Its more like... *crickets... [update].. *crickets* ..."Free socks for your remen toon!"
No, it's more like... *crickets*...[REDACTED]....[UPDATE]... *crickets*..."Free socks for your Reman characters! But you have to grind over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again. But have fun!"
Me: Facepalm
They are killing this game and this is how they are doing it.
They don't care. Do you know how many people I've seen say the same thing? And you want to know the developers response? *crickets*..... [Update].... *crickets*
And that is the main issue with this game. It really discourages testing when your feedback goes completely ignored.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
The problem is not the cost, it's actually not all that much above Fleet gear - "Technically" that is. In a perfect situation, with a perfect outcome with favorable results from the RNG Gods ... VR to UR is around 30K Dil ... which is not bad ... Of course that does NOT account for any time you click "finish now"
The problems are:
1) The lack of "chooseable" mods when you Upgrade from Rarity to Rarity
2) The absolutely ludicrous amount of TP required for UR --> Epic upgrade. (360,000+ Seriously?)
3) This ties into point 2 ... The fracken RNG % for a rarity upgrade!
For a giggle I upgraded the KCB today from VR --> UR ... it ended up with a [dmg] mod ... Yay ... That was bad enough, but it only took about 3 "fills" of the TP Bar @312,000, But hey it's free, so I decided to got to Epic ...
(I remind you 360,000+ per upgrade at that level) It took until 47% before the RNG popped and it gave me an Epic. That's approx. 28 Superior Tech Kits each time, and I stopped counting after about 200+ kits!
And this doesn't take into account the amount I had to spend on actually crafting all those kits ... Millions of EC's worth of Mats for a start! If i just relied on drops from missions and STF's ... I'd still be trying to get that Epic KCB in 2020!
...
But then that's the plan isn't it? ... So when do we see the Coalescent Ward? The one for 1000Z that will guarantee an upgrade?
The problem is not the cost, it's actually not all that much above Fleet gear - "Technically" that is. In a perfect situation, with a perfect outcome with favorable results from the RNG Gods ... VR to UR is around 30K Dil ... which is not bad ... Of course that does NOT account for any time you click "finish now"
The problems are:
1) The lack of "chooseable" mods when you Upgrade from Rarity to Rarity
2) The absolutely ludicrous amount of TP required for UR --> Epic upgrade. (360,000+ Seriously?)
3) This ties into point 2 ... The fracken RNG % for a rarity upgrade!
For a giggle I upgraded the KCB today from VR --> UR ... it ended up with a [dmg] mod ... Yay ... That was bad enough, but it only took about 3 "fills" of the TP Bar @312,000, But hey it's free, so I decided to got to Epic ...
(I remind you 360,000+ per upgrade at that level) It took until 47% before the RNG popped and it gave me an Epic. That's approx. 28 Superior Tech Kits each time, and I stopped counting after about 200+ kits!
And this doesn't take into account the amount I had to spend on actually crafting all those kits ... Millions of EC's worth of Mats for a start! If i just relied on drops from missions and STF's ... I'd still be trying to get that Epic KCB in 2020!
...
But then that's the plan isn't it? ... So when do we see the Coalescent Ward? The one for 1000Z that will guarantee an upgrade?
The price IS too high. But not by much. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit#gid=0
Facts speak for themselves. Mod control is an issue but its only cosmetic compared to that of the prices to get from mk XII to mk XIV. Its only after that's settled that we can worry about mods. considering that I won't be bumping up in quality until after I have my mk XIV version. I think you also forgot the fact that ever time you poppedin those 200+ kits for just the one item, you were charged dilithium each time.
The problem is not the cost, it's actually not all that much above Fleet gear - "Technically" that is. In a perfect situation, with a perfect outcome with favorable results from the RNG Gods ... VR to UR is around 30K Dil ... which is not bad ... Of course that does NOT account for any time you click "finish now"
The problems are:
1) The lack of "chooseable" mods when you Upgrade from Rarity to Rarity
2) The absolutely ludicrous amount of TP required for UR --> Epic upgrade. (360,000+ Seriously?)
3) This ties into point 2 ... The fracken RNG % for a rarity upgrade!
