Oh yes these damn DPS K channels can go right down the tubes for all I care.
I did not need ANY of you in the first five years I have played this game.
I sure as hell will never need any of you in the following years of this game!
G.F.Y. don't mean 'good for you'!!
Again, why even read this thread? Obviously you are a troll. But to answer, the DPS has been around for 2 years--it continues to grow daily. The League is also where most of the best players in the game reside.
But going back over this thread and looking at who is attacking others, I only see non DPS people throwing the insults--not the channel members. Interesting.
But for the 300th time, the channels are optional. If you continue to hold on to the feeble, "but you are posting @handles on a 3rd party sight," then you will continue to be miserable for a long time. Any time you post in zone or in chat, you give up your @handle. As for "convenience of @handle acquisition, I have been on the table since day one.. Yet I do not or very rarely get GOLD offers. Strangely, my accounts and toons that I have that have never flown a day in their digital life are the ones that get all the spam mail and often.
Anyway, the bottom line: We are not going anywhere. So you are left with the choice of getting over it or continuing to troll and whine. It is really that simple.
Tanks and support ships are still viable except that those who knows how to use and build one for optimal PvE are also in the DPS league. You need a lot of organization and communication just to make those kind of ships work. PuGs are anything but organized nor open to communication.
Trying to avoid the rest of the rubbish, but the bit I quoted kinda summed it up for me anyway. I mean, firstly, are you seriously suggesting that the only people who can build these ships are in the DPS league, and by extension are the only ones who are able to use them effectively? 'Cause that is how that comes across to me and that is laughable, and you lot wonder why a lot of people can't take the DPS channels seriously?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who can build these ships properly and knows how to use one can contribute effectively in a pug, the problem as I have already stated is that near-everything space related is reliant on DPS-centric builds, and what you are saying is effectively that people can run those builds so long as they're being carried by the rest of the team, and while you can complete missions with all tank and all support ships (makes for some wacky scenes with support I can tell ya), it doesn't change the fact those ships still need to have a DPS output rivalling a standard Scimitar before DR, just to put some kind of a familiar figure to it.
The weakness of pugs is that those people have no way of knowing where to start with what to do, learn or whatever. That I can blame on Cryptic, there is nothing in the game that helps anybody learn the mechanics in an effective manner. However I refer to my original post regarding the DPS channels and my gripes with them, and I have often wondered how differently DR would have turned out if these channels didn't exist, as like I said, the space game only seems to cater to the channels as it is right now.
But going back over this thread and looking at who is attacking others, I only see non DPS people throwing the insults--not the channel members. Interesting.
It doesn't occur to you that if people have issues with you they might have left or wouldn't want to join you in the first place? Sorry but that seems to be a bit of a bad way of thinking about it, even just from a basic logic standpoint.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
It doesn't occur to you that if people have issues with you they might have left or wouldn't want to join you in the first place? Sorry but that seems to be a bit of a bad way of thinking about it, even just from a basic logic standpoint.
It's a very specific comment though relating to this thread. In relation to people joining or choosing not to, then yes it would be an incorrect statement.
The funny part is when you see someone obviously against the DPS guys join the channel then go off like a frog in a sock. Then get sore when they get told to GTFO for trolling or whatever. There's normally about 1 per week that does that. Each time they go nuts for no apparent reason. Sometimes it's about the use of an acronym like WFP where someone says that in a premade, they don't ask what it means, then go charging in like a bull in a china shop when the instance starts. Of course that's going to annoy people when all it takes is asking "what does WFP stand for?"
However going over this thread it's literally just 3-4 people answering posts with anger and vitriol. Seriously this thread has nothing to do with your complaints or issues. Being at least cordial to people helps get a message across far better than just calling them arseholes.
Oh and Aelfwin, Porchsong wasn't telling you what to do, he was giving you good advice. Your choice to either take that advice and not act like you are currently (as bad if not worse than the idiots who go mad in PUG's) or you can choose to keep hold of that hate and let it burn and burn and burn until you are just blinded by it, again not people telling you what to do, just an analysis based off the data from your posts. Which seem to be as open to see as anyone's @handle ingame
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Nice assumption, because whilst Tarastheslayer does run a lot of ground content. He's more than capable of holding his own in whilst running space content. Whilst he may not have record damage output, it's very rare he gets carried through anything.
I don't know how you're finding their builds, to confirm that they're "fun" builds.
Even without parsing data, it's an eye-test. If I can see that a player is not contributing in some way - not just damage ouput, but also looking for heals, buffs, etc - then I have to question what their plan of attack is. Also, if they spend half the queue waiting for respawn, there's a bit of... concern there :P
"Fun" builds is more subjective, for sure. It's more my reaction to when I see something and think "hey that was cool... but what the heck made you think that was a good idea in Advanced?"
I suspect the problem plaguing advanced queues is that too many players erroneously believe that they must run the advanced queues in order to get the gear needed to engage in advanced queues.
So much this... agreed entirely. It's like a cart before the horse scenario. By that, I mean jump directly into high-difficulty content hoping to get the gear that you need in the first place. Gotta improve over time, swapping in and out pieces of gear as you progress.
But then again, so many of the current complaints being thrown around about STO in general are from players who have the 'give me everything now' attitude. That's another pressing issue, for sure.
Also, whether the DPS people like it or not, the fact that DPS-centric builds are the only ones that didn't get the rather direct shaft with DR just goes to show how broken the game is right now. Pre-DR you would get the odd occasion where even higher range DPSer's (who clearly didn't have an ego issue) enjoyed the company of the tank or drain ship or whatever and even took the time to thank you for being helpful.
It's certainly a DPS-or-kkthxbi situation out there right now. I have to expect that from a level cap increase. So there's balance to be had. But I've heard / read the devs speaking alot about this issue, and how to make non-DPS builds more effective again.
This was more-or-less some of the design philosophy behind Command ships. It's a new game system that forcibly reminds players that yes, there are other roles of importance besides DPS, such as team support. I can still pump out some great damage from my Command ship, but that's a side effect of throwing around team-wide buffs, or debuffing the enemy in a way that benefits everyone.
