Because players who insists to nerf stuff make excuse they cannot finish advance because missions are insanely difficult and unavoidable rather themsevles solving that problem with the current mechanics which makes the difficult solvable/avoidable.
Which isn't anything I proposed. You clearly didn't read my suggestion.
And still don't address your ignorant assumption I can't complete them in you accusation. I can. I prefer to run advanced, and have no problem with our organized group that does Elites. You ignorant assumption is that because i can I must feel elitist and want to exclude anyone who can't. Sorry, no dice. I can run them and see their points equally.
Rewards are already almost proportional.
They aren't proportional, they are exclusive. Again you didn't read what I suggested. Only eliminating the exclusive progression rewards. Do you always have to build strawman arguments like this to defeat rather than trying to counter what people actually say?
People in normal doing all the objectives will get them almost the same number of marks as the one doing Elite.
That you think it is about marks is ridiculous. No one has argued that mark rewards are the problem. /facepalm
Read proportional rewards eliminating exclusive items would solve the problem. People who can't do advanced won't, because they don't have to anymore. Those of use who like the challenge can do them for increased rewards and not worry about under powered captains queuing up and having to be carried or causing failure, and the difficulty can be kept high.
To me it doesn't sound like it is the challenge at all that you like, but just the exclusive rewards. If it was the challenge, you wouldn't care if they got 1 salvaged tech a week, or got a daily Neural node for example.
if rewards are proportional based on difficulty, I dont mind getting 1000 salvage tech in finishing elite while those who complete normal and advance get none.
Proportion of 0 is well zero. Again the only ones showing entitlement are those like yourself.
Again the only ones showing entitlement are those like yourself.
So, er, I'm a little curious here...
paxdawn's showing entitlement by suggesting that those that have put in some form of effort to do more difficult content should be rewarded for doing so...
...but the opposite of that, rewarding for no effort...
...isn't showing entitlement?
Guess I'm more confused than curious with that.
I don't think the word means what you think it does.
paxdawn's showing entitlement by suggesting that those that have put in some form of effort to do more difficult content should be rewarded for doing so...
...but the opposite of that, rewarding for no effort...
...isn't showing entitlement?
Guess I'm more confused than curious with that.
I don't think the word means what you think it does.
i like exposing fallacies and hidden propaganda/agenda from other players. We even gave players who complain about this advance, options in game to solve their advance problems, which they flatly refuse for whatever reason to justify changing advance to fit their agenda. We have shrinked those wanting change to the point that we can identify advance whining as leeches themselves. When they run out of excuses try to create their own vocabulary to justify their cause.
I have to say I'm genuinely surprised to see the patch notes for tomorrow removing the fail from all 3 Iconian advanced.
Right man and cool.
Here they are:
Gateway to Grethor:
o Advanced now has a performance failure condition.
o Advanced now fails if the team does not save a single transport in phase 2.
o Numbers have been adjusted to provide the same as, or rewards greater than previous.
o The net total of marks should be the same as previous, or slightly higher.
o Updated the Contact to give version specific instructions on the transport phase.
o Normal has no added information.
o Advanced mentions player must save one to pass.
o Elite mentions player must save the required number to pass.
o Added Skillpoints to the rewards for optional objectives.
Brotherhood of the Sword:
o Mark rewards have been scaled down as they were initially set too high.
o Advanced no longer has required objectives.
o Instead, all potential objectives will be present during Advanced and each is able to be completed for rewards.
Herald Sphere:
o Stage 1: Advanced version can no longer be failed here.
o Stage 2: Optional bonus for Normal AND Advanced can be failed.
o The whole mission does not fail when this happens.
o Stage 3: Advanced no longer fails if timer expires
o Stage 4: Optional bonus for defeating the boss before time runs out for both Normal AND Advanced.
o Advanced does not fail when timer expires.
o Resolved an issue where optional objectives were not being included in the reward in Advanced mode
Look forward of those and whats left to fail there is seems only to be a minor participating check Cryptic said theyd leave intact. Since I, or anybody else who intend to play, should be able to handle those alone Im confident those advanced maps with the best effort/reward ratio will see to a long active live for Ico marks. I could not care less which one because all have some quality. Sphere feels fast but a bit boring towards NPC smashing, Gatway is a bit timegated so Brotherhood is kinda my favourite map for the time being, perhaps even for the next weeks to come. Marks will be reduced only in Bro. Sad but ok, I felt getting enough marks to be able to fill all Ico reput sliders on 9 toons in just one week or so a bit excessive anyway.
All in all a perfect solution on the Iconian front in my opinion. If I team up with 1-3 other player near my skill we get a fair shot at elite and if Im on my own or with inexperienced fleet mates I can handle advanced just fine. In both cases Im likely to experience a feeling of having to play for my rewards which the annoying easy normal mode constantly denied. Lets hope peeps go for the change, fill those queue lists and dont get their Ico marks on that boring Zombi world.
Good job Cryptic, now please tend to the next set of maps.
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What was as you say effective in pre-dr elites, are now shown to be a complete joke, just like the old elites were, the people who have adapted to this change, have moved on, those still flabbergasted/stubborn/dumbfounded, have not.
Thats just complete BS. A drain build was a complete joke? Right....:rolleyes:
Some1 mentioned HSE. When HSE apeared, a drain build was one of the best way to kill the queen cuz of its massive shield regen. In fact, I remember when I completed it back in the days, was with a breen warship drain build, with DHCs even. And also in PvP drain builds were top builds.
i like exposing fallacies and hidden propaganda/agenda from other players. We even gave players who complain about this advance, options in game to solve their advance problems, which they flatly refuse for whatever reason to justify changing advance to fit their agenda. We have shrinked those wanting change to the point that we can identify advance whining as leeches themselves. When they run out of excuses try to create their own vocabulary to justify their cause.
Thats a good joke man. I can say the same thing about players with hidden propaganda/agenda who are against this change. You try to find escuses to preserve the idiotic and imbalance state of the game. After the DPSers via DEVs brought it up to DPS plane of field (by toning the difficulty for the 2 mins ISE and such), imbalanced to beyond repair, you find escuses to maintain the status que, hidden behind "challange" reasons and whatnot. Its all about elitism and exclusiveness. Its not and never was about any challange. If it was, the ppl that liked to be challanged would brag about doing stuff in the underdogs like DHC escorts or drain builds, not how much you can stroke ISA in a BFAW Scimitar. Or go into PvP field for a real challange. But I guess its easier to stay in the PvE field and be king of the idiots, then to be a mediocre player in PvP. Its actually quite hypocritical, becouse those that scream "challange" are the ones that are looking for the easier ways lol.
