btw, the undine space stf "viscous cycle elite" will be also updated?
this stf is already hard. this is the only one, where i see OP ships being destroyed. if this stf is updated, i can't wait to try it. when a scimitar explodes; this is always a wonderful show :P
In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.
TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.
Ooooooo
That is an entirely too quoteably TLDR Hawk. I hope you are prepared to have that one crop back up everytime a borg cube stealth-pedos someone cause as of this writing that is still happening.
I am also forced to wonder if Rush Rush Rush timers are also a bad way to generate "challenge" certainly prudent at times for sure, but they do seem to get overused here a bit with no justification in the mechanics of the story. Like ISE for example. 15 minutes to finish ok.. Why? what happens at the end of that 15 minutes that makes one fail? Why should we care aside from wanting more loot.
Sometimes some logical justification can go a long way to adding motivation, which in and of itself can generate a sense of challenge.
Advanced does offer some new challenges as well. Many objectives that were optional in Normal mode are now required in Advanced mode. We hope you were paying attention during your playthroughs of Normal before jumping into Advanced. Beginning with the release of Delta Rising, failure to complete these formerly optional objectives will result in the immediate failure of the mission. Upon failure, you will receive a portion of the rewards that you would have received for completing the mission, so you still are rewarded for your time spent in the event.
I think the advanced and elite changes will keep allot of people away. While I do like some of these changes, I also believe disgruntled players will exploit the system. I can see two people rage quitting; thus, pushing an entire stf into failure. Two angry players, fleetmates, could cause an entire stf to fail.
Another thing to consider is that people are investing time into playing stfs. If I put in about ten to fifteen minutes, I would be pretty pissed if an entire stf failed. I would most likely not play the mission again. I would avoid it like the plague.
Upon failure, you will receive a portion of the rewards that you would have received for completing the mission, so you still are rewarded for your time spent in the event.
I bet its only a very tiny amount.
When it comes to pick-up-groups, I would stay clear of them entirely. Since these changes make pick-up-groups a risk, I would only play with my fleetmates. Too much risk in random pick-up-groups.
So I am wondering if this could mean the Tanker/Healer Cruiser being needed.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Yeah some of this is good but lowering everyone to level 50 for some of these is just disgusting. There are times I just want to go in and get the thing over it's bad enough being stuck with some nubs in pugs as it is, but now you want to hobble better geared players to nub levels. Big mistake. Let the nubs learn and build themselves up but dont hobble better players who want a quick smash and grab to thier levels.
Oh nice making elites a cash cow for your company definetly pay to win on that.
You obviously don't know how level scaling works in STO.... It doesn't fully scale down all of your stats. A level 60 scaled down to 50 is still more powerful that an actual 50.
It also doesn't help that when we need to interact with objects in missions, being fired upon cancels that action. Something like a stun or knockback should cancel that action, but not a tiny peashot that bounces off my shields and somehow causes ensign doofus on my bridge to lose balance, fall on his butt, and not activate the thing I told him to activate. :rolleyes:
Oh, the new STF with the 4-way royal rumble has at least some interacts that don't have that problem. :P
Was any thought put into group make-up in regards to difficulty? What sort of group was tested internally to determine how hard things should be? Or are supposed to assume than any random pug group of builds (given high end gear and skill) should be able to accomplish these new elites? If not what what systems are being used to ensure a balanced enough team to accomplish these queues? Or did you just add more HP and damage and and prey we don't get stuck in a group of not enough, healing or survive-ability? Was there a conversation about the wide verity of possible group compositions available in STO and how that effects difficulty?
Was any thought put into group make-up in regards to difficulty? What sort of group was tested internally to determine how hard things should be? Or are supposed to assume than any random pug group of builds (given high end gear and skill) should be able to accomplish these new elites? If not what what systems are being used to ensure a balanced enough team to accomplish these queues? Or did you just add more HP and damage and and prey we don't get stuck in a group of not enough, healing or survive-ability? Was there a conversation about the wide verity of possible group compositions available in STO and how that effects difficulty?
