlement issues, right bro? :rolleyes:
Again, there is plenty of time to talk things thru, even while doing the mission, if you cannot accomplish this nor, can other's, than they obviously either need more practice and/or, maybe play another game or difficulty setting on this one.
Because people do and, can do all of what you disagree with, very easily!
You can't maintain the same difficulty, by removing the timers!
Doing so, just makes the mission a game of attrition than, where all that is required to win, is time alone!!!
However, I will agree that failure on account of one or more persons, does get annoying but, it is preventable by the same players who are causing it in the first place.
I mean, what's the point of your job giving you a deadline for a project, if the deadline is an eternity?
There is not plenty of time, hence the nature of a timer. A timer really does mean you have limited time. And it has always been my direct experience that anything with a timer on it means others will not talk. There too busy trying to to kill everything before fails timer ends to respond.
You can maintain the same level of difficulty by removing timers and turning it into some other thing. Like X number of people must shoot Y before Z happens. It's not that difficult to come up with options that don't involve a timers. Lots of other MMO's are capable of doing this. STO is capable of it too.
STO should not be a job. That is my point. In a job, if I have deadline, it's on me. And no other person can keep me from meeting the deadline. And in a job, if I am reliant on others to do certain portions, and they are not making those goals I set for them, I remove them from the project and get someone else. STO doesn't have that mechanic in it right now. Nor do I think that they should add it, because that opens itself up to other forms of trolling and frustrations to people.
I am happy to see that we at least agree on one thing...:)
But you are not offering options, you're suggesting changes. That's very much the case of contradicting what you said about options.
But you haven't made any suggestions that remove one person's ability to affect you, and you've ignored the options that already exist so that one person cannot affect you.
Other options of play?
Then suggest something that actually addresses that problem.
But again, you haven't suggested a thing that removes trolling.
You talk about promoting teamwork, but you don't talk about them adding any sort of content that would require teamwork - it takes more teamwork to go to the grocery store than anything in this game. If you want to promote teamwork, talk about some content that would require it.
You can get the VR R&D mats with less difficulty and without spending any money.
Maybe they have to be a wee bit realistic about their goals and their expectations.
I have offered some suggestions what kind of options I would like to see, Biggest on my list for me, would be soloable content that will give you the VR mats. I have also suggested put in R&D DOffing missions to get those VR Mats too.
Removing Fail conditions will removing Trolling. One person can't fail the mission. Another thing I have suggested.
I have suggested doing things to promote teamwork, yes. I ahve not said anything concrete because as I have so far been treated in this thread by my other suggestion, I knew that such staements would either be ignored, derided and put down as some sort of 'self-entitled change' for changes sake. So I resigned myself to generalites in this discussion jsut to avoid any more of that treatment here than I am already getting.
These goals, that I have are attainable and reasonable in EVERY OTHER MMO that I have ever played. STO should not just for the those you have more time and money and physcial skill than the average person can be reasonably be expected to have.
No Eddie is not "carrying them". Eddie is helping them learn what is expected. The Team, as a whole, is learning thier own limitations and what they can, and cannot do, to efficient get the content done. The three are finding ways to work together to accomplish the goals. Each are doing the part as best as they can.
As for the leech, outside of afk checks, or maybe some other content invovlement checks, there is no way to stop. And I have not come up with any bright ideas on how to fix leeching at this time. So don't offer any.
As for Eddie. Maybe the three of them work so well to gether that they actually get to know each other, and start teaming up together more often in the future. Which adds to not only his experience, but to the other two as well. And the three of them can then possibly work together to get the unprepared get ready for the next effort.
All things good for the game. Why you think this is bad is beyond me.
As for not PUGing. If I don't know enough people to actually form a team, then you are telling me to quit playing the game.
I am not frustrated by the above scenario as I don't find working with people and failing as bad. I only find that one person able to ruin the fun for others as frustrating. Failing is not my problem, Failing because somebody deliberately wasted my time is a problem. One that I want to fix.
There is not plenty of time, hence the nature of a timer. A timer really does mean you have limited time. And it has always been my direct experience that anything with a timer on it means others will not talk. There too busy trying to to kill everything before fails timer ends to respond.
You can maintain the same level of difficulty by removing timers and turning it into some other thing. Like X number of people must shoot Y before Z happens. It's not that difficult to come up with options that don't involve a timers. Lots of other MMO's are capable of doing this. STO is capable of it too.
STO should not be a job. That is my point. In a job, if I have deadline, it's on me. And no other person can keep me from meeting the deadline. And in a job, if I am reliant on others to do certain portions, and they are not making those goals I set for them, I remove them from the project and get someone else. STO doesn't have that mechanic in it right now. Nor do I think that they should add it, because that opens itself up to other forms of trolling and frustrations to people.
I am happy to see that we at least agree on one thing...:)
What you're asking for already exists, it's called normal!!!
Otherwise, there is no point of playing, as their is no way to lose!
No timers, well cannot lose due to time!
No fail mechanics, well cannot lose due to well.....failing!
It's like asking them to take the game of baseball and, get rid of the time to play, get rid of innings, get rid of strikes and outs.
What you want, is a game of baseball, where the ball is continuously pitched, till you hit it and, than told to take you base, rinse and repeat for everyone.
A complete mockery of ANY game imo and, one that shouldn't happen to this MMORPG!!!
And, yes please do name these other mmo's that do, because I will be sure to never play one of those EVER!
The proportional stuff? Didn't matter, did it? Cause paxdawn was talking about Marks and you were talking about Tech (and sisteric is talking about R&D mats)...and outside of your AGK over a series of posts there (where you repeatedly said he had entitlement issues)...the basic gist of it is...
Why can't proportianl rewards system be applied to all three things? Yes, my torch has been the mats. But in general, I would like proportiional rewards for all things; be it mats, marks or gear, get applied to all difficulty based content. It would only make sense to do this.
And the proportional wa simportant to his statement. Because he wanted the rewards be present at all levels, with harder content getting more or better version of the reward. Basically, paxdawn was claiming that the rewards are proportional, and huskerklg was claiming that the rewards are exclusive at Advanced and Elite levels. And in the case of the VR mats and Elite Marks, he is correct. You can't get even 1 VR Mat or Elite Mark in Normals, making them exclusive to the Advanced and Elite queues. Not only that, but the Elites are the only way you can get the Salvage R&D mat. So very exclusive. And barred from mosty crafters because of the requirements to complete Elite.
Why can't proportianl rewards system be applied to all three things? Yes, my torch has been the mats. But in general, I would like proportiional rewards for all things; be it mats, marks or gear, get applied to all difficulty based content. It would only make sense to do this.
And the proportional wa simportant to his statement. Because he wanted the rewards be present at all levels, with harder content getting more or better version of the reward. Basically, paxdawn was claiming that the rewards are proportional, and huskerklg was claiming that the rewards are exclusive at Advanced and Elite levels. And in the case of the VR mats and Elite Marks, he is correct. You can't get even 1 VR Mat or Elite Mark in Normals, making them exclusive to the Advanced and Elite queues. Not only that, but the Elites are the only way you can get the Salvage R&D mat. So very exclusive. And barred from mosty crafters because of the requirements to complete Elite.
Because those reward items, are you know, rewards for harder difficulty and, not laugh out loud easy peasy normals to farm in!!!
Simple no?
What you're asking for, is to hand leechers a golden ticket, to Willy Wonkas Wacky Wild World of Winning, just for showing up!!!
No Eddie is not "carrying them". Eddie is helping them learn what is expected.
Something they should have known before showing up. And since they are not bringing what is expected...Eddie is carrying them. There is no rationalizing around it. Eddie is carrying them.
The Team, as a whole, is learning thier own limitations and what they can, and cannot do, to efficient get the content done. The three are finding ways to work together to accomplish the goals. Each are doing the part as best as they can.
With Eddie carrying the load since he's the only one that showed up prepared.
As for the leech, outside of afk checks, or maybe some other content invovlement checks, there is no way to stop. And I have not come up with any bright ideas on how to fix leeching at this time. So don't offer any.
It's almost impossible to address it, because of the variety of gameplay involved...which results in thresholds being set so low they might as well not be there. Other suggestions tend to open themselves to massive amounts of trolling.
