I really just want to know if we stand on some common ground somewhere.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
You want X. Some players are impeding your ability to get X. Whether it is because they are unprepared, leeching, or trolling - they are having an adverse effect on your ability to get X.
Your solutions are:
1) to make X available in Normal, with larger amounts of X available in Advanced or Elite.
2) to remove the Mandatory Objectives in Advanced to reduce the effect other players might have on your ability to get X.
* * * * *
Although my X is not an item, it's just having fun doing a run, I definitely agree that there are players out there adversely affecting my ability to have fun because they are either unprepared, leeching, or trolling.
With regard to the two solutions I believe you are offering...
1) reduces the value of X, where X is an item. It takes it from something that is meant to be rare, locked behind a certain tier of content - thus effort/difficulty to get it, and makes it something that is extremely easy to get. I posted the Exchange prices previously for the Very Rare R&D Mats...how about looking at them for the Common, Uncommon, and Rare, eh? The per Unit cheapest the Exchange currently shows. I'll include the Very Rare as well (market fluctuates and all that jazz).
Common
Duranium 461 EC
Hydrazine Gas 1429 EC
Magnesite 341 EC
Trionium Gas 114 EC
(Okay, those were an hour ago - had to watch Grimm.)
So you make those VR even more commonly available, and you further reduce their value - kind of like the others. But it's not just their value, cause their value is derived from what all the Mats can be used for - the components and items. Those too have lost value, and would lose additional value.
Some are propped up by Dil, but Dil has lost all sorts of value. It's trading at 245 Dil per Zen right now. There's no reason for it to go down anytime soon. Cryptic's made it easier than ever to get Dil, even without DOFFing - Dil's all over the place. Thus, Zen's gained in value. Not just with that, but with various items purchased with Zen.
Cryptic's doing alright there aren't they...sabotaging the economy and all....but anyway.
2) gets into the matter of just how one goes about getting the X and how long it takes, because that change will not reduce the number of unprepared folks, leeches, and trolls. It's going to increase them. Not having to worry about a queue failing is going to have more folks that were unprepared showing up, since they do not have the failure as something to dissuade them. Leeches will have to do even less. Trolls can then not only just cause the failure of an Objective, but they can hold folks hostage to the run instead of those folks being able to go something else.
* * * * *
You want X. There are people causing you not to be able to get X. Wouldn't the solution to that be some form of deterrent to those folks preventing you from being able to get X?
Devaluing X so that it's not worth doing the content to get X, isn't a content solution for getting X.
Having it so it can take 20-40+ minutes to get is going to make it not worth doing the content to get X, and will just make the content worse without providing any remedy for getting X.
Cryptic can't do anything about leeches. AFK mechanisms never work. Votekicks are chocolate ice cream to trolls, Hell, even imagine somebody just popping up that votekick in the middle of combat while you're doing something else, eh?
They could gate things to stop those unprepared folks from preventing you getting X, but that's not going to do anything about the leeches or the trolls - both can pass the gate and hinder your ability to get X.
They could make the Objectives less subject to trolling, and that's something I keep mentioning from time to time - game's just too damn trollable, but given these are the devs that initially put the Disco Balls in and with some of the things they do, it's hard not to feel like they get a kick out of trolling the players vicariously through the actions of others....so I don't see them making that change.
So how can one go about getting X without being harangued by those that would seek to prevent that or to make it more difficult?
Folks didn't just start doing the channel pugs with the launch of Delta Rising. It's been an ongoing issue for years, and the only remedy players have for a player problem is a player remedy.
There are alarm bugs on all difficulties, however spotting them remains the issue. If you don't know what to look for, you'll probably never find it. The first bug is obvious. The second comes in with the first wave so you have to look for him. The third one comes in a wave or two after the initial wave so you are already knee deep in bugs and chaos and suddenly have to find this one bug that looks so very slightly different from the others.
I think I said it earlier in this thread, I had done BHA many times without having a clue what the alarm bugs were, and this would not be any better on normal. Why? Someone else is killing them for me. I didn't know what to look for, and by the time I might find it on my own, it is already dead. If someone knows what they are, if they spot them, they can be killed fairly quickly, so one person doing it for everyone else means the rest don't get to learn what the bug is, what it looks like, or what it does.
Yes, I can definitely agree on this part, because in most cases you almost never see them, because someone else picks them off [which is fine completion wise but, confuses the heck out of other's who try to look for them].
The thing is, many ISE's I've seen salvaged after the nanites heal the transformer. It isn't a big deal. They heal it, you lose the optional reward. Okay. Now you kill them all and do it better this time. Maybe the gravwell misfired, maybe the group didn't seem like it needed it, maybe it needed three and only got one, and maybe someone didn't obey the 10% rule. Whatever went wrong, it was entirely recoverable, and you would learn that on normal too.
So to go and make it mandatory just makes no sense. It is utterly arbitrary to pick that objective and make it mandatory. Keeping it as an optional makes more sense and of course prevents trolls.
On the same note, I can't understand why BHA has alarm bugs as a mandatory optional either. We are noisily slaughtering them by the hundreds and we are supposed to believe they aren't already alerted to our presence? Absurd.
Fail conditions can be fine, if they actually make sense and aren't just tacked on arbitrarily with poor balancing and little thought behind them. ANRA shows, both now and with the previous mandatory, the devs are fairly out of touch with what the optionals/mandatories are actually demanding given the actual nature of the STF.
This part, not so much, as even normal has a mandatory objective + optional so, the only difference moving up to advanced is still a mandatory objective + optional, it's just now the mandatory objective is slightly harder to achieve.
removing a Fail and replacing it with a bonus changes nothing at all ...Except a fail and a wasted 30 minute lockout
Its a much worse place right now..................
Yes, all of this can be done now, just like in the past!
The only difference is, leechers/afkers can much more easily suffer no awards thru failures and/or, suffer afk penalties to make them think about actually doing this.
This is a form of discouragement to them, albeit the smart ones can get around it, because the penalties are not perfect but, they still discourage them.
Take these away, like so many complainers of these methods to discourage this kind of behavior and, you are in fact only encouraging this kind of behavior yourself.
The mission failures are not really that tough and, are meant to encourage good player's to work together for an actual challenge, while simultaneously discouraging bad playing/leeching/afking!
I mean, imagine if I didn't have to kill probes in KASA, I could literally do nothing pretty much, just sit there and take an hour having fun dragging out the mission, while killing 1 probe every few secs., making everyone else do the work.
