okay you do realize the definition of an exploit is basically taking advantage of bugs to gain advantages in gameplay right?
Umm, I'm referring that one guy who actually does the theorycrafting and in-game testing; I guess you could say everyone else is a dirty exploiter, but that one guy has some skill.
Your entire post detailed why you choose to see that versus anything else, to the point where you'll see it even when it's not there.
I could have ended my last post the way I started it , namely by saying that there are a lot of good (aka decent) folks on the DPS channels .
I chose not to repeat myself .
As to seeing things that are not there ... , that's funny considering that one of the two posts that I replied to insinuated that I was this and that by mixing my words with other ppls and taking them out of context , and then coming about and calling me a hypocrite and a troll .
... not that I mind being called a troll ... , but I also deal in facts that actually happened ... such as my non-participation by choice in the DPS bashing thread from 2 weeks ago that in the end spawned this "positive spin on the DPS community" thread ...
Mosul and aefwin are known trolls and it is best to simply ignore them. Look at their descriptions regarding the channels and the people in there: "malicious, revolting behavior, short sighted, I don't have to be nice, etc. . . ." Yet, all-the-while they are telling us that we are the ones exhibiting this behavior--again stunning hypocrisy.
As for calls to close the channels? Again, why? Simply don't join them. Why must you enforce your "idea" of conformity on everyone else? These are OPTIONAL "private" channels maintained for like minded individuals. No one is making you join the channels, nor is anyone making you reply in this thread--yet you seem to hold quite a bit of animosity towards the Channels and League--so much so that you guys are making most of the posts in here. Again, why?
I am a troll?? LOL. Thats a good one. You better look in the mirror when you talk about trolling and hypocrisy. You even dare to speak of private and optional?? Then why someone's @handle is put on some 3rd party sites, without permission of said person or alot of times even without been aware of that?? Why?? Where is the optional and private concepts here? I dont give a TRIBBLE about your channels, nor do I want to be associated with them, in any form. Get it? I am not enforcing anything on anyone. You ppl are doing that.
And you say no1 is pushing down anyone's throat your channels. But the moment you parse someone, in a PUBLIC channel or PUBLIC queue and you put their @handle on your "innoficial" chart, you just DO that. But of course you ppl cant be bother with that... You do what ever you want without any respect of other ppl or any rules (courtesy and even ToS rules , since you break them without any shame). And then some folks get even 100 hacking attempts a day (not trolling, you can check even here on forums, was a tread about that) or some spam bots pop up with veteran status, no doubt TRIBBLE accounts.
Truth is a funny thing .
A large percent of the playerbase (even some of the highest DPS-ers) came to STO after it went F2P .
I never greeted any of them with terms like "freeloaders" , "newbies" or anything else .
Let's just say that that was not the attitude that was displayed in return from some of these folk .
You're welcome to respect the "stripes" that Ryan and his type have earned in your eyes .
I OTOTH see their choice of words , the attitude behind those words , and it makes me want none of dat .
After all , when you forget that you are just as equal a human being as the next guy ... , well ... *shrug*.
I guess I just can't feel as worked up about it as you do, really. Primarily, like I said, because the few times I've spoken with him, in chat, he actually appeared surprisingly modest and soft-mannered.
And c'mon, who hasn't ever been among equal-leveled people, and made an off the cuff remark about them n00bs who can't even kill the gens fast enough?! Doesn't make em evil people; or condescending, or elitists: just human.
And then some folks get even 100 hacking attempts a day (not trolling, you can check even here on forums, was a tread about that) or some spam bots pop up with veteran status, no doubt TRIBBLE accounts.
That's a whole different issue. Do you have any reason to believe that the DPS ranking database is how the targets of these alleged "hacking attempts" are being found?
Because there's like 8000000000 different ways to become the target of a hacking attempt, and spam bots don't need a list like this to find you.
As to seeing things that are not there ... , that's funny considering that one of the two posts that I replied to insinuated that I was this and that by mixing my words with other ppls and taking them out of context , and then coming about and calling me a hypocrite and a troll.
Did I call you a troll and forget, or am I just not following this thread closely enough?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
What is the problem? The game is casual and is not a good base for any kind of serious competition. If that happens, I like to see that it is fitted into a niche, not a standard play style. Because the casual concept, you can make your high DPS build. The game makers had no eye for this aspect.
Great post, I can't argue with your perspective on most points. Only thing I'll put out there is my perspective on the 'casual' nature of the game.
First off, agreed - STO is largely a casual game, largely by nature of being Star Trek, where the draw of the game is playing around in the Trek universe. But, with Delta Rising and the queue revamp Cryptic did draw some lines in the sand. There are now three levels of content, where each level is geared at a player who has a progressively maximized build by game mechanics - where DPS is the result.
So basically, the line of Normal through to Elite, is casual through to game mechanics masters.
I have absolutely nothing against players who couldn't care less about their DPS. Hey, if a player is having fun running the game the way they want (maybe a canon build, or running some of the more fun weapons and abilities), by all means I hope they have a wicked-fun time.
Case in point, I'm working on an alt that'll be flying the T3 D-7, just for kicks. But, I'll police myself out of running end-game content with that alt, because it's not fair for me to show up with a 'fun' ship amongst players who are going into higher-difficulty queues having put time and effort into their builds.