If I wasn't parsed or trolled by parsers on a near daily basis (despite not belonging to any of your "spectacular channels") , I would probably live and let live .
What you are asking of me is to be trolled and let go .
Sorry , not happening .
And since it's not you who does the in game trolling , perhaps it's you who should let go ...
That's an entirely fair point. It's not acceptable for players to use their parsing data as a tool to lord over others. That, by all means, has to stop. But it won't, 'cause trolls gonna troll. Yay MMO! :rolleyes:
It's like anything else in the game - tons of ways to have fun (and for some, DPS maxing is plenty fun), but some players will take it too far and troll others for not playing the game precisely according to their own personal definition of fun.
If it's not DPS trolling, it'll be something else. If it's not players saying "I'm soooo much better than you 'cause I gotz da awesomesauce DPS," it'll be something else. DPS is just the easiest troll tactic right now.
However going over this thread it's literally just 3-4 people answering posts with anger and vitriol. Seriously this thread has nothing to do with your complaints or issues. Being at least cordial to people helps get a message across far better than just calling them arseholes.
Indeed... The forum mods seem to have taken the weekend off in this and a few other threads where this same reaction is taking place.
I kinda find it amusing that's all you had to say :P Honestly I do prefer ground to space, but as Sqwished has already said, I do perfectly fine in space as well. Just to clarify I've built everything from tanks to drain ships to crowd control and yes even dps ships, I've been there and tried the lot. Personally I prefer science in space and on ground, mostly because I just find it more fun and I like doing my own thing in an effective manner. So if you're implying I have no knowledge base to go from, 'fraid that ain't the case :rolleyes:
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I kinda find it amusing that's all you had to say :P Honestly I do prefer ground to space, but as Sqwished has already said, I do perfectly fine in space as well.
*finishes applying the final bit of Omega Brand Critical-Shine (tm) polish on my rifle*
That time again, eh? Time to go bug huntin' :cool:
regarding the DPS channels and my gripes with them, and I have often wondered how differently DR would have turned out if these channels didn't exist, as like I said, the space game only seems to cater to the channels as it is right now.
In this case you also have to differentiate. Lets play the mindgame here:
Option 1: DR would be the same as now, because a sufficient number of players are able to complete content far to fast.
Option 2: DR was implemented the way it was because of the population (number of players) of the channels and the leaderboard.
Option 3: Due to the channels more players learned to play the game efficiently, or learned the basics of mechanics (something cryptic should have in the tutorial. But obviously the BO-Trainer is far less important than the Taylor), thus the number of players rushing the content increased rapidly -especially since there are a number of guides from wizards for all to see- and thus... we are at Option 1 with our involvement.
Thats the three things that could have happened. Though I would suggest Option 2 is a consequency of Option 3 (because without more ppl with knowledge of mechanics the leaderboards would be more empty/the average dps would be far lower). Of course one might say Option 2+3 are the combined cause.
In any way, what your question implies is, that if we were to be at fault for bringing DR how it is (though we only gave the incentive to the devs), it would always lead to "You helped others in the game", be it the full cause or just a partial one.
And while I would be honored to be at fault for DR, as we would have shaken the earth (game) with our still mortal (players) powers, we would -in terms of the game, but for analogy- stand in line with ppl like Luther, Jesus, Buddha (and yes, Stalin&Hitler): Mortals who shaped the face of the world with their actions.
But analogy aside, what kind of fault is it to help others learn to play/the mechanics?
Its a bit like blaming Flemming for the overpopulation of the world...
And while I would be honored to be at fault for DR, as we would have shaken the earth (game) with our still mortal (players) powers, we would -in terms of the game, but for analogy- stand in line with ppl like...
In this case you also have to differentiate. Lets play the mindgame here:
Option 1: DR would be the same as now, because a sufficient number of players are able to complete content far to fast.
Option 2: DR was implemented the way it was because of the population (number of players) of the channels and the leaderboard.
Option 3: Due to the channels more players learned to play the game efficiently, or learned the basics of mechanics (something cryptic should have in the tutorial. But obviously the BO-Trainer is far less important than the Taylor), thus the number of players rushing the content increased rapidly -especially since there are a number of guides from wizards for all to see- and thus... we are at Option 1 with our involvement.
Or most likely Option 4: Delta Rising is the way it is to sell upgrades.
And we're done. 20 pages was a good run. Move along, nothing else to see here folks.
Godwin's law is merely that for a sufficiently long enough thread the probability of Hitler approaches 1, not that the thread is over upon mentioning Hitler.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Godwin's law is merely that for a sufficiently long enough thread the probability of Hitler approaches 1, not that the thread is over upon mentioning Hitler.
True true, but it does usually signal the end of valid discussion. Although I think this thread was falling off the rails already...
Or most likely Option 4: Delta Rising is the way it is to sell upgrades.
There had to be something coming along with a level-cap increase. I'm just glad the upgrade system exists. They could've taken the easy route and just invalidated all the gear and ships we had - some of which, if you've been in the game long enough, was the result of years' worth of effort.
Also, gear upgrades are entirely free. Ship upgrades, not so much. But there's a ton posted to the Exchange, so it's easy enough to get them for free.
But for the 300th time, the channels are optional. If you continue to hold on to the feeble, "but you are posting @handles on a 3rd party sight," then you will continue to be miserable for a long time. Any time you post in zone or in chat, you give up your @handle. As for "convenience of @handle acquisition, I have been on the table since day one.. Yet I do not or very rarely get GOLD offers. Strangely, my accounts and toons that I have that have never flown a day in their digital life are the ones that get all the spam mail and often.
Anyway, the bottom line: We are not going anywhere. So you are left with the choice of getting over it or continuing to troll and whine. It is really that simple.
So in other words you will continue to do whatever you want like troll ppl by posting their acc data on 3rd party sites (thus breaking Term of Service Pharagraph 15. User conduct, subparagraph 15.2.g.), without any consideration over other ppl or any rules. Thank you for finally showing your true face. And proving my point about DPSers malicious actions I was refering earlier in this thread.
