Comparing a random pug to a channel where they focus on teamplay and goals is a poor comparison.
Theres no doubt that the DPS leagues have had thier fair share of negative feedback. I was definitely one of them. But following the massive culling of the playerbase post Delta Rising, the ridiculous difficulty changes and the longer CD on STFS, the DPS leagues represents one of the few stable places you can put a team together.
They're not perfect, but if you've listened in on PubicEliteSTF at any given point of the day, I don't think you'd consider that a viable option any more. The channel owner doesn't even play the game anymore.
Are there some who act like dicks? Heck yes. On both sides of the argument.
So rather than fight it out in the forums, buck up and ignore those you don't like, and have fun in the game. Pretty simple solution.
For years, I was a casual player who kept to myself and avoided unnecessary contact with others. I just wanted to play the game and not deal with social outreach. It wasn't until one day I randomely PUGed and ended up with my current fleeties, who reached out to me with a friendly hand, and welcomed me into their community. From there, I learned to make friends in the game, to reach out to others, and to become a better player (and I don't just mean performance)
I'm still new to the game, but I agree with this totally, until a few weeks ago when I found my fleet, I had zero interaction with anyone else playing, everyone else in pugs seem like npcs with terrible ai. Since then I've started being a bit more vocal in chat and made a couple of friends, and upped my DPS by about 5k as people in general are helpful and always willing to give advice.
I don't see why people give the high DPS crowd a hard time, if you do anything in life, there is more than likely someone that understands what's going on more than you, and in general, if its a shared interest, then they will want to help bring you up to their level. That's why after 15 years of playing guitar, I still take lessons.
I don't see why people give the high DPS crowd a hard time, if you do anything in life, there is more than likely someone that understands what's going on more than you, and in general, if its a shared interest, then they will want to help bring you up to their level. That's why after 15 years of playing guitar, I still take lessons.
Wow, that's... an incredible analogy. Well done! :cool:
Comparing a random pug to a channel where they focus on teamplay and goals is a poor comparison.
When teamwork and the mission goals are what is being compared, why can't the DPS channels and pugs be held against one another? Except on extremely rare occasion, the DPS channel is much better, hence the title of this thread.
So rather than fight it out in the forums, buck up and ignore those you don't like, and have fun in the game. Pretty simple solution.
Or, as is being done here, explain why the recent attacks on the DPS channels are unwarranted and show those who haven't made up their mind on the matter yet why they exist in the first place. If you want to ignore certain people and move on go for it. Don't however think because that's what you've chosen to do it's what everyone else should do.
my personal experience with the DPSers is not good , its not forgiving,very "look at my Epeen" , doesnt fit well with other trains of thought "if your not one of 2 meta builds dont bother us we dont want you" attitude.
while most claim to be helpful , from my point of view its been more chastising then anything . while ive parsed my self and i could if i wanted get in to at least the 10k with one of my not upgraded builds , its not a club i want to be in . i feel that condones what the devs failed to fix in there game letting certain builds work while nerfing others .
this is from someone that was in the elite STF channel and ran queues in that channel regularly pre DR.
ive never been a META player, while understanding certain meta principles you can build a unique style that can be close to being effective in completing a objective .
ive also seen DPSers Blow a mission cuz they dont use there head andblame others for not being at there DPS leveland there in those hirer end channels , what that tells me is that just cuz you can parse it doesnt make you a good or a worthwhile player to team up with .
i cant tell you how many High Dpsers ive saved in with smart CC or other maneuver , lowering my time on target because someone doesnt have team Awareness .
Was in the 10k channel for a few days about a year ago, and most of the people I met there were quite vocal in how superior they were to everyone else, as if they were automatically worthy of respect because of their numbers alone. Those kind of people weren't worth putting up with a year ago, and if anything seem only more aggressive now. I'll stick to pugs, thanks.
Eh. a group put together out of people with similar/matching mindsets (how they approach a game, how they prefer to play, etc), will always be better than a PuG where you mix up people with different styles & goals. Regardless of whether that group is all DPSers, all RPers, all "casuals", whatever.
Just because the clashing of different gameplay styles is one of the biggest sources of conflict. /shrug
(PvPers vs PvEers, rushers vs take-their-time folks, DPSers vs casuals, "Stop Having Fun" Guys vs "It's just a game", jocks vs nerds, crunchy vs smooth... :P)
Or, as is being done here, explain why the recent attacks on the DPS channels are unwarranted and show those who haven't made up their mind on the matter yet why they exist in the first place. If you want to ignore certain people and move on go for it. Don't however think because that's what you've chosen to do it's what everyone else should do.