Probably the best post in the thread for a while, even including mine.
Are the queues going to start assigning teams by career and ship? because it may become necessary.
In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.
TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.
In my experience, the people who get "one-shotted" in STFs are generally not using EPtS, not using TT, not using Brace for Impact or other defensive abilities, and more often than not have unrepaired injuries. Of course, those Borg HY torps do occasionally crit for 6-figure damage.
I think the advanced and elite changes will keep allot of people away. While I do like some of these changes, I also believe disgruntled players will exploit the system. I can see two people rage quitting; thus, pushing an entire stf into failure. Two angry players, fleetmates, could cause an entire stf to fail.
Another thing to consider is that people are investing time into playing stfs. If I put in about ten to fifteen minutes, I would be pretty pissed if an entire stf failed. I would most likely not play the mission again. I would avoid it like the plague.
I bet its only a very tiny amount.
When it comes to pick-up-groups, I would stay clear of them entirely. Since these changes make pick-up-groups a risk, I would only play with my fleetmates. Too much risk in random pick-up-groups.
I'd be less worried about the disgruntled folks that rage quit or fly off while watching youtube than the disgruntled individual with TBR. If formerly optional objectives have become required for Advanced and Elite, that could easily allow for the use of Repel/-Repel abilities to trigger an instant loss, bypassing the STF Leaver's Penalty by simply failing the mission and queuing the next. I look forward to trying out the changes, but we'll have to wait and see about the rest.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The change is what die-hards have been looking for in Elite, but it will definitely be something intended for established teams. I cannot see PuG fairing well, especially if old optionals are now required for Advanced and Elite.
My only question is, will you be adding the Borg, Undine and Voth modules to Normal so folks that play casually don't have to rely on PuGs in Advanced.
Just make it the Normal gives one in a 20 hour period, while the other will reward one for every time it is played up to a maximum of 3 for Advanced in 20 hours and 5 for Elite in 20 hours.
Advanced (old Elite) will also be a challenge for PuG if the team has too many new STF players or the stubborn type that just do their own thing (and cause the team to lose the old optional). :eek:
What I was hoping for is that if there are 4 que'd for a mission and instead of waiting another 20 minutes for a 5th to show up, the game would allow the 4 to enter and just adjust the difficulty level a bit.
Elites will be painful. There has to be a better way. Can something be built in that players must successfully complete the lower mission 3 times before trying the next one or taken a written test first ? I'd estimate that over 50% of the people in the elite pugs now have no idea about basic strategies or are really under powered and are counting on the other players to get them through.
The change is what die-hards have been looking for in Elite:
Well no, I certainly have not asked for 5-10 times the hp, just to make things even more dps dependent, so now its just single vs multi target. Nothing has changed, no strategy needed just pure dps.
Yeah... I really can't see this ending well, not only do most people not pay attention in the current elites.. but further dividing up the queues just means longer wait times when one isn't playing in an organized group.
Hm strange the only Thing that is mentioned about raising the difficulty is enemies do more damage and have more hitpoints.
Still nothing that does imply less then pure DPS is the way to beat the challenge.
Well i wait and see if we get suprised by real bossfight like mechanics that Need more then just pew pew.
That's all I've read as well.
Sounds like the Green Pea of Death is coming back...BY REQUEST THIS TIME.
My prediction:
The new "elite" queues will be just as vacant as the Hive Onslaught Elite queue...or players will play the new missions just long enough to warp out with swag.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Somehow this doesn't make sense. Cannon Star Trek never showed for the Delta quadrant species to be anything of superior capability in combat nor equipping of star ships and personal combat gear. Why change that with the Delta quadrant? Why not do that with those we know to be in the area of potential superior combat equipment capabilities in the Alpha, Beta, or Gamma quadrants?
Somehow this doesn't make sense. Cannon Star Trek never showed for the Delta quadrant species to be anything of superior capability in combat nor equipping of star ships and personal combat gear. Why change that with the Delta quadrant? Why not do that with those we know to be in the area of potential superior combat equipment capabilities in the Alpha, Beta, or Gamma quadrants?
