So...calling somebody a special snowflake isn't name calling in your book? Gotya. Well fine, I will tone down my insults to that level then...will that make you happy (actually I won't)?
And here is the key bit...I am NOT for some please understand me TRIBBLE. Since my goal isn't to convince people that I am a nice guy, I don't have to be nice. JJ and milli are at least in their words trying to make the DPS crowd not seems like jerks and the source of all wrongs. I agree with that. They however did not start off saying it very nicely...and when called on it started to get even less nice. If their goal is to convince people that the DPS folks are nice people...that is kind of an epic fail.
You might want to spend a little time rereading or maybe even for the first time reading the ToS. You do in fact have to be respectful to others on these forums.
They however did not start off saying it very nicely...
What does this even mean?
Do you really expect everyone to start a conversation begging forgiveness for the slightest offense you may take at their next statement?
Does everything need to be wrapped in some clause specifying that in no way what is being said is intended to be an attack on anyone reading the thread, or anyone not reading the thread but who may still take offense to it based on a second-hand interpretation of it?
Should every thread start with a trigger warning? Caution: Discussion of DPS in any form has been known to generate offense and induce rage.
Why won't you take my suggestion to repost the original thread, but edited for your approval?
So that I can actually see what it is you're trying to get across when you say something like "they did not start off saying it very nicely..."
Because that just sounds like the whining of an entitled twenty something, whose lost all sense due to PC indoctrination.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Look. You two aren't going to convince each other, so move on and stop making yourselves (and any groups you're affiliated with) look bad.
And to move on, I propose reason number 11:
11: They're a source of inspiration.
I realize this isn't for everyone. There's people who don't care at all, who aren't in any kind of a competition with anyone, and that's cool. But for people who do want that kind of a challenge, this is it. Whether it's making it to the next channel up, getting past the next 10k barrier, getting into the top 2500/1000/500/100/50/15/whatever it be, or just staying above one person or above the other people in your career (The dps league forums have the top 5 of each career ranked, in addition to the Eng/Sci next to engineers and science captains on the table), there's a good source of friendly competition and inspiration. And I've never seen anyone be secretive about the build, team composition, mechanics, piloting, or whatnot that they used to get there. That, to me, is pretty awesome.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Before I learned about the DPS leagues, I had just been building my own ships and parsing with ACT. I was at 26k or so in ISE, and satisfied because I was solidly one of the better performers all the PUGs and PESTF groups.
At the same time though, there wasn't really anything to do. Let's face it, STO doesn't really have much to do once you've done all the missions if you aren't interested in the Foundry. I'd done all the content, I was bored with all the content, there was nothing to work on, no goal.
The DPS league/channels piqued my interest in STO again. It made me take a closer look at what I was doing, it gave me something to work on, and with the exception of maybe two individuals (who I don't actually recall the names of), it's been full of helpful advice and answers to whatever questions I've had.
Despite some people that claim the DPS oriented players are mindless exploiters, they are not. They know how the game works and how to optimize their playing and their builds.
I'm really liking your posts of late, rodentmaster!
The above stuck especially out as true to me. To paraphrase the man,
"Any sufficiently developed knowledge, to the unknowledgeables, looks like an exploit."
Because it sounds like it takes more skill to set up another player for a record-breaking run than is needed by the player actually generating the DPS in that record breaking run.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Because it sounds like it takes more skill to set up another player for a record-breaking run than is needed by the player actually generating the DPS in that record breaking run.
What does that have to do with what I just said or what I was responding to?
However since milli is speaking about YOUR group and has becomes associated with your group in this discussion...even if he says otherwise...I would think you would be less then happy with how this is making the DPS league look.
So hypothetically, if I was the OP of this thread, even if I was to laden the thread with all sorts of statements saying something to the effect that I am in no way attempting to disparage others, even if I go to the greatest of lengths to avoid trying to offend anyone, you'll still read something into that isn't even there?
Can you please provide a copy of the OP edited to your approval? That would really serve to end any debate you and I are having on the subject, because then there would be something you could readily point to that clarifies your position.
What does that have to do with what I just said or what I was responding to?
Only that neither list involves skill.
You're right, there was no skill involved in plasma doping or using EAP.
EDIT: With the exception of the theorycrafting involved in discovering their associated bugs, even if that was as simple as equipping EAP and comparing DPS - the tooltip, to me, suggested that it was a weak trait that wasn't worth slotting given the limited number of space rep trait slots.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
You're right, there was no skill involved in plasma doping or using EAP.
EDIT: With the exception of the theorycrafting involved in discovering their associated bugs, even if that was as simple as equipping EAP and comparing DPS - the tooltip, to me, suggested that it was a weak trait that wasn't worth slotting given the limited number of space rep trait slots.