It's the elitism that generates the negativity. Your post only reinforces that. Perhaps a different route for a title:
"How I improved my gameplay, thanks to the DPS Channels", or
"A great way to avoid the STF CD's without losing - check out the DPS channels"
Whenever we segment ourselves with elitism (I'm better 'cause I can afford Nike. You suck because you don't have Nike shoes), we create the very environment you're trying to avoid. what's worse there are those who feed on that behaviour and we get this:
Was in the 10k channel for a few days about a year ago, and most of the people I met there were quite vocal in how superior they were to everyone else, as if they were automatically worthy of respect because of their numbers alone. Those kind of people weren't worth putting up with a year ago, and if anything seem only more aggressive now. I'll stick to pugs, thanks.
1.) He's not telling the entire truth. The old channels have been changed in the past year.
2.) He's reinforcing all the negative stereotypes, based on 2 days of activity.
The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of a few do not make the entire thing bad. We all love this game, or we wouldn't be here in the forum. Working together makes better sense, and that works better with a little humility.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
(who's really enjoying the 10K channel at the moment, and really frustrated by pugging, which like getting drunk has a nasty hangover)
It's the elitism that generates the negativity. Your post only reinforces that.
Are the DPS channels really, truly, elitism though? I don't think so, and here's why:
Are there certain requirements to be met in order to join? Yes
Are those requirements made to clear to anyone interested? Yes
Is the information relating to builds, game mechanics, strategy, experience etc public? Yes
Will any question asked in the DPS channels be answered honestly? Yes
In other words, anyone who wants to become a high-DPSer has all the tools available to join the ranks. Like in any other large group or organization there will individuals who don't act appropriately, and tarnish the name of that group for everyone. However in these channels it's extremely easy to find those individuals and remind them of the channel rules.
Lastly, this post does much more than reinforce some idea of elitism, as stated in the OP.
Are the DPS channels really, truly, elitism though? I don't think so, and here's why:
Are there certain requirements to be met in order to join? Yes
Are those requirements made to clear to anyone interested? Yes
Is the information relating to builds, game mechanics, strategy, experience etc public? Yes
Will any question asked in the DPS channels be answered honestly? Yes
In other words, anyone who wants to become a high-DPSer has all the tools available to join the ranks. Like in any other large group or organization there will individuals who don't act appropriately, and tarnish the name of that group for everyone. However in these channels it's extremely easy to find those individuals and remind them of the channel rules.
Lastly, this post does much more than reinforce some idea of elitism, as stated in the OP.
You misread my post. I'm not knocking the DPS teams, I'm complimenting them.
The title of the OP was what I took issue with.
If all you see are problems, nothing I type here will change your mind.
Are the DPS channels really, truly, elitism though? I don't think so, and here's why:
Are there certain requirements to be met in order to join? Yes
Are those requirements made to clear to anyone interested? Yes
Is the information relating to builds, game mechanics, strategy, experience etc public? Yes
Will any question asked in the DPS channels be answered honestly? Yes
In other words, anyone who wants to become a high-DPSer has all the tools available to join the ranks. Like in any other large group or organization there will individuals who don't act appropriately, and tarnish the name of that group for everyone. However in these channels it's extremely easy to find those individuals and remind them of the channel rules.
Lastly, this post does much more than reinforce some idea of elitism, as stated in the OP.
I view the DPS channels as counter productive for several reasons.
1. The underlying elitism. By simply using a DPS name you create a rift between the have/have not in terms of DPS, This while in my experience those with high DPS are often/usually the ones who mess up the (former) optionals.
2. What is the use in providing advice for queues and builds if those who actually need it, the newbies, do not have access to the channel or even know how to find the channels.
3. If there is knowledge contained in the DPS channels then those with the knowledge have a responsibility to the community as a whole to bring that knowledge and experience in the open and not keep it hidden within their own little group. Get out there and PUG already.
4. Queued content, once you know the tricks of the trade, is incredibly easy. Using a premade eliminates the last variance and makes the queued content even more mind numbing.
For the benefit of the community as a whole, the DPS channels should close and the members should PUG. Any possible benefit for use of the a DPS channels can be provided by any fleet worth it's weight.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I view the DPS channels as counter productive for several reasons.
1. The underlying elitism. By simply using a DPS name you create a rift between the have/have not in terms of DPS, This while in my experience those with high DPS are often/usually the ones who mess up the (former) optionals.
