I know where tho OP is comming from, but considering the resource sink that fleets are I wonder if stf's are designed to be done socially, and not just in a que where you might be paired with hapless casuals.
It is unfortunate that the days of being able to que with randoms and have a reasonable shot at victory are gone, I rather enjoyed it, especially if I could carry a whole team through it which was totally possible if I had at least one person on the team who wanst completely useless. Now it only takes a single fool to ruin the game for 4 other people regardless of how good they are.
I suspect these days will return, but only when the lowest common denominator of the game's population reaches the power levels required to steamroll content.
That's exactly how I feel about the mouthbreathers who expect to always be carried, and whine about how you can't tell them how to play.
The only difference between the two groups is that one is actively working to better themselves, and it ain't the casuals.
As I told the OP back when... I can do 20k on my science ship, not the greatest, but not bad... and I'm most certainly a casual player, with only a couple hours a week online due to something called real life. So before you start generalizing and stating that all casuals don't want to better themselves... in a game for all things that literally doesn't matter... maybe you should think.
You realize this is a game, right? The point of a game is to have fun. This isn't an organized tournament. There's no prizes here. There's no high score list. There's not even an end. At no point do you see "The End, you win!". In 5 years nobody is going to go "Hey, remember him. He did 200k DPS in ISA. He was a god among men.". Seriously, stop being a self righteous *******.
I don't know where you're reading all this from what I said.
Actually, I think you're completely projecting some other anger onto my post.
I don't advocate verbally abusing players. I've even said as much in the thread.
While I agree, in principal, that people should exercise some judgement before joining a mission marked as "Advanced" or "Elite", some people enjoy a challenge even if it means losing.
Then let them go into private games.
You know full well the average PUG isn't expecting to lose, or at least doesn't want to have the expectation to lose.
Reaching for a greater challenge is fantastic, but by doing it in a PUG you're negatively impacting four people totally unaware of this fact.
Problem is who makes these options mate. The idea per se is good.
However give a man a fish and he'll eat for the daty, teach him how to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life. A more effective way would be to actually make them understand what x item and y ability do and provide samples to start with.
These samples should include Mk XI rare items (common mk X is too low), global retrain of existing boffs to include the powers needed for the ship, a set of common doffs to start with.
And telling people they shouldn't play aspects of a game because you don't like how they play it isn't? The game promises you will need higher quality players to successfully complete the mission. It does not promise you will always successfully complete the mission nor does it promise you will only play with higher quality players. If you want more than that, it's on you to find people who meet your standards not the masses go out of their way to avoid you.
Not to mention, you aren't going to know you're the weak link until you're in a position that link breaks. If you're having no problem pugging normals then switch to advanced and those fail, would you automatically assume you're the problem?
Hints, tips, and tricks, tutorials and understandable guides (I still like that Foundry idea) for the more complex mechanics of the game ('cause the existing tutorial doesn't tell you Jack Squat and only experience prepares you for STFs, I agree) would be helpful...for those that will accept it.
Just going to drop this in: The problem with the Foundry idea is that a lot of the things STFs call for you to do are either difficult or literally impossible to simulate with the current toolset. Like, "Azure Nebula Rescue" is mechanically doable but we don't have the assets, and we don't have any way of setting a stationary object like an ISE generator as a destructible object. The editor is pretty basic and hasn't had new capabilities added in forever.
So, you want that to happen, you're going to have to help us beg Cryptic for better tools.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Just going to drop this in: The problem with the Foundry idea is that a lot of the things STFs call for you to do are either difficult or literally impossible to simulate with the current toolset. Like, "Azure Nebula Rescue" is mechanically doable but we don't have the assets, and we don't have any way of setting a stationary object like an ISE generator as a destructible object. The editor is pretty basic and hasn't had new capabilities added in forever.
So, you want that to happen, you're going to have to help us beg Cryptic for better tools.
I wasn't referring to a player-made version of current STFs. That would be impossible or at least ineffective. I was referring to tutorials for, say, "advanced mechanics", or more simply "What does this button do?", something along the lines of an earlier series of "helpful hints" about what power levels do for you and benefits of movement over parking and what do the skills/consoles/BOff abilities do in X situation and what's the difference between tanking, DPSing, support, healing, etc. Things the tutorial at the start do not cover. But the Foundry could translate that helpful advice in real-time practical forms without jeopardizing someone's live STF and without all the confusing math and equations.
Most people would understand "Put your power to half and shoot this target. Now put your power to full and shoot the next target. See the difference?" in a practical demonstration (without the condescension and frustration).
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
And telling people they shouldn't play aspects of a game because you don't like how they play it isn't?
Actually, no. This is an MMO: you're supposed to be on a team, not just playing solo. At least not entirely. Mind you, I don't care at all about PUG-ers pulling in low numbers in... a PUG (I usually just peruse the PUGS a bit for lolz). Nevertheless, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask of people that they consider the team too.
