"IN GAME DPS METER!!!! (With a single mission we all would run to base it off of)"
....quietly sneaks out....
Would be a great game tool. A simple in game parser that tracked DPS and HPS would go a long way to helping many people. Trying to improve in any game with out metrics is next to impossible.
Actually even 10k isn't enough for some, me and my husband did an infected conduit advanced both of us doiing at least 10k and we pugged the rest with most of them doing 7 or so and still failed.
The 35k minimum is just the total health of enemies divided by the timer, the team still needs to be aware of what they're supposed to do.
For ISA, that means if a generator is blown, you blow the other generators ASAP and then burn down the transformer. If ISA failed when the party had an average of 8k DPS, then somebody didn't know how to do ISA.
Likewise with BDA, a group of people who each do 50k would still fail if they have no idea what they're doing, and nobody is freeing the Borg.
Think of a potluck.
The DPS requirement is like the amount of food that needs to be at the potluck so that everybody has enough to eat. So everybody should bring X amount of food, or it's not fair and you're mooching off the others. If everybody is a mooch (not bringing enough) then nobody has enough to eat and the potluck was a failure.
The requirement of knowing how to do the STF is like knowing what to bring. Doesn't matter if you bring ten times more food than necessary if you give everybody food poisoning...
And just because your method or build works for you and gets you the stats you find acceptable doesn't mean it's the "right" way or the "only" way, as others have demonstrated in this thread (the kick-TRIBBLE CC Nebula from Hell for instance...nice, thought of trying something similar myself, but I love my Oddy tank too much).
....I'm probably getting my hopes up over nothing here, but pleeeeeeeease tell me you were referring to me with the CC Nebula part of the quote, here...; I could really use a lift about now in life, and would gladly add that to my signature with due credit....
As for the poster with the T5-U Rhode Island(Sci Captain brofist!), keep doing what you're doing!
If everyone would like to, feel free to look at the Chattanooga(my Fleet Nebula) via the STO Gateway, or just look here(For some reason, neither the Gateway nor Skill Planner page properly show my layout[the Gateway shows no buffs on equipment and the BoFF setup is all wrong]; I've made my best guess on the latter, regarding Mk numbers, and a Mk XII VR Inhibiting Secondary Deflector that I made myself occupies the appropriate slot)...: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=chattanoogafebruary2015_0
It's not the most elegant design, nor the most powerful...but it's got all KINDS of exotic/kinetic damage potential(all of my space traits go towards this), can debuff a lot of targets -very- quickly, and easily rein in multiple mobs with little effort, while having more than enough resistance and shield/hull regen to get the job done....
The only way I have thought of this can be fixed is for there to be a mission you have to complete SOLO to gain entry to advanced and elite content
You have to finish this mission to be able to Q up for advanced and elite content
If you change your ship loadout you have to redo the mission the ship not traits batterys doffs or boffs
you should not be able to Q up if damaged or wounded
The mission should be like the content and as hard as the content but done solo
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The game is more often about destroying things and within a certain amount of time. DPS is a measure of damage divided by time, which seems to match up, but even that can be misleading.
I have a Mat'ha raptor with CRF doing X DPS in Y time while running Argala.
I have a Scimitar beam boat with BFAW doing X+(X/2) DPS but it takes Y+(Y/3) time doing Argala.
The ship with lower DPS completes Argala in a much faster time. Not by mere seconds, but consistently much more than a minute faster. The higher DPS ship completes it in much longer time. Measured solely by DPS, the ship with a faster time is worse.
Yes, you need damage output since the baddies must be destroyed. I've completed a randomly joined ISA with a team average of 6.29k DPS. If there had been 2 solid science ships staggering the use of grav wells, warp plasma, and maybe TBR too, it's possible the delaying of the nanite spheres could have enabled the remaining players to destroy the transformers in an even longer amount of time that would push the needed minimum DPS lower. Reading into that, I am saying that it depends on the makeup of the team, the skills of the players, what they bring, their teamwork and how proficient they are that impacts things. Something like multiple players combining fire on spheres, attacking the same shield facing, means it takes less DPS overall to destroy it as little damage output is wasted on other shield facings that can absorb some of that damage.
So, how do you help other players who could easily improve the effectiveness? How about you stick around after the STF fails or is completed and ask the others if they would like help improving their ship builds. You'll get ignored most of the time, but not all the time. If any of them are not in a fleet, maybe you could invite them to your fleet.
Join random STFs with a fleet member. Maybe the fleet member is in need of that improvement advice and working with them will break the ice and open the dialog for help. Maybe the 2 of you will show the other players how easy it is and they might be more open to discussing improvement advice.
Don't just assume that since the advice is out there that the other folks will go find it to improve their builds, point the ones that want to improve in that direction, where to find it, links to certain forum posts, maybe invest more than a few seconds of your time in that endeavor, and you might help make a difference.
I am not a programmer type, but i wonder if something like you suggest could done with the foundry? A mission that is a training program. Use your current ship, have the NPC's explain what will work and wont work. What this weapon type does, etc.
