I dont know if this has been answered, but I noticed when I upgraded my Fleet Patrol Escort Refit, the Fixed Aft Turret gun becomes unusable and has to be replaced, also the Nadion Saturation Bomb Console becomes unusuable and both also are listed with the message (on a different ship) I end up losing the console when upgrading the ship.
Its called typical Cryptic programming..... Dum dee dum... just more wood for the fire.
Cryptic Studios is a leading developer of massively multiplayer online role playing games, with a reputation for delivering profitable, on-time and on-budget titles.
That is the very first sentence on the about page of Cryptic's website. I think it speaks for itself. Money comes above everything else and players be damned to never have a say, or even have fun. Resistance IS futile. So I digress
On another note, the mastery skill tree traits for our ships. Shouldn't the fleet versions or base 10 versions have enhanced base traits to that of the old 9 console versions? So my Fleet Gal X traits should be more potent than that of the standard gal x. At least that's my opinion. I mean, they are already half [REDACTED]ing the upgrades by giving Ex 9 9 console version and 10 console versions the same +1 console and traits. Aside for the +1 console and +10% stats, shouldnt there be a slightly bigger gap between fleet and non-fleet ships? Especially with the new traits.
Yeah... the clickiness of the newer systems is pretty godawful. That's why I no longer bother to self-select doffs, thanks to the UI... though the wait for the darn assignments and crafting projects to finish is why I'm still doffing less even though I've gotten over the fact that doffing is no longer fun. Meh.
Seriously, though, can we stop making everything so click-and-slider happy? Yes, that includes the gear Upgrade System.
On another note, the mastery skill tree traits for our ships. Shouldn't the fleet versions or base 10 versions have enhanced base traits to that of the old 9 console versions? So my Fleet Gal X traits should be more potent than that of the standard gal x. At least that's my opinion. I mean, they are already half [REDACTED]ing the upgrades by giving Ex 9 9 console version and 10 console versions the same +1 console and traits. Aside for the +1 console and +10% stats, shouldnt there be a slightly bigger gap between fleet and non-fleet ships? Especially with the new traits.
No, the Mastery passives are the same for all ships. The idea was to keep T5 "competitive" with T6, so all T5-U10, T5-U11, and T6-10 ships have the same Mastery passives based on ship-type (i.e. Carrier, Cruiser, Destroyer, Support Ship, etc.). One can assume that the eventual T6-11 ships will also have the same Mastery passives...
All that pertains to the Ship Upgrade System and the Mastery levels, though... they moved that down to the Redshirt section for some reason.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Not sure if this has been picked up already and wasn't scrolling through 49 pages to check.
When trying to obtain beam weapon upgrade tokens "Improved Tech Upgrade - Beam Technology" I'm short on emitter modules so click on the details tab to bring up the list of requirements and then click on the emitter modules to craft the appropriate components to allow me to make the upgrade token. However instead of emitter modules it brings up "Component - Focusing Lens" instead so it appears that link is pointing at the wrong item. The "Basic Tech Upgrade - Beam Weapons" on the other hand say's it needs focusing lens and when you try to craft these actually brings up emitter arrays so it appears these two links are the wrong way around.
Haven't been able to check all other upgrades as my crafting level isn't high enough at the moment but did check improved upgrades on Engineering, Ground Weapons and Shields and they are ok.
Yeah... the clickiness of the newer systems is pretty godawful. That's why I no longer bother to self-select doffs, thanks to the UI... though the wait for the darn assignments and crafting projects to finish is why I'm still doffing less even though I've gotten over the fact that doffing is no longer fun. Meh.
Seriously, though, can we stop making everything so click-and-slider happy? Yes, that includes the gear Upgrade System.
No, the Mastery passives are the same for all ships. The idea was to keep T5 "competitive" with T6, so all T5-U10, T5-U11, and T6-10 ships have the same Mastery passives based on ship-type (i.e. Carrier, Cruiser, Destroyer, Support Ship, etc.). One can assume that the eventual T6-11 ships will also have the same Mastery passives...
All that pertains to the Ship Upgrade System and the Mastery levels, though... they moved that down to the Redshirt section for some reason.
Clicking and sliding is the least of all the issues here. Sure, its just as needless as the resource sink, but I can tolerate clicking and sliding. But I bet we wouldn't have to do that so much if they adhere to our requests.
Thanks for the thread link. Although you still didn't quite answer my question. Fleet is superior to non-fleet (lobi/lockbox/event ships excluded). Therefore, shouldn't the new passives be as well? As it stands, you can't be competitive with a 9 console ship, there's really no point in trying. That's why we get fleet ships. But I digress. If the ex-9 console gone 10 console ship gets plus 15% hull as a mastery passive, shouldn't fleet be plus 20%? T5-FU is not competitive with T6. Battle Cloak plus TR-116B torpedo plus a heavy plasma lance will beat my Fleet Gal X every time. Assuming, of course, its a PvP between us "veterans" if you will. So competitiveness with a T6 is out the window.
Also, are the ship mastery passive traits actually passive? Or do they have to be slotted?
Not sure if this has been picked up already and wasn't scrolling through 49 pages to check.
When trying to obtain beam weapon upgrade tokens "Improved Tech Upgrade - Beam Technology" I'm short on emitter modules so click on the details tab to bring up the list of requirements and then click on the emitter modules to craft the appropriate components to allow me to make the upgrade token. However instead of emitter modules it brings up "Component - Focusing Lens" instead so it appears that link is pointing at the wrong item. The "Basic Tech Upgrade - Beam Weapons" on the other hand say's it needs focusing lens and when you try to craft these actually brings up emitter arrays so it appears these two links are the wrong way around.
Haven't been able to check all other upgrades as my crafting level isn't high enough at the moment but did check improved upgrades on Engineering, Ground Weapons and Shields and they are ok.
Typical Cryptic programming. Unfortunately, that's your answer.
Another request, as multiple upgrade tokens are needed for each item can we please have a slider that allows multiple upgrade tokens to be queued similar to components rather than just having one going in each slot at any time.
From a quick glance it looks like we'll be needing hundreds of upgrade tokens just to get one toon and ship up to Mk14 level with all our existing equipment so it would make it less painful to be able to queue multiple projects.
Also please leave the R&D XP granted from these tokens as it is on tribble as its going to make the R&D grind take a reasonable amount of time if you're also using it to craft these upgrades rather than the many months its currently taking to get to level 15 if you log in each day.