Usually things go awry when people ask, yea demand even, that ppl consider the team. Then they all get defensive. And maybe justly so. Those peeps, however, could also simply be considerate, of their own accord, and not join a PUG level they know they're not really ready for.
Just sayin'.
P.S. Remember, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME WHEN YOU'RE PART OF THE TEAM! Lego wisdom at its finest. :P
And this is why people struggle. Because no one is willing to give friendly advice. Its all "You suck! GTFO N00B!".
Noobs can be obnoxious too. When I was still one (some might say I still am, LOL), I was flying my brand new Orb Weaver, and did like 1k (or at least I hope I did). At the end of the mission someone mentioned to me I was just flying 'normally,' and still had a lot to learn. I gave him a real smart-alecky reply, like 'Well, how do you expect me to fly, abnormally?!' Of course I took his words to heart, after all, and discovered a wonderful new world of doffs and cycled abilities.
Let's help them by making the game less terrible. What I mean is this. The difference between mk X, XI and XII, wasn't that big. The difference between mk XII and XIV is considerable.
Now I am a player that has no level 60 and still have characters with mk XI stuff. In all the content I play I am doing fine. I do not touch advanced or elite level, because, I think, it is not my playing ground. Most likely I am very far from getting mk XIV and there is game content I will never use.
People may see, you don't need high level gear, if you don't play high level content, but that is not wholly thrue. We all need it some way or another, because a lot of players want to belong to the top and will join high level content, yet undergeared. It is frustrating for them and frustrating for the ones that have the adequate gear.
The game should not drive the player base apart, widen the level playing field. The difficulty of the mission should not be the number of hitpoints you have to eat and the time it will take you. You should be able to outsmart on opponent, not just outgun him.
I can give an idea. In this game we use weapons with firing arcs. In real combat we would immediately think of and use formations. Have you ever seen such a thing in this game? No, is it a combat game? No.
And this is why people struggle. Because no one is willing to give friendly advice. Its all "You suck! GTFO N00B!"
And I am not a troll just because I do around 7k consistantly with my Guardian. Excuse me for not upgrading from mk XII purple phasers. It may not be a DPS beast, but its consistant, and isn't a cookie cutter build that doesn't fit my playstyle.
That's bs...I've tried to help players a dozen or so times, but players aren't very receptive to changing their terribad builds even if you've proven to know what your talking about. Generally the conversation devolves into the player defending said terribad build.
Even in pvp after I repeatedly send them to respawn over and over again and they specifically ask about my build they still won't listen to my suggestions to improve their ships.
Actually, no. This is an MMO: you're supposed to be on a team, not just playing solo. At least not entirely. Mind you, I don't care at all about PUG-ers pulling in low numbers in... a PUG (I usually just peruse the PUGS a bit for lolz). Nevertheless, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask of people that they consider the team too.
Usually things go awry when people ask, yea demand even, that ppl consider the team. Then they all get defensive. And maybe justly so. Those peeps, however, could also simply be considerate, of their own accord, and not join a PUG level they know they're not really ready for.
Just sayin'.
P.S. Remember, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME WHEN YOU'RE PART OF THE TEAM! Lego wisdom at its finest. :P
Great saying. Ideed its a team game, thats why I love ground. That part hasnt been plagued (yet) by the DPS curse, altho recent changes on grounds start to suggest otherwise. The thing is, it matters what you do as a team member. For example, I gladly took down from my kit ambush and a grenade to replace them with a doffed overwatch and a rebought motivation, to support the team in bug hunt. I didnt cared if my DPS went down becouse the replacements suport the team and help better at completing the mission.
But the problem is Cryptic has turned the space combat game in a single player game via huge HP lvls (played like 7 years Lineage2 and never seen in an update an increase of even ten times fold of hp lvls) and very harsh times and conditions. Like god forbid to slot an Extend shield skill or even a EPtS becouse it will hurt my DPS. Must use EPtW or you are a noob:rolleyes: Same goes for using a console or console sets. Ppl react badly if someone uses a thalaron pulse Or heal/wants to play a healer role. This is the first MMO where I've seen this: a player to be belittle for healing. This sole thing just shows how bad Cryptic ruined this game.
That's bs...I've tried to help players a dozen or so times, but players aren't very receptive to changing their terribad builds even if you've proven to know what your talking about. Generally the conversation devolves into the player defending said terribad build.
But thats the problem... You are the bad player and have a terribad build.