So with that in mind, where I take issue is where players are taking these builds that - though entirely legitimate and fun in some way - are sub-par as far as the game mechanics are concerned, and are demanding that they be successful in higher difficulty content that requires a stronger build. Hence the high fail rate of pugs. You can't take a 'fun' build into a high-requirement PvE. And far too often, I'll see players running builds in Advanced and Elite PvEs that are absolutely horrid as far as the game mechanics are concerned - again, perfectly legitimate and enjoyable builds in other circumstances, but players can't then expect to perform adequately in content that demands something greater.
So I'm coming at this from the perspective of being tired of players taking builds into Advanced and Elite content that are not properly spec'd for that content. All that serves is to make it very difficult for players who have prepared adequately for the higher-end content to actually succeed at that content - and the players that took the sub-par build into the queue aren't going to get anything out of a fail anyways.
Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with any build that any player runs in the game. But when Cryptic designs content specifically for players who understand and utilize the game mechanics to the fullest extent, players who are not doing so should have a little respect and not ruin the fun for those who are.
Of course, this doesn't in any way excuse when high-DPS players dump their parse results into chat and stomp all over everyone else in the pug... that's trolling, and that's just gotta stop. But on the flip side, players who are not geared for Advanced and Elite content and get up in other players' faces for being 'elitist'... that's trolling too, just from the other side.
As I said a few posts back, I only just started playing Korfez this past month. Prior to that, I knew that my build was not adequate enough to compete at that level. I was fine in Normal and getting better with Advanced, but before February I had to admit to myself that I was just not ready for Elite yet. And I certainly didn't feel it right to ruin the fun for players who are going into Korfez with adequate builds.
That's my two cents, and that's where my current frustration lies with the back-and-forth trolling in pugs. I feel that with the three levels of difficulty in queues, players should recognize where the are in that line and remain there until they truly feel they can perform adequately at the next level. And on the other hand, no one has the right to dump on other players just because that player feels somehow superior, by whatever measure.
So Porchsong , next time you want to show up and talk about the "stunning hypocrisy" of others , be sure that those who you're here to defend are not guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse others of being .
. . . .
You're welcome to respect the "stripes" that Ryan and his type have earned in your eyes .
I OTOTH see their choice of words , the attitude behind those words , and it makes me want none of dat .
After all , when you forget that you are just as equal a human being as the next guy ... , well ... *shrug* .
And if it stopped there , meh .
But when that attitude is carried over to how you address any potential Devs that you seek to interact with :
" Use one of your non dev accounts, no pink text in the DPS channels." -- sarcasmdetector
Well , you have what you have .
Kings of their own little ant hill ... , with all the imaginary rights and self bestowed privileges there in ... .
... or in other words , remind me when you meimeitoo took upon yourself to literally tell a Dev what to do in his own fraking game , if he wanted to partake in your agust company ... ?
I am a troll?? LOL. Thats a good one. You better look in the mirror when you talk about trolling and hypocrisy. You even dare to speak of private and optional?? Then why someone's @handle is put on some 3rd party sites, without permission of said person or alot of times even without been aware of that?? Why?? Where is the optional and private concepts here? I dont give a TRIBBLE about your channels, nor do I want to be associated with them, in any form. Get it? I am not enforcing anything on anyone. You ppl are doing that.
And you say no1 is pushing down anyone's throat your channels. But the moment you parse someone, in a PUBLIC channel or PUBLIC queue and you put their @handle on your "innoficial" chart, you just DO that. But of course you ppl cant be bother with that... You do what ever you want without any respect of other ppl or any rules (courtesy and even ToS rules , since you break them without any shame). And then some folks get even 100 hacking attempts a day (not trolling, you can check even here on forums, was a tread about that) or some spam bots pop up with veteran status, no doubt TRIBBLE accounts.
Umm...you guys were. I'm sorry, but when I was posting about the DPS channel having elitist jerks, you guys DID HAVE THEM. I admitted that it has gotten a LOT better in the past year(mostly the last few months)...in fact it maybe even be in this thread. Which is why you didn't hear from me about the DPS channel and elitist jerks in a while now. And even then I always said there were quite a few very nice and helpful people in said channel. Not sure how you take that as I think the WHOLE channel was bad...but yeah...I'm a troll because I recognize that there was a positive change in the DPS channel...WTF?!?
So, again I struggle with why are you guys even posting on this thread. We get it, you hate the channels and you won't join. Then why participate in ANY discussion regarding the channel? You see the if you truly didn't care about the channels then you would be indifferent. For example, I know there is a lot of players who enjoy the role playing aspect of this game. I have absolutely no interest in RP nor joining their channel. In fact, I have no opinion regarding RP at all other than I am glad to see that they have a channel and are building a community and wish them all the well. Because I have no interest in RP, I do not go on the thread and "tell" them they are doing it wrong, or they are elitists, or [insert any derogatory term]. I simply am indifferent.
You guys seem to have an inability to heed your own advice. It is like you are on a crusade against dps and the channels. You tell us over and over that you do not want too or will not join the channels and community as a whole, yet you are CONSTANTLY posting in our threads and doing all other sorts of bellyaching. It is okay; we get it. Now it is time for you to become indifferent and go enjoy the game in the style you like to play and leave us to our own devices. Trolling our threads with pointless arguments that fall on deaf ears is a colossal waste of everyone's time.