Actually contrary to popular belief you still need skill in plasma doping to proc. To maximize plasma doping, you need better positioning hence better piloting. You wont get any enough procs if you are 10kms away from the mobs nor in a position not within range of all mobs. thats why dps in plasma doping are more fluctuating than not plasma doping.
The EAP fix and plasma doping fix is anti masses since the top tier DPSers can repeat those records without plasma doping or EAP fix. Since with EAP not being fix, groups at lower channels or PuGs dont need a support ship. At top tier DPS, they have access to the best support pilots/ships and tanking pilots and ships. So lower channels or PuGs cannot repeat their DPS before the fix.
Also plasma doping also gives the same non support function for lower DPS groups or PuGs. because plasma doping skips shields, goes directly to the debuffed hulls rather needing to pass thru shields like weapons.
The only thing that would harm the top dpsers on EAP fix and plasma doping is that they cannot do 100k dps or more now in PuGs which is more luxury than practical. You would see less of the top tier DPSers in PuGs helping the PuGs survive.
So, the fix is literally saying, go Pro or go Home.
Also too, why can't you have 10K dps *and* heals? There's nothing preventing that. I hit 20K DPS on my drain build last night: a sci ship where I have only 1 tactical console, 2 tactical boff abilities, and everything else is devoted to flow caps or drains (which doesn't count towards DPS). If I changed all my drain abilities for healing abilities and skills, my DPS would be unaffected in ISA.
Agreed. I'm a sci commander, and I use my inherent buffs / debuffs to increase my DPS. And I heal like a crazy person, so I can sit right up close and personal to a Generator in ISA and help blow it as quickly as possible, while Spheres try to murder me on all facings.
There's nothing wrong with a sci player - just gotta know how to make the most out of the specialized options.
So...calling somebody a special snowflake isn't name calling in your book? Gotya.
My commander, Triana, is a special snowflake. I admitted that very fact a few posts back, when I detailed some of the quirks I'll leave in my build no matter what (link to that post). There are multiple ways to play the game, and they're all fine. The key that I've hammed in on is, if you're running a special or fun build, you can't get up in arms about not being able to contribute in Advanced or Elite content. In my case, I don't expect to get much over 20K with my build, because I've left in some sub-par equipment for fun - but I won't whine that I can't break 50K, because I understand that the choices / sacrifices I've made in my build limit me to around 20K.
You're right, there was no skill involved in plasma doping or using EAP.
EDIT: With the exception of the theorycrafting involved in discovering their associated bugs, even if that was as simple as equipping EAP and comparing DPS - the tooltip, to me, suggested that it was a weak trait that wasn't worth slotting given the limited number of space rep trait slots.
okay you do realize the definition of an exploit is basically taking advantage of bugs to gain advantages in gameplay right?
so basically your saying that in order to increase your dps people are in fact resorting to an exploit and calling it 'legitimate" gameplay and then using the dps numbers as a way to say "hey look at me my dps is awesome here is a thread about the awesome 30k+ people and why our channels rock!'
which brings me back to the people who cried fowl because they got caught when delta rising launched grinding 17x faster and I will leave it at that.
Yeah thanks but no thanks I wont be joining any channels that require me to exploit and segregate me when I dont :P
ummax, can it. You clearly have a predefined notion and nothing will sway you. Not even facts or logic. So stop trolling and stirring up TRIBBLE in a thread that was never meant for that.
ummax, can it. You clearly have a predefined notion and nothing will sway you. Not even facts or logic. So stop trolling and stirring up TRIBBLE in a thread that was never meant for that.
Just because my experiences and understanding is different then yours does not mean its "trolling".
You just had a member post that some people are "theorycrafting" to find bugs and figure how to make them work consistently. I replied.
Q.E.D.
I did not say it. I simply quoted it and then posted the definition of an exploit. I have no influence over the actions or statements of people in this thread and what they write on the message board in your thread. I do however have equal right to respond constructively to these statements and respond if I see fit.
Here are my comments on high DPS in general and the OP post as its statement.
PUG's can be anything, a random group of players that form a team. Those players can be good or bad. Don't complain about PUG"s, succes or failure are both in. BTW if I was manager of a game like this, I would be interested how PUG's perform in group content. Most new players will have their first time experience with group content in a PUG. If that is always a bad one, something has to be done.
Players can also use a channel to form a group. Channels are good for like minded players. So groups formed with channels are more or less premades. The title reads as if it says Premade matches are better than Pugs. Well, captain Obvious, nice to meet you.
