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Official New Upgrade System Feedback Thread

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  • hipachilleshipachilles Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well done. :)



    And now for something whimsical!!

    https://i.imgur.com/U1DlSwd.jpg

    This is a question for everyone, but mightybobcnc has a ton of data, so I thought a good place to start would be here. Anyways, I am wondering if one can upgrade a VR conductive rcs accelerator to an UR version using this upgrade system. If so, what does it look like? I know it would need to go through XIII and XIV before gaining rarity, but I am just curious if it would gain one or more of those nice additional stat boosts the current craftable UR versions get.

    Obviously the question stands for the science particle field version, as well. I am just wondering if this might wreak havoc with the current exchange prices for these consoles, given their cost and how many bugs there are with upgradable items on Tribble.
  • geekguy79geekguy79 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I still can't upgrade the borg console assimilated module, can't upgrade romulan rep item experimental plasma beam array, can't upgrade rep item assimilated borg engines.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Excluding the use of the 'Superior Experimental**' upgrade kits that add 2x chance for a Rarity increase, and any accelerators or other potential C-store items that might do the same, the Common items have a 40% base chance to have a Rarity increase when you fill up the TP bar to upgrade their Mark level. Uncommons have 20%, Rares are 10% (seeing a pattern here?), Very Rare is 5%, and Ultra Rare is 2.5%. Every time a Mark increase happens, this % chance gets reset.

    Once you reach the Mk limit of XIV, this is also the same amount that will be added for every failed Rarity increase attempt. So if you want to upgrade your Very Rare Mk XIV Doodad into an Ultra Rare Mk XIV Doodad, you have a 5% chance that you'll get that Rarity increase on your first try once you fill up the TP bar. If it fails, then you fill up the TP bar a second time, and it'll add another 5% so now you have a 10% chance for a Rarity increase on your second try. And so on and so forth until you actually get your Rarity increase.

    I hope what I just said made sense, I'm not always the best at explaining things.

    **really curious about the drop rates for that Salvage item that is required to craft these. If it's not as ridiculously rare as the old Prototype Salvage from before the Rep system then this might be a decent supplement to upgrading costs.


    Here's an actual example from tonight:
    Rare [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XII] has a 10% chance to crit a rarity increase. The Mark level went up but the rarity crit failed.
    Rare [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XIII] has a 10% chance to crit a rarity increase. The Mark level went up but the rarity crit failed.
    Rare [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XIV] has a 10% chance to crit a rarity increase. The Mark level is already capped at XIV and the rarity crit failed.
    Upon repeat it added another 10% for a total of 20% chance to crit a rarity increase. This crit attempt also failed.
    Repeating again added another 10% for a total of 30% chance to crit a rarity increase. This crit attempt succeeded and now the secondary deflector is Very Rare.

    Very Rare [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XIV [Ins]] has a 5% chance to crit a rarity increase. This crit failed.
    Repeat added another 5% for a total of 10% chance to crit a rarity increase. This crit failed.
    Repeat added 5% for a total of 15%. This crit succeeded and now the secondary deflector is Ultra Rare.

    Ultra Rare [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XIV [Aux] [Ins]] has a base crit chance of 2.5%. No surprise here, that crit failed.
    Repeat added another 2.5% for 5% total. Amazingly this crit succeeded and I ended up with an Epic [Solanae Secondary Deflector Mk XIV [Aux] [Ins]]

    Thank you for the information. Based on this, I calculate that it would take on average 5.293585 trials to upgrade a Mk XIV item from Very Rare to Ultra Rare and 7.609113 trials to upgrade a Mk XIV item from Ultra Rare to Epic. For a Mk XIV space weapon, the expected costs are as follows:

    Very Rare to Ultra Rare
    5.293585 trials
    79.4038 superior tech upgrades
    85,359 dilithium
    1,191,057 EC

    Ultra Rare to Epic
    7.609113 trials
    128.4038 superior tech upgrades
    138,034 dilithium
    1,926,057 EC


    Formulas

    p = initial probability of success = increase in probability of success per failure
    M = maximum number of trials until success
    X = number of trials until success (this is a random variable)

    M = ceiling(1/p - 1) + 1
    E[X] = sum_{i=1}^M i * min(i*p, 1) * prod_{j=1}^{i-1} (1 - j*p)

    If 1/p is an integer, then the above formulas can be simplified to

    M = 1/p
    E[X] = sum_{i=1}^M i^2 * p * prod_{j=1}^{i-1} (1 - j*p)
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited September 2014
    still not upgradeable are....

