Okay. So my observations from playing around more.
Federation Type 1 and Type 2 (both the white quality C-Store item and the blue quality mission reward) have no option to upgrade. Last I heard this was true for the Type 3 rifle as well.
I think where this system gets a bit ridiculous is outfitting an away team.
A full away team (plus self) involves 23 items that need to be upgraded, not counting kits which get their own upgrades.
This is compared to a space set which has (for a Tier 5U cruiser the costliest possible space setup for upgrading), 23. (11 consoles, +engines/shield/deflector/warpcore, +8 weapons slots).
The problem is, it is much, much easier to simply let ground slide for your NPC away team's gear and ground remains less popular.
I think either ground costs need to be reduced or we need some means of duping our Captain's gear for our away team at a flat cost per item.
All in all I thought that the upgrade system would be better than it is.
First : Currently, taking into account the cost Dil wise, It would be smarter to just add the rep gear upgrades directly into the rep system the gear came from. Or better yet offer a Mk XIV version of the gear in the rep system. It is entirely to costly to get the gear then have to spend the same amount of dil it took to get the gear in the first place just to raise it 2 lvls from XII to XIV, and hope for a rarity increase.
Second : Trying to rank the gear up in rarity is entirely broken. The cost to chance ratio is way way off there. Taking into account the new rep system that's coming, it basically comes down to Upgrades vs. Gear....with an almost non existent chance for a rarity increase.
Third : Upgrades vs Gear. Going back to the new rep system, have you taken into account the fact that people know how much Dil they need for the rep gear, going on a 1 Con, 1 torp, 1 beam/cannon type weapon (Both a beam and cannon type on the new rep), plus Shields, engines, deflector and core. Cost wise that is more than doo able however with the way the upgrade system stands now you take the dil cost for those mentioned then add on the rest of your ships build...gets to the point where a person is left asking what's the point.
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
Pure subjective feedback. Its a nice system all in all. I tried to upgrade one of the new beam array's to epic. It had gone pretty smooth till there, then about a million dilithium later it's still not, and only 15% of a chance, and I gave up.
^This ... This is the problem! 18,000 to 25,000 Dil for an Epic item is NOT overly expensive! If it works first time every time!
As I said in my earlier pots, it took until 47% Chance before the RNG gave me an Epic, and it took probably about 15 "cycles" to get to that! ... That is what is WRONG ...
It should give you Way more Rarity Upgrade Chance per "click" And particularly when using "Superior TEch Kits, it should be filling to at LEAST 75% on one fill of the TP bar, if it still fails, it should go up to 100% for the second fill.
But I will guarantee, that they will have C-Store items that will alleviate this problem .. Just like they did with Neverwinter ...
We'll have Nanoprobe Tech Kits, that give 50,000 TP or we'll have Ferengi Upgrade Kits that give 100,000 TP ... Then we'll have the STO version of Coalescent wards for 1000Zen that will guarantee a 100% for a Rarity Upgrade ...
They almost will completely monetize the acquisition of Epic gear, so that realistically on those that spend money the C-Store could get them ... But with a 1 in 500 Billion chance of getting one of these C-Store items as a loot drop or LB drop, so they "technically" can't be accused of P2W or P2P ...
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
The Basic upgrades from the vendor are a trap. They are almost 4.3x more expensive than using Superior upgrade tech. Even crafting the Basics yourself will save 25%.
Example:
Very Rare space weapon Mk XII to XIII - Cost: 64000TP
# of Basic Upgrades needed: 32
# of Improved Upgrades needed: 13
# of Superior Upgrades needed: 5
Dil cost if using Basic upgrades: 22,400
Dil cost if using Improved upgrades: 12,350
Dil cost if using Superior upgrades: 5,375
EC cost if buying Basic upgrades from the vendor: 320,000 (10,000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Basic upgrades: 240,000 (7500 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Improved upgrades: 195,000 (15000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Superior upgrades: 75,000 (15000 per upgrade)
That being said, it's definitely a moderate EC sink to get to XIV, and a much larger one to get to Gold.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Although true, you can't actually make the build until the drop of X2. So you would find out the actual answer to your question then and build accordingly. That's what I'd plan to do since getting answers is like pulling teeth at this point, and that's ignoring the fact that they won't change much of anything anyways.