If I could use the foundry, I would spend some time making those, then try to get them shared on the forms and by the powers that be.
I have no clue what my dps is, but I normally get 1st or 2nd in Advanced Crystal Entity, with my Eng Oddy. How can I find out? I don't mind hunting it down if you don't have time. I'm not lazy or anything.
If I'm equipping beams on my ship, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Cannons.
I'm I'm equipping phasers, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Disruptors.
If I'm equipping cannons, I shouldn't be able to assign a TAC BOFF that has BFaW or Beam Overload.
If I have a phaser beam array in two of my 4 slots, I shouldn't be able to slot a tetyron beam array.
They have +beams and +cannons consoles. They don't boost as much as the dedicated ones but you can run a disco ball or skittle shooter with boosted damage.
I understand, but there is much more to it than making a single player mission to "teach people how to do STFs."
One thing that comes to mind that would help with DPS would be to put in restrictions on slotting BOFF abilities and consoles, so for example;
If I'm equipping beams on my ship, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Cannons.
I'm I'm equipping phasers, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Disruptors.
If I'm equipping cannons, I shouldn't be able to assign a TAC BOFF that has BFaW or Beam Overload.
If I have a phaser beam array in two of my 4 slots, I shouldn't be able to slot a tetyron beam array.
That could help with the gear part. How to spend skill points properly is another issue. Even if Cryptic were to add an in-game DPS meter, people still wouldn't necessarily know how to spend points properly. Eventually, the average person is going to ask for help/advice with a build.
None of this will ever help with getting people to communicate and work together. As I keep citing, you're still going to get someone who goes right instead of left and doesn't listen to others. There's nothing you can do about that.
If you really want to avoid issues with queued events, form private matches.
Your idea about gear lockouts for incompatiable stuff is a great one. Not sure how hard it would be for Cryptic level programmers to pull off... and how buggy it could be. Something like that from day one would have been nice. (however perhaps instead of a lockout... a simple popup window that had a nice message that said something like "The console you are attempting to equip does not benefit your installed weaponry."
I think when it comes to training missions it should be something more in depth then one mission before an STF no doubt... and to be honest it goes beyond the STFs. I mean if people are playing the game normally with some of the builds I have seen, its no wonder to me that player retention sucks.
I think they should create 3-5 academy missions for every 10 levels a player achieves when leveling.
So at level 10 they would get a a few missions that could cover basics like...
"Advanced Power Management"
"Emergency Power and Power System Bridge Officer Skills"
"Effective Weapon Distance"
"Explanation of Advanced Ship consoles"
These missions would be a great opportunity to bring in a lower cost voice actor like say Aron Eisenberg who played Nog. They should also be rewarded and setup as a series that can't be skipped like most missions. That way they could take the last mission in the chain and add some nice rewards. (Perhaps as much as a full day of D on the first play through) Giving them hopefully a cool factor that would have everyone (even older players) go through them.
At level 20 another 3 should unlock... with more advance things like tactics, including team healing ect.
You get the idea... a few missions every 10 levels that would get people ready to team with other people... knowning how to survive themselves... how to deal dmg... and how to work as a team.
They could even feature all the missions in an Academy Weekend promo and perhaps even set replay rewards on some of the missions. Perhaps something like a "red squad" ship set and ground gear ect.
Because all of those are bad terrible options... and if you tried to leave space dock with a setup like that and you where responsible for the 600-1000 souls on board. I would hope your superior would demote you. lol
....I'm probably getting my hopes up over nothing here, but pleeeeeeeease tell me you were referring to me with the CC Nebula part of the quote, here...
I had to go back and look again but...yes.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I understand, but there is much more to it than making a single player mission to "teach people how to do STFs."
One thing that comes to mind that would help with DPS would be to put in restrictions on slotting BOFF abilities and consoles, so for example;
If I'm equipping beams on my ship, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Cannons.
I'm I'm equipping phasers, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Disruptors.
If I'm equipping cannons, I shouldn't be able to assign a TAC BOFF that has BFaW or Beam Overload.
If I have a phaser beam array in two of my 4 slots, I shouldn't be able to slot a tetyron beam array.
That could help with the gear part.
Honestly?! Seriously, nobody is so stupid as to make *any* of the mistakes you mention above, right!?
Besides, my Experimental Proton Wep, for instance, is like a cannon, but can also be affected by BFAW. Cryptic shouldn't dictate what I can slot like that.
Because all of those are bad terrible options... and if you tried to leave space dock with a setup like that and you where responsible for the 600-1000 souls on board. I would hope your superior would demote you. lol
You can make all of those "mistakes" - do all sorts of things "wrong"...and have no problem doing 15-20k. You kill build diversity because players in the "right" boats still couldn't pull 5k? That would just irritate the Hell out of me if the game was like that.