A name creates a rift? More like the channel acknowledges an already present rift and does something about it. As for high DPSers often/usually being the ones who mess optionals, I guess in your experience that could be the case. Maybe they are people who know how to build ships but don't know how to fly. Many factors at play here besides the one number, isn't that what all the anti-DPS channel people always say?
2. What is the use in providing advice for queues and builds if those who actually need it, the newbies, do not have access to the channel or even know how to find the channels.
DPS-Public, open to anyone who wants to join. Only been mentioned a dozen times already in this thread.
3. If there is knowledge contained in the DPS channels then those with the knowledge have a responsibility to the community as a whole to bring that knowledge and experience in the open and not keep it hidden within their own little group. Get out there and PUG already.
We get it out to anyone who asks. The channels make for a great place to bring everyone together to share and collaborate in one location instead of PMs, team chat, fleet chat etc. Also as it has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, DPS channel members (including myself) to still do pug runs and are constantly finding new players who want to learn.
Loving these calls for us to pug everything, as if our understanding of the game makes us solely responsible to carry everyone else. We're in game, on the forums, on teamspeaks, reddit, YouTube, EVERYWHERE telling people about what we have to offer. Don't come at us like we aren't trying to make the game experience better for anyone who wants to learn.
4. Queued content, once you know the tricks of the trade, is incredibly easy. Using a premade eliminates the last variance and makes the queued content even more mind numbing.
My response to the last time you brought this up:
I don't play a game to derive entertainment from the ignorance of others. If that's how you enjoy playing, well, I'm not sure what to say while being peaceful about it.
Sounds a lot like "hey Joe, let's go pug and see what those idiots have in store for us. Afterwards we can have some jollies at their expense while patting each other on the back, you know, instead of pointing those less-skilled than us in the direction of knowledge and experience."
For the benefit of the community as a whole, the DPS channels should close and the members should PUG. Any possible benefit for use of the a DPS channels can be provided by any fleet worth it's weight.
lol, my fleet has 3-4 semi-active players and I'm the only one who really enjoys pushing DPS to the max. Does that make us not worth our weight? Isn't this comment of yours pretty hypocritical of your DPS-elitism remarks?
Sorry, but, I definitely see and agree with what ddesjardins is saying here about the thread title being inflammatory. It's an open proclamation that X portion of the community is superior to Y portion of the community.
The core problem at the heart of the issue is the age-old animalistic instinct of "Us Versus Them"; Pack Mentality. Both 'sides' are to blame here, because at the end of the day.. we're all in the same boat. Everyone is playing the same video game together, trying to have fun in our own ways. Resenting and separating ourselves from each other, obviously, just creates a rift in the overall community.
After getting into the first two levels of the channels recently, I have to say that I have encountered some good people in there.
Previous to that, however, I had a very bad opinion of those within the channels due to the "prickish" antics of some that I had encountered in a Facebook group. I'll admit readily that I really don't want to go beyond the 30k channel because I don't want to risk running across those individuals in game.
Maybe the thread title could've been better. But I can see jjdez's reasons for the title. There's been a lot DPS hate thrown around recently. But I'll boil it down to the major problem that everyone here, at least implicitly, agrees to.
Players who aren't punching high DPS are tired of being yelled at by those who post the after-queue stats and brag
... and...
Players in the DPS Community are tired of being yelled at by those outside the channels for their elitism
... but...
Players who brag and are elitist are kicked out of the DPS Community
... so...
EVERYONE is really just complaining about the same, small group of players who are being elitist. The DPS Community doesn't like these elitist players, and the players who aren't in the channels don't like those same players
This is where the argument of not pugging comes into play. When you play with the DPS Community, you are not playing with the elitists who will show off the size of their DPS. But, there's a sadly high chance that when you pug you're pugging with someone who's there to get their kicks out of belittling other players.
I would say that the DPSers in the channels are the 'good guys.' The DPS Community is in fact there to help.
But it's the silly elitists who get their kicks showing off their DPS and belittling other players that are causing the problem.
There, everything's solved. Can we hug it out now? :P
Given the trend of late to bash the DPS crowd for whatever unwarranted reasons, I've decided to start making a list of why the DPS channels have a positive influence on those who join. I encourage others to add to this list, and provide those sitting on the fence with their opinions to the DPS community our side of the story.
