the dev team in first place should be open for changes
over the past weeks ive read hundreds of good suggestions... and they ALL got ignored
but then again... they made it clear.... they do the decisions and we as customers dont have a say at all.
We try to cater our product to our consumers. However, each of you consumers has the absolute right, at any given moment, to choose whether or not to continue using our product.
We will then weigh all of that info, along with anything else that is pertinent to the issue, and make our own choices that WE feel are in the best interest of the game.
If you disagree with our choices, please let us know. If you severely disagree with our choices, you are free to stop using our product at any time.
We are not taking it out of proportion, We are taking it exactly 3% out of proportion... Holy hell....
I think people are taking Taco's statement a little out of proportion (read: strawman).
I believe Taco merely means to say, the Dev team are open to suggestions, but they won't plead for you to stay. You have the right to leave at any time.
He made it very clear there... WE do not make the decisions. THEY (The Developers do) Good lord, he really does not want us here. I hope he redacts it. I hope he does. OMG this is bad. We cant take it any other way.
I think people are taking Taco's statement a little out of proportion (read: strawman).
I believe Taco merely means to say, the Dev team are open to suggestions, but they won't plead for you to stay. You have the right to leave at any time.
That was obvious to me the moment I returned... and it's because of their perceived frustrations clouding their judgement
When the devs say they want to be civil, they mean it as well as a business can - but because of all the players' previous interactions coloring their views, they don't believe them for a second when they should, if for no other reason than to move forward
It's a sad, sad situation, and it's not purely the developer's who need to get their act together... at the very least, many need to vent elsewhere before approaching the issue as it needs to be approached (reasonably)
We are not taking it out of proportion, We are taking it exactly 3% out of proportion... Holy hell....
He made it very clear there... WE do not make the decisions. THEY (The Developers do) Good lord, he really does not want us here. I hope he redacts it. I hope he does. OMG this is bad. We cant take it any other way.
If Taco wanted us out of here, he would have said so, blunt and clear - he's that kind of guy. But he did not; he said the obvious, that if you want to leave, you can, but it does not mean he wants you to or not <- something which has been true of any MMO since they existed
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
It's a sad, sad situation, and it's not purely the developer's who need to get their act together... at the very least, many need to vent elsewhere before approaching the issue as it needs to be approached (reasonably)
If Taco wanted us out of here, he would have said so, blunt and clear - he's that kind of guy. But he did not; he said the obvious, that if you want to leave, you can, but it does not mean he wants you to or not
I could not agree with your more, there is a lot of Anger here. But his statements are not Clouded at all. He states very clearly that he does not intend to change things based on what we decide. He also states very clearly that we are "Free to leave" that while not telling us to GTFO, is almost the same thing. He needs to redact that... BAD. It is telling us to get another game to complain about. Many will, and many other companies are more then happy to take our disposable income. Cryptic needs to realize, yes we are needy, yes we are demanding and often times irritating. But they are selling a product. If they want people to stay, they need to make that clear. Indifference from a buisness standpoint is a complete lack of compassion.
He made it very clear there... WE do not make the decisions. THEY (The Developers do) Good lord, he really does not want us here. I hope he redacts it. I hope he does. OMG this is bad. We cant take it any other way.
Now you're just being silly. Just because Taco spelled it out, one day, that, while they're ready to entertain suggestions, ultimately they're the ones calling the shots, does not mean they want us gone -- not even when he said that, if you really can't live with Cryptic's decisions, you're free to leave. He was just being factual.
/me, ready to be called a Cryptic-apologist now. :P
Are people seriously targeting Taco at this point?
Have we all gone mad?
This door swings both ways, im certain the development team is aware of that, also certain that some forum users are aware of that.
Taco I just want to say thank you for such an amazing nearly accurate as possible interior for the intrepid ( I don't have it since I only want the interior not the ship)
Also thank you for all your hard work in the scenery for this game, it shows.
And last but not least, thank you for being the dev that I can totally give mad props and respect for keeping a stiff upper chin and not going all crazy to your customers/fans.