....
That's not.. entirely true.. But the Hirogen, Voth, and Borg are all already here, so most of the strongest are here, but there were a few others around who were no push overs. They just didn't show up more than once or twice, I have been watching Voyager through again.
Warning: The new Elite mode is far and away the hardest content we have put into Star Trek Online. We expect you to not just be outfitted in great gear, but have become proficient in the Normal and Advanced versions of the events as well. You should be a master of your character and your ship, as well as knowing what your teammates are capable of doing. You should also know what to expect from the enemy you will be fighting as well.
If you see an Elite mode on a queued event after Delta Rising has launched, you should know that this is not for the faint of heart. These queues are designed to test our best and most powerful Captains in the game. Players have yearned for a challenge, and this is it. Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete.
After first reading this I only have one thought to express on behalf of myself and my fleet mates: "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!!"
I'm not really sure how I feel about this just yet. So far, anytime Cryptic has tried to make elite harder, all it's really done is add health, damage, and bugs. Most of which tend to creep into the lower difficulties as well. The Borg in the normal STF's are still running around (actually running), I've seen them walk through walls, I've seen base drones plasma spread a team down in a single spread (not to mention that they can spam it).
The newer Elites really just seem to be more of the same, where my Weapons say they do so much damage, yet they're lucky to hit half that, while the enemy ships are killing my shields in two shots. So far, making things more difficult by cryptic standards, really only seems to make them cheaper, if no outright cheating to win (again, the bugs...). With how the timed mechanics work in champions, and how much of a DPS race this game already is, I'm not really sure what to expect other than disappointment.
Even the rewards for elite were kind of TRIBBLE. Any time I run them, I get stuck with batteries, food, and nothing of any value, so there isn't much reason to play elites other than a slight increase in marks.
I'm hoping they're actually going to be adding new objectives and things to add challenge rather than just resorting to cheap de/buff tactics just so the minmax crowd isn't burning through it in two minutes.
I'm curious to see what they're going to do, but from what has been done in previous years, I just don't want to get my hopes up.
In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.
TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.
I didn't see if this had been answered, but does this mean that the invisible Torps that one shot you will be removed from the queues? I have had my Scimitar with full shields, secondary shields, full health, and buffed, and got one shot by a regular cube on elite. It did over 175,000 damage when it hit. Also, my T5 Defiant got hit today with over 89,000 from an invisible torp.
If these are removed, that will be awesome!
And since you are trying to move away from the one shots, does that mean the tampon looking ships will no longer be able to kill you in one shot of the lance? That thing worked right for about two weeks, then began hitting people outside of 23km.
It will also be nice if the Torps from enemies had the same life time as ours. I have seen NPCs out run regular Torps with evasive, till they disappeared. But we can get hit more than 30km from some enemy Torps. And they speed up as they get near you too, out running your evasive. Lol.
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I don't understand how people can not like this change. It is a difficulty slider. If you can't do the hardest mode drop it down a notch. It isn't like they are changing the default difficulty. However, I will say that in 16yrs of MMO games, STO has some of the worst players I have ever had to pug with. Not sure why that is the case. That said, if you have a group of friends that understand the game, it has been face roll easy since launch.
This is pushing me more and more to buy the delta rising pack. I do hope, that with this increase in difficulty. Does this mean we will see engineering and science powers be brought up to par with tact also a few tac abilities brought down slightly ?
Because the current meta you want more tact everything... Because engineering heavy ships and science ships aren't able to complete stuff as effectively, and just don't feel as fun as they should.
I would like to know how the meta will change any chance we will get a dev blog for this ?