The reads also in another way, if I consider the OP post. DPS channels are good for this game and its players. I say no, for some players, yes, certainly not for the game. It is as we should be happy with these channels. I am not, because underlying is a a bad game system. We can argue if it is just bad or very bad.
Nothing is wrong with being good in something, nothing is wrong with setting specific game goals, looking for like minded players and play together. That is fine. What is not so fine is coming to the community and bragging about it. That is happening. Post about your high dps build in the PvE/builds forum and discuss it there.
The OP is a reaction post to negative responses on 'Look how good we are' posts. We are going a step further now. We high DPS'rs are good, but we are also good for you. Thanks to us, you can also be good. Yeah good with DPS, which is still a niche to play, a specific style. In a game that has, let me say it mildly, interesting mechanics.
Now a lot a players like big numbers, big is better, always. So I am afraid that this trend may become a standard and that is why I am not happy. In my book the high DPS'rs are part of the problem, not a solution.
What is the problem? The game is casual and is not a good base for any kind of serious competition. If that happens, I like to see that it is fitted into a niche, not a standard play style. Because the casual concept, you can make your high DPS build. The game makers had no eye for this aspect. I am guessing here, because I was not there of course. High DPS'rs are not exploiting, but it is right next to it. Suppose it is exploiting, what would be different. That is what I mean with bad game design. It is not clear if it is exploiting or not, or, normal game play can bring situations that are similar to exploiting.
I don't need to be good in a bad game. Nonetheless, I like this game, because there is so much more than doing high DPS.
I dont think dps players are bad or good but if new player in this game needs to have gear or specific build to enter your secret dps society,you promote elitism and thats just wrong and bad for game..
And astonishingly, you need neither of that for 10k. The variety of builds which can do it is quite big. And 10k is just a bit over the minimum dps required to be able to get the optionals done (CC helps in not failing them instantly, but dps is needed to get them in time).
You are wasting your breath. They cant see pass they own egos and parsers and they are extremly short sighted ppl who cant even take responsability for their own actions. And no matter how much PR paint they apply, the DPS comunity's malicious actions speak otherwise. Its one of the most wretched lot one could ever meet in a game. They say one thing, that they dont want to impose their gameplay style on others, yet everything they do is exactly the opposite.
You'll forgive me , but I find both to be highly revolting behavior (and you can save me your "you're not good enough" speeches , as I have gotten invited to two different DPS channels .
I chose to decline .
So they only lead them , is that it ?
'Cuz we've had Ryan (yes , that Ryan , who goes here by EzriRyan) make a perfect fool of himself calling ppl "scrubs" ("because it's in a book" -- according to him) , and we've had more then a few theories on why we go such HP bags in DR (see Sarcasm Detector's trololol ISE vids prior to DR for more clues) .
So...calling somebody a special snowflake isn't name calling in your book? Gotya. Well fine, I will tone down my insults to that level then...will that make you happy (actually I won't)?
And here is the key bit...I am NOT for some please understand me TRIBBLE. Since my goal isn't to convince people that I am a nice guy, I don't have to be nice. JJ and milli are at least in their words trying to make the DPS crowd not seems like jerks and the source of all wrongs. I agree with that. They however did not start off saying it very nicely...and when called on it started to get even less nice. If their goal is to convince people that the DPS folks are nice people...that is kind of an epic fail.
Well, as a member of the dps channels, I do have a few opinions. . .
First, people like coldnpalm are those who will argue a point to the ground even when they know they are wrong--they are simply incapable of admitting that they have lost an argument. He is using classic straw man, non secquitur arguments to troll this thread, that accompanied by blatant hypocrisy and a compulsion to "have the last word," truly shows a lack of maturity and and an ability to have a serious discussion. Proof? Well he calls out those in the DPS channels for being elitist, intolerant, and calling others name, all the while behaving as an elitist, intolerant and calling people names in here--stunning actually. That being said, what I can not quite figure out is why is he so passionate about deriding those in the league?
Mosul and aefwin are known trolls and it is best to simply ignore them. Look at their descriptions regarding the channels and the people in there: "malicious, revolting behavior, short sighted, I don't have to be nice, etc. . . ." Yet, all-the-while they are telling us that we are the ones exhibiting this behavior--again stunning hypocrisy.
As for calls to close the channels? Again, why? Simply don't join them. Why must you enforce your "idea" of conformity on everyone else? These are OPTIONAL "private" channels maintained for like minded individuals. No one is making you join the channels, nor is anyone making you reply in this thread--yet you seem to hold quite a bit of animosity towards the Channels and League--so much so that you guys are making most of the posts in here. Again, why?
