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Ionic Turbulence Change: Bad.
wrathofachilles
Member Posts: 937 Arc User
Patch notes:
Altered the power's activation sequence so that it now travels to the target's current location, instead of tracking them.
In other words, the projectile can now be avoided if the player moves quickly enough.
This seems to have been implemented for the pvpers, which I used to be, but grew bored of the flavor of the month unbalanced console/first to fire wins mechanics. But I do recall that speed tanks are already uber what with their nigh invulnerability to torpedoes which don't travel fast enough to catch them and eventually "fizzle." (kinetic weapons already being sorely neglected). And their ability to enter and exit combat at their leisure. Speed tanks do not also need to be pretty much guaranteed to never be hit by this ability which is intended to TRIBBLE up mobility, lol. Make it cleanse-able by something like hazards? perhaps. hazards clears most anything anyway. Make it pretty much only affect slow ships that are screwed on mobility anyway? lol. No.
As I said, I'm not presently engaged in the pvp portion of the game, but if I ever do go back into it, I don't want this skill to be useless on those it should arguably be meant to counter in pvp.
Additionally, the patch notes state that the lockout on being thrown for a loop by this ability wasn't functioning properly, so before fixing the lockout and letting players live with that and see if they still want to cry about it, we fix the lockout AND neuter the skills' ability to hit them in the first place? Way to double swing that nerf hammer.
As for PVE, it remains to be seen, but some times those squirrely little borg spheres randomly decide to hit the throttle and will likely be missed by this ability entirely, though i imagine this will be a terrible change even for the slow moving probes in khitomer if one simply fires the skill from a distance. So why is this skill ranged at all if one only fires it to miss? Taking the tracking off of this is just... yeah... an ability I had JUST started using, as in day of this post started using, one of the few truly useful intel powers is about to get kicked in the nethers and this disappoints me.
Bad change for PVP, bad change for PVE.
Altered the power's activation sequence so that it now travels to the target's current location, instead of tracking them.
In other words, the projectile can now be avoided if the player moves quickly enough.
This seems to have been implemented for the pvpers, which I used to be, but grew bored of the flavor of the month unbalanced console/first to fire wins mechanics. But I do recall that speed tanks are already uber what with their nigh invulnerability to torpedoes which don't travel fast enough to catch them and eventually "fizzle." (kinetic weapons already being sorely neglected). And their ability to enter and exit combat at their leisure. Speed tanks do not also need to be pretty much guaranteed to never be hit by this ability which is intended to TRIBBLE up mobility, lol. Make it cleanse-able by something like hazards? perhaps. hazards clears most anything anyway. Make it pretty much only affect slow ships that are screwed on mobility anyway? lol. No.
As I said, I'm not presently engaged in the pvp portion of the game, but if I ever do go back into it, I don't want this skill to be useless on those it should arguably be meant to counter in pvp.
Additionally, the patch notes state that the lockout on being thrown for a loop by this ability wasn't functioning properly, so before fixing the lockout and letting players live with that and see if they still want to cry about it, we fix the lockout AND neuter the skills' ability to hit them in the first place? Way to double swing that nerf hammer.
As for PVE, it remains to be seen, but some times those squirrely little borg spheres randomly decide to hit the throttle and will likely be missed by this ability entirely, though i imagine this will be a terrible change even for the slow moving probes in khitomer if one simply fires the skill from a distance. So why is this skill ranged at all if one only fires it to miss? Taking the tracking off of this is just... yeah... an ability I had JUST started using, as in day of this post started using, one of the few truly useful intel powers is about to get kicked in the nethers and this disappoints me.
Bad change for PVP, bad change for PVE.
Post edited by wrathofachilles on
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normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
The ionic turbulence bolt travels quite slowly, I believe about the same pace as a torpedo... which means most ships in pvp (probably pve too) won't be hit by it unless they accidentally fly into an active instance of it. At least torpedoes track at their painfully slow pace, this bolt is going to fly to where ships WERE and then make a cloud of "oops, missed." Nowadays it seems everyone and their grandma has emergency power to engines on... at least that was my experience last I checked in to pvp. And a number of npcs seem to have become fond of the skill as well.
Lol... there's no "thought" involved in an ability that is almost guaranteed to miss all but stationary targets. It's not even got the "down wind" mechanic of eject warp plasma, whether you fire it at someone behind, in front, to the side, it's going to have a painful torp travel time and NOT track. As stated before, speed tanks don't even take tracking torp hits, they most assuredly shall never take a unguided ionic turbulence hit. And, as stated, the ability is likely useless now at any any range but point blank due to travel times and NPC movements, which eliminates the whole point of it being ranged.