    All Nausicaan tegolar swords

    Disruptor pistol and Fed type 3 rifle from "Night of the Comet"

    Assimilated subtranswarp engines

    Assimilated console

    Proton particle stabilizer console

    Romulan Disruptor split beam rifle from "Frozen"

    Klingon Intelligence stealth utility armor, and Hirogen Tetryon Blast rifle from "Alpha"

    Chromodynamic armor "preorder item" so may be intended

    probably some others i missed, but nice work getting so much stuff added to upgrade lists.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • necriemoonnecriemoon Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This is a question for everyone, but mightybobcnc has a ton of data, so I thought a good place to start would be here. Anyways, I am wondering if one can upgrade a VR conductive rcs accelerator to an UR version using this upgrade system. If so, what does it look like? I know it would need to go through XIII and XIV before gaining rarity, but I am just curious if it would gain one or more of those nice additional stat boosts the current craftable UR versions get.

    Obviously the question stands for the science particle field version, as well. I am just wondering if this might wreak havoc with the current exchange prices for these consoles, given their cost and how many bugs there are with upgradable items on Tribble.

    Yes, you can upgrade the Conductive RCS Accelerator.

    I started with this:
    http://i.imgur.com/lO4IkGV.jpg

    Here's the interface once I got it to Mk 14. You can also see how many Tech points are required for an attempt at Epic:
    http://i.imgur.com/4dDYj2A.jpg

    Here's some others I leveled up to Mk 14 Epic for kicks and giggles:
    http://i.imgur.com/OEf0Z7t.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/1Wrler5.jpg

    Mods I've recieved during upgrading:
    [PolAP]
    [ResAll]
    [ResA]
    [ResB]
    [AuxPwr]
    [ShHP]
    [Flow]

    So I've mostly seen Engineering console bonuses, but I did get +Shield HPs, so the avalible mod pool for the Fleet upgrade may use the same pool as when you get a fleet version by critting while crafting.
    You don't get a second Mod when going from Fleet quality to Epic. This seems to be this way with all console upgrades, so it may be intended.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    Formulas

    p = initial probability of success = increase in probability of success per failure
    M = maximum number of trials until success
    X = number of trials until success (this is a random variable)

    M = ceiling(1/p - 1) + 1
    E[X] = sum_{i=1}^M i^2 * p * prod_{j=1}^{i-1} (1 - j*p)

    Oh god my head. That is way beyond me. Care to spell it out for the dum dums? (Got a link to some math website that explains that formula and perhaps has a handy Excel version?) :P Although ~5 for VR to UR and ~6-7 for UR to Epic does sound about right in my experience. Does this formula only apply to rarity bumps once you're already at the XIV cap or does it also work to guess the odds of a lucky Rarity bump during the Mark increase process before you get to XIV when the base % gets reset every time the Mark goes up?

    Do you need more data to refine it or do you have all you need already?

    frtoaster wrote: »
    Thank you for the information. Based on this, I calculate that it would take on average 5.293585 trials to upgrade a Mk XIV item from Very Rare to Ultra Rare and 7.609113 trials to upgrade a Mk XIV item from Ultra Rare to Epic.

    Does that include the success? i.e. does '5 trials to go from Very Rare to Ultra Rare' mean 4 failures and 1 success or is it 5 failures and then 1 success?

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    Upgrading our gear will be coming to Holodeck early! There is now a promotional event that will be taking place where you can get free superior tech upgrades. These upgrades will be bound to character. More info can be found here: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7007533

    On that note, this is a very nice gesture on Cryptic/PWE's part, but the amount Tech "Upgrades" (term used by PWE which I believe they meant to say kits) is not enough to get our gear to the next Mk. Which, until the drop of DR, will not be higher than mk XIII UR. I was actually looking forward to the wait for DR because then I had more time to stockpile. But now, they get to milk us early I guess. Grinding/Farming.... here I come.... again.

    There is no way I'm running the system as it is now. I'll claim the free stuff of course, but at the end of the day the basic issues with this system are not being addressed, and on top off that they're releasing a system with a ton of bugs in it and the obscene costs still not so much as responded to let alone dealt with.

    I dare say a lot of people will waste these freebies on upgrades that are still broken, so if nothing else I guess it'll widen the knowledge of how unrealistic this is, 'cause I bet a lot of people think they'll get MK XIII gear just from these pieces.......