That build I posted before is 13-15k with 3 torps, an Experimental, KCB, and 3 Mk XII [Acc]x2[CrtD] arrays using Beam consoles...while taking 60-80% of the attacks, taking 7-10m base damage, and putting out 1.5-2m healing. I run a Destroyer build with a mix of Cannons, Beams, and Torps that puts out 16-18k while taking 40% of the hits, 50% of the damage, and doing 50% of the healing. I mix all sorts of weapon types and Tac BOFF abilities. No, I'm not looking to do 30k or more...but there's no content that requires anywhere near that.
Putting players in the "right" build won't mean TRIBBLE if they don't know what to do with it...and knowing what to do with it allows folks to experience all the fun possible from flying the "wrong" build. Because the potential we've got is ludicrous compared to the content...so there's room for all sorts of goofy funtastic stuff one can do.
They have +beams and +cannons consoles. They don't boost as much as the dedicated ones but you can run a disco ball or skittle shooter with boosted damage.
Lol, people forget about those except torp build captains and rainbow boat enthusiasts.
Please just sell ships with Hard fixed weapons and consoles. Develop a system to let people upgrade them a bit if you want to try to make some extra cash.
BUT Stop giving people options.
Cause when you give them options they start thinking the stupidest things you can imagine are good ideas for there ship builds.
I am sick of popping in now and then to play this game and realizing that a quick PvE Que is a no go because the average player in this game is beyond help.
Just spoon feed them please. There is no excuse for ships doing under 10k DPS anymore. The only conclusion is that players doing under that are Trolls / RPers that might as well be trolls... or just not intelligent enough to realize the game design is DPS DPS DPS....
Some stuff just won't work folks... One of each weapon type... Torp/Beam/Single Canon/Torp... ect ect.
Just sell them preset STF Approved ships... they need it.
EDIT:
I won't go and change my initial some what flippant OP. I will simply edit this as some have suggested to say. Yes I was a bit of a jerk in the above. I still feel I had a point... we have had some good conversation over 20+ pages now. Before you respond with a Die in a fire OP... read though at least some of the conversation. Some good ideas to help with ALL our our que issues have come up in the following pages. Thanks.
Because STO's end game "raids" are SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
:rolleyes:
I used to run queues and STFs and such, but frankly the rewards now just aren't juicy enough to deal with the likes of YOU.
If you need a group that pumps out 99.9999% optimized DPS, then join a fleet or put together a premade.
See what I did there?
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Perhaps what is really needed is a bunch of ....training missions... where a NPC gives you a basic weapons pack to install and explains how to use the items and what they do... and how to get better stuff later.
This would be a good idea. A 'holodeck' for dry fire STF simulations.
This idea could address other issues such as solo-players that want 'stuff' but for various reasons ranging from compelling (eg. pug abuse) to absurd (eg. precious snowflake) avoid queue's.
Tier the training missions with performance gates that earn, say Tier I to Tier II rewards. A variation of the reputation system. Make Tier III rewards available only by group play (fleet or pug) and Tier III accolade advancement. Also, make the rewards unique, not R&D parts.
instead of a flat purple rock reward given to everyone instead there was a purple rock pool for the mission. Let us just say 5k for an ISA for easy numbers. In ISA damage dealt and damage taken are the only measurable contributions, CC cannot be measured and healing is far too easy to fake. Average the individual %s in the mission and distribute the purple rock reward accordingly. So say in one run everyone deals 20% of the damage and receive 20%, they each get 1000. Let us say another run one person deals 10% and receives 100% but everyone else deals 18% again everyone gets 1000. But if in one run one person deals 60% and receives 60% well they get 60% of the purple rock reward or 3000. Queues requiring interacts (AZA) would allow that to figure into the reward structure as well.
This would encourage PuGs. Even if your top tier you get a bigger chuck of the purple rock. If you are just being carried you get a bit less purple rock but you still get your marks etc. And if you carry your own weight in the group no worries, everyone gets the same!
I can already hear the complaints "I like to be a healer" well first off in PvE that makes me giggle, secondly if you enjoy being the 'support' just keep being selfless when looking at the reward.
Tanks are still covered, they can be useful if they are good at it. Crowd control/debuffing is plenty capable of keeping pace in the damage department when in a group where that would be helpful anyway.
I know it would never be a priority enough to be created but it'd be interesting.
All I know is right now the queues are depressing to participate in most nights.
instead of a flat purple rock reward given to everyone instead there was a purple rock pool for the mission. Let us just say 5k for an ISA for easy numbers. In ISA damage dealt and damage taken are the only measurable contributions, CC cannot be measured and healing is far too easy to fake. Average the individual %s in the mission and distribute the purple rock reward accordingly. So say in one run everyone deals 20% of the damage and receive 20%, they each get 1000. Let us say another run one person deals 10% and receives 100% but everyone else deals 18% again everyone gets 1000. But if in one run one person deals 60% and receives 60% well they get 60% of the purple rock reward or 3000. Queues requiring interacts (AZA) would allow that to figure into the reward structure as well.