*edit* on second thought, if launched at an enemy pursuing you, you may well clip them in the face if they can't move out of the way fast enough... so it's possibly another warp plasma type skill you can only effectively fire at things behind you... cause we totally needed another skill like that.
*edit edit* actually, I realized the ability detonates at the target's coordinates at time of cast... so nope, doesn't even clip them in the face en route, so still useless.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
You realize that the players you're complaining about being able to avoid it were the players most likely avoiding it anyway, right? There might have been the one roll to disable...but they were already out of the AoE and on their way. Those that were caught in it were likely caught in it from Load Viral Torp disabling them first or somebody using the Fed/Rom Lance and the full stack of Gather Intel allowing for the Sci Disable option.
As has been stated before, outside of a targetable torpedo that is destroyed before the system registers the hit - any torpedo that hits will hit, regardless of what the visual FX show. So folks cannot outrun a torpedo that has hit...well, technically they could avoid a targetable torp if they started to run away as soon as it was launched and kept on running - so that its timer expired before the system registered a hit...but guess what you've done to that person? You've removed them from combat...might as well have blown them up, yeah? Think about that, pretty awesome, eh?
You talk about range, as if it's just a bunch of gnats flying around randomly in a strong wind and nobody will be where they were the second before...folks are going to want to be in range, and on certain arcs of targets...so you can place the hazard there, yeah? You can get somebody to chase you and fly them right back into that hazard, yeah?
As for NPCs, yeah, somebody drops out the Grav Well, somebody drops out the Tyken's, and one of them or somebody else drops out the Ionic.
There are countless things one can do to make some evil use of the ability...but yeah, they're going to require more than just putting it on the spacebar.
Well maybe not, cause odds are there are players just like that on the other side...so maybe it can stay on the spacebar as they fight each other...drooling a bit as they fly around in circles.
Oh yeah... combine it with an ability that must already be effectively crowd controlling the enemy so it can hit... and extra super crowd control them... Dunno why I didn't think of that. -.-
In pvp, that tactic would be useless because gravity well and the like are generally shrugged off. And sure.. cc and anything non-damage needs to be super situational and require heaps of coordination so most can just choose DPS for the win as usual.
In pve, if the enemy is already effectively crowd controlled, one generally doesn't need to double up on that. Can one potentially extend the controlling of a crowd say when grav well ends by catching them in ionic turbulence before they have a chance to leave? Perhaps they might, but there we go back to making non-DPS super situational and prone to failure where DPS is pretty much fool proof.
I'm not following you, man. All you have to do is watch buffs. APO = subnuke + tractorbeam then have your way with the target. Intel ships make it even easier because one can double nuke. APO-> subnuke , Aux2Damp -> subnuke wave. Then you're free to GW or TB or TBR or whatever. Then throw in ionic + EMP probe. Both of those will knock off evasives. This change is way better than what it is now and I doubt you'll find many, if any one else who will agree with you.
As for PvE? Nothing moves fast enough for it to be a problem and everyone uses it for the -DR anyway.
You realize that I don't bother with PVP anymore right? So I'm not even really discussing that aspect out of it with personal interests at stake except with the possibility I might one day delve back into that cluster frack... though that day would likely come when they finally balance that TRIBBLE out so... no time soon.
The fact that this skill is being utterly neutered even against TRIBBLE NPC's derping around in space with their new found heaps of HP is what makes this change absolutely a terrible idea.
Actually no, I don't find it awesome when you run someone out of combat, because those people generally come straight back to wreck your day so... nothing says "I win" like explosions.
It's possible you are correct about normal torps registering their hits even if the FX don't show it, it's possible torps generally do such TRIBBLE damage to shields that one doesn't see that register either on a speed tank, though I'm pretty sure I've seen normal plasma torps not set them on fire, but then it's been a while since I've bothered with that whole thing.
Things move in the game, CONSTANTLY unless they are a stationary object. Even as you fire the ionic turbulence pulse at someone, you shall likely be doing so... guess what? While in motion. *gasp* so what is going to happen as they chase you? You move... they move... :O OH NO! motion! ionic turbulence has been thwarted by them not standing utterly still, DAMN! I didn't see that coming... no wait... I did. And how likely is one to fly them back into it? lol... about as likely as them chasing you into warp plasma. Any ship that doesn't have the turn rate of a brick on a turtle's back will avoid the hazard, and any ship with said turn rate isn't likely to be changing course to go back into a hazard anyway if they avoided it in the first place.