You're telling everyone to be tolerant of other play styles all-the-while being completely intolerant of ours--hypocrisy at its finest. We have thousands of players in the channels and league. We don't force anyone to participate. It is all optional. By the way, that "scrub" RyanSTO has made and posted hours of video guides to help the new players learn the mechanics of the game. Our builds are online. We freely offer advice and help to any who ask and is willing to listen. What have you done for the community other than sit in the forums and insult those of us who are trying to help? Complaining is the easy path--action is the tough one. And we all know what path you have chosen.
Again, we all know it is impossible for you to not have the last word--and that is okay too. But it is far time for you to move on and become indifferent--this advice will serve you will in life in general.
So with that in mind, where I take issue is where players are taking these builds that - though entirely legitimate and fun in some way - are sub-par as far as the game mechanics are concerned, and are demanding that they be successful in higher difficulty content that requires a stronger build. Hence the high fail rate of pugs. You can't take a 'fun' build into a high-requirement PvE.
I don't know how you're finding their builds, to confirm that they're "fun" builds.
I suspect the problem plaguing advanced queues is that too many players erroneously believe that they must run the advanced queues in order to get the gear needed to engage in advanced queues.
I'm not sure what piece or pieces they find mandatory, but I understand that the path to completing rep gears without running advanced queues is not always the clearest one.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Yeah I never understood the elitist attitude at all.
"I was here from beta"
"I do OP DPS"
"I spend too much money on this game"
All extremely stupid and equally invalid ways of proclaiming superiority over fellow players.
Whatever happened to community and having FUN?
Also I love your signature. Seriously sad how true it is, they even removed random star clusters.
When management decisions THAT stupid start being made, we begin to realize that PWI's execs were all turned into protozoa by Q.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Yeah I never understood the elitist attitude at all.
"I was here from beta"
"I do OP DPS"
"I spend too much money on this game"
All extremely stupid and equally invalid ways of proclaiming superiority over fellow players.
Whatever happened to community and having FUN?
Also I love your signature. Seriously sad how true it is, they even removed random star clusters.
When management decisions THAT stupid start being made, we begin to realize that PWI's execs were all turned into protozoa by Q.
Except that's the view of people looking in without any comprehension of what's actually going on. Just like looking at a spreadsheet of balance data for 400 ships would be completely incomprehensible for most people too. Some would react and say all that data was a total waste of time and that whoever was doing it should do it their way as it's better, even if that way was to use single digits in notepad.
The people who are using parse information correctly aren't using it to stroke anything, it's merely data to be analysed and then used to improve the efficiency of a build. Going for the 200K mark would be cool, but then again it's only cool to those who really want to achieve the highest damage output in the game. Go into any MMO and there will be someone who holds the damage record, but it's only STO where they are truly vilified for their achievements, even if it's within a fictional game world.
If people aren't interested in the DPS channels and can't forgive someone for getting frustrated with others once in a while then why even post in threads pertaining to the DPS League? Either those people secretly do wish they could be a part of the DPS group, or they are unable to move past whatever slight they seem to have taken affront against, which in Aelfwin's case don't seem to involve himself at all.
Seriously why do these few people devolve any discussion into a ******** session about their own ego???
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Id like to share a recent experience I had while observing the DPS Public Channel. As I have yet to bother trying for DPS 10k or anyting above it as I refuse to do so until I have a sufficient build and better computer that can handle the game and parsing at the same time.
The other day a random player popped into the DPSPublic and immediately began to explain that he/she had been out of the game since before Delta Rising and had realized upon return that his/her build was a PvP oriented. And that the build would be insufficient for the current state of the game. Within seconds three of the 30k + Channel members jumped onto DPSPublic and began to discuss the players build with them and the changes they would need to make to improve the build.
This discussion took well over an hour and a half. And through out the entire discussion the three high dpsers were calm and respectful. Even when the newcomer seemed frustrated and a bit uneasy about making certain changes. They simply kept their cool and explained calmly why those changes were needed to improve the build.
This is what I experience daily in regards to DPS Public. There are times where the discussion can become intense between individuals discussing builds with differing tastes. But even in DPSPublic there are people willing to step up and give advice and help those asking for it.
Because there's like 8000000000 different ways to become the target of a hacking attempt, and spam bots don't need a list like this to find you.
But thats the thing. Putting someone's @handle on a 3rd party site just adds one more way. It weakens security. Cryptic, and allmost every game company, tells you that your acc security is your own responsability. But how can that be valid anymore, when your @handle, and possible your acc ID in STO case, is been broadcast outside the game on another site?
For example, I know there is a lot of players who enjoy the role playing aspect of this game. I have absolutely no interest in RP nor joining their channel. In fact, I have no opinion regarding RP at all other than I am glad to see that they have a channel and are building a community and wish them all the well. Because I have no interest in RP, I do not go on the thread and "tell" them they are doing it wrong, or they are elitists, or [insert any derogatory term]. I simply am indifferent.
Good example that just proves my point. In your example, any one of the RPs take your @handle, with or without your permission, and post in on a 3rd party site?
Or troll you in chat by belitting you that you may not have a canon ship, canon weapon or stuff like that? Tell me?