This would encourage PuGs. Even if your top tier you get a bigger chuck of the purple rock. If you are just being carried you get a bit less purple rock but you still get your marks etc. And if you carry your own weight in the group no worries, everyone gets the same!
I can already hear the complaints "I like to be a healer" well first off in PvE that makes me giggle, secondly if you enjoy being the 'support' just keep being selfless when looking at the reward.
Tanks are still covered, they can be useful if they are good at it. Crowd control/debuffing is plenty capable of keeping pace in the damage department when in a group where that would be helpful anyway.
I know it would never be a priority enough to be created but it'd be interesting.
All I know is right now the queues are depressing to participate in most nights.
Why should need to encourage PuGs? On the current system, The ones the benefits from PuGs are leechers and trolls. You cannot bail out on PuG mission without leaver penalty.
There is no way to discipline PuGs who just dont listen or forced them to listen or even bail on them.
That is why the in game community not the game move away from PuGs.
You can make all of those "mistakes" - do all sorts of things "wrong"...and have no problem doing 15-20k. You kill build diversity because players in the "right" boats still couldn't pull 5k? That would just irritate the Hell out of me if the game was like that.
That build I posted before is 13-15k with 3 torps, an Experimental, KCB, and 3 Mk XII [Acc]x2[CrtD] arrays using Beam consoles...while taking 60-80% of the attacks, taking 7-10m base damage, and putting out 1.5-2m healing. I run a Destroyer build with a mix of Cannons, Beams, and Torps that puts out 16-18k while taking 40% of the hits, 50% of the damage, and doing 50% of the healing. I mix all sorts of weapon types and Tac BOFF abilities. No, I'm not looking to do 30k or more...but there's no content that requires anywhere near that.
Putting players in the "right" build won't mean TRIBBLE if they don't know what to do with it...and knowing what to do with it allows folks to experience all the fun possible from flying the "wrong" build. Because the potential we've got is ludicrous compared to the content...so there's room for all sorts of goofy funtastic stuff one can do.
I have a sci ship with all torps and not dmg consoles at all.... I'm not talking about kinetic stuff here.
Look at the stuff that valoreah was talking about.
Phaser beams... with tetryon consoles... Yes I know it sounds dumb. I also know I have helped people in the past that have very much that type of thing going on.
I have talked to people that believed there where diminishing returns on tac consoles so they ran a rainbow with a disruptor/phaser/anti proton consoles... I kid you not I talked to THAT guy at one point.
I think his suggestion isn't all that bad... the only thing I would change would be to not Disallow it but to rather Post a Warning message anytime someone tried to equip something that had little or no reason to be on there ship. (cause yes I know we all laugh... who in there right mind would put phaser consoles on when they had disruptors on there ship... but there out there I have no doubt. )
I have a sci ship with all torps and not dmg consoles at all.... I'm not talking about kinetic stuff here.
Look at the stuff that valoreah was talking about.
Phaser beams... with tetryon consoles... Yes I know it sounds dumb. I also know I have helped people in the past that have very much that type of thing going on.
I have talked to people that believed there where diminishing returns on tac consoles so they ran a rainbow with a disruptor/phaser/anti proton consoles... I kid you not I talked to THAT guy at one point.
I think his suggestion isn't all that bad... the only thing I would change would be to not Disallow it but to rather Post a Warning message anytime someone tried to equip something that had little or no reason to be on there ship. (cause yes I know we all laugh... who in there right mind would put phaser consoles on when they had disruptors on there ship... but there out there I have no doubt. )
First, about the diminishing returns on the Tac consoles.../cough...I think it's time we stop denying it, but explain why it isn't the case. Wait, that makes no sense? Don't deny it, but it explain why it isn't the case? Makes no sense! ... But it makes perfect sense...depending on how you look at it.
Bunch of us know there are no diminishing returns on them...you add a 31.9% console, the second adds 31.9% just like the first, and the third, etc, etc, etc.
Take somebody that's looking at their damage as they add the consoles...well, that second one added a smaller percentage than the first and that third added an even smaller percentage.
Instead of trying to deny them what they're seeing right before their very eyes...maybe we could get them to look at the actual amount that each added, yeah? The first one added say 65...the second added 65...the third added 65. Tada...they'll get it at that point. They weren't wrong, but they weren't right...and just because they weren't wrong doesn't mean they weren't right.
It's an awesome perspective discussion to troll folks with, mind you...heh, had a bit of too much fun there in the past.
Okay then, the four things that were posted...
If I'm equipping beams on my ship, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Cannons.
I'm I'm equipping phasers, I should not be able to slot TAC consoles that buff Disruptors.
If I'm equipping cannons, I shouldn't be able to assign a TAC BOFF that has BFaW or Beam Overload.
If I have a phaser beam array in two of my 4 slots, I shouldn't be able to slot a tetyron beam array.
Perhaps I was taking it a little too...literal? And maybe I definitely focused on the third more than the other three...hrmmm...yeah. It was literally the third one...mixed in with some non-literal.