This is what someone leeching would possibly do or, worse yet sit doing nothing at all, heck even dragging the enemies all the way to the other side of the stage to troll you and, not a single one would be punished in any way!
I don't get the point you're trying to make there, Virus. All of those missions require something to be done to be completed. In the last 2 you must also kill the boss. Same with Brotherhood. Also I assume in brotherhood you fail if the timer runs out in any room? I can't confirm that. Azure has the least requirements of the 4 by far.
Yes, I can confirm that. On a very bad team, wich was also stuborn and tried to get orion op aswell, we managed to fail it by raning out of time on that phase.
I can't tell you how happy I am toward the change. In any constellation I got a feeling of having to play for my rewards and probably even risk when I choose elite. Either when Im alone or in a group fun play was ensured on the map I wanted to do without the need to face that annoyingly easy normal mode. Since this isnt one of the harder maps around I think in the long run I have to ensure fun for myself there by continuously pugging elite with 1 or 2 friends tending towards the criticals.
So queue up peeps! I couldnt care less how good or bad you are because you all contribute to my gaming experience just the way I want it.
And thank you cryptic for restoring that balance to the game, keep at it.
Here, here. Totaly awesome new change, breathed some life into queues. A big Thank You to Cryptic
Ehh, no. I've been pugging for over 3 years exclusively. There was no problem at all until October last. Unless you define problem as not finishing ISE in under 60 seconds.
I have seen failures in borg ground missions in the olden times. Other than that I can not recall a single problem that stands out in thousands and thousands of runs until October 14 2014.
I have to agree. I still dont get why ppl say pre-DR the STFs were bad. Allmost everytime complleted them with optioanls, and in average of 8-12 mins. And even more, just a few months pre-DR, when I saw the changes on trible and how terribad the things were, I started to pug like hell to get various accolades. For costumes unlocks or just to complete some really long ones, like those that require 100 of each. Had khitomer and Cure on 60-80 on a few toons. So there were quite alot of them. And allmost all were a good gaming experience. Rarely encountered trolls or leachers. Maybe its about the time zone... I dont know...
Here, here. Totaly awesome new change, breathed some life into queues. A big Thank You to Cryptic
The queues didn't change at all for the rest who have been doing advance private and PuGS. It change for those who are having a hard time advance who belong to normal who insist on being advance, who happens to be a very specific base where you belong. So for you, that's a 100% increase because a player who couldn't follow nor implement objectives before now can do it without failing and which is a totally different population from the rest of the players.
Because those who were complete advance before the nerf can still do advance. Those who stay at pugs and private will stay at pug or privates. Why should these nerf change their queue habits just because now that a few extra players can do it. For them, nothing has changed. For them it has been alive for a long time since they can finish them or they are far away from PUgS.
Something else to think about in discussing various items there would be the effect of alts and the Delta Recruit event.
Like the last character I just collected on (I only did a Delta KDF, so don't have the rewards for a Delta Fed and Delta Rom as well)...
10,000 Dilithium
5,000 Fleet Dilithium Vouchers
1,000 Fleet Marks
12,000 R&D Research XP Bonus Pool
845 Fleet/Rep Marks Choice (No Iconian) (Rep can be converted to Dil)
Photonic Eng BOFF
Space/Ground Temporal Devices
But yeah, I only opened those boxes on 10 toons (guess I shouldn't have deleted that one character shortly before the Recruit event, heh)...imagine folks with 20-30+ toons, eh? Wish I'd kept track of what I'd gotten overall from all the toons there...just happened to think about it while doing it on that one so I took note of it.
What you get out of the R&D Level 1 and R&D Level 5 boxes is random, mind you. Like another one I just did was only 8 Argonite, 12 Craylon, 4 Radiogenic, 6 Trellium-K, 4 Dentarium, and no Plekton as far as VR mats (and generally got nada in general). The fun of RNG.
The queues didn't change at all for the rest who have been doing advance private and PuGS. It change for those who are having a hard time advance who belong to normal who insist on being advance, who happens to be a very specific base where you belong. So for you, that's a 100% increase because a player who couldn't follow nor implement objectives before now can do it without failing and which is a totally different population from the rest of the players.
Because those who were complete advance before the nerf can still do advance. Those who stay at pugs and private will stay at pug or privates. Why should these nerf change their queue habits just because now that a few extra players can do it. For them, nothing has changed. For them it has been alive for a long time since they can finish them or they are far away from PUgS.
Neah, it changed for everybody since the more the merrier. You are metting more new and interesting ppl and the comunity is less segregated. Its wondeful.
You are highly mistaken if you think I belong to normal. I could say the same thing about you actually. But meh... I'll let you be in your own fantasies. All your population and specific player base you have in your head are far off then you may think btw.
But non the less, these changes will help all players, regardless if they pug or not. For example, a d/c can happen in khitomer for some1 who guards the gate thus a probe may slip thru, TRIBBLE it up for the rest of the team.
Also this changes are benefic becouse of another awful trend I've noticed in wich we've identified:D a very specific player base wich doesnt belong even in a team based mission. Many DPSers put their own DPS cont over the completion of the mission. Saw this even in ISNs with my delta recruit. They go alone on the right side, becouse they do that on their main, bfawing everything for a high DPS count. They usually die at some point becouse they dont heal to make best of GDF. Then they start to blame the team becouse not enuf DPS, even tho they were the ones that caused a failure. Its mind boggling that these players, and probably you aswell, would think that some numbers from a 3rd party program would tell how good they were or "where they belong":rolleyes:
And you got 1 of these players in advanced and the mission fails. Friends from DPS channels complained that this is an irritaiting thing there too. Even more stupid the thing is that these "improved and advanced" players, who certainly dont belong even in a teamed mission, think highly of themselves (much like you probably:rolleyes:) becouse the parsers show them live some big numbers, until they die.
And this is also a problem outside borg STFs aswell. Saw this been done in Cristal Entity Advanced. Players chase DPS count, dont Rock and Roll or flee upon entity blast, to maintain GDF or gain it and they die. If there are enuf of these "improved and advanced" players in there the mission will fail.
So yep, for sure future changes to adv missions will help alot against these type of players, who certainly dont belong in a team mission, since they put a selfish goal above the mission completion goal.
This is a form of discouragement to them, albeit the smart ones can get around it, because the penalties are not perfect but, they still discourage them.
But since the discouragement is not severe enough to act as a deterrent, it's a very poor argument in favor of spoiling the fun of legitimate players. Sorry, you need something more than unsubstantiated predictions of AFKer's becoming more prevalent to claim this point as in your favor.