If you wait until DR drops, you're already going to be behind.
The Basic upgrades from the vendor are a trap. They are almost 4.3x more expensive than using Superior upgrade tech. Even crafting the Basics yourself will save 25%.
Example:
Very Rare space weapon Mk XII to XIII - Cost: 64000TP
# of Basic Upgrades needed: 32
# of Improved Upgrades needed: 13
# of Superior Upgrades needed: 5
Dil cost if using Basic upgrades: 22,400
Dil cost if using Improved upgrades: 12,350
Dil cost if using Superior upgrades: 5,375
EC cost if buying Basic upgrades from the vendor: 320,000 (10,000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Basic upgrades: 240,000 (7500 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Improved upgrades: 195,000 (15000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Superior upgrades: 75,000 (15000 per upgrade)
That being said, it's definitely a moderate EC sink to get to XIV, and a much larger one to get to Gold.
EC is chump change compared to the Dil sink. I can get EC a hell of a lot easier than dil. At least with EC there's no refining cap like there is with dil.
Regardless of what I do I will be behind. That is the nature of this expansion. the only way to keep up is to grind and pay.
If that's what you believe, you'll likely see it come true.
For me, I want clarifications on certain things - want the knowledge - to be able to make the better informed decisions on what to do and what not to do. Knowing how certain things will be at launch, I can better spend my time up to the launch preparing for it...simple as that.
You guys shock me.... you worry more about random mods and what it takes to get to gold more than you care about the major fact that you will be left dry by the time you get there. Im just shocked.
If that's what you believe, you'll likely see it come true.
For me, I want clarifications on certain things - want the knowledge - to be able to make the better informed decisions on what to do and what not to do. Knowing how certain things will be at launch, I can better spend my time up to the launch preparing for it...simple as that.
It wont matter with these guys. You can be informed all you want. The only guarantee is that they will give you the shaft one way or another. That is a fact. History has shown this.
You guys shock me.... you worry more about random mods and what it takes to get to gold more than you care about the major fact that you will be left dry by the time you get there. Im just shocked.
Umm... the "what it takes to get to gold" is why "you will be left dry by the time you get there."
We're all concerned about the costs and mechanics because if the costs are prohibitive or the mechanics are overly cumbersome it allows us to decide whether we actually want to get there. Personally, I'm stockpiling so I have resources to use the system... since as expected upgrading now may be a waste of resources given the shift in endgame positioning. The simple fact is: if the system looks to be too much of a pain in the aft I'll just pass my stockpile to my Fleet and do something more fun. It's not worth stressing over for me since the devs have had concerns over cost mentioned here time and again, and we've already been given info about adjustments to the time-gating. Admittedly, I'd favor just putting back in that 5 sec Progress Bar we used to have for crafting, but that clearly is not the direction this game is taking. :P
So yeah, we're concerned about random mods and what it takes to get there because that is what the upgrade system is designed to provide... and the costs (from direct resource costs, time-gating, and built-in "failure" chance) are why we will or will not use it. Once we have that information we can each determine how best to prepare for Delta Rising and whether it is worth doing so.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Umm... the "what it takes to get to gold" is why "you will be left dry by the time you get there."
We're all concerned about the costs and mechanics because if the costs are prohibitive or the mechanics are overly cumbersome it allows us to decide whether we actually want to get there. Personally, I'm stockpiling so I have resources to use the system... since as expected upgrading now may be a waste of resources given the shift in endgame positioning. The simple fact is: if the system looks to be too much of a pain in the aft I'll just pass my stockpile to my Fleet and do something more fun. It's not worth stressing over for me since the devs have had concerns over cost mentioned here time and again, and we've already been given info about adjustments to the time-gating. Admittedly, I'd favor just putting back in that 5 sec Progress Bar we used to have for crafting, but that clearly is not the direction this game is taking. :P
So yeah, we're concerned about random mods and what it takes to get there because that is what the upgrade system is designed to provide... and the costs (from direct resource costs, time-gating, and built-in "failure" chance) are why we will or will not use it. Once we have that information we can each determine how best to prepare for Delta Rising and whether it is worth doing so.