As for Eddie. Maybe the three of them work so well to gether that they actually get to know each other, and start teaming up together more often in the future. Which adds to not only his experience, but to the other two as well. And the three of them can then possibly work together to get the unprepared get ready for the next effort.
Ah, so Eddie's a potential cult leader with a savior complex that's going to form the Church of Eddie and have his disciples spread the good word?
All things good for the game. Why you think this is bad is beyond me.
It's Eddie's choice. There's nothing stopping Eddie from trying to talk to folks at the end of a failed run either, is there? It doesn't automatically kick folks out...they have to leave. So if Eddie has some suggestions...and if folks are open to those suggestions instead of just ripping Eddie's head off.
As for not PUGing. If I don't know enough people to actually form a team, then you are telling me to quit playing the game.
Channel runs are usually channel pugs. They're still pugs. They're not premades. The difference is simply that the folks are generally prepared, not going to leech, and aren't going to troll. It's not about not pugging...it's still going to be pugging.
[ChannelWhatever] Eddie@nemesis: Anybody interested in running ISA? T-ISA.
[ChannelWhatever] Susie@generations: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Frankie@undiscovered: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Dottie@wrath: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Mikey@search: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Lorrie@frontier: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Eddie@nemesis: T-ISA Full. Sorry, Lorrie - will catch you on the next run!
It's still pugging. It's just not public pugging which is subject to the folks looking to TRIBBLE up runs.
I am not frustrated by the above scenario as I don't find working with people and failing as bad. I only find that one person able to ruin the fun for others as frustrating. Failing is not my problem, Failing because somebody deliberately wasted my time is a problem. One that I want to fix.
A single troll can cause that problem. A single leech or a single person unprepared isn't likely to cause that problem, depending on the rest of the group.
It's the gamble one takes while hitting up public queues. Hoping that there are no trolls while hoping there aren't too many leeches or folks just not prepared for the content.
Up until about a week ago (or two at this point), I was running at well over a 90% success rate on my public queue runs. In the past week and a bit, I've had more unsuccessful runs than I had all year up until that point.
I figure it comes down to several things:
1) Simply the continuing case of more folks that are capable having gone to channel runs - it's been going on like that for years; which has made it more and more difficult as time goes along - reducing the capable pool, so to speak.
2) The brutal lag.
3) Folks that have given up even trying to do runs because of the lag reducing the capable pool.
4) Folks showing up with their Delta Recruits unprepared and looking to be carried by that capable pool that simply no longer exists in a sufficient amount to cover them all.
5) I'm not flying a carry build...I'm running with Meena and not Willard. Willard spams heals, grabs aggro, debuffs, buffs, does crowd control, etc, etc, etc...he can't solo stuff, but outside of trolls and a team full of leeches, he can generally carry folks. Meena's not built that way. I was tired of flying that way...it wasn't helping anybody - helping them get stuff, sure, but they weren't bothering to get better.
Why can't proportianl rewards system be applied to all three things? Yes, my torch has been the mats. But in general, I would like proportiional rewards for all things; be it mats, marks or gear, get applied to all difficulty based content. It would only make sense to do this.
And the proportional wa simportant to his statement. Because he wanted the rewards be present at all levels, with harder content getting more or better version of the reward. Basically, paxdawn was claiming that the rewards are proportional, and huskerklg was claiming that the rewards are exclusive at Advanced and Elite levels. And in the case of the VR mats and Elite Marks, he is correct. You can't get even 1 VR Mat or Elite Mark in Normals, making them exclusive to the Advanced and Elite queues. Not only that, but the Elites are the only way you can get the Salvage R&D mat. So very exclusive. And barred from mosty crafters because of the requirements to complete Elite.
There are in game solutions for all the stuff. Either improve self or team to get to advance without changing mechanics or buy stuff at the exchange.
We already know your answer to this like all those same people who complain about this thread issue, its simply flat rejection. So, it is by personal choice that you dont get these stuff. And because of that personal choice, you want the devs to change mechanics.
We have been consistent of our stand of solution of ingame mechanics like you guys have been consistent in your stand by flatly rejecting ingame mechanics in order to change the mechanics.
I have offered some suggestions what kind of options I would like to see, Biggest on my list for me, would be soloable content that will give you the VR mats. I have also suggested put in R&D DOffing missions to get those VR Mats too.
As I mentioned earlier though, have you considered the effect that would have on the game economy? I know you said it's not something you do, but that doesn't mean that other people don't.
Removing Fail conditions will removing Trolling. One person can't fail the mission. Another thing I have suggested.
Except it doesn't. Trolling existed long before fail conditions. That's a form of trolling, but there has been all kinds of trolling that has taken place over the years.
I have suggested doing things to promote teamwork, yes. I ahve not said anything concrete because as I have so far been treated in this thread by my other suggestion, I knew that such staements would either be ignored, derided and put down as some sort of 'self-entitled change' for changes sake. So I resigned myself to generalites in this discussion jsut to avoid any more of that treatment here than I am already getting.
But that doesn't answer my question...what content requires teamwork of any sort that one would need more than a few seconds to discuss it?
These goals, that I have are attainable and reasonable in EVERY OTHER MMO that I have ever played. STO should not just for the those you have more time and money and physcial skill than the average person can be reasonably be expected to have.
Have you named a single one of these other MMOs yet? I don't recall.
Why can't proportianl rewards system be applied to all three things? Yes, my torch has been the mats. But in general, I would like proportiional rewards for all things; be it mats, marks or gear, get applied to all difficulty based content. It would only make sense to do this.
It devalues all rewards by doing so, like it has already devalued anything so far in the game that has been easy to get.
And the proportional wa simportant to his statement. Because he wanted the rewards be present at all levels, with harder content getting more or better version of the reward. Basically, paxdawn was claiming that the rewards are proportional, and huskerklg was claiming that the rewards are exclusive at Advanced and Elite levels. And in the case of the VR mats and Elite Marks, he is correct. You can't get even 1 VR Mat or Elite Mark in Normals, making them exclusive to the Advanced and Elite queues. Not only that, but the Elites are the only way you can get the Salvage R&D mat. So very exclusive. And barred from mosty crafters because of the requirements to complete Elite.
Right, but with that...exclusivity doesn't have anything to do with entitlement. People doing something are entitled to those that don't do it...while those that think they deserve things without doing something are demonstrating entitlement issues.
For somebody that talks so much about the teamwork thing and community building, I just don't get why you think everybody should be doing everything - while ignoring the effect that would have on the community.
It's at odds. So much of what you describe comes down to wanting a single player game.
Solo missions to get all the rewards. No need to interact with any form of community market where folks doing different things can get what they want.
It's almost starting to feel like a cliche discussion of communism, socialism, and capitalism.
What you're asking for already exists, it's called normal!!!
Otherwise, there is no point of playing, as their is no way to lose!
No timers, well cannot lose due to time!
No fail mechanics, well cannot lose due to well.....failing!
It's like asking them to take the game of baseball and, get rid of the time to play, get rid of innings, get rid of strikes and outs.
What you want, is a game of baseball, where the ball is continuously pitched, till you hit it and, than told to take you base, rinse and repeat for everyone.
A complete mockery of ANY game imo and, one that shouldn't happen to this MMORPG!!!
And, yes please do name these other mmo's that do, because I will be sure to never play one of those EVER!
No fail mechanics means no trolling by one player, wasting the time of 4 other players.
No timers means the team has the time to keep making changes to thier plans to acheive the goal.
But unlike baseball, one player can ruin the entire game for on purpose. And you can't bench them from harming the game any further. Right now it's like if the first guy up to bat doesn't hit the ball the game is over, the other team wins. You get nothing.
Just because there is no fail mechanic or timers doesn't mean the content is easy to complete. There are many ways that content can be hard, completelable with enough effort, and progressable.
As for MMO's that don't have timers and fails, WOW, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Wizardry Online, Elder Scrols Online, Legends, Star Legends, Celtic Heroes and D&D Online for what I can name off the top of my head. Not all of which I play any more for various reasons. In fact, I don't remember there being timers or fails in SWTOR either. All very engaging games in thier own right, And all have various good points and bad points about them.