If Taco wanted us out of here, he would have said so, blunt and clear - he's that kind of guy. But he did not; he said the obvious, that if you want to leave, you can, but it does not mean he wants you to or not <- something which has been true of any MMO since they existed
No, he just said if you don't like what he decides, don't let the door hit you in the TRIBBLE on the way out.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
what makes it so funny is that the mere forumers are the ones that seem to still be sticking around.
cryptic may not plead for people to stay today, but the sure will eventually.
Taco can't say "STAY". He has no legally binding power to force us to stay.
Taco can't say "GO". He also has no legally binding power to force us to leave.
So he answers with "Stay if you want to, leave if you really want to". It makes sense.\
Now, as for "We have the power to make the decisions", they legally do. Cryptic is in charge of the development of the game, CBS/PWE aside. The game wasn't funded by Kickstarter, so the players really have no control over the game's development. That being said, it's nice when they take our advice into consideration.
Does this mean players should be satisfied with the Devs' work? Not at all. Devs screwed up this time, as they have in the past. They are human, just like us. What we can do is advocate for a change in leadership, but I personally don't think they will honor that request.
So things stay as they always have. Devs are in control of the game, and all we can hope for is that they listen to our advice. (Two heads are better than one?)
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Now you're just being silly. Just because Taco spelled it out, one day, that, while they're ready to entertain suggestions, ultimately they're the ones calling the shots, does not mean they want us gone -- not even when he said that, if you really can't live with Cryptic's decisions, you're free to leave. He was just being factual.
/me, ready to be called a Cryptic-apologist now. :P
ok, Cryptic apologist. Until he or another representative of Cryptic takes that back. It stands on its own. They told us we are free to leave. We all know how to take that. It makes people more angry then happy. I will work on a Re-Wording of that. Let me show you how I would handle such things.
I could not agree with your more, there is a lot of Anger here. But his statements are not Clouded at all. He states very clearly that he does not intend to change things based on what we decide. He also states very clearly that we are "Free to leave" that while not telling us to GTFO, is almost the same thing. He needs to redact that... BAD. It is telling us to get another game to complain about. Many will, and many other companies are more then happy to take our disposable income. Cryptic needs to realize, yes we are needy, yes we are demanding and often times irritating. But they are selling a product. If they want people to stay, they need to make that clear. Indifference from a buisness standpoint is a complete lack of compassion.
Imo, you are twisting everything he saws, which is a clear sign of blocking any reasonable conclusion to this - maybe it's not intentional, or you think you're doing something else, but that how it seems to me
He states a fact (that forums are a small percentage, which they are), and you twist it to the continued view that our views don't matter to them. And you continue to maintain that stating another fact (that we are free to leave at any time) is the exact same as GFTO, where imo, merely stating the former is not saying that at all. It is not that clear-cut, and never has been
If I may offer advice, take some time to vent out the anger, then come in with an open mind to his statements... see if you still think the exact same then
No, he just said if you don't like what he decides, don't let the door hit you in the TRIBBLE on the way out.
And it's because of all the playerbase anger that you see it that way... I'm not angry, and I don't see what he said as that at all (never have, no matter who claimed that we are free to leave at anytime - that's just a statement, and a reality at that)
Are people seriously targeting Taco at this point?
Have we all gone mad?
This door swings both ways, im certain the development team is aware of that, also certain that some forum users are aware of that.
Taco I just want to say thank you for such an amazing nearly accurate as possible interior for the intrepid ( I don't have it since I only want the interior not the ship)
Also thank you for all your hard work in the scenery for this game, it shows.
And last but not least, thank you for being the dev that I can totally give mad props and respect for keeping a stiff upper chin and not going all crazy to your customers/fans.
I actually facepalmed myself; he's one of the best devs around here (seriously Taco), and people target him for their troubles at Cryptic?