So, one group of vocal posters wants everyone to play a certain way vs another group of vocal posters who want everyone to play a certain way.
Meh.
For me, the removal of failures has encouraged me to try Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced. Played it 5 times, got the optional 3 out of 5. Got the rewards every time (minus the optional rewards, of course). Less rage and frustration over assigning blame and pointing fingers. More time enjoying the game. I like the changes. To each his or her own. Time will tell if the ques are revived.
Changing the mechanics to specific a playerbase needs doesnt make the game better. Auto fails only fail if the players dont follow instructions.
Why do certain players not enjoy the failure, because they fail. they fail the mission because the player or their team didnt implement the objectives of the mission.
Like I keep on saying, detriment to fun is the player who is insisting and stringent only doing stuffs rather than actually implementing the current objectives and adapting with the rest of the community by using the current mechanics.
The first rationality of advance thread nerf is that they are having a hard time. So we gave a solution. Improve self to carry the whole team. Refusal by the specific playerbase.
Second insistence is get out of PuGs and get better teams. Again refusal by the specific playerbase.
Third was insistence to PuG, Again, solution is to improve self to carry whole team. Refusal by specific playerbase.
Fourth, rationaility was wanting stay get advance rewards. But since refuse first three solutions why not go down to normal. Refused again by the playerbase.
Fifth, since refused the first fourth solutions, why not just buy the rewards instead of playing since dont want to do the first four solutions. So flaty refuse by the specific playerbase.
Every in game solution we gave is a rejection and the only solution to the specific playerbase who wants to nerf advance mission is to nerf advance mission.
Who killed their fun, the game or themselves? It is themselves. It is a self created and self inflicted problem that destroyed their fun. While the rest of the playerbase enjoys and having fun, a very specific playerbase does not for the reason that I just said.
Except that changing the mechanics for a certain playerbase is how things have been done all the time in this game.
As for Options statements....as related to me specifically...
1 I am working on it. But it is not changeing the experience
2 Can't form teams because I don't know enough people
3 Seems to be the same as 1, again working on it, but it's not changing the experience
4 Normal doen't provide the VR mats I need, so the game limits me on this, not my choice.
5 Requires giving up on what I think is fun to spend the time on the things I think are boring. Which is a detriment to my experience of the game. Not a logical option.
Every game solution is not entirely useful or logical to my conditions. And this was not a problem I had BEFORE they made the changes to the STF's. SO the issue was not created by me, but by the game designers who the change was abetter way to go. And I am sure it was for some "specific playerbase" that made complaints about it.
So who killed the fun? The Specific playebase that decried the old ways were no good, and the devs who listened and changed it. That is your own logic.
SO the issue was not created by me, but by the game designers who the change was abetter way to go. And I am sure it was for some "specific playerbase" that made complaints about it.
Scapegoating.
The devs talk about metrics quite often. Metrics showed something. The devs acted on it - like the devs often do.
But it's easier to scapegoat boogeyman as the problem than face the simple reality.
Want examples of complaints that led to changes in the queues? Go back and view all the complaints about having to do queues to get stuff...voila...all sorts of stuff outside of the queues. Guess how that affected the queues, eh? Yep.
Cryptic listens to those kind of complaints.
At some point, it will probably be even easier than it is to get the VR R&D Mats outside of queues too...
edit: And well, the folks that were asking for something more - they didn't actually get something to challenge them did they? So it precludes them as being the cause, no?
You want X. Some players are impeding your ability to get X. Whether it is because they are unprepared, leeching, or trolling - they are having an adverse effect on your ability to get X.
Your solutions are:
1) to make X available in Normal, with larger amounts of X available in Advanced or Elite.
2) to remove the Mandatory Objectives in Advanced to reduce the effect other players might have on your ability to get X.
* * * * *
Corrections
1} Make X available in Normal if all optional conditions are met, with larger amounts available in Advanced and Elite.
And Add
3) Create alternate methods to get X that does not rely on other players to get it.
The devs talk about metrics quite often. Metrics showed something. The devs acted on it - like the devs often do.
But it's easier to scapegoat boogeyman as the problem than face the simple reality.
Want examples of complaints that led to changes in the queues? Go back and view all the complaints about having to do queues to get stuff...voila...all sorts of stuff outside of the queues. Guess how that affected the queues, eh? Yep.
Cryptic listens to those kind of complaints.
At some point, it will probably be even easier than it is to get the VR R&D Mats outside of queues too...
No more scapegoating than saying what paxdawn points have been.
And you seem to like to throw out discussions where you can find derisive opposition to.
I have not scapegoated, or chased boogeymen. I have actually been trying to just say what to change to avoid issues. Paxdawn seemed dead set on blaming any request for change to 'specific playerbase' or scapgoat boogeyman as you say, and so showed him that his position is what got us here in the first place, right or wrong.
I am dealing with the simple reality that STO is the only MMO which it will take me months and possibly years, to get single character maxed out in skill and gear, while all other MMO's I play take months to max out the gear and skills in months for multiple characters.
And I play all my games as much as time permits. And I have fun in each one. STO though is the one that gives me the most frustration in it's progression methods and crafting system.
The is need. I need the mat to make the things. It's not something I can avoid and still acomplish the end result. It's a needed component to complete the task. Created by the game. I had no choice in that.
The mat is need. Now if you are trying to refer to the fact I it's content that I want to do, then yes it is a want of mine to play the content I have fun with. But Cryptic made it a necessary to do get the mats in order for me to have the fun. Do I want the mat, not really. But I need it to do what I want. Again the method to get what I need to play what I want is not my Choice. And limited to STF's or spending gobs of money. I don't find the excahnge game as fun. I never have in any MMO. So I turn to the content, which can be fun, but could be improved to the betterment of everyone.
It's either that or quit having fun in the game. I'd rather keep having fun, and find ways to make it better.
So, one group of vocal posters wants everyone to play a certain way vs another group of vocal posters who want everyone to play a certain way.
Meh.
For me, the removal of failures has encouraged me to try Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced. Played it 5 times, got the optional 3 out of 5. Got the rewards every time (minus the optional rewards, of course). Less rage and frustration over assigning blame and pointing fingers. More time enjoying the game. I like the changes. To each his or her own. Time will tell if the ques are revived.
Wont stop the forum rage though.
I like the changes too. And I would like to see more changes like this.
I am not trying to make people play a certain way, just removing or limiting the ability of people to ruin others way of playing.
Corrections
1} Make X available in Normal if all optional conditions are met, with larger amounts available in Advanced and Elite.
And Add
3) Create alternate methods to get X that does not rely on other players to get it.