No fail mechanics means no trolling by one player, wasting the time of 4 other players.
No timers means the team has the time to keep making changes to thier plans to acheive the goal.
But unlike baseball, one player can ruin the entire game for on purpose. And you can't bench them from harming the game any further. Right now it's like if the first guy up to bat doesn't hit the ball the game is over, the other team wins. You get nothing.
Just because there is no fail mechanic or timers doesn't mean the content is easy to complete. There are many ways that content can be hard, completelable with enough effort, and progressable.
As for MMO's that don't have timers and fails, WOW, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Wizardry Online, Elder Scrols Online, Legends, Star Legends, Celtic Heroes and D&D Online for what I can name off the top of my head. Not all of which I play any more for various reasons. In fact, I don't remember there being timers or fails in SWTOR either. All very engaging games in thier own right, And all have various good points and bad points about them.
Sorry, but DDO has fail mechanics an timers so, you full of it on this one, because I have played this game a lot.
Baseball the way you want it, wouldn't have the ability for ANYONE to ruin the game for ANYONE, unless they decided to pick a fight maybe.
And, just like in RL baseball, yes a player can be benched!!!
Haven't played any of the others and, don't ever plan to now knowing this TRIBBLE.
And, yes SWTOR does have fails with timers!!!
Yes, no timers and no chance for a failure, makes the game extremely too easy.
I mean, imagine if you played super Mario brothers and, there was infinite lives, with no timer to reach the end, what possible challenge could there be left, other than keep trying to reach the end of the stage?
Wow, you made it to the end of the stage, here's your freaking cookie!!!
You're a winner!!!
:rolleyes:
I guess you like games, that simulate a bunch of rats in a maze, with the cheese waiting at the end and, the only way they cannot possibly get it, is for them to die?
Because those reward items, are you know, rewards for harder difficulty and, not laugh out loud easy peasy normals to farm in!!!
Simple no?
What you're asking for, is to hand leechers a golden ticket, to Willy Wonkas Wacky Wild World of Winning, just for showing up!!!
Leechers can do that at any level of content. SO putting it at lower levels in smaller quantities doesn't change anything. And if they wanted to leech normal, they are going to do it now anyways. Again no real change. Untill some mechanics can be put in to root out leeches is in place, whatever that might be, leechers will exist no matter what.
No fail mechanics means no trolling by one player, wasting the time of 4 other players.
No timers means the team has the time to keep making changes to thier plans to acheive the goal.
But unlike baseball, one player can ruin the entire game for on purpose. And you can't bench them from harming the game any further. Right now it's like if the first guy up to bat doesn't hit the ball the game is over, the other team wins. You get nothing.
Just because there is no fail mechanic or timers doesn't mean the content is easy to complete. There are many ways that content can be hard, completelable with enough effort, and progressable.
As for MMO's that don't have timers and fails, WOW, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Wizardry Online, Elder Scrols Online, Legends, Star Legends, Celtic Heroes and D&D Online for what I can name off the top of my head. Not all of which I play any more for various reasons. In fact, I don't remember there being timers or fails in SWTOR either. All very engaging games in thier own right, And all have various good points and bad points about them.
Leechers can do that at any level of content. SO putting it at lower levels in smaller quantities doesn't change anything. And if they wanted to leech normal, they are going to do it now anyways. Again no real change. Untill some mechanics can be put in to root out leeches is in place, whatever that might be, leechers will exist no matter what.
Yes, they can do it at any level but, how easy is it for them to get those rewards, when there is a chance of the mission failing and, rewarding nothing?
As for normal, than let them stay in there doing normal but, in no way should the advanced/elite rewards be made available to them and, most certainly not people unwilling to earn them like others do.
But, we aren't talking directly about leechers, we are talking about people wanting to get those advanced/elite rewards and, not being any better than those who do leech!!!
Because, they don't want to actually put the effort into a real challenge, having to actually face omg lol pressure in a game to challenge them!
Albert is unprepared.
Betty is a leech.
Chuck is a troll.
Deborah is trying but just isn't quite ready.
Eddie is prepared, not a leech nor a troll.
How can Eddie's problem be fixed?
Albert is vague. I have no idea what you mean.
Betty is already defeated by the AFK mechanics.
Chuck is a serious problem with the STF design. ISA is the big one here and needs redesigned to prevent Chucks. There is no other solution.
Deobrah is not an issue as long as the objectives aren't too tight, yet she can't learn she is not quite ready either.
Eddie is victim of a bad system if that is his usual draw when he queues up. So why aren't there more Eddies queuing?
That is what needs answered and fixed. Are poor rewards keeping people out? Are objectives badly balanced and inappropriately difficult? Are enemies scaling/buffing too much? Are they simply not fun because the fail chance makes them frustrating? Is the difference in the way normal is played vs advanced too big because of these changes that it causes people to not actually know how to play it when they move up the tier?
These are questions that need to be answered so the problems can be fixed. Throwing out a ridiculous suggestion that Eddie not PUG doesn't solve the issues that every next Eddie will face.
Sorry, but DDO has fail mechanics an timers so, you full of it on this one, because I have played this game a lot.
Baseball the way you want it, wouldn't have the ability for ANYONE to ruin the game for ANYONE, unless they decided to pick a fight maybe.
And, just like in RL baseball, yes a player can be benched!!!
Haven't played any of the others and, don't ever plan to now knowing this TRIBBLE.
And, yes SWTOR does have fails with timers!!!
Yes, no timers and no chance for a failure, makes the game extremely too easy.
I mean, imagine if you played super Mario brothers and, there was infinite lives, with no timer to reach the end, what possible challenge could there be left, other than keep trying to reach the end of the stage?
Wow, you made it to the end of the stage, here's your freaking cookie!!!
You're a winner!!!
:rolleyes:
I guess you like games, that simulate a bunch of rats in a maze, with the cheese waiting at the end and, the only way they cannot possibly get it, is for them to die?
DDO didn't have those in the content I played. I left the game when they set there FTP plan to control content and leveling.
And I said I didn't remember there being any fails and timers in SWTOR. Maybe the things I did never had those. But there is nothing I recall doing that limited me in content in such manner. Again their FTP model I didn't like, so don't play it anymore.
And No timers and no fails don't mean easy. WOW's mechanics is very good in respect that you can go on a dungeon or raid and wipe constantly. For days even. No timers. No fails. Just the fact that you not getting past the mechanic and so die. And once everybody rezzes, heals up, and repairs, they discuss what went wrong, what went right, and what to change or do differently to get things done and start once more. No one in there right mind will ever say that at level content is easy, or that you will complete it every time you attempt it UNTIL you develope the strat to get past the mechanic. Once it's discovered then you need enough people to do the right thing and not die to complete the kill. It's not easy till you learn the mechanic, then it's not frustrating to complete once you do know. And while one person can cause a wipe, you can vote to kick the person out of the group and try again.
STO you cannot kick anyone out of a STF. You also cannot disable thier ship or person so that they can't troll the group. There is nothing you can do to keep one person from hosing a run and causing a fail to the entire group. And I am not saying to put in Kicking options, because that is open to abuse in other ways. So tell me how you can bench a player in a PUG?
And you Super Mario Analogy is just that to me, freaking ridiculous game. It's not fun in that I have no personalization options or alternate content because the game is linear and limited by it's very nature. It's too simple and easy for me and so don't play it. Or games like it. Besides, within it's gameplay, there is nothing another player can do to make you fail. Because there are no other players. So I don't think you analogy pairs well with this topic.
There are in game solutions for all the stuff. Either improve self or team to get to advance without changing mechanics or buy stuff at the exchange.
We already know your answer to this like all those same people who complain about this thread issue, its simply flat rejection. So, it is by personal choice that you dont get these stuff. And because of that personal choice, you want the devs to change mechanics.
We have been consistent of our stand of solution of ingame mechanics like you guys have been consistent in your stand by flatly rejecting ingame mechanics in order to change the mechanics.
Have said it before (maybe in this thread, maybe the other thread, who knows in how many countless threads over the years)...
Some players want something. They take a look at the different ways they can go about getting it. They get it.
Some players want something. They complain about it on the forums.