And speaking again of HSE, in what world is wise, balance wise and even finanacial wise, that 5 players to be able to compete it using 2 years old ships like BFAW Scimitars, yet to be imposible, for the same 5 players, but using 5 latest tier 6 escorts, but with DHCs.
But yeah, you guys keep playing that broken record that its players fault...:rolleyes:
Thats just complete BS. A drain build was a complete joke? Right....:rolleyes:
Some1 mentioned HSE. When HSE apeared, a drain build was one of the best way to kill the queen cuz of its massive shield regen. In fact, I remember when I completed it back in the days, was with a breen warship drain build, with DHCs even. And also in PvP drain builds were top builds.
Thats a good joke man. I can say the same thing about players with hidden propaganda/agenda who are against this change. You try to find escuses to preserve the idiotic and imbalance state of the game. After the DPSers via DEVs brought it up to DPS plane of field (by toning the difficulty for the 2 mins ISE and such), imbalanced to beyond repair, you find escuses to maintain the status que, hidden behind "challange" reasons and whatnot. Its all about elitism and exclusiveness. Its not and never was about any challange. If it was, the ppl that liked to be challanged would brag about doing stuff in the underdogs like DHC escorts or drain builds, not how much you can stroke ISA in a BFAW Scimitar. Or go into PvP field for a real challange. But I guess its easier to stay in the PvE field and be king of the idiots, then to be a mediocre player in PvP. Its actually quite hypocritical, becouse those that scream "challange" are the ones that are looking for the easier ways lol.
And speaking again of HSE, in what world is wise, balance wise and even finanacial wise, that 5 players to be able to compete it using 2 years old ships like BFAW Scimitars, yet to be imposible, for the same 5 players, but using 5 latest tier 6 escorts, but with DHCs.
But yeah, you guys keep playing that broken record that its players fault...:rolleyes:
Who said I didn't like change. Maybe those who like to nerf it back to pre-dr are those who don't like change? Just like the dude crafting his own word entitlement, with their own created vocabulary.
we have identified the playerbase who want this, those refuses to improve self, insist on Pugging, refuse to get better team, refuse to go solo, refuse to go down to normal, refuse to go buy stuff at exchange but demands to be In advance.
PVP scenario on PVE, you must be one those large ego people who can't beat people in PvE.
If you really up for a challenge do ISA for 100k. Go to HSE and parse 50k Dps, don't die, upload in the table. It's supose to be easy for, pro forum trollers... I mean pros like you. If you can spend time posting this in the forums, there is no reason for you to not do PvE challenge within a day.
i like exposing fallacies and hidden propaganda/agenda from other players. We even gave players who complain about this advance, options in game to solve their advance problems, which they flatly refuse for whatever reason to justify changing advance to fit their agenda. We have shrinked those wanting change to the point that we can identify advance whining as leeches themselves. When they run out of excuses try to create their own vocabulary to justify their cause.
Ironic, because not one of your posts has been anything but logical fallacies. Personal attacks, strawmen, and overuse of words you don't understand the meaning of like "propaganda" and "entitlement" are all I've seen from you. And it is generally inflammatory as well. It's like you're deliberately trying to start a flame war to shut the thread down.
Who said I didn't like change. Maybe those who like to nerf it back to pre-dr are those who don't like change? Just like the dude crafting his own word entitlement, with their own created vocabulary.
we have identified the playerbase who want this, those refuses to improve self, insist on Pugging, refuse to get better team, refuse to go solo, refuse to go down to normal, refuse to go buy stuff at exchange but demands to be In advance.
PVP scenario on PVE, you must be one those large ego people who can't beat people in PvE.
If you really up for a challenge do ISA for 100k. Go to HSE and parse 50k Dps, don't die, upload in the table. It's supose to be easy for, pro forum trollers... I mean pros like you. If you can spend time posting this in the forums, there is no reason for you to not do PvE challenge within a day.
Ha, good one. Loving this.
Now what is this "we have identified"? So some1 putted you and a few others incharge to identify anything? I am just curious, dont take it as a personal attack or something.
And you speak of playerbase. Take a look on reddit histagram. Dude, its the majority of playerbase. Ppl put as much energy/attention in the game as they choose or can. It was like this from start. And it shouldnt be a surprise. For years those players enjoyed nice and easy content. Even the fact the old ISE was probably played millions of times indicates that. Becouse ppl sure didnt played it for a challange. Then DR hit and earnings for Cryptic were low for last quarter of 2014, then again for first quarter of 2015 culminating in major lay offs. Then Delta Recuit event hitted and was a huge succes. Still dont get why was a surprise for Cryptic. It shouldve been obvious. Players enjoyed easy content, at their own pace and without fail objectives. Thats why also open battlezones are having such a huge succes. Then S10 came, challanging players:rolleyes:.But players are barely playing that content. So after 6-8 months you still expect players to "impove"? Guess what? Reality check... wont happen in even 6 years. And the quotas are there becouse what it requires now cant be called improvement what so ever. Its just dumbing players down and turning them into mindless DPS chasing monkeys. And got a good share of those even into ISN, since ppl talked about that one. When lvling my dleta recruit, allmost everyday, there is an idiot DPSer that goes to the right side, thinking he can solo it. And he is also incompetent, since he failed every time. And some times they blame the team, not themselves lol
Also some ppl talk about desilusions, but not in the right context imo. Its desilusional to expect players to be what you want/like. And the argument: if I can do it everybody should is pathetic. STO players are what they are. To deny that would slowly kill this game. It may not mean much to you or other numbers crunching mix/maxers since you will probably move to another game since its all numbers to you. But for the majority, wich are casual Star Trek fans and not hardcore game players, it does matter alot. Some even suported the game since launch and now out of the sudden they are not "adequate" players and should go TRIBBLE themselves becouse a few, other players like you, have some desilusional views of how things should be? Get a grip buddy.
