It's about how you come across and lord it over other people and demand... not ask... demand... that they comply to your vision of competance before they have fun in the game.
See this is it again. "You" as in who? "High DPSers"?
Most of us who do high DPS are going to be in the DPS channels. Most of us in the DPS channel don't care about "other people" because we do private queues and never run into them. If we're in a PUG with you, we're not going to expect anything from you, because if we cared we wouldn't be in a PUG.
See, the "vision of competance" is Cryptic's vision of competence. You need a total of 35k DPS in ISA, based on the hull/shields of enemies and the 15 minute timer.
Someone from the 30k channel is perfectly happy with teammates that do 2k-3k. That's a total of 40k, and if they're in a PUG they expect to be carrying the PUG anyway. So we don't care about you. You're not making us fail.
On the other hand, those who do not do high DPS actually need their teammates to pull their weight. If you only do 7k, you need your teammates to do 7k or you fail.
So who do you think are the ones complaining about weak teammates in queues? The people who don't queue with weaker teammates unless they choose to, or those who rely on their teammates to succeed?
Frankly, I doubt the people who usually make these threads are "high DPSers", but actually those in the middle. The high DPSers are making threads about making videos about "check out how we broke the game again".
Hey, what about those of us who don't have the first clue what our DPS is? I've got a prototype Oddy beamboat, and two BOffs who do FAW, and I can shoot a lot of things on missions, but I'm too busy flying my ship, launching my Scorpions, dropping weapon turrets, popping abilities, etc, to even see how much damage each individual weapon does.
Which STF would Your Majesties graciously permit this humble peasant to attempt?
You can handle normal I'm sure (I'm not saying you need to stay there)... I'm saying start there.
This thread I found last night with a google search... it seems like a pretty recent thread where they where talking about parser programs. (if you do care about knowing your DPS numbers its the only option) Cryptic hasn't given us an in game parser. It was suggested much earlier in this thread that adding a Cryptic in game parser would be one positive step... giving people real feedback from the first time they undock as a level 1 red shirt.
In most games before I jump into a dungeon I have never played I will simply google it... so I understand the mechanics. In most MMOs dungeons are team based mission that people either group up for or speed join in something like Cryptics PvE Que.
The STFs are STOs dungeon content. So going in you have to understand the game play mechanics.
Read and watch the Elite que verison info... then start with normal. If you have issues with the normal its ok to ask for help or try and read up on other builds and do your own reaserch. If you run it a few times and beat it down... by all means try out an advanced... and do the same routine. Advanced is a big jump from normal... but at least after doing normal a few times you have an understanding of what you need to do to complete the game.
Except they do it in Advanced too, and way too often. You show up with an 8-10k ship (I happen to LIKE when the mission takes 10 minutes, and I don't like flying aggressively or micromanaging my CDs), you get 3 more in that range and one guy in a 30k+ boat. The 30k annihilates everything before some of the team is even in position, TRIBBLE people out for taking too long or their 'low DPS' due to half the targets being already dead or snide remarks about the mission duration when its all done. Everyone brought a perfectly adequate ship, but because it wasn't done The Right Way the whole thing ends up a waste of everyone's time, rewards earned but zip for enjoyment. I don't even bother with STFs any more because half of them end up with That Guy in them even when trying to just go to the queues to get away from him. Its a hell of a lot more prevalent than just a couple of trolls on Normal.
"Except" nothing. You haven't invalidated or countered my point in any way.
It's still some TRIBBLE in a 30k going into a PUG, where you shouldn't expect people to do 30k.
Again, there are over two thousand people who fall under the term "high DPSer" (according to the definition in the post I was referring to), and somehow it's acceptable to characterize us (the vast majority of whom only do premades on the DPS channels) all as aholes because of some trolls hitting PUGs.
This is most egregious because the majority of those who do high DPS and post in these forums are not those aholes trolling in-game, but usually offer information and advice.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Hey, what about those of us who don't have the first clue what our DPS is? I've got a prototype Oddy beamboat, and two BOffs who do FAW, and I can shoot a lot of things on missions, but I'm too busy flying my ship, launching my Scorpions, dropping weapon turrets, popping abilities, etc, to even see how much damage each individual weapon does.
Which STF would Your Majesties graciously permit this humble peasant to attempt?
None. Their Majesties require a minimum parse of 10k or they hate you.
Which is dumb, because I can hit 10k on my scimitard with an intentionally gimped build. And I only rarely parse, for the same reasons as you (tho it's elite drones and scorps from the Vault for me).