    Also, I suppose if anyone is able to make superior tech upgrades we'll get to see if my theory about the exchange will hold true.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    On trible i upgraded the ground maco weapon from mk xii to mk xiv it cost me 40 rare tech upgrades, to use 1 cost me 950 dilitium.
    So even if you wait and don't push 'finish now' it cost you about 40 * 950 dil = 38.000 dilitium for 1 ground maco weapon.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    bones1970 wrote: »
    On trible i upgraded the ground maco weapon from mk xii to mk xiv it cost me 40 rare tech upgrades, to use 1 cost me 950 dilitium.
    So even if you wait and don't push 'finish now' it cost you about 40 * 950 dil = 38.000 dilitium for 1 ground maco weapon.

    Personally, I think this might be the solution:

    If you're just putting in the points to push up the tech points it shouldn't cost any dilithium. If the upgrade is going to push the mark of the item up then maybe 5k dilithium is okay at this point. If you then want to do a quality upgrade it should be guaranteed and maybe cost 10k dilithium or something but do that separately.

    Could be a way to sort it.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • albinovampire987albinovampire987 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I don't know if this has been posted, but what materials are needed to craft superior tech upgrades?
    Galactic Horde.
  • hipachilleshipachilles Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    necriemoon wrote: »
    Yes, you can upgrade the Conductive RCS Accelerator.

    I started with this:
    http://i.imgur.com/lO4IkGV.jpg

    Here's the interface once I got it to Mk 14. You can also see how many Tech points are required for an attempt at Epic:
    http://i.imgur.com/4dDYj2A.jpg

    Here's some others I leveled up to Mk 14 Epic for kicks and giggles:
    http://i.imgur.com/OEf0Z7t.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/1Wrler5.jpg

    Mods I've recieved during upgrading:
    [PolAP]
    [ResAll]
    [ResA]
    [ResB]
    [AuxPwr]
    [ShHP]
    [Flow]

    So I've mostly seen Engineering console bonuses, but I did get +Shield HPs, so the avalible mod pool for the Fleet upgrade may use the same pool as when you get a fleet version by critting while crafting.
    You don't get a second Mod when going from Fleet quality to Epic. This seems to be this way with all console upgrades, so it may be intended.

    Thanks for the info - very helpful. By the sounds of it, it might be easier to buy a VR version from the exchange (around 4MM apiece) and upgrade it to UR to get the extra mod. Current UR versions are at least 15MM at most have useless mods, if any at all - it is at least 30MM to get a useful one.
  • albinovampire987albinovampire987 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nevermind, i found a google doc by freenas85 that has the mats listed:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0
    Galactic Horde.
  • gagocashgagocash Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gr4v1t4r wrote: »
    Looking at the costs involved I'm just blown away.

    Question, will there be mk14 ultra-rare gear available for purchase from fleet holdings, or are new players expected to first grind out mk 12 gear and then upgrade that afterwards.

    I.e. is the upgrade system to be seen as a convenience feature for existing players, or will all players have to deal with it. If it is the latter, I wonder what must go through a new players head when faced with the prospect of having to grind out several reputation systems, contribute enough to fleet to gain access to enough fleet credits to buy fleet shields, tactical consoles and likely weapons, and then on top of that having to upgrade all that gear once more.

    It's a daunting prospect for me as an old-time regular player, and I can't imagine how the casuals this game has been aimed at lately will react to it.
    Don't forget the Level 60 Cap increase. Level 50->60 is the same as the old Level 1->50.:D LOL
    I think if any new players see all the required immense costs in time and money for this cr*ptic game, they will immediatelly turn from new to ex players, lmao. i don't know, but sometimes i really think the devs want to destroy this game completly. maybe this is the end of the cashcow and they try to make a quick buck before they have to shutdown sto finally?

    P.S. I'm not going to waste my dilithium for this upgrade system, the same also applies with the revamped crafting system. this is what they try to achieve, it's called distraction, steal the time and dilithium from the players, so they don't have it for the real important stuff in the game. i don't want to destroy my gear and weapons with random forced mods and end with all different gear and weapons. be smart people and don't fall into this trap.

    upgraded weapons with randomly forced mods? don't you see the huge time and dilithium sink? if you want only to have a full set of 8 "upgraded" beams all with the same mods, you would need countless trys, a ton of dilithium, ec and the whole day. why you people let them do this to you? you have the force, close your wallets and they will listen to you like a brave child. and if they continue with the destruction of the game, hey sto isn't the only game on this planet. other companys have also good looking games. and why is this game so expensive? my internet with phone costs me only 25 bucks for a whole month, in sto you would need atleast 25 bucks per day to be a pro!
    M.A.C.O. ELITE COMMANDER & KIRK'S PROTEGE
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    There is no way I'm running the system as it is now. I'll claim the free stuff of course, but at the end of the day the basic issues with this system are not being addressed, and on top off that they're releasing a system with a ton of bugs in it and the obscene costs still not so much as responded to let alone dealt with.