And again with personal attack? Who the hell talks about beating ppl in PvE? Now you ran out of arguments and resort to personal attacks and nonsense? I wont lower to your level and I will not even respond to those.
I, for one, dont have anything to prove to anyone. Especially on some made up unofficial chart:rolleyes: Again you are deluding yourself if you think that your unofficial DPS chart means anything for the playerbase.
Ironic, because not one of your posts has been anything but logical fallacies. Personal attacks, strawmen, and overuse of words you don't understand the meaning of like "propaganda" and "entitlement" are all I've seen from you. And it is generally inflammatory as well. It's like you're deliberately trying to start a flame war to shut the thread down.
Quoted for truth
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
... insist on Pugging, refuse to get better team, ... but demands to be In advance.
You better confess to incompetence NOW or you face FAR, far worse and that If you think of yourself to be a competent player and still dare to defend your position and voice your opinion you may be found out as TROLL and get a verdict accordingly!
You do not want that to happen, DO YOU?
Oh Lord, his is not going to end well...
(lol ok, if continue to care, that is. But glad to see you enjoy STO forums as much as I do. )
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Let's put it this way shall we, 1k-3k dps used to be good enough to get by in old elites!
To be blunt, no it wasn't. Even pre-DR, 1-3k was being carried. Well, depends on what you mean by 3k...whether you're saying 1-<4k or 1-3k...cause somebody doing 3-<4k that was doing some CC or the like could be contributing. Folks doing 1-<3k were being carried.
* * * * *
But that's not what I came here to post, heh...was actually this from the ISA run I had which just failed...cracked me up something rotten.
Player D) "WHATEVER IDIOT WASTED THE GRAV WELL ON THE TRANSFORMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAIL"
Yeah, they did the all caps for it.
But anyway, this was the DPS for the group.
Player A) 26,359
Meena) 18,387
Player C) 3,891
Player D) 3,695
Player E) 1,624
Yeah, Player D was leeching.../cough
But the reason it failed on the second Transformer was from lag. The combination of how it adversely affected DPS and well I died with Player A dying 19 seconds later.
The group lost all the DPS to lag deaths (spin cycle abilities unable to be activated).
If Players C-E were doing 5-9k DPS, it would have been enough DPS to have finished off the Transformer despite the loss of Players A & B.
But Player D going off like that...given their contribution...lol. It's funny, almost all of the complaints I've seen from folks blaming something that somebody else did...has been from folks like that. Odds are pretty good that folks having read the tirade that took place there probably would figure Player D for some "elitist" DPS douchebag...but yeah, lol, no...and oh well, that's how things go...it's just a trip.
Heh, the person had GW'd the Spheres...it was just laggy as Hell, the Spheres ignored it...DPS went down the drain...and the DPS died.
But people that don't pay attention to things like to make all sorts of excuses...
A good fix to the advanced stf's in my opinion would be to limit them to team use only (private matches)
See, I could see that for Elite...it being "Elite" and all that...but Advanced? It's just Advanced. Some sort of gating sure, but locking it away behind private queues? It is something that would really warrant that?
They've apparently removed the fails for the Optionals in ADV ques. Just did my first one where the group didn't even try for the optionals and completed it.
Can we please have them returned to ADV ques. I'd rather fail the entire STF than to get groups that don't even try for them.
I hate to say it. Bt the autofail optionals actually make it to where player had to learn the STF. Now without them, any trained monkey with a gun can do them. Can we turn Easy-mode back off?
They've apparently removed the fails for the Optionals in ADV ques. Just did my first one where the group didn't even try for the optionals and completed it.
Can we please have them returned to ADV ques. I'd rather fail the entire STF than to get groups that don't even try for them.
I hate to say it. Bt the autofail optionals actually make it to where player had to learn the STF. Now without them, any trained monkey with a gun can do them. Can we turn Easy-mode back off?
That was part of the feedback offered with the ANRA test...it was ignored...it will be ignored as it's given as feedback for the changes to certain queues they made with today's patch...it will be ignored with every change they roll out for the Advanced.
Folks wanting the change just wanted to half-TRIBBLE leech their way to the VR mats...
edit: The above is a bit unfair, since not all that wanted the change actually wanted it for that reason. It's just frustrating to point out something is going to happen - have it ignored - and it happen.
Make the VR mats dependent upon completing the Optionals...if they're going to remove the Mandatory Objectives.
That was part of the feedback offered with the ANRA test...it was ignored...it will be ignored as it's given as feedback for the changes to certain queues they made with today's patch...it will be ignored with every change they roll out for the Advanced.
Folks wanting the change just wanted to half-TRIBBLE leech their way to the VR mats...
Make the VR mats dependent upon completing the Optionals...if they're going to remove the Mandatory Objectives.
That is another way to do it. I've completed brotherhodd enough times already to have the shield, the weapon, the kit module, half way in to T4 rep, with 404 marks left over and 22 datacores. It wasn't hard to begin with. Just had to have someone heal the orion. The only one I could see being annoyingly hard would be Manus and saving the crew members from assimilation.
There you go, you realize you cannot carry the PuGs. The team is the problem. Find a better team to finish.
If you dont have the time to grind the EC buy the Ec thru Zen. EC is all about time or real money. No need to play economics if you are a casual player. You are a casual player right?
Like your previous posts in this thread, Dont make lousy excuses that you dont have time but dont have money , still want all these rewards and claim to be casual.
You do realize you just contradicted yourself. You say NPCs are just HP bags. Then you say they healed beyond what you can deal DPS because they are elite. What are they to you just HP bags or mobs that can self heal?
I can't select PUG teams, kinda opposite of the term. I came to this game on my own. I don't know very many people in game. And most don't play when I do.
I consider myself more of a hardcare player playing on a casuals time table. LOL.
I don't have the luxury of having a set schedule to form teams with. And I don't know that many players to boot. And I don't have the money, because I have financial responsibilties that claim far more of income than I like at times. But I am responsible for it. And I got myself into it, So I am being responsible and fulfilling those requirements first. So no, I don't have the real money to get EC. And I don't have the time nor the desire to play the Exchange Game to get EC. SO I will run the STF's because they can be fun when the team is working together.