Let me give you a little history of the league and why it was formed. The first of the dps-channels was dps-5000. It was formed because a group of like minded players were tired of failed stf runs and inconsistent elitestf and publicelite runs. It was originally a group of about 5-12 players (mostly from friends list). Standards were set and the recruiting began, in earnest. Different from the existing channels already in place what that there was a "qualifying" aspect to gain entrance into the channel. Why? Simple: To make runs where the players had a reasonable expectation of other player's ability. As more and more players joined the channels, and more and more friendships developed, theory crafting led to better and better builds. Thus a "higher" level of game play developed which necessitated a dps-11,000, dps-20,000 channels and the birth of the DPS League. When the League was originally discussed and laid out, the premise was to set channel names and gateways to "push" players to excel. There was a clear deliminator on what was required to get into next channel based on channel name, etc. And, as they accounted for basic human nature, they knew that most people want to be in the best (and highest) dps channels thus competition was inherit. And the DPS escalation began.
This was the intent, and this is what was achieved. Furthermore, the channels were set up with the ethos of helping others and disseminating knowledge to all the channels. They simply requested that if you asked for help, that you would actually listen to those trying to help you. So far, it has worked brilliantly.
Now, the channels were never crammed down anyone's throat. Yet, they seem to be a target for some players--mainly those who are against dps. Furthermore, the channels were policed quite vigorously by the admins who monitored and removed attitudes and disruptive and abusive people. With THOUSANDS of people in the channels, is it perfect?--or course not, but they do what they can and continue to remove those not complaint to the ethos of the channels. But with such a broad range of countries, cultures, ages, maturity levels, mental issues (depression, bi-polar, even schizophrenia, etc.), it is impossible to not have asshats marring the DPS Channels reputation. But they do their best to eliminate such behavior.
If you do not want to chase dps, then don't. Go form your own set of channels, I am sure there is a demand for your style of play. But why must you call out and try to take down the DPS channels? If you truly did not care, then why are you posting in threads like this? A thread like this should bother you one little bit. The dps channels shouldn't give you a moments thought. Yet is seems to be the same bunch of characters always complaining.
Anyway, I am very proud of the Channels and what they represent. I am grateful for the knowledge I have learned and that is freely shared in there. I am humbled by the friends I made in the channels. I know that I, for one, would have quite this game years ago if not for the channels. I could not imagine "going alone" in this game. Fleets offer some help, but most fleets are dead--I like to think of the channels as my fleet, and my actual fleet as my "shopping mall."
So, open your mind and enough with the hate. The channels are simply what they are: A place of like minded individuls
If you made it this far, I also appreciate you taking the time to read the ramblings of an old man.
When it comes to using the Channels to set up a match, there isn't any real difference between doing so there and doing so in one's Fleet Channel.
As I said earlier in the thread, I have met some good people in the Channels (Ryan_STO is actually one of them, he's a pretty cool guy).
On the flip side, as I also said, I have encounter d-waffles that are members of the Channels. Haven't run into them in game really since I had to deal with them on Facebook, but the chance of running across them in game is what makes me not want to go beyond 30k.
It isn't the Channels that people are targeting, but rather the "d-waffles" that are interspersed amongst the good people.
So they only lead them , is that it ?
'Cuz we've had Ryan (yes , that Ryan , who goes here by EzriRyan) make a perfect fool of himself calling ppl "scrubs" ("because it's in a book" -- according to him) , and we've had more then a few theories on why we go such HP bags in DR (see Sarcasm Detector's trololol ISE vids prior to DR for more clues) .
(..)
Have they somehow "earned" the way to talk down on others based on their performances ?
Not in my book ... -- but then again , I don't worship the parser like some folks do.
Haha! Didn't know about the "scrubs" thing. That is, indeed, funny. In his vids I've seen, and the few times I've spoken with him, in chat, he is actually surprisingly modest and soft-mannered, though.
As to whether he has the right, lemme put it this way: people, for example, are throwing the word n00b around here way too often. If RyanSTO does it, though, he kinda *does* have a right to call other 'scrubs' -- because, compared to him, they really are. Or, at least, when he does it, it's actually based in truth. Whether it's a particularly wise thing to say, I'll leave that in the middle. But he no doubt sees me as a 'scrub' too; and I can't say I really feel all that offended by it. When you're doing 170k, and I do only 30k, then yeah, I'm a total noob by comparison. No contest.
P.S. I don't worship a parser, btw; but I do respect fellow players who, demonstritavely, out-DPS me by an order of magnitude.
It isn't the Channels that people are targeting, but rather the "d-waffles" that are interspersed amongst the good people.
Well , it's that , but not just that .