I completely understand. But you missed my point. Logically you would upgrade all your current gear to Mk XIV first, before attempting to get gold. My point was, by the time you get there you wont have the resources.
Let me ask you something, all of that stockpiling, did you grind for it? I'd assume so... That... Or you paid for it. Either way, shouldn't the system be less cumbersome in price as a result?
Also, don't you find it unfair, if not, unfortunate that you wouldn't upgrade your gear for that very same reason? You say you would do something else but aside from the new mission/PvEs, which are negligible for Mk XII gear, what would you do? I personal feel I've done everything I've wanted to and am hoping for X2 to be a nice refresher. Not a cumbersome grind accompanied by a handful of new missions and PvEs.
On another note, if I get lucky and get a Mk XIII gold item, when I upgrade to Mk XIV, that, too, should be gold, right?
http://bit.ly/STOUpgradeTable
Now with preliminary ground items including standard/fleet ground items. Rep items are still WIP. And can someone tell me why 32x2 = 65? :V
On another note, if I get lucky and get a Mk XIII gold item, when I upgrade to Mk XIV, that, too, should be gold, right?
Yes, if you get a lucky crit while upgrading from XII Ultraviolet and end up with an XIII Gold, then you'll have an XIV gold after your next (and final) upgrade. During my testing I had a crazy crit from Purple mk IX to Ultraviolet X and then an immediate crit from Ultraviolet X to Gold XI, so all of my upgrades from XI to XIV were gold quality. I doubt I will ever see an insane chance roll like that again until the day the STO server closes.
The upgrade system never lowers quality or mark level (unless it's a bug like with the TR-116B.. and maybe the retrofit phasers).
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Ok, so not going to read 41 page, My thoughts on the system as it stands now on tribble. I like the idea and the conceptual design, but I despise the dilithium cost attached every time you add a mod. Cryptic needs to rethink this one factor. maybe a smaller cost like 5k dil when you actually get the item leveled up and go to upgrade it is fine, but not per input. That needs to change
Ok, so not going to read 41 page, My thoughts on the system as it stands now on tribble. I like the idea and the conceptual design, but I despise the dilithium cost attached every time you add a mod. Cryptic needs to rethink this one factor. maybe a smaller cost like 5k dil when you actually get the item leveled up and go to upgrade it is fine, but not per input. That needs to change
I agree. You got my vote. Also, I'd love to have access to tribble. I bet a ton others would too.
So basically it boils down to the guys with money, dropping zen for dil win, the poorer guys are f*cked
Isn't that how it always is? "But...but...but... you guys wit no monies can grind? So you dont have no anything to complain about"..... But what if we don't want to grind and our tired of it? "Well, as the Swedish priest put it, Fek off!".
I completely understand. But you missed my point. Logically you would upgrade all your current gear to Mk XIV first, before attempting to get gold. My point was, by the time you get there you wont have the resources.
Let me ask you something, all of that stockpiling, did you grind for it? I'd assume so... That... Or you paid for it. Either way, shouldn't the system be less cumbersome in price as a result?
Also, don't you find it unfair, if not, unfortunate that you wouldn't upgrade your gear for that very same reason? You say you would do something else but aside from the new mission/PvEs, which are negligible for Mk XII gear, what would you do? I personal feel I've done everything I've wanted to and am hoping for X2 to be a nice refresher. Not a cumbersome grind accompanied by a handful of new missions and PvEs.
On another note, if I get lucky and get a Mk XIII gold item, when I upgrade to Mk XIV, that, too, should be gold, right?
For the stockpile, I grindededed it...