See this is it again. "You" as in who? "High DPSers"?
Most of us who do high DPS are going to be in the DPS channels. Most of us in the DPS channel don't care about "other people" because we do private queues and never run into them. If we're in a PUG with you, we're not going to expect anything from you, because if we cared we wouldn't be in a PUG.
See, the "vision of competance" is Cryptic's vision of competence. You need a total of 35k DPS in ISA, based on the hull/shields of enemies and the 15 minute timer.
Someone from the 30k channel is perfectly happy with teammates that do 2k-3k. That's a total of 40k, and if they're in a PUG they expect to be carrying the PUG anyway. So we don't care about you. You're not making us fail.
On the other hand, those who do not do high DPS actually need their teammates to pull their weight. If you only do 7k, you need your teammates to do 7k or you fail.
So who do you think are the ones complaining about weak teammates in queues? The people who don't queue with weaker teammates unless they choose to, or those who rely on their teammates to succeed?
Frankly, I doubt the people who usually make these threads are "high DPSers", but actually those in the middle. The high DPSers are making threads about making videos about "check out how we broke the game again".
it isnt hard to get 5-10k dps its in fact MUCH harder to get 1.5k if your doing less than 1.5k and your not an rp player THEN IN FACT your the troll.
lets be honest if each beam is doing 700-1200dps you should technically not do less than 5-7k and thats just the facts if that hurts your feeling im sorry math is math and cryptic is to blame.
So who do you think are the ones complaining about weak teammates in queues? The people who don't queue with weaker teammates unless they choose to, or those who rely on their teammates to succeed?
Frankly, I doubt the people who usually make these threads are "high DPSers", but actually those in the middle. The high DPSers are making threads about making videos about "check out how we broke the game again".
Well believe it or not we don't all want to run around in our 1-2 super geared toons. I have 20+ alts and I barely play any of them anymore cause Cryptic has declared war on alts. Still I have plenty of 10-15k DPS alts... I admit it, and now and then I will take them out. There not pulling 30 no cause your right if they where I wouldn't fail unless I was being trolled. lol
At around 15k though ya I do need a team to at least pull a bit of weight.
Quing with a toon like that yes you would expect the 4 people with you could average 5k.
See this is it again. "You" as in who? "High DPSers"?
Most of us who do high DPS are going to be in the DPS channels. Most of us in the DPS channel don't care about "other people" because we do private queues and never run into them. If we're in a PUG with you, we're not going to expect anything from you, because if we cared we wouldn't be in a PUG.
See, the "vision of competance" is Cryptic's vision of competence. You need a total of 35k DPS in ISA, based on the hull/shields of enemies and the 15 minute timer.
Someone from the 30k channel is perfectly happy with teammates that do 2k-3k. That's a total of 40k, and if they're in a PUG they expect to be carrying the PUG anyway. So we don't care about you. You're not making us fail.
On the other hand, those who do not do high DPS actually need their teammates to pull their weight. If you only do 7k, you need your teammates to do 7k or you fail.
So who do you think are the ones complaining about weak teammates in queues? The people who don't queue with weaker teammates unless they choose to, or those who rely on their teammates to succeed?
Frankly, I doubt the people who usually make these threads are "high DPSers", but actually those in the middle. The high DPSers are making threads about making videos about "check out how we broke the game again".
^^ Though I'd call myself far from a high DPS-er, I can confirm the things you say. In the DPS channels nobody is b*tching about fellow players: there are no expectations, as you simply already know your team mates qualified for the channel you're in to begin with. And, apart from the occassional but rare wfp-fubar (like ppl advancing too much, so their deployed pets will already engage the spheres), I have yet to see anyone distressed/obsessed about the performance of others. When I do, say, 36k in the 30k channel, no one is gonna give me a hard time about it, even when team mates sometimes do 74k or something: they know I simply fulfilled the requirement, and never pretended to be able to pull off more (if I had I had been in a higher channel).
And yes, I've carried many a csa PUG or something, with ppl sometimes doing as little as 5k. Who cares, though?! I know I'm not gonna let it fail anyway. And should it perchance fail, after all, I wouldn't blame anyone: I knew I was PUG-ing, and know none of these other people guaranteed any form of minimum performance.
Okay okay, yes, the characters are not doing high DPS. :P
My reasoning stands though, a lot of people are like "you DPSers can fork off, we don't affect you" but these threads only ever spawn because someone was affected and got pissed off.