And I didn't contradict myself. Just pointed out that I know the upped the HP bags quite a bit in the latest expansion. But at elite level, they out heal my damage, but at Advanced and Normal they don't, just takes time to kill them. Because of the fact that they have increased the HP Bags, it takes far longer now to get through the content than it once did. I was trying just to acknowledge that I realized they increased the HP bags. Not that the HP Bags were a problem for me to deal with. Maybe I justed worded it wrong.
They've apparently removed the fails for the Optionals in ADV ques. Just did my first one where the group didn't even try for the optionals and completed it.
Can we please have them returned to ADV ques. I'd rather fail the entire STF than to get groups that don't even try for them.
I hate to say it. Bt the autofail optionals actually make it to where player had to learn the STF. Now without them, any trained monkey with a gun can do them. Can we turn Easy-mode back off?
I've pugged Brotherhood and Gateway once each. All optionals completed in Brotherhood except the Orion (as the mission should have been all along) and saved 39 transports in Gateway (in a below average dps group). Got at least as many or more marks than before.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Awesome news. Between the "fools rush in" and the "just as it dies it gets 1 pt of healing off" there was only 1 Omega mark/BNP mission I could trust to not get botched in 30 seconds.
It was a long grind at 30 min a pop, and quite depressing as well, especially for a Delta alt trying to get the rep gear.
Everything said here, you can blame on the player's for being trolls/greedy/incompetent/unskilled/new.
As for the EC's bit, you can run the tour and, make more than you have listed per day depending on speed and # of toons! EASILY
As for the Incompetent, unskilled and new people, that is why I wouild like to remove the timers. So that PUG's can take the time to figure out those things that are needed to accomplish the completion of the STF. Like it used to be when I first started playing before this current system was put in place.
As for the Tour, I have never run it. SO don't know anything about it. I will look into it one of these days. Thanks for the tip!
As for the Incompetent, unskilled and new people, that is why I wouild like to remove the timers. So that PUG's can take the time to figure out those things that are needed to accomplish the completion of the STF. Like it used to be when I first started playing before this current system was put in place.
Thing is...well, it's kind of the same problem as even before Delta Rising was hinted at.
Incompetent...are they Advanced? No.
Unskilled...are they Advanced? No.
New...are they Advanced? No.
Just using the terms being used there.
But it's the same as it was before.
Normal
Elite
Now it's changed.
Normal
Advanced
Elite
But the concept is the same.
There are two doors leading to bathrooms. One has a sign saying Men's and one has a sign saying Women's.
paxdawn's showing entitlement by suggesting that those that have put in some form of effort to do more difficult content should be rewarded for doing so...
...but the opposite of that, rewarding for no effort...
...isn't showing entitlement?
Guess I'm more confused than curious with that.
I don't think the word means what you think it does.
I beleive he is trying to point out that exclusive rewards completeing content at like Elite or Advanced is entitlement.
And that if the rewards were obtainable at all levels, including normal, at proportional amounts at each difficulty would be removing the entitalement, and reward those who put in the greater effort with more stuff. Something that I wouldn't mind as an idea, for then those who go to Advance, but know they can't do well, for the VR Mats would just drop back down to Normal and get better at that stage.
you got to be level 60 and complete the mission dragons breathern
use this as a example there is no reason cryptic could not make enterance to the advanced STFs complete this solo mission...you need ( 8k ) DPS to complete it with a timer...now you can Q up for advanced missions
We could call this a qualifting mission
this would make players get better at least in build and dps......The mission could have links to ...heaven forbid tips on how to build there ships !...Imagine that !
Fail conditions just let them fail and teach nothing at all......the fail doesnt even tell them post mission why it failed
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
you got to be level 60 and complete the mission dragons breathern
use this as a example there is no reason cryptic could not make enterance to the advanced STFs complete this solo mission...you need ( 8k ) DPS to complete it with a timer...now you can Q up for advanced missions
We could call this a qualifting mission
this would make players get better at least in build and dps......The mission could have links to ...heaven forbid tips on how to build there ships !...Imagine that !
Fail conditions just let them fail and teach nothing at all......the fail doesnt even tell them post mission why it failed
I like this idea too. Any means in which the game can teach the players the basics would be far better than the lack of it that we have now.
Fail conditions just let them fail and teach nothing at all......the fail doesnt even tell them post mission why it failed
What mission doesn't show the Objectives?
What mission doesn't show that an Objective is Mandatory?
What mission when it fails doesn't have that Mandatory Objective in red?
I beleive he is trying to point out that exclusive rewards completeing content at like Elite or Advanced is entitlement.
And that if the rewards were obtainable at all levels, including normal, at proportional amounts at each difficulty would be removing the entitalement, and reward those who put in the greater effort with more stuff. Something that I wouldn't mind as an idea, for then those who go to Advance, but know they can't do well, for the VR Mats would just drop back down to Normal and get better at that stage.
Tom and Jerry want a new TV.
Jerry goes to work 40+ hours a week, maybe puts in some overtime, maybe has been saving up over a period of time...earns the money, has it, and buys the TV that he's entitled to because he put in the effort to get it.
Tom sits at home collecting welfare or disability, though he is not disabled and quite capable of working while living in an area with ample employment...he collects his checks, has the money, and buys the TV that he feels entitled to having.
There is a reward that requires some effort.
People put in the effort to get the reward...are entitled to the reward.
People that don't want to put the effort in to get the reward...have entitlement issues.
I'm picturing a coupe of folks playing Tic-Tac-Toe.
First guy goes, putting his X.
Second guy goes, putting his O.
First guy goes again, putting his X next to his other X.
First guy declares he's the winner.
Second guy says you need to have three in a row.
First guy says he thinks he should only have to do two to win.
What mission doesn't show the Objectives?
What mission doesn't show that an Objective is Mandatory?
What mission when it fails doesn't have that Mandatory Objective in red?
Some missions do very little to make you aware of what or where the objective is. Bug hunt and its alarm bugs, for example. The Where's Waldo of STO.
Many are fairly obvious, yet why they are mandatory is entirely arbitrary, ISA for example.
Tom and Jerry want a new TV.
Jerry goes to work 40+ hours a week, maybe puts in some overtime, maybe has been saving up over a period of time...earns the money, has it, and buys the TV that he's entitled to because he put in the effort to get it.