For a giggle I upgraded the KCB today from VR --> UR ... it ended up with a [dmg] mod ... Yay ... That was bad enough, but it only took about 3 "fills" of the TP Bar @312,000, But hey it's free, so I decided to got to Epic ...
(I remind you 360,000+ per upgrade at that level) It took until 47% before the RNG popped and it gave me an Epic. That's approx. 28 Superior Tech Kits each time, and I stopped counting after about 200+ kits!
And this doesn't take into account the amount I had to spend on actually crafting all those kits ... Millions of EC's worth of Mats for a start! If i just relied on drops from missions and STF's ... I'd still be trying to get that Epic KCB in 2020!
...
But then that's the plan isn't it? ... So when do we see the Coalescent Ward? The one for 1000Z that will guarantee an upgrade?
I do feel the price is too high but getting exactly what I want is more of the issue. Not having a choice in the mods I get for upgrades completely makes it a waste of time for me. All of my ships use weapons with the same mods. I like them all the same! As much as I don't like the cost, I would say that comes third for my top 3 gripes with upgrading. Second is definitely the rarity increase. This truly is just a low blow and a further deterrent from bothering with this whole upgrade system.
To make it simple for PWE, I've listed them.
1. Random mod upgrades! These needs to be choice in what your upgrades get.
2. The rarity increase is not fair for anyone! This needs to be adjusted so after a few tries (3 maximum), your rarity upgrade is guaranteed.
3. The cost of upgrading is too high! No matter how you look at it, this system hurts players with multiple characters and players with only one or two characters. Please scale back on the pay to win here.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
Update: After the latest update, my Hyper-Impulse Engines mentioned in the previous post still cannot be upgraded while having the correct amount of TP.
I thought the purpose of Tribble was for guinea pigs? It's sad to know that even WITH Tribble, not all the issues will be dealt with. Why do I even bother with this game anymore?
Oh Yeah! I love Star Trek an there's no other Star Trek game I could play :rolleyes:
They don't care. Do you know how many people I've seen say the same thing? And you want to know the developers response? *crickets*..... [Update].... *crickets*
No, it's more like... *crickets*...[REDACTED]....[UPDATE]... *crickets*..."Free socks for your Reman characters! But you have to grind over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again. But have fun!"
Me: Facepalm
They are killing this game and this is how they are doing it.
You're right, but lets say they actually acknowledged us but still didn't do anything. Then what? I'd say exodus.
Guys, this is a crafting system feedback thread. Spamming it up with pointless and off-topic negativity and then saying "Why don't they listen to feedback" is kind of self-defeating. Try to stay on topic and put your negativity elsewhere.
I do feel the price is too high but getting exactly what I want is more of the issue. Not having a choice in the mods I get for upgrades completely makes it a waste of time for me. All of my ships use weapons with the same mods. I like them all the same! As much as I don't like the cost, I would say that comes third for my top 3 gripes with upgrading. Second is definitely the rarity increase. This truly is just a low blow and a further deterrent from bothering with this whole upgrade system.
To make it simple for PWE, I've listed them.
1. Random mod upgrades! These needs to be choice in what your upgrades get.
2. The rarity increase is not fair for anyone! This needs to be adjusted so after a few tries (3 maximum), your rarity upgrade is guaranteed.
3. The cost of upgrading is too high! No matter how you look at it, this system hurts players with multiple characters and players with only one or two characters. Please scale back on the pay to win here.
I actually think the quality upgrade is fair. For example, you paid for fleet UR mk XIIs, you didn't pay for mk XIV golds. As a result, it should cost a bit to upgrade in quality. However, since fleet mk XII URs are the best you can purchase, the cost to move from mk XII to mk XIV should be significantly cheaper since there is no way around it. Random mod upgrades is also an issue, however, that lies tangent to the rarity upgrades.
I believe, that for when you upgrade to a higher quality you should be allowed to choose the mod you receive. I should clearify, IMO, moving from VR to UR, or UR to gold should be expensive. However, White to VR should not. Also, moving from Mk XII to mk XII should NOT be expensive.
Update: After the latest update, my Hyper-Impulse Engines mentioned in the previous post still cannot be upgraded while having the correct amount of TP.
Guys, this is a crafting system feedback thread. Spamming it up with pointless and off-topic negativity and then saying "Why don't they listen to feedback" is kind of self-defeating. Try to stay on topic and put your negativity elsewhere.