    I dare say a lot of people will waste these freebies on upgrades that are still broken, so if nothing else I guess it'll widen the knowledge of how unrealistic this is, 'cause I bet a lot of people think they'll get MK XIII gear just from these pieces.......

    Also, I suppose if anyone is able to make superior tech upgrades we'll get to see if my theory about the exchange will hold true.

    Yeah. I'm just gonna grab the freebies and wait it out.
    signature.png
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Personally, I think this might be the solution:

    If you're just putting in the points to push up the tech points it shouldn't cost any dilithium. If the upgrade is going to push the mark of the item up then maybe 5k dilithium is okay at this point. If you then want to do a quality upgrade it should be guaranteed and maybe cost 10k dilithium or something but do that separately.

    Could be a way to sort it.

    I have no issue with this suggestion.
    signature.png
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gagocash wrote: »
    Don't forget the Level 60 Cap increase. Level 50->60 is the same as the old Level 1->50.:D LOL
    I think if any new players see all the required immense costs in time and money for this cr*ptic game, they will immediatelly turn from new to ex players, lmao. i don't know, but sometimes i really think the devs want to destroy this game completly. maybe this is the end of the cashcow and they try to make a quick buck before they have to shutdown sto finally?

    P.S. I'm not going to waste my dilithium for this upgrade system, the same also applies with the revamped crafting system. this is what they try to achieve, it's called distraction, steal the time and dilithium from the players, so they don't have it for the real important stuff in the game. i don't want to destroy my gear and weapons with random forced mods and end with all different gear and weapons. be smart people and don't fall into this trap.

    upgraded weapons with randomly forced mods? don't you see the huge time and dilithium sink? if you want only to have a full set of 8 "upgraded" beams all with the same mods, you would need countless trys, a ton of dilithium, ec and the whole day. why you people let them do this to you? you have the force, close your wallets and they will listen to you like a brave child. and if they continue with the destruction of the game, hey sto isn't the only game on this planet. other companys have also good looking games. and why is this game so expensive? my internet with phone costs me only 25 bucks for a whole month, in sto you would need atleast 25 bucks per day to be a pro!

    QFT^
    You are absolutely right!
    signature.png
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Oh god my head. That is way beyond me. Care to spell it out for the dum dums? (Got a link to some math website that explains that formula and perhaps has a handy Excel version?) :P Although ~5 for VR to UR and ~6-7 for UR to Epic does sound about right in my experience.

    I made a mistake in the formula for the expected number of trials. The mistake allows for a probability in the summation to be greater than 1 when 1/p is not an integer; the old formula should still work when 1/p is an integer. The corrected formulas are as follows:
    frtoaster wrote: »
    Formulas

    p = initial probability of success = increase in probability of success per failure
    M = maximum number of trials until success
    X = number of trials until success (this is a random variable)

    M = ceiling(1/p - 1) + 1
    E[X] = sum_{i=1}^M i * min(i*p, 1) * prod_{j=1}^{i-1} (1 - j*p)

    If 1/p is an integer, then the above formulas can be simplified to

    M = 1/p
    E[X] = sum_{i=1}^M i^2 * p * prod_{j=1}^{i-1} (1 - j*p)

    The formula for the expected number of trials comes pretty much straight from the definition of expectation. The ceiling and min functions are to deal with the cases where p does not divide evenly into 1. If you write out the formula for the case p = 0.2 (Uncommon item), I think it will become clearer:

    E[X] = 0.2 + 2*0.4*(1 - 0.2) + 3*0.6*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) + 4*0.8*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) *(1 - 0.6) + 5*1*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) *(1 - 0.6)*(1 - 0.8)

    I'm not sure if Excel supports sums and products of symbolic formulas. Of course, you could always compute the cells explicitly and then take the sum or product.
    Does this formula only apply to rarity bumps once you're already at the XIV cap or does it also work to guess the odds of a lucky Rarity bump during the Mark increase process before you get to XIV when the base % gets reset every time the Mark goes up?