Say I want Salvaged Technology, since it was one of the items brought up. Okay, so that's generally locked behind running Elite queues. Okay then, say I'm not up to doing Elite queues. Is there another way for me to get it? Aha, there it is on the Exchange. Okay then, is there anything that I do while I'm playing that will allow me to generate Energy Credits to get that Salvaged Tech? Anything that I might be able to get and sell, something that somebody else might want, so I can get the EC to get what I want and they can spend their EC to get what they want? Or hrmmm, just what am I looking to use that Salvaged Tech for in the first place, yeah? Oh yeah, the Experimental Upgrades. Hrmm, I can get a Beam Experimental 674k EC while the two Salvaged I'd need to make that are going to cost me 410k each...and that's before the other components needed, yadda, yadda, yadda. But wait, if I've got the skill...can do the crit thing along the way...that would change things, yeah? So let's see what my best options are right now...
Say it's not a case of wanting those ETUs to use, but I want to sell them for EC so I can get something else that I want - say a ship, a trait, DOFFs, weapons, whatever else is being sold on the Exchange, eh? Gets back into what skills and so forth I've got, right?
Okay then, but let's say that Salvaged was available in Normal, more available in Advanced, and even more available in Elite...say Salvaged was even available in solo missions, right?
Well then, several things happen...
1) Can forget about selling ETUs to buy anything cause they'll be worthless. Them being worthless will make STUs worthless, so forget about selling them. The majority of R&D simply becomes worthless.
2) Everybody will have a much easier time upgrading everything, meaning everybody will have a much easier time running everything, which means all the rewards will be easier to get, and that we've just gone through and deflated the value of everything else too. Doesn't mean prices of certain things will come down though - cause amongst all that inflation taking place, those still rare items will still be rare and their prices will reflect that.
3) The best way then to make EC for things will revolve around buying Zen. It won't be around converting Dil to Zen, cause the inflation will take place there as well - there will be so much Dil around that it just won't be worth it. So folks will have to buy Zen to get things like Master Keys and other Zen items that will maintain their value...cause the items, Lock Box, and so forth will have maintained their rarity.
But yeah, who cares about the various ways one could go about getting things if they can't run Elite (even though working toward being able to would be another option), and let's just sabotage the Hell out of the whole game, yeah?
Gets frustrating, yeah?
Oh well...heh, still think it's a trip how much the 2x Major Research Boosts cost. Noticed that while looking through the other things, need to go check my other characters to see just how many of those I've got.
Yes, they can do it at any level but, how easy is it for them to get those rewards, when there is a chance of the mission failing and, rewarding nothing?
As for normal, than let them stay in there doing normal but, in no way should the advanced/elite rewards be made available to them and, most certainly not people unwilling to earn them like others do.
But, we aren't talking directly about leechers, we are talking about people wanting to get those advanced/elite rewards and, not being any better than those who do leech!!!
Because, they don't want to actually put the effort into a real challenge, having to actually face omg lol pressure in a game to challenge them!
Why would a leecher care. They certainly don't care enough to make sure the effort succeeds. It just meens they just queue up again alter and try to leech one more time. Leeching will occur no matter what. And right now, even with fails and timers, leechers run Advanced and go through many fails before they get their win. They must, because I see a lot of leechers in my fail runs. And they seem to be back time and time again anyways. So leechers and fails isn't going to cut for an argument with me.
But if we make VR mats available if you complete all the optionals in normal, you are going to foster more teamwork, and help people get better gear to get better prepared for Advanced. And when they think they are ready for Advance, they can try. If they do well, then they are ready. If they don't do well, well they go back to Normals and keep working on getting better at the optionals, better skilled and better gear to be ready for advanced. And with Normals feeding you what you need to be better at Advanced, then it becomes intuitive as to why you should do things this way across all content.
DDO didn't have those in the content I played. I left the game when they set there FTP plan to control content and leveling.
And I said I didn't remember there being any fails and timers in SWTOR. Maybe the things I did never had those. But there is nothing I recall doing that limited me in content in such manner. Again their FTP model I didn't like, so don't play it anymore.
And No timers and no fails don't mean easy. WOW's mechanics is very good in respect that you can go on a dungeon or raid and wipe constantly. For days even. No timers. No fails. Just the fact that you not getting past the mechanic and so die. And once everybody rezzes, heals up, and repairs, they discuss what went wrong, what went right, and what to change or do differently to get things done and start once more. No one in there right mind will ever say that at level content is easy, or that you will complete it every time you attempt it UNTIL you develope the strat to get past the mechanic. Once it's discovered then you need enough people to do the right thing and not die to complete the kill. It's not easy till you learn the mechanic, then it's not frustrating to complete once you do know. And while one person can cause a wipe, you can vote to kick the person out of the group and try again.
STO you cannot kick anyone out of a STF. You also cannot disable thier ship or person so that they can't troll the group. There is nothing you can do to keep one person from hosing a run and causing a fail to the entire group. And I am not saying to put in Kicking options, because that is open to abuse in other ways. So tell me how you can bench a player in a PUG?
And you Super Mario Analogy is just that to me, freaking ridiculous game. It's not fun in that I have no personalization options or alternate content because the game is linear and limited by it's very nature. It's too simple and easy for me and so don't play it. Or games like it. Besides, within it's gameplay, there is nothing another player can do to make you fail. Because there are no other players. So I don't think you analogy pairs well with this topic.
Wow, WOW sound like a total POS MMO imo and, I am glad I never had the chance to play it!
Winning thru attrition, is utterly the worst winner mentality, I could ever see a game incorporate!
It's like when I would watch my father, play military madness over and over again.
Once he learned the pattern for defeating the enemy, it became too easy, because the same pattern works every time, the game doesn't alter its pattern at all, like playing a game of chess with an utter simple pattern AI.
I asked myself, what is the point in playing it, if all you are going to do, is win every time with no actual challenge, why not maybe oh try a different pattern?
And, this is what WOW, as you mentioned, pans out to become imo, once you have established the exact pattern needed for success, due to no pressure from time constraints or failure possibility.
Lame!!!
And, super Mario brothers is a fun game, but I see you are the type, that doesn't like games that actually pressure players into teamwork, but instead encourage social cannot lose no pressure or challenge actually involved games.
Unless your idea of a challenge, is Krunk the caveman, figuring out how to breath challenging!
Have said it before (maybe in this thread, maybe the other thread, who knows in how many countless threads over the years)...
Some players want something. They take a look at the different ways they can go about getting it. They get it.
Some players want something. They complain about it on the forums.
Say I want Salvaged Technology, since it was one of the items brought up. Okay, so that's generally locked behind running Elite queues. Okay then, say I'm not up to doing Elite queues. Is there another way for me to get it? Aha, there it is on the Exchange. Okay then, is there anything that I do while I'm playing that will allow me to generate Energy Credits to get that Salvaged Tech? Anything that I might be able to get and sell, something that somebody else might want, so I can get the EC to get what I want and they can spend their EC to get what they want? Or hrmmm, just what am I looking to use that Salvaged Tech for in the first place, yeah? Oh yeah, the Experimental Upgrades. Hrmm, I can get a Beam Experimental 674k EC while the two Salvaged I'd need to make that are going to cost me 410k each...and that's before the other components needed, yadda, yadda, yadda. But wait, if I've got the skill...can do the crit thing along the way...that would change things, yeah? So let's see what my best options are right now...
Say it's not a case of wanting those ETUs to use, but I want to sell them for EC so I can get something else that I want - say a ship, a trait, DOFFs, weapons, whatever else is being sold on the Exchange, eh? Gets back into what skills and so forth I've got, right?
Okay then, but let's say that Salvaged was available in Normal, more available in Advanced, and even more available in Elite...say Salvaged was even available in solo missions, right?
Well then, several things happen...
1) Can forget about selling ETUs to buy anything cause they'll be worthless. Them being worthless will make STUs worthless, so forget about selling them. The majority of R&D simply becomes worthless.
2) Everybody will have a much easier time upgrading everything, meaning everybody will have a much easier time running everything, which means all the rewards will be easier to get, and that we've just gone through and deflated the value of everything else too. Doesn't mean prices of certain things will come down though - cause amongst all that inflation taking place, those still rare items will still be rare and their prices will reflect that.