Edited to add the following observations:
The following can't be upgraded at all Assimilated Mk12 Transwarp Engines (Borg Set) - an old Mk 11 set can, Omega Force Mk 12 Impulse engines (an old Mk 10 set again can). Proton Stablizer Console Mk 12.
Also the following levelless equipment doesn't appear to want to convert to Mk 12 and allow upgrade:
Crystal-Woven Environmental Suit set (EV Suit, Shield and Weapon) - This is the old pre-rep set that was gained by completing missions on Nukara rather than the set gained through the rep and could be traded in for 50 marks if desired (which you could only do once as well even if you had multiple copies).
Wide Angled Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Breen Transphasic Torpedo Launcher
Federation Combat Environmental Suit (Vet version from the ESD console - presumably applies to all the faction versions)
Obelisek Warp Core
Assimilated Console
Another request, as multiple upgrade tokens are needed for each item can we please have a slider that allows multiple upgrade tokens to be queued similar to components rather than just having one going in each slot at any time.
This would be far more functional and usable than the current system where you have to click for every single upgrade token. I'm reminded of how in the first Tribble build of the new S9.5 R&D system all of the old crafting data samples and particle traces had to be converted one at a time; the addition of sliders made that a far superior experience, even if it wasn't the best possible solution.
From a quick glance it looks like we'll be needing hundreds of upgrade tokens just to get one toon and ship up to Mk14 level with all our existing equipment so it would make it less painful to be able to queue multiple projects.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
This would be far more functional and usable than the current system where you have to click for every single upgrade token. I'm reminded of how in the first Tribble build of the new S9.5 R&D system all of the old crafting data samples and particle traces had to be converted one at a time; the addition of sliders made that a far superior experience, even if it wasn't the best possible solution.
Hundreds, if not thousands.
Queuing multiple projects would be nice but I still rather have an overall price decrease in conjunction with the ability to upgrade a stack of items simultaneously. like my Accx2 dmgx2 fleet weapons.
I don't have problems with prices of upgrades but something must be done with all of these bound to character items. I will not upgrade any single item that's bound to char.
I don't have problems with prices of upgrades but something must be done with all of these bound to character items. I will not upgrade any single item that's bound to char.
Can you explain why something that was originally bound to character shouldn't be after its upgraded? If what you want comes to fruition, we will be looking at Mk XIV gold fleet gear on the exchange. Which is lost money for Cryptic/PWE, because then people wont need to upgrade. They would just buy the Mk XIV's outright. Not to say that's a bad idea but prices are the issue since we can't get Mk XIV gear outside of the upgrade system as it stands right now.
So, if you like the prices as is, more power to you. But it won't hurt you if they drop. So I'd say, on that note, passive acceptance.
Are upgraded gear to remain whatever they are in the first place? If you upgrade a bound weapon for example, it stays bound. If you upgrade a beam bank though that isn't bound, it still stays unbound, or at least that is my understanding of it. I could be wrong though.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
we will be looking at Mk XIV gold fleet gear on the exchange. Which is lost money for Cryptic/PWE, because then people wont need to upgrade.
won't that happen either way if you craft a weapon or get a generic drop, then upgrade it to gold and sell? or does it get auto bound when you try to upgrade it?
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
won't that happen either way if you craft a weapon or get a generic drop, then upgrade it to gold and sell? or does it get auto bound when you try to upgrade it?
Incorrect. Just tested. Took a white stun phaser all the way up to Epic and posted it on the Tribble exchange. Items that do not start bound become Account Bind on Equip, which can be sold as long as you don't equip them.
Incorrect. Just tested. Took a white stun phaser all the way up to Epic and posted it on the Tribble exchange. Items that do not start bound become Account Bind on Equip, which can be sold as long as you don't equip them.
Cool!!! That's how I was hoping it would work. Makes sense.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Incorrect. Just tested. Took a white stun phaser all the way up to Epic and posted it on the Tribble exchange. Items that do not start bound become Account Bind on Equip, which can be sold as long as you don't equip them.
Well that's good but it won't matter. I already spent a small fortune getting the stuff I already have. So my issues still stand. But it does provide an opportunity to make money. Assuming the upgrade price is right.
Well that's good but it won't matter. I already spent a small fortune getting the stuff I already have. So my issues still stand. But it does provide an opportunity to make money. Assuming the upgrade price is right.
Cheaper to take a low mark VR item up in rarity than a high one using dil. Since crafting mk II VR stuff is ridiculously easy and cheap, you could just craft it and upgrade it.
Cheaper to take a low mark VR item up in rarity than a high one using dil. Since crafting mk II VR stuff is ridiculously easy and cheap, you could just craft it and upgrade it.
No it's NOT cheaper. In the overall scheme of things. Like I said. I already spent a small fortune on my gear. I'm not gonna get rid of it just to craft a lower item and upgrade it. Plus, there is no Mk II Borg engines is there? That solution simply does not work. See, your solution works for just the player who just putt putts around in-game with no long term objective in-mind. Then, there are people like me who made an objective and reached it which cost countless hours of grinding to say the least. Not to mention all the marks, EC, Dilithium, yadda yadda yadda that went into it. And now your saying.... "well ditch the stuff you worked for because its cheaper to upgrade low grade items to top". That, literally, is throwing everything I've done out the window. Now how is upgrading from Mk II to mk XIV VR or UR cheaper? If mk XII to mk XIV is too expensive as it is, how does adding upgrading from Mk II to Mk XII make it cheaper? Does it have to do with the accumulated TP? I'd assume so, since you have more time to get TP when upgrading from a lower Mk. But, regardless, the new upgrade system is definitely more geared toward those who, like me, have the "good stuff" so-to-speak. But if what you are saying is true, that means new players have to spend a hell of a lot less getting Mk XIV gear than those who have already ground and paid for their current top end gear. That's just unfair.