That's an entirely fair point. It's not acceptable for players to use their parsing data as a tool to lord over others. That, by all means, has to stop. But it won't, 'cause trolls gonna troll. Yay MMO! :rolleyes:
It's like anything else in the game - tons of ways to have fun (and for some, DPS maxing is plenty fun), but some players will take it too far and troll others for not playing the game precisely according to their own personal definition of fun.
If it's not DPS trolling, it'll be something else. If it's not players saying "I'm soooo much better than you 'cause I gotz da awesomesauce DPS," it'll be something else. DPS is just the easiest troll tactic right now.
But thats the thing. If you let the trolls do their worse, you are not helping any1, not yourself, nor the game. Best to deal with this is to let the Cryptic and PWE know, via multiple "channels" (as in ways) about these blatant and outrageous actions of these players and bring awareness upon this concerning matter. These players did even compared themselfs with Buddha and other great figures?? That was embarrasing to watch, really:eek: They also seem to become deluded and thinking themselfs even above the devs.
And this is even worse then the old cryo greande device or even then the disco balls or snow balls. If theose were just a mere nuisance, this is far more serious, since it breaks ToS rules and expose acc data to hacking. A posible solution I moved forward was a privacy option to prevent any given or taken damage to be showned in the combat log. In fact any data from a certain player not to be shown in the combat log, thus not to be able to be read by any combat log reader. This will also prevent any trolling done in-game via forcing ppl into afk penalities.
Bottom line, if nothing is done about these trolls, they will becomse worse by the time, as they allready started, shortly after DR.
Personally, I still do not get the overall antagonism...the manner in which it is so often applied with scapegoating and stereotypes.
Tom being a douche doesn't mean that all Tom's are a douche.
Disagreeing with Jerry doesn't mean that you can't agree with any Jerry.
Yet that's what happens so oft on the forums here, yeah? Just don't get that...it's like the background events for a bad horror movie, the mob mentality where folks freak out and a hundred years later we get some scantily clad co-ed running through the woods and falling down a bunch...
So in other words you will continue to do whatever you want like troll ppl by posting their acc data on 3rd party sites (thus breaking Term of Service Pharagraph 15. User conduct, subparagraph 15.2.g.), without any consideration over other ppl or any rules. Thank you for finally showing your true face. And proving my point about DPSers malicious actions I was refering earlier in this thread.
"personal data" means data relating to a living individual who is or can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information that is in, or is likely to come into, the possession of the data controller;
Your @handle can only be used to identify an account, it is not your date of birth, name, address or anything else that uniquely identifies you, unless you have decided to use your personal data in a publicly available(chatting in game or using forums) place.
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
So in other words you will continue to do whatever you want like troll ppl by posting their acc data on 3rd party sites (thus breaking Term of Service Pharagraph 15. User conduct, subparagraph 15.2.g.), without any consideration over other ppl or any rules. Thank you for finally showing your true face. And proving my point about DPSers malicious actions I was refering earlier in this thread.
Well, at least you pointed out to everyone your ignorance of the TOS:
g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
It clearly states PERSONAL data, not ACCOUNT data. By definition, account data is public. Everyone's @handles are public or they would not be broadcast GAMEWIDE when you open a box and win a ship, or Beat NWS the first time, type in zone chat, etc.
Now I know you will argue this into the ground as people like you are incapable of admitting making a mistake, but the bottom line is: YOU ARE WRONG, dead wrong. Account Data and Personal Data are two completely different things.
Furthermore, the devs--geko included--are aware of our league table. They have made reference to it on podcasts, etc. So, they see the @handles, they see everyone's dps when they loaded the parser and looked at the league table.
So, thank you for pointing us to the TOS. You can now rest assured we are not violating anything in the TOS and you can now stop trolling the dps threads.
It clearly states PERSONAL data, not ACCOUNT data. By definition, account data is public. Everyone's @handles are public or they would not be broadcast GAMEWIDE when you open a box and win a ship, or Beat NWS the first time, type in zone chat, etc.
Now I know you will argue this into the ground as people like you are incapable of admitting making a mistake, but the bottom line is: YOU ARE WRONG, dead wrong. Account Data and Personal Data are two completely different things.
Furthermore, the devs--geko included--are aware of our league table. They have made reference to it on podcasts, etc. So, they see the @handles, they see everyone's dps when they loaded the parser and looked at the league table.
So, thank you for pointing us to the TOS. You can now rest assured we are not violating anything in the TOS and you can now stop trolling the dps threads.
Ahha, now your are wrong :P But right :P I will admit I indeed overlooked the privacy policy personal data nitpicking... To me account data selfimplies as personal data... since its your own personal account...
Hmm, still Paragrapgh 16, subparagraph 16.4... but I have to look at that one better.
Anyway, does mister Geko and the Devs know that the majority of the @handles from there are colected WITHOUT the permission and even WITHOUT the acknoledgement of said persons? Not trolling you, asking a fair question.
And dont worry, i wont stop as long as i see you folks are trolling ppl, both in-game and out-side of the game on 3rd party sites, wich still is a malicious action that causes increase in hacking and gold seller spams.
Ahha, now your are wrong :P But right :P I will admit I indeed overlooked the privacy policy personal data nitpicking... To me account data selfimplies as personal data... since its your own personal account...
Hmm, still Paragrapgh 16, subparagraph 16.4... but I have to look at that one better.
Anyway, does mister Geko and the Devs know that the majority of the @handles from there are colected WITHOUT the permission and even WITHOUT the acknoledgement of said persons? Not trolling you, asking a fair question.
And dont worry, i wont stop as long as i see you folks are trolling ppl, both in-game and out-side of the game on 3rd party sites, wich still is a malicious action that causes increase in hacking and gold seller spams.
I do not know if they do or not. But the assumption is they "do" know that it is collected and posted by the parser as they (the devs) are using the parser.
As for Paragraph 16, I still do not see anything in that paragraph prohibiting posting of an account @handle. Again, they are not held private within the game--as we constantly see game wide announcements of @handles.