Okay okay, yes, the characters are not doing high DPS. :P
My reasoning stands though, a lot of people are like "you DPSers can fork off, we don't affect you" but these threads only ever spawn because someone was affected and got pissed off.
It's either "Advanced is too hard" or "Stop telling me how to play!"
There's a pattern there, somewhere. I'm sure of it.
I'd say this run would've been FUBAR without the scimitar. (Infact it almost did fail on the left transformer)
So darkjeff is right. :cool:
Ugh, that was painful...that's along the lines of what I mean when I say chasing butterflies. I could only watch so much. Gens down, should be nailing the Trans, and that one guy was unloading everything he had into that Sphere.
yea i know whatcha mean virus thats what seems to be the major failpoint right there is folks shoot the spheres and ignor the trans even after i have gravwelled the nanites if they dont focus fire on that trans no matter what i do i wont be able to help them.
Ugh, that was painful...that's along the lines of what I mean when I say chasing butterflies. I could only watch so much. Gens down, should be nailing the Trans, and that one guy was unloading everything he had into that Sphere.
I don't even bother with STFs any more because half of them end up with That Guy in them even when trying to just go to the queues to get away from him.
You can't just ignore him? It's an extremely easy feature to use.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I recently entered a Borg STF for the first time ever and didn't really understand what I should do. I was killing stuff but another player just yelled at me and called me a noob.
If you want better players in the game, help them, or keep your piehole closed.
Ugh, that was painful...that's along the lines of what I mean when I say chasing butterflies. I could only watch so much. Gens down, should be nailing the Trans, and that one guy was unloading everything he had into that Sphere.
Common issue for fail 101 right there.
Simple logic, those people do not know wth they are doing or, are simply trolling!
Do we ALL go and hide in STF channels of one type or another and leave the ques to the true new players who will be nothing but trolled by the handful of actual trolls that only que to fail. (poor them)
Or do we make an issue of it... and hope that perhaps Cryptic adds some requirements to que, or adds some training missions that help people understand what there ships can do and what roles they can be effective in.
How do you deal with a nuisance in the chat channels? Do you chew them out, egg them on, keep it going, or do you just put them on ignore (or as some do, leave the channel). Reporting them may not do anything to them depending on if they're violating ToS/EULA, but if you don't like what they're saying, don't listen.
So if you don't like running with bad players that show up in open teams, DON'T JOIN OPEN TEAMS.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
You can't just ignore him? It's an extremely easy feature to use.
Its not one specific person, its a mindset that I keep running into. "That Guy" is shorthand for that kind of player that is impatient, aggressive, loudly talks about themselves, and always seems to be a high DPSer and eager to make sure everyone knows it. If it were one guy it'd just be some TRIBBLE, or a couple of players because there are jerks everywhere especially online. But when its something I encounter over and over and over to the point where I've mostly given up on queued missions, it makes me start to associate a certain playstyle with a certain attitude.
The OP's comments are repugnant. The elitism cires are just as bad. But there's an undercurrent of truth through all of it.
Pugging anything, and formerly active public channels are not worth using to create games.
In a game where CD have been increased, as well as difficulty while lowering rewards, I no longer have the time or patience for players who think they know what they are doing.
A good example - PublicEliteSTF has always been a fun channel - but it's become a un-moderated mess:
1.) Trolls who purposely deep-six advanced missions on purpose. One had the gall to suggest the more he could make them fail, the greater the likelihood the developers would make them easier. I experienced them 5 times today on the same missions. Ignoring them doesn't work, and Cryptic has all but given up on player moderation.
2.) Zero moderation by the channel owner. He's not even playing the game anymore.
It's become the Lord of the Flies.
There are other channels that require admittance based on at least knowing what to do. People who take the time to read, learn and improve. This isn't about elitism. It's about finishing missions. I don't mind helping people (fleetmates, people who ask to learn). But I'm tired of "I'm sorry - but we could let probes go through before", or - "geez I didn't know a wrong answer would end the mission...tee hee, my bad..."
If you don't like the caliber of player you're stuck with, change it up. I did.
And regardless of whatever intent you may have by trying to be "helpful" and "advise" us lesser-stat players of how to "be better" (i.e. BE LIKE YOU), you come off as an TRIBBLE$hole.
So do you.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
But when its something I encounter over and over and over to the point where I've mostly given up on queued missions, it makes me start to associate a certain playstyle with a certain attitude.