Well... this will suck alot, big time. First only a minority of players actually wanted harder content, just the forumers and even from those not all of them. The majority of playerbase dont even read news let alone the forums. And dont want harder content, judging by ISE's popularity. But anyway... still things will be sucky and the whole elite content will be a big fail. Not mainly becouse it may be harder, but becouse of the rewards. Of course every player once hits lvl 60 will que the elite modes. You can make a sure bet with that. And one of the reasons are the rewards tables from normal and advanced. The point is they are not worth doing... You cant lock something up only for elites and espect ppl not to want it... And ppl are deluding themselfs with the ""But ppl who cant do elite ques will just buy the exclusive rewards elite drops". Yeah right, they dont have resources to buy decent gear for their ships and will buy the elite drops...:rolleyes: Now if there was something like differ the drops by numbers, like say 1 for normal, 2-3 for advanced and 5 or more for elites, things wouldve been diferent. Noobs and low geared ppl would have an incentive to do the normals, slowly building gear and learning the que, until ready to move forward. And it wouldnt make the elite ques to fail by not joining them.
Ohh and they will also suck becouse if certain tactics and ships are required (I suspect escorts online again ), it will totaly take away the fun of running a fun build or a certain favored ship, wich even if its best geared it may not do tops DPS, but still enuf to pull ur weight in a team.
Also another thing, this seems to me like a way to "force" ppl to spend ridicoulus amounts of their resources on that awful expensive upgrade system. Lots of players expressed their view that they wont bother with that cuz of the costs, with the mind set that they will do just fine with their curent MK XII gear, so this new chalanges is just "Wanna bet?" response from Cryptic
I'm just hoping this is a genuine increase in difficulty, I mean on paper it sounds great but in practice is another matter.
I'm just hoping that the missions will be made harder if they're under-performing and not nerfed if they do prove to be a challenge. We've not had any real challenge for years, HIVE was never really a challenge although it is certainly fun.
If it gives all the players who have been craving a challenge something to do then that's great, be good to get back to the old days. However like I've implied the truth will be in the doing, so here's hoping we're not going to be making a video about destroying any missions any time soon
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I just don't understand the point of making the optionals required in advanced. All this does is make it easier for a bad pug or troll to TRIBBLE people over, there's no upside whatsoever. It doesn't make the content harder, since it's easy to complete them already, all it does is make pugging even more annoying. That's literally it.
The people complaining about how the game is too easy got their harder content in the new elites, why TRIBBLE with perfectly good content at the same time? I don't get it.
Comments
i feel that pain.. id give you a beardy man hug, but i know how you hate that ****
this stf is already hard. this is the only one, where i see OP ships being destroyed. if this stf is updated, i can't wait to try it. when a scimitar explodes; this is always a wonderful show :P
'We bumped their Shield and Hull HP so you can't kill them before they will have a chance to show you their their crappy AI scripts!!!"
Ooooooo
That is an entirely too quoteably TLDR Hawk. I hope you are prepared to have that one crop back up everytime a borg cube stealth-pedos someone cause as of this writing that is still happening.
Sometimes some logical justification can go a long way to adding motivation, which in and of itself can generate a sense of challenge.
Another thing to consider is that people are investing time into playing stfs. If I put in about ten to fifteen minutes, I would be pretty pissed if an entire stf failed. I would most likely not play the mission again. I would avoid it like the plague.
I bet its only a very tiny amount.
When it comes to pick-up-groups, I would stay clear of them entirely. Since these changes make pick-up-groups a risk, I would only play with my fleetmates. Too much risk in random pick-up-groups.
My character Tsin'xing
Probably the best post in the thread for a while, even including mine.
Are the queues going to start assigning teams by career and ship? because it may become necessary.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
In my experience, the people who get "one-shotted" in STFs are generally not using EPtS, not using TT, not using Brace for Impact or other defensive abilities, and more often than not have unrepaired injuries. Of course, those Borg HY torps do occasionally crit for 6-figure damage.
I'd be less worried about the disgruntled folks that rage quit or fly off while watching youtube than the disgruntled individual with TBR. If formerly optional objectives have become required for Advanced and Elite, that could easily allow for the use of Repel/-Repel abilities to trigger an instant loss, bypassing the STF Leaver's Penalty by simply failing the mission and queuing the next. I look forward to trying out the changes, but we'll have to wait and see about the rest.
What? Like you weren't thinking it... :P
My only question is, will you be adding the Borg, Undine and Voth modules to Normal so folks that play casually don't have to rely on PuGs in Advanced.