Let me explain with an example of my own. Around Season 5 I start to do STFs. With a ship build by me but following general rules. Had a nice Souverreign class ship (assault cruiser), with 2 phasers beams, a quantum and a photo torp front and 2 phasers, a photon and a tricobalt aft. Phasers tac consoles and as skills TT, BFAW1 and HY 2 as offensive skills and lots an heal skills: extend shield, aux to sif, HE and TSS. Had alot of fun in solo content with it, with trics criting for 40k (werent nerfed back then) so I brought it an STFs. In the very first STF, there were 2 guys with 2 escorts (was EScort Online back then), who would just "hug" the enemies most of the times to make the most of the cannons. And... my hy trics killed them a few times. Had alot fo bad words changing between me and them and ended with them been put on the ignore list. You see, from my point of view I had nothinf wrong: ship was build accordingly with some general rules, was canon (its a Star Trek game after all not a DPS Numbers Online game, altho sadly Cryptic doesnt seem to care) and I had fun with it so those players were idiots who provided a very bad and unfun game enviroment/attituide. From the 2 escort pilots point of view I was a dead weight (cruisers were considered like that becouse no sof cap and no cruiser commands), with a terribad build and who trolled them becouse they wanted to finish the STF as fast as posible. That was their fun, wich btw I didnt had anything againts. Now aswell. What ever floats your boat.
Fortunely, pre-DR, both points of view didnt matter becouse using both playstyles one could finish the missions.
But sadly, post-DR, its not the case anymore. Cetain playstyles are been enforced on players, wich are mistaken alot for bad players. Dont blame the players, blame Cryptic for TRIBBLE up the game.
/channel_join DPS-public
THEN ask for some help to make 10.000 Damage Per Second in an Infected Space Advanced game.
Join DPS-10.000 , ask for advice to make 30k.
Start winning Elite Games. Don't join DPS channels for 10k as a lot of noobs and ******* are in there unfortunately but go for 30k that is a more than a decent channel.
You are welcome.
Also I dont want to hear complains about only tacs being good with numbers. We have engineers and scientists who can do more than 50k dps.
Why are the default loadouts for ships so trash? Ever notice most of the bad builds tend to stick with the same terrible weapon setups? I wonder why.
Why are so many consoles worthless? Why is crew still in the game? Yes I know what it does, and it is broken beyond belief.
The game is not hard. Making a good build is not at all difficult. But it is extremely unintuitive and the game contentiously teaches and then reinforces bad builds.
And while we could all just wish the average player was a bit better at figuring things out realistically if that ever happened I'm pretty sure that would cost Cryptic a ton of money in lost sales.
Please just sell ships with Hard fixed weapons and consoles. Develop a system to let people upgrade them a bit if you want to try to make some extra cash.
BUT Stop giving people options.
Cause when you give them options they start thinking the stupidest things you can imagine are good ideas for there ship builds.
I am sick of popping in now and then to play this game and realizing that a quick PvE Que is a no go because the average player in this game is beyond help.
Just spoon feed them please. There is no excuse for ships doing under 10k DPS anymore. The only conclusion is that players doing under that are Trolls / RPers that might as well be trolls... or just not intelligent enough to realize the game design is DPS DPS DPS....
Some stuff just won't work folks... One of each weapon type... Torp/Beam/Single Canon/Torp... ect ect.
Just sell them preset STF Approved ships... they need it.
EDIT:
I won't go and change my initial some what flippant OP. I will simply edit this as some have suggested to say. Yes I was a bit of a jerk in the above. I still feel I had a point... we have had some good conversation over 20+ pages now. Before you respond with a Die in a fire OP... read though at least some of the conversation. Some good ideas to help with ALL our our que issues have come up in the following pages. Thanks.
And this is why people struggle. Because no one is willing to give friendly advice. Its all "You suck! GTFO N00B!"
And I am not a troll just because I do around 7k consistantly with my Guardian. Excuse me for not upgrading from mk XII purple phasers. It may not be a DPS beast, but its consistant, and isn't a cookie cutter build that doesn't fit my playstyle.
^^^^This! Read the part in red. I bet the OP never bothers to do this. So in a way, his problems running STF's are of his own making... Well, not just him. I would point to any player with a similar attitude.
Yes well it does get a little boring being forced to play in 40k+ ships to carry the team all the time.
I guess at least its easier then ever to swap ships.
Perhaps what is really to blame is Cryptic terrible STF design where harder simply means more ships or more HP. DPS DPS DPS... perhaps I shouldn't blame players for not adapting... Cryptic is to blame as usual.
OMG! The OP just admitted to being wrong! :eek: A certain under-world must have frozen over recently!
There is no approved standard of shipbuilding for this game, so how the hell are you (or indeed the devs) supposed to put together a set of pre-built ships for all these noobs and RP'ers?
How are you supposed to work out what is ok for PVE queues and what isn't? Some people like flying with beams, other like cannons, some like torps only. A lot of people like to play with canon faction builds. Others prefer to run science builds that do barely any DPS but will shut down or pin down half the map.