That's exactly how I feel about the mouthbreathers who expect to always be carried, and whine about how you can't tell them how to play.
The only difference between the two groups is that one is actively working to better themselves, and it ain't the casuals.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
That's exactly how I feel about the mouthbreathers who expect to always be carried, and whine about how you can't tell them how to play.
The only difference between the two groups is that one is actively working to better themselves, and it ain't the casuals.
You realize this is a game, right? The point of a game is to have fun. This isn't an organized tournament. There's no prizes here. There's no high score list. There's not even an end. At no point do you see "The End, you win!". In 5 years nobody is going to go "Hey, remember him. He did 200k DPS in ISA. He was a god among men.". Seriously, stop being a self righteous *******. This may come as a complete shock to you, but some people have fun regardless of how they are doing. I'm a hardcore strategy gamer and I had this friend back in high school that had more fun losing than any man I know. I would sit there and watch him laughing his TRIBBLE off as his base got destroyed because of something silly. People like you are far too up tight about this game. Somebody mentioned chess masters previously. Here's the difference. They are playing in organized tournaments. Do you think they go down to their local park or game store, pull out a board, then give everybody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level? Do you think the players on the World Series of Poker go down to their local casino and give Joe Nobody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level?
Some of you have argued "you'd be getting way better payoffs doing normal than playing advanced and losing". This may come as a shock, but some people aren't doing it for the marks, they are doing it because it provided more enjoyment or more of a challenge than a regular mission. I'm sitting on 4k Nuke marks right now and I've already got the space set, both ground sets, 2 sets of elite widows, and some reprogrammable drones. Yet, I'm still playing Crystalline Entity every day. Why? Because I enjoy that mission.
I've played organized, paid, tournaments for games before. You know what? Even then you get players who suck at the game. I've seen players where you can tell even before the match starts they are out of their league. But, hey, if they are still having fun, more power to them.
There's also the fact this is a Star Trek game. That means there's a lot of people playing because it's Star Trek, not because they are gamers. I have a friend who refuses to fly anything other than a Galaxy because he loves TNG. That's his choice. I let him know he's limiting his options but if that's what's fun for him, more power to it.
I said before, I understand the frustration of getting paired with players who aren't carrying their weight. However, some of you seem to have forgotten you are playing open, public game. This isn't a closed tournament or organized event. You aren't playing at the All-Star Game, you're playing backyard pickup games. You make due with what you get. If you want a higher caliber player you should be playing in organized teams. It's that simple.
While I agree, in principal, that people should exercise some judgement before joining a mission marked as "Advanced" or "Elite", some people enjoy a challenge even if it means losing. As several people mentioned before, you can blow through "Normal" and still be "unfit" for an "Advanced" or "Elite". If "normal" is too easy, I'm going to play "advanced", regardless of the outcome.
How many sports teams do you see go undefeated? What some of you are expecting is a team of Michael Jordan's for every STF you do. That's simply unrealistic. Even the best teams have bench warmers and even the best teams lose some times.
If I was nice this thread would have died. At least I got your attention.
As far as me picking who is helpful and who is not. Yep I was doing that completely. Bottom line is the Adv/Elite versions of the pve ques have mission goals and requirements. They are not spin around willy nilly and space and dance like a special snowflake... win a gold ribbon.
Its like saying Lets sit down and play a game of Monopoly... but throw out that rule book there. This is how I would like to play today cause I wanna do what I wanna do.
Like it or not the STFS have rules...it has objectives it has rules it has a timer. Its a no different then sitting down with ANOTHER HUMAN being and playing a board game. When you do that you can't sit down and do what ever the heck you like. You have to play by the rules. Clearly Cryptic does a poor job of making sure people sitting down at the table understand the rules.
Your right my blaming a ton of players for there incompetence was a bit jerkish of me no doubt. At least in this case cause clearly Cryptic does a poor job of laying out the rules for everyone. I naively assumed the rules where clear to everyone.... I thought a timer, obvious fail conditions, and missions that aren't all the much changed from the old ones everyone seemed to have down pat. I thought those things made the rules obvious. Clearly they do not, cause far to many people have been arguing that they can "play there way"... or that "Cryptic didn't write no rules".
The STFs are TEAM content... and yes you have to play it in a way that can accomplish the GAMES goals. Just like you won't sit down with me to play Monopoly and break out D&D Dice, or move your thimble backwards around the board.
In any event you are right I was flippant in my OP... sorry. At least where all talking about the issue.