For the dilithium, I like CCE anyway, and I tend to use alts to try things out since character slots are cheaper than Respec tokens... so I had a number of well-equipped characters to do the Event with. I have the Emergency Conn Hologram on several characters now, and I have a decent chunk of dilithium stored on the Dilithium Exchange (if you really want to buy my dilithium at 100 dilithium:1 Zen, I won't complain :P) to prevent a misclick on the Finish Now button while I lazily cycle my 20 hr Research assignments. I'm not opposed to spending money on the game, but since the KDF chunk of our allied Fleets gets most of my attention I don't see the need... they don't offer enough things to the KDF or Rom factions as of now to properly motivate my spending.
For the EC's, I had been selling my TRIBBLE and slowly building up a reserve. Then, I got bored and I used a couple Master Keys I had sitting around... and got a Galor (yeah, super lucky). The Galor went on the Exchange and the EC's were added to my stockpile. I have Event ships if I really feel the need for a T5-U11, thank you, and I'll probably just get a C-Store T6-10 in anticipation of the Fleet T6-11. Plus, since I sold it the price on the Galor has dropped significantly as others have figured out the alternatives, so if I really want it back I've already made a reasonable (if not "1%" level) profit by selling it. I don't care enough about a BtC weapon to spend that kind of resources, but I'll sell it for that kind of resources quite happily.
As far as the whole cumbersome... I like having alts. The way the current system is designed is expensive enough that making (properly geared) endgame alts like we currently can is becoming cost-prohibitive, and the increasing prevalence of time-gating projects that take time-gated resources from time-gated queues does not make the game more fun. The stockpile I have built is intended to help mitigate the cumbersome nature of the upgrade system as it stands, but if it still looks like a pain in the aft in spite of my stockpiling I plan to give it to my Fleets since they've made my stay in STO more pleasant.
As to the "do something else" part, you're right... in STO what you listed is what there is to do. I like STO and the community (even those that disagree with me, since sometimes they're right ), and I'd love to see an update that's so chalk full of awesome I want to buy a LTS out of sheer gratitude... but that doesn't mean I can't go "do something else" somewhere else. My disappointment at almost everything Season 9.5 had to offer, paired with the gross imbalance in T6 ship offerings... certainly hasn't helped. Making for more time-gated grindiness and faction imbalance is more likely to push me into something else than prompt me to drop my other factions and invest full-Fed into said time-gated grindiness.
All of that is contingent on what Delta Rising has to offer, of course. It looks a tad gloom-and-DOOOMMM... but it's really not. I'll see what shows up, and if it's worth the time I'll revel in the new goodness Delta Rising has to offer... if it's not, I won't. Fun games are fun.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Exo-Plating Armor MK XI becomes a normal blue Polly Alloy without mods when you try to upgrade it.
Personal Mobility Shield MK XI Becomes a normal shield when you try to upgrade it.
Leveless Tal Shiar Adapted Borg Warp Core cannot be upgraded at all.
For the dilithium, I like CCE anyway, and I tend to use alts to try things out since character slots are cheaper than Respec tokens... so I had a number of well-equipped characters to do the Event with. I have the Emergency Conn Hologram on several characters now, and I have a decent chunk of dilithium stored on the Dilithium Exchange (if you really want to buy my dilithium at 100 dilithium:1 Zen, I won't complain :P) to prevent a misclick on the Finish Now button while I lazily cycle my 20 hr Research assignments. I'm not opposed to spending money on the game, but since the KDF chunk of our allied Fleets gets most of my attention I don't see the need... they don't offer enough things to the KDF or Rom factions as of now to properly motivate my spending.
For the EC's, I had been selling my TRIBBLE and slowly building up a reserve. Then, I got bored and I used a couple Master Keys I had sitting around... and got a Galor (yeah, super lucky). The Galor went on the Exchange and the EC's were added to my stockpile. I have Event ships if I really feel the need for a T5-U11, thank you, and I'll probably just get a C-Store T6-10 in anticipation of the Fleet T6-11. Plus, since I sold it the price on the Galor has dropped significantly as others have figured out the alternatives, so if I really want it back I've already made a reasonable (if not "1%" level) profit by selling it. I don't care enough about a BtC weapon to spend that kind of resources, but I'll sell it for that kind of resources quite happily.