The real key to getting people better is helping them find that sweet spot where they can confidently fly their chosen ship build and be effective. And being effective is not just DPS! You can be effective in a CC or drain build or a shield stripper, or a healer.
Hell even the new command ships are going to be about a lot more than just DPS, they can debuff enemies and help the entire team, regardless of what their DPS output is.
If a player gets a build style they like and they can get it running so it helps out the team in an STF then who are we to tell them they are doing it wrong. As long as they are not hindering the team and their style of play is actually doing some thing useful then they should be free to play as they wish.
My Pathfinder can hoover up everything inside of 10km into a grav well and hold them there. It does probably only 8-10K DPS on a really good day but it is highly effective and controlling the enemy and stops many PVE queues from failing. I can hold an ISA together whilst everyone else kills the main targets. I know other need to carry the mission in regards to DPS on targets but without my massive grav well to keep the nanites busy who else would save the mission from certain failure?
Of course the game & mission design is to blame in many respects.
1) There is no guidance for what builds and combinations don't work well. New players need to fail to learn but with no feedback as to why their Mk XIV DHC's are not killing things from 9km away because of range drop-off how are they to know any better? Where does is actually tell you not to slot 5 torps fwd because of overlapping CD's? Where does it tell you how power level drain will kill your damage output? Where does it tell you what boff powers will set off a CD on other powers?
2) There is no pre-combat time to discuss things in missions. Yes in a premade you can chat before you start but in a pug before you can even say hello someone will be off trying for a speed-run and will ruin any chance of discussing tactics or how the mission works.
3) DPS always gets brought into things but there is no way to measure it without 3rd party software...meaning for most players it is something they may never know about.
4) Sticking a tonne of HPs onto the NPCs or minimal timers doesn't help at all. It just forces the players into high DPS builds. This means when a newbie come along they look rubbish compared to those who know what is required. But how is a newbie t get better unless they can succeed in advanced missions to get rep gear of rewards ot buy better gear.
Your new around here aren't you ? I almost always admit when I'm wrong.
he does admit when he is wrong we have had many a debate around here been a long while mainly because sci has been gaining the ground it needs to be on par with the rest of the pack(thank god!)
so look all the people that join in and focus on SPHERES(not the nanite spheres) in Infected before transformer or folks who ignore probes in khitomer or ignore protecting kang they are the problem.
its not hard to get enough dps to at least carry your own weight and i see alot of people doing so.only rarly do i see someone doing less then 1.5k and usualy folks are doing 2k-5k.
I suggest maybe we need to start linking "bad players" to guides on how to actualy do the mission objectives and if they are doing less then 5k dps push them in the direction of some of our basic build guides to get them a general idea what they are expected to be doing.
i always tell folks to go to the reddit sto builds page so with that new players beware if i see you not atleast trying i will indeed mark your name down in my black book of annoyance :P
See, (and this is no appeal to authority or the like, it's just my experience), I've been playing MMOs since UO back in '97. How have I seen most folks make acquaintances and the like during that time? Doing content.
Most games I have played were no were near as instanced as this game is. So folks would come across people while out in the game world doing stuff...if they were working toward doing the same thing or the like, they might formally or informally party up. If they had a good time running an instance with folks, they might ask about friend requests and the like. People met people by playing the game...that's my experience.
When I started STO, although there is no world - it was a case of running into folks in various queues. So yep, met folks either in PvE or PvP queues.
So then, in looking at STO now...all the dead public queues while the private queues are thriving...
STO has become the most anti-social game I've ever played with all the focus on single-player activities or small cliques.
Please just sell ships with Hard fixed weapons and consoles. Develop a system to let people upgrade them a bit if you want to try to make some extra cash.
BUT Stop giving people options.
Cause when you give them options they start thinking the stupidest things you can imagine are good ideas for there ship builds.
I am sick of popping in now and then to play this game and realizing that a quick PvE Que is a no go because the average player in this game is beyond help.
Just spoon feed them please. There is no excuse for ships doing under 10k DPS anymore. The only conclusion is that players doing under that are Trolls / RPers that might as well be trolls... or just not intelligent enough to realize the game design is DPS DPS DPS....
Some stuff just won't work folks... One of each weapon type... Torp/Beam/Single Canon/Torp... ect ect.
Just sell them preset STF Approved ships... they need it.
EDIT:
I won't go and change my initial some what flippant OP. I will simply edit this as some have suggested to say. Yes I was a bit of a jerk in the above. I still feel I had a point... we have had some good conversation over 20+ pages now. Before you respond with a Die in a fire OP... read though at least some of the conversation. Some good ideas to help with ALL our our que issues have come up in the following pages. Thanks.
But I like the option to load my ship w/ mines/torpedoes and go do an Advanced or Elite run and have fun! (Yes, I'm being serious).