No it's NOT cheaper. In the overall scheme of things. Like I said. I already spent a small fortune on my gear. I'm not gonna get rid of it just to craft a lower item and upgrade it. Plus, there is no Mk II Borg engines is there? That solution simply does not work. See, your solution works for just the player who just putt putts around in-game with no long term objective in-mind. Then, there are people like me who made an objective and reached it which cost countless hours of grinding to say the least. Not to mention all the marks, EC, Dilithium, yadda yadda yadda that went into it. And now your saying.... "well ditch the stuff you worked for because its cheaper to upgrade low grade items to top". That, literally, is throwing everything I've done out the window. Now how is upgrading from Mk II to mk XIV VR or UR cheaper? If mk XII to mk XIV is too expensive as it is, how does adding upgrading from Mk II to Mk XII make it cheaper? Does it have to do with the accumulated TP? I'd assume so, since you have more time to get TP when upgrading from a lower Mk. But, regardless, the new upgrade system is definitely more geared toward those who, like me, have the "good stuff" so-to-speak. But if what you are saying is true, that means new players have to spend a hell of a lot less getting Mk XIV gear than those who have already ground and paid for their Mk XII's. That's just unfair.
You do realize there is no substitute for some of the best gear in the game so upgrading from mk XII is the only option anyway.
So in general, most of us will have to grind the same way. Now if someone wants to use regular consoles and weapons and upgrade them up all the way, then they can too, and it's a good alternate option so as to not have to farm ridiculous amounts of dil.
It just simply will not be good enough and you sidestepped my point. New players will be able to get Mk XIV gear easier and cheaper than the veterans and/or long time players who have put money and countless hours into this game. That is, undeniably, unfair.
At this point, veterans and long time players should get at least some slack. I don't mind grinding like 2-5k dil here and there but that's pretty much my max at this point. I want to play the game and have fun, not log in for the sole purpose of grinding and farming just so I can get to exactly where I already am right now.
Your suggestion is an alternative, but not an amicable one. At least for the people this upgrade system is geared towards.
It just simply will not be good enough and you sidestepped my point. New players will be able to get Mk XIV gear easier and cheaper than the veterans and/or long time players who have put money and countless hours into this game. That is, undeniably, unfair.
Where do you get that idea from?
Nobody currently has Mk XIV gear. We're all starting out on the same somewhat (un)even playing field. We can all craft it and upgrade it or buy it and upgrade it. I'm sure the new missions will have at least a few drops of gear that won't have to be upgraded unless you're set on having all Epic rarity gear. If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't. And I'm confident a few enterprising souls will sell you Mk XIV off the Exchange for a few hundred thousand EP.
How do new players get an advantage? I don't understand that logic at all.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Nobody currently has Mk XIV gear. We're all starting out on the same somewhat (un)even playing field. We can all craft it and upgrade it or buy it and upgrade it. I'm sure the new missions will have at least a few drops of gear that won't have to be upgraded unless you're set on having all Epic rarity gear. If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't. And I'm confident a few enterprising souls will sell you Mk XIV off the Exchange for a few hundred thousand EP.
How do new players get an advantage? I don't understand that logic at all.
Simple. upgrading from a low mk (like mk II) to mk XIV (not epic) is cheaper than upgrading from mk XII to mk XIV (not gold) airgo. New players can keep their low gear and upgrade as they level up which will cost less. Therefore, they are spending/grinding less than we have. There are no Mk XIV drops. That is confirmed. And I agree, "If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't.", but due to the above stated fact, that is not the case. Which is where my problem is. Follow my logic now? Also, I didn't say it was an advantage, just that it was undeniably unfair.
Simple. upgrading from a low mk (like mk II) to mk XIV (not epic) is cheaper than upgrading from mk XII to mk XIV (not gold) airgo. New players can keep their low gear and upgrade as they level up which will cost less. Therefore, they are spending/grinding less than we have. There are no Mk XIV drops. That is confirmed. And I agree, "If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't.", but due to the above stated fact, that is not the case. Which is where my problem is. Follow my logic now? Also, I didn't say it was an advantage, just that it was undeniably unfair.
Stop.
First - have you actually seen the system on Tribble? Have you tried it? I have, and it seems, from the things that you are saying, that you have not, because you don't seem to understand how it works, what the goals of it are, and why it works the way it does. If you can't access Tribble, I understand the desire to "have your voice heard", but honestly if you haven't actually used the system, your feedback ultimately boils down to "I heard it was really expensive, and I don't want to pay that". That's fine, as far as it goes, but you keep reacting to specific details without, I think, really understanding how the system works, which is probably not a good idea.
For example:
You are completely misunderstanding what was being said/suggested here. It's not cheaper to upgrade a Mk II weapon to Mk XIV than it is to go from Mk XII to Mk XIV. Not only would that not make any sense, but it's literally impossible if you've actually used the system, because you have to increase the Mk level of the item one at a time. Thus, to go from Mk II to Mk XIV, you, by definition, have to ALSO go from Mk XII to Mk XIV, with all the attendant costs.
What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper, because the upgrades for low mark items are much cheaper, and each one gives you a chance to get the rarity upgrade. Once you get the rarity to Epic, you can level it to Mk XIV knowing that each time you fill the TP bar, you are certain to get the Mk upgrade, so it's a way to potentially control costs for epic rarity gear. It would still me more expensive in terms of Mk upgrades, however.
The long and short of it is, right now this system has some really interesting hooks for people who think about how to best use the system, such as opening up the possibility that people who are just starting crafting might still find a market for the lucky very rare quality (but low mark) gear they craft, by selling it on the exchange to someone who is looking for something with the "right" mods to upgrade to epic.
First - have you actually seen the system on Tribble? Have you tried it? I have, and it seems, from the things that you are saying, that you have not, because you don't seem to understand how it works, what the goals of it are, and why it works the way it does. If you can't access Tribble, I understand the desire to "have your voice heard", but honestly if you haven't actually used the system, your feedback ultimately boils down to "I heard it was really expensive, and I don't want to pay that". That's fine, as far as it goes, but you keep reacting to specific details without, I think, really understanding how the system works, which is probably not a good idea.
For example:
You are completely misunderstanding what was being said/suggested here. It's not cheaper to upgrade a Mk II weapon to Mk XIV than it is to go from Mk XII to Mk XIV. Not only would that not make any sense, but it's literally impossible if you've actually used the system, because you have to increase the Mk level of the item one at a time. Thus, to go from Mk II to Mk XIV, you, by definition, have to ALSO go from Mk XII to Mk XIV, with all the attendant costs.
What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper, because the upgrades for low mark items are much cheaper, and each one gives you a chance to get the rarity upgrade. Once you get the rarity to Epic, you can level it to Mk XIV knowing that each time you fill the TP bar, you are certain to get the Mk upgrade, so it's a way to potentially control costs for epic rarity gear. It would still me more expensive in terms of Mk upgrades, however.