So the 1) adjustment wouldn't address folks that are leeching or trolling, while also reducing the value of materials in the game and everything attached to them.
And 3) already exists. You just don't want to do it that way. 3) would also further reduce the value of the materials and everything attached to them.
The is need. I need the mat to make the things. It's not something I can avoid and still acomplish the end result. It's a needed component to complete the task. Created by the game. I had no choice in that.
It's want. You may need the mat to make things, but you want to make things. As such, the need is part of the want.
You've even stated how you want to go about getting the various items...because there are other ways. So it's even more about want. And you haven't come off as somebody doing high end PvE or PvP, so even the items in the end would be a want. All sorts of want...not much need.
Want to do this...want to do it in a certain way...to get an item you want.
Generally speaking, there's nothing wrong with that - folks have their preferences and desires. It's just that none of it is a need.
Paxdawn seemed dead set on blaming any request for change to 'specific playerbase' or scapgoat boogeyman as you say, and so showed him that his position is what got us here in the first place, right or wrong.
paxdawn and others have actually provided proof that they're not dealing with boogeymen, though. It's not scapegoating to point at the evidence...it's scapegoating to place blame without evidence. If evidence supports the conclusion, it's not a case of placing false blame.
Besides, you yourself pointed to those certain players were impeding your ability to get what you wanted, right? Yet none of your solutions address those problems. Well, no, I do believe you also mentioned making Objectives less trollable - that's something I definitely agree with...not a fan of those in the least.
His suggestions have basically boiled down to the following:
1) Get to the point you can carry the team (possibly outside of certain situations where they might still be able to troll and nothing you could do could fix) - and voila, that's a solution that deals with the same apparent people you are having trouble with, no?
2) Join various channels/etc, getting more into channel pugs/possible premades - and, voila, that's a solution that deals with the same apparent people you are having trouble with, no?
Both of those would allow you to get the X that you want, right?
But you don't want to do that.
You want to devalue everything, want to waste a lot of folks time, all so you can do what you want, in the way you want, to get what you want.
Others that don't want to devalue everything and don't want to waste folks time...well, they're not likely to agree with what you want are they?
No more scapegoating than saying what paxdawn points have been.
And you seem to like to throw out discussions where you can find derisive opposition to.
I have not scapegoated, or chased boogeymen. I have actually been trying to just say what to change to avoid issues. Paxdawn seemed dead set on blaming any request for change to 'specific playerbase' or scapgoat boogeyman as you say, and so showed him that his position is what got us here in the first place, right or wrong.
I am dealing with the simple reality that STO is the only MMO which it will take me months and possibly years, to get single character maxed out in skill and gear, while all other MMO's I play take months to max out the gear and skills in months for multiple characters.
And I play all my games as much as time permits. And I have fun in each one. STO though is the one that gives me the most frustration in it's progression methods and crafting system.
The fallacy here is, that my recently created DR, is further along apparently than your main(s).
And, it was all free!
So, the excuse of taking you years, is either from time limits for playing and/or, your own inability to further yourself.
So, one group of vocal posters wants everyone to play a certain way vs another group of vocal posters who want everyone to play a certain way.
Meh.
For me, the removal of failures has encouraged me to try Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced. Played it 5 times, got the optional 3 out of 5. Got the rewards every time (minus the optional rewards, of course). Less rage and frustration over assigning blame and pointing fingers. More time enjoying the game. I like the changes. To each his or her own. Time will tell if the ques are revived.
Wont stop the forum rage though.
Hooray there and my observation precisely. I did brotherhood advanced some two dozen times this weekend and elite probably another dozen times so perhaps we have even met. :cool:
While elite does not count because I either went in total premade or pugged it with 2 friends knowing we could trio it if we are good enough the advanced pugs I did where the most amazing ones.
On basically every run peeps were enthusiastic and eager to grab as many marks as possible by tending to the mission itself. Judging from queue numbers I noticed a cool influx in that mode comparing to normal. Cryptics shift from abandoning annoying fails to rather motivating objectives for additional mark rewards works out.
Yea sometimes I met peeps who probably not belonged there as well but I could not care less. I have enough capacity to compensate and Im eager to grow more.
I suspect that there are quiet a few players in game who reacted toward the Delta Rising change by either giving up because they did their part but once too often failed on public queues. Many others may just have joined the lower DPS channels in order to get at least to play undisrupted but otherwise would not have really bothered abut their numbers.
Now I really think those players will be back in force in public queues and judging from this map the past weekend they are.
Welcome.
Getting the new gear is no grind at all for me that way; its plain and simple challenging fun.
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Yea sometimes I met peeps who probably not belonged there as well but I could not care less. I have enough capacity to compensate and Im eager to grow more.
Had this been your attitude and every whiners attitude right at the very beginininng, there won't be a need for This thread or changes in the mechanics.
but if memory serves it right, one of the propaganda of these advance whining is the rule no one is left behind which contradicts your statement.
I guess now that you can do the nerf state, you suddenly changed tunes of who should be able to do or who should not.
Had this been your attitude and every whiners attitude right at the very beginininng, there won't be a need for This thread or changes in the mechanics.
but if memory serves it right, one of the propaganda of these advance whining is the rule no one is left behind which contradicts your statement.
I guess now that you can do the nerf state, you suddenly changed tunes of who should be able to do or who should not.
Hu, has elite been nerfed as well? I haven't realized such a fiasco paxdi.
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Hu, has elite been nerfed as well? I haven't realized such a fiasco paxdi.
Nothing to do with elite. We are talking about advance. No fiasco here. quoted what you said.
and I repeat what I said:
had this been your attitude and all other complainants about advance by being competent themselves and enought to carry the whole group/compensate in the PuGs, there should be no issue about advance changes of mechanics nor this thread.
quoted what you said.
had this been your attitude and all other complainants about advance by being competent themselves and enought to carry the whole group/compensate in the PuGs, there should be no issue about advance changes of mechanics nor this thread.
I have enough capacity to compensate and Im eager to grow more.
Alright, well if we take Bro Advanced as your discussion platform of choice the mission requirements have changed form a point where b4 the change a single individual could easily mess up the entire mission without anybody else in team being able to cope with to a point where 1-2 individuals now actually can guarantee the positive outcome (as in carry pugs) of the mission while 5 marks are lost for peeps messing up an optional most.
This mission has not become easier for me, you, or anybody else in any way. Not even the mark outcome is in danger if your good enough. Under current conditions individuals are just not in a position anymore to sabotage the whole run either out of incompetence or deliberate trolling.