The people who are using parse information correctly aren't using it to stroke anything, it's merely data to be analysed and then used to improve the efficiency of a build. Going for the 200K mark would be cool, but then again it's only cool to those who really want to achieve the highest damage output in the game. Go into any MMO and there will be someone who holds the damage record, but it's only STO where they are truly vilified for their achievements, even if it's within a fictional game world.
And no one stops you for improving your build. You want to parse YOUR data and improve YOUR build? Go ahead. You do that for a friend or someone else, by all means. You get your friends and get toghether in a channel? Kudos to you.
But why you ppl parse public area (channels and queues), gather that data and then post someone's @handle on a 3rd party site without any permission or acknoledgement, hmm? Someone promoted you to Dev status and intrusted you with gathering data and metrics on other players?? Tell me?
To be fair...that was a while ago...and I did give him quite a bit of flak over the choice in titles he used when he did it...but it was a long while ago. Even if we assume he was in earnest then (which is hard to tell from the posts in that thread), people change. The DPS channel ain't what it was when that happened now. It is a bit unfair to hold that against them I think.
I appreciate your POV and your attempt to be reasonable , but due to continuing experience it's simply not my own .
I do my best not to tell a parser to fu%k @ff when at an end of a non-DPS channel related run I get a parsing score in chat from him / her instead of a "gg" , but I can't help but see how this ... this "culture" poisoned the game .
I should not have to make a post requesting to stop getting (seemingly) automated invites a few of the said DPS channels .
(see , after the second or third time , that's called trolling in game)
Nor should I need to mention that posting DPS channels participants @handles on a public website without their knowing & authorization amounts as nothing more than bait for gold sellers .
You're telling me that the "top" ppl have changed ?
I'd like to see some proof , instead of the continued multi-layered idiocy that I'm confronted with .
Are they not responsible for the intent or attitude of every person who posts a parse or has an attitude ?
That's very true .
But like I said , continued experience on multiple levels leaves me unable to change my mind on how certain ppl operate , be that toward players or even Devs .
Still , I am sorry if I insulted in any way folks who who participate in the DPS channels but keep their DPS hobby to themselves .
It's difficult to say negative stuff about said channels without implying that "all are guilty by association" to the channels or certain top operators .
Good example that just proves my point. In your example, any one of the RPs take your @handle, with or without your permission, and post in on a 3rd party site?
Your @handle is public the minute you log into any public zone.
I don't know what lengths you'd need to go to to protect your @handle, but good luck with being a hermit.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I do my best not to tell a parser to fu%k @ff when at an end of a non-DPS channel related run I get a parsing score in chat from him / her instead of a "gg" , but I can't help but see how this ... this "culture" poisoned the game .
I should not have to make a post requesting to stop getting (seemingly) automated invites a few of the said DPS channels .
(see , after the second or third time , that's called trolling in game)
Nor should I need to mention that posting DPS channels participants @handles on a public website without their knowing & authorization amounts as nothing more than bait for gold sellers .
You're telling me that the "top" ppl have changed ?
I'd like to see some proof , instead of the continued multi-layered idiocy that I'm confronted with .
But like I said , continued experience leaves on multiple levels leave me unable to change my mind on how certain ppl operate , be that toward players or even Devs .
It's difficult to say negative stuff about said channels without implying that "all are guilty by association" to the channels or certain top operators .
I hope you don't mind me cutting out bits of your post, just what I've left there is what I feel is quite poignant. At the end of the day what got on my nerves in the end was the ongoing BS that constantly came out of those channels.
I've had fleet mates complain about being sidelined in the channel because they had a bad run in a channel run before now, and I've lost track of the times that members get irritated because of the rudeness of DPS people in pug groups. On top of that and from my own experience, you also get the seemingly endless supply of presumably the same people who clearly have no true understanding of the game mechanics outside of the DPS ring.
Also, whether the DPS people like it or not, the fact that DPS-centric builds are the only ones that didn't get the rather direct shaft with DR just goes to show how broken the game is right now. Pre-DR you would get the odd occasion where even higher range DPSer's (who clearly didn't have an ego issue) enjoyed the company of the tank or drain ship or whatever and even took the time to thank you for being helpful. Now though taking those builds into most missions is considered "not pulling your weight" and frankly a lot of people don't have the time or the resources to build a completely new ship from scratch, and that is assuming they'd want to in the first place.
The DPS channels I'm sure are a haven for some and as damaging for the game as they clearly have been, either by the fault of their members or the devs incompetence at building the game right, I get that, at least for the non-egoistic ones. But frankly I did give these channels a chance, and honestly my reservations were proved true, and on more points than I've stated.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
So, again I struggle with why are you guys even posting on this thread.
That's ok , seeing that that does not seem to be the only thing you're struggling with .
We get it, you hate the channels
No you don't get it .
Better yet , I get it that you're not even trying to understand , as you say by your own words :
Trolling our threads with pointless arguments that fall on deaf ears
Yuppp , that's as far as your understanding (or lack there of) goes .
why participate in ANY discussion regarding the channel?
I made it a point to look up the previous discussion on this topic , as it served a precursor to this "everything is awesome" thread .
21 pages or arguments , and not one post by my humble self .
So you were saying ... ?
You see the if you truly didn't care about the channels then you would be indifferent.