1. Actual community, not happen-stance of just being on the same map for a short amount of time.
2. Positive interaction, feedback, advice, teamwork...oh and people actually reading team chat in a multiplayer game.
3. No trolls. (Or immediate and permanent removal of those found to be trolls.)
4. Politeness. For example in a DPS channel match people work together, communicate, and share respect for the fact other human beings are aiding you in your grind/progression etc. Most of the time in pugs people can't even be bothered to 'gg' at the end. They claim rewards, beaming out from the map and away from other humans as fast as possible without so much as a thanks. All the while pretending they are solely responsible for completing whatever mission, and cursing the fact they have to wait for others to play. (Or worse, depending entirely on those around them to complete the mission.)
5. They provide a source of game/technical instruction to PvE players, which the game itself does not. (courtesy of peterconnorfirst and patrickngo)
6. Provides a good build-testing environment. (courtesy of chipg7)
7. The DPS channels provide a reliable (game related) news service. (courtesy of fatman592)
8. High-quality farming. (courtesy of spaceeagle20)
9. You make friends with great competent, friendly players. (courtesy of jarvisandalfred)
10. Helps set personal goals and provides the tools needed to monitor your own person progress and growth. (courtesy of robdmc)
11. ?
Whaaa, it's not fair, those evil DPSers force me to conform!!!1!
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
So...let me get this straight. You want to show off the DPS channel as the good guys (which they are for the most part) by showing off how they are being unfairly being viewed as elitist jerks by being an elitist jerk?!? Your title alone is being an elitist jerk right there...many of your replies don't help the matter.
Providing reasoning as to why and how the DPS channels can help anyone who wants it is being an elitist jerk? Do you actually understand what an elitist is?
Yeah...NOT HELPING. The DPS channel does have pretty much one problem currently (the small number of jerks in the channel seems to have been take care of pretty well in the past year) and that is that the people of the channel seems to have the same issue as Geko. Some people should not be allowed to speak for a community and the DPS channel has quite a few of these who seem insistant that they do it anyways. Please stop.
I didn't realize you were the governing authority on who can and can't post as a member of the DPS community. Never once did I claim I was either. Hence asking for others input here to make it more well known as to what the channels can do for ANYONE.
Sorry, but, I definitely see and agree with what ddesjardins is saying here about the thread title being inflammatory. It's an open proclamation that X portion of the community is superior to Y portion of the community.
How so? The title is, "Why DPS channel matches are better than PUGs."
If the conventional wisdom of the anti-DPSers is that PUGs are, at best, unpredictable, how is that in disagreement with the thread title?
And why would anti-DPSers even take offense? Do you somehow consider the public queues your domain? At what point do you interpret PUG to mean you? Why are you so sensitive to the acronym DPS?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I was referring to the seemingly general - and wrong - consensus that members of the DPS leagues are elitest. I might be exaggerating, but, it seems like every week there's a new thread about how people that do higher than average DPS are ruining the game. In that sense, I agree with what others have said - it's a loaded title. Furthermore, individuals might be dissuaded from pushing for higher DPS if they continue to hear such talk, ergo, the suspicion that non-DPS league members are looked down upon within the league itself.
Summarily, I believe you could have hilighted the positives of the league without being off-putting. Rather, I think we ought to attract as many people as possible to the league for the overall goal of a better gaming experience. Simply suggesting off the bat that individuals that play the public queues are demonstrating a lack of ability is a roadblock to that goal.
Be this as it may - I agree with everything you said - just not how it was said vis a vis "better than pugs"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Go and have a wee, the second act gets considerably weirder." -Tim Minchin
Comments
Random hate on PvPers? Still amazes me some people believe PvPers cannot be DPSers, and vice verse.
Comparing a random pug to a channel where they focus on teamplay and goals is a poor comparison.
Theres no doubt that the DPS leagues have had thier fair share of negative feedback. I was definitely one of them. But following the massive culling of the playerbase post Delta Rising, the ridiculous difficulty changes and the longer CD on STFS, the DPS leagues represents one of the few stable places you can put a team together.
They're not perfect, but if you've listened in on PubicEliteSTF at any given point of the day, I don't think you'd consider that a viable option any more. The channel owner doesn't even play the game anymore.
Are there some who act like dicks? Heck yes. On both sides of the argument.
So rather than fight it out in the forums, buck up and ignore those you don't like, and have fun in the game. Pretty simple solution.
I'm still new to the game, but I agree with this totally, until a few weeks ago when I found my fleet, I had zero interaction with anyone else playing, everyone else in pugs seem like npcs with terrible ai. Since then I've started being a bit more vocal in chat and made a couple of friends, and upped my DPS by about 5k as people in general are helpful and always willing to give advice.