The long and short of it is, right now this system has some really interesting hooks for people who think about how to best use the system, such as opening up the possibility that people who are just starting crafting might still find a market for the lucky very rare quality (but low mark) gear they craft, by selling it on the exchange to someone who is looking for something with the "right" mods to upgrade to epic.
Stop.
Have you read this thread? I've said that I don't have access to Tribble and have asked for clarification on many things since I don't.
"What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper", we were not talking about getting to epic quality when that suggestion came up, so that never occurred to me. And I asked for clarification even on that. Even so, that would mean new players could get to mk XIV gold at lot easier than vets who ground and spent countless hours getting their mk XII gear. So I'm not talking out my [REDACTED] that you are insinuating I am. The only one who has said anything about Epic quality in the past few pages is you. I have no idea where epic quality even came into play until you stepped in. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit#gid=0
That's the basis to my issue with prices, which happens to be fact. So again, I'm not talking out my [REDACTED].
So now I have one person saying its cheaper to upgrade from Mk II to mk XIV and another person saying its not. Seeing how I can't see for myself for no damn good reason, this is why it may appear that I don't know what I'm talking about. But given that the first guy has kept up with the thread, I will trust his judgement, no offense.
"The long and short of it is", that we, not just me, are not O.K. with these prices. That's one thing. Everything else that has been brought up from, uni console bugs, to standard console bugs, etc etc, come under that. Because not many will use the system anyways if the price is too high.
Stop.
Have you read this thread? I've said that I don't have access to Tribble and have asked for clarification on many things since I don't.
"What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper", we were not talking about getting to epic quality when that suggestion came up, so that never occurred to me. And I asked for clarification even on that. So I'm not talking out my [REDACTED] that you are insinuating I am. The only one who has said anything about Epic quality in the past few pages is you. I have no idea where epic quality even came into play until you stepped in. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit#gid=0
That's the basis to my issue with prices, which happens to be fact. So again, I'm not talking out my [REDACTED].
So now I have one person saying its cheaper to upgrade from Mk II to mk XIV and another person saying its not. Seeing how I can't see for myself for no damn good reason, this is why it may appear that I don't know what I'm talking about. But given that the first guy has kept up with the thread, I will trust his judgement, no offense.
"The long and short of it is", that we, not just me, are not O.K. with these prices. That's one thing. Everything else that has been brought up from, uni console bugs, to standard console bugs, etc etc, come under that. Because not many will use the system anyways if the price is too high.
Yes, I have read this thread, and have even attempted several times to correct your misconceptions about how things work, what the costs really are, and why they seem to me to be reasonable, at least for the Mk XIV upgrades, which is all you really seem to care about anyway.
I apologize for being polite and trying to skirt around the issue - I'm fully aware that you don't have access to the system, if for no other reason than the level of your misunderstanding about it makes it obvious. What I was attempting to imply is that, given your lack of knowledge about how the system actually works, the only feedback you can possibly give at this point that has any realistic value is "I think this costs too much". That's it. You simply don't know enough about how the system works, and every time someone tries to explain it in more detail you seem to get it more confused, such that the people who actually DO understand the system can't seem to talk about it without you butting in.
Here's a tip - the post you first responded to with outrage at the idea about the upgrades being cheaper for low level gear. Go read that post again. Note that he talks about a rarity upgrade. I'm not the one that missed the boat - I knew instantly what he was talking about, because I have used the system, and I understand clearly the difference between upgrading rarity, and upgrading Mk level. Stop waving around that spreadsheet and pretending that it gives you any insight into the system except, MAYBE, for the idea that you, personally, don't like the costs. That feedback has been given.
They are almost certainly not going to reduce the base costs for the Mk upgrades, nor do I think they should, because, as I noted way back when (and as the spreadsheet you love makes clear), the cost for just the Mk upgrades, for an entire ship, looks to be about 300,000 dilithium, which is less than what I paid for my current gear, and much less than I think a reasonable person would expect to pay if buying all new very rare Mk XIV gear from either the fleet stores or the reputation stores.
Here another thing you seem to not understand - you think the cost of the system should mostly be tied up in getting to Epic, not to getting to Mk XIV, but you don't seem to realize that's actually how the system is already set up. Right now it takes about 17000 dilithium to take a Mk XII weapon to Mk XIV. It's possible that you will get crazy lucky and get your rarity upgrades at the same time, but it's much more likely you will have to spend another 24000 dilithium for each additional try at that upgrade. My estimate is that most people will have to spend around 240000 dilithium beyond the upgrade cost per piece to get to Epic rarity. So, looking at those numbers, do you see why it seems strange to people to hear you talk about how the cost should be on getting Epic, not Mk XIV?
Yes, I have read this thread, and have even attempted several times to correct your misconceptions about how things work, what the costs really are, and why they seem to me to be reasonable, at least for the Mk XIV upgrades, which is all you really seem to care about anyway.
I apologize for being polite and trying to skirt around the issue - I'm fully aware that you don't have access to the system, if for no other reason than the level of your misunderstanding about it makes it obvious. What I was attempting to imply is that, given your lack of knowledge about how the system actually works, the only feedback you can possibly give at this point that has any realistic value is "I think this costs too much". That's it. You simply don't know enough about how the system works, and every time someone tries to explain it in more detail you seem to get it more confused, such that the people who actually DO understand the system can't seem to talk about it without you butting in.
Here's a tip - the post you first responded to with outrage at the idea about the upgrades being cheaper for low level gear. Go read that post again. Note that he talks about a rarity upgrade. I'm not the one that missed the boat - I knew instantly what he was talking about, because I have used the system, and I understand clearly the difference between upgrading rarity, and upgrading Mk level. Stop waving around that spreadsheet and pretending that it gives you any insight into the system except, MAYBE, for the idea that you, personally, don't like the costs. That feedback has been given.
They are almost certainly not going to reduce the base costs for the Mk upgrades, nor do I think they should, because, as I noted way back when (and as the spreadsheet you love makes clear), the cost for just the Mk upgrades, for an entire ship, looks to be about 300,000 dilithium, which is less than what I paid for my current gear, and much less than I think a reasonable person would expect to pay if buying all new very rare Mk XIV gear from either the fleet stores or the reputation stores.