It hasn't been shaking cubes or donatra for me or anything like that. The crystalline entity still dances, but I don't think that's related... it just does that cause it's happy or something.
I use Ionic in STFs, and not for control. I use it for the damage resistance debuff, boosting everyone's damage including my own and my Gravity well, which helps because tyken's shares a CD with GW and thus can't be used consecutively. The disables are just a bonus.
+1000 points for Cryptic
Lame, I have to rely on shooting weapons to actually kill stuff! Now I have no chance! All my ship builds are obsolete!
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Like I said in the other post and considering the issue some folks are having with the Tachyon Beam, eh? GW/Tykens/Ionic...guess what happens...and does Ionic no longer tracking get changed in that in the least?
Folks dropping it out on the Entity in CCA for the AoE debuff on everything...er...already caught in a GW...where does that change?
Ever R-TBR'd a group of mobs into some EWP and then dropped out the Ionic? That's changed how?
Cause honestly, I'm just trying to find the complaint for PvE and not seeing it. I'm not picturing any NPCs that move like a player does. And as far as needing to be within a certain range if one felt more comfortable with that, aren't folks already doing that so they're not eating the massive range penalty that would be killing their energy damage otherwise?
If it's a team queue, imho, folks should try to work together a wee bit...rather than just Kirking it with their spacebars while trying to pretend nobody else is there with them.
Yea... I've been on that end of the schtick. Chain disabled to death.
Nothing like the total inability to do anything to defend yourself...
At least now there's a chance to evade it.
Who says you HAVE to launch it at 10k? Now you gotta think strategy and not just "Fire and Forget".
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Ionic turbulence is effective for particle gen builds. For those, firing weapons is more of a courtesy than a requirement, save for carpet-bombing a trapped target with Neutronics or Emission torps.
Your proposed tactic involves me flying sci... which I don't. I've invested far too much into my tac to grind that TRIBBLE all out again on my sci or any other char, so until the devs ease up on the whole "multiple characters=no life for you" game design philosophy, that's not going to happen. Oh... and remedy that whole "or you could just do most everything sci does better as tac anyway" thing.
Provided one is flying sci and knocks some speed buffs off with subnuke, that's not going to stop them pulling a Fox McCloud and doing a barrel roll right out of it or using evasives. Is EMP probe's disable not countered by aux to dampers like other disables? Does ionic turbulence grip one so firmly by the short hairs as to not allow the barrel roll or augmented evasives to escape?
Regardless of all this, It's just another skill being uber neutered in PVE because it wasn't balanced properly and separately for PVP and or the game isn't balanced so that PVE/PVP are interchangeable. As the devs have said, the vast majority of the playerbase are not PVPers, and to make game mechanics changes that neuter the ability for the majority of the game only because it's ridiculous in PVP is silly. I'm not saying to ignore PVP's concerns cause that TRIBBLE needs work. I can't wait for the season of fixing PVP, but there needs to be a way to fix it without ruining it for the game at large, which clearly there ARE ways since they have separate lockout timers for players and for NPC. Additionally, it is silly to be modifying the skill to function differently when the safeguards in place to make it not OP in PVP weren't even functioning properly. That's like the devs saying "Hey, the crew mechanic is stupid, it doesn't work as intended, we're thinking of pulling it entirely." To which many if not most players respond "Dur... or just fix it instead of being lazy." Here we have "hey, we bothered fixing it... but we're going to double fix it so it's actually super hard to use and mostly misses... kay?" Lol...
I enjoy it for the damage debuff too, however that requires hitting things with it, and this change, I anticipate, shall make that bit incredibly difficult for anything other than nigh stationary objects.
As you refer to it as a "cheese" skill, I'm assuming you're a PVPer who was pissed at being on the receiving end of an ability that's way OP in PVP while being a reasonable skill in PVE. Does this mean the skill is a mistake and should be removed/neutered? No, it means it's a skill that needed adjustment in how it affected players. Also, it was meant to not have such a terrible effect on players, but that failsafe wasn't functioning... yet they have *double* fixed it into near uselessness instead of JUST fixing it. Why cheer for double stupidity?