To the OP. I get it. I do. There are some runs where I wonder if the pilot had 5 drinks too many, or if they're playing on a 486 DX2 PC. Suggesting that Cryptic should make ships pre-fabs only won't solve the problem.
I hope you get to fly STF's to your enjoyment (when lagfest is over).
As I told the OP back when... I can do 20k on my science ship, not the greatest, but not bad... and I'm most certainly a casual player, with only a couple hours a week online due to something called real life. So before you start generalizing and stating that all casuals don't want to better themselves... in a game for all things that literally doesn't matter... maybe you should think.
This is something that bugs me as well.
"Casual" does not mean "incompetent" or "ignorant".
Why are the default loadouts for ships so trash? Ever notice most of the bad builds tend to stick with the same terrible weapon setups? I wonder why.
Anyone who wanted the three different Solonae suits had to do A Step Between Stars three times. Three times flying that Dyson Destroyer with the crappiest layout I'd ever seen, worse than anything I've ever seen a player fly.
Especially now that the game caps at 60 and enemies scale, it's a tedious exercise in frustration.
I wonder how many Dyson Destroyer sales the guy who does the layouts for Cryptic's promo ships cost them?
See, (and this is no appeal to authority or the like, it's just my experience), I've been playing MMOs since UO back in '97. How have I seen most folks make acquaintances and the like during that time? Doing content.
Most games I have played were no were near as instanced as this game is. So folks would come across people while out in the game world doing stuff...if they were working toward doing the same thing or the like, they might formally or informally party up. If they had a good time running an instance with folks, they might ask about friend requests and the like. People met people by playing the game...that's my experience.
When I started STO, although there is no world - it was a case of running into folks in various queues. So yep, met folks either in PvE or PvP queues.
So then, in looking at STO now...all the dead public queues while the private queues are thriving...
STO has become the most anti-social game I've ever played with all the focus on single-player activities or small cliques.
+100.
Some more open-world/space, team-oriented events would be beneficial.
I'm not a noob and my Voth Palisade does crappy DPS, but it can disable its opponent quickly.
As someone said, there is no standard ship build, AND it wouldn't help a bad player to have some player prebuilt ship because most DPS builds I see have craploads of lockbox and lobi store consoles. They also wouldn't have the elaborate keybinds that help said good players press that spacebar with Aux2Bat and pew pew their way through the game.
Like many mmo's elite instances/dungeons are catered towards tweaking your build/gear to the 99% optimal. (with an emphasis on gear more often than not)
The variable in which they differ is how impossible it is for an undergeared toon to succeed and what are his options.
It does not make one good or bad at this game to have gear issues.
You realize this is a game, right? The point of a game is to have fun. This isn't an organized tournament. There's no prizes here. There's no high score list. There's not even an end. At no point do you see "The End, you win!". In 5 years nobody is going to go "Hey, remember him. He did 200k DPS in ISA. He was a god among men.". Seriously, stop being a self righteous *******. This may come as a complete shock to you, but some people have fun regardless of how they are doing. I'm a hardcore strategy gamer and I had this friend back in high school that had more fun losing than any man I know. I would sit there and watch him laughing his TRIBBLE off as his base got destroyed because of something silly. People like you are far too up tight about this game. Somebody mentioned chess masters previously. Here's the difference. They are playing in organized tournaments. Do you think they go down to their local park or game store, pull out a board, then give everybody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level? Do you think the players on the World Series of Poker go down to their local casino and give Joe Nobody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level?
Some of you have argued "you'd be getting way better payoffs doing normal than playing advanced and losing". This may come as a shock, but some people aren't doing it for the marks, they are doing it because it provided more enjoyment or more of a challenge than a regular mission. I'm sitting on 4k Nuke marks right now and I've already got the space set, both ground sets, 2 sets of elite widows, and some reprogrammable drones. Yet, I'm still playing Crystalline Entity every day. Why? Because I enjoy that mission.
I've played organized, paid, tournaments for games before. You know what? Even then you get players who suck at the game. I've seen players where you can tell even before the match starts they are out of their league. But, hey, if they are still having fun, more power to them.
There's also the fact this is a Star Trek game. That means there's a lot of people playing because it's Star Trek, not because they are gamers. I have a friend who refuses to fly anything other than a Galaxy because he loves TNG. That's his choice. I let him know he's limiting his options but if that's what's fun for him, more power to it.
I said before, I understand the frustration of getting paired with players who aren't carrying their weight. However, some of you seem to have forgotten you are playing open, public game. This isn't a closed tournament or organized event. You aren't playing at the All-Star Game, you're playing backyard pickup games. You make due with what you get. If you want a higher caliber player you should be playing in organized teams. It's that simple.
While I agree, in principal, that people should exercise some judgement before joining a mission marked as "Advanced" or "Elite", some people enjoy a challenge even if it means losing. As several people mentioned before, you can blow through "Normal" and still be "unfit" for an "Advanced" or "Elite". If "normal" is too easy, I'm going to play "advanced", regardless of the outcome.