As far as the whole cumbersome... I like having alts. The way the current system is designed is expensive enough that making (properly geared) endgame alts like we currently can is becoming cost-prohibitive, and the increasing prevalence of time-gating projects that take time-gated resources from time-gated queues does not make the game more fun. The stockpile I have built is intended to help mitigate the cumbersome nature of the upgrade system as it stands, but if it still looks like a pain in the aft in spite of my stockpiling I plan to give it to my Fleets since they've made my stay in STO more pleasant.
As to the "do something else" part, you're right... in STO what you listed is what there is to do. I like STO and the community (even those that disagree with me, since sometimes they're right ), and I'd love to see an update that's so chalk full of awesome I want to buy a LTS out of sheer gratitude... but that doesn't mean I can't go "do something else" somewhere else. My disappointment at almost everything Season 9.5 had to offer, paired with the gross imbalance in T6 ship offerings... certainly hasn't helped. Making for more time-gated grindiness and faction imbalance is more likely to push me into something else than drop my other factions and invest full-Fed into said time-gated grindiness.
All of that is contingent on what Delta Rising has to offer, of course. It looks a tad gloom-and-DOOOMMM... but it's really not. I'll see what shows up, and if it's worth the time I'll revel in the new goodness Delta Rising has to offer... if it's not, I won't. Fun games are fun.
I agree with you. What I got from what you said is that Delta Rising is going to be a pivotal point for this game. If done wrong in any way, the developers may be very much looking at a exodus that far exceeds the new players they are aiming to get. I only say this because I know you and I are not the only ones that feel this way. If they honestly wanted to make money, they wouldn't push old/veteran players away with their decisions to implement/force a pay or grind scenario.
As it stands, it goes like this... I want to have fun. Answer: Play the game and get to top level... Done. I still want to have fun. Answer: PvE/PvP..... I get my [REDACTED] handed to me. Solution: get better gear. How do I get better gear? Answer: Grind or pay. Since when is it fun to get your [REDACTED] handed to you? Sure, it could be a learning experience, but unless you have better gear, it really serves no point does it? But I digress. Reality is, we've all, literally, in both senses, have played your game cryptic. Both STO and your game of pay or grind. We earned what we have. Give us content. Not more "Here's a little more content, now pay or grind". If you don't mind this concept, more power to you. But it's about time we got swamped with actual content. Content does NOT equal grinding.
Exo-Plating Armor MK XI becomes a normal blue Polly Alloy without mods when you try to upgrade it.
Personal Mobility Shield MK XI Becomes a normal shield when you try to upgrade it.
Leveless Tal Shiar Adapted Borg Warp Core cannot be upgraded at all.
OOO! The borg core.... I forgot about that one. Yeah, that better be upgrade-able.
So basically it boils down to the guys with money, dropping zen for dil win, the poorer guys are f*cked
Sort of. Playing around, you get a massive gain from getting to Mk XII purple but the gains after that are fairly academic. I wouldn't necessarily chase getting legendary in every slot.
Also, playing around, you'd be looking at consuming thousands of dollars worth of dilithium if you were an impatient person trying to get all oranges.
The funny thing is that the value of dilithium will spike which favors people who play a lot but don't have a lot of money.
Sort of. Playing around, you get a massive gain from getting to Mk XII purple but the gains after that are fairly academic. I wouldn't necessarily chase getting legendary in every slot.
Also, playing around, you'd be looking at consuming thousands of dollars worth of dilithium if you were an impatient person trying to get all oranges.
The funny thing is that the value of dilithium will spike which favors people who play a lot but don't have a lot of money.