A clear sign, imo, that the anger has blinded this forum - I don't claim that the devs are free of guilt, but much of it is not only their fault.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
if i walk into a restaurant, order a steak, complain the steak is overcooked and they tell me, 'well, you are free to leave' i think we all understand the subtext of that comment.
seriously guys :rolleyes:
sif nobody here realises they are free to stop playing. thanks for the edification lol
ok, Cryptic apologist. Until he or another representative of Cryptic takes that back. It stands on its own. They told us we are free to leave. We all know how to take that.
Apparently, we all don't. :P I'm sure all he meant was to react to the often over self-entitled populus here, screaming things like "I pay your salary; therefore you must do as I say!" He was simply setting people straight on that. Yes, he will listen, and even accommate us, when the request is reasonable, and can be done (economically); but we do not call the shots. And there's nothing unreasonable or outrageous about him having said so.
Besides, Taco is one of the good guys. If you want to rant at someone, pick on Geko! At least the latter deserves it.
Besides, Taco is one of the good guys. If you want to rant at someone, pick on Geko! At least the latter deserves it.
Hear hear.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Imo, you are twisting everything he saws, which is a clear sign of blocking any reasonable conclusion to this - maybe it's not intentional, or you think you're doing something else, but that how it seems to me
He states a fact (that forums are a small percentage, which they are), and you twist it to the continued view that our views don't matter to them. And you continue to maintain that stating another fact (that we are free to leave at any time) is the exact same as GFTO, where imo, merely stating the former is not saying that at all. It is not that clear-cut, and never has been
(He did say that)
If I may offer advice, take some time to vent out the anger, then come in with an open mind to his statements... see if you still think the exact same then
(So you are Asking me to go away, then come back when I am less angry, so that I can Try to get alternate meaning of his statement. While yes a fantastic Idea, I am afraid you are missing the point. I do not have to put his statement into context. I have done so. I do not have to find "Hidden Meanings". He spelled it out. Every reasonable human being knows we can leave. He just spelled it out for us. We dont need Hidden meanings, as that statement stands the only reasonable conclusion is that we do not matter. He should redact it. Even you can admit that. If we were attacking him, we would not want him to take it back.)
And it's because of all the playerbase anger that you see it that way... I'm not angry, and I don't see what he said as that at all (never have, no matter who claimed that we are free to leave at anytime - that's just a statement, and a reality at that)
I actually facepalmed myself; he's one of the best devs around here (seriously Taco), and people target him for their troubles at Cryptic? (He still has time to come in and Redact the statement, to say that we matter.)
Try to see it from our end. We can try yours. He did wrong. I simply want him to clarify that we do matter. And that they do NOT want us to leave.
Now you're just being silly. Just because Taco spelled it out, one day, that, while they're ready to entertain suggestions, ultimately they're the ones calling the shots, does not mean they want us gone -- not even when he said that, if you really can't live with Cryptic's decisions, you're free to leave. He was just being factual.
/me, ready to be called a Cryptic-apologist now. :P
OK, so the point of him posting such obvious truth was what?
He needs to educate us poor slobs?
Thank you very much if he didn't tell me I would never, ever figure it out for myself.
He got in here as a damage control and posted in essence that you have a right to write polite complaints or leave quietly.
I can also rattle my saber on social medias and third party outlets to give my opinion of his "product".
While we are fawning over Taco, for example Mirror ENT female uniform top has clipping issues that weren't there when introduced so maybe he should stick to his job, just an idea.
Apparently, we all don't. :P I'm sure all he meant was to react to the often over self-entitled populus here, screaming things like "I pay your salary; therefore you must do as I say!" He was simply setting people straight on that. Yes, he will listen, and even accommate us, when the request is reasonable, and can be done (economically); but we do not call the shots. And there's nothing unreasonable or outrageous about him having said so.
Besides, Taco is one of the good guys. If you want to rant at someone, pick on Geko! At least the latter deserves it.
Umm, what, he is part of their team, he gets paid for it and works for them, there is no good cop / bad cop - they are all the same and his private opinions are here irrelevant.
Try to see it from our end. We can try yours. He did wrong. I simply want him to clarify that we do matter. And that they do NOT want us to leave.