As for an @handle being implicitly private, that is an impossible implication. The game is a MMO, so by definition account information is public. The @handle is a "public" identifier within the game. We do not post the toon name, so there is really no way to have people hut you down via gateway etc.
But, most importantly, the users "full toon name with @handle" is generated in the combatlog that Cryptic produces within the game. Basically, anyone can get full toon name by reading their combatlog. So, Cyptic is the one supplying the information we are using in the database.
Trying to avoid the rest of the rubbish, but the bit I quoted kinda summed it up for me anyway. I mean, firstly, are you seriously suggesting that the only people who can build these ships are in the DPS league, and by extension are the only ones who are able to use them effectively? 'Cause that is how that comes across to me and that is laughable, and you lot wonder why a lot of people can't take the DPS channels seriously?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who can build these ships properly and knows how to use one can contribute effectively in a pug, the problem as I have already stated is that near-everything space related is reliant on DPS-centric builds, and what you are saying is effectively that people can run those builds so long as they're being carried by the rest of the team, and while you can complete missions with all tank and all support ships (makes for some wacky scenes with support I can tell ya), it doesn't change the fact those ships still need to have a DPS output rivalling a standard Scimitar before DR, just to put some kind of a familiar figure to it.
The weakness of pugs is that those people have no way of knowing where to start with what to do, learn or whatever. That I can blame on Cryptic, there is nothing in the game that helps anybody learn the mechanics in an effective manner. However I refer to my original post regarding the DPS channels and my gripes with them, and I have often wondered how differently DR would have turned out if these channels didn't exist, as like I said, the space game only seems to cater to the channels as it is right now.
It doesn't occur to you that if people have issues with you they might have left or wouldn't want to join you in the first place? Sorry but that seems to be a bit of a bad way of thinking about it, even just from a basic logic standpoint.
I can build ships that have decent dps. I just choose to not identify with a certain type of mindset because I feel well its not very community oriented. Like everyone else I have a romulan tactical officer that can melt ships, but I prefer my klingon engineer above all else. He can dps pretty well too but obviously not as well as a romulan tactical officer. The "dps league" is not composed of all people who can perform well inside the game. Its a subset with a particular mindset which unfortunately some of us have gotten a bad impression of.
Anyone in this thread who is commenting who is not in this particular clique is considered
a) a troll
b) a scrub
anyone who does 20k dps needs to "try harder" or whatever
anyhow who does less for whatever reason is well you know unworthy of even that label lol.
Why would I want to become a part of that culture. I find it offensive and exactly what does not build good communities. It does quite the opposite. There is no need for them to start these threads other then to do some pr or damage control. Its not like its a new theme or anything lol its an ad for a group who look at everyone not in this "league" in a certain way.
I am a girl though and this means I lack the will to be as competitive nor do i even care. What I do care about is the offensive outlook they have on the general playerbase. Its not a way to shall we say "win friends and influence people" and in many way its damaging the game and at more then one level. /shrug
ps. my forum username is not linked to my @handle. Ingame I do this for security reasons. I also am careful about using zone chat because of gold farmers but if they do get my ingame@handle they cannot link it to my arc account. This gives me some measure of security for farmers looking to hack accounts. I would suggest others do this its a bit safer. YOu only have to worry about the hackers farming names off the forums then. Its another reason why I have stopped posting as much. I was getting bombarded with account password requests from people surfing the forums trying to access game accounts.
But analogy aside, what kind of fault is it to help others learn to play/the mechanics?
Its a bit like blaming Flemming for the overpopulation of the world...
I didn't say there was, I'm not going to rewrite everything I put though.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I do not know if they do or not. But the assumption is they "do" know that it is collected and posted by the parser as they (the devs) are using the parser.
As for Paragraph 16, I still do not see anything in that paragraph prohibiting posting of an account @handle. Again, they are not held private within the game--as we constantly see game wide announcements of @handles.
As for an @handle being implicitly private, that is an impossible implication. The game is a MMO, so by definition account information is public. The @handle is a "public" identifier within the game. We do not post the toon name, so there is really no way to have people hut you down via gateway etc.
But, most importantly, the users "full toon name with @handle" is generated in the combatlog that Cryptic produces within the game. Basically, anyone can get full toon name by reading their combatlog. So, Cyptic is the one supplying the information we are using in the database.
The handling on situations like this, is hard knowing ourselves, as the TOS can be pretty blatant at times.
But, even a simple @handle is sufficient enough to find anyone in game, there is no real need for the character(s) name at all to be included.
So, tread lightly when using character names and, @handles in this forum just in case so, you do not incur any possible reprimands.
Mosul, you are LITERALLY crying over nothing. This is a non-issue. It's not even a minor issue. It's the equivalent of kicking and crying because you were in the background of a screenshot and didn't want people to rip off your custom uniform combination.
Seriously. Stop. You haven't got the faintest basis in reality to build upon and you're creating a vendetta-level hatred over something that's incosequential. You're trying so hard to hate the rankings because they list you, and making up reasons to hate them ("they're stealing my account info from your rankings list!" and other drivel). I can gauran-damn-tee you nobody is stealing from that list, because I've been on it for years. I rarely, if ever, get spam mails in-game. The majority of people on the rankings list will say the same. You're creating a causal link that doesn't exist, and then basing a VAST untapped amount of hatred on it and towards everybody associated for it when there is no real link.
You need to grow up, or stop playing this game. You're far too paranoid to be on the Internet, if you truly believe what you're typing.
Prior to being on the DPS League's rank table, I would get 3-4 spam emails a week ingame. After being listed, I get the same amount. The DPS League rank table has nothing to do with that. My @handle shows up when I log in, just like most others.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
But, most importantly, the users "full toon name with @handle" is generated in the combatlog that Cryptic produces within the game. Basically, anyone can get full toon name by reading their combatlog. So, Cyptic is the one supplying the information we are using in the database.
Aaa, and you are right again. Thank you, so my initial sugestion about a privacy option was spot on and a welcome addition. Much appreaciated it.
Mosul, you are LITERALLY crying over nothing. This is a non-issue. It's not even a minor issue. It's the equivalent of kicking and crying because you were in the background of a screenshot and didn't want people to rip off your custom uniform combination.