Tom sits at home collecting welfare or disability, though he is not disabled and quite capable of working while living in an area with ample employment...he collects his checks, has the money, and buys the TV that he feels entitled to having.
There is a reward that requires some effort.
People put in the effort to get the reward...are entitled to the reward.
People that don't want to put the effort in to get the reward...have entitlement issues.
Except in fail queue land, Tom prevents Jerry from getting his TV he worked for and put in the effort for.
Jerry goes to work 40+ hours a week, maybe puts in some overtime, maybe has been saving up over a period of time...earns the money, has it, and buys the TV that he's entitled to because he put in the effort to get it.
Tom sits at home collecting welfare or disability, though he is not disabled and quite capable of working while living in an area with ample employment...he collects his checks, has the money, and buys the TV that he feels entitled to having.
There is a reward that requires some effort.
People put in the effort to get the reward...are entitled to the reward.
People that don't want to put the effort in to get the reward...have entitlement issues.
Overlooked something.
Jerry and Tom put some effort into thier money gathering. Tom put in WAY LESS than Jerry.
Both took the money they aquired and bought stuff. Jerry got more money than Tom in the same amount of time so got the 40inch 4k 3D TV. Tom bought the 24 in no-frills model. Both now have the tv, Jerry has the better one.
Both got a TV, one was entitled to a better TV.
(One wasn't entitled to the money in the first place, but that part of the analogy doesn't have a correlation in this particular discussion or within the game.)
All I am saying, is that if you do the content, you get rewards. All levels of content should reward the same stuff. The hard the content the proportionally better reward you get. Whether you get more of the same stuff or upgraded gear, it should be same type of stuff. Not exclusive to a specific teir. At least not stuff that is required to do other stuff not directly tied to that content, like crafting.
As far as entitlement and this game goes, in my view, we are all entitled to play the game and have fun. If you are not having fun then either there is a design flaw in the game, or the game is not for you. Seeing as at one time I did have fun in most of the content, and now I have fun in smaller sections of the content, I have the chopice of either pointing out these defiencies and try to find solutions for the devs to consider, point out the defiencies and let them change the game, not say anything and suffer, say something and quit or say nothing and quit.
I am trying to say something and try to suggest solutions. Which I think is the most responsible and productive thing to do. Don't you think so too?
Some missions do very little to make you aware of what or where the objective is. Bug hunt and its alarm bugs, for example. The Where's Waldo of STO.
Many are fairly obvious, yet why they are mandatory is entirely arbitrary, ISA for example.
I'm sitting here trying to remember if I've ever run a BHN. I'm not a big Ground person, lol, prior to running a BHE I'd only done one Ground queue since the F2P conversion (and that was by accident, one of those sector changes going to click one thing but the planet's dialog popped up in front of it). And well, that BHE was back before they fixed the mobs - so it was brutally easy, three of us (it was a fun run from some bored PvPers) got carried by a Tac and a Sci through it - went and grabbed gear, traits, and so forth to hit it up some more...yadda, yadda, yadda...rambling - but I don't think I've ever done a BHN. Are there Alarm Bugs there too? Cause that would get into one of those things of running Normal and learning what's to be expected in Advanced and Elite...things to look out for, etc, etc, etc.
I wouldn't say ISA's Mandatory Objective is arbitrary. Highly trollable? Definitely trollable. Thing is, changing that to an Optional Objective will leave it trollable...just like it was with ISE prior to DR and for how many ever hundreds of pages in the Worst STF thread were dedicated to ISE.
But the Objective itself pretty good sense, imho. The Nanites make the repairs, the group's not up to the task, retreat...make a run for it...and that's how it basically plays out. Scrub the mission...try again later.
But it's just so damn trollable and that's annoying as all get out. Hell, just had an ISA fail where somebody zipped over there and popped the first Gen...quick 2 minute something fail. It was obvious that they trolled it. There are a bunch of queues that have things like that...and...those suck.
Making them Optional doesn't make them not trollable...and...imho, actually just adds to the trollfactor of the run. Player A sabotages the rewards and you're stuck there, held hostage for who knows how long, eh? People abandoning the public queues started long before Delta Rising was ever hinted at...meh.
I still wonder if one of the reasons there is no CSE, KSE, and ISE is because they're looking at revamping them...cause they're all easily trollable queues...wouldn't know about the Ground with their missing Elites.
Even gating the queues wouldn't address the trollable nature of some of the Objectives.
Addressing that trollable nature could also help some of the "just didn't know" that can happen as well, where somebody might be hitting up a queue not knowing how things play out and they accidentally trigger that chain reaction that will cause the fail.
Imagine if they provided equally challenging Objectives that weren't subject to "oopsie" or "lawlzee" stuff, eh?
Comments
Which isn't anything I proposed. You clearly didn't read my suggestion.
And still don't address your ignorant assumption I can't complete them in you accusation. I can. I prefer to run advanced, and have no problem with our organized group that does Elites. You ignorant assumption is that because i can I must feel elitist and want to exclude anyone who can't. Sorry, no dice. I can run them and see their points equally.
They aren't proportional, they are exclusive. Again you didn't read what I suggested. Only eliminating the exclusive progression rewards. Do you always have to build strawman arguments like this to defeat rather than trying to counter what people actually say?
That you think it is about marks is ridiculous. No one has argued that mark rewards are the problem. /facepalm
Read proportional rewards eliminating exclusive items would solve the problem. People who can't do advanced won't, because they don't have to anymore. Those of use who like the challenge can do them for increased rewards and not worry about under powered captains queuing up and having to be carried or causing failure, and the difficulty can be kept high.
To me it doesn't sound like it is the challenge at all that you like, but just the exclusive rewards. If it was the challenge, you wouldn't care if they got 1 salvaged tech a week, or got a daily Neural node for example.
Proportion of 0 is well zero. Again the only ones showing entitlement are those like yourself.
So, er, I'm a little curious here...
paxdawn's showing entitlement by suggesting that those that have put in some form of effort to do more difficult content should be rewarded for doing so...
...but the opposite of that, rewarding for no effort...
...isn't showing entitlement?
Guess I'm more confused than curious with that.