    The formula is for the case where you already have a Mk XIV item. Please note that the formula is only for one increase in rarity, for example, from Very Rare to Ultra Rare or from Ultra Rare to Epic. If you want to know the expected number of trials to go from Common to Epic, then you have to apply the formula multiple times and sum the results.
    Do you need more data to refine it or do you have all you need already?

    If I have understood you correctly, then I don't need any more data. If I have misunderstood something you said though, please tell me.
    Does that include the success? i.e. does '5 trials to go from Very Rare to Ultra Rare' mean 4 failures and 1 success or is it 5 failures and then 1 success?

    It means 4 failures and 1 success.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • specter153specter153 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    cool system, decrease the dilithium cost a little and it would be perfect
  • erikossserikosss Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This is a dumb post.
    I just can't help it.

    Why is Cryptic soooo greedy? :(

    I'm just a star trek fan since the original series.
    Cool to fly space ships.

    I like to get the best gear so I can do the best with fleet mates.

    But now too expensive in dillithium to craft and upgrade.
    AND have random mods, not mods I choose.

    Then the "T5/T5U" ships are obsolete compared to T6.
    Will have to get the new T6 lobi or lockbox ships.

    Again why is Cryptic soooo greedy? :(
    My whinge for today.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Captains,

    May I remind you that this is a feedback thread for people who have actually tested the feature and/or crunched real numbers from someone who has actually tested the feature?

    Please stop posting "theorycrafting" responses. They are not going to be as helpful to the Devs, they're resulting in arguments, and they're getting in the way of feedback from testers.

    Thank you.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • drowrulesupremedrowrulesupreme Member Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I get the "Item is fully upgraded message" for Reman Prototype Covariant Shield Array Mk XI. It was the mission reward and not from the reputation project if this makes a difference.

    I have the full set as Mk XI and would love to upgrade in quality and Mk.
    "...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
    Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016

  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    Captains,

    May I remind you that this is a feedback thread for people who have actually tested the feature and/or crunched real numbers from someone who has actually tested the feature?

    Please stop posting "theorycrafting" responses. They are not going to be as helpful to the Devs, they're resulting in arguments, and they're getting in the way of feedback from testers.

    Thank you.

    ^Dumb Statement. Everybody is a tester now. And I don't know what "theorycrafting" you are referring to. but I don't even think that matters. And now that I have been able to use the system, I still feel the same way. Although, I will admit, now that I've seen it and used it (facts still standing that the overall price and price discrepancies are just too high), It does seem like a nice system, but only from the looks and functionality.

    Also, being able to test things out is cool but it really isn't the players job, hell, players don't have a job when it comes to this game, to crunch the numbers. For once, I would to like to have seen Cryptic/PWE be forthcoming about numbers in general. I mean, we still haven't gotten the prices for individual T6 ships yet. And, of course, they were not forthcoming about the resource sink this new system has. I wonder why? but the dumb thing is, even after players have crunched the numbers and said "Hey, this is a bit too high", as per the usual, they get ignored. So, answer me this... what's the point?

    *rant over*
    signature.png
  • sohtohsohtoh Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ^Dumb Statement. Everybody is a tester now. And I don't know what "theorycrafting" you are referring to. but I don't even think that matters. And now that I have been able to use the system, I still feel the same way. Although, I will admit, now that I've seen it and used it (facts still standing that the overall price and price discrepancies are just too high), It does seem like a nice system, but only from the looks and functionality.

    Also, being able to test things out is cool but it really isn't the players job, hell, players don't have a job when it comes to this game, to crunch the numbers. For once, I would to like to have seen Cryptic/PWE be forthcoming about numbers in general. I mean, we still haven't gotten the prices for individual T6 ships yet. And, of course, they were not forthcoming about the resource sink this new system has. I wonder why? but the dumb thing is, even after players have crunched the numbers and said "Hey, this is a bit too high", as per the usual, they get ignored. So, answer me this... what's the point?

    *rant over*

    Then post over on the Holodeck side. You are posting in the Tribble forums, which is for the Test Server. You have previously stated that as a Silver member you do not have access to Tribble. You have been spamming across the Tribble forums your dis-satisfaction about things you have been unable to test, providing your own ideas on how it should be. That could be the theorycrafting he is referring to.

    And by the way, in case you haven't noticed, he is a Moderator. There are some people you shouldn't mess with, Moderators are some.
    "I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ^Dumb Statement. Everybody is a tester now. And I don't know what "theorycrafting" you are referring to. but I don't even think that matters. And now that I have been able to use the system, I still feel the same way. Although, I will admit, now that I've seen it and used it (facts still standing that the overall price and price discrepancies are just too high), It does seem like a nice system, but only from the looks and functionality.