It was definitely the third one, and not really reading/digesting what he was saying. No, if all I've got are cannons - then Beam abilities are stupid. It's the kind of thing you'd expect Cryptic to do on one of their prefab boats for a mission.
It was definitely a PTSD moment sort of thing...don't mix Beams and Cannons nor Torps...BO is garbage, etc, etc, etc. For a wee while there, I was keeping Beam Barrage stacked by using innate Subsystem Targeting and a Rare Subsystem DOFF...so with my limited LCdr Tac I could TS3 some Neuts while also dropping out APB1 and having TT1 available. I wasn't really concerned with my trashmob DPS because of the clump 'n thump that would take place with the GW/TS Neut combo to slaughter stuff. I was more concerned about my single target DPS on Trans, Gateway, Tac Cube sort of stuff.
But yeah, I kind of take back my question there on the wait why/what thing - definitely read that wrong from a trigger word sort of way. I'll leave it there so folks can see I can be a dumbass...
Take somebody that's looking at their damage as they add the consoles...well, that second one added a smaller percentage than the first and that third added an even smaller percentage.
That is actually just somebody who doesn't actually know what diminishing returns means.
You're unusually incoherent here VD, I could barely follow your post. Short on sleep? :P
That is actually just somebody who doesn't actually know what diminishing returns means.
You're unusually incoherent here VD, I could barely follow your post. Short on sleep? :P
One of those things where I've had to change my schedule around a bit and shift my sleep patterns. Wasn't as bad when I was younger, but these days - wow, it's hitting me hard.
And to be honest, the place I'm staying at the moment - out in the hall smells like 9001 bars got together, so I might be intoxicated off of the fumes.
But it was probably the shift in patterns, cause somehow I lost a day during the week until the girlfriend asked me about watching Grimm last night and I argued for a bit that it was only Thursday. No idea how I lost a day...meh.
edit: About what the "diminishing returns means"; there are actually multiple definitions because it's not solely tied to a single discipline. There's also the simple observational matter is what traps folks.
The 1 that was added in each case didn't change. So (a bunch, many, lots of, etc) of us would say there were no diminishing returns, because each time you added 1 you got 1, right?
To the person that's looking at those percentages though...
Adding 1 was a 100% return.
Adding 1 was a 50% return.
Adding 1 was a 33.33% return.
The returns diminished. Diminishing returns.
Not based on any discipline...just based on observation.
Sure, that's not going to be the classical example that a bunch/etc might be familiar with, the adding manpower to an assembly line and a certain point production actually starts going down.
Then again, though, if one thinks about things that way - then even when we use the term diminishing returns in regard to Hull Damage Resistance we'd be doing it wrong. Damage Resistance isn't a type of bell curve where things improve to a point based on what you add and then drop off. Right from the start the returned value is actually diminished. Going from 0 to 1 DRR technically takes you from 0 to 0.99009% DR, not 1% DR. The very first input is diminished. So it's not a case that at some point we'll see a smaller return from each doohickey we add, we start off that way.
I just find that folks that end up arguing about whether it's diminishing returns or not on the Tac consoles tend to end up wasting a bunch of time and it might get nowhere. Rather ask them why they think it is or isn't...then try to explain to them the way it works. They'll get to keep their perceived diminishing returns, but they'll actually understand what they're perceiving, eh?
Basically that the Tac consoles are adding +X% of the TRIBBLE/Mk 0 base damage of the weapon and not continuously adding their percentage, which is a common mistake.
Tooltip says 566.25, they add that +30% Tac console, they expect the tooltip to be 736.125...but it's not going to be that. They add the second Tac console, expecting that 736.125 to become 956.9625...but yeah, it's not going to be that. Not only will they not be seeing that, but after they add that first console taking it from 566.25 to 641.25, a 13.24% increase instead of their expected +30%, and they add in that second console taking them from 641.25 to 716.25, an 11.7% increase instead of their now expected 13.24%...
...yeah, they're going to run into all sorts of problems, eh?
And ugh, I seriously need some sleep - I totally forgot what the Hell I was going to say next.
Comments
"IN GAME DPS METER!!!! (With a single mission we all would run to base it off of)"
....quietly sneaks out....
Would be a great game tool. A simple in game parser that tracked DPS and HPS would go a long way to helping many people. Trying to improve in any game with out metrics is next to impossible.
Join a group of people who feel the same way you do and STOP doing pugs then..
common sense is not so common
The 35k minimum is just the total health of enemies divided by the timer, the team still needs to be aware of what they're supposed to do.
For ISA, that means if a generator is blown, you blow the other generators ASAP and then burn down the transformer. If ISA failed when the party had an average of 8k DPS, then somebody didn't know how to do ISA.
Likewise with BDA, a group of people who each do 50k would still fail if they have no idea what they're doing, and nobody is freeing the Borg.
Think of a potluck.
The DPS requirement is like the amount of food that needs to be at the potluck so that everybody has enough to eat. So everybody should bring X amount of food, or it's not fair and you're mooching off the others. If everybody is a mooch (not bringing enough) then nobody has enough to eat and the potluck was a failure.