Here another thing you seem to not understand - you think the cost of the system should mostly be tied up in getting to Epic, not to getting to Mk XIV, but you don't seem to realize that's actually how the system is already set up. Right now it takes about 17000 dilithium to take a Mk XII weapon to Mk XIV. It's possible that you will get crazy lucky and get your rarity upgrades at the same time, but it's much more likely you will have to spend another 24000 dilithium for each additional try at that upgrade. My estimate is that most people will have to spend around 240000 dilithium beyond the upgrade cost per piece to get to Epic rarity. So, looking at those numbers, do you see why it seems strange to people to hear you talk about how the cost should be on getting Epic, not Mk XIV?
I haven't missed anything. There is MUCH more to factor in than just the dilithium to upgrade. You have to factor in what resources you spend to get all the superior kits you need in the first place to have even the option to upgrade. And then you have to factor in outside expenses, like ship upgrades. And then, you have to take into account not ONLY what you paid, but the time you put into getting what we have now. Its only 300k if you already have all the means to get the kits, or already have the kits. Not the cost if you don't have the kits which none of us will have upon the drop of the expansion. So, overall, the resource sink is too much.
Fine, you like the prices as is. More power to you. It won't affect you at all to have them dropped. So, on that note, have some passive acceptance over it and stop making conflict by arguing. It doesn't make sense for you to argue your POV because if the price drops you won't be impacted in any way that would be worth arguing over. If anything, more people, like yourself, will be happy. Unless that's not what you want? But I digress.
You have, however, shed some perspective on this and have made me feel a bit more optimistic. But I'm still gonna keep to my guns.
I haven't missed anything. There is MUCH more to factor in than just the dilithium to upgrade. You have to factor in what resources you spend to get all the superior kits you need in the first place to have even the option to upgrade. And then you have to factor in outside expenses, like ship upgrades. And then, you have to take into account not ONLY what you paid, but the time you put into getting what we have now. Its only 300k if you already have all the means to get the kits, or already have the kits. Not the cost if you don't have the kits which none of us will have upon the drop of the expansion. So, overall, the resource sink is too much.
Fine, you like the prices as is. More power to you. It won't affect you at all to have them dropped. So, on that note, have some passive acceptance over it and stop making conflict by arguing. It doesn't make sense for you to argue your POV because if the price drops you won't be impacted in any way that would be worth arguing over. If anything, more people, like yourself, will be happy. Unless that's not what you want? But I digress.
Looking at current holodeck prices, currently a superior kit project, if you buy all the components from the exchange, costs about 800,000 ec to run. Note, though, that some cost much less, owing to a difference in prices for the very rare materials (which, in turn, is due to a wide disparity in how often the different ques are being run, and how many of them offer which material). That said, you should also know that by the time you are a high enough crafting level to actually make the superior kits, your crit chance is high enough that you have (IIRC) over a 75% chance of hitting a crit and getting 3 kits for the price of one. Thus, it seems likely that at the high end, the cost for superior kits will be in the 1 million EC range, and actually they can be profitable at a much lower price - even as low as 400,000 ec, assuming you're getting regular crits. Note that this also creates incentives for people to specialize further - it might be a more profitable strategy for a crafter to level one relatively rare crafting school to 20, to max out crit chance, and then sell superior kits from that school and undercut the competition due to a higher overall crit chance.
In other words, I'm not forgetting those "other costs" at all, I'm thinking clearly about them, and how they may encourage player behaviors that I think are good - such as providing markets for both low Mk/High Quality crafted gear for low level crafters, and also providing opportunities for people who specialize to profit as well. Heck, the system also encourages more players to participate in the overall economy of the game, either by crafting directly, or by buying the kits and gear crafters are making.
This is also the first part of my answer to your "passive acceptance" argument. Your argument is predicated on looking at the system only through the lens of how you perceive it directly affecting you. I'm taking a wider look, and understanding that overall it has the potential to shake up the game in really interesting ways, some of which, yes, are tied to the cost structure of the system, and how that structure encourages specific behaviors.
I also think you still really have no conception of why it is not just "fair" but actively necessary that Cryptic see a tidy return on this expansion - the alternate revenue streams you have referred to in the past (and will almost certainly refer to in the future) don't seem likely to cover the additional development work that went into all this new content. Instead, it seems like that revenue stream is likely largely soaked by the base, day to day costs of running the game. For something like Delta Rising, with it's obvious investments of both time and money, Cryptic needs to see a unique return on that investment, above and beyond the "standard" revenue streams they already have. In the olden days, they likely would have gotten that return by charging ~$20-$30 per player for the expansion pack. Nowadays, they know people expect this kind of content expansion to be "free", so they have to have other ways to make their money. Hence, the upgrade system and its attendant costs. If Delta Rising doesn't make money, there basically won't be a third expansion, and thus there may simply not be a STO either.
Oh, and before you throw "But Tier 6 ships will sell and make money!", bear in mind that, absent the release of Delta Rising, we almost certainly would have had continuing ship releases as we have in the past - thus, it's likely that internally Cryptic thinks of Tier 6 less as a brand new revenue stream, and more of a continuation of the current C-store ship stream. It's not, in other words, making them money they would not have had prior to Delta Rising, but rather REPLACING the revenue they would have otherwise made by continuing to release Tier 5 C-store ships.
In other words - I have used the system, I know what it costs (I even researched the costs for materials on holodeck to double check my impressions), I have thought about those costs and how they are likely to change (or not) depending on how people react to the upgrade system, I have thought about how those costs might affect player behavior, I have thought about the likely affects of those behaviors on the overall health of the game, I have considered Cryptic's motives and needs, and I suspect strongly that there is more to the system than we have seen (such as a way through either the C-store or the new Elite Ques to get items which will significantly reduce the costs to upgrade rarity levels) which will make it even better. Thus, my conclusion is that the current system, as it is, seems like a finely balanced attempt to enliven the STO player economy and make getting "the best" gear into something more than simply buying it from an NPC store. Since I feel like the attempt has a decent chance of succeeding (as long as people take the time to educate themselves on the new system) I support it. Since changing the costs would likely both hurt Cryptic's bottom line AND break the parts of the system designed to spark the player economy, I think your proposal reducing the costs is not just unnecessary, but actively counter-productive to the long (and short, really) term health of the game.
You are perfectly entitled to feel like thinking about the game as a whole is meaningless, or impossible, or what have you. I obviously disagree, but if all you care about is how you perceive the costs to you, personally, that is your right. I would suggest, however, that given that you still don't have access to the system, nor have a clear grasp of how/why it interfaces with the rest of the economy of the game (which, to be fair, I don't really have a certain grasp either - I just think my informed guess is likely to be much closer to the intention than your uninformed one), maybe you should wait until you do, in fact, have some real information with which to base your feedback on.