How many sports teams do you see go undefeated? What some of you are expecting is a team of Michael Jordan's for every STF you do. That's simply unrealistic. Even the best teams have bench warmers and even the best teams lose some times.
I hope thatg you become an uncorruptable politician one day, because you get it, and you delivered the message very well.
Comments
It is unfortunate that the days of being able to que with randoms and have a reasonable shot at victory are gone, I rather enjoyed it, especially if I could carry a whole team through it which was totally possible if I had at least one person on the team who wanst completely useless. Now it only takes a single fool to ruin the game for 4 other people regardless of how good they are.
I suspect these days will return, but only when the lowest common denominator of the game's population reaches the power levels required to steamroll content.
As I told the OP back when... I can do 20k on my science ship, not the greatest, but not bad... and I'm most certainly a casual player, with only a couple hours a week online due to something called real life. So before you start generalizing and stating that all casuals don't want to better themselves... in a game for all things that literally doesn't matter... maybe you should think.
Actually, I think you're completely projecting some other anger onto my post.
I don't advocate verbally abusing players. I've even said as much in the thread.
What an awful comparison.
Then let them go into private games.
You know full well the average PUG isn't expecting to lose, or at least doesn't want to have the expectation to lose.
Reaching for a greater challenge is fantastic, but by doing it in a PUG you're negatively impacting four people totally unaware of this fact.
That seems entirely selfish.
You come across as hardly any different than a troll.
Now you're just being a hypocrite, while at the same time blaming someone else.
However give a man a fish and he'll eat for the daty, teach him how to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life. A more effective way would be to actually make them understand what x item and y ability do and provide samples to start with.
These samples should include Mk XI rare items (common mk X is too low), global retrain of existing boffs to include the powers needed for the ship, a set of common doffs to start with.
LOLWUT?
I don't see how that statement could be taken as anything other than inflammitory/insulting.
And telling people they shouldn't play aspects of a game because you don't like how they play it isn't? The game promises you will need higher quality players to successfully complete the mission. It does not promise you will always successfully complete the mission nor does it promise you will only play with higher quality players. If you want more than that, it's on you to find people who meet your standards not the masses go out of their way to avoid you.
Not to mention, you aren't going to know you're the weak link until you're in a position that link breaks. If you're having no problem pugging normals then switch to advanced and those fail, would you automatically assume you're the problem?
Just going to drop this in: The problem with the Foundry idea is that a lot of the things STFs call for you to do are either difficult or literally impossible to simulate with the current toolset. Like, "Azure Nebula Rescue" is mechanically doable but we don't have the assets, and we don't have any way of setting a stationary object like an ISE generator as a destructible object. The editor is pretty basic and hasn't had new capabilities added in forever.
So, you want that to happen, you're going to have to help us beg Cryptic for better tools.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Most people would understand "Put your power to half and shoot this target. Now put your power to full and shoot the next target. See the difference?" in a practical demonstration (without the condescension and frustration).
Actually, no. This is an MMO: you're supposed to be on a team, not just playing solo. At least not entirely. Mind you, I don't care at all about PUG-ers pulling in low numbers in... a PUG (I usually just peruse the PUGS a bit for lolz). Nevertheless, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask of people that they consider the team too.
Usually things go awry when people ask, yea demand even, that ppl consider the team. Then they all get defensive. And maybe justly so. Those peeps, however, could also simply be considerate, of their own accord, and not join a PUG level they know they're not really ready for.
Just sayin'.
P.S. Remember, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME WHEN YOU'RE PART OF THE TEAM! Lego wisdom at its finest. :P
Noobs can be obnoxious too. When I was still one (some might say I still am, LOL), I was flying my brand new Orb Weaver, and did like 1k (or at least I hope I did). At the end of the mission someone mentioned to me I was just flying 'normally,' and still had a lot to learn. I gave him a real smart-alecky reply, like 'Well, how do you expect me to fly, abnormally?!' Of course I took his words to heart, after all, and discovered a wonderful new world of doffs and cycled abilities.
Now I am a player that has no level 60 and still have characters with mk XI stuff. In all the content I play I am doing fine. I do not touch advanced or elite level, because, I think, it is not my playing ground. Most likely I am very far from getting mk XIV and there is game content I will never use.
People may see, you don't need high level gear, if you don't play high level content, but that is not wholly thrue. We all need it some way or another, because a lot of players want to belong to the top and will join high level content, yet undergeared. It is frustrating for them and frustrating for the ones that have the adequate gear.
The game should not drive the player base apart, widen the level playing field. The difficulty of the mission should not be the number of hitpoints you have to eat and the time it will take you. You should be able to outsmart on opponent, not just outgun him.