There are a lot of good ppl who play in these channels , but some of the corrosive attitude is not restricted to said channels .
I have been parsed nearly regularly in PESTF , in queue PUG runs , on ground runs , heck even in runs on Normal what were intended to show newbies the ropes (sometimes but not always followed by the usual variant of egotistical rants) .
Thus , while I can't speak for anyone else , I can freely say that I do in fact quite dislike being parsed for several reasons -- not just the numbers worship but the stinking attitude that comes along with it from certain ppl in various channels .
Well that , and there is also the "Columbus Attitude" of having "discovered" America ... , from ppl who were not here since the beginning of this game and now have (through their demeanor , attitude and at times actions) seem to convey that they are some sort of "standard" bearers .
Forgive us if some of the "natives" find your attitudes funny at best .
When I take the "scrubs" attitude together with the "Half ways trying" and the "I don't want to carry ppl" (but has no problem being carried for a DPS show in a T1 ship) -- I get the impression that some ppl at least talk the talk , but do not walk the walk -- as far as the DPS channels being all about "nice players" .
So Porchsong , next time you want to show up and talk about the "stunning hypocrisy" of others , be sure that those who you're here to defend are not guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse others of being .
If RyanSTO does it, though, he kinda *does* have a right to call other 'scrubs' -- because, compared to him, they really are. Or, at least, when he does it, it's actually based in truth.
Truth is a funny thing .
A large percent of the playerbase (even some of the highest DPS-ers) came to STO after it went F2P .
I never greeted any of them with terms like "freeloaders" , "newbies" or anything else .
Let's just say that that was not the attitude that was displayed in return from some of these folk .
You're welcome to respect the "stripes" that Ryan and his type have earned in your eyes .
I OTOTH see their choice of words , the attitude behind those words , and it makes me want none of dat .
After all , when you forget that you are just as equal a human being as the next guy ... , well ... *shrug* .
And if it stopped there , meh .
But when that attitude is carried over to how you address any potential Devs that you seek to interact with :
" Use one of your non dev accounts, no pink text in the DPS channels." -- sarcasmdetector
Well , you have what you have .
Kings of their own little ant hill ... , with all the imaginary rights and self bestowed privileges there in ... .
... or in other words , remind me when you meimeitoo took upon yourself to literally tell a Dev what to do in his own fraking game , if he wanted to partake in your agust company ... ?
Comments
You might want to spend a little time rereading or maybe even for the first time reading the ToS. You do in fact have to be respectful to others on these forums.
But, I really wish whoever is in your life the best. They should get paid overtime for working so diligently to keep from offending you.
Hey, at least I do so. You just continue spewing baseless accusations.
Do you really expect everyone to start a conversation begging forgiveness for the slightest offense you may take at their next statement?
Does everything need to be wrapped in some clause specifying that in no way what is being said is intended to be an attack on anyone reading the thread, or anyone not reading the thread but who may still take offense to it based on a second-hand interpretation of it?
Should every thread start with a trigger warning? Caution: Discussion of DPS in any form has been known to generate offense and induce rage.
Why won't you take my suggestion to repost the original thread, but edited for your approval?
So that I can actually see what it is you're trying to get across when you say something like "they did not start off saying it very nicely..."
Because that just sounds like the whining of an entitled twenty something, whose lost all sense due to PC indoctrination.
And to move on, I propose reason number 11:
11: They're a source of inspiration.
I realize this isn't for everyone. There's people who don't care at all, who aren't in any kind of a competition with anyone, and that's cool. But for people who do want that kind of a challenge, this is it. Whether it's making it to the next channel up, getting past the next 10k barrier, getting into the top 2500/1000/500/100/50/15/whatever it be, or just staying above one person or above the other people in your career (The dps league forums have the top 5 of each career ranked, in addition to the Eng/Sci next to engineers and science captains on the table), there's a good source of friendly competition and inspiration. And I've never seen anyone be secretive about the build, team composition, mechanics, piloting, or whatnot that they used to get there. That, to me, is pretty awesome.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Before I learned about the DPS leagues, I had just been building my own ships and parsing with ACT. I was at 26k or so in ISE, and satisfied because I was solidly one of the better performers all the PUGs and PESTF groups.
At the same time though, there wasn't really anything to do. Let's face it, STO doesn't really have much to do once you've done all the missions if you aren't interested in the Foundry. I'd done all the content, I was bored with all the content, there was nothing to work on, no goal.
The DPS league/channels piqued my interest in STO again. It made me take a closer look at what I was doing, it gave me something to work on, and with the exception of maybe two individuals (who I don't actually recall the names of), it's been full of helpful advice and answers to whatever questions I've had.