    Also, being able to test things out is cool but it really isn't the players job, hell, players don't have a job when it comes to this game, to crunch the numbers. For once, I would to like to have seen Cryptic/PWE be forthcoming about numbers in general. I mean, we still haven't gotten the prices for individual T6 ships yet. And, of course, they were not forthcoming about the resource sink this new system has. I wonder why? but the dumb thing is, even after players have crunched the numbers and said "Hey, this is a bit too high", as per the usual, they get ignored. So, answer me this... what's the point?

    *rant over*

    If you're talking about everybody being a tester as in the features on Holodeck, the general discussion, bug reports, and other live server forums would be a more relevant place to post.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    If you're talking about everybody being a tester as in the features on Holodeck, the general discussion, bug reports, and other live server forums would be a more relevant place to post.

    It would seem frankly inefficient however to split the feedback when the devs have said on numerous occasions before that they don't spend a lot of time on the forums.

    Also note that Bluegeek didn't damn anyone from posting that does know what they're talking about, from this 'and/or crunched real numbers from someone who has actually tested the feature?'

    As it happens some of us do have the numbers, and even if you didn't mightybob has been kind enough to write up an entire spreadsheet so that we can all participate in the maths and contribute. Also, anything related to this system that could be impacted on due to this system should be considered. That's how testing works.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I get the "Item is fully upgraded message" for Reman Prototype Covariant Shield Array Mk XI. It was the mission reward and not from the reputation project if this makes a difference.

    I have the full set as Mk XI and would love to upgrade in quality and Mk.

    Very interesting. I had no issues upgrading that mission reward shield. I admit, I did not test it on the latest tribble patch, but on the patch prior to that it upgraded just fine. I'll have to take a look at it again. I find this to be a little concerning because thus far on tribble I have seen spotty reports from other players saying that they're having issues upgrading specific items that I myself have no problems with. I hope there isn't some kind of database rot on really old item drops that makes it inconsistent for different players with the "same" item.
    frtoaster wrote: »
    The formula for the expected number of trials comes pretty much straight from the definition of expectation. The ceiling and min functions are to deal with the cases where p does not divide evenly into 1. If you write out the formula for the case p = 0.2 (Uncommon item), I think it will become clearer:

    E[X] = 0.2 + 2*0.4*(1 - 0.2) + 3*0.6*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) + 4*0.8*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) *(1 - 0.6) + 5*1*(1 - 0.2)*(1 - 0.4) *(1 - 0.6)*(1 - 0.8)

    I'm not sure if Excel supports sums and products of symbolic formulas. Of course, you could always compute the cells explicitly and then take the sum or product.

    I think I can work with that. I can just have values for I, J, and P in their own cells and then just reference them in the formula with $A1 $B1 etc.

    frtoaster wrote: »
    The formula is for the case where you already have a Mk XIV item. Please note that the formula is only for one increase in rarity, for example, from Very Rare to Ultra Rare or from Ultra Rare to Epic. If you want to know the expected number of trials to go from Common to Epic, then you have to apply the formula multiple times and sum the results.

    That's what I figured.
    frtoaster wrote: »
    If I have understood you correctly, then I don't need any more data. If I have misunderstood something you said though, please tell me.

    In that case it sounds like we're on the same wavelength.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • jheinigjheinig Member Posts: 364 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2014
    We've noticed a bug in which trying to upgrade an item that is still equipped on a ship -- especially if it is not your currently active ship -- might not allow the item to upgrade. In the meantime, if you're having trouble with a specific item, try moving it to your main inventory and then upgrading.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ^ Yeah I've seen that one with not being able to upgrade equipped items. I'm hoping that some of the spotty 'can't upgrade this' reports are just a symptom of that.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    jheinig wrote: »
    We've noticed a bug in which trying to upgrade an item that is still equipped on a ship -- especially if it is not your currently active ship -- might not allow the item to upgrade. In the meantime, if you're having trouble with a specific item, try moving it to your main inventory and then upgrading.

    I know I'm kinda grabbing an opportunity here, but I don't suppose we could get some feedback on some other points in this thread at all? I'm sure many of us would appreciate it.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yeah its way too many resources per item imo. I am sure though this system was setup to make ppl grind like starbases for years before completing them. Just too much grind for me with all these characters would take me a decade to upgrade them all.
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