I can give an idea. In this game we use weapons with firing arcs. In real combat we would immediately think of and use formations. Have you ever seen such a thing in this game? No, is it a combat game? No.
That's bs...I've tried to help players a dozen or so times, but players aren't very receptive to changing their terribad builds even if you've proven to know what your talking about. Generally the conversation devolves into the player defending said terribad build.
Even in pvp after I repeatedly send them to respawn over and over again and they specifically ask about my build they still won't listen to my suggestions to improve their ships.
Great saying. Ideed its a team game, thats why I love ground. That part hasnt been plagued (yet) by the DPS curse, altho recent changes on grounds start to suggest otherwise. The thing is, it matters what you do as a team member. For example, I gladly took down from my kit ambush and a grenade to replace them with a doffed overwatch and a rebought motivation, to support the team in bug hunt. I didnt cared if my DPS went down becouse the replacements suport the team and help better at completing the mission.
But the problem is Cryptic has turned the space combat game in a single player game via huge HP lvls (played like 7 years Lineage2 and never seen in an update an increase of even ten times fold of hp lvls) and very harsh times and conditions. Like god forbid to slot an Extend shield skill or even a EPtS becouse it will hurt my DPS. Must use EPtW or you are a noob:rolleyes: Same goes for using a console or console sets. Ppl react badly if someone uses a thalaron pulse
But thats the problem... You are the bad player and have a terribad build.
Let me explain with an example of my own. Around Season 5 I start to do STFs. With a ship build by me but following general rules. Had a nice Souverreign class ship (assault cruiser), with 2 phasers beams, a quantum and a photo torp front and 2 phasers, a photon and a tricobalt aft. Phasers tac consoles and as skills TT, BFAW1 and HY 2 as offensive skills and lots an heal skills: extend shield, aux to sif, HE and TSS. Had alot of fun in solo content with it, with trics criting for 40k (werent nerfed back then) so I brought it an STFs. In the very first STF, there were 2 guys with 2 escorts (was EScort Online back then), who would just "hug" the enemies most of the times to make the most of the cannons. And... my hy trics killed them a few times. Had alot fo bad words changing between me and them and ended with them been put on the ignore list. You see, from my point of view I had nothinf wrong: ship was build accordingly with some general rules, was canon (its a Star Trek game after all not a DPS Numbers Online game, altho sadly Cryptic doesnt seem to care) and I had fun with it so those players were idiots who provided a very bad and unfun game enviroment/attituide. From the 2 escort pilots point of view I was a dead weight (cruisers were considered like that becouse no sof cap and no cruiser commands), with a terribad build and who trolled them becouse they wanted to finish the STF as fast as posible. That was their fun, wich btw I didnt had anything againts. Now aswell. What ever floats your boat.
Fortunely, pre-DR, both points of view didnt matter becouse using both playstyles one could finish the missions.
But sadly, post-DR, its not the case anymore. Cetain playstyles are been enforced on players, wich are mistaken alot for bad players. Dont blame the players, blame Cryptic for TRIBBLE up the game.
What color is the sky in your world?
THEN ask for some help to make 10.000 Damage Per Second in an Infected Space Advanced game.
Join DPS-10.000 , ask for advice to make 30k.
Start winning Elite Games. Don't join DPS channels for 10k as a lot of noobs and ******* are in there unfortunately but go for 30k that is a more than a decent channel.
You are welcome.
Also I dont want to hear complains about only tacs being good with numbers. We have engineers and scientists who can do more than 50k dps.
Why are the default loadouts for ships so trash? Ever notice most of the bad builds tend to stick with the same terrible weapon setups? I wonder why.
Why are so many consoles worthless? Why is crew still in the game? Yes I know what it does, and it is broken beyond belief.
The game is not hard. Making a good build is not at all difficult. But it is extremely unintuitive and the game contentiously teaches and then reinforces bad builds.
And while we could all just wish the average player was a bit better at figuring things out realistically if that ever happened I'm pretty sure that would cost Cryptic a ton of money in lost sales.
Let's not feed the troll here okay?
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^^^^This! Read the part in red. I bet the OP never bothers to do this. So in a way, his problems running STF's are of his own making... Well, not just him. I would point to any player with a similar attitude.
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OMG! The OP just admitted to being wrong! :eek: A certain under-world must have frozen over recently!
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How are you supposed to work out what is ok for PVE queues and what isn't? Some people like flying with beams, other like cannons, some like torps only. A lot of people like to play with canon faction builds. Others prefer to run science builds that do barely any DPS but will shut down or pin down half the map.
The real key to getting people better is helping them find that sweet spot where they can confidently fly their chosen ship build and be effective. And being effective is not just DPS! You can be effective in a CC or drain build or a shield stripper, or a healer.
Hell even the new command ships are going to be about a lot more than just DPS, they can debuff enemies and help the entire team, regardless of what their DPS output is.