I'm really liking your posts of late, rodentmaster!
The above stuck especially out as true to me. To paraphrase the man,
"Any sufficiently developed knowledge, to the unknowledgeables, looks like an exploit."
Plasma Doping or the knowingly bugged Enhanced Armor Penetration or what other tricks? Obviously pure skill.
Because it sounds like it takes more skill to set up another player for a record-breaking run than is needed by the player actually generating the DPS in that record breaking run.
What does that have to do with what I just said or what I was responding to?
Can you please provide a copy of the OP edited to your approval? That would really serve to end any debate you and I are having on the subject, because then there would be something you could readily point to that clarifies your position.
Only that neither list involves skill.
You're right, there was no skill involved in plasma doping or using EAP.
EDIT: With the exception of the theorycrafting involved in discovering their associated bugs, even if that was as simple as equipping EAP and comparing DPS - the tooltip, to me, suggested that it was a weak trait that wasn't worth slotting given the limited number of space rep trait slots.
Actually contrary to popular belief you still need skill in plasma doping to proc. To maximize plasma doping, you need better positioning hence better piloting. You wont get any enough procs if you are 10kms away from the mobs nor in a position not within range of all mobs. thats why dps in plasma doping are more fluctuating than not plasma doping.
The EAP fix and plasma doping fix is anti masses since the top tier DPSers can repeat those records without plasma doping or EAP fix. Since with EAP not being fix, groups at lower channels or PuGs dont need a support ship. At top tier DPS, they have access to the best support pilots/ships and tanking pilots and ships. So lower channels or PuGs cannot repeat their DPS before the fix.
Also plasma doping also gives the same non support function for lower DPS groups or PuGs. because plasma doping skips shields, goes directly to the debuffed hulls rather needing to pass thru shields like weapons.
The only thing that would harm the top dpsers on EAP fix and plasma doping is that they cannot do 100k dps or more now in PuGs which is more luxury than practical. You would see less of the top tier DPSers in PuGs helping the PuGs survive.
So, the fix is literally saying, go Pro or go Home.
Agreed. I'm a sci commander, and I use my inherent buffs / debuffs to increase my DPS. And I heal like a crazy person, so I can sit right up close and personal to a Generator in ISA and help blow it as quickly as possible, while Spheres try to murder me on all facings.
There's nothing wrong with a sci player - just gotta know how to make the most out of the specialized options.
My commander, Triana, is a special snowflake. I admitted that very fact a few posts back, when I detailed some of the quirks I'll leave in my build no matter what (link to that post). There are multiple ways to play the game, and they're all fine. The key that I've hammed in on is, if you're running a special or fun build, you can't get up in arms about not being able to contribute in Advanced or Elite content. In my case, I don't expect to get much over 20K with my build, because I've left in some sub-par equipment for fun - but I won't whine that I can't break 50K, because I understand that the choices / sacrifices I've made in my build limit me to around 20K.
Either way, I fail to see the namecalling.
yeah probably ure right its all just bug abuse no1 can du more dmg than 5k dps with an escort tanks do 2k and sci 3k dps
okay you do realize the definition of an exploit is basically taking advantage of bugs to gain advantages in gameplay right?
so basically your saying that in order to increase your dps people are in fact resorting to an exploit and calling it 'legitimate" gameplay and then using the dps numbers as a way to say "hey look at me my dps is awesome here is a thread about the awesome 30k+ people and why our channels rock!'
which brings me back to the people who cried fowl because they got caught when delta rising launched grinding 17x faster and I will leave it at that.
Yeah thanks but no thanks I wont be joining any channels that require me to exploit and segregate me when I dont :P
Just because my experiences and understanding is different then yours does not mean its "trolling".
You just had a member post that some people are "theorycrafting" to find bugs and figure how to make them work consistently. I replied.
Q.E.D.
I did not say it. I simply quoted it and then posted the definition of an exploit. I have no influence over the actions or statements of people in this thread and what they write on the message board in your thread. I do however have equal right to respond constructively to these statements and respond if I see fit.
and thus I have!
PUG's can be anything, a random group of players that form a team. Those players can be good or bad. Don't complain about PUG"s, succes or failure are both in. BTW if I was manager of a game like this, I would be interested how PUG's perform in group content. Most new players will have their first time experience with group content in a PUG. If that is always a bad one, something has to be done.
Players can also use a channel to form a group. Channels are good for like minded players. So groups formed with channels are more or less premades. The title reads as if it says Premade matches are better than Pugs. Well, captain Obvious, nice to meet you.