Just make it the Normal gives one in a 20 hour period, while the other will reward one for every time it is played up to a maximum of 3 for Advanced in 20 hours and 5 for Elite in 20 hours.
Advanced (old Elite) will also be a challenge for PuG if the team has too many new STF players or the stubborn type that just do their own thing (and cause the team to lose the old optional). :eek:
What I was hoping for is that if there are 4 que'd for a mission and instead of waiting another 20 minutes for a 5th to show up, the game would allow the 4 to enter and just adjust the difficulty level a bit.
Well no, I certainly have not asked for 5-10 times the hp, just to make things even more dps dependent, so now its just single vs multi target. Nothing has changed, no strategy needed just pure dps.
That's all I've read as well.
Sounds like the Green Pea of Death is coming back...BY REQUEST THIS TIME.
My prediction:
The new "elite" queues will be just as vacant as the Hive Onslaught Elite queue...or players will play the new missions just long enough to warp out with swag.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
....
That's not.. entirely true.. But the Hirogen, Voth, and Borg are all already here, so most of the strongest are here, but there were a few others around who were no push overs. They just didn't show up more than once or twice, I have been watching Voyager through again.
After first reading this I only have one thought to express on behalf of myself and my fleet mates: "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!!"
The newer Elites really just seem to be more of the same, where my Weapons say they do so much damage, yet they're lucky to hit half that, while the enemy ships are killing my shields in two shots. So far, making things more difficult by cryptic standards, really only seems to make them cheaper, if no outright cheating to win (again, the bugs...). With how the timed mechanics work in champions, and how much of a DPS race this game already is, I'm not really sure what to expect other than disappointment.
Even the rewards for elite were kind of TRIBBLE. Any time I run them, I get stuck with batteries, food, and nothing of any value, so there isn't much reason to play elites other than a slight increase in marks.
I'm hoping they're actually going to be adding new objectives and things to add challenge rather than just resorting to cheap de/buff tactics just so the minmax crowd isn't burning through it in two minutes.
I'm curious to see what they're going to do, but from what has been done in previous years, I just don't want to get my hopes up.
I didn't see if this had been answered, but does this mean that the invisible Torps that one shot you will be removed from the queues? I have had my Scimitar with full shields, secondary shields, full health, and buffed, and got one shot by a regular cube on elite. It did over 175,000 damage when it hit. Also, my T5 Defiant got hit today with over 89,000 from an invisible torp.
If these are removed, that will be awesome!
And since you are trying to move away from the one shots, does that mean the tampon looking ships will no longer be able to kill you in one shot of the lance? That thing worked right for about two weeks, then began hitting people outside of 23km.
It will also be nice if the Torps from enemies had the same life time as ours. I have seen NPCs out run regular Torps with evasive, till they disappeared. But we can get hit more than 30km from some enemy Torps. And they speed up as they get near you too, out running your evasive. Lol.
I'm relieved to read that.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Because the current meta you want more tact everything... Because engineering heavy ships and science ships aren't able to complete stuff as effectively, and just don't feel as fun as they should.
I would like to know how the meta will change any chance we will get a dev blog for this ?
Ohh and they will also suck becouse if certain tactics and ships are required (I suspect escorts online again
Also another thing, this seems to me like a way to "force" ppl to spend ridicoulus amounts of their resources on that awful expensive upgrade system. Lots of players expressed their view that they wont bother with that cuz of the costs, with the mind set that they will do just fine with their curent MK XII gear, so this new chalanges is just "Wanna bet?" response from Cryptic
I'm just hoping that the missions will be made harder if they're under-performing and not nerfed if they do prove to be a challenge. We've not had any real challenge for years, HIVE was never really a challenge although it is certainly fun.
If it gives all the players who have been craving a challenge something to do then that's great, be good to get back to the old days. However like I've implied the truth will be in the doing, so here's hoping we're not going to be making a video about destroying any missions any time soon
The people complaining about how the game is too easy got their harder content in the new elites, why TRIBBLE with perfectly good content at the same time? I don't get it.