I don't see why people give the high DPS crowd a hard time, if you do anything in life, there is more than likely someone that understands what's going on more than you, and in general, if its a shared interest, then they will want to help bring you up to their level. That's why after 15 years of playing guitar, I still take lessons.
Wow, that's... an incredible analogy. Well done! :cool:
Welcome to the STO forums, please find an open seat.
When teamwork and the mission goals are what is being compared, why can't the DPS channels and pugs be held against one another? Except on extremely rare occasion, the DPS channel is much better, hence the title of this thread.
Or, as is being done here, explain why the recent attacks on the DPS channels are unwarranted and show those who haven't made up their mind on the matter yet why they exist in the first place. If you want to ignore certain people and move on go for it. Don't however think because that's what you've chosen to do it's what everyone else should do.
while most claim to be helpful , from my point of view its been more chastising then anything . while ive parsed my self and i could if i wanted get in to at least the 10k with one of my not upgraded builds , its not a club i want to be in . i feel that condones what the devs failed to fix in there game letting certain builds work while nerfing others .
this is from someone that was in the elite STF channel and ran queues in that channel regularly pre DR.
ive never been a META player, while understanding certain meta principles you can build a unique style that can be close to being effective in completing a objective .
ive also seen DPSers Blow a mission cuz they dont use there head andblame others for not being at there DPS leveland there in those hirer end channels , what that tells me is that just cuz you can parse it doesnt make you a good or a worthwhile player to team up with .
i cant tell you how many High Dpsers ive saved in with smart CC or other maneuver , lowering my time on target because someone doesnt have team Awareness .
Just because the clashing of different gameplay styles is one of the biggest sources of conflict. /shrug
(PvPers vs PvEers, rushers vs take-their-time folks, DPSers vs casuals, "Stop Having Fun" Guys vs "It's just a game", jocks vs nerds, crunchy vs smooth... :P)
It's the elitism that generates the negativity. Your post only reinforces that. Perhaps a different route for a title:
"How I improved my gameplay, thanks to the DPS Channels", or
"A great way to avoid the STF CD's without losing - check out the DPS channels"
Whenever we segment ourselves with elitism (I'm better 'cause I can afford Nike. You suck because you don't have Nike shoes), we create the very environment you're trying to avoid. what's worse there are those who feed on that behaviour and we get this:
1.) He's not telling the entire truth. The old channels have been changed in the past year.
2.) He's reinforcing all the negative stereotypes, based on 2 days of activity.
The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of a few do not make the entire thing bad. We all love this game, or we wouldn't be here in the forum. Working together makes better sense, and that works better with a little humility.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
(who's really enjoying the 10K channel at the moment, and really frustrated by pugging, which like getting drunk has a nasty hangover)
Are the DPS channels really, truly, elitism though? I don't think so, and here's why:
Are there certain requirements to be met in order to join? Yes
Are those requirements made to clear to anyone interested? Yes
Is the information relating to builds, game mechanics, strategy, experience etc public? Yes
Will any question asked in the DPS channels be answered honestly? Yes
In other words, anyone who wants to become a high-DPSer has all the tools available to join the ranks. Like in any other large group or organization there will individuals who don't act appropriately, and tarnish the name of that group for everyone. However in these channels it's extremely easy to find those individuals and remind them of the channel rules.
Lastly, this post does much more than reinforce some idea of elitism, as stated in the OP.
I just think it's important for good players to not completely abandon the PUG community.
You misread my post. I'm not knocking the DPS teams, I'm complimenting them.
The title of the OP was what I took issue with.
If all you see are problems, nothing I type here will change your mind.
I view the DPS channels as counter productive for several reasons.
1. The underlying elitism. By simply using a DPS name you create a rift between the have/have not in terms of DPS, This while in my experience those with high DPS are often/usually the ones who mess up the (former) optionals.
2. What is the use in providing advice for queues and builds if those who actually need it, the newbies, do not have access to the channel or even know how to find the channels.
3. If there is knowledge contained in the DPS channels then those with the knowledge have a responsibility to the community as a whole to bring that knowledge and experience in the open and not keep it hidden within their own little group. Get out there and PUG already.
4. Queued content, once you know the tricks of the trade, is incredibly easy. Using a premade eliminates the last variance and makes the queued content even more mind numbing.
For the benefit of the community as a whole, the DPS channels should close and the members should PUG. Any possible benefit for use of the a DPS channels can be provided by any fleet worth it's weight.