I don't think the word means what you think it does.
i like exposing fallacies and hidden propaganda/agenda from other players. We even gave players who complain about this advance, options in game to solve their advance problems, which they flatly refuse for whatever reason to justify changing advance to fit their agenda. We have shrinked those wanting change to the point that we can identify advance whining as leeches themselves. When they run out of excuses try to create their own vocabulary to justify their cause.
Right man and cool.
Here they are:
Gateway to Grethor:
o Advanced now has a performance failure condition.
o Advanced now fails if the team does not save a single transport in phase 2.
o Numbers have been adjusted to provide the same as, or rewards greater than previous.
o The net total of marks should be the same as previous, or slightly higher.
o Updated the Contact to give version specific instructions on the transport phase.
o Normal has no added information.
o Advanced mentions player must save one to pass.
o Elite mentions player must save the required number to pass.
o Added Skillpoints to the rewards for optional objectives.
Brotherhood of the Sword:
o Mark rewards have been scaled down as they were initially set too high.
o Advanced no longer has required objectives.
o Instead, all potential objectives will be present during Advanced and each is able to be completed for rewards.
Herald Sphere:
o Stage 1: Advanced version can no longer be failed here.
o Stage 2: Optional bonus for Normal AND Advanced can be failed.
o The whole mission does not fail when this happens.
o Stage 3: Advanced no longer fails if timer expires
o Stage 4: Optional bonus for defeating the boss before time runs out for both Normal AND Advanced.
o Advanced does not fail when timer expires.
o Resolved an issue where optional objectives were not being included in the reward in Advanced mode
Look forward of those and whats left to fail there is seems only to be a minor participating check Cryptic said theyd leave intact. Since I, or anybody else who intend to play, should be able to handle those alone Im confident those advanced maps with the best effort/reward ratio will see to a long active live for Ico marks. I could not care less which one because all have some quality. Sphere feels fast but a bit boring towards NPC smashing, Gatway is a bit timegated so Brotherhood is kinda my favourite map for the time being, perhaps even for the next weeks to come. Marks will be reduced only in Bro. Sad but ok, I felt getting enough marks to be able to fill all Ico reput sliders on 9 toons in just one week or so a bit excessive anyway.
All in all a perfect solution on the Iconian front in my opinion. If I team up with 1-3 other player near my skill we get a fair shot at elite and if Im on my own or with inexperienced fleet mates I can handle advanced just fine. In both cases Im likely to experience a feeling of having to play for my rewards which the annoying easy normal mode constantly denied. Lets hope peeps go for the change, fill those queue lists and dont get their Ico marks on that boring Zombi world.
Good job Cryptic, now please tend to the next set of maps.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Thats just complete BS. A drain build was a complete joke? Right....:rolleyes:
Some1 mentioned HSE. When HSE apeared, a drain build was one of the best way to kill the queen cuz of its massive shield regen. In fact, I remember when I completed it back in the days, was with a breen warship drain build, with DHCs even. And also in PvP drain builds were top builds.
Thats a good joke man. I can say the same thing about players with hidden propaganda/agenda who are against this change. You try to find escuses to preserve the idiotic and imbalance state of the game. After the DPSers via DEVs brought it up to DPS plane of field (by toning the difficulty for the 2 mins ISE and such), imbalanced to beyond repair, you find escuses to maintain the status que, hidden behind "challange" reasons and whatnot. Its all about elitism and exclusiveness. Its not and never was about any challange. If it was, the ppl that liked to be challanged would brag about doing stuff in the underdogs like DHC escorts or drain builds, not how much you can stroke ISA in a BFAW Scimitar. Or go into PvP field for a real challange. But I guess its easier to stay in the PvE field and be king of the idiots, then to be a mediocre player in PvP. Its actually quite hypocritical, becouse those that scream "challange" are the ones that are looking for the easier ways lol.
And speaking again of HSE, in what world is wise
But yeah, you guys keep playing that broken record that its players fault...:rolleyes:
Who said I didn't like change. Maybe those who like to nerf it back to pre-dr are those who don't like change? Just like the dude crafting his own word entitlement, with their own created vocabulary.
we have identified the playerbase who want this, those refuses to improve self, insist on Pugging, refuse to get better team, refuse to go solo, refuse to go down to normal, refuse to go buy stuff at exchange but demands to be In advance.
PVP scenario on PVE, you must be one those large ego people who can't beat people in PvE.
If you really up for a challenge do ISA for 100k. Go to HSE and parse 50k Dps, don't die, upload in the table. It's supose to be easy for, pro forum trollers... I mean pros like you. If you can spend time posting this in the forums, there is no reason for you to not do PvE challenge within a day.
Ironic, because not one of your posts has been anything but logical fallacies. Personal attacks, strawmen, and overuse of words you don't understand the meaning of like "propaganda" and "entitlement" are all I've seen from you. And it is generally inflammatory as well. It's like you're deliberately trying to start a flame war to shut the thread down.
Ha, good one. Loving this.
Now what is this "we have identified"? So some1 putted you and a few others incharge to identify anything? I am just curious, dont take it as a personal attack or something.
And you speak of playerbase. Take a look on reddit histagram. Dude, its the majority of playerbase. Ppl put as much energy/attention in the game as they choose or can. It was like this from start. And it shouldnt be a surprise. For years those players enjoyed nice and easy content. Even the fact the old ISE was probably played millions of times indicates that. Becouse ppl sure didnt played it for a challange. Then DR hit and earnings for Cryptic were low for last quarter of 2014, then again for first quarter of 2015 culminating in major lay offs. Then Delta Recuit event hitted and was a huge succes. Still dont get why was a surprise for Cryptic. It shouldve been obvious. Players enjoyed easy content, at their own pace and without fail objectives. Thats why also open battlezones are having such a huge succes. Then S10 came, challanging players:rolleyes:.But players are barely playing that content. So after 6-8 months you still expect players to "impove"? Guess what? Reality check... wont happen in even 6 years. And the quotas are there becouse what it requires now cant be called improvement what so ever. Its just dumbing players down and turning them into mindless DPS chasing monkeys. And got a good share of those even into ISN, since ppl talked about that one. When lvling my dleta recruit, allmost everyday, there is an idiot DPSer that goes to the right side, thinking he can solo it. And he is also incompetent, since he failed every time. And some times they blame the team, not themselves lol
Also some ppl talk about desilusions, but not in the right context imo. Its desilusional to expect players to be what you want/like. And the argument: if I can do it everybody should is pathetic. STO players are what they are. To deny that would slowly kill this game. It may not mean much to you or other numbers crunching mix/maxers since you will probably move to another game since its all numbers to you. But for the majority, wich are casual Star Trek fans and not hardcore game players, it does matter alot. Some even suported the game since launch and now out of the sudden they are not "adequate" players and should go TRIBBLE themselves becouse a few, other players like you, have some desilusional views of how things should be?