Comments
Its called typical Cryptic programming..... Dum dee dum... just more wood for the fire.
On another note, the mastery skill tree traits for our ships. Shouldn't the fleet versions or base 10 versions have enhanced base traits to that of the old 9 console versions? So my Fleet Gal X traits should be more potent than that of the standard gal x. At least that's my opinion. I mean, they are already half [REDACTED]ing the upgrades by giving Ex 9 9 console version and 10 console versions the same +1 console and traits. Aside for the +1 console and +10% stats, shouldnt there be a slightly bigger gap between fleet and non-fleet ships? Especially with the new traits.
Yeah... the clickiness of the newer systems is pretty godawful. That's why I no longer bother to self-select doffs, thanks to the UI... though the wait for the darn assignments and crafting projects to finish is why I'm still doffing less even though I've gotten over the fact that doffing is no longer fun. Meh.
Seriously, though, can we stop making everything so click-and-slider happy? Yes, that includes the gear Upgrade System.
No, the Mastery passives are the same for all ships. The idea was to keep T5 "competitive" with T6, so all T5-U10, T5-U11, and T6-10 ships have the same Mastery passives based on ship-type (i.e. Carrier, Cruiser, Destroyer, Support Ship, etc.). One can assume that the eventual T6-11 ships will also have the same Mastery passives...
All that pertains to the Ship Upgrade System and the Mastery levels, though... they moved that down to the Redshirt section for some reason.
When trying to obtain beam weapon upgrade tokens "Improved Tech Upgrade - Beam Technology" I'm short on emitter modules so click on the details tab to bring up the list of requirements and then click on the emitter modules to craft the appropriate components to allow me to make the upgrade token. However instead of emitter modules it brings up "Component - Focusing Lens" instead so it appears that link is pointing at the wrong item. The "Basic Tech Upgrade - Beam Weapons" on the other hand say's it needs focusing lens and when you try to craft these actually brings up emitter arrays so it appears these two links are the wrong way around.
Haven't been able to check all other upgrades as my crafting level isn't high enough at the moment but did check improved upgrades on Engineering, Ground Weapons and Shields and they are ok.
Clicking and sliding is the least of all the issues here. Sure, its just as needless as the resource sink, but I can tolerate clicking and sliding. But I bet we wouldn't have to do that so much if they adhere to our requests.
Thanks for the thread link. Although you still didn't quite answer my question. Fleet is superior to non-fleet (lobi/lockbox/event ships excluded). Therefore, shouldn't the new passives be as well? As it stands, you can't be competitive with a 9 console ship, there's really no point in trying. That's why we get fleet ships. But I digress. If the ex-9 console gone 10 console ship gets plus 15% hull as a mastery passive, shouldn't fleet be plus 20%? T5-FU is not competitive with T6. Battle Cloak plus TR-116B torpedo plus a heavy plasma lance will beat my Fleet Gal X every time. Assuming, of course, its a PvP between us "veterans" if you will. So competitiveness with a T6 is out the window.
Also, are the ship mastery passive traits actually passive? Or do they have to be slotted?
Typical Cryptic programming. Unfortunately, that's your answer.
From a quick glance it looks like we'll be needing hundreds of upgrade tokens just to get one toon and ship up to Mk14 level with all our existing equipment so it would make it less painful to be able to queue multiple projects.
Also please leave the R&D XP granted from these tokens as it is on tribble as its going to make the R&D grind take a reasonable amount of time if you're also using it to craft these upgrades rather than the many months its currently taking to get to level 15 if you log in each day.
Edited to add the following observations:
The following can't be upgraded at all Assimilated Mk12 Transwarp Engines (Borg Set) - an old Mk 11 set can, Omega Force Mk 12 Impulse engines (an old Mk 10 set again can). Proton Stablizer Console Mk 12.
Also the following levelless equipment doesn't appear to want to convert to Mk 12 and allow upgrade:
Crystal-Woven Environmental Suit set (EV Suit, Shield and Weapon) - This is the old pre-rep set that was gained by completing missions on Nukara rather than the set gained through the rep and could be traded in for 50 marks if desired (which you could only do once as well even if you had multiple copies).
Wide Angled Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Breen Transphasic Torpedo Launcher
Federation Combat Environmental Suit (Vet version from the ESD console - presumably applies to all the faction versions)
Obelisek Warp Core
Assimilated Console
Yeah that's been reported.
This would be far more functional and usable than the current system where you have to click for every single upgrade token. I'm reminded of how in the first Tribble build of the new S9.5 R&D system all of the old crafting data samples and particle traces had to be converted one at a time; the addition of sliders made that a far superior experience, even if it wasn't the best possible solution.
Hundreds, if not thousands.
Joined January 2009
Queuing multiple projects would be nice but I still rather have an overall price decrease in conjunction with the ability to upgrade a stack of items simultaneously. like my Accx2 dmgx2 fleet weapons.
Can you explain why something that was originally bound to character shouldn't be after its upgraded? If what you want comes to fruition, we will be looking at Mk XIV gold fleet gear on the exchange. Which is lost money for Cryptic/PWE, because then people wont need to upgrade. They would just buy the Mk XIV's outright. Not to say that's a bad idea but prices are the issue since we can't get Mk XIV gear outside of the upgrade system as it stands right now.
So, if you like the prices as is, more power to you. But it won't hurt you if they drop. So I'd say, on that note, passive acceptance.
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We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Far as I know it auto-binds.
Incorrect. Just tested. Took a white stun phaser all the way up to Epic and posted it on the Tribble exchange. Items that do not start bound become Account Bind on Equip, which can be sold as long as you don't equip them.
Cool!!!
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Well that's good but it won't matter. I already spent a small fortune getting the stuff I already have. So my issues still stand. But it does provide an opportunity to make money. Assuming the upgrade price is right.
Cheaper to take a low mark VR item up in rarity than a high one using dil. Since crafting mk II VR stuff is ridiculously easy and cheap, you could just craft it and upgrade it.