Now I have no clue how my posts here constantly make you think I'm whining or anything. Current game mechanics on the said map have just shifted to a position where performance is paid while locking out single incompetent individuals being in a position to sabotage.
Yea for that I'm greatfull and before that I was displeased.
Now if your advice once too often was to have peeps which cant play advanced better stick to normal my suggestion for you stand as well: Give Elite a try buddy! Perhaps you can carry your groups there as well and I meet you in some pugs. You will find me neither to be a AFKer, troll, underperformer or whatever else youre so afraid of and what now probably contaminates the obvious subpar difficulty setting a player with your stand point and attitude should be running anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Alright, well if we take Bro Advanced as your discussion platform of choice the mission requirements have changed form a point where b4 the change a single individual could easily mess up the entire mission without anybody else in team being able to cope with to a point where 1-2 individuals now actually can guarantee the positive outcome (as in carry pugs) of the mission while 5 marks are lost for peeps messing up an optional most.
This mission has not become easier for me, you, or anybody else in any way. Not even the mark outcome is in danger if your good enough. Under current conditions individuals are just not in a position anymore to sabotage the whole run either out of incompetence or deliberate trolling.
Now I have no clue how my posts here constantly make you think I'm whining or anything. Current game mechanics on the said map have just shifted to a position where performance is paid while locking out single incompetent individuals being in a position to sabotage.
Yea for that I'm greatfull and before that I was displeased.
Now if your advice once too often was to have peeps which can’t play advanced better stick to normal my suggestion for you stand as well: Give Elite a try buddy! Perhaps you can carry your groups there as well and I meet you in some pugs. You will find me neither to be a AFKer, troll, underperformer or whatever else you’re so afraid of and what now probably contaminates the obvious sup par difficulty setting a player with your stand point and attitude should be running anyway.
The only thing I can agree with you on, is with the no fail system in place, it eliminates the trolling causing a failure factor but, it also completely eliminates the challenge factor at the same time.
I mean, what's challenging about a mission that cannot be failed?
Nothing, it's just a matter of time is all that is involved, completion thru attrition.
Because the old system, it was difficult not to fail and, the only real challenge was obtaining an optional!
edit: I questioned your definition of entitlement, if you're at all confused.
Exactly.. a strawman argument.
Instead of actually debating the point I made, you build a strawman fallacy to debate against in an act of cowardice.
Your questioning it is irrelevant and pointless given the context i gave.
And what if people have other uses for their dilithium and would rather play the game other than they way you want to force them for your own pointless elitist stance.
Just Like Pax, that your satisfaction revolves around what other players can and do get rather than just your own is the problem, not their wanting a fair shot.
Now if your advice once too often was to have peeps which can’t play advanced better stick to normal my suggestion for you stand as well: Give Elite a try buddy! Perhaps you can carry your groups there as well and I meet you in some pugs. You will find me neither to be a AFKer, troll, underperformer or whatever else you’re so afraid of and what now probably contaminates the obvious sup par difficulty setting a player with your stand point and attitude should be running anyway.
Well, I do elite. Elite is not the issue.
My issue is players wanting to play advance without actually improving self or adapting to changing mechanics. So the only solution for them is nerfing mechanics rather using the mechanics since we gave them in game mechanics solutions. Nothing to do with you not doing anything in the mission or any player but rather not increasing the level of skill or effort in the advance but wanting advance completion.
They cannot accept it is a player problem and totally insist it is a dev problem.
I merely simplified myself by quoting you here to avoid to circling explanation.
Yea sometimes I met peeps who probably not belonged there as well but I could not care less. I have enough capacity to compensate and I’m eager to grow more.
Again i repeat, Had this been everyone's attitude before hand, there is no advance problems whatsoever and there is no need for this thread. Because regardless of change of mechanics or you, as long as you and the rest wanting change mechanics keep that kind of attitude, you or any other player can compensate for all advance level difficulty stuff.
Yes it is. It is the very definition. You constructed a completely false argument and tried to attribute it to me. That is a fallacy.
You don't get to define the thread to your own liking. I disagree. I feel the thread is to find a solution equitable to both sides.
You claim you want the difficulty back. My proposal does just that. And gives those other players another option of playing the game to get the rewards they want, but in a limited fashion.
It gets them to stop queuing for Advanced and Elite unprepared, and still gives those of us doing them more rewards.
that you base your whole problem with that because you can't handle what they get is ridiculous.
So I completely question your whole basis for your stance of returning the difficulty. It isn't about that at all for you.
Which again, my suggestion puts those mechanics back and only changes how the rewards are given out.
Oh right, it actually isn't about difficulty for you it is the reward.
Trying to twist those wanting rewards eh?
The rationality of players wanting advance difficulty nerf in this thread is rewards. Not me.
If you were right at beginning of this thread or read everything that I said, my issue is with players refusing to actually use in game mechanics but demand the devs do something about it rather they themselves resolved it.
Comments
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
You want X. Some players are impeding your ability to get X. Whether it is because they are unprepared, leeching, or trolling - they are having an adverse effect on your ability to get X.
Your solutions are:
1) to make X available in Normal, with larger amounts of X available in Advanced or Elite.
2) to remove the Mandatory Objectives in Advanced to reduce the effect other players might have on your ability to get X.
* * * * *
Although my X is not an item, it's just having fun doing a run, I definitely agree that there are players out there adversely affecting my ability to have fun because they are either unprepared, leeching, or trolling.
With regard to the two solutions I believe you are offering...
1) reduces the value of X, where X is an item. It takes it from something that is meant to be rare, locked behind a certain tier of content - thus effort/difficulty to get it, and makes it something that is extremely easy to get. I posted the Exchange prices previously for the Very Rare R&D Mats...how about looking at them for the Common, Uncommon, and Rare, eh? The per Unit cheapest the Exchange currently shows. I'll include the Very Rare as well (market fluctuates and all that jazz).
Common
Duranium 461 EC
Hydrazine Gas 1429 EC
Magnesite 341 EC
Trionium Gas 114 EC
Uncommon
Hexaflourine Gas 170 EC
Thoron Particle 190 EC
Tritanium 1708 EC
Verteron Particle 200 EC
Rare
Beta-Tachyon Particle 7000 EC
Rubidium 29000 EC
Tetrazine Gas 1875 EC
Z-Particle 40000 EC
Very Rare
Argonite Gas 123334 EC
Craylon Gas 11000 EC
Dentarium 7000 EC
Plekton 85086 EC
Radiogenic Particle 115000 EC
Trellium-K 7000 EC
(Okay, those were an hour ago - had to watch Grimm.)