The reads also in another way, if I consider the OP post. DPS channels are good for this game and its players. I say no, for some players, yes, certainly not for the game. It is as we should be happy with these channels. I am not, because underlying is a a bad game system. We can argue if it is just bad or very bad.
Nothing is wrong with being good in something, nothing is wrong with setting specific game goals, looking for like minded players and play together. That is fine. What is not so fine is coming to the community and bragging about it. That is happening. Post about your high dps build in the PvE/builds forum and discuss it there.
The OP is a reaction post to negative responses on 'Look how good we are' posts. We are going a step further now. We high DPS'rs are good, but we are also good for you. Thanks to us, you can also be good. Yeah good with DPS, which is still a niche to play, a specific style. In a game that has, let me say it mildly, interesting mechanics.
Now a lot a players like big numbers, big is better, always. So I am afraid that this trend may become a standard and that is why I am not happy. In my book the high DPS'rs are part of the problem, not a solution.
What is the problem? The game is casual and is not a good base for any kind of serious competition. If that happens, I like to see that it is fitted into a niche, not a standard play style. Because the casual concept, you can make your high DPS build. The game makers had no eye for this aspect. I am guessing here, because I was not there of course. High DPS'rs are not exploiting, but it is right next to it. Suppose it is exploiting, what would be different. That is what I mean with bad game design. It is not clear if it is exploiting or not, or, normal game play can bring situations that are similar to exploiting.
I don't need to be good in a bad game. Nonetheless, I like this game, because there is so much more than doing high DPS.
And astonishingly, you need neither of that for 10k. The variety of builds which can do it is quite big. And 10k is just a bit over the minimum dps required to be able to get the optionals done (CC helps in not failing them instantly, but dps is needed to get them in time).
Well, as a member of the dps channels, I do have a few opinions. . .
First, people like coldnpalm are those who will argue a point to the ground even when they know they are wrong--they are simply incapable of admitting that they have lost an argument. He is using classic straw man, non secquitur arguments to troll this thread, that accompanied by blatant hypocrisy and a compulsion to "have the last word," truly shows a lack of maturity and and an ability to have a serious discussion. Proof? Well he calls out those in the DPS channels for being elitist, intolerant, and calling others name, all the while behaving as an elitist, intolerant and calling people names in here--stunning actually. That being said, what I can not quite figure out is why is he so passionate about deriding those in the league?
Mosul and aefwin are known trolls and it is best to simply ignore them. Look at their descriptions regarding the channels and the people in there: "malicious, revolting behavior, short sighted, I don't have to be nice, etc. . . ." Yet, all-the-while they are telling us that we are the ones exhibiting this behavior--again stunning hypocrisy.
As for calls to close the channels? Again, why? Simply don't join them. Why must you enforce your "idea" of conformity on everyone else? These are OPTIONAL "private" channels maintained for like minded individuals. No one is making you join the channels, nor is anyone making you reply in this thread--yet you seem to hold quite a bit of animosity towards the Channels and League--so much so that you guys are making most of the posts in here. Again, why?
Let me give you a little history of the league and why it was formed. The first of the dps-channels was dps-5000. It was formed because a group of like minded players were tired of failed stf runs and inconsistent elitestf and publicelite runs. It was originally a group of about 5-12 players (mostly from friends list). Standards were set and the recruiting began, in earnest. Different from the existing channels already in place what that there was a "qualifying" aspect to gain entrance into the channel. Why? Simple: To make runs where the players had a reasonable expectation of other player's ability. As more and more players joined the channels, and more and more friendships developed, theory crafting led to better and better builds. Thus a "higher" level of game play developed which necessitated a dps-11,000, dps-20,000 channels and the birth of the DPS League. When the League was originally discussed and laid out, the premise was to set channel names and gateways to "push" players to excel. There was a clear deliminator on what was required to get into next channel based on channel name, etc. And, as they accounted for basic human nature, they knew that most people want to be in the best (and highest) dps channels thus competition was inherit. And the DPS escalation began.
This was the intent, and this is what was achieved. Furthermore, the channels were set up with the ethos of helping others and disseminating knowledge to all the channels. They simply requested that if you asked for help, that you would actually listen to those trying to help you. So far, it has worked brilliantly.
Now, the channels were never crammed down anyone's throat. Yet, they seem to be a target for some players--mainly those who are against dps. Furthermore, the channels were policed quite vigorously by the admins who monitored and removed attitudes and disruptive and abusive people. With THOUSANDS of people in the channels, is it perfect?--or course not, but they do what they can and continue to remove those not complaint to the ethos of the channels. But with such a broad range of countries, cultures, ages, maturity levels, mental issues (depression, bi-polar, even schizophrenia, etc.), it is impossible to not have asshats marring the DPS Channels reputation. But they do their best to eliminate such behavior.