I'll post it here for the 10th time for you to read :
If I wasn't parsed or trolled by parsers on a near daily basis (despite not belonging to any of your "spectacular channels") , I would probably live and let live .
What you are asking of me is to be trolled and let go .
Sorry , not happening .
And since it's not you who does the in game trolling , perhaps it's you who should let go ... (or perhaps have a talk with your buddies about why posting ppls @handles on a public web page equals disseminating personal information without the knowledge or agreement of the participants of your channels) .
Now it is time for you to become indifferent and go enjoy the game in the style you like to play and leave us to our own devices.
Aaand here we get to the point where one of you starts to tell others what to do .
Here , let me follow your own example here :
Why don't you and your lot behave like the RP-ers (that you brought up as an example) , and not make a single DPS related post or video on these forums .
Be just like the RP-ers .
Be happy in your channels , and don't post a single parse outside of those channels ingame, or outside of your web page .
That way , I won't see you , nor will I experience your toxic influence ingame .
Like this advice so far ?
I bet you're gonna do exactly like I asked , right ?
Right ?
Also, whether the DPS people like it or not, the fact that DPS-centric builds are the only ones that didn't get the rather direct shaft with DR just goes to show how broken the game is right now. Pre-DR you would get the odd occasion where even higher range DPSer's (who clearly didn't have an ego issue) enjoyed the company of the tank or drain ship or whatever and even took the time to thank you for being helpful. Now though taking those builds into most missions is considered "not pulling your weight" and frankly a lot of people don't have the time or the resources to build a completely new ship from scratch, and that is assuming they'd want to in the first place.
You can still bring in support ships including tank. Except that having a tank means you need to be in a premade.
There is a big difference between bringing a tank on a Pug and bringing a tank in premade. In a Pug you dont know what the others are bringing. What happens now if everyone brings a tank? or everyone brings a support ship?
There is also a matter of level of difference build and skill. You can bring a support nannie recluse with no tac console whatsoever in a PuG and made for premades. And that recluse will most of the time outdps, outtank, and out heal every PuG. Thats how aweful the level of quality PuGs have become.
Tanks and support ships are still viable except that those who knows how to use and build one for optimal PvE are also in the DPS league. You need a lot of organization and communication just to make those kind of ships work. PuGs are anything but organized nor open to communication.
You can still bring in support ships including tank. Except that having a tank means you need to be in a premade.
Wow , you managed to make it into the second sentence before starting to tell ppl what to do .
Should I be impressed ?
There is a big difference between bringing a tank on a Pug and bringing a tank in premade. In a Pug you dont know what the others are bringing. What happens now if everyone brings a tank? or everyone brings a support ship?
Tanks and support ships are still viable except that those who knows how to use and build one for optimal PvE are also in the DPS league. You need a lot of organization and communication just to make those kind of ships work.
In the land of PVP maybe ... . :rolleyes:
If it helps , the above horse manure sounds very much like a dude from last week on a Normal run who was pleading that members of said team not play Advanced .
... it did not help his case that his toon's name was literally "God" , as it made it too easy to mock him , his parser , his attitude , or his lack of understanding that he was in a mostly premade group that was trying to win with intentionally low DPS ...
Had so much fun showing him my Mk1 white Phaser relay (FTW!) ... .
Here's hoping he fell off his chair .
If ppl from the chans act arrogant its mostly ppl from the 10-30k range aka the lower chans. Player from the higher chans (at least in my personal experience) are almost all quite social/nice ppl to know, helpful if asked questions/build-advice and in general dont act arrogant/demeaning
If it helps , the above horse manure sounds very much like a dude from last week on a Normal run who was pleading that members of said team not play Advanced .
... it did not help his case that his toon's name was literally "God" , as it made it too easy to mock him , his parser , his attitude , or his lack of understanding that he was in a mostly premade group that was trying to win with intentionally low DPS ...
Had so much fun showing him my Mk1 white Phaser relay (FTW!) ... .
Here's hoping he fell off his chair .
You are literally a troll who can get away with anything.
Apparently, you havent been doing Elite PvE recently. Since The only thing in your mind is PvE, nor do you have any knowledge of what missions where mobs hit harder than any PvP ability.
Your knowledge of the game is simply outdated , you are a dinosaur who is simply outdated.
But then again this is the only major activity you have in STO, PVP in the forums. Troll those you hate and get away without any ban.
I let you be troll, whiner, dinosaur with your PvPing in STO forums. Because PvP in game is dead.
Comments
Your entire post detailed why you choose to see that versus anything else, to the point where you'll see it even when it's not there.
Umm, I'm referring that one guy who actually does the theorycrafting and in-game testing; I guess you could say everyone else is a dirty exploiter, but that one guy has some skill.
They don't require that you exploit, nor do they segregate you when you don't.
Have you read anything of this thread?
Member? Member of what? I don't know anyone else in this thread. There's no grand conspiracy.
I could have ended my last post the way I started it , namely by saying that there are a lot of good (aka decent) folks on the DPS channels .
I chose not to repeat myself .
As to seeing things that are not there ... , that's funny considering that one of the two posts that I replied to insinuated that I was this and that by mixing my words with other ppls and taking them out of context , and then coming about and calling me a hypocrite and a troll .