Given that I set out to build all my characters ships as different as I can make them from each other and deliberately avoid cookie-cutter FAW builds, you're actually not too far off. I mean if APB can debuff a large group of targets every 30 seconds and never miss, why not IT? Whats so bad about wanting some variety or consistency exactly?
Wait... we actually got a "killing with anything but weapons is WRONG" person in the thread? I feel like I'm seeing a unicorn... a purist unicorn who thinks pretty much all the "space magic" of STO is an affront to REAL star trek and should be axed post haste.
I'm not pretending it wont' have situational useage, I just think it's ridiculous to put this baby in a corner and make it EVEN MORE situational so as I might as well drop it for something that's not going to require super micro management/coordination for success. I plan my parties. I pug, and that should be a perfectly valid choice that doesn't get me screwed most of the time.
Do I eject warp plasma to drop a turbulence? lol. No. Eject warp plasma would be ready to go again by the time the first one expires, so I may as well just reapply and save that ability slot for something else rather than a pointless double tap.
You seem to be speaking from the perspective of one who doesn't pug or intends to always fly a science/eng heavy ship that can load up on all the crowd control EVER so that one can force ionic turbulence to not be entirely useless... both of those perspectives I dare say do not represent the majority of the player base.
I'm not some know-it-all uber player; I'm just a goofball that flies around in circles and sometimes gets stuck in Transformers (maybe I've watched the Firm's Star Trekkin' too much - I'm always boldly going forward and I can't find reverse).
So yeah, I'm going to bow out of this discussion...
...cause otherwise I'd respond to this and get banned.
Have fun, all...
Indeed, I can fire it point blank which makes it super situational and also possibly pointless as any number of other skills might be more effective at that range.
I'm not saying that the chained disable to death thing was working fine and dandy, the patch notes themselves say that the lockout mechanic intended to prevent abuse WAS NOT WORKING. The players aren't even being afforded the opportunity to play with the ability as it was intended to function before it is getting cut off at the knees for how it was abuseable when NOT WORKING AS INTENDED.
You not only have a chance to evade it, you're damn near guaranteed to never be touched by it again. And I agree, it is super lame to not be able to do anything, thats why no mechanic like that should ever make it into the game proper... I remember the original "into darkness" console... lol. same pig different prom dress. The devs love throwing things into the game that maybe work okay in PVE but WRECK PVP, it's what they do. I just don't think we should be overcompensating for that tendency by destroying this skill before it's even been experienced by players working the way it's supposed to.
Actually the fix is exactly what ONLY PVPers have been asking for. I have not seen anything anywhere about PVEers being like "Hey, this skill actually hits the target, could you make it miss more? like... WAY more please? Thanks." And, AGAIN, the vast majority of the player base are not PVPers, so TRIBBLE the larger game for poor implementation on the PVP side is ridiculous. And... AGAIN, it was not even working the way it was supposed to on the PVP side so... lol.
If you enjoy the damage debuff, then obviously you have other means of control first.
What dink uses Ionic Turbulence for debuffs without other CC like EWP or particle emission clouds?
If it can't miss stationary targets, make the targets stationary first.
I don't so much get stuck on transformers as in the gate's lacy bits when I'm trying to feel cool by zipping around it all attack pattern-like rather than sitting slightly over 7km off the side where it eventually gives up trying to hit me and targets something in range.
I don't feel you were "aggro," at least not until you suggested the only way you could respond to my last post was in a manner that would get you banned. It just seemed that all your suggestions for keeping ionic turbulence functional seem to rely on not-pugging or only taking it on a pure ultimate crowd control ship... which, again, one generally won't be safe pugging in... specialty roles like pure CC never have the luxury of just "slipping in and working awesome" like one can pretty much do with "just insert DPS here." Can CC ship end up saving the day from a bunch of TRIBBLE pugs? Yes indeedy it can... can it also find itself in a group of pugs that lack the damage to meet a critical fail time non-optional? Murphy's law says: "High probability of definitely."
Frankly, I think the biggest failure here... aside from cryptic not implementing it in the game correctly THE FIRST TIME (which we know is pretty much impossible given the track record) is that the players have never been given the opportunity to play with the ability as intended before it has been over corrected into uselessness/a super situational skill. And it's unfortunate that so many players seem to gloss right over that or simply don't care because they are soooo peeved from being on the receiving end of the broken skill that they would just as soon see the skill stripped from the game as stripped of any reasonable functionality over having the skill actually fixed.