3) The best way then to make EC for things will revolve around buying Zen. It won't be around converting Dil to Zen, cause the inflation will take place there as well - there will be so much Dil around that it just won't be worth it. So folks will have to buy Zen to get things like Master Keys and other Zen items that will maintain their value...cause the items, Lock Box, and so forth will have maintained their rarity.
But yeah, who cares about the various ways one could go about getting things if they can't run Elite (even though working toward being able to would be another option), and let's just sabotage the Hell out of the whole game, yeah?
Gets frustrating, yeah?
Oh well...heh, still think it's a trip how much the 2x Major Research Boosts cost. Noticed that while looking through the other things, need to go check my other characters to see just how many of those I've got.
Then suggest something that limits trolling, provides options for people who don't have the time to make EC, and works for people that don't have a large enough friends list to form teams.
Like I said before, I am not an economist. I find the whole exchange game boring. So boring, that I sleep is better than figuring that stuff out. If you think that proving those alternate ways will crash the economy, then suggests modifications that will limit that effect and still open up ways for people with limited options.
And making the stuff available through solo content can be controlled. You can put the mission on a 20 hour cool down, which will certain limit the impact that it has on the game, and still give people another option.
It could mean several things and even a combination of those things. Albert might have no clue what the content is about, what needs to be done, and doesn't bother reading the objectives/etc that are there. Albert might be showing up in a boat that's doing 1-3k DPS. All sorts of things...where a person simply isn't prepared to do the content.
Chuck is a serious problem with the STF design. ISA is the big one here and needs redesigned to prevent Chucks. There is no other solution.
There are actually several things where a single player can just royally TRIBBLE a group over. I'd rather Cryptic focused on addressing all the trollable actions one can take in a run than simply addressing that a trollable action can cause a fail - cause the folks can still troll the rewards and the time it takes to get stuff done.
Really just wish they'd make that a priority and then take a look at the rest. I haven't seen anybody on either side of the discussions in this thread disagree on the trolling (sure, there's the difference between the troll->fail and troll->rewards/time; but nobody's defending trolling)...
Deobrah is not an issue as long as the objectives aren't too tight, yet she can't learn she is not quite ready either.
That's another point...the game itself doesn't quite give folks that feedback.
Joe All-Star, Kim All-Star, Larry All-Star, Monique All-Star, and Deborah end up teamed together...Deborah might be left thinking that she's doing far better than she is. But when she ends up on a team with 3-4 folks playing at her level and things go to Hell in a handbasket...they're all going to run into a sour experience, eh?
Possibly made worse if some of those of folks have false impressions of their past contributions and turn on one another.
Some sort of private feedback, I'm not a fan of public feedback (don't get why folks post the numbers from parses in team unless everybody asked for them and the like), would help players know better what they're doing.
There have been times I've thought I was rocking...I wasn't. There have been times where I thought I needed to apologize to the group for my performance...but there was no need.
One shouldn't have to run an external program to get some better feedback on how one is doing in a team environment.
That is what needs answered and fixed. Are poor rewards keeping people out? Are objectives badly balanced and inappropriately difficult? Are enemies scaling/buffing too much? Are they simply not fun because the fail chance makes them frustrating? Is the difference in the way normal is played vs advanced too big because of these changes that it causes people to not actually know how to play it when they move up the tier?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Albert's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Betty's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Chuck's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Deborah's when there are multiples of them?
Is it because Eddie can avoid them by doing channel runs?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the lag?
Is it because Eddie simply doesn't want anything from the queue?
Is it because Eddie finds it more enjoyable to get things elsewhere that he wants?
Is it because Eddie is there but he's playing one of the other queues because there are so many queues?
Is it because Eddie has done the same thing for so long now that he is just bored?
Is it because Eddie doesn't have the time to run them anymore?
The list can go on and on.
Each Eddie's going to have his reason or reasons that he's not running something.
These are questions that need to be answered so the problems can be fixed. Throwing out a ridiculous suggestion that Eddie not PUG doesn't solve the issues that every next Eddie will face.
It's a place where Eddie can go and possibly still enjoy the game, while expressing his concerns to Cryptic about his issues...his issues...which might not be the same issues that Albert and Deborah have and where what Albert and Deborah want might not make anything better for Eddie.
Why would a leecher care. They certainly don't care enough to make sure the effort succeeds. It just meens they just queue up again alter and try to leech one more time. Leeching will occur no matter what. And right now, even with fails and timers, leechers run Advanced and go through many fails before they get their win. They must, because I see a lot of leechers in my fail runs. And they seem to be back time and time again anyways. So leechers and fails isn't going to cut for an argument with me.
But if we make VR mats available if you complete all the optionals in normal, you are going to foster more teamwork, and help people get better gear to get better prepared for Advanced. And when they think they are ready for Advance, they can try. If they do well, then they are ready. If they don't do well, well they go back to Normals and keep working on getting better at the optionals, better skilled and better gear to be ready for advanced. And with Normals feeding you what you need to be better at Advanced, then it becomes intuitive as to why you should do things this way across all content.
Why would a leecher care? You really have to ask? Because they can get the rewards [advanced/elite with your dumb suggestion], just by showing up since the mission cannot technically ever fail!!!
At least with the fail system in place, could take them hours - days even to get what they wanted and, it even forces some leechers to contribute some. [albeit so small as to avoid an afk penalty or, to make sure it doesn't fail]
We already had mention from many people [you included I believe], that normals don't prepare people for advanced. [which is a complete load of TRIBBLE]
Fostering teamwork, comes from players wanting and encouraging it but, a good majority of pug groups don't really care and, would sooner just get it done for the rewards.
And, people now who are prepared or, think they are for advanced, do advanced. But, many who are not ready for it or, are not prepared, keep doing it instead of going back to normal, unless they just figure that is the only way to get anywhere.
Normals feed you what you need as it is in marks, because quite a bit of your rep gear, can be had by marks alone and, there isn't even a need for that in advanced really.
Normals are not required, to feed you VR R&D mats, because again, nothing you craft, is actually needed for advanced.
Your comments, keep boiling down to I want but, I don't want to actually work for it and, comes off sounding more and more, like a freaking leecher!!!
Comments
Ah, so Eddie carries them. Good plan...well, for the two folks that shouldn't have been there in the first place and the guy leeching. :rolleyes:
Not only does Eddie carry them...but he does so for fewer rewards in the process.
Seriously, it's literally one of the reasons that paxdawn's suggestion if one is having a problem in pugs not to pug is a solution. If one can't accept dealing with the completely unprepared, not quite prepared (which is fine when others are but not in that given scenario), leeches, and trolls...then the solution is clear. Don't put yourself in that situation when you can still enjoy that same content in other ways.
Again, there is plenty of time to talk things thru, even while doing the mission, if you cannot accomplish this nor, can other's, than they obviously either need more practice and/or, maybe play another game or difficulty setting on this one.
Because people do and, can do all of what you disagree with, very easily!
You can't maintain the same difficulty, by removing the timers!
Doing so, just makes the mission a game of attrition than, where all that is required to win, is time alone!!!
However, I will agree that failure on account of one or more persons, does get annoying but, it is preventable by the same players who are causing it in the first place.
I mean, what's the point of your job giving you a deadline for a project, if the deadline is an eternity?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
No. Not correct.
What I want is to beable to do the content I enjoy doing without having one person getting to take all the fun out of it and remove any chance of progression. And on my limited time frame, push the time tables of a couple months out to 6 or more. Because they get some kick out of ruining the game for others.
It's not a matter of finishing the game. But a matter of completing what should be attainable goals to open up other options of play.
My fun is from setting goals and attaining them. It's hard to accomplish 'attainable' goals when the game is setup to allow one person ruin the fun for 4 others, no matter what they do.
SO I am asking for them to either change the mechanics of the content to remove the trolling, and change the content to promote teamwork, or put in other alternate content, that isn't about money, to attain the same rewards at the same level of difficulty.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
No. I have not been doing that. I don't want to change the ENTIRE game for my playstyle. I have have never said to remove the options that others have presented. Only that I want additional options to be added to accomedate those that can't or on't avail themeselves of the other options.
If people want to take the EC route to get everything they want, great. Enjoy your game.