... not that I mind being called a troll ... , but I also deal in facts that actually happened ... such as my non-participation by choice in the DPS bashing thread from 2 weeks ago that in the end spawned this "positive spin on the DPS community" thread ...
I am a troll?? LOL. Thats a good one. You better look in the mirror when you talk about trolling and hypocrisy. You even dare to speak of private and optional?? Then why someone's @handle is put on some 3rd party sites, without permission of said person or alot of times even without been aware of that?? Why?? Where is the optional and private concepts here? I dont give a TRIBBLE about your channels, nor do I want to be associated with them, in any form. Get it? I am not enforcing anything on anyone. You ppl are doing that.
And you say no1 is pushing down anyone's throat your channels. But the moment you parse someone, in a PUBLIC channel or PUBLIC queue and you put their @handle on your "innoficial" chart, you just DO that. But of course you ppl cant be bother with that... You do what ever you want without any respect of other ppl or any rules (courtesy and even ToS rules , since you break them without any shame). And then some folks get even 100 hacking attempts a day (not trolling, you can check even here on forums, was a tread about that) or some spam bots pop up with veteran status, no doubt TRIBBLE accounts.
I guess I just can't feel as worked up about it as you do, really. Primarily, like I said, because the few times I've spoken with him, in chat, he actually appeared surprisingly modest and soft-mannered.
And c'mon, who hasn't ever been among equal-leveled people, and made an off the cuff remark about them n00bs who can't even kill the gens fast enough?! Doesn't make em evil people; or condescending, or elitists: just human.
Because there's like 8000000000 different ways to become the target of a hacking attempt, and spam bots don't need a list like this to find you.
Did I call you a troll and forget, or am I just not following this thread closely enough?
Great post, I can't argue with your perspective on most points. Only thing I'll put out there is my perspective on the 'casual' nature of the game.
First off, agreed - STO is largely a casual game, largely by nature of being Star Trek, where the draw of the game is playing around in the Trek universe. But, with Delta Rising and the queue revamp Cryptic did draw some lines in the sand. There are now three levels of content, where each level is geared at a player who has a progressively maximized build by game mechanics - where DPS is the result.
So basically, the line of Normal through to Elite, is casual through to game mechanics masters.
I have absolutely nothing against players who couldn't care less about their DPS. Hey, if a player is having fun running the game the way they want (maybe a canon build, or running some of the more fun weapons and abilities), by all means I hope they have a wicked-fun time.
Case in point, I'm working on an alt that'll be flying the T3 D-7, just for kicks. But, I'll police myself out of running end-game content with that alt, because it's not fair for me to show up with a 'fun' ship amongst players who are going into higher-difficulty queues having put time and effort into their builds.
So with that in mind, where I take issue is where players are taking these builds that - though entirely legitimate and fun in some way - are sub-par as far as the game mechanics are concerned, and are demanding that they be successful in higher difficulty content that requires a stronger build. Hence the high fail rate of pugs. You can't take a 'fun' build into a high-requirement PvE. And far too often, I'll see players running builds in Advanced and Elite PvEs that are absolutely horrid as far as the game mechanics are concerned - again, perfectly legitimate and enjoyable builds in other circumstances, but players can't then expect to perform adequately in content that demands something greater.
So I'm coming at this from the perspective of being tired of players taking builds into Advanced and Elite content that are not properly spec'd for that content. All that serves is to make it very difficult for players who have prepared adequately for the higher-end content to actually succeed at that content - and the players that took the sub-par build into the queue aren't going to get anything out of a fail anyways.
Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with any build that any player runs in the game. But when Cryptic designs content specifically for players who understand and utilize the game mechanics to the fullest extent, players who are not doing so should have a little respect and not ruin the fun for those who are.
Of course, this doesn't in any way excuse when high-DPS players dump their parse results into chat and stomp all over everyone else in the pug... that's trolling, and that's just gotta stop. But on the flip side, players who are not geared for Advanced and Elite content and get up in other players' faces for being 'elitist'... that's trolling too, just from the other side.
As I said a few posts back, I only just started playing Korfez this past month. Prior to that, I knew that my build was not adequate enough to compete at that level. I was fine in Normal and getting better with Advanced, but before February I had to admit to myself that I was just not ready for Elite yet. And I certainly didn't feel it right to ruin the fun for players who are going into Korfez with adequate builds.
That's my two cents, and that's where my current frustration lies with the back-and-forth trolling in pugs. I feel that with the three levels of difficulty in queues, players should recognize where the are in that line and remain there until they truly feel they can perform adequately at the next level. And on the other hand, no one has the right to dump on other players just because that player feels somehow superior, by whatever measure.
So, again I struggle with why are you guys even posting on this thread. We get it, you hate the channels and you won't join. Then why participate in ANY discussion regarding the channel? You see the if you truly didn't care about the channels then you would be indifferent. For example, I know there is a lot of players who enjoy the role playing aspect of this game. I have absolutely no interest in RP nor joining their channel. In fact, I have no opinion regarding RP at all other than I am glad to see that they have a channel and are building a community and wish them all the well. Because I have no interest in RP, I do not go on the thread and "tell" them they are doing it wrong, or they are elitists, or [insert any derogatory term]. I simply am indifferent.