If a player gets a build style they like and they can get it running so it helps out the team in an STF then who are we to tell them they are doing it wrong. As long as they are not hindering the team and their style of play is actually doing some thing useful then they should be free to play as they wish.
My Pathfinder can hoover up everything inside of 10km into a grav well and hold them there. It does probably only 8-10K DPS on a really good day but it is highly effective and controlling the enemy and stops many PVE queues from failing. I can hold an ISA together whilst everyone else kills the main targets. I know other need to carry the mission in regards to DPS on targets but without my massive grav well to keep the nanites busy who else would save the mission from certain failure?
Of course the game & mission design is to blame in many respects.
1) There is no guidance for what builds and combinations don't work well. New players need to fail to learn but with no feedback as to why their Mk XIV DHC's are not killing things from 9km away because of range drop-off how are they to know any better? Where does is actually tell you not to slot 5 torps fwd because of overlapping CD's? Where does it tell you how power level drain will kill your damage output? Where does it tell you what boff powers will set off a CD on other powers?
2) There is no pre-combat time to discuss things in missions. Yes in a premade you can chat before you start but in a pug before you can even say hello someone will be off trying for a speed-run and will ruin any chance of discussing tactics or how the mission works.
3) DPS always gets brought into things but there is no way to measure it without 3rd party software...meaning for most players it is something they may never know about.
4) Sticking a tonne of HPs onto the NPCs or minimal timers doesn't help at all. It just forces the players into high DPS builds. This means when a newbie come along they look rubbish compared to those who know what is required. But how is a newbie t get better unless they can succeed in advanced missions to get rep gear of rewards ot buy better gear.
Your new around here aren't you ? I almost always admit when I'm wrong.
he does admit when he is wrong we have had many a debate around here been a long while mainly because sci has been gaining the ground it needs to be on par with the rest of the pack(thank god!)
so look all the people that join in and focus on SPHERES(not the nanite spheres) in Infected before transformer or folks who ignore probes in khitomer or ignore protecting kang they are the problem.
its not hard to get enough dps to at least carry your own weight and i see alot of people doing so.only rarly do i see someone doing less then 1.5k and usualy folks are doing 2k-5k.
I suggest maybe we need to start linking "bad players" to guides on how to actualy do the mission objectives and if they are doing less then 5k dps push them in the direction of some of our basic build guides to get them a general idea what they are expected to be doing.
i always tell folks to go to the reddit sto builds page so with that new players beware if i see you not atleast trying i will indeed mark your name down in my black book of annoyance :P
Do you remember where you found them?
See, (and this is no appeal to authority or the like, it's just my experience), I've been playing MMOs since UO back in '97. How have I seen most folks make acquaintances and the like during that time? Doing content.
Most games I have played were no were near as instanced as this game is. So folks would come across people while out in the game world doing stuff...if they were working toward doing the same thing or the like, they might formally or informally party up. If they had a good time running an instance with folks, they might ask about friend requests and the like. People met people by playing the game...that's my experience.
When I started STO, although there is no world - it was a case of running into folks in various queues. So yep, met folks either in PvE or PvP queues.
So then, in looking at STO now...all the dead public queues while the private queues are thriving...
STO has become the most anti-social game I've ever played with all the focus on single-player activities or small cliques.
But I like the option to load my ship w/ mines/torpedoes and go do an Advanced or Elite run and have fun! (Yes, I'm being serious).
To the OP. I get it. I do. There are some runs where I wonder if the pilot had 5 drinks too many, or if they're playing on a 486 DX2 PC. Suggesting that Cryptic should make ships pre-fabs only won't solve the problem.
I hope you get to fly STF's to your enjoyment (when lagfest is over).
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
This is something that bugs me as well.
"Casual" does not mean "incompetent" or "ignorant".
Anyone who wanted the three different Solonae suits had to do A Step Between Stars three times. Three times flying that Dyson Destroyer with the crappiest layout I'd ever seen, worse than anything I've ever seen a player fly.
Especially now that the game caps at 60 and enemies scale, it's a tedious exercise in frustration.
I wonder how many Dyson Destroyer sales the guy who does the layouts for Cryptic's promo ships cost them?
+100.
Some more open-world/space, team-oriented events would be beneficial.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
As someone said, there is no standard ship build, AND it wouldn't help a bad player to have some player prebuilt ship because most DPS builds I see have craploads of lockbox and lobi store consoles. They also wouldn't have the elaborate keybinds that help said good players press that spacebar with Aux2Bat and pew pew their way through the game.
The variable in which they differ is how impossible it is for an undergeared toon to succeed and what are his options.
It does not make one good or bad at this game to have gear issues.
I hope thatg you become an uncorruptable politician one day, because you get it, and you delivered the message very well.
Thank you.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.