No it's NOT cheaper. In the overall scheme of things. Like I said. I already spent a small fortune on my gear. I'm not gonna get rid of it just to craft a lower item and upgrade it. Plus, there is no Mk II Borg engines is there? That solution simply does not work. See, your solution works for just the player who just putt putts around in-game with no long term objective in-mind. Then, there are people like me who made an objective and reached it which cost countless hours of grinding to say the least. Not to mention all the marks, EC, Dilithium, yadda yadda yadda that went into it. And now your saying.... "well ditch the stuff you worked for because its cheaper to upgrade low grade items to top". That, literally, is throwing everything I've done out the window. Now how is upgrading from Mk II to mk XIV VR or UR cheaper? If mk XII to mk XIV is too expensive as it is, how does adding upgrading from Mk II to Mk XII make it cheaper? Does it have to do with the accumulated TP? I'd assume so, since you have more time to get TP when upgrading from a lower Mk. But, regardless, the new upgrade system is definitely more geared toward those who, like me, have the "good stuff" so-to-speak. But if what you are saying is true, that means new players have to spend a hell of a lot less getting Mk XIV gear than those who have already ground and paid for their current top end gear. That's just unfair.
You do realize there is no substitute for some of the best gear in the game so upgrading from mk XII is the only option anyway.
Examples:
Fleet consoles
R&D level 15+ gear
Reputation gear
So in general, most of us will have to grind the same way. Now if someone wants to use regular consoles and weapons and upgrade them up all the way, then they can too, and it's a good alternate option so as to not have to farm ridiculous amounts of dil.
At this point, veterans and long time players should get at least some slack. I don't mind grinding like 2-5k dil here and there but that's pretty much my max at this point. I want to play the game and have fun, not log in for the sole purpose of grinding and farming just so I can get to exactly where I already am right now.
Your suggestion is an alternative, but not an amicable one. At least for the people this upgrade system is geared towards.
Where do you get that idea from?
Nobody currently has Mk XIV gear. We're all starting out on the same somewhat (un)even playing field. We can all craft it and upgrade it or buy it and upgrade it. I'm sure the new missions will have at least a few drops of gear that won't have to be upgraded unless you're set on having all Epic rarity gear. If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't. And I'm confident a few enterprising souls will sell you Mk XIV off the Exchange for a few hundred thousand EP.
How do new players get an advantage? I don't understand that logic at all.
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Simple. upgrading from a low mk (like mk II) to mk XIV (not epic) is cheaper than upgrading from mk XII to mk XIV (not gold) airgo. New players can keep their low gear and upgrade as they level up which will cost less. Therefore, they are spending/grinding less than we have. There are no Mk XIV drops. That is confirmed. And I agree, "If you already have Mk XII VR, you're closer to Mk XIV Epic than someone who doesn't.", but due to the above stated fact, that is not the case. Which is where my problem is. Follow my logic now? Also, I didn't say it was an advantage, just that it was undeniably unfair.
Stop.
First - have you actually seen the system on Tribble? Have you tried it? I have, and it seems, from the things that you are saying, that you have not, because you don't seem to understand how it works, what the goals of it are, and why it works the way it does. If you can't access Tribble, I understand the desire to "have your voice heard", but honestly if you haven't actually used the system, your feedback ultimately boils down to "I heard it was really expensive, and I don't want to pay that". That's fine, as far as it goes, but you keep reacting to specific details without, I think, really understanding how the system works, which is probably not a good idea.
For example:
You are completely misunderstanding what was being said/suggested here. It's not cheaper to upgrade a Mk II weapon to Mk XIV than it is to go from Mk XII to Mk XIV. Not only would that not make any sense, but it's literally impossible if you've actually used the system, because you have to increase the Mk level of the item one at a time. Thus, to go from Mk II to Mk XIV, you, by definition, have to ALSO go from Mk XII to Mk XIV, with all the attendant costs.
What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper, because the upgrades for low mark items are much cheaper, and each one gives you a chance to get the rarity upgrade. Once you get the rarity to Epic, you can level it to Mk XIV knowing that each time you fill the TP bar, you are certain to get the Mk upgrade, so it's a way to potentially control costs for epic rarity gear. It would still me more expensive in terms of Mk upgrades, however.
The long and short of it is, right now this system has some really interesting hooks for people who think about how to best use the system, such as opening up the possibility that people who are just starting crafting might still find a market for the lucky very rare quality (but low mark) gear they craft, by selling it on the exchange to someone who is looking for something with the "right" mods to upgrade to epic.
Have you read this thread? I've said that I don't have access to Tribble and have asked for clarification on many things since I don't.
"What was being suggested, then, was not a way to get Mk XIV gear cheaper, but rather a way to get Epic rarity gear cheaper", we were not talking about getting to epic quality when that suggestion came up, so that never occurred to me. And I asked for clarification even on that. Even so, that would mean new players could get to mk XIV gold at lot easier than vets who ground and spent countless hours getting their mk XII gear. So I'm not talking out my [REDACTED] that you are insinuating I am. The only one who has said anything about Epic quality in the past few pages is you. I have no idea where epic quality even came into play until you stepped in.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit#gid=0
That's the basis to my issue with prices, which happens to be fact. So again, I'm not talking out my [REDACTED].
So now I have one person saying its cheaper to upgrade from Mk II to mk XIV and another person saying its not. Seeing how I can't see for myself for no damn good reason, this is why it may appear that I don't know what I'm talking about. But given that the first guy has kept up with the thread, I will trust his judgement, no offense.
"The long and short of it is", that we, not just me, are not O.K. with these prices. That's one thing. Everything else that has been brought up from, uni console bugs, to standard console bugs, etc etc, come under that. Because not many will use the system anyways if the price is too high.
Yes, I have read this thread, and have even attempted several times to correct your misconceptions about how things work, what the costs really are, and why they seem to me to be reasonable, at least for the Mk XIV upgrades, which is all you really seem to care about anyway.
I apologize for being polite and trying to skirt around the issue - I'm fully aware that you don't have access to the system, if for no other reason than the level of your misunderstanding about it makes it obvious. What I was attempting to imply is that, given your lack of knowledge about how the system actually works, the only feedback you can possibly give at this point that has any realistic value is "I think this costs too much". That's it. You simply don't know enough about how the system works, and every time someone tries to explain it in more detail you seem to get it more confused, such that the people who actually DO understand the system can't seem to talk about it without you butting in.
Here's a tip - the post you first responded to with outrage at the idea about the upgrades being cheaper for low level gear. Go read that post again. Note that he talks about a rarity upgrade. I'm not the one that missed the boat - I knew instantly what he was talking about, because I have used the system, and I understand clearly the difference between upgrading rarity, and upgrading Mk level. Stop waving around that spreadsheet and pretending that it gives you any insight into the system except, MAYBE, for the idea that you, personally, don't like the costs. That feedback has been given.