You guys seem to have an inability to heed your own advice. It is like you are on a crusade against dps and the channels. You tell us over and over that you do not want too or will not join the channels and community as a whole, yet you are CONSTANTLY posting in our threads and doing all other sorts of bellyaching. It is okay; we get it. Now it is time for you to become indifferent and go enjoy the game in the style you like to play and leave us to our own devices. Trolling our threads with pointless arguments that fall on deaf ears is a colossal waste of everyone's time.
You're telling everyone to be tolerant of other play styles all-the-while being completely intolerant of ours--hypocrisy at its finest. We have thousands of players in the channels and league. We don't force anyone to participate. It is all optional. By the way, that "scrub" RyanSTO has made and posted hours of video guides to help the new players learn the mechanics of the game. Our builds are online. We freely offer advice and help to any who ask and is willing to listen. What have you done for the community other than sit in the forums and insult those of us who are trying to help? Complaining is the easy path--action is the tough one. And we all know what path you have chosen.
Again, we all know it is impossible for you to not have the last word--and that is okay too. But it is far time for you to move on and become indifferent--this advice will serve you will in life in general.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
I suspect the problem plaguing advanced queues is that too many players erroneously believe that they must run the advanced queues in order to get the gear needed to engage in advanced queues.
I'm not sure what piece or pieces they find mandatory, but I understand that the path to completing rep gears without running advanced queues is not always the clearest one.
A chat channel for damage output captains?
Check here: dps.shivtr.com
or follow link in my signature.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Yeah I never understood the elitist attitude at all.
"I was here from beta"
"I do OP DPS"
"I spend too much money on this game"
All extremely stupid and equally invalid ways of proclaiming superiority over fellow players.
Whatever happened to community and having FUN?
Also I love your signature. Seriously sad how true it is, they even removed random star clusters.
When management decisions THAT stupid start being made, we begin to realize that PWI's execs were all turned into protozoa by Q.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Except that's the view of people looking in without any comprehension of what's actually going on. Just like looking at a spreadsheet of balance data for 400 ships would be completely incomprehensible for most people too. Some would react and say all that data was a total waste of time and that whoever was doing it should do it their way as it's better, even if that way was to use single digits in notepad.
The people who are using parse information correctly aren't using it to stroke anything, it's merely data to be analysed and then used to improve the efficiency of a build. Going for the 200K mark would be cool, but then again it's only cool to those who really want to achieve the highest damage output in the game. Go into any MMO and there will be someone who holds the damage record, but it's only STO where they are truly vilified for their achievements, even if it's within a fictional game world.
If people aren't interested in the DPS channels and can't forgive someone for getting frustrated with others once in a while then why even post in threads pertaining to the DPS League? Either those people secretly do wish they could be a part of the DPS group, or they are unable to move past whatever slight they seem to have taken affront against, which in Aelfwin's case don't seem to involve himself at all.
Seriously why do these few people devolve any discussion into a ******** session about their own ego???
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
The other day a random player popped into the DPSPublic and immediately began to explain that he/she had been out of the game since before Delta Rising and had realized upon return that his/her build was a PvP oriented. And that the build would be insufficient for the current state of the game. Within seconds three of the 30k + Channel members jumped onto DPSPublic and began to discuss the players build with them and the changes they would need to make to improve the build.
This discussion took well over an hour and a half. And through out the entire discussion the three high dpsers were calm and respectful. Even when the newcomer seemed frustrated and a bit uneasy about making certain changes. They simply kept their cool and explained calmly why those changes were needed to improve the build.
This is what I experience daily in regards to DPS Public. There are times where the discussion can become intense between individuals discussing builds with differing tastes. But even in DPSPublic there are people willing to step up and give advice and help those asking for it.
But thats the thing. Putting someone's @handle on a 3rd party site just adds one more way. It weakens security. Cryptic, and allmost every game company, tells you that your acc security is your own responsability. But how can that be valid anymore, when your @handle, and possible your acc ID in STO case, is been broadcast outside the game on another site?
Good example that just proves my point. In your example, any one of the RPs take your @handle, with or without your permission, and post in on a 3rd party site?
Or troll you in chat by belitting you that you may not have a canon ship, canon weapon or stuff like that? Tell me?
And no one stops you for improving your build. You want to parse YOUR data and improve YOUR build? Go ahead. You do that for a friend or someone else, by all means. You get your friends and get toghether in a channel? Kudos to you.
But why you ppl parse public area (channels and queues), gather that data and then post someone's @handle on a 3rd party site without any permission or acknoledgement, hmm? Someone promoted you to Dev status and intrusted you with gathering data and metrics on other players?? Tell me?
I appreciate your POV and your attempt to be reasonable , but due to continuing experience it's simply not my own .
I do my best not to tell a parser to fu%k @ff when at an end of a non-DPS channel related run I get a parsing score in chat from him / her instead of a "gg" , but I can't help but see how this ... this "culture" poisoned the game .
I should not have to make a post requesting to stop getting (seemingly) automated invites a few of the said DPS channels .
(see , after the second or third time , that's called trolling in game)
Nor should I need to mention that posting DPS channels participants @handles on a public website without their knowing & authorization amounts as nothing more than bait for gold sellers .
You're telling me that the "top" ppl have changed ?
I'd like to see some proof , instead of the continued multi-layered idiocy that I'm confronted with .