The requirement of knowing how to do the STF is like knowing what to bring. Doesn't matter if you bring ten times more food than necessary if you give everybody food poisoning...
....I'm probably getting my hopes up over nothing here, but pleeeeeeeease tell me you were referring to me with the CC Nebula part of the quote, here...; I could really use a lift about now in life, and would gladly add that to my signature with due credit....
As for the poster with the T5-U Rhode Island(Sci Captain brofist!), keep doing what you're doing!
If everyone would like to, feel free to look at the Chattanooga(my Fleet Nebula) via the STO Gateway, or just look here(For some reason, neither the Gateway nor Skill Planner page properly show my layout[the Gateway shows no buffs on equipment and the BoFF setup is all wrong]; I've made my best guess on the latter, regarding Mk numbers, and a Mk XII VR Inhibiting Secondary Deflector that I made myself occupies the appropriate slot)...: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=chattanoogafebruary2015_0
It's not the most elegant design, nor the most powerful...but it's got all KINDS of exotic/kinetic damage potential(all of my space traits go towards this), can debuff a lot of targets -very- quickly, and easily rein in multiple mobs with little effort, while having more than enough resistance and shield/hull regen to get the job done....
You have to finish this mission to be able to Q up for advanced and elite content
If you change your ship loadout you have to redo the mission the ship not traits batterys doffs or boffs
you should not be able to Q up if damaged or wounded
The mission should be like the content and as hard as the content but done solo
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I have a Mat'ha raptor with CRF doing X DPS in Y time while running Argala.
I have a Scimitar beam boat with BFAW doing X+(X/2) DPS but it takes Y+(Y/3) time doing Argala.
The ship with lower DPS completes Argala in a much faster time. Not by mere seconds, but consistently much more than a minute faster. The higher DPS ship completes it in much longer time. Measured solely by DPS, the ship with a faster time is worse.
Yes, you need damage output since the baddies must be destroyed. I've completed a randomly joined ISA with a team average of 6.29k DPS. If there had been 2 solid science ships staggering the use of grav wells, warp plasma, and maybe TBR too, it's possible the delaying of the nanite spheres could have enabled the remaining players to destroy the transformers in an even longer amount of time that would push the needed minimum DPS lower. Reading into that, I am saying that it depends on the makeup of the team, the skills of the players, what they bring, their teamwork and how proficient they are that impacts things. Something like multiple players combining fire on spheres, attacking the same shield facing, means it takes less DPS overall to destroy it as little damage output is wasted on other shield facings that can absorb some of that damage.
So, how do you help other players who could easily improve the effectiveness? How about you stick around after the STF fails or is completed and ask the others if they would like help improving their ship builds. You'll get ignored most of the time, but not all the time. If any of them are not in a fleet, maybe you could invite them to your fleet.
Join random STFs with a fleet member. Maybe the fleet member is in need of that improvement advice and working with them will break the ice and open the dialog for help. Maybe the 2 of you will show the other players how easy it is and they might be more open to discussing improvement advice.
Don't just assume that since the advice is out there that the other folks will go find it to improve their builds, point the ones that want to improve in that direction, where to find it, links to certain forum posts, maybe invest more than a few seconds of your time in that endeavor, and you might help make a difference.
I like this idea.
Wait...what? Why?
They have +beams and +cannons consoles. They don't boost as much as the dedicated ones but you can run a disco ball or skittle shooter with boosted damage.
Your idea about gear lockouts for incompatiable stuff is a great one. Not sure how hard it would be for Cryptic level programmers to pull off... and how buggy it could be. Something like that from day one would have been nice. (however perhaps instead of a lockout... a simple popup window that had a nice message that said something like "The console you are attempting to equip does not benefit your installed weaponry."
I think when it comes to training missions it should be something more in depth then one mission before an STF no doubt... and to be honest it goes beyond the STFs. I mean if people are playing the game normally with some of the builds I have seen, its no wonder to me that player retention sucks.
I think they should create 3-5 academy missions for every 10 levels a player achieves when leveling.
So at level 10 they would get a a few missions that could cover basics like...
"Advanced Power Management"
"Emergency Power and Power System Bridge Officer Skills"
"Effective Weapon Distance"
"Explanation of Advanced Ship consoles"
These missions would be a great opportunity to bring in a lower cost voice actor like say Aron Eisenberg who played Nog. They should also be rewarded and setup as a series that can't be skipped like most missions. That way they could take the last mission in the chain and add some nice rewards. (Perhaps as much as a full day of D on the first play through) Giving them hopefully a cool factor that would have everyone (even older players) go through them.
At level 20 another 3 should unlock... with more advance things like tactics, including team healing ect.
You get the idea... a few missions every 10 levels that would get people ready to team with other people... knowning how to survive themselves... how to deal dmg... and how to work as a team.
They could even feature all the missions in an Academy Weekend promo and perhaps even set replay rewards on some of the missions. Perhaps something like a "red squad" ship set and ground gear ect.