They are almost certainly not going to reduce the base costs for the Mk upgrades, nor do I think they should, because, as I noted way back when (and as the spreadsheet you love makes clear), the cost for just the Mk upgrades, for an entire ship, looks to be about 300,000 dilithium, which is less than what I paid for my current gear, and much less than I think a reasonable person would expect to pay if buying all new very rare Mk XIV gear from either the fleet stores or the reputation stores.
Here another thing you seem to not understand - you think the cost of the system should mostly be tied up in getting to Epic, not to getting to Mk XIV, but you don't seem to realize that's actually how the system is already set up. Right now it takes about 17000 dilithium to take a Mk XII weapon to Mk XIV. It's possible that you will get crazy lucky and get your rarity upgrades at the same time, but it's much more likely you will have to spend another 24000 dilithium for each additional try at that upgrade. My estimate is that most people will have to spend around 240000 dilithium beyond the upgrade cost per piece to get to Epic rarity. So, looking at those numbers, do you see why it seems strange to people to hear you talk about how the cost should be on getting Epic, not Mk XIV?
Fine, you like the prices as is. More power to you. It won't affect you at all to have them dropped. So, on that note, have some passive acceptance over it and stop making conflict by arguing. It doesn't make sense for you to argue your POV because if the price drops you won't be impacted in any way that would be worth arguing over. If anything, more people, like yourself, will be happy. Unless that's not what you want? But I digress.
You have, however, shed some perspective on this and have made me feel a bit more optimistic. But I'm still gonna keep to my guns.
Looking at current holodeck prices, currently a superior kit project, if you buy all the components from the exchange, costs about 800,000 ec to run. Note, though, that some cost much less, owing to a difference in prices for the very rare materials (which, in turn, is due to a wide disparity in how often the different ques are being run, and how many of them offer which material). That said, you should also know that by the time you are a high enough crafting level to actually make the superior kits, your crit chance is high enough that you have (IIRC) over a 75% chance of hitting a crit and getting 3 kits for the price of one. Thus, it seems likely that at the high end, the cost for superior kits will be in the 1 million EC range, and actually they can be profitable at a much lower price - even as low as 400,000 ec, assuming you're getting regular crits. Note that this also creates incentives for people to specialize further - it might be a more profitable strategy for a crafter to level one relatively rare crafting school to 20, to max out crit chance, and then sell superior kits from that school and undercut the competition due to a higher overall crit chance.
In other words, I'm not forgetting those "other costs" at all, I'm thinking clearly about them, and how they may encourage player behaviors that I think are good - such as providing markets for both low Mk/High Quality crafted gear for low level crafters, and also providing opportunities for people who specialize to profit as well. Heck, the system also encourages more players to participate in the overall economy of the game, either by crafting directly, or by buying the kits and gear crafters are making.
This is also the first part of my answer to your "passive acceptance" argument. Your argument is predicated on looking at the system only through the lens of how you perceive it directly affecting you. I'm taking a wider look, and understanding that overall it has the potential to shake up the game in really interesting ways, some of which, yes, are tied to the cost structure of the system, and how that structure encourages specific behaviors.
I also think you still really have no conception of why it is not just "fair" but actively necessary that Cryptic see a tidy return on this expansion - the alternate revenue streams you have referred to in the past (and will almost certainly refer to in the future) don't seem likely to cover the additional development work that went into all this new content. Instead, it seems like that revenue stream is likely largely soaked by the base, day to day costs of running the game. For something like Delta Rising, with it's obvious investments of both time and money, Cryptic needs to see a unique return on that investment, above and beyond the "standard" revenue streams they already have. In the olden days, they likely would have gotten that return by charging ~$20-$30 per player for the expansion pack. Nowadays, they know people expect this kind of content expansion to be "free", so they have to have other ways to make their money. Hence, the upgrade system and its attendant costs. If Delta Rising doesn't make money, there basically won't be a third expansion, and thus there may simply not be a STO either.
Oh, and before you throw "But Tier 6 ships will sell and make money!", bear in mind that, absent the release of Delta Rising, we almost certainly would have had continuing ship releases as we have in the past - thus, it's likely that internally Cryptic thinks of Tier 6 less as a brand new revenue stream, and more of a continuation of the current C-store ship stream. It's not, in other words, making them money they would not have had prior to Delta Rising, but rather REPLACING the revenue they would have otherwise made by continuing to release Tier 5 C-store ships.
In other words - I have used the system, I know what it costs (I even researched the costs for materials on holodeck to double check my impressions), I have thought about those costs and how they are likely to change (or not) depending on how people react to the upgrade system, I have thought about how those costs might affect player behavior, I have thought about the likely affects of those behaviors on the overall health of the game, I have considered Cryptic's motives and needs, and I suspect strongly that there is more to the system than we have seen (such as a way through either the C-store or the new Elite Ques to get items which will significantly reduce the costs to upgrade rarity levels) which will make it even better. Thus, my conclusion is that the current system, as it is, seems like a finely balanced attempt to enliven the STO player economy and make getting "the best" gear into something more than simply buying it from an NPC store. Since I feel like the attempt has a decent chance of succeeding (as long as people take the time to educate themselves on the new system) I support it. Since changing the costs would likely both hurt Cryptic's bottom line AND break the parts of the system designed to spark the player economy, I think your proposal reducing the costs is not just unnecessary, but actively counter-productive to the long (and short, really) term health of the game.
You are perfectly entitled to feel like thinking about the game as a whole is meaningless, or impossible, or what have you. I obviously disagree, but if all you care about is how you perceive the costs to you, personally, that is your right. I would suggest, however, that given that you still don't have access to the system, nor have a clear grasp of how/why it interfaces with the rest of the economy of the game (which, to be fair, I don't really have a certain grasp either - I just think my informed guess is likely to be much closer to the intention than your uninformed one), maybe you should wait until you do, in fact, have some real information with which to base your feedback on.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit?usp=sharing
Before, for every .06 TP it took 1s to upgrade. Now, for every .11 TP it takes 1s to upgrade, a very nice improvement.
For example, a rep set item, let's say the Maco Deflector, would take 53h 7m to go from MK XII to MK XIV, now, it will take 9h 44m 17s