I don't want him to redact it, because I don't believe stating such a statement/fact/reality is a bad thing, or an accusation against me or anyone... so yes, I don't believe he said anything bad at all, and thus a redaction is unnecessary
The fact is, we're all taking this different. I've shown no anger (and indeed I've never been angry with the devs, ever), and I don't see it as telling me to leave. You've admitted you're angry, and whether that's the reason for it or not, you see it as him telling you to leave
I'm simply stating that he likely didn't mean it as you see it
Any reasonable players knows this tells you to get out.
This is a very bad thing... Taco should simply clarify.
I'm a reasonable player, and I didn't see it that way Why do you? It's the simple statement that it is, and a reality at that imo; we should take it as such, not as a 'get out'
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Apparently, we all don't. :P I'm sure all he meant was to react to the often over self-entitled populus here, screaming things like "I pay your salary; therefore you must do as I say!" He was simply setting people straight on that. Yes, he will listen, and even accommate us, when the request is reasonable, and can be done (economically); but we do not call the shots. And there's nothing unreasonable or outrageous about him having said so.
Besides, Taco is one of the good guys. If you want to rant at someone, pick on Geko! At least the latter deserves it.
We all know there are economic limitations among others. Can I expect to have a borg playable faction tomorrow? ??? NO... I know I pay the bills, but it is unreasonable. But now you see a developer tell us we can leave. Did he try to say that is what he wants? Nope. Did he say that is NOT what he wants? Again no, he told us where the door is. What would you do then? What would you do, when you clearly know you can stop playing, and he tells you that it is OK if you do? Any reasonable players knows this tells you to get out.
This is a very bad thing... Taco should simply clarify.
Umm, what, he is part of their team, he gets paid for it and works for them, there is no good cop / bad cop - they are all the same and his private opinions are here irrelevant.
Not really.
Geko chose on multiple occasions to be a condescending prick towards his customers.
Taco, on the other hand, delivers some outstanding work and interacts with the community on a regular basis - in a mostly good way.
He tends to speak his mind from time to time, but I can respect that. As opposed to Geko, D'Angelo or others.
There certainly is a difference between Taco and the pure evil that is Geko. xD
Geko chose on multiple occasions to be a condescating prick towards his customers.
Taco, on the other hand, delivers some outstanding work and interacts with the community on a regular basis - in a mostly good way.
He tends to speak his mind from time to time, but I can respect that. As opposed to Geko, D'Angelo or others.
He is a member of the team, in this case playing good cop role for the benefit of the team.
The fact he is more civil than the rest really means nothing, he wouldn't be here is Smirk managed to pull it off.
Geko chose on multiple occasions to be a condescating prick towards his customers.
Taco, on the other hand, delivers some outstanding work and interacts with the community on a regular basis - in a mostly good way.
He tends to speak his mind from time to time, but I can respect that. As opposed to Geko, D'Angelo or others.
There certainly is a difference between Taco and the pure evil that is Geko. xD
Did the others say you can leave? Did they feel the need to? From your statement there you are forgiving this due to past posotive interactions. I am glad he has usually been great. But Cryptic speaks through him, he doesnt have a disclaimer. He has a Cryptic Studios Team attacked to his forum posts. Can you safely say what he said was correct in this occasion? Or is his past niceness coloring your vison with Rose Colored Glasses?
He is a member of the team, in this case playing good cop role for the benefit of the team.
The fact he is more civil than the rest really means nothing, he wouldn't be here is Smirk managed to pull it off.
Actually it makes a ton of difference...
Taco is payed to work on the game as an Environmental Artist, and he works to that effect, and he only needs to read threads that relate to that... this one is not in the slightest, and he was here of his own free will. There's no company anything involved in that choice, and we cannot attach Cryptic to everything he does (that's just asking for trouble)
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
if i walk into a restaurant, order a steak, complain the steak is overcooked and they tell me, 'well, you are free to leave' i think we all understand the subtext of that comment.
seriously guys :rolleyes:
sif nobody here realises they are free to stop playing. thanks for the edification lol
Sure, but we're not eating steak here, we're talking about an MMO. There are some differences. For example, in a restaurant, tacos are on the menu. In an MMO, tacos can actually be valuable members of the art team, and make stuff like interiors or clubs.
It's a strange thing, this MMO business.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up, and everyone here realizes that taco is not actually on the menu.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Which begs the question, why must the decent people pay the price for someone's trolling/inflammatory comments?
Not to ***** on moderation, because Askray and Bluegeek are volunteering their time, and I greatly appreciate their efforts to keep civility in the forums. But I feel that our volunteer moderators need more effective moderation tools.
The Forum ToS needs to be revisited and updated, so Mods have greater legal power to isolate single posts and delete them when they are in clear violation of the ToS. Also, the ToS needs to protect forum users from unfair censorship, and allow us to voice legitimate concerns regarding the game, Customer Service, the forum, etc.
I agree, we need better tools. Even smirk thinks that. What we REALLY BADLY NEED is the report button. The system works fine and dandy but the button was removed. Why? Honestly we don't know and we've asked for it back and it's not happening. I've even offered the code for it (because I've used vbulletin for years) but nope heh. This one little object would make a huge difference in our day to day operation. It'd make it a lot easier to handle the forums when it's just us 3.
When it comes down to threads, we have the power to either isolate and deal with 1 person, or knock down the entire thread. It's our choice, and sometimes when it's just WAY out of control or we know it'll spiral out of control we close it to nip it in the bud and NOT have to issue warnings or request bans on people. Half the time when I close a thread I'm doing it because I don't want to issue warnings to you all. It's not because I'm lazy, it's because I don't want to start fires on the forums because of warnings and so fourth. I'd RATHER not issue warnings at all. Honestly that'd be fine by me if all I had to deal with was necro posts and moving things around. But the reality is that will never happen.
As for changing things up around here - Smirk has already said there are some changes coming and that is true. Some of it may be scary, some of it you probably won't notice :P But if people feel there is ways we can change the ToS to be more clearer, by all means feel free to send me a PM with your ideas and I'll throw it in the moderators area for discussion. However do realize that we keep a "grey" area in the tos for specific reasons (mostly to give us the freedom to decide if a warning, ban or just a "hey don't do that" is warranted). We allow and want you all to express your concerns about Cryptic Studios, Perfect World Entertainment or the way Star Trek Online is going. That said, bashing the "chinese overlords" will get you nothing but us coming in and closing the thread or issuing warnings.
You have a lot of freedom on this forum that you guys don't realize. I've seen and worked on forums that dealt with communities as large as this be a lot more of a tight rope to walk on. You post one bad thing about a dev or the company and BOOM out the door you went.
Finally the reason why I said to PM me if you want me to pass along rule changes is because they aren't allowed on the forums and realistically it'd just turn into a fight that we'd have to moderate in the end anyways. I'm willing to listen to peoples ideas to help make these forums work, but to do so people NEED to be civil especially towards the devs. I get that people are mad at Geko, Stephen, even Smirk for x y or z and you're more than welcome to voice those opinions. No one is saying don't. But there is ways to do it to where it sounds like constructive criticism vs flaming a developer.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Sure, but we're not eating steak here, we're talking about an MMO. There are some differences. For example, in a restaurant, tacos are on the menu. In an MMO, tacos can actually be valuable members of the art team, and make stuff like interiors or clubs.
It's a strange thing, this MMO business.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up, and everyone here realizes that taco is not actually on the menu.
But still, Taco Fangs showed us the Door... Im sorry, that is not something any of us had trouble with. As it is stated earlier, he showed us the door, so it wouldnt hit us in the TRIBBLE on the way out.
Did the others say you can leave? Did they feel the need to? From your statement there you are forgiving this due to past posotive interactions. I am glad he has usually been great. But Cryptic speaks through him, he doesnt have a disclaimer. He has a Cryptic Studios Team attacked to his forum posts. Can you safely say what he said was correct in this occasion? Or is his past niceness coloring your vison with Rose Colored Glasses?
I am not saying Taco was or is correct in everything he says or does.
Regarding his post in this thread, I strongly disagree.
But I won't put Taco on the same level on which I put Geko or "the invisible man" D'Angelo. Because I might disagree with Taco from time to time, but he has done nothing to deserve the disgust I feel towards his bosses.
Sure, but we're not eating steak here, we're talking about an MMO. There are some differences. For example, in a restaurant, tacos are on the menu. In an MMO, tacos can actually be valuable members of the art team, and make stuff like interiors or clubs.
It's a strange thing, this MMO business.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up, and everyone here realizes that taco is not actually on the menu.
I just LOL'd at this. Very nicely put :P:P:P
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Taco is payed to work on the game as an Environmental Artist, and he works to that effect, and he only needs to read threads that relate to that... this one is not in the slightest, and he was here of his own free will. There's no company anything involved in that choice, and we cannot attach Cryptic to everything he does (that's just asking for trouble)
Of course he was, hence the Cryptic tag to his post and his graciously long post explaining company position.
So riddle me this, why is an EA posting on the customer satisfaction, service, company policy etc?
He posted as a Crytpic team member, period.
No skin off my nose though, next garbage pile will be sugarcoated by Taco, thanks for helping them flesh that out.
Comments
over the past weeks ive read hundreds of good suggestions... and they ALL got ignored
but then again... they made it clear.... they do the decisions and we as customers dont have a say at all.
We are not taking it out of proportion, We are taking it exactly 3% out of proportion... Holy hell....
He made it very clear there... WE do not make the decisions. THEY (The Developers do) Good lord, he really does not want us here. I hope he redacts it. I hope he does. OMG this is bad. We cant take it any other way.
When the devs say they want to be civil, they mean it as well as a business can - but because of all the players' previous interactions coloring their views, they don't believe them for a second when they should, if for no other reason than to move forward
It's a sad, sad situation, and it's not purely the developer's who need to get their act together... at the very least, many need to vent elsewhere before approaching the issue as it needs to be approached (reasonably) If Taco wanted us out of here, he would have said so, blunt and clear - he's that kind of guy. But he did not; he said the obvious, that if you want to leave, you can, but it does not mean he wants you to or not <- something which has been true of any MMO since they existed
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
This SCREAMS "You do not Matter... Seriously...
I could not agree with your more, there is a lot of Anger here. But his statements are not Clouded at all. He states very clearly that he does not intend to change things based on what we decide. He also states very clearly that we are "Free to leave" that while not telling us to GTFO, is almost the same thing. He needs to redact that... BAD. It is telling us to get another game to complain about. Many will, and many other companies are more then happy to take our disposable income. Cryptic needs to realize, yes we are needy, yes we are demanding and often times irritating. But they are selling a product. If they want people to stay, they need to make that clear. Indifference from a buisness standpoint is a complete lack of compassion.
Now you're just being silly.
/me, ready to be called a Cryptic-apologist now. :P
Have we all gone mad?
This door swings both ways, im certain the development team is aware of that, also certain that some forum users are aware of that.
Taco I just want to say thank you for such an amazing nearly accurate as possible interior for the intrepid ( I don't have it since I only want the interior not the ship)
Also thank you for all your hard work in the scenery for this game, it shows.
And last but not least, thank you for being the dev that I can totally give mad props and respect for keeping a stiff upper chin and not going all crazy to your customers/fans.
No, he just said if you don't like what he decides, don't let the door hit you in the TRIBBLE on the way out.
cryptic may not plead for people to stay today, but the sure will eventually.
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Taco can't say "GO". He also has no legally binding power to force us to leave.
So he answers with "Stay if you want to, leave if you really want to". It makes sense.\
Now, as for "We have the power to make the decisions", they legally do. Cryptic is in charge of the development of the game, CBS/PWE aside. The game wasn't funded by Kickstarter, so the players really have no control over the game's development. That being said, it's nice when they take our advice into consideration.
Does this mean players should be satisfied with the Devs' work? Not at all. Devs screwed up this time, as they have in the past. They are human, just like us. What we can do is advocate for a change in leadership, but I personally don't think they will honor that request.
So things stay as they always have. Devs are in control of the game, and all we can hope for is that they listen to our advice. (Two heads are better than one?)
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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ok, Cryptic apologist. Until he or another representative of Cryptic takes that back. It stands on its own. They told us we are free to leave. We all know how to take that. It makes people more angry then happy. I will work on a Re-Wording of that. Let me show you how I would handle such things.
He states a fact (that forums are a small percentage, which they are), and you twist it to the continued view that our views don't matter to them. And you continue to maintain that stating another fact (that we are free to leave at any time) is the exact same as GFTO, where imo, merely stating the former is not saying that at all. It is not that clear-cut, and never has been
If I may offer advice, take some time to vent out the anger, then come in with an open mind to his statements... see if you still think the exact same then And it's because of all the playerbase anger that you see it that way... I'm not angry, and I don't see what he said as that at all (never have, no matter who claimed that we are free to leave at anytime - that's just a statement, and a reality at that) I actually facepalmed myself; he's one of the best devs around here (seriously Taco), and people target him for their troubles at Cryptic?
A clear sign, imo, that the anger has blinded this forum - I don't claim that the devs are free of guilt, but much of it is not only their fault.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
seriously guys :rolleyes:
sif nobody here realises they are free to stop playing. thanks for the edification lol
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Apparently, we all don't. :P I'm sure all he meant was to react to the often over self-entitled populus here, screaming things like "I pay your salary; therefore you must do as I say!" He was simply setting people straight on that. Yes, he will listen, and even accommate us, when the request is reasonable, and can be done (economically); but we do not call the shots. And there's nothing unreasonable or outrageous about him having said so.
Besides, Taco is one of the good guys. If you want to rant at someone, pick on Geko! At least the latter deserves it.
Hear hear.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Try to see it from our end. We can try yours. He did wrong. I simply want him to clarify that we do matter. And that they do NOT want us to leave.
OK, so the point of him posting such obvious truth was what?
He needs to educate us poor slobs?
Thank you very much if he didn't tell me I would never, ever figure it out for myself.
He got in here as a damage control and posted in essence that you have a right to write polite complaints or leave quietly.
I can also rattle my saber on social medias and third party outlets to give my opinion of his "product".
While we are fawning over Taco, for example Mirror ENT female uniform top has clipping issues that weren't there when introduced so maybe he should stick to his job, just an idea.
+1
I don't get the hate on Taco. We can be glad at least a few sane people are left over at Cryptic.
Damn, here I am on the "apologist" side of things?!
Umm, what, he is part of their team, he gets paid for it and works for them, there is no good cop / bad cop - they are all the same and his private opinions are here irrelevant.
The fact is, we're all taking this different. I've shown no anger (and indeed I've never been angry with the devs, ever), and I don't see it as telling me to leave. You've admitted you're angry, and whether that's the reason for it or not, you see it as him telling you to leave
I'm simply stating that he likely didn't mean it as you see it I'm a reasonable player, and I didn't see it that way
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
We all know there are economic limitations among others. Can I expect to have a borg playable faction tomorrow?
This is a very bad thing... Taco should simply clarify.
Not really.
Geko chose on multiple occasions to be a condescending prick towards his customers.
Taco, on the other hand, delivers some outstanding work and interacts with the community on a regular basis - in a mostly good way.
He tends to speak his mind from time to time, but I can respect that. As opposed to Geko, D'Angelo or others.
There certainly is a difference between Taco and the pure evil that is Geko. xD
He is a member of the team, in this case playing good cop role for the benefit of the team.
The fact he is more civil than the rest really means nothing, he wouldn't be here is Smirk managed to pull it off.
Did the others say you can leave? Did they feel the need to? From your statement there you are forgiving this due to past posotive interactions. I am glad he has usually been great. But Cryptic speaks through him, he doesnt have a disclaimer. He has a Cryptic Studios Team attacked to his forum posts. Can you safely say what he said was correct in this occasion? Or is his past niceness coloring your vison with Rose Colored Glasses?
Taco is payed to work on the game as an Environmental Artist, and he works to that effect, and he only needs to read threads that relate to that... this one is not in the slightest, and he was here of his own free will. There's no company anything involved in that choice, and we cannot attach Cryptic to everything he does (that's just asking for trouble)
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Sure, but we're not eating steak here, we're talking about an MMO. There are some differences. For example, in a restaurant, tacos are on the menu. In an MMO, tacos can actually be valuable members of the art team, and make stuff like interiors or clubs.
It's a strange thing, this MMO business.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up, and everyone here realizes that taco is not actually on the menu.
I agree, we need better tools. Even smirk thinks that. What we REALLY BADLY NEED is the report button. The system works fine and dandy but the button was removed. Why? Honestly we don't know and we've asked for it back and it's not happening. I've even offered the code for it (because I've used vbulletin for years) but nope heh. This one little object would make a huge difference in our day to day operation. It'd make it a lot easier to handle the forums when it's just us 3.
When it comes down to threads, we have the power to either isolate and deal with 1 person, or knock down the entire thread. It's our choice, and sometimes when it's just WAY out of control or we know it'll spiral out of control we close it to nip it in the bud and NOT have to issue warnings or request bans on people. Half the time when I close a thread I'm doing it because I don't want to issue warnings to you all. It's not because I'm lazy, it's because I don't want to start fires on the forums because of warnings and so fourth. I'd RATHER not issue warnings at all. Honestly that'd be fine by me if all I had to deal with was necro posts and moving things around. But the reality is that will never happen.
As for changing things up around here - Smirk has already said there are some changes coming and that is true. Some of it may be scary, some of it you probably won't notice :P But if people feel there is ways we can change the ToS to be more clearer, by all means feel free to send me a PM with your ideas and I'll throw it in the moderators area for discussion. However do realize that we keep a "grey" area in the tos for specific reasons (mostly to give us the freedom to decide if a warning, ban or just a "hey don't do that" is warranted). We allow and want you all to express your concerns about Cryptic Studios, Perfect World Entertainment or the way Star Trek Online is going. That said, bashing the "chinese overlords" will get you nothing but us coming in and closing the thread or issuing warnings.
You have a lot of freedom on this forum that you guys don't realize. I've seen and worked on forums that dealt with communities as large as this be a lot more of a tight rope to walk on. You post one bad thing about a dev or the company and BOOM out the door you went.
Finally the reason why I said to PM me if you want me to pass along rule changes is because they aren't allowed on the forums and realistically it'd just turn into a fight that we'd have to moderate in the end anyways. I'm willing to listen to peoples ideas to help make these forums work, but to do so people NEED to be civil especially towards the devs. I get that people are mad at Geko, Stephen, even Smirk for x y or z and you're more than welcome to voice those opinions. No one is saying don't. But there is ways to do it to where it sounds like constructive criticism vs flaming a developer.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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But still, Taco Fangs showed us the Door... Im sorry, that is not something any of us had trouble with. As it is stated earlier, he showed us the door, so it wouldnt hit us in the TRIBBLE on the way out.
I am not saying Taco was or is correct in everything he says or does.
Regarding his post in this thread, I strongly disagree.
But I won't put Taco on the same level on which I put Geko or "the invisible man" D'Angelo. Because I might disagree with Taco from time to time, but he has done nothing to deserve the disgust I feel towards his bosses.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Of course he was, hence the Cryptic tag to his post and his graciously long post explaining company position.
So riddle me this, why is an EA posting on the customer satisfaction, service, company policy etc?
He posted as a Crytpic team member, period.
No skin off my nose though, next garbage pile will be sugarcoated by Taco, thanks for helping them flesh that out.