In direct reply (warning, I'm verbose)...
Yes, it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. I've gotten snarky in my posts on this thread as well, and that derives from the snarkiness of the first post and others and so on. While you may or may not have intended to be flippant in the process of being "helpful", it came off that way and now the ball has been picked up and fielded on both sides in a highly polarized issue (that isn't going to go away anymore than it has in years past in this and other similar games).
I can understand the frustration of that "one guy" TRIBBLE the team. Had my share, and not necessarily in this game or in STFs/Heroics/Raids/whatever. Every game has them and there's no stopping them because, if they really are "out to troll you", they'll find a way. Cryptic could put stopgap measures in place all day long but it still won't stop a player out to grief others and they can't ban them if they don't violate ToS or EULA.
Flipside, I can also understand the frustration of that "one guy" that thinks he's all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips 'cause his mod/meter/whatever says so. He can just the same ruin everyone's good time by trolling in the opposite direction and, again, had my share. Cryptic put a lot of work into missions, storylines, scenery, cinematics, etc. and part of this game (less and less as you go up the difficulty, but...) doesn't require speed runs and max power. Stop and smell the roses occasionally. So when you have a team in a PUG on a mission that's not so blasted critical to go warp speed for max score but that "one guy" has his heart set on making the boards, he ruins it for everyone else. No matter what his stats are, he's dragging everyone else "down" in the enjoyment factor.
Different people have different motivations for playing this game, what they want to get out of it, how they want to play it, is it about numbers or RP or just TRIBBLE around and having fun to "get away from it all". Point is, we all electively choose to play this game in the manner in which we play it. No one puts a gun to our heads to login (if you do, you have worse issues than this). And there's always going to be players that play well and players that play poorly. Of both sides, there are going to be some that are open-minded and some that just don't give a damn.
Are you really going to let them ruin your good time by going back to them if you just know they're going to be there to torment you in an open group? Using your Monopoly analogy, why continue sitting down at the table where you know a crappy player sits? Change to another table. The Monopoly game is still there, and maybe there are different, "better" players that sit there as well and are willing to play by the rules you want to play by. I'm not saying don't STF, but if you know public queues are populated with trolls, why keep going back? Some players just aren't going to take your advice, so why waste your game time on them?
Where it infuriated me was begging help from Cryptic to limit everyone based on your personal frustrations. Whatever you typed, it came off as "everyone but me is stupid", "my way or the highway", and "I know better than anyone else". It was far too generalized and inflammatory to avoid ruffling more feathers than you intended. Yah, it got our attention, but suddenly we're not listening to the positive ideas you had (teach poor players how to improve if they're willing to learn). It was "TRIBBLE everyone that doesn't fit into my expectations". Others can say the same about you just as easily, doesn't make it right.
I don't play STFs (unless in isolated one-shot cases like for the Borg BOff or something), I tend to solo or team with fleet/friends, and I doubt we've ever been teamed in any way or me with anyone else in this thread. How I choose to play does not affect you in any way. But you want to limit my gameplay because you think everyone (including me by default) is stupid and not worthy? Oh Hell no!
So you get where we are now...
And just because your method or build works for you and gets you the stats you find acceptable doesn't mean it's the "right" way or the "only" way, as others have demonstrated in this thread (the kick-TRIBBLE CC Nebula from Hell for instance...nice, thought of trying something similar myself, but I love my Oddy tank too much).
Hints, tips, and tricks, tutorials and understandable guides (I still like that Foundry idea) for the more complex mechanics of the game ('cause the existing tutorial doesn't tell you Jack Squat and only experience prepares you for STFs, I agree) would be helpful...for those that will accept it.
For those that don't, just sigh and walk away, 'cause they're a fungus without a cure.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Comments
those who are doing the least can improve just by getting their stuff upgraded and using common since.
See this is it again. "You" as in who? "High DPSers"?
Most of us who do high DPS are going to be in the DPS channels. Most of us in the DPS channel don't care about "other people" because we do private queues and never run into them. If we're in a PUG with you, we're not going to expect anything from you, because if we cared we wouldn't be in a PUG.
See, the "vision of competance" is Cryptic's vision of competence. You need a total of 35k DPS in ISA, based on the hull/shields of enemies and the 15 minute timer.
Someone from the 30k channel is perfectly happy with teammates that do 2k-3k. That's a total of 40k, and if they're in a PUG they expect to be carrying the PUG anyway. So we don't care about you. You're not making us fail.