Seriously. Stop. You haven't got the faintest basis in reality to build upon and you're creating a vendetta-level hatred over something that's incosequential. You're trying so hard to hate the rankings because they list you, and making up reasons to hate them ("they're stealing my account info from your rankings list!" and other drivel). I can gauran-damn-tee you nobody is stealing from that list, because I've been on it for years. I rarely, if ever, get spam mails in-game. The majority of people on the rankings list will say the same. You're creating a causal link that doesn't exist, and then basing a VAST untapped amount of hatred on it and towards everybody associated for it when there is no real link.
You need to grow up, or stop playing this game. You're far too paranoid to be on the Internet, if you truly believe what you're typing.
Hmm, and you need to stop trolling. Frankly I am disgusted by your support in any actions of trolling or any malicious actions. Altho from some other threads you do seem to be a quite a troll.
I can build ships that have decent dps. I just choose to not identify with a certain type of mindset because I feel well its not very community oriented. Like everyone else I have a romulan tactical officer that can melt ships, but I prefer my klingon engineer above all else. He can dps pretty well too but obviously not as well as a romulan tactical officer. The "dps league" is not composed of all people who can perform well inside the game. Its a subset with a particular mindset which unfortunately some of us have gotten a bad impression of.
Anyone in this thread who is commenting who is not in this particular clique is considered
a) a troll
b) a scrub
anyone who does 20k dps needs to "try harder" or whatever
anyhow who does less for whatever reason is well you know unworthy of even that label lol.
Why would I want to become a part of that culture. I find it offensive and exactly what does not build good communities. It does quite the opposite. There is no need for them to start these threads other then to do some pr or damage control. Its not like its a new theme or anything lol its an ad for a group who look at everyone not in this "league" in a certain way.
I am a girl though and this means I lack the will to be as competitive nor do i even care. What I do care about is the offensive outlook they have on the general playerbase. Its not a way to shall we say "win friends and influence people" and in many way its damaging the game and at more then one level. /shrug
ps. my forum username is not linked to my @handle. Ingame I do this for security reasons. I also am careful about using zone chat because of gold farmers but if they do get my ingame@handle they cannot link it to my arc account. This gives me some measure of security for farmers looking to hack accounts. I would suggest others do this its a bit safer. YOu only have to worry about the hackers farming names off the forums then. Its another reason why I have stopped posting as much. I was getting bombarded with account password requests from people surfing the forums trying to access game accounts.
Again, why coment in this thread, then? It is called the DPS league and channels for a reason. I repeat DPS. It is optional. Furthermore, it completely promotes community and it is the largest community in the game. There are thousands of players in the league and it continues to grow daily.
So I have to ask, what have done for the game/community? Seriously, I would like to know. The amount of positive feedback we get is rather significant.
Again, it is easy to criticize, but much harder to act.
Trying to avoid the rest of the rubbish, but the bit I quoted kinda summed it up for me anyway. I mean, firstly, are you seriously suggesting that the only people who can build these ships are in the DPS league, and by extension are the only ones who are able to use them effectively? 'Cause that is how that comes across to me and that is laughable, and you lot wonder why a lot of people can't take the DPS channels seriously?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who can build these ships properly and knows how to use one can contribute effectively in a pug, the problem as I have already stated is that near-everything space related is reliant on DPS-centric builds, and what you are saying is effectively that people can run those builds so long as they're being carried by the rest of the team, and while you can complete missions with all tank and all support ships (makes for some wacky scenes with support I can tell ya), it doesn't change the fact those ships still need to have a DPS output rivalling a standard Scimitar before DR, just to put some kind of a familiar figure to it.
The weakness of pugs is that those people have no way of knowing where to start with what to do, learn or whatever. That I can blame on Cryptic, there is nothing in the game that helps anybody learn the mechanics in an effective manner. However I refer to my original post regarding the DPS channels and my gripes with them, and I have often wondered how differently DR would have turned out if these channels didn't exist, as like I said, the space game only seems to cater to the channels as it is right now.
It doesn't occur to you that if people have issues with you they might have left or wouldn't want to join you in the first place? Sorry but that seems to be a bit of a bad way of thinking about it, even just from a basic logic standpoint.
All players can make support and tanks. Like I said the best ones are in DPS league. Why?
First of all, you need to actually keep on doing the missions and finish it like HSE, etc or doing PvE and repeatedly. If you are a PuG, can are you even assured of finishing it? If you are a PvPer who spend more time in the forums, do you even actually do the missions?
Secondly, if you do finish it, do any of your group do 180k DPS? So the support ships are supporting 100k DPSers and tanks taking aggros from 100k DPSers. How can you say that the supports ship and tanking ships are better other than DPS league when there is no practice to take aggro from 100k DPSers and supporting 100k DPS ships?
Ok lets assume PvPers and PuGs are good at support ships and tanking. But they can only take aggros from 10k DPSers and can support runs that slow runs. However, is oblivious on how to take aggro from High DPSers and support fast runs because they have are supporting low DPS and have no idea or practice to actually take aggros from 100K DPS.
With regards to the game support high DPS, no problem. We have adapted. Certain players havent. If the game changes simply because some whinny players want to be spoon fed, I might rethink my stay in PvE. It is the reason why I left PvPin a year ago. STO PvP community has a very bad community. When you have a community asking for change of mechanics rather than adapting in game mechanics thats the time you leave the game.
Again, I repeat what other DPSers in this thread have said. If you dont like the community dont join and dont comment on this thread, be indifferent leave us with our ways and will leave you to your own ways. Because you wont see us posting the same thing over and over on RPers threads or PvPers threads.
But then again, so many of the current complaints being thrown around about STO in general are from players who have the 'give me everything now' attitude. That's another pressing issue, for sure.
You can feed their "give me everything now" attitude, and I don't mean with the Finish Now button. If there was a clearer progression system between normals and advanced, the "give me everything now" crowd would happily chase that before moving onto the next system.