Assuming there isn't an exodus. If there is, it won't really matter. But yes. As of right now, I don't have enough dil to convert to zen in order to upgrade my gal X. But, hopefully, with the "spike" I will be able to.
I agree with you. What I got from what you said is that Delta Rising is going to be a pivotal point for this game. If done wrong in any way, the developers may be very much looking at a exodus that far exceeds the new players they are aiming to get.
In all honesty, I'm another one in total agreement with you on this point. I too see Delta Rising as a make or break point for STO and I'm praying it works out for the better.
Comments
Federation Type 1 and Type 2 (both the white quality C-Store item and the blue quality mission reward) have no option to upgrade. Last I heard this was true for the Type 3 rifle as well.
I think where this system gets a bit ridiculous is outfitting an away team.
A full away team (plus self) involves 23 items that need to be upgraded, not counting kits which get their own upgrades.
This is compared to a space set which has (for a Tier 5U cruiser the costliest possible space setup for upgrading), 23. (11 consoles, +engines/shield/deflector/warpcore, +8 weapons slots).
The problem is, it is much, much easier to simply let ground slide for your NPC away team's gear and ground remains less popular.
I think either ground costs need to be reduced or we need some means of duping our Captain's gear for our away team at a flat cost per item.
All in all I thought that the upgrade system would be better than it is.
First : Currently, taking into account the cost Dil wise, It would be smarter to just add the rep gear upgrades directly into the rep system the gear came from. Or better yet offer a Mk XIV version of the gear in the rep system. It is entirely to costly to get the gear then have to spend the same amount of dil it took to get the gear in the first place just to raise it 2 lvls from XII to XIV, and hope for a rarity increase.
Second : Trying to rank the gear up in rarity is entirely broken. The cost to chance ratio is way way off there. Taking into account the new rep system that's coming, it basically comes down to Upgrades vs. Gear....with an almost non existent chance for a rarity increase.
Third : Upgrades vs Gear. Going back to the new rep system, have you taken into account the fact that people know how much Dil they need for the rep gear, going on a 1 Con, 1 torp, 1 beam/cannon type weapon (Both a beam and cannon type on the new rep), plus Shields, engines, deflector and core. Cost wise that is more than doo able however with the way the upgrade system stands now you take the dil cost for those mentioned then add on the rest of your ships build...gets to the point where a person is left asking what's the point.
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
^This ... This is the problem! 18,000 to 25,000 Dil for an Epic item is NOT overly expensive! If it works first time every time!
As I said in my earlier pots, it took until 47% Chance before the RNG gave me an Epic, and it took probably about 15 "cycles" to get to that! ... That is what is WRONG ...
It should give you Way more Rarity Upgrade Chance per "click" And particularly when using "Superior TEch Kits, it should be filling to at LEAST 75% on one fill of the TP bar, if it still fails, it should go up to 100% for the second fill.
But I will guarantee, that they will have C-Store items that will alleviate this problem .. Just like they did with Neverwinter ...
We'll have Nanoprobe Tech Kits, that give 50,000 TP or we'll have Ferengi Upgrade Kits that give 100,000 TP ... Then we'll have the STO version of Coalescent wards for 1000Zen that will guarantee a 100% for a Rarity Upgrade ...
They almost will completely monetize the acquisition of Epic gear, so that realistically on those that spend money the C-Store could get them ... But with a 1 in 500 Billion chance of getting one of these C-Store items as a loot drop or LB drop, so they "technically" can't be accused of P2W or P2P ...
The Basic upgrades from the vendor are a trap. They are almost 4.3x more expensive than using Superior upgrade tech. Even crafting the Basics yourself will save 25%.
Example:
Very Rare space weapon Mk XII to XIII - Cost: 64000TP
# of Basic Upgrades needed: 32
# of Improved Upgrades needed: 13
# of Superior Upgrades needed: 5
Dil cost if using Basic upgrades: 22,400
Dil cost if using Improved upgrades: 12,350
Dil cost if using Superior upgrades: 5,375
EC cost if buying Basic upgrades from the vendor: 320,000 (10,000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Basic upgrades: 240,000 (7500 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Improved upgrades: 195,000 (15000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Superior upgrades: 75,000 (15000 per upgrade)
That being said, it's definitely a moderate EC sink to get to XIV, and a much larger one to get to Gold.