On the other hand, those who do not do high DPS actually need their teammates to pull their weight. If you only do 7k, you need your teammates to do 7k or you fail.
So who do you think are the ones complaining about weak teammates in queues? The people who don't queue with weaker teammates unless they choose to, or those who rely on their teammates to succeed?
Frankly, I doubt the people who usually make these threads are "high DPSers", but actually those in the middle. The high DPSers are making threads about making videos about "check out how we broke the game again".
You can handle normal I'm sure (I'm not saying you need to stay there)... I'm saying start there.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1345951
This thread I found last night with a google search... it seems like a pretty recent thread where they where talking about parser programs. (if you do care about knowing your DPS numbers its the only option) Cryptic hasn't given us an in game parser. It was suggested much earlier in this thread that adding a Cryptic in game parser would be one positive step... giving people real feedback from the first time they undock as a level 1 red shirt.
In most games before I jump into a dungeon I have never played I will simply google it... so I understand the mechanics. In most MMOs dungeons are team based mission that people either group up for or speed join in something like Cryptics PvE Que.
The STFs are STOs dungeon content. So going in you have to understand the game play mechanics.
Infected space is the most popular "simple" stf.
Not my guides but I found this with a quick google.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Infected:_The_Conduit/Walkthrough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Pyvq5TmXs
Read and watch the Elite que verison info... then start with normal. If you have issues with the normal its ok to ask for help or try and read up on other builds and do your own reaserch. If you run it a few times and beat it down... by all means try out an advanced... and do the same routine. Advanced is a big jump from normal... but at least after doing normal a few times you have an understanding of what you need to do to complete the game.
"Except" nothing. You haven't invalidated or countered my point in any way.
It's still some TRIBBLE in a 30k going into a PUG, where you shouldn't expect people to do 30k.
Again, there are over two thousand people who fall under the term "high DPSer" (according to the definition in the post I was referring to), and somehow it's acceptable to characterize us (the vast majority of whom only do premades on the DPS channels) all as aholes because of some trolls hitting PUGs.
This is most egregious because the majority of those who do high DPS and post in these forums are not those aholes trolling in-game, but usually offer information and advice.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
None. Their Majesties require a minimum parse of 10k or they hate you.
Which is dumb, because I can hit 10k on my scimitard with an intentionally gimped build. And I only rarely parse, for the same reasons as you (tho it's elite drones and scorps from the Vault for me).
You could look at the league table.
lets be honest if each beam is doing 700-1200dps you should technically not do less than 5-7k and thats just the facts if that hurts your feeling im sorry math is math and cryptic is to blame.
Well believe it or not we don't all want to run around in our 1-2 super geared toons. I have 20+ alts and I barely play any of them anymore cause Cryptic has declared war on alts. Still I have plenty of 10-15k DPS alts... I admit it, and now and then I will take them out. There not pulling 30 no cause your right if they where I wouldn't fail unless I was being trolled. lol
At around 15k though ya I do need a team to at least pull a bit of weight.
Quing with a toon like that yes you would expect the 4 people with you could average 5k.
^^ Though I'd call myself far from a high DPS-er, I can confirm the things you say. In the DPS channels nobody is b*tching about fellow players: there are no expectations, as you simply already know your team mates qualified for the channel you're in to begin with. And, apart from the occassional but rare wfp-fubar (like ppl advancing too much, so their deployed pets will already engage the spheres), I have yet to see anyone distressed/obsessed about the performance of others. When I do, say, 36k in the 30k channel, no one is gonna give me a hard time about it, even when team mates sometimes do 74k or something: they know I simply fulfilled the requirement, and never pretended to be able to pull off more (if I had I had been in a higher channel).
And yes, I've carried many a csa PUG or something, with ppl sometimes doing as little as 5k. Who cares, though?! I know I'm not gonna let it fail anyway. And should it perchance fail, after all, I wouldn't blame anyone: I knew I was PUG-ing, and know none of these other people guaranteed any form of minimum performance.
My reasoning stands though, a lot of people are like "you DPSers can fork off, we don't affect you" but these threads only ever spawn because someone was affected and got pissed off.
What happens when a DPS-er tank goes pugging.
I'd say this run would've been FUBAR without the scimitar. (Infact it almost did fail on the left transformer)
So darkjeff is right. :cool:
It's either "Advanced is too hard" or "Stop telling me how to play!"
There's a pattern there, somewhere. I'm sure of it.