If people want to dil farm. Great! Enjoy your game.
If people want to only run the content in pre-mades. Great. Enjoy your game.
If people want to spend real life money to get what they want in this game. Great! Enjoy your game.
You want to PUG content and carry everyone. Great! Enjoy your game.
But if a solo person wants to do content, and not get limited by others, so that they can attain their goals. Options need to to be provided, because that is not there now. SO either the content has to be changed to kill trolling and alllow people to give reasonable effort for reasonable rewards, or new content added to allow for an alternate method to get to the same place without it being trollable by others.
So no, I am not trying to force everyone to play my way. I am trying to find a way for more routes to the same end goal to opened up. That people will not be forced to play the current limited ways that are not an actual option to every person.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
But you are not offering options, you're suggesting changes. That's very much the case of contradicting what you said about options.
But you haven't made any suggestions that remove one person's ability to affect you, and you've ignored the options that already exist so that one person cannot affect you.
Other options of play?
Then suggest something that actually addresses that problem.
But again, you haven't suggested a thing that removes trolling.
You talk about promoting teamwork, but you don't talk about them adding any sort of content that would require teamwork - it takes more teamwork to go to the grocery store than anything in this game. If you want to promote teamwork, talk about some content that would require it.
You can get the VR R&D mats with less difficulty and without spending any money.
Maybe they have to be a wee bit realistic about their goals and their expectations.
That claim was full of it, especially from YOU, and not what he said.
Neither are you. Your suggestion are in essence go grind out other parts of the game and don't play the queued missions.
Really? Let's see...you say paxdawn has entitlement issues. I ask about your definition there. paxdawn comments on you making up words. Just how are you having a difficult time following that?
So wait, my not offering options is providing various options?
I'm starting to feel bad. You've got some sort of cognitive issue, eh?
I already rebutted your BS response given the context which you ignored.
And he is entitled. He thinks he's the only one that deserves a reward rather than a proportional one. You ignored the proportional context to build your strawman.
So we can chalk up dishonesty as one of your qualities.
No Eddie is not "carrying them". Eddie is helping them learn what is expected. The Team, as a whole, is learning thier own limitations and what they can, and cannot do, to efficient get the content done. The three are finding ways to work together to accomplish the goals. Each are doing the part as best as they can.
As for the leech, outside of afk checks, or maybe some other content invovlement checks, there is no way to stop. And I have not come up with any bright ideas on how to fix leeching at this time. So don't offer any.
As for Eddie. Maybe the three of them work so well to gether that they actually get to know each other, and start teaming up together more often in the future. Which adds to not only his experience, but to the other two as well. And the three of them can then possibly work together to get the unprepared get ready for the next effort.
All things good for the game. Why you think this is bad is beyond me.
As for not PUGing. If I don't know enough people to actually form a team, then you are telling me to quit playing the game.
I am not frustrated by the above scenario as I don't find working with people and failing as bad. I only find that one person able to ruin the fun for others as frustrating. Failing is not my problem, Failing because somebody deliberately wasted my time is a problem. One that I want to fix.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Here's your post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=23740121&postcount=393
It, like almost all of your posts, suffers an extreme amount of AGK going on.
The proportional stuff? Didn't matter, did it? Cause paxdawn was talking about Marks and you were talking about Tech (and sisteric is talking about R&D mats)...and outside of your AGK over a series of posts there (where you repeatedly said he had entitlement issues)...the basic gist of it is...
He has entitlement issues because there are no proportional rewards for non Mark rewards.
But wait...how is that any different than what was questioned? That he has entitlement issues because of believing that rewards should be tied to effort? It doesn't change.
People that put in effort to get stuff, man they got them some damn entitlement issues, right bro? :rolleyes:
There is not plenty of time, hence the nature of a timer. A timer really does mean you have limited time. And it has always been my direct experience that anything with a timer on it means others will not talk. There too busy trying to to kill everything before fails timer ends to respond.
You can maintain the same level of difficulty by removing timers and turning it into some other thing. Like X number of people must shoot Y before Z happens. It's not that difficult to come up with options that don't involve a timers. Lots of other MMO's are capable of doing this. STO is capable of it too.
STO should not be a job. That is my point. In a job, if I have deadline, it's on me. And no other person can keep me from meeting the deadline. And in a job, if I am reliant on others to do certain portions, and they are not making those goals I set for them, I remove them from the project and get someone else. STO doesn't have that mechanic in it right now. Nor do I think that they should add it, because that opens itself up to other forms of trolling and frustrations to people.
I am happy to see that we at least agree on one thing...:)
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I have offered some suggestions what kind of options I would like to see, Biggest on my list for me, would be soloable content that will give you the VR mats. I have also suggested put in R&D DOffing missions to get those VR Mats too.
Removing Fail conditions will removing Trolling. One person can't fail the mission. Another thing I have suggested.
I have suggested doing things to promote teamwork, yes. I ahve not said anything concrete because as I have so far been treated in this thread by my other suggestion, I knew that such staements would either be ignored, derided and put down as some sort of 'self-entitled change' for changes sake. So I resigned myself to generalites in this discussion jsut to avoid any more of that treatment here than I am already getting.
These goals, that I have are attainable and reasonable in EVERY OTHER MMO that I have ever played. STO should not just for the those you have more time and money and physcial skill than the average person can be reasonably be expected to have.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
What you're asking for already exists, it's called normal!!!
Otherwise, there is no point of playing, as their is no way to lose!
No timers, well cannot lose due to time!
No fail mechanics, well cannot lose due to well.....failing!
It's like asking them to take the game of baseball and, get rid of the time to play, get rid of innings, get rid of strikes and outs.
What you want, is a game of baseball, where the ball is continuously pitched, till you hit it and, than told to take you base, rinse and repeat for everyone.
A complete mockery of ANY game imo and, one that shouldn't happen to this MMORPG!!!
And, yes please do name these other mmo's that do, because I will be sure to never play one of those EVER!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Why can't proportianl rewards system be applied to all three things? Yes, my torch has been the mats. But in general, I would like proportiional rewards for all things; be it mats, marks or gear, get applied to all difficulty based content. It would only make sense to do this.
And the proportional wa simportant to his statement. Because he wanted the rewards be present at all levels, with harder content getting more or better version of the reward. Basically, paxdawn was claiming that the rewards are proportional, and huskerklg was claiming that the rewards are exclusive at Advanced and Elite levels. And in the case of the VR mats and Elite Marks, he is correct. You can't get even 1 VR Mat or Elite Mark in Normals, making them exclusive to the Advanced and Elite queues. Not only that, but the Elites are the only way you can get the Salvage R&D mat. So very exclusive. And barred from mosty crafters because of the requirements to complete Elite.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Because those reward items, are you know, rewards for harder difficulty and, not laugh out loud easy peasy normals to farm in!!!
Simple no?
What you're asking for, is to hand leechers a golden ticket, to Willy Wonkas Wacky Wild World of Winning, just for showing up!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Something they should have known before showing up. And since they are not bringing what is expected...Eddie is carrying them. There is no rationalizing around it. Eddie is carrying them.
With Eddie carrying the load since he's the only one that showed up prepared.
It's almost impossible to address it, because of the variety of gameplay involved...which results in thresholds being set so low they might as well not be there. Other suggestions tend to open themselves to massive amounts of trolling.
Ah, so Eddie's a potential cult leader with a savior complex that's going to form the Church of Eddie and have his disciples spread the good word?
It's Eddie's choice. There's nothing stopping Eddie from trying to talk to folks at the end of a failed run either, is there? It doesn't automatically kick folks out...they have to leave. So if Eddie has some suggestions...and if folks are open to those suggestions instead of just ripping Eddie's head off.
Channel runs are usually channel pugs. They're still pugs. They're not premades. The difference is simply that the folks are generally prepared, not going to leech, and aren't going to troll. It's not about not pugging...it's still going to be pugging.
[ChannelWhatever] Eddie@nemesis: Anybody interested in running ISA? T-ISA.
[ChannelWhatever] Susie@generations: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Frankie@undiscovered: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Dottie@wrath: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Mikey@search: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Lorrie@frontier: T-ISA
[ChannelWhatever] Eddie@nemesis: T-ISA Full. Sorry, Lorrie - will catch you on the next run!