So you make those VR even more commonly available, and you further reduce their value - kind of like the others. But it's not just their value, cause their value is derived from what all the Mats can be used for - the components and items. Those too have lost value, and would lose additional value.
Some are propped up by Dil, but Dil has lost all sorts of value. It's trading at 245 Dil per Zen right now. There's no reason for it to go down anytime soon. Cryptic's made it easier than ever to get Dil, even without DOFFing - Dil's all over the place. Thus, Zen's gained in value. Not just with that, but with various items purchased with Zen.
Cryptic's doing alright there aren't they...sabotaging the economy and all....but anyway.
2) gets into the matter of just how one goes about getting the X and how long it takes, because that change will not reduce the number of unprepared folks, leeches, and trolls. It's going to increase them. Not having to worry about a queue failing is going to have more folks that were unprepared showing up, since they do not have the failure as something to dissuade them. Leeches will have to do even less. Trolls can then not only just cause the failure of an Objective, but they can hold folks hostage to the run instead of those folks being able to go something else.
* * * * *
You want X. There are people causing you not to be able to get X. Wouldn't the solution to that be some form of deterrent to those folks preventing you from being able to get X?
Devaluing X so that it's not worth doing the content to get X, isn't a content solution for getting X.
Having it so it can take 20-40+ minutes to get is going to make it not worth doing the content to get X, and will just make the content worse without providing any remedy for getting X.
Cryptic can't do anything about leeches. AFK mechanisms never work. Votekicks are chocolate ice cream to trolls, Hell, even imagine somebody just popping up that votekick in the middle of combat while you're doing something else, eh?
They could gate things to stop those unprepared folks from preventing you getting X, but that's not going to do anything about the leeches or the trolls - both can pass the gate and hinder your ability to get X.
They could make the Objectives less subject to trolling, and that's something I keep mentioning from time to time - game's just too damn trollable, but given these are the devs that initially put the Disco Balls in and with some of the things they do, it's hard not to feel like they get a kick out of trolling the players vicariously through the actions of others....so I don't see them making that change.
So how can one go about getting X without being harangued by those that would seek to prevent that or to make it more difficult?
Folks didn't just start doing the channel pugs with the launch of Delta Rising. It's been an ongoing issue for years, and the only remedy players have for a player problem is a player remedy.
This part, not so much, as even normal has a mandatory objective + optional so, the only difference moving up to advanced is still a mandatory objective + optional, it's just now the mandatory objective is slightly harder to achieve.
Yes, all of this can be done now, just like in the past!
The only difference is, leechers/afkers can much more easily suffer no awards thru failures and/or, suffer afk penalties to make them think about actually doing this.
This is a form of discouragement to them, albeit the smart ones can get around it, because the penalties are not perfect but, they still discourage them.
Take these away, like so many complainers of these methods to discourage this kind of behavior and, you are in fact only encouraging this kind of behavior yourself.
The mission failures are not really that tough and, are meant to encourage good player's to work together for an actual challenge, while simultaneously discouraging bad playing/leeching/afking!
I mean, imagine if I didn't have to kill probes in KASA, I could literally do nothing pretty much, just sit there and take an hour having fun dragging out the mission, while killing 1 probe every few secs., making everyone else do the work.
This is what someone leeching would possibly do or, worse yet sit doing nothing at all, heck even dragging the enemies all the way to the other side of the stage to troll you and, not a single one would be punished in any way!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yes, I can confirm that. On a very bad team, wich was also stuborn and tried to get orion op aswell, we managed to fail it by raning out of time on that phase.
Here, here. Totaly awesome new change, breathed some life into queues. A big Thank You to Cryptic
I have to agree. I still dont get why ppl say pre-DR the STFs were bad. Allmost everytime complleted them with optioanls, and in average of 8-12 mins. And even more, just a few months pre-DR, when I saw the changes on trible and how terribad the things were, I started to pug like hell to get various accolades. For costumes unlocks or just to complete some really long ones, like those that require 100 of each. Had khitomer and Cure on 60-80 on a few toons. So there were quite alot of them. And allmost all were a good gaming experience. Rarely encountered trolls or leachers. Maybe its about the time zone... I dont know...
The queues didn't change at all for the rest who have been doing advance private and PuGS. It change for those who are having a hard time advance who belong to normal who insist on being advance, who happens to be a very specific base where you belong. So for you, that's a 100% increase because a player who couldn't follow nor implement objectives before now can do it without failing and which is a totally different population from the rest of the players.
Because those who were complete advance before the nerf can still do advance. Those who stay at pugs and private will stay at pug or privates. Why should these nerf change their queue habits just because now that a few extra players can do it. For them, nothing has changed. For them it has been alive for a long time since they can finish them or they are far away from PUgS.
Like the last character I just collected on (I only did a Delta KDF, so don't have the rewards for a Delta Fed and Delta Rom as well)...
10,000 Dilithium
5,000 Fleet Dilithium Vouchers
1,000 Fleet Marks
12,000 R&D Research XP Bonus Pool
845 Fleet/Rep Marks Choice (No Iconian) (Rep can be converted to Dil)
Photonic Eng BOFF
Space/Ground Temporal Devices
5x Component - Warp Field Regulator
3x Component - Targeting Interface
7x Component - Isolinear Circuitry
6x Component - IFF Beacon
3x Component - Barrel Synchronizer
3x Component - EPS Conduit
3x Component - Firing Sequencer
2x Component - Ejection System
9x Component - Handheld Calibration Control
9x Component - Lab Equipment
3x Component - Plasma Capacitor
3x Component - Subprocessor Unit
6x Trellium-K
15x Z-Particle
15x Duranium
10x Dentarium
36x Beta-Tachyon Particle
25x Radiogenic Particle
27x Craylon Gas
12x Tetrazine Gas
15x Thoron Particle
10x Plekton
15x Hexaflourine Gas
75x Trionium Gas
4x Argonite Gas
15x Rubidium
But yeah, I only opened those boxes on 10 toons (guess I shouldn't have deleted that one character shortly before the Recruit event, heh)...imagine folks with 20-30+ toons, eh? Wish I'd kept track of what I'd gotten overall from all the toons there...just happened to think about it while doing it on that one so I took note of it.
What you get out of the R&D Level 1 and R&D Level 5 boxes is random, mind you. Like another one I just did was only 8 Argonite, 12 Craylon, 4 Radiogenic, 6 Trellium-K, 4 Dentarium, and no Plekton as far as VR mats (and generally got nada in general). The fun of RNG.