And again with personal attack?
I, for one, dont have anything to prove to anyone. Especially on some made up unofficial chart:rolleyes: Again you are deluding yourself if you think that your unofficial DPS chart means anything for the playerbase.
Quoted for truth
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Yes, YEAS!
The holy STO PvE performance Inquisition has spoken.
Now these are some very SERIOUS charges RIGHT there:
You better confess to incompetence NOW or you face FAR, far worse and that If you think of yourself to be a competent player and still dare to defend your position and voice your opinion you may be found out as TROLL and get a verdict accordingly!
You do not want that to happen, DO YOU?
Oh Lord, his is not going to end well...
(lol ok, if continue to care, that is.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Now, you are basically getting carried by other's in advanced, because even sci vessels have the capability to CC + deliver more than 3k worth of dps.
And, this is what I see everyday, everyday in advanced missions, people doing 1k-3k dps day in day out, EVERYDAY!!!
Not everybody but, enough to be the root cause of failures, besides trolls/leechers.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
To be blunt, no it wasn't. Even pre-DR, 1-3k was being carried. Well, depends on what you mean by 3k...whether you're saying 1-<4k or 1-3k...cause somebody doing 3-<4k that was doing some CC or the like could be contributing. Folks doing 1-<3k were being carried.
* * * * *
But that's not what I came here to post, heh...was actually this from the ISA run I had which just failed...cracked me up something rotten.
Player D) "WHATEVER IDIOT WASTED THE GRAV WELL ON THE TRANSFORMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAIL"
Yeah, they did the all caps for it.
But anyway, this was the DPS for the group.
Player A) 26,359
Meena) 18,387
Player C) 3,891
Player D) 3,695
Player E) 1,624
Yeah, Player D was leeching.../cough
But the reason it failed on the second Transformer was from lag. The combination of how it adversely affected DPS and well I died with Player A dying 19 seconds later.
The group lost all the DPS to lag deaths (spin cycle abilities unable to be activated).
If Players C-E were doing 5-9k DPS, it would have been enough DPS to have finished off the Transformer despite the loss of Players A & B.
But Player D going off like that...given their contribution...lol. It's funny, almost all of the complaints I've seen from folks blaming something that somebody else did...has been from folks like that. Odds are pretty good that folks having read the tirade that took place there probably would figure Player D for some "elitist" DPS douchebag...but yeah, lol, no...and oh well, that's how things go...it's just a trip.
Heh, the person had GW'd the Spheres...it was just laggy as Hell, the Spheres ignored it...DPS went down the drain...and the DPS died.
But people that don't pay attention to things like to make all sorts of excuses...
See, I could see that for Elite...it being "Elite" and all that...but Advanced? It's just Advanced. Some sort of gating sure, but locking it away behind private queues? It is something that would really warrant that?
Can we please have them returned to ADV ques. I'd rather fail the entire STF than to get groups that don't even try for them.
I hate to say it. Bt the autofail optionals actually make it to where player had to learn the STF. Now without them, any trained monkey with a gun can do them. Can we turn Easy-mode back off?
That was part of the feedback offered with the ANRA test...it was ignored...it will be ignored as it's given as feedback for the changes to certain queues they made with today's patch...it will be ignored with every change they roll out for the Advanced.
Folks wanting the change just wanted to half-TRIBBLE leech their way to the VR mats...
edit: The above is a bit unfair, since not all that wanted the change actually wanted it for that reason. It's just frustrating to point out something is going to happen - have it ignored - and it happen.
Make the VR mats dependent upon completing the Optionals...if they're going to remove the Mandatory Objectives.
That is another way to do it. I've completed brotherhodd enough times already to have the shield, the weapon, the kit module, half way in to T4 rep, with 404 marks left over and 22 datacores. It wasn't hard to begin with. Just had to have someone heal the orion. The only one I could see being annoyingly hard would be Manus and saving the crew members from assimilation.
I can't select PUG teams, kinda opposite of the term. I came to this game on my own. I don't know very many people in game. And most don't play when I do.
I consider myself more of a hardcare player playing on a casuals time table. LOL.
I don't have the luxury of having a set schedule to form teams with. And I don't know that many players to boot. And I don't have the money, because I have financial responsibilties that claim far more of income than I like at times. But I am responsible for it. And I got myself into it, So I am being responsible and fulfilling those requirements first. So no, I don't have the real money to get EC. And I don't have the time nor the desire to play the Exchange Game to get EC. SO I will run the STF's because they can be fun when the team is working together.
And I didn't contradict myself. Just pointed out that I know the upped the HP bags quite a bit in the latest expansion. But at elite level, they out heal my damage, but at Advanced and Normal they don't, just takes time to kill them. Because of the fact that they have increased the HP Bags, it takes far longer now to get through the content than it once did. I was trying just to acknowledge that I realized they increased the HP bags. Not that the HP Bags were a problem for me to deal with. Maybe I justed worded it wrong.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I've pugged Brotherhood and Gateway once each. All optionals completed in Brotherhood except the Orion (as the mission should have been all along) and saved 39 transports in Gateway (in a below average dps group). Got at least as many or more marks than before.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It was a long grind at 30 min a pop, and quite depressing as well, especially for a Delta alt trying to get the rep gear.
As for the Incompetent, unskilled and new people, that is why I wouild like to remove the timers. So that PUG's can take the time to figure out those things that are needed to accomplish the completion of the STF. Like it used to be when I first started playing before this current system was put in place.
As for the Tour, I have never run it. SO don't know anything about it. I will look into it one of these days. Thanks for the tip!
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Thing is...well, it's kind of the same problem as even before Delta Rising was hinted at.
Incompetent...are they Advanced? No.