Because all of those are bad terrible options... and if you tried to leave space dock with a setup like that and you where responsible for the 600-1000 souls on board. I would hope your superior would demote you. lol
...which doesn't mean $hit to many of us...
...which has been my point.
Honestly?!
Besides, my Experimental Proton Wep, for instance, is like a cannon, but can also be affected by BFAW. Cryptic shouldn't dictate what I can slot like that.
You can make all of those "mistakes" - do all sorts of things "wrong"...and have no problem doing 15-20k. You kill build diversity because players in the "right" boats still couldn't pull 5k? That would just irritate the Hell out of me if the game was like that.
That build I posted before is 13-15k with 3 torps, an Experimental, KCB, and 3 Mk XII [Acc]x2[CrtD] arrays using Beam consoles...while taking 60-80% of the attacks, taking 7-10m base damage, and putting out 1.5-2m healing. I run a Destroyer build with a mix of Cannons, Beams, and Torps that puts out 16-18k while taking 40% of the hits, 50% of the damage, and doing 50% of the healing. I mix all sorts of weapon types and Tac BOFF abilities. No, I'm not looking to do 30k or more...but there's no content that requires anywhere near that.
Putting players in the "right" build won't mean TRIBBLE if they don't know what to do with it...and knowing what to do with it allows folks to experience all the fun possible from flying the "wrong" build. Because the potential we've got is ludicrous compared to the content...so there's room for all sorts of goofy funtastic stuff one can do.
Lol, people forget about those except torp build captains and rainbow boat enthusiasts.
Because STO's end game "raids" are SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
:rolleyes:
I used to run queues and STFs and such, but frankly the rewards now just aren't juicy enough to deal with the likes of YOU.
If you need a group that pumps out 99.9999% optimized DPS, then join a fleet or put together a premade.
See what I did there?
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Nah, man...we're all dope fiends...got to get our fix of the Mean Green Stuff. DoT, DoT, DoT...muahahahahaha.
.........aaaand I'm taking that compliment to the bank....
This would be a good idea. A 'holodeck' for dry fire STF simulations.
This idea could address other issues such as solo-players that want 'stuff' but for various reasons ranging from compelling (eg. pug abuse) to absurd (eg. precious snowflake) avoid queue's.
Tier the training missions with performance gates that earn, say Tier I to Tier II rewards. A variation of the reputation system. Make Tier III rewards available only by group play (fleet or pug) and Tier III accolade advancement. Also, make the rewards unique, not R&D parts.
instead of a flat purple rock reward given to everyone instead there was a purple rock pool for the mission. Let us just say 5k for an ISA for easy numbers. In ISA damage dealt and damage taken are the only measurable contributions, CC cannot be measured and healing is far too easy to fake. Average the individual %s in the mission and distribute the purple rock reward accordingly. So say in one run everyone deals 20% of the damage and receive 20%, they each get 1000. Let us say another run one person deals 10% and receives 100% but everyone else deals 18% again everyone gets 1000. But if in one run one person deals 60% and receives 60% well they get 60% of the purple rock reward or 3000. Queues requiring interacts (AZA) would allow that to figure into the reward structure as well.
This would encourage PuGs. Even if your top tier you get a bigger chuck of the purple rock. If you are just being carried you get a bit less purple rock but you still get your marks etc. And if you carry your own weight in the group no worries, everyone gets the same!
I can already hear the complaints "I like to be a healer" well first off in PvE that makes me giggle, secondly if you enjoy being the 'support' just keep being selfless when looking at the reward.
Tanks are still covered, they can be useful if they are good at it. Crowd control/debuffing is plenty capable of keeping pace in the damage department when in a group where that would be helpful anyway.
I know it would never be a priority enough to be created but it'd be interesting.
All I know is right now the queues are depressing to participate in most nights.
Why should need to encourage PuGs? On the current system, The ones the benefits from PuGs are leechers and trolls. You cannot bail out on PuG mission without leaver penalty.
There is no way to discipline PuGs who just dont listen or forced them to listen or even bail on them.
That is why the in game community not the game move away from PuGs.
I have a sci ship with all torps and not dmg consoles at all.... I'm not talking about kinetic stuff here.
Look at the stuff that valoreah was talking about.
Phaser beams... with tetryon consoles... Yes I know it sounds dumb. I also know I have helped people in the past that have very much that type of thing going on.
I have talked to people that believed there where diminishing returns on tac consoles so they ran a rainbow with a disruptor/phaser/anti proton consoles... I kid you not I talked to THAT guy at one point.
I think his suggestion isn't all that bad... the only thing I would change would be to not Disallow it but to rather Post a Warning message anytime someone tried to equip something that had little or no reason to be on there ship. (cause yes I know we all laugh... who in there right mind would put phaser consoles on when they had disruptors on there ship... but there out there I have no doubt. )
First, about the diminishing returns on the Tac consoles.../cough...I think it's time we stop denying it, but explain why it isn't the case. Wait, that makes no sense? Don't deny it, but it explain why it isn't the case? Makes no sense! ... But it makes perfect sense...depending on how you look at it.