Neah, it changed for everybody since the more the merrier. You are metting more new and interesting ppl and the comunity is less segregated. Its wondeful.
You are highly mistaken if you think I belong to normal. I could say the same thing about you actually. But meh... I'll let you be in your own fantasies. All your population and specific player base you have in your head are far off then you may think btw.
But non the less, these changes will help all players, regardless if they pug or not. For example, a d/c can happen in khitomer for some1 who guards the gate thus a probe may slip thru, TRIBBLE it up for the rest of the team.
Also this changes are benefic becouse of another awful trend I've noticed in wich we've identified:D a very specific player base wich doesnt belong even in a team based mission. Many DPSers put their own DPS cont over the completion of the mission. Saw this even in ISNs with my delta recruit. They go alone on the right side, becouse they do that on their main, bfawing everything for a high DPS count. They usually die at some point becouse they dont heal to make best of GDF. Then they start to blame the team becouse not enuf DPS, even tho they were the ones that caused a failure. Its mind boggling that these players, and probably you aswell, would think that some numbers from a 3rd party program would tell how good they were or "where they belong":rolleyes:
And you got 1 of these players in advanced and the mission fails. Friends from DPS channels complained that this is an irritaiting thing there too. Even more stupid the thing is that these "improved and advanced" players, who certainly dont belong even in a teamed mission, think highly of themselves (much like you probably:rolleyes:) becouse the parsers show them live some big numbers, until they die.
And this is also a problem outside borg STFs aswell. Saw this been done in Cristal Entity Advanced. Players chase DPS count, dont Rock and Roll or flee upon entity blast, to maintain GDF or gain it and they die. If there are enuf of these "improved and advanced" players in there the mission will fail.
So yep, for sure future changes to adv missions will help alot against these type of players, who certainly dont belong in a team mission, since they put a selfish goal above the mission completion goal.
But since the discouragement is not severe enough to act as a deterrent, it's a very poor argument in favor of spoiling the fun of legitimate players. Sorry, you need something more than unsubstantiated predictions of AFKer's becoming more prevalent to claim this point as in your favor.
Meh.
For me, the removal of failures has encouraged me to try Brotherhood of the Sword Advanced. Played it 5 times, got the optional 3 out of 5. Got the rewards every time (minus the optional rewards, of course). Less rage and frustration over assigning blame and pointing fingers. More time enjoying the game. I like the changes. To each his or her own. Time will tell if the ques are revived.
Wont stop the forum rage though.
Except that changing the mechanics for a certain playerbase is how things have been done all the time in this game.
As for Options statements....as related to me specifically...
1 I am working on it. But it is not changeing the experience
2 Can't form teams because I don't know enough people
3 Seems to be the same as 1, again working on it, but it's not changing the experience
4 Normal doen't provide the VR mats I need, so the game limits me on this, not my choice.
5 Requires giving up on what I think is fun to spend the time on the things I think are boring. Which is a detriment to my experience of the game. Not a logical option.
Every game solution is not entirely useful or logical to my conditions. And this was not a problem I had BEFORE they made the changes to the STF's. SO the issue was not created by me, but by the game designers who the change was abetter way to go. And I am sure it was for some "specific playerbase" that made complaints about it.
So who killed the fun? The Specific playebase that decried the old ways were no good, and the devs who listened and changed it. That is your own logic.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
The word would be want...not need.
Scapegoating.
The devs talk about metrics quite often. Metrics showed something. The devs acted on it - like the devs often do.
But it's easier to scapegoat boogeyman as the problem than face the simple reality.
Want examples of complaints that led to changes in the queues? Go back and view all the complaints about having to do queues to get stuff...voila...all sorts of stuff outside of the queues. Guess how that affected the queues, eh? Yep.
Cryptic listens to those kind of complaints.
At some point, it will probably be even easier than it is to get the VR R&D Mats outside of queues too...
edit: And well, the folks that were asking for something more - they didn't actually get something to challenge them did they? So it precludes them as being the cause, no?
Corrections
1} Make X available in Normal if all optional conditions are met, with larger amounts available in Advanced and Elite.
And Add
3) Create alternate methods to get X that does not rely on other players to get it.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
No more scapegoating than saying what paxdawn points have been.
And you seem to like to throw out discussions where you can find derisive opposition to.
I have not scapegoated, or chased boogeymen. I have actually been trying to just say what to change to avoid issues. Paxdawn seemed dead set on blaming any request for change to 'specific playerbase' or scapgoat boogeyman as you say, and so showed him that his position is what got us here in the first place, right or wrong.
I am dealing with the simple reality that STO is the only MMO which it will take me months and possibly years, to get single character maxed out in skill and gear, while all other MMO's I play take months to max out the gear and skills in months for multiple characters.
And I play all my games as much as time permits. And I have fun in each one. STO though is the one that gives me the most frustration in it's progression methods and crafting system.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
The is need. I need the mat to make the things. It's not something I can avoid and still acomplish the end result. It's a needed component to complete the task. Created by the game. I had no choice in that.
The mat is need. Now if you are trying to refer to the fact I it's content that I want to do, then yes it is a want of mine to play the content I have fun with. But Cryptic made it a necessary to do get the mats in order for me to have the fun. Do I want the mat, not really. But I need it to do what I want. Again the method to get what I need to play what I want is not my Choice. And limited to STF's or spending gobs of money. I don't find the excahnge game as fun. I never have in any MMO. So I turn to the content, which can be fun, but could be improved to the betterment of everyone.
It's either that or quit having fun in the game. I'd rather keep having fun, and find ways to make it better.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I like the changes too. And I would like to see more changes like this.
I am not trying to make people play a certain way, just removing or limiting the ability of people to ruin others way of playing.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
So the 1) adjustment wouldn't address folks that are leeching or trolling, while also reducing the value of materials in the game and everything attached to them.
And 3) already exists. You just don't want to do it that way. 3) would also further reduce the value of the materials and everything attached to them.
It's want. You may need the mat to make things, but you want to make things. As such, the need is part of the want.
You've even stated how you want to go about getting the various items...because there are other ways. So it's even more about want. And you haven't come off as somebody doing high end PvE or PvP, so even the items in the end would be a want. All sorts of want...not much need.
Want to do this...want to do it in a certain way...to get an item you want.
Generally speaking, there's nothing wrong with that - folks have their preferences and desires. It's just that none of it is a need.
paxdawn and others have actually provided proof that they're not dealing with boogeymen, though. It's not scapegoating to point at the evidence...it's scapegoating to place blame without evidence. If evidence supports the conclusion, it's not a case of placing false blame.