The rep system itself is filled with all sorts of poor choices, with so much of its rewards being gear for niche builds or pieces that are at best side-grades to other rep pieces. But, it's also the most obvious and readily accessible progression system in the game, and isn't substantially undermined by the RNG factor that cripples crafting.
Unfortunately, that points to another major issue in STO facing PUGs: every aspect of compiling a build is fraught with countless noob-traps and other pitfalls. Worse than that, the mechanics themselves are unclear, often with the mathematics behind a mechanic functioning in a more complex or otherwise different way than the mechanic itself would suggest. Both of these seem to be intentional decisions by Cryptic, with the purpose of squeezing players for more of their time or money by luring them into make inefficient choices the player later feels a need to correct.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
Again, why even read this thread? Obviously you are a troll. But to answer, the DPS has been around for 2 years--it continues to grow daily. The League is also where most of the best players in the game reside.
But going back over this thread and looking at who is attacking others, I only see non DPS people throwing the insults--not the channel members. Interesting.
But for the 300th time, the channels are optional. If you continue to hold on to the feeble, "but you are posting @handles on a 3rd party sight," then you will continue to be miserable for a long time. Any time you post in zone or in chat, you give up your @handle. As for "convenience of @handle acquisition, I have been on the table since day one.. Yet I do not or very rarely get GOLD offers. Strangely, my accounts and toons that I have that have never flown a day in their digital life are the ones that get all the spam mail and often.
Anyway, the bottom line: We are not going anywhere. So you are left with the choice of getting over it or continuing to troll and whine. It is really that simple.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Trying to avoid the rest of the rubbish, but the bit I quoted kinda summed it up for me anyway. I mean, firstly, are you seriously suggesting that the only people who can build these ships are in the DPS league, and by extension are the only ones who are able to use them effectively? 'Cause that is how that comes across to me and that is laughable, and you lot wonder why a lot of people can't take the DPS channels seriously?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who can build these ships properly and knows how to use one can contribute effectively in a pug, the problem as I have already stated is that near-everything space related is reliant on DPS-centric builds, and what you are saying is effectively that people can run those builds so long as they're being carried by the rest of the team, and while you can complete missions with all tank and all support ships (makes for some wacky scenes with support I can tell ya), it doesn't change the fact those ships still need to have a DPS output rivalling a standard Scimitar before DR, just to put some kind of a familiar figure to it.
The weakness of pugs is that those people have no way of knowing where to start with what to do, learn or whatever. That I can blame on Cryptic, there is nothing in the game that helps anybody learn the mechanics in an effective manner. However I refer to my original post regarding the DPS channels and my gripes with them, and I have often wondered how differently DR would have turned out if these channels didn't exist, as like I said, the space game only seems to cater to the channels as it is right now.
It doesn't occur to you that if people have issues with you they might have left or wouldn't want to join you in the first place? Sorry but that seems to be a bit of a bad way of thinking about it, even just from a basic logic standpoint.
I c a ground hero
It's a very specific comment though relating to this thread. In relation to people joining or choosing not to, then yes it would be an incorrect statement.
The funny part is when you see someone obviously against the DPS guys join the channel then go off like a frog in a sock. Then get sore when they get told to GTFO for trolling or whatever. There's normally about 1 per week that does that. Each time they go nuts for no apparent reason. Sometimes it's about the use of an acronym like WFP where someone says that in a premade, they don't ask what it means, then go charging in like a bull in a china shop when the instance starts. Of course that's going to annoy people when all it takes is asking "what does WFP stand for?"
However going over this thread it's literally just 3-4 people answering posts with anger and vitriol. Seriously this thread has nothing to do with your complaints or issues. Being at least cordial to people helps get a message across far better than just calling them arseholes.
Oh and Aelfwin, Porchsong wasn't telling you what to do, he was giving you good advice. Your choice to either take that advice and not act like you are currently (as bad if not worse than the idiots who go mad in PUG's) or you can choose to keep hold of that hate and let it burn and burn and burn until you are just blinded by it, again not people telling you what to do, just an analysis based off the data from your posts. Which seem to be as open to see as anyone's @handle ingame
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Nice assumption, because whilst Tarastheslayer does run a lot of ground content. He's more than capable of holding his own in whilst running space content. Whilst he may not have record damage output, it's very rare he gets carried through anything.
Even without parsing data, it's an eye-test. If I can see that a player is not contributing in some way - not just damage ouput, but also looking for heals, buffs, etc - then I have to question what their plan of attack is. Also, if they spend half the queue waiting for respawn, there's a bit of... concern there :P
"Fun" builds is more subjective, for sure. It's more my reaction to when I see something and think "hey that was cool... but what the heck made you think that was a good idea in Advanced?"
So much this... agreed entirely. It's like a cart before the horse scenario. By that, I mean jump directly into high-difficulty content hoping to get the gear that you need in the first place. Gotta improve over time, swapping in and out pieces of gear as you progress.
But then again, so many of the current complaints being thrown around about STO in general are from players who have the 'give me everything now' attitude. That's another pressing issue, for sure.
It's certainly a DPS-or-kkthxbi situation out there right now. I have to expect that from a level cap increase. So there's balance to be had. But I've heard / read the devs speaking alot about this issue, and how to make non-DPS builds more effective again.
This was more-or-less some of the design philosophy behind Command ships. It's a new game system that forcibly reminds players that yes, there are other roles of importance besides DPS, such as team support. I can still pump out some great damage from my Command ship, but that's a side effect of throwing around team-wide buffs, or debuffing the enemy in a way that benefits everyone.
That's an entirely fair point. It's not acceptable for players to use their parsing data as a tool to lord over others. That, by all means, has to stop. But it won't, 'cause trolls gonna troll. Yay MMO! :rolleyes:
It's like anything else in the game - tons of ways to have fun (and for some, DPS maxing is plenty fun), but some players will take it too far and troll others for not playing the game precisely according to their own personal definition of fun.
If it's not DPS trolling, it'll be something else. If it's not players saying "I'm soooo much better than you 'cause I gotz da awesomesauce DPS," it'll be something else. DPS is just the easiest troll tactic right now.