Hehe! You just contributed to it. Good job . but you are right, it is off-topic, but relevant. And it may be "negative" but how do you turn a negative into a positive? Answer: Change. It may be "negative" but it's still feedback. So ,in essence, you are saying "positive feedback only please".
Also, this isn't a crafting feedback thread. And no, its not self defeating. It actually proves a point. If the devs only want to hear positivity as opposed to negativity by ignoring it than the game will not become better. As a developer, you have to look at feedback objectively, not emotionally. A response of "What purpose does this serve? Going by previous experience, when we acknowledge a bug, or say it's on our list, if that bug is not then fixed immediately, we get yelled at about never fixing bugs. If we say nothing, we get yelled at about never fixing bugs. So to us, the output is the same." is simply an excuse. Yes, bugs take time. But 3+ years for some? i.e. cloaking bug of 1/11/11. There is merit to most of our madness. I'll admit we have overreacted in the past but saying that that's the reason for them being distant and for that being our fault is just immature. The devs have the control, we do not. They can either choose to take control of a situation or not. Not turtle up and wait for it to end. Because it won't when you decide to not get a grip and address the issues. Not just put it on a list.
I was done talking about this but your chiming in has instigated this.
Guys, this is a crafting system feedback thread. Spamming it up with pointless and off-topic negativity and then saying "Why don't they listen to feedback" is kind of self-defeating. Try to stay on topic and put your negativity elsewhere.
I'm inclined to agree with this. It's not helping in any way, shape, or form and it's burying bug posts under several pages of rambling.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
With regard to the fixed mods that VR set (deflectors/engines/cores/shields) pieces get, are those generalized to the type or are they more specifically fixed?
The Delta Deflector gets X...do all set Deflectors get X or do some get Y?
Couldn't help but notice what the UR pieces from Smirk's livestream had...and was wondering if those were going to be for all or were just an example of fixed mods?
With regard to the fixed mods that VR set (deflectors/engines/cores/shields) pieces get, are those generalized to the type or are they more specifically fixed?
The Delta Deflector gets X...do all set Deflectors get X or do some get Y?
Couldn't help but notice what the UR pieces from Smirk's livestream had...and was wondering if those were going to be for all or were just an example of fixed mods?
Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.
hmmm.. well then you've answered your own question. If that isn't enough info I implore you to look at crafted UR Aegis sets. those have specific added mods. I'd assume a similar system will be applied to upgrading current sets. But, if I understand your question, you want to know if the +1 mod for like the borg engines will be identical to that of the MACO? Its a good question although I don't see what good it will do. What would your response be if they were different? What would your response be if they were the same? Regardless, at this point, change is improbable.
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone.
I noticed something strange when upgrading the levelless version of the Retro Phaser banks from the Connie Class C-Store ship. The weapons start off as rare levelless item but after choosing to upgrade one they change to a uncommon mark ten version.
The DPS decreases slightly from 273.5 on a level 50 toon on Holodeck to 271.8 on the same toon on Tribble. The weapon also looses the bonus stat of disabling one subsystem for 5 secs.
The other strange thing about this weapons is that on the ground on Holodeck it has a DPS value of 163.6 and 273.5 in space. On Tribble the ground stat is 4.3 dps and 271.8 in space.
In prior posts it was said that levelless items would upgrade to mark 12 when the enter the upgrade system and the would keep their bonus status and rarity. Please confirm that this is a bug as I was looking forward to using this blue phasers at endgame after I upgrade them.
I actually think the quality upgrade is fair. For example, you paid for fleet UR mk XIIs, you didn't pay for mk XIV golds. As a result, it should cost a bit to upgrade in quality. However, since fleet mk XII URs are the best you can purchase, the cost to move from mk XII to mk XIV should be significantly cheaper since there is no way around it. Random mod upgrades is also an issue, however, that lies tangent to the rarity upgrades.
I believe, that for when you upgrade to a higher quality you should be allowed to choose the mod you receive. I should clearify, IMO, moving from VR to UR, or UR to gold should be expensive. However, White to VR should not. Also, moving from Mk XII to mk XII should NOT be expensive.
I was thinking about this and maybe what should happen, ideally, is an Upgrade mod that guarantees a certain stat.