Besides, you yourself pointed to those certain players were impeding your ability to get what you wanted, right? Yet none of your solutions address those problems. Well, no, I do believe you also mentioned making Objectives less trollable - that's something I definitely agree with...not a fan of those in the least.
His suggestions have basically boiled down to the following:
1) Get to the point you can carry the team (possibly outside of certain situations where they might still be able to troll and nothing you could do could fix) - and voila, that's a solution that deals with the same apparent people you are having trouble with, no?
2) Join various channels/etc, getting more into channel pugs/possible premades - and, voila, that's a solution that deals with the same apparent people you are having trouble with, no?
Both of those would allow you to get the X that you want, right?
But you don't want to do that.
You want to devalue everything, want to waste a lot of folks time, all so you can do what you want, in the way you want, to get what you want.
Others that don't want to devalue everything and don't want to waste folks time...well, they're not likely to agree with what you want are they?
The fallacy here is, that my recently created DR, is further along apparently than your main(s).
And, it was all free!
So, the excuse of taking you years, is either from time limits for playing and/or, your own inability to further yourself.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Hooray there and my observation precisely. I did brotherhood advanced some two dozen times this weekend and elite probably another dozen times so perhaps we have even met. :cool:
While elite does not count because I either went in total premade or pugged it with 2 friends knowing we could trio it if we are good enough the advanced pugs I did where the most amazing ones.
On basically every run peeps were enthusiastic and eager to grab as many marks as possible by tending to the mission itself. Judging from queue numbers I noticed a cool influx in that mode comparing to normal. Cryptics shift from abandoning annoying fails to rather motivating objectives for additional mark rewards works out.
Yea sometimes I met peeps who probably not belonged there as well but I could not care less. I have enough capacity to compensate and Im eager to grow more.
I suspect that there are quiet a few players in game who reacted toward the Delta Rising change by either giving up because they did their part but once too often failed on public queues. Many others may just have joined the lower DPS channels in order to get at least to play undisrupted but otherwise would not have really bothered abut their numbers.
Now I really think those players will be back in force in public queues and judging from this map the past weekend they are.
Welcome.
Getting the new gear is no grind at all for me that way; its plain and simple challenging fun.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
but if memory serves it right, one of the propaganda of these advance whining is the rule no one is left behind which contradicts your statement.
I guess now that you can do the nerf state, you suddenly changed tunes of who should be able to do or who should not.
Hu, has elite been nerfed as well? I haven't realized such a fiasco paxdi.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Nothing to do with elite. We are talking about advance. No fiasco here. quoted what you said.
and I repeat what I said:
had this been your attitude and all other complainants about advance by being competent themselves and enought to carry the whole group/compensate in the PuGs, there should be no issue about advance changes of mechanics nor this thread.
Alright, well if we take Bro Advanced as your discussion platform of choice the mission requirements have changed form a point where b4 the change a single individual could easily mess up the entire mission without anybody else in team being able to cope with to a point where 1-2 individuals now actually can guarantee the positive outcome (as in carry pugs) of the mission while 5 marks are lost for peeps messing up an optional most.
This mission has not become easier for me, you, or anybody else in any way. Not even the mark outcome is in danger if your good enough. Under current conditions individuals are just not in a position anymore to sabotage the whole run either out of incompetence or deliberate trolling.
Now I have no clue how my posts here constantly make you think I'm whining or anything. Current game mechanics on the said map have just shifted to a position where performance is paid while locking out single incompetent individuals being in a position to sabotage.
Yea for that I'm greatfull and before that I was displeased.
Now if your advice once too often was to have peeps which cant play advanced better stick to normal my suggestion for you stand as well: Give Elite a try buddy! Perhaps you can carry your groups there as well and I meet you in some pugs. You will find me neither to be a AFKer, troll, underperformer or whatever else youre so afraid of and what now probably contaminates the obvious subpar difficulty setting a player with your stand point and attitude should be running anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
My suggestion lets both play how they want.
The only thing I can agree with you on, is with the no fail system in place, it eliminates the trolling causing a failure factor but, it also completely eliminates the challenge factor at the same time.
I mean, what's challenging about a mission that cannot be failed?
Nothing, it's just a matter of time is all that is involved, completion thru attrition.
Because the old system, it was difficult not to fail and, the only real challenge was obtaining an optional!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Which again, my suggestion puts those mechanics back and only changes how the rewards are given out.
Oh right, it actually isn't about difficulty for you it is the reward.
Exactly.. a strawman argument.
Instead of actually debating the point I made, you build a strawman fallacy to debate against in an act of cowardice.
Your questioning it is irrelevant and pointless given the context i gave.
And what if people have other uses for their dilithium and would rather play the game other than they way you want to force them for your own pointless elitist stance.
Just Like Pax, that your satisfaction revolves around what other players can and do get rather than just your own is the problem, not their wanting a fair shot.
Well, I do elite. Elite is not the issue.
My issue is players wanting to play advance without actually improving self or adapting to changing mechanics. So the only solution for them is nerfing mechanics rather using the mechanics since we gave them in game mechanics solutions. Nothing to do with you not doing anything in the mission or any player but rather not increasing the level of skill or effort in the advance but wanting advance completion.
They cannot accept it is a player problem and totally insist it is a dev problem.
I merely simplified myself by quoting you here to avoid to circling explanation.
Again i repeat, Had this been everyone's attitude before hand, there is no advance problems whatsoever and there is no need for this thread. Because regardless of change of mechanics or you, as long as you and the rest wanting change mechanics keep that kind of attitude, you or any other player can compensate for all advance level difficulty stuff.
Yes it is. It is the very definition. You constructed a completely false argument and tried to attribute it to me. That is a fallacy.
You don't get to define the thread to your own liking. I disagree. I feel the thread is to find a solution equitable to both sides.
You claim you want the difficulty back. My proposal does just that. And gives those other players another option of playing the game to get the rewards they want, but in a limited fashion.
It gets them to stop queuing for Advanced and Elite unprepared, and still gives those of us doing them more rewards.
that you base your whole problem with that because you can't handle what they get is ridiculous.
So I completely question your whole basis for your stance of returning the difficulty. It isn't about that at all for you.
Trying to twist those wanting rewards eh?
The rationality of players wanting advance difficulty nerf in this thread is rewards. Not me.
If you were right at beginning of this thread or read everything that I said, my issue is with players refusing to actually use in game mechanics but demand the devs do something about it rather they themselves resolved it.