Indeed... The forum mods seem to have taken the weekend off in this and a few other threads where this same reaction is taking place.
I kinda find it amusing that's all you had to say :P Honestly I do prefer ground to space, but as Sqwished has already said, I do perfectly fine in space as well. Just to clarify I've built everything from tanks to drain ships to crowd control and yes even dps ships, I've been there and tried the lot. Personally I prefer science in space and on ground, mostly because I just find it more fun and I like doing my own thing in an effective manner. So if you're implying I have no knowledge base to go from, 'fraid that ain't the case :rolleyes:
*finishes applying the final bit of Omega Brand Critical-Shine (tm) polish on my rifle*
That time again, eh? Time to go bug huntin' :cool:
In this case you also have to differentiate. Lets play the mindgame here:
Option 1: DR would be the same as now, because a sufficient number of players are able to complete content far to fast.
Option 2: DR was implemented the way it was because of the population (number of players) of the channels and the leaderboard.
Option 3: Due to the channels more players learned to play the game efficiently, or learned the basics of mechanics (something cryptic should have in the tutorial. But obviously the BO-Trainer is far less important than the Taylor), thus the number of players rushing the content increased rapidly -especially since there are a number of guides from wizards for all to see- and thus... we are at Option 1 with our involvement.
Thats the three things that could have happened. Though I would suggest Option 2 is a consequency of Option 3 (because without more ppl with knowledge of mechanics the leaderboards would be more empty/the average dps would be far lower). Of course one might say Option 2+3 are the combined cause.
In any way, what your question implies is, that if we were to be at fault for bringing DR how it is (though we only gave the incentive to the devs), it would always lead to "You helped others in the game", be it the full cause or just a partial one.
And while I would be honored to be at fault for DR, as we would have shaken the earth (game) with our still mortal (players) powers, we would -in terms of the game, but for analogy- stand in line with ppl like Luther, Jesus, Buddha (and yes, Stalin&Hitler): Mortals who shaped the face of the world with their actions.
But analogy aside, what kind of fault is it to help others learn to play/the mechanics?
Its a bit like blaming Flemming for the overpopulation of the world...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
And we're done. 20 pages was a good run. Move along, nothing else to see here folks.
Or most likely Option 4: Delta Rising is the way it is to sell upgrades.
Godwin's law is merely that for a sufficiently long enough thread the probability of Hitler approaches 1, not that the thread is over upon mentioning Hitler.
True true, but it does usually signal the end of valid discussion. Although I think this thread was falling off the rails already...
There had to be something coming along with a level-cap increase. I'm just glad the upgrade system exists. They could've taken the easy route and just invalidated all the gear and ships we had - some of which, if you've been in the game long enough, was the result of years' worth of effort.
Also, gear upgrades are entirely free. Ship upgrades, not so much. But there's a ton posted to the Exchange, so it's easy enough to get them for free.
So in other words you will continue to do whatever you want like troll ppl by posting their acc data on 3rd party sites (thus breaking Term of Service Pharagraph 15. User conduct, subparagraph 15.2.g.), without any consideration over other ppl or any rules. Thank you for finally showing your true face. And proving my point about DPSers malicious actions I was refering earlier in this thread.
But thats the thing. If you let the trolls do their worse, you are not helping any1, not yourself, nor the game. Best to deal with this is to let the Cryptic and PWE know, via multiple "channels" (as in ways) about these blatant and outrageous actions of these players and bring awareness upon this concerning matter. These players did even compared themselfs with Buddha and other great figures?? That was embarrasing to watch, really:eek: They also seem to become deluded and thinking themselfs even above the devs.
And this is even worse then the old cryo greande device or even then the disco balls or snow balls. If theose were just a mere nuisance, this is far more serious, since it breaks ToS rules and expose acc data to hacking. A posible solution I moved forward was a privacy option to prevent any given or taken damage to be showned in the combat log. In fact any data from a certain player not to be shown in the combat log, thus not to be able to be read by any combat log reader. This will also prevent any trolling done in-game via forcing ppl into afk penalities.
Bottom line, if nothing is done about these trolls, they will becomse worse by the time, as they allready started, shortly after DR.
Tom being a douche doesn't mean that all Tom's are a douche.
Disagreeing with Jerry doesn't mean that you can't agree with any Jerry.
Yet that's what happens so oft on the forums here, yeah? Just don't get that...it's like the background events for a bad horror movie, the mob mentality where folks freak out and a hundred years later we get some scantily clad co-ed running through the woods and falling down a bunch...
Your @handle can only be used to identify an account, it is not your date of birth, name, address or anything else that uniquely identifies you, unless you have decided to use your personal data in a publicly available(chatting in game or using forums) place.
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Well, at least you pointed out to everyone your ignorance of the TOS:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
Paragraph 15.2.g:
g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
It clearly states PERSONAL data, not ACCOUNT data. By definition, account data is public. Everyone's @handles are public or they would not be broadcast GAMEWIDE when you open a box and win a ship, or Beat NWS the first time, type in zone chat, etc.
Now I know you will argue this into the ground as people like you are incapable of admitting making a mistake, but the bottom line is: YOU ARE WRONG, dead wrong. Account Data and Personal Data are two completely different things.
Furthermore, the devs--geko included--are aware of our league table. They have made reference to it on podcasts, etc. So, they see the @handles, they see everyone's dps when they loaded the parser and looked at the league table.
So, thank you for pointing us to the TOS. You can now rest assured we are not violating anything in the TOS and you can now stop trolling the dps threads.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Ahha, now your are wrong :P But right :P I will admit I indeed overlooked the privacy policy personal data nitpicking... To me account data selfimplies as personal data... since its your own personal account...
Hmm, still Paragrapgh 16, subparagraph 16.4... but I have to look at that one better.
Anyway, does mister Geko and the Devs know that the majority of the @handles from there are colected WITHOUT the permission and even WITHOUT the acknoledgement of said persons? Not trolling you, asking a fair question.
And dont worry, i wont stop as long as i see you folks are trolling ppl, both in-game and out-side of the game on 3rd party sites, wich still is a malicious action that causes increase in hacking and gold seller spams.