If you do not want to chase dps, then don't. Go form your own set of channels, I am sure there is a demand for your style of play. But why must you call out and try to take down the DPS channels? If you truly did not care, then why are you posting in threads like this? A thread like this should bother you one little bit. The dps channels shouldn't give you a moments thought. Yet is seems to be the same bunch of characters always complaining.
Anyway, I am very proud of the Channels and what they represent. I am grateful for the knowledge I have learned and that is freely shared in there. I am humbled by the friends I made in the channels. I know that I, for one, would have quite this game years ago if not for the channels. I could not imagine "going alone" in this game. Fleets offer some help, but most fleets are dead--I like to think of the channels as my fleet, and my actual fleet as my "shopping mall."
So, open your mind and enough with the hate. The channels are simply what they are: A place of like minded individuls
If you made it this far, I also appreciate you taking the time to read the ramblings of an old man.
Now "GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!"
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
As I said earlier in the thread, I have met some good people in the Channels (Ryan_STO is actually one of them, he's a pretty cool guy).
On the flip side, as I also said, I have encounter d-waffles that are members of the Channels. Haven't run into them in game really since I had to deal with them on Facebook, but the chance of running across them in game is what makes me not want to go beyond 30k.
It isn't the Channels that people are targeting, but rather the "d-waffles" that are interspersed amongst the good people.
Haha! Didn't know about the "scrubs" thing.
As to whether he has the right, lemme put it this way: people, for example, are throwing the word n00b around here way too often. If RyanSTO does it, though, he kinda *does* have a right to call other 'scrubs' -- because, compared to him, they really are. Or, at least, when he does it, it's actually based in truth. Whether it's a particularly wise thing to say, I'll leave that in the middle. But he no doubt sees me as a 'scrub' too; and I can't say I really feel all that offended by it. When you're doing 170k, and I do only 30k, then yeah, I'm a total noob by comparison. No contest.
P.S. I don't worship a parser, btw; but I do respect fellow players who, demonstritavely, out-DPS me by an order of magnitude.
Well , it's that , but not just that .
There are a lot of good ppl who play in these channels , but some of the corrosive attitude is not restricted to said channels .
I have been parsed nearly regularly in PESTF , in queue PUG runs , on ground runs , heck even in runs on Normal what were intended to show newbies the ropes (sometimes but not always followed by the usual variant of egotistical rants) .
Thus , while I can't speak for anyone else , I can freely say that I do in fact quite dislike being parsed for several reasons -- not just the numbers worship but the stinking attitude that comes along with it from certain ppl in various channels .
Well that , and there is also the "Columbus Attitude" of having "discovered" America ... , from ppl who were not here since the beginning of this game and now have (through their demeanor , attitude and at times actions) seem to convey that they are some sort of "standard" bearers .
Forgive us if some of the "natives" find your attitudes funny at best .
And let me give you a little reminder of how you beloved "super DPS" Ryan thinks of said channels :
" The segregation could also be called:
DPS- Casual (Called DPS-Public)
DPS- Half ways trying (10k)
DPS- Decent (20k)
DPS - Try-Hard (30k) "
When I take the "scrubs" attitude together with the "Half ways trying" and the "I don't want to carry ppl" (but has no problem being carried for a DPS show in a T1 ship) -- I get the impression that some ppl at least talk the talk , but do not walk the walk -- as far as the DPS channels being all about "nice players" .
So Porchsong , next time you want to show up and talk about the "stunning hypocrisy" of others , be sure that those who you're here to defend are not guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse others of being .
Truth is a funny thing .
A large percent of the playerbase (even some of the highest DPS-ers) came to STO after it went F2P .
I never greeted any of them with terms like "freeloaders" , "newbies" or anything else .
Let's just say that that was not the attitude that was displayed in return from some of these folk .
You're welcome to respect the "stripes" that Ryan and his type have earned in your eyes .
I OTOTH see their choice of words , the attitude behind those words , and it makes me want none of dat .
After all , when you forget that you are just as equal a human being as the next guy ... , well ... *shrug* .
And if it stopped there , meh .
But when that attitude is carried over to how you address any potential Devs that you seek to interact with :
" Use one of your non dev accounts, no pink text in the DPS channels." -- sarcasmdetector
Well , you have what you have .
Kings of their own little ant hill ... , with all the imaginary rights and self bestowed privileges there in ... .
... or in other words , remind me when you meimeitoo took upon yourself to literally tell a Dev what to do in his own fraking game , if he wanted to partake in your agust company ... ?
(yeah , I thought so ...:o)