Bunch of us know there are no diminishing returns on them...you add a 31.9% console, the second adds 31.9% just like the first, and the third, etc, etc, etc.
Take somebody that's looking at their damage as they add the consoles...well, that second one added a smaller percentage than the first and that third added an even smaller percentage.
Instead of trying to deny them what they're seeing right before their very eyes...maybe we could get them to look at the actual amount that each added, yeah? The first one added say 65...the second added 65...the third added 65. Tada...they'll get it at that point. They weren't wrong, but they weren't right...and just because they weren't wrong doesn't mean they weren't right.
It's an awesome perspective discussion to troll folks with, mind you...heh, had a bit of too much fun there in the past.
Okay then, the four things that were posted...
Perhaps I was taking it a little too...literal? And maybe I definitely focused on the third more than the other three...hrmmm...yeah. It was literally the third one...mixed in with some non-literal.
It was definitely the third one, and not really reading/digesting what he was saying. No, if all I've got are cannons - then Beam abilities are stupid. It's the kind of thing you'd expect Cryptic to do on one of their prefab boats for a mission.
It was definitely a PTSD moment sort of thing...don't mix Beams and Cannons nor Torps...BO is garbage, etc, etc, etc. For a wee while there, I was keeping Beam Barrage stacked by using innate Subsystem Targeting and a Rare Subsystem DOFF...so with my limited LCdr Tac I could TS3 some Neuts while also dropping out APB1 and having TT1 available. I wasn't really concerned with my trashmob DPS because of the clump 'n thump that would take place with the GW/TS Neut combo to slaughter stuff. I was more concerned about my single target DPS on Trans, Gateway, Tac Cube sort of stuff.
But yeah, I kind of take back my question there on the wait why/what thing - definitely read that wrong from a trigger word sort of way. I'll leave it there so folks can see I can be a dumbass...
That is actually just somebody who doesn't actually know what diminishing returns means.
You're unusually incoherent here VD, I could barely follow your post. Short on sleep? :P
One of those things where I've had to change my schedule around a bit and shift my sleep patterns. Wasn't as bad when I was younger, but these days - wow, it's hitting me hard.
Then again, my brain's a wee bit fried from this post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22164971&postcount=71
My head feels a little hollow since, lol.
And to be honest, the place I'm staying at the moment - out in the hall smells like 9001 bars got together, so I might be intoxicated off of the fumes.
But it was probably the shift in patterns, cause somehow I lost a day during the week until the girlfriend asked me about watching Grimm last night and I argued for a bit that it was only Thursday. No idea how I lost a day...meh.
edit: About what the "diminishing returns means"; there are actually multiple definitions because it's not solely tied to a single discipline. There's also the simple observational matter is what traps folks.
1 + 1 = 2, 100% increase
2 + 1 = 3, 50% increase
3 + 1 = 4, 33.33% increase
The 1 that was added in each case didn't change. So (a bunch, many, lots of, etc) of us would say there were no diminishing returns, because each time you added 1 you got 1, right?
To the person that's looking at those percentages though...
Adding 1 was a 100% return.
Adding 1 was a 50% return.
Adding 1 was a 33.33% return.
The returns diminished. Diminishing returns.
Not based on any discipline...just based on observation.
Sure, that's not going to be the classical example that a bunch/etc might be familiar with, the adding manpower to an assembly line and a certain point production actually starts going down.
Then again, though, if one thinks about things that way - then even when we use the term diminishing returns in regard to Hull Damage Resistance we'd be doing it wrong. Damage Resistance isn't a type of bell curve where things improve to a point based on what you add and then drop off. Right from the start the returned value is actually diminished. Going from 0 to 1 DRR technically takes you from 0 to 0.99009% DR, not 1% DR. The very first input is diminished. So it's not a case that at some point we'll see a smaller return from each doohickey we add, we start off that way.
I just find that folks that end up arguing about whether it's diminishing returns or not on the Tac consoles tend to end up wasting a bunch of time and it might get nowhere. Rather ask them why they think it is or isn't...then try to explain to them the way it works. They'll get to keep their perceived diminishing returns, but they'll actually understand what they're perceiving, eh?
Basically that the Tac consoles are adding +X% of the TRIBBLE/Mk 0 base damage of the weapon and not continuously adding their percentage, which is a common mistake.
Tooltip says 566.25, they add that +30% Tac console, they expect the tooltip to be 736.125...but it's not going to be that. They add the second Tac console, expecting that 736.125 to become 956.9625...but yeah, it's not going to be that. Not only will they not be seeing that, but after they add that first console taking it from 566.25 to 641.25, a 13.24% increase instead of their expected +30%, and they add in that second console taking them from 641.25 to 716.25, an 11.7% increase instead of their now expected 13.24%...
...yeah, they're going to run into all sorts of problems, eh?
And ugh, I seriously need some sleep - I totally forgot what the Hell I was going to say next.