It's still pugging. It's just not public pugging which is subject to the folks looking to TRIBBLE up runs.
A single troll can cause that problem. A single leech or a single person unprepared isn't likely to cause that problem, depending on the rest of the group.
It's the gamble one takes while hitting up public queues. Hoping that there are no trolls while hoping there aren't too many leeches or folks just not prepared for the content.
Up until about a week ago (or two at this point), I was running at well over a 90% success rate on my public queue runs. In the past week and a bit, I've had more unsuccessful runs than I had all year up until that point.
I figure it comes down to several things:
1) Simply the continuing case of more folks that are capable having gone to channel runs - it's been going on like that for years; which has made it more and more difficult as time goes along - reducing the capable pool, so to speak.
2) The brutal lag.
3) Folks that have given up even trying to do runs because of the lag reducing the capable pool.
4) Folks showing up with their Delta Recruits unprepared and looking to be carried by that capable pool that simply no longer exists in a sufficient amount to cover them all.
5) I'm not flying a carry build...I'm running with Meena and not Willard. Willard spams heals, grabs aggro, debuffs, buffs, does crowd control, etc, etc, etc...he can't solo stuff, but outside of trolls and a team full of leeches, he can generally carry folks. Meena's not built that way. I was tired of flying that way...it wasn't helping anybody - helping them get stuff, sure, but they weren't bothering to get better.
There are in game solutions for all the stuff. Either improve self or team to get to advance without changing mechanics or buy stuff at the exchange.
We already know your answer to this like all those same people who complain about this thread issue, its simply flat rejection. So, it is by personal choice that you dont get these stuff. And because of that personal choice, you want the devs to change mechanics.
We have been consistent of our stand of solution of ingame mechanics like you guys have been consistent in your stand by flatly rejecting ingame mechanics in order to change the mechanics.
As I mentioned earlier though, have you considered the effect that would have on the game economy? I know you said it's not something you do, but that doesn't mean that other people don't.
Except it doesn't. Trolling existed long before fail conditions. That's a form of trolling, but there has been all kinds of trolling that has taken place over the years.
But that doesn't answer my question...what content requires teamwork of any sort that one would need more than a few seconds to discuss it?
Have you named a single one of these other MMOs yet? I don't recall.
It devalues all rewards by doing so, like it has already devalued anything so far in the game that has been easy to get.
Right, but with that...exclusivity doesn't have anything to do with entitlement. People doing something are entitled to those that don't do it...while those that think they deserve things without doing something are demonstrating entitlement issues.
For somebody that talks so much about the teamwork thing and community building, I just don't get why you think everybody should be doing everything - while ignoring the effect that would have on the community.
It's at odds. So much of what you describe comes down to wanting a single player game.
Solo missions to get all the rewards. No need to interact with any form of community market where folks doing different things can get what they want.
It's almost starting to feel like a cliche discussion of communism, socialism, and capitalism.
No fail mechanics means no trolling by one player, wasting the time of 4 other players.
No timers means the team has the time to keep making changes to thier plans to acheive the goal.
But unlike baseball, one player can ruin the entire game for on purpose. And you can't bench them from harming the game any further. Right now it's like if the first guy up to bat doesn't hit the ball the game is over, the other team wins. You get nothing.
Just because there is no fail mechanic or timers doesn't mean the content is easy to complete. There are many ways that content can be hard, completelable with enough effort, and progressable.
As for MMO's that don't have timers and fails, WOW, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Wizardry Online, Elder Scrols Online, Legends, Star Legends, Celtic Heroes and D&D Online for what I can name off the top of my head. Not all of which I play any more for various reasons. In fact, I don't remember there being timers or fails in SWTOR either. All very engaging games in thier own right, And all have various good points and bad points about them.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Sorry, but DDO has fail mechanics an timers so, you full of it on this one, because I have played this game a lot.
Baseball the way you want it, wouldn't have the ability for ANYONE to ruin the game for ANYONE, unless they decided to pick a fight maybe.
And, just like in RL baseball, yes a player can be benched!!!
Haven't played any of the others and, don't ever plan to now knowing this TRIBBLE.
And, yes SWTOR does have fails with timers!!!
Yes, no timers and no chance for a failure, makes the game extremely too easy.
I mean, imagine if you played super Mario brothers and, there was infinite lives, with no timer to reach the end, what possible challenge could there be left, other than keep trying to reach the end of the stage?
Wow, you made it to the end of the stage, here's your freaking cookie!!!
You're a winner!!!
:rolleyes:
I guess you like games, that simulate a bunch of rats in a maze, with the cheese waiting at the end and, the only way they cannot possibly get it, is for them to die?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Leechers can do that at any level of content. SO putting it at lower levels in smaller quantities doesn't change anything. And if they wanted to leech normal, they are going to do it now anyways. Again no real change. Untill some mechanics can be put in to root out leeches is in place, whatever that might be, leechers will exist no matter what.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Yes, they can do it at any level but, how easy is it for them to get those rewards, when there is a chance of the mission failing and, rewarding nothing?
As for normal, than let them stay in there doing normal but, in no way should the advanced/elite rewards be made available to them and, most certainly not people unwilling to earn them like others do.
But, we aren't talking directly about leechers, we are talking about people wanting to get those advanced/elite rewards and, not being any better than those who do leech!!!
Because, they don't want to actually put the effort into a real challenge, having to actually face omg lol pressure in a game to challenge them!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Albert is vague. I have no idea what you mean.
Betty is already defeated by the AFK mechanics.
Chuck is a serious problem with the STF design. ISA is the big one here and needs redesigned to prevent Chucks. There is no other solution.
Deobrah is not an issue as long as the objectives aren't too tight, yet she can't learn she is not quite ready either.
Eddie is victim of a bad system if that is his usual draw when he queues up. So why aren't there more Eddies queuing?
That is what needs answered and fixed. Are poor rewards keeping people out? Are objectives badly balanced and inappropriately difficult? Are enemies scaling/buffing too much? Are they simply not fun because the fail chance makes them frustrating? Is the difference in the way normal is played vs advanced too big because of these changes that it causes people to not actually know how to play it when they move up the tier?
These are questions that need to be answered so the problems can be fixed. Throwing out a ridiculous suggestion that Eddie not PUG doesn't solve the issues that every next Eddie will face.
DDO didn't have those in the content I played. I left the game when they set there FTP plan to control content and leveling.
And I said I didn't remember there being any fails and timers in SWTOR. Maybe the things I did never had those. But there is nothing I recall doing that limited me in content in such manner. Again their FTP model I didn't like, so don't play it anymore.
And No timers and no fails don't mean easy. WOW's mechanics is very good in respect that you can go on a dungeon or raid and wipe constantly. For days even. No timers. No fails. Just the fact that you not getting past the mechanic and so die. And once everybody rezzes, heals up, and repairs, they discuss what went wrong, what went right, and what to change or do differently to get things done and start once more. No one in there right mind will ever say that at level content is easy, or that you will complete it every time you attempt it UNTIL you develope the strat to get past the mechanic. Once it's discovered then you need enough people to do the right thing and not die to complete the kill. It's not easy till you learn the mechanic, then it's not frustrating to complete once you do know. And while one person can cause a wipe, you can vote to kick the person out of the group and try again.
STO you cannot kick anyone out of a STF. You also cannot disable thier ship or person so that they can't troll the group. There is nothing you can do to keep one person from hosing a run and causing a fail to the entire group. And I am not saying to put in Kicking options, because that is open to abuse in other ways. So tell me how you can bench a player in a PUG?
And you Super Mario Analogy is just that to me, freaking ridiculous game. It's not fun in that I have no personalization options or alternate content because the game is linear and limited by it's very nature. It's too simple and easy for me and so don't play it. Or games like it. Besides, within it's gameplay, there is nothing another player can do to make you fail. Because there are no other players. So I don't think you analogy pairs well with this topic.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Have said it before (maybe in this thread, maybe the other thread, who knows in how many countless threads over the years)...
Some players want something. They take a look at the different ways they can go about getting it. They get it.
Some players want something. They complain about it on the forums.