Unskilled...are they Advanced? No.
New...are they Advanced? No.
Just using the terms being used there.
But it's the same as it was before.
Normal
Elite
Now it's changed.
Normal
Advanced
Elite
But the concept is the same.
There are two doors leading to bathrooms. One has a sign saying Men's and one has a sign saying Women's.
Normal
Advanced
Elite
Signs...simple...straightforward.
New player hitting up Advanced or Elite?
Do they also go in the wrong bathrooms?
I beleive he is trying to point out that exclusive rewards completeing content at like Elite or Advanced is entitlement.
And that if the rewards were obtainable at all levels, including normal, at proportional amounts at each difficulty would be removing the entitalement, and reward those who put in the greater effort with more stuff. Something that I wouldn't mind as an idea, for then those who go to Advance, but know they can't do well, for the VR Mats would just drop back down to Normal and get better at that stage.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
you got to be level 60 and complete the mission dragons breathern
use this as a example there is no reason cryptic could not make enterance to the advanced STFs complete this solo mission...you need ( 8k ) DPS to complete it with a timer...now you can Q up for advanced missions
We could call this a qualifting mission
this would make players get better at least in build and dps......The mission could have links to ...heaven forbid tips on how to build there ships !...Imagine that !
Fail conditions just let them fail and teach nothing at all......the fail doesnt even tell them post mission why it failed
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I like this idea too. Any means in which the game can teach the players the basics would be far better than the lack of it that we have now.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
What mission doesn't show the Objectives?
What mission doesn't show that an Objective is Mandatory?
What mission when it fails doesn't have that Mandatory Objective in red?
Tom and Jerry want a new TV.
Jerry goes to work 40+ hours a week, maybe puts in some overtime, maybe has been saving up over a period of time...earns the money, has it, and buys the TV that he's entitled to because he put in the effort to get it.
Tom sits at home collecting welfare or disability, though he is not disabled and quite capable of working while living in an area with ample employment...he collects his checks, has the money, and buys the TV that he feels entitled to having.
There is a reward that requires some effort.
People put in the effort to get the reward...are entitled to the reward.
People that don't want to put the effort in to get the reward...have entitlement issues.
First guy goes, putting his X.
Second guy goes, putting his O.
First guy goes again, putting his X next to his other X.
First guy declares he's the winner.
Second guy says you need to have three in a row.
First guy says he thinks he should only have to do two to win.
Some missions do very little to make you aware of what or where the objective is. Bug hunt and its alarm bugs, for example. The Where's Waldo of STO.
Many are fairly obvious, yet why they are mandatory is entirely arbitrary, ISA for example.
Except in fail queue land, Tom prevents Jerry from getting his TV he worked for and put in the effort for.
Overlooked something.
Jerry and Tom put some effort into thier money gathering. Tom put in WAY LESS than Jerry.
Both took the money they aquired and bought stuff. Jerry got more money than Tom in the same amount of time so got the 40inch 4k 3D TV. Tom bought the 24 in no-frills model. Both now have the tv, Jerry has the better one.
Both got a TV, one was entitled to a better TV.
(One wasn't entitled to the money in the first place, but that part of the analogy doesn't have a correlation in this particular discussion or within the game.)
All I am saying, is that if you do the content, you get rewards. All levels of content should reward the same stuff. The hard the content the proportionally better reward you get. Whether you get more of the same stuff or upgraded gear, it should be same type of stuff. Not exclusive to a specific teir. At least not stuff that is required to do other stuff not directly tied to that content, like crafting.
As far as entitlement and this game goes, in my view, we are all entitled to play the game and have fun. If you are not having fun then either there is a design flaw in the game, or the game is not for you. Seeing as at one time I did have fun in most of the content, and now I have fun in smaller sections of the content, I have the chopice of either pointing out these defiencies and try to find solutions for the devs to consider, point out the defiencies and let them change the game, not say anything and suffer, say something and quit or say nothing and quit.
I am trying to say something and try to suggest solutions. Which I think is the most responsible and productive thing to do. Don't you think so too?
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I'm sitting here trying to remember if I've ever run a BHN. I'm not a big Ground person, lol, prior to running a BHE I'd only done one Ground queue since the F2P conversion (and that was by accident, one of those sector changes going to click one thing but the planet's dialog popped up in front of it). And well, that BHE was back before they fixed the mobs - so it was brutally easy, three of us (it was a fun run from some bored PvPers) got carried by a Tac and a Sci through it - went and grabbed gear, traits, and so forth to hit it up some more...yadda, yadda, yadda...rambling - but I don't think I've ever done a BHN. Are there Alarm Bugs there too? Cause that would get into one of those things of running Normal and learning what's to be expected in Advanced and Elite...things to look out for, etc, etc, etc.
I wouldn't say ISA's Mandatory Objective is arbitrary. Highly trollable? Definitely trollable. Thing is, changing that to an Optional Objective will leave it trollable...just like it was with ISE prior to DR and for how many ever hundreds of pages in the Worst STF thread were dedicated to ISE.
But the Objective itself pretty good sense, imho. The Nanites make the repairs, the group's not up to the task, retreat...make a run for it...and that's how it basically plays out. Scrub the mission...try again later.
But it's just so damn trollable and that's annoying as all get out. Hell, just had an ISA fail where somebody zipped over there and popped the first Gen...quick 2 minute something fail. It was obvious that they trolled it. There are a bunch of queues that have things like that...and...those suck.
Making them Optional doesn't make them not trollable...and...imho, actually just adds to the trollfactor of the run. Player A sabotages the rewards and you're stuck there, held hostage for who knows how long, eh? People abandoning the public queues started long before Delta Rising was ever hinted at...meh.
I still wonder if one of the reasons there is no CSE, KSE, and ISE is because they're looking at revamping them...cause they're all easily trollable queues...wouldn't know about the Ground with their missing Elites.
Even gating the queues wouldn't address the trollable nature of some of the Objectives.
Addressing that trollable nature could also help some of the "just didn't know" that can happen as well, where somebody might be hitting up a queue not knowing how things play out and they accidentally trigger that chain reaction that will cause the fail.
Imagine if they provided equally challenging Objectives that weren't subject to "oopsie" or "lawlzee" stuff, eh?