Joined January 2009
If you wait until DR drops, you're already going to be behind.
Regardless of what I do I will be behind. That is the nature of this expansion. the only way to keep up is to grind and pay.
If that's what you believe, you'll likely see it come true.
For me, I want clarifications on certain things - want the knowledge - to be able to make the better informed decisions on what to do and what not to do. Knowing how certain things will be at launch, I can better spend my time up to the launch preparing for it...simple as that.
It wont matter with these guys. You can be informed all you want. The only guarantee is that they will give you the shaft one way or another. That is a fact. History has shown this.
Umm... the "what it takes to get to gold" is why "you will be left dry by the time you get there."
We're all concerned about the costs and mechanics because if the costs are prohibitive or the mechanics are overly cumbersome it allows us to decide whether we actually want to get there. Personally, I'm stockpiling so I have resources to use the system... since as expected upgrading now may be a waste of resources given the shift in endgame positioning. The simple fact is: if the system looks to be too much of a pain in the aft I'll just pass my stockpile to my Fleet and do something more fun. It's not worth stressing over for me since the devs have had concerns over cost mentioned here time and again, and we've already been given info about adjustments to the time-gating. Admittedly, I'd favor just putting back in that 5 sec Progress Bar we used to have for crafting, but that clearly is not the direction this game is taking. :P
So yeah, we're concerned about random mods and what it takes to get there because that is what the upgrade system is designed to provide... and the costs (from direct resource costs, time-gating, and built-in "failure" chance) are why we will or will not use it. Once we have that information we can each determine how best to prepare for Delta Rising and whether it is worth doing so.
I completely understand. But you missed my point. Logically you would upgrade all your current gear to Mk XIV first, before attempting to get gold. My point was, by the time you get there you wont have the resources.
Let me ask you something, all of that stockpiling, did you grind for it? I'd assume so... That... Or you paid for it. Either way, shouldn't the system be less cumbersome in price as a result?
Also, don't you find it unfair, if not, unfortunate that you wouldn't upgrade your gear for that very same reason? You say you would do something else but aside from the new mission/PvEs, which are negligible for Mk XII gear, what would you do? I personal feel I've done everything I've wanted to and am hoping for X2 to be a nice refresher. Not a cumbersome grind accompanied by a handful of new missions and PvEs.
On another note, if I get lucky and get a Mk XIII gold item, when I upgrade to Mk XIV, that, too, should be gold, right?
http://bit.ly/STOUpgradeTable
Now with preliminary ground items including standard/fleet ground items. Rep items are still WIP. And can someone tell me why 32x2 = 65? :V
Yes, if you get a lucky crit while upgrading from XII Ultraviolet and end up with an XIII Gold, then you'll have an XIV gold after your next (and final) upgrade. During my testing I had a crazy crit from Purple mk IX to Ultraviolet X and then an immediate crit from Ultraviolet X to Gold XI, so all of my upgrades from XI to XIV were gold quality. I doubt I will ever see an insane chance roll like that again until the day the STO server closes.
The upgrade system never lowers quality or mark level (unless it's a bug like with the TR-116B.. and maybe the retrofit phasers).
Joined January 2009
Also, any word on the tregolar swords being upgradable please? For the sake of Yarr!
Free dil box?
On Tribble you can claim a test box that awards dilithium.
I agree. You got my vote. Also, I'd love to have access to tribble. I bet a ton others would too.
Isn't that how it always is? "But...but...but... you guys wit no monies can grind? So you dont have no anything to complain about"..... But what if we don't want to grind and our tired of it? "Well, as the Swedish priest put it, Fek off!".
Tribble is awesome for testing build changes and lobi gear. I miss it. One more month.
For the stockpile, I grindededed it...