And the elitism issue, which I tried to address. No worries though.
Makes me wonder why I joined the Fleet, OP.
Don't bother to get up, I'll just go take care of that for ya.
A name creates a rift? More like the channel acknowledges an already present rift and does something about it. As for high DPSers often/usually being the ones who mess optionals, I guess in your experience that could be the case. Maybe they are people who know how to build ships but don't know how to fly. Many factors at play here besides the one number, isn't that what all the anti-DPS channel people always say?
DPS-Public, open to anyone who wants to join. Only been mentioned a dozen times already in this thread.
We get it out to anyone who asks. The channels make for a great place to bring everyone together to share and collaborate in one location instead of PMs, team chat, fleet chat etc. Also as it has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, DPS channel members (including myself) to still do pug runs and are constantly finding new players who want to learn.
Loving these calls for us to pug everything, as if our understanding of the game makes us solely responsible to carry everyone else. We're in game, on the forums, on teamspeaks, reddit, YouTube, EVERYWHERE telling people about what we have to offer. Don't come at us like we aren't trying to make the game experience better for anyone who wants to learn.
My response to the last time you brought this up:
I don't play a game to derive entertainment from the ignorance of others. If that's how you enjoy playing, well, I'm not sure what to say while being peaceful about it.
Sounds a lot like "hey Joe, let's go pug and see what those idiots have in store for us. Afterwards we can have some jollies at their expense while patting each other on the back, you know, instead of pointing those less-skilled than us in the direction of knowledge and experience."
lol, my fleet has 3-4 semi-active players and I'm the only one who really enjoys pushing DPS to the max. Does that make us not worth our weight? Isn't this comment of yours pretty hypocritical of your DPS-elitism remarks?
The core problem at the heart of the issue is the age-old animalistic instinct of "Us Versus Them"; Pack Mentality. Both 'sides' are to blame here, because at the end of the day.. we're all in the same boat. Everyone is playing the same video game together, trying to have fun in our own ways. Resenting and separating ourselves from each other, obviously, just creates a rift in the overall community.
Previous to that, however, I had a very bad opinion of those within the channels due to the "prickish" antics of some that I had encountered in a Facebook group. I'll admit readily that I really don't want to go beyond the 30k channel because I don't want to risk running across those individuals in game.
This is where the argument of not pugging comes into play. When you play with the DPS Community, you are not playing with the elitists who will show off the size of their DPS. But, there's a sadly high chance that when you pug you're pugging with someone who's there to get their kicks out of belittling other players.
I would say that the DPSers in the channels are the 'good guys.' The DPS Community is in fact there to help.
But it's the silly elitists who get their kicks showing off their DPS and belittling other players that are causing the problem.
There, everything's solved. Can we hug it out now? :P
I'd say probably because most of the PUG runs don't deserve a 'gg'.
Seriously, though, I agree with everything you said.
"Go and have a wee, the second act gets considerably weirder." -Tim Minchin
Providing reasoning as to why and how the DPS channels can help anyone who wants it is being an elitist jerk? Do you actually understand what an elitist is?
I didn't realize you were the governing authority on who can and can't post as a member of the DPS community. Never once did I claim I was either. Hence asking for others input here to make it more well known as to what the channels can do for ANYONE.
What people? What suspicions?
If the conventional wisdom of the anti-DPSers is that PUGs are, at best, unpredictable, how is that in disagreement with the thread title?
And why would anti-DPSers even take offense? Do you somehow consider the public queues your domain? At what point do you interpret PUG to mean you? Why are you so sensitive to the acronym DPS?
I should have been more specific.
I was referring to the seemingly general - and wrong - consensus that members of the DPS leagues are elitest. I might be exaggerating, but, it seems like every week there's a new thread about how people that do higher than average DPS are ruining the game. In that sense, I agree with what others have said - it's a loaded title. Furthermore, individuals might be dissuaded from pushing for higher DPS if they continue to hear such talk, ergo, the suspicion that non-DPS league members are looked down upon within the league itself.
Summarily, I believe you could have hilighted the positives of the league without being off-putting. Rather, I think we ought to attract as many people as possible to the league for the overall goal of a better gaming experience. Simply suggesting off the bat that individuals that play the public queues are demonstrating a lack of ability is a roadblock to that goal.
Be this as it may - I agree with everything you said - just not how it was said vis a vis "better than pugs"
"Go and have a wee, the second act gets considerably weirder." -Tim Minchin