I do not know if they do or not. But the assumption is they "do" know that it is collected and posted by the parser as they (the devs) are using the parser.
As for Paragraph 16, I still do not see anything in that paragraph prohibiting posting of an account @handle. Again, they are not held private within the game--as we constantly see game wide announcements of @handles.
As for an @handle being implicitly private, that is an impossible implication. The game is a MMO, so by definition account information is public. The @handle is a "public" identifier within the game. We do not post the toon name, so there is really no way to have people hut you down via gateway etc.
But, most importantly, the users "full toon name with @handle" is generated in the combatlog that Cryptic produces within the game. Basically, anyone can get full toon name by reading their combatlog. So, Cyptic is the one supplying the information we are using in the database.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
I can build ships that have decent dps. I just choose to not identify with a certain type of mindset because I feel well its not very community oriented. Like everyone else I have a romulan tactical officer that can melt ships, but I prefer my klingon engineer above all else. He can dps pretty well too but obviously not as well as a romulan tactical officer. The "dps league" is not composed of all people who can perform well inside the game. Its a subset with a particular mindset which unfortunately some of us have gotten a bad impression of.
Anyone in this thread who is commenting who is not in this particular clique is considered
a) a troll
b) a scrub
anyone who does 20k dps needs to "try harder" or whatever
anyhow who does less for whatever reason is well you know unworthy of even that label lol.
Why would I want to become a part of that culture. I find it offensive and exactly what does not build good communities. It does quite the opposite. There is no need for them to start these threads other then to do some pr or damage control. Its not like its a new theme or anything lol its an ad for a group who look at everyone not in this "league" in a certain way.
I am a girl though and this means I lack the will to be as competitive nor do i even care. What I do care about is the offensive outlook they have on the general playerbase. Its not a way to shall we say "win friends and influence people" and in many way its damaging the game and at more then one level. /shrug
ps. my forum username is not linked to my @handle. Ingame I do this for security reasons. I also am careful about using zone chat because of gold farmers but if they do get my ingame@handle they cannot link it to my arc account. This gives me some measure of security for farmers looking to hack accounts. I would suggest others do this its a bit safer. YOu only have to worry about the hackers farming names off the forums then. Its another reason why I have stopped posting as much. I was getting bombarded with account password requests from people surfing the forums trying to access game accounts.
I didn't say there was, I'm not going to rewrite everything I put though.
The handling on situations like this, is hard knowing ourselves, as the TOS can be pretty blatant at times.
But, even a simple @handle is sufficient enough to find anyone in game, there is no real need for the character(s) name at all to be included.
So, tread lightly when using character names and, @handles in this forum just in case so, you do not incur any possible reprimands.
Better safe than sorry I always say.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Seriously. Stop. You haven't got the faintest basis in reality to build upon and you're creating a vendetta-level hatred over something that's incosequential. You're trying so hard to hate the rankings because they list you, and making up reasons to hate them ("they're stealing my account info from your rankings list!" and other drivel). I can gauran-damn-tee you nobody is stealing from that list, because I've been on it for years. I rarely, if ever, get spam mails in-game. The majority of people on the rankings list will say the same. You're creating a causal link that doesn't exist, and then basing a VAST untapped amount of hatred on it and towards everybody associated for it when there is no real link.
You need to grow up, or stop playing this game. You're far too paranoid to be on the Internet, if you truly believe what you're typing.
Hmm, and you need to stop trolling. Frankly I am disgusted by your support in any actions of trolling or any malicious actions. Altho from some other threads you do seem to be a quite a troll.
Again, why coment in this thread, then? It is called the DPS league and channels for a reason. I repeat DPS. It is optional. Furthermore, it completely promotes community and it is the largest community in the game. There are thousands of players in the league and it continues to grow daily.
So I have to ask, what have done for the game/community? Seriously, I would like to know. The amount of positive feedback we get is rather significant.
Again, it is easy to criticize, but much harder to act.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
All players can make support and tanks. Like I said the best ones are in DPS league. Why?
First of all, you need to actually keep on doing the missions and finish it like HSE, etc or doing PvE and repeatedly. If you are a PuG, can are you even assured of finishing it? If you are a PvPer who spend more time in the forums, do you even actually do the missions?
Secondly, if you do finish it, do any of your group do 180k DPS? So the support ships are supporting 100k DPSers and tanks taking aggros from 100k DPSers. How can you say that the supports ship and tanking ships are better other than DPS league when there is no practice to take aggro from 100k DPSers and supporting 100k DPS ships?
Ok lets assume PvPers and PuGs are good at support ships and tanking. But they can only take aggros from 10k DPSers and can support runs that slow runs. However, is oblivious on how to take aggro from High DPSers and support fast runs because they have are supporting low DPS and have no idea or practice to actually take aggros from 100K DPS.
With regards to the game support high DPS, no problem. We have adapted. Certain players havent. If the game changes simply because some whinny players want to be spoon fed, I might rethink my stay in PvE. It is the reason why I left PvPin a year ago. STO PvP community has a very bad community. When you have a community asking for change of mechanics rather than adapting in game mechanics thats the time you leave the game.
Again, I repeat what other DPSers in this thread have said. If you dont like the community dont join and dont comment on this thread, be indifferent leave us with our ways and will leave you to your own ways. Because you wont see us posting the same thing over and over on RPers threads or PvPers threads.
The rep system itself is filled with all sorts of poor choices, with so much of its rewards being gear for niche builds or pieces that are at best side-grades to other rep pieces. But, it's also the most obvious and readily accessible progression system in the game, and isn't substantially undermined by the RNG factor that cripples crafting.
Unfortunately, that points to another major issue in STO facing PUGs: every aspect of compiling a build is fraught with countless noob-traps and other pitfalls. Worse than that, the mechanics themselves are unclear, often with the mathematics behind a mechanic functioning in a more complex or otherwise different way than the mechanic itself would suggest. Both of these seem to be intentional decisions by Cryptic, with the purpose of squeezing players for more of their time or money by luring them into make inefficient choices the player later feels a need to correct.