Say I want Salvaged Technology, since it was one of the items brought up. Okay, so that's generally locked behind running Elite queues. Okay then, say I'm not up to doing Elite queues. Is there another way for me to get it? Aha, there it is on the Exchange. Okay then, is there anything that I do while I'm playing that will allow me to generate Energy Credits to get that Salvaged Tech? Anything that I might be able to get and sell, something that somebody else might want, so I can get the EC to get what I want and they can spend their EC to get what they want? Or hrmmm, just what am I looking to use that Salvaged Tech for in the first place, yeah? Oh yeah, the Experimental Upgrades. Hrmm, I can get a Beam Experimental 674k EC while the two Salvaged I'd need to make that are going to cost me 410k each...and that's before the other components needed, yadda, yadda, yadda. But wait, if I've got the skill...can do the crit thing along the way...that would change things, yeah? So let's see what my best options are right now...
Say it's not a case of wanting those ETUs to use, but I want to sell them for EC so I can get something else that I want - say a ship, a trait, DOFFs, weapons, whatever else is being sold on the Exchange, eh? Gets back into what skills and so forth I've got, right?
Okay then, but let's say that Salvaged was available in Normal, more available in Advanced, and even more available in Elite...say Salvaged was even available in solo missions, right?
Well then, several things happen...
1) Can forget about selling ETUs to buy anything cause they'll be worthless. Them being worthless will make STUs worthless, so forget about selling them. The majority of R&D simply becomes worthless.
2) Everybody will have a much easier time upgrading everything, meaning everybody will have a much easier time running everything, which means all the rewards will be easier to get, and that we've just gone through and deflated the value of everything else too. Doesn't mean prices of certain things will come down though - cause amongst all that inflation taking place, those still rare items will still be rare and their prices will reflect that.
3) The best way then to make EC for things will revolve around buying Zen. It won't be around converting Dil to Zen, cause the inflation will take place there as well - there will be so much Dil around that it just won't be worth it. So folks will have to buy Zen to get things like Master Keys and other Zen items that will maintain their value...cause the items, Lock Box, and so forth will have maintained their rarity.
But yeah, who cares about the various ways one could go about getting things if they can't run Elite (even though working toward being able to would be another option), and let's just sabotage the Hell out of the whole game, yeah?
Gets frustrating, yeah?
Oh well...heh, still think it's a trip how much the 2x Major Research Boosts cost. Noticed that while looking through the other things, need to go check my other characters to see just how many of those I've got.
Why would a leecher care. They certainly don't care enough to make sure the effort succeeds. It just meens they just queue up again alter and try to leech one more time. Leeching will occur no matter what. And right now, even with fails and timers, leechers run Advanced and go through many fails before they get their win. They must, because I see a lot of leechers in my fail runs. And they seem to be back time and time again anyways. So leechers and fails isn't going to cut for an argument with me.
But if we make VR mats available if you complete all the optionals in normal, you are going to foster more teamwork, and help people get better gear to get better prepared for Advanced. And when they think they are ready for Advance, they can try. If they do well, then they are ready. If they don't do well, well they go back to Normals and keep working on getting better at the optionals, better skilled and better gear to be ready for advanced. And with Normals feeding you what you need to be better at Advanced, then it becomes intuitive as to why you should do things this way across all content.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Wow, WOW sound like a total POS MMO imo and, I am glad I never had the chance to play it!
Winning thru attrition, is utterly the worst winner mentality, I could ever see a game incorporate!
It's like when I would watch my father, play military madness over and over again.
Once he learned the pattern for defeating the enemy, it became too easy, because the same pattern works every time, the game doesn't alter its pattern at all, like playing a game of chess with an utter simple pattern AI.
I asked myself, what is the point in playing it, if all you are going to do, is win every time with no actual challenge, why not maybe oh try a different pattern?
And, this is what WOW, as you mentioned, pans out to become imo, once you have established the exact pattern needed for success, due to no pressure from time constraints or failure possibility.
Lame!!!
And, super Mario brothers is a fun game, but I see you are the type, that doesn't like games that actually pressure players into teamwork, but instead encourage social cannot lose no pressure or challenge actually involved games.
Unless your idea of a challenge, is Krunk the caveman, figuring out how to breath challenging!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Then suggest something that limits trolling, provides options for people who don't have the time to make EC, and works for people that don't have a large enough friends list to form teams.
Like I said before, I am not an economist. I find the whole exchange game boring. So boring, that I sleep is better than figuring that stuff out. If you think that proving those alternate ways will crash the economy, then suggests modifications that will limit that effect and still open up ways for people with limited options.
And making the stuff available through solo content can be controlled. You can put the mission on a 20 hour cool down, which will certain limit the impact that it has on the game, and still give people another option.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
It could mean several things and even a combination of those things. Albert might have no clue what the content is about, what needs to be done, and doesn't bother reading the objectives/etc that are there. Albert might be showing up in a boat that's doing 1-3k DPS. All sorts of things...where a person simply isn't prepared to do the content.
But she's not, because the threshold for the AFK is so low.
There are actually several things where a single player can just royally TRIBBLE a group over. I'd rather Cryptic focused on addressing all the trollable actions one can take in a run than simply addressing that a trollable action can cause a fail - cause the folks can still troll the rewards and the time it takes to get stuff done.
Really just wish they'd make that a priority and then take a look at the rest. I haven't seen anybody on either side of the discussions in this thread disagree on the trolling (sure, there's the difference between the troll->fail and troll->rewards/time; but nobody's defending trolling)...
That's another point...the game itself doesn't quite give folks that feedback.
Joe All-Star, Kim All-Star, Larry All-Star, Monique All-Star, and Deborah end up teamed together...Deborah might be left thinking that she's doing far better than she is. But when she ends up on a team with 3-4 folks playing at her level and things go to Hell in a handbasket...they're all going to run into a sour experience, eh?
Possibly made worse if some of those of folks have false impressions of their past contributions and turn on one another.
Some sort of private feedback, I'm not a fan of public feedback (don't get why folks post the numbers from parses in team unless everybody asked for them and the like), would help players know better what they're doing.
There have been times I've thought I was rocking...I wasn't. There have been times where I thought I needed to apologize to the group for my performance...but there was no need.
One shouldn't have to run an external program to get some better feedback on how one is doing in a team environment.
Each Eddie will have their own reason or reasons...
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Albert's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Betty's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Chuck's?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the Deborah's when there are multiples of them?
Is it because Eddie can avoid them by doing channel runs?
Is it because Eddie is tired of the lag?
Is it because Eddie simply doesn't want anything from the queue?
Is it because Eddie finds it more enjoyable to get things elsewhere that he wants?
Is it because Eddie is there but he's playing one of the other queues because there are so many queues?
Is it because Eddie has done the same thing for so long now that he is just bored?
Is it because Eddie doesn't have the time to run them anymore?
The list can go on and on.
Each Eddie's going to have his reason or reasons that he's not running something.
It's a place where Eddie can go and possibly still enjoy the game, while expressing his concerns to Cryptic about his issues...his issues...which might not be the same issues that Albert and Deborah have and where what Albert and Deborah want might not make anything better for Eddie.
Why would a leecher care? You really have to ask? Because they can get the rewards [advanced/elite with your dumb suggestion], just by showing up since the mission cannot technically ever fail!!!
At least with the fail system in place, could take them hours - days even to get what they wanted and, it even forces some leechers to contribute some. [albeit so small as to avoid an afk penalty or, to make sure it doesn't fail]
We already had mention from many people [you included I believe], that normals don't prepare people for advanced. [which is a complete load of TRIBBLE]
Fostering teamwork, comes from players wanting and encouraging it but, a good majority of pug groups don't really care and, would sooner just get it done for the rewards.
And, people now who are prepared or, think they are for advanced, do advanced. But, many who are not ready for it or, are not prepared, keep doing it instead of going back to normal, unless they just figure that is the only way to get anywhere.
Normals feed you what you need as it is in marks, because quite a bit of your rep gear, can be had by marks alone and, there isn't even a need for that in advanced really.
Normals are not required, to feed you VR R&D mats, because again, nothing you craft, is actually needed for advanced.
Your comments, keep boiling down to I want but, I don't want to actually work for it and, comes off sounding more and more, like a freaking leecher!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!