Don't use the mod, get a random stat. Use the mod, get a guaranteed stat.
If that isn't enough info I implore you to look at crafted UR Aegis sets. those have specific added mods.
They're not Rep Set pieces though. Yes, the UR Aegis pieces on the Exchange all share the same mod - which in some cases is the same as what Smirk had on his Delta gear - but not always. They'd also not be the only UR gear, as Fleet Gear is UR and has variable mods - though you know what you're getting there as you buy it.
But, if I understand your question, you want to know if the +1 mod for like the borg engines will be identical to that of the MACO? Its a good question although I don't see what good it will do. What would your response be if they were different? What would your response be if they were the same? Regardless, at this point, change is improbable.
The difference would make a big difference as far as how the build is planned out. There is a big difference between a Deflector getting [SciCdr] and getting [SsD]...
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
They're not Rep Set pieces though. Yes, the UR Aegis pieces on the Exchange all share the same mod - which in some cases is the same as what Smirk had on his Delta gear - but not always. They'd also not be the only UR gear, as Fleet Gear is UR and has variable mods - though you know what you're getting there as you buy it.
The Aegis pieces are [SsD], [Full], and [C/R] which is the Gold mod on a UR piece. Heh, wonder if that means Gold Aegis Shields are [C/R]x2, eh?
There's way too much assumption going on in general and it would be nifty to have a little less cryptic answers from Cryptic on certain things.
The difference would make a big difference as far as how the build is planned out. There is a big difference between a Deflector getting [SciCdr] and getting [SsD]...
Although true, you can't actually make the build until the drop of X2. So you would find out the actual answer to your question then and build accordingly. That's what I'd plan to do since getting answers is like pulling teeth at this point, and that's ignoring the fact that they won't change much of anything anyways.
Pure subjective feedback. Its a nice system all in all. I tried to upgrade one of the new beam array's to epic. It had gone pretty smooth till there, then about a million dilithium later it's still not, and only 15% of a chance, and I gave up.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
Pure subjective feedback. Its a nice system all in all. I tried to upgrade one of the new beam array's to epic. It had gone pretty smooth till there, then about a million dilithium later it's still not, and only 15% of a chance, and I gave up.
All mods guarantee the stats associated with them. Its the mods that are not guaranteed.
I'm not talking about an item modifier. I'm talking about a separate item that would mod the upgrade. An item that modifies an upgrade, not a stat mod.
I'm not talking about an item modifier. I'm talking about a separate item that would mod the upgrade. An item that modifies an upgrade, not a stat mod.
Interesting. So we'd have something like:
Basic Tech Upgrade
Improved Tech Upgrade
Superior Tech Upgrade
Superior (Experimental) Tech Upgrade
and then some 'mod' upgrades like:
[CrtH] Tech Upgrade
[CrtD] Tech Upgrade
[SST] Tech Upgrade
[Cap] Tech Upgrade
[AMP] Tech Upgrade
[SciCdr] Tech Upgrade
etc. etc. etc. for most of the available mods in the game.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Okay. So my observations from playing around more.
Federation Type 1 and Type 2 (both the white quality C-Store item and the blue quality mission reward) have no option to upgrade. Last I heard this was true for the Type 3 rifle as well.
I think where this system gets a bit ridiculous is outfitting an away team.
A full away team (plus self) involves 23 items that need to be upgraded, not counting kits which get their own upgrades.
This is compared to a space set which has (for a Tier 5U cruiser the costliest possible space setup for upgrading), 23. (11 consoles, +engines/shield/deflector/warpcore, +8 weapons slots).
The problem is, it is much, much easier to simply let ground slide for your NPC away team's gear and ground remains less popular.
I think either ground costs need to be reduced or we need some means of duping our Captain's gear for our away team at a flat cost per item.
All in all I thought that the upgrade system would be better than it is.
First : Currently, taking into account the cost Dil wise, It would be smarter to just add the rep gear upgrades directly into the rep system the gear came from. Or better yet offer a Mk XIV version of the gear in the rep system. It is entirely to costly to get the gear then have to spend the same amount of dil it took to get the gear in the first place just to raise it 2 lvls from XII to XIV, and hope for a rarity increase.