Check it out...
...from the latest Tribble notes.
Ugh, that was painful...that's along the lines of what I mean when I say chasing butterflies. I could only watch so much. Gens down, should be nailing the Trans, and that one guy was unloading everything he had into that Sphere.
@4:10
"Oh hey guys, lets attack these spheres coming out of the gate while we leave Vel to solo the right side."
#Justpuggingthings
They troll lowbies with asinine "elitism," they troll RPers with disco balls, and they troll hardcore players with low DPS builds.
I can solo any ANRN spawn in reasonable time (under 30s barring some bad combination of weapon disables and getting trapped in a web).
I struggle to clear even the easiest of spawns in ANRA.
You can't just ignore him? It's an extremely easy feature to use.
Common issue for fail 101 right there.
Simple logic, those people do not know wth they are doing or, are simply trolling!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
No, "you" as in the clich
So if you don't like running with bad players that show up in open teams, DON'T JOIN OPEN TEAMS.
Its not one specific person, its a mindset that I keep running into. "That Guy" is shorthand for that kind of player that is impatient, aggressive, loudly talks about themselves, and always seems to be a high DPSer and eager to make sure everyone knows it. If it were one guy it'd just be some TRIBBLE, or a couple of players because there are jerks everywhere especially online. But when its something I encounter over and over and over to the point where I've mostly given up on queued missions, it makes me start to associate a certain playstyle with a certain attitude.
It's now on the notes for tomorrow's holodeck also.
Pugging anything, and formerly active public channels are not worth using to create games.
In a game where CD have been increased, as well as difficulty while lowering rewards, I no longer have the time or patience for players who think they know what they are doing.
A good example - PublicEliteSTF has always been a fun channel - but it's become a un-moderated mess:
1.) Trolls who purposely deep-six advanced missions on purpose. One had the gall to suggest the more he could make them fail, the greater the likelihood the developers would make them easier. I experienced them 5 times today on the same missions. Ignoring them doesn't work, and Cryptic has all but given up on player moderation.
2.) Zero moderation by the channel owner. He's not even playing the game anymore.
It's become the Lord of the Flies.
There are other channels that require admittance based on at least knowing what to do. People who take the time to read, learn and improve. This isn't about elitism. It's about finishing missions. I don't mind helping people (fleetmates, people who ask to learn). But I'm tired of "I'm sorry - but we could let probes go through before", or - "geez I didn't know a wrong answer would end the mission...tee hee, my bad..."
If you don't like the caliber of player you're stuck with, change it up. I did.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
The only difference between the two groups is that one is actively working to better themselves, and it ain't the casuals.
You realize this is a game, right? The point of a game is to have fun. This isn't an organized tournament. There's no prizes here. There's no high score list. There's not even an end. At no point do you see "The End, you win!". In 5 years nobody is going to go "Hey, remember him. He did 200k DPS in ISA. He was a god among men.". Seriously, stop being a self righteous *******. This may come as a complete shock to you, but some people have fun regardless of how they are doing. I'm a hardcore strategy gamer and I had this friend back in high school that had more fun losing than any man I know. I would sit there and watch him laughing his TRIBBLE off as his base got destroyed because of something silly. People like you are far too up tight about this game. Somebody mentioned chess masters previously. Here's the difference. They are playing in organized tournaments. Do you think they go down to their local park or game store, pull out a board, then give everybody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level? Do you think the players on the World Series of Poker go down to their local casino and give Joe Nobody TRIBBLE about not playing at their level?
Some of you have argued "you'd be getting way better payoffs doing normal than playing advanced and losing". This may come as a shock, but some people aren't doing it for the marks, they are doing it because it provided more enjoyment or more of a challenge than a regular mission. I'm sitting on 4k Nuke marks right now and I've already got the space set, both ground sets, 2 sets of elite widows, and some reprogrammable drones. Yet, I'm still playing Crystalline Entity every day. Why? Because I enjoy that mission.
I've played organized, paid, tournaments for games before. You know what? Even then you get players who suck at the game. I've seen players where you can tell even before the match starts they are out of their league. But, hey, if they are still having fun, more power to them.
There's also the fact this is a Star Trek game. That means there's a lot of people playing because it's Star Trek, not because they are gamers. I have a friend who refuses to fly anything other than a Galaxy because he loves TNG. That's his choice. I let him know he's limiting his options but if that's what's fun for him, more power to it.