For the dilithium, I like CCE anyway, and I tend to use alts to try things out since character slots are cheaper than Respec tokens... so I had a number of well-equipped characters to do the Event with. I have the Emergency Conn Hologram on several characters now, and I have a decent chunk of dilithium stored on the Dilithium Exchange (if you really want to buy my dilithium at 100 dilithium:1 Zen, I won't complain :P) to prevent a misclick on the Finish Now button while I lazily cycle my 20 hr Research assignments. I'm not opposed to spending money on the game, but since the KDF chunk of our allied Fleets gets most of my attention I don't see the need... they don't offer enough things to the KDF or Rom factions as of now to properly motivate my spending.
For the EC's, I had been selling my TRIBBLE and slowly building up a reserve. Then, I got bored and I used a couple Master Keys I had sitting around... and got a Galor (yeah, super lucky). The Galor went on the Exchange and the EC's were added to my stockpile. I have Event ships if I really feel the need for a T5-U11, thank you, and I'll probably just get a C-Store T6-10 in anticipation of the Fleet T6-11. Plus, since I sold it the price on the Galor has dropped significantly as others have figured out the alternatives, so if I really want it back I've already made a reasonable (if not "1%" level) profit by selling it. I don't care enough about a BtC weapon to spend that kind of resources, but I'll sell it for that kind of resources quite happily.
As far as the whole cumbersome... I like having alts. The way the current system is designed is expensive enough that making (properly geared) endgame alts like we currently can is becoming cost-prohibitive, and the increasing prevalence of time-gating projects that take time-gated resources from time-gated queues does not make the game more fun. The stockpile I have built is intended to help mitigate the cumbersome nature of the upgrade system as it stands, but if it still looks like a pain in the aft in spite of my stockpiling I plan to give it to my Fleets since they've made my stay in STO more pleasant.
As to the "do something else" part, you're right... in STO what you listed is what there is to do. I like STO and the community (even those that disagree with me, since sometimes they're right
All of that is contingent on what Delta Rising has to offer, of course. It looks a tad gloom-and-DOOOMMM... but it's really not. I'll see what shows up, and if it's worth the time I'll revel in the new goodness Delta Rising has to offer... if it's not, I won't. Fun games are fun.
Exo-Plating Armor MK XI becomes a normal blue Polly Alloy without mods when you try to upgrade it.
Personal Mobility Shield MK XI Becomes a normal shield when you try to upgrade it.
Leveless Tal Shiar Adapted Borg Warp Core cannot be upgraded at all.
As it stands, it goes like this... I want to have fun. Answer: Play the game and get to top level... Done. I still want to have fun. Answer: PvE/PvP..... I get my [REDACTED] handed to me. Solution: get better gear. How do I get better gear? Answer: Grind or pay. Since when is it fun to get your [REDACTED] handed to you? Sure, it could be a learning experience, but unless you have better gear, it really serves no point does it? But I digress. Reality is, we've all, literally, in both senses, have played your game cryptic. Both STO and your game of pay or grind. We earned what we have. Give us content. Not more "Here's a little more content, now pay or grind". If you don't mind this concept, more power to you. But it's about time we got swamped with actual content. Content does NOT equal grinding.
OOO! The borg core.... I forgot about that one. Yeah, that better be upgrade-able.
Sort of. Playing around, you get a massive gain from getting to Mk XII purple but the gains after that are fairly academic. I wouldn't necessarily chase getting legendary in every slot.
Also, playing around, you'd be looking at consuming thousands of dollars worth of dilithium if you were an impatient person trying to get all oranges.
The funny thing is that the value of dilithium will spike which favors people who play a lot but don't have a lot of money.
Assuming there isn't an exodus. If there is, it won't really matter. But yes. As of right now, I don't have enough dil to convert to zen in order to upgrade my gal X. But, hopefully, with the "spike" I will be able to.
In all honesty, I'm another one in total agreement with you on this point. I too see Delta Rising as a make or break point for STO and I'm praying it works out for the better.