Second : Trying to rank the gear up in rarity is entirely broken. The cost to chance ratio is way way off there. Taking into account the new rep system that's coming, it basically comes down to Upgrades vs. Gear....with an almost non existent chance for a rarity increase.
Third : Upgrades vs Gear. Going back to the new rep system, have you taken into account the fact that people know how much Dil they need for the rep gear, going on a 1 Con, 1 torp, 1 beam/cannon type weapon (Both a beam and cannon type on the new rep), plus Shields, engines, deflector and core. Cost wise that is more than doo able however with the way the upgrade system stands now you take the dil cost for those mentioned then add on the rest of your ships build...gets to the point where a person is left asking what's the point.
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
Pure subjective feedback. Its a nice system all in all. I tried to upgrade one of the new beam array's to epic. It had gone pretty smooth till there, then about a million dilithium later it's still not, and only 15% of a chance, and I gave up.
^This ... This is the problem! 18,000 to 25,000 Dil for an Epic item is NOT overly expensive! If it works first time every time!
As I said in my earlier pots, it took until 47% Chance before the RNG gave me an Epic, and it took probably about 15 "cycles" to get to that! ... That is what is WRONG ...
It should give you Way more Rarity Upgrade Chance per "click" And particularly when using "Superior TEch Kits, it should be filling to at LEAST 75% on one fill of the TP bar, if it still fails, it should go up to 100% for the second fill.
But I will guarantee, that they will have C-Store items that will alleviate this problem .. Just like they did with Neverwinter ...
We'll have Nanoprobe Tech Kits, that give 50,000 TP or we'll have Ferengi Upgrade Kits that give 100,000 TP ... Then we'll have the STO version of Coalescent wards for 1000Zen that will guarantee a 100% for a Rarity Upgrade ...
They almost will completely monetize the acquisition of Epic gear, so that realistically on those that spend money the C-Store could get them ... But with a 1 in 500 Billion chance of getting one of these C-Store items as a loot drop or LB drop, so they "technically" can't be accused of P2W or P2P ...
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
The Basic upgrades from the vendor are a trap. They are almost 4.3x more expensive than using Superior upgrade tech. Even crafting the Basics yourself will save 25%.
Example:
Very Rare space weapon Mk XII to XIII - Cost: 64000TP
# of Basic Upgrades needed: 32
# of Improved Upgrades needed: 13
# of Superior Upgrades needed: 5
Dil cost if using Basic upgrades: 22,400
Dil cost if using Improved upgrades: 12,350
Dil cost if using Superior upgrades: 5,375
EC cost if buying Basic upgrades from the vendor: 320,000 (10,000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Basic upgrades: 240,000 (7500 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Improved upgrades: 195,000 (15000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Superior upgrades: 75,000 (15000 per upgrade)
That being said, it's definitely a moderate EC sink to get to XIV, and a much larger one to get to Gold.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Although true, you can't actually make the build until the drop of X2. So you would find out the actual answer to your question then and build accordingly. That's what I'd plan to do since getting answers is like pulling teeth at this point, and that's ignoring the fact that they won't change much of anything anyways.
If you wait until DR drops, you're already going to be behind.
Comments
No, it's more like... *crickets*...[REDACTED]....[UPDATE]... *crickets*..."Free socks for your Reman characters! But you have to grind over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again. But have fun!"
Me: Facepalm
They are killing this game and this is how they are doing it.
And that is the main issue with this game. It really discourages testing when your feedback goes completely ignored.
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You're right, but lets say they actually acknowledged us but still didn't do anything. Then what? I'd say exodus.
The problems are:
1) The lack of "chooseable" mods when you Upgrade from Rarity to Rarity
2) The absolutely ludicrous amount of TP required for UR --> Epic upgrade. (360,000+ Seriously?)
3) This ties into point 2 ... The fracken RNG % for a rarity upgrade!
For a giggle I upgraded the KCB today from VR --> UR ... it ended up with a [dmg] mod ... Yay ... That was bad enough, but it only took about 3 "fills" of the TP Bar @312,000, But hey it's free, so I decided to got to Epic ...
(I remind you 360,000+ per upgrade at that level) It took until 47% before the RNG popped and it gave me an Epic. That's approx. 28 Superior Tech Kits each time, and I stopped counting after about 200+ kits!
And this doