Devs: It's bad enough that the reputation bits required for rep gear (omega, dyson, counter command) are gated through these...Don't you feel it's double punishment now? To many of us, ESTFs are an evil we must endure to obtain rep gear, *not* a desirable pasttime we enjoy doing. Frankly, you should have put those rep bits in as a project costing x# of marks, rather than herding us to content that many of us only show up for to get the associated rep gizmo needed for rep items.
I think this is what happens when you listen to the vocal minority of elitists on the forums, and think that they speak for all of us.
According to the descriptions of the rewards, the new Elite is where you get the mats for the superior upgrade kits that hold the dilithium cost of item upgrades down to a "reasonable" amount.
Considering the fact that they're gated through the STF system, I think I'd rather spend the dil...and i think that's what they're hoping for over at PWE. There's a limit to what i'd do to upgrade gear...Elite STFs over and over is beyond that limit. It's bad enough that rep gear is gated through them. I'd better hustle if I'm to get what little rep gear I want before they make it even *harder* to obtain.
I certainly don't do STFs for *fun*...Apparently the few that do, are also the vocal bunch on the forums that the Devs mistook for the majority.
According to the descriptions of the rewards, the new Elite is where you get the mats for the superior upgrade kits that hold the dilithium cost of item upgrades down to a "reasonable" amount.
There are 4 upgrade kits you can craft. Basic, Improved, Superior, and Superior Experimental. Elite queues will drop salvage that allow you to craft superior experimental, which has a better chance to improve the quality of an item while upgrading it. You'll still be able to craft the first three types without doing elite.
Elite's only going to matter much to folks desperate to make gold items.
Oh and also if someone comes in and sabotages an event or game will it still at the very least trigger the daily marks bonus for the victims?
I don't remember exactly if had been implemented in WOW, but if I remember right, when I quit there was talk of a similar system.. that might be an outstanding option to consider here.
This. This works like a charm in TOR.
Also, we need a vote to kick.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
ah, enjoy being troll kicked right at the end by a group.
I can also see a lot of situations where people would kick at the beginning because they didn't like your ship or name etc... Or just for fun.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My guess is, that people are going to keep going the most efficient path...
...Nukara Ground, ESTF Ground, Hive, Undine Elite, shuttle events...all of those queues offer a bit more challenge, but are almost empty, when compared to ESTF Space, Battlezones or the CE.
Yup. Unless rewards start matching time/effort for each event, once the shininess of the revamp wears off, we'll settle right back into the same ruts.
Difficulty is fine, but I think there needs to be approporiate rewards (preferably a wholesale balance pass to redo all the rewards of the STF queues and battlezones)
If I remember right, his kick had a DoT in the end to circumvent the no-one-hit-kill policy. :P
Spamming Clarity in my case. Sonic Resonance FTW And it was fun indeed. We could at least avoid the sure-kill mechanic by playing as a team. In STO however, it doesn't matter how defensively buffed you are, by yourself or friends... or how debuffed the enemy is... you will still die in one hit.
I thought his kick only murderized you if you were deathmarked? (in which case, well... It's your own damn fault )
Difficulty is fine, but I think there needs to be approporiate rewards (preferably a wholesale balance pass to redo all the rewards of the STF queues and battlezones)
erm...yeah boost it for the undine battlezone and missions, beyond that.......DONT TOUCH MY DAMN VOTH ZONE :P
Yes the queue are kinda dead and only come alive when there is an event going on.
Colony Invasion
A couple of Omega Marks ones are the most active.
The KDF and ROM factions the queues are quiet!
Yeah, I'm completely baffled. Some queues can have a longish wait, but most are only a couple of minutes at most, and the most popular stuff (CE, ISTF, etc.) pop almost instantly.
Heck, the crafting change even made people run the ground queues.
If I remember right, his kick had a DoT in the end to circumvent the no-one-hit-kill policy. :P
Spamming Clarity in my case. Sonic Resonance FTW And it was fun indeed. We could at least avoid the sure-kill mechanic by playing as a team. In STO however, it doesn't matter how defensively buffed you are, by yourself or friends... or how debuffed the enemy is... you will still die in one hit.
What Hawk said... but if you want to see a real one-shot?
Go to Champions Online and fight a Mega-Destroid. those things can party wipe with one attack, granted they use it rarely, and it can be blocked... but still, if you don't block in time, it's time to respawn.
Has this started already the revamps of the queue? Some of the Elites seems to be changed already. If you didn't complete your objective and if all didn't do it the objective is a failure and you must leave the map. As did everyone else did.
Yeah, I'm completely baffled. Some queues can have a longish wait, but most are only a couple of minutes at most, and the most popular stuff (CE, ISTF, etc.) pop almost instantly.
Heck, the crafting change even made people run the ground queues.
Yeah, I try to do undine ground and defend Rhi lo station most days. The Undine infiltration takes maybe 45 seconds to pop. The other maybe as much as 2 to 3 minutes. Sometimes much faster.
The problem ones are the large queues and one or two others that no one has played for years now.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Has this started already the revamps of the queue? Some of the Elites seems to be changed already. If you didn't complete your objective and if all didn't do it the objective is a failure and you must leave the map. As did everyone else did.
Honestly, getting one-shotted isn't the problem: (for instance, I have no issue with the CE's Wave O'Doom) the problem is getting one shotted at seemingly random.
If you die it should be clear that you did something wrong. (either you built your ship to squishy, or you "stood in the fire", or failed to kill the adds on time, or whatever)
Ok, biggest problem I foresee with this new system, is for instance IGE.
90%+ of all pug groups, cannot even get the optional, now they are required to not only get the old optionals, or mission is a complete failure, but new ones as well!
I don't see this going over to well, I mean yes, pugs do need to learn to pick up the pace, but this is slightly overboard IMO!
Are you all going to change the requirement, for elite optionals to no longer be required, in obtaining the reputation gear oufit(s) visuals?
Elites seem to be revamped as for now. I with some guys in one of the ground Elites for Borg. Lets say the end task was never completed. My KDF had a lot need of medical care (costly I do say) the rest of the guys took the quick way out with the 1 hr penalty except for one guy who didn't know what to do. So I had wonder if these new queues are in effect right now sure things don't play the same. Borg Elite was very aggressive.
But in all I had a good team they took very good care of my KDF Lt General when he had fallen they had help restore him. As I did the same for them too. Anyway make sure you bring the right gear with you and make sure you team can take on the Borg Elite. If the Borg Advance is going worst OH BOY!
I'm pretty sure the new elite is not tailored toward PUGs but premades...
I wasn't referring to the new elites, but now becoming advanced!
They are being changed, so that what was once an optional needing completed, will now become required to even complete the mission in the first place, let alone adding new optionals to go with it!
I wasn't referring to the new elites, but now becoming advanced!
They are being changed, so that what was once an optional needing completed, will now become required to even complete the mission in the first place, let alone adding new optionals to go with it!
Point of note, according to the Collins Pocket English Dictionary (1993)* the word "Optional" means "Possible but not compulsory."
I.e. You don't have to do them.
The Normal difficulty optional objectives do NOT need completing in Normal, the new optional objectives at Advanced do NOT need completing at Advanced and the Elite level optional objectives do NOT need to be completed at Elite.
Granted, the optional objectives in one level are mission failure conditions at the higher difficulty levels, but I can count on one hand the number of times my team has failed the existing optional objectives at Advanced level Borg Space in the last few months and I exclusively PUG.
I'm still waiting for a response to my question about the rewards, which I think is slightly more important than helping players work out what difficulty levels they should be playing to. I'm expecting to need to replay at least a few queues at Normal when DR launches and see no reason why anyone would find that a chore.
If the new Elite difficulty levels prove un-PUG-able then fine, so long as gear access is not restricted to only playing Elite there should not be an issue and I doubt that the new Advanced will be that much of a problem.
General T'Reirr Asei Captain of the venerable I.K.S. Y'Kun.
Warrior of the Empire; Savior of Cookies; Lord of String; Devious Little S*!7
Point of note, according to the Collins Pocket English Dictionary (1993)* the word "Optional" means "Possible but not compulsory."
I.e. You don't have to do them.
The Normal difficulty optional objectives do NOT need completing in Normal, the new optional objectives at Advanced do NOT need completing at Advanced and the Elite level optional objectives do NOT need to be completed at Elite.
Granted, the optional objectives in one level are mission failure conditions at the higher difficulty levels, but I can count on one hand the number of times my team has failed the existing optional objectives at Advanced level Borg Space in the last few months and I exclusively PUG.
I'm still waiting for a response to my question about the rewards, which I think is slightly more important than helping players work out what difficulty levels they should be playing to. I'm expecting to need to replay at least a few queues at Normal when DR launches and see no reason why anyone would find that a chore.
If the new Elite difficulty levels prove un-PUG-able then fine, so long as gear access is not restricted to only playing Elite there should not be an issue and I doubt that the new Advanced will be that much of a problem.
If you looked into my post, what I am referring to, is the old elite optionals, that are now becoming mandatory for advanced/elite missions to be completed.
As 90%+ of all ground pugs, cannot even complete the current optionals, now how are they going to complete them when they are becoming mandatory + new optionals added?
While the new optionals aren't a big deal, when it comes to advanced, it will be a big deal to the elite runner's.
And, if the normal player base, cannot so much as complete advanced missions (due to not even completing old opts), how will this effect the reputation outfit unlocks?
I still have 2 toons, that need those ground optionals as of this moment, and not a single pug group has even come close to helping me obtain this goal.
Because, well 1-3 player's in these groups, have absolutely no clue as to what they are doing!
Oh, and not to mention vicious cycle, where there is that 1 rift you need to scan, that no one can get, or the fact that 25%+ of the time, the big planet killer isn't actually ever there, this will spell autofail over, and over again for people.
So, can we expect some sort of ruling on these issues?
I can foresee, a lot of grieving being possible, as trolls/newbs/noobs rain in on advanced/elite missions, causing failures left & right for other people!
Many of these are easy to fail. All it takes is ONE person to TRIBBLE things up.
This just reminds me of the original Borg STFs. After nearly an hour on the map, someone could TRIBBLE up the final room and all your time was wasted.
There are a couple of "optionals" that after years and years, I have yet to ever actually complete. There is no margin of error.
Part of the problem now is that y'all removed the bonuses. So truth be told, many people just stopped trying since the difference between getting then and not became miniscule. Many newer players IMO don't even know how to complete some of them. Vorn ground at one time was easy peasy. Now I wont even do it because it just takes one slow poke or one person using the wrong abilitiy at the wrong time to make it a complete waste of time.
I also think this would cause griefing. If one player on the team just wants some quick rewards then why not fail the map ASAP.
And if I could be so bold.... some of the content is just poorly designed in the first place.
If you looked into my post, what I am referring to, is the old elite optionals, that are now becoming mandatory for advanced/elite missions to be completed.
As 90%+ of all ground pugs, cannot even complete the current optionals, now how are they going to complete them when they are becoming mandatory + new optionals added?
While the new optionals aren't a big deal, when it comes to advanced, it will be a big deal to the elite runner's.
And, if the normal player base, cannot so much as complete advanced missions (due to not even completing old opts), how will this effect the reputation outfit unlocks?
I still have 2 toons, that need those ground optionals as of this moment, and not a single pug group has even come close to helping me obtain this goal.
that's because ....
1) Many of the "optionals" are very unclear. Its not clear what you are supposed to do or not do.
2) They have changed the missions so much over the years that for a long time the "optionals" were irrelevant and people just stopped trying.
1) Many of the "optionals" are very unclear. Its not clear what you are supposed to do or not do.
2) They have changed the missions so much over the years that for a long time the "optionals" were irrelevant and people just stopped trying.
3) The maps are just poorly designed
It also boils down to a lot of people, just simply not using their brains, and learning how to actually complete the optionals, let alone even completing the mission without the only mindset is everything must die!
In other words, kill kill kill, oh wait you mean there is actually some objective needs done, or there is an optional needs completing!
I will agree that the borg ground will not be possible for the random team. And I am a proud pug supporter.
I was doing them for a while for the VR mats. But I got tired of it. The only one that's remotely reasonable is Khittomer. The others are way over the top as is. But even its optionals are going to be too hard as they exist now.
Also I will admit to having no idea what people mean by this scan the rift in viscous cycle? Maybe someone else is doing it. I usually score well in pugs on that mission.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
i havent done many ground missions since the rep systems began as they are virtually impossible to Pug as you need teamwork especially in CGE and IGE especially if you want the optionals so making these into advanced and elites will offer more of a challenge but may also make them a ghost town as well.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
Colony Invasion
A couple of Omega Marks ones are the most active.
The KDF and ROM factions the queues are quiet!
Time will only tell!
I think this is what happens when you listen to the vocal minority of elitists on the forums, and think that they speak for all of us.
Considering the fact that they're gated through the STF system, I think I'd rather spend the dil...and i think that's what they're hoping for over at PWE. There's a limit to what i'd do to upgrade gear...Elite STFs over and over is beyond that limit. It's bad enough that rep gear is gated through them. I'd better hustle if I'm to get what little rep gear I want before they make it even *harder* to obtain.
I certainly don't do STFs for *fun*...Apparently the few that do, are also the vocal bunch on the forums that the Devs mistook for the majority.
My character Tsin'xing
There are 4 upgrade kits you can craft. Basic, Improved, Superior, and Superior Experimental. Elite queues will drop salvage that allow you to craft superior experimental, which has a better chance to improve the quality of an item while upgrading it. You'll still be able to craft the first three types without doing elite.
Elite's only going to matter much to folks desperate to make gold items.
This. This works like a charm in TOR.
Also, we need a vote to kick.
I can also see a lot of situations where people would kick at the beginning because they didn't like your ship or name etc... Or just for fun.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yup. Unless rewards start matching time/effort for each event, once the shininess of the revamp wears off, we'll settle right back into the same ruts.
I thought his kick only murderized you if you were deathmarked? (in which case, well... It's your own damn fault
erm...yeah boost it for the undine battlezone and missions, beyond that.......DONT TOUCH MY DAMN VOTH ZONE :P
Yeah, I'm completely baffled. Some queues can have a longish wait, but most are only a couple of minutes at most, and the most popular stuff (CE, ISTF, etc.) pop almost instantly.
Heck, the crafting change even made people run the ground queues.
Go to Champions Online and fight a Mega-Destroid. those things can party wipe with one attack, granted they use it rarely, and it can be blocked... but still, if you don't block in time, it's time to respawn.
My character Tsin'xing
Time will only tell!
Yeah, I try to do undine ground and defend Rhi lo station most days. The Undine infiltration takes maybe 45 seconds to pop. The other maybe as much as 2 to 3 minutes. Sometimes much faster.
The problem ones are the large queues and one or two others that no one has played for years now.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Honestly, getting one-shotted isn't the problem: (for instance, I have no issue with the CE's Wave O'Doom) the problem is getting one shotted at seemingly random.
If you die it should be clear that you did something wrong. (either you built your ship to squishy, or you "stood in the fire", or failed to kill the adds on time, or whatever)
Know the difference
It could save your life...
90%+ of all pug groups, cannot even get the optional, now they are required to not only get the old optionals, or mission is a complete failure, but new ones as well!
I don't see this going over to well, I mean yes, pugs do need to learn to pick up the pace, but this is slightly overboard IMO!
Are you all going to change the requirement, for elite optionals to no longer be required, in obtaining the reputation gear oufit(s) visuals?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
Elites seem to be revamped as for now. I with some guys in one of the ground Elites for Borg. Lets say the end task was never completed. My KDF had a lot need of medical care (costly I do say) the rest of the guys took the quick way out with the 1 hr penalty except for one guy who didn't know what to do. So I had wonder if these new queues are in effect right now sure things don't play the same. Borg Elite was very aggressive.
But in all I had a good team they took very good care of my KDF Lt General when he had fallen they had help restore him. As I did the same for them too. Anyway make sure you bring the right gear with you and make sure you team can take on the Borg Elite. If the Borg Advance is going worst OH BOY!
Side Note: Reference to Borg Elite Ground only!
Time will only tell!
I wasn't referring to the new elites, but now becoming advanced!
They are being changed, so that what was once an optional needing completed, will now become required to even complete the mission in the first place, let alone adding new optionals to go with it!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Point of note, according to the Collins Pocket English Dictionary (1993)* the word "Optional" means "Possible but not compulsory."
I.e. You don't have to do them.
The Normal difficulty optional objectives do NOT need completing in Normal, the new optional objectives at Advanced do NOT need completing at Advanced and the Elite level optional objectives do NOT need to be completed at Elite.
Granted, the optional objectives in one level are mission failure conditions at the higher difficulty levels, but I can count on one hand the number of times my team has failed the existing optional objectives at Advanced level Borg Space in the last few months and I exclusively PUG.
I'm still waiting for a response to my question about the rewards, which I think is slightly more important than helping players work out what difficulty levels they should be playing to. I'm expecting to need to replay at least a few queues at Normal when DR launches and see no reason why anyone would find that a chore.
If the new Elite difficulty levels prove un-PUG-able then fine, so long as gear access is not restricted to only playing Elite there should not be an issue and I doubt that the new Advanced will be that much of a problem.
Captain of the venerable I.K.S. Y'Kun.
#MaybeALittleFluffy
If you looked into my post, what I am referring to, is the old elite optionals, that are now becoming mandatory for advanced/elite missions to be completed.
As 90%+ of all ground pugs, cannot even complete the current optionals, now how are they going to complete them when they are becoming mandatory + new optionals added?
While the new optionals aren't a big deal, when it comes to advanced, it will be a big deal to the elite runner's.
And, if the normal player base, cannot so much as complete advanced missions (due to not even completing old opts), how will this effect the reputation outfit unlocks?
I still have 2 toons, that need those ground optionals as of this moment, and not a single pug group has even come close to helping me obtain this goal.
Because, well 1-3 player's in these groups, have absolutely no clue as to what they are doing!
Oh, and not to mention vicious cycle, where there is that 1 rift you need to scan, that no one can get, or the fact that 25%+ of the time, the big planet killer isn't actually ever there, this will spell autofail over, and over again for people.
So, can we expect some sort of ruling on these issues?
I can foresee, a lot of grieving being possible, as trolls/newbs/noobs rain in on advanced/elite missions, causing failures left & right for other people!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Many of these are easy to fail. All it takes is ONE person to TRIBBLE things up.
This just reminds me of the original Borg STFs. After nearly an hour on the map, someone could TRIBBLE up the final room and all your time was wasted.
There are a couple of "optionals" that after years and years, I have yet to ever actually complete. There is no margin of error.
Part of the problem now is that y'all removed the bonuses. So truth be told, many people just stopped trying since the difference between getting then and not became miniscule. Many newer players IMO don't even know how to complete some of them. Vorn ground at one time was easy peasy. Now I wont even do it because it just takes one slow poke or one person using the wrong abilitiy at the wrong time to make it a complete waste of time.
I also think this would cause griefing. If one player on the team just wants some quick rewards then why not fail the map ASAP.
And if I could be so bold.... some of the content is just poorly designed in the first place.
that's because ....
1) Many of the "optionals" are very unclear. Its not clear what you are supposed to do or not do.
2) They have changed the missions so much over the years that for a long time the "optionals" were irrelevant and people just stopped trying.
3) The maps are just poorly designed
It also boils down to a lot of people, just simply not using their brains, and learning how to actually complete the optionals, let alone even completing the mission without the only mindset is everything must die!
In other words, kill kill kill, oh wait you mean there is actually some objective needs done, or there is an optional needs completing!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I was doing them for a while for the VR mats. But I got tired of it. The only one that's remotely reasonable is Khittomer. The others are way over the top as is. But even its optionals are going to be too hard as they exist now.
Also I will admit to having no idea what people mean by this scan the rift in viscous cycle? Maybe someone else is doing it. I usually score well in pugs on that mission.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]