I said before, I understand the frustration of getting paired with players who aren't carrying their weight. However, some of you seem to have forgotten you are playing open, public game. This isn't a closed tournament or organized event. You aren't playing at the All-Star Game, you're playing backyard pickup games. You make due with what you get. If you want a higher caliber player you should be playing in organized teams. It's that simple.
While I agree, in principal, that people should exercise some judgement before joining a mission marked as "Advanced" or "Elite", some people enjoy a challenge even if it means losing. As several people mentioned before, you can blow through "Normal" and still be "unfit" for an "Advanced" or "Elite". If "normal" is too easy, I'm going to play "advanced", regardless of the outcome.
How many sports teams do you see go undefeated? What some of you are expecting is a team of Michael Jordan's for every STF you do. That's simply unrealistic. Even the best teams have bench warmers and even the best teams lose some times.
Yes, it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. I've gotten snarky in my posts on this thread as well, and that derives from the snarkiness of the first post and others and so on. While you may or may not have intended to be flippant in the process of being "helpful", it came off that way and now the ball has been picked up and fielded on both sides in a highly polarized issue (that isn't going to go away anymore than it has in years past in this and other similar games).
I can understand the frustration of that "one guy" TRIBBLE the team. Had my share, and not necessarily in this game or in STFs/Heroics/Raids/whatever. Every game has them and there's no stopping them because, if they really are "out to troll you", they'll find a way. Cryptic could put stopgap measures in place all day long but it still won't stop a player out to grief others and they can't ban them if they don't violate ToS or EULA.
Flipside, I can also understand the frustration of that "one guy" that thinks he's all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips 'cause his mod/meter/whatever says so. He can just the same ruin everyone's good time by trolling in the opposite direction and, again, had my share. Cryptic put a lot of work into missions, storylines, scenery, cinematics, etc. and part of this game (less and less as you go up the difficulty, but...) doesn't require speed runs and max power. Stop and smell the roses occasionally. So when you have a team in a PUG on a mission that's not so blasted critical to go warp speed for max score but that "one guy" has his heart set on making the boards, he ruins it for everyone else. No matter what his stats are, he's dragging everyone else "down" in the enjoyment factor.
Different people have different motivations for playing this game, what they want to get out of it, how they want to play it, is it about numbers or RP or just TRIBBLE around and having fun to "get away from it all". Point is, we all electively choose to play this game in the manner in which we play it. No one puts a gun to our heads to login (if you do, you have worse issues than this). And there's always going to be players that play well and players that play poorly. Of both sides, there are going to be some that are open-minded and some that just don't give a damn.
Are you really going to let them ruin your good time by going back to them if you just know they're going to be there to torment you in an open group? Using your Monopoly analogy, why continue sitting down at the table where you know a crappy player sits? Change to another table. The Monopoly game is still there, and maybe there are different, "better" players that sit there as well and are willing to play by the rules you want to play by. I'm not saying don't STF, but if you know public queues are populated with trolls, why keep going back? Some players just aren't going to take your advice, so why waste your game time on them?
Where it infuriated me was begging help from Cryptic to limit everyone based on your personal frustrations. Whatever you typed, it came off as "everyone but me is stupid", "my way or the highway", and "I know better than anyone else". It was far too generalized and inflammatory to avoid ruffling more feathers than you intended. Yah, it got our attention, but suddenly we're not listening to the positive ideas you had (teach poor players how to improve if they're willing to learn). It was "TRIBBLE everyone that doesn't fit into my expectations". Others can say the same about you just as easily, doesn't make it right.
I don't play STFs (unless in isolated one-shot cases like for the Borg BOff or something), I tend to solo or team with fleet/friends, and I doubt we've ever been teamed in any way or me with anyone else in this thread. How I choose to play does not affect you in any way. But you want to limit my gameplay because you think everyone (including me by default) is stupid and not worthy? Oh Hell no!
So you get where we are now...
And just because your method or build works for you and gets you the stats you find acceptable doesn't mean it's the "right" way or the "only" way, as others have demonstrated in this thread (the kick-TRIBBLE CC Nebula from Hell for instance...nice, thought of trying something similar myself, but I love my Oddy tank too much).
Hints, tips, and tricks, tutorials and understandable guides (I still like that Foundry idea) for the more complex mechanics of the game ('cause the existing tutorial doesn't tell you Jack Squat and only experience prepares you for STFs, I agree) would be helpful...for those that will accept it.
For those that don't, just sigh and walk away, 'cause they're a fungus without a cure.