Are they not responsible for the intent or attitude of every person who posts a parse or has an attitude ?
That's very true .
But like I said , continued experience on multiple levels leaves me unable to change my mind on how certain ppl operate , be that toward players or even Devs .
Still , I am sorry if I insulted in any way folks who who participate in the DPS channels but keep their DPS hobby to themselves .
It's difficult to say negative stuff about said channels without implying that "all are guilty by association" to the channels or certain top operators .
I don't know what lengths you'd need to go to to protect your @handle, but good luck with being a hermit.
I hope you don't mind me cutting out bits of your post, just what I've left there is what I feel is quite poignant. At the end of the day what got on my nerves in the end was the ongoing BS that constantly came out of those channels.
I've had fleet mates complain about being sidelined in the channel because they had a bad run in a channel run before now, and I've lost track of the times that members get irritated because of the rudeness of DPS people in pug groups. On top of that and from my own experience, you also get the seemingly endless supply of presumably the same people who clearly have no true understanding of the game mechanics outside of the DPS ring.
Also, whether the DPS people like it or not, the fact that DPS-centric builds are the only ones that didn't get the rather direct shaft with DR just goes to show how broken the game is right now. Pre-DR you would get the odd occasion where even higher range DPSer's (who clearly didn't have an ego issue) enjoyed the company of the tank or drain ship or whatever and even took the time to thank you for being helpful. Now though taking those builds into most missions is considered "not pulling your weight" and frankly a lot of people don't have the time or the resources to build a completely new ship from scratch, and that is assuming they'd want to in the first place.
The DPS channels I'm sure are a haven for some and as damaging for the game as they clearly have been, either by the fault of their members or the devs incompetence at building the game right, I get that, at least for the non-egoistic ones. But frankly I did give these channels a chance, and honestly my reservations were proved true, and on more points than I've stated.
That's ok , seeing that that does not seem to be the only thing you're struggling with .
No you don't get it .
Better yet , I get it that you're not even trying to understand , as you say by your own words :
Yuppp , that's as far as your understanding (or lack there of) goes .
I made it a point to look up the previous discussion on this topic , as it served a precursor to this "everything is awesome" thread .
21 pages or arguments , and not one post by my humble self .
So you were saying ... ?
I'll post it here for the 10th time for you to read :
If I wasn't parsed or trolled by parsers on a near daily basis (despite not belonging to any of your "spectacular channels") , I would probably live and let live .
What you are asking of me is to be trolled and let go .
Sorry , not happening .
And since it's not you who does the in game trolling , perhaps it's you who should let go ... (or perhaps have a talk with your buddies about why posting ppls @handles on a public web page equals disseminating personal information without the knowledge or agreement of the participants of your channels) .
Aaand here we get to the point where one of you starts to tell others what to do .
Here , let me follow your own example here :
Why don't you and your lot behave like the RP-ers (that you brought up as an example) , and not make a single DPS related post or video on these forums .
Be just like the RP-ers .
Be happy in your channels , and don't post a single parse outside of those channels ingame, or outside of your web page .
That way , I won't see you , nor will I experience your toxic influence ingame .
Like this advice so far ?
I bet you're gonna do exactly like I asked , right ?
Right ?
... right ... :rolleyes:
You can still bring in support ships including tank. Except that having a tank means you need to be in a premade.
There is a big difference between bringing a tank on a Pug and bringing a tank in premade. In a Pug you dont know what the others are bringing. What happens now if everyone brings a tank? or everyone brings a support ship?
There is also a matter of level of difference build and skill. You can bring a support nannie recluse with no tac console whatsoever in a PuG and made for premades. And that recluse will most of the time outdps, outtank, and out heal every PuG. Thats how aweful the level of quality PuGs have become.
Tanks and support ships are still viable except that those who knows how to use and build one for optimal PvE are also in the DPS league. You need a lot of organization and communication just to make those kind of ships work. PuGs are anything but organized nor open to communication.
Wow , you managed to make it into the second sentence before starting to tell ppl what to do .
Should I be impressed ?
Best guess ?
You will not be Charlie Sheen .
My condolences ... .
Or not .
In the land of PVP maybe ... . :rolleyes:
If it helps , the above horse manure sounds very much like a dude from last week on a Normal run who was pleading that members of said team not play Advanced .
... it did not help his case that his toon's name was literally "God" , as it made it too easy to mock him , his parser , his attitude , or his lack of understanding that he was in a mostly premade group that was trying to win with intentionally low DPS ...
Had so much fun showing him my Mk1 white Phaser relay (FTW!) ... .
Here's hoping he fell off his chair .
You are literally a troll who can get away with anything.
Apparently, you havent been doing Elite PvE recently. Since The only thing in your mind is PvE, nor do you have any knowledge of what missions where mobs hit harder than any PvP ability.
Your knowledge of the game is simply outdated , you are a dinosaur who is simply outdated.
But then again this is the only major activity you have in STO, PVP in the forums. Troll those you hate and get away without any ban.
I let you be troll, whiner, dinosaur with your PvPing in STO forums. Because PvP in game is dead.
Yeah...about that...
I did not need ANY of you in the first five years I have played this game.
I sure as hell will never need any of you in the following years of this game!
G.F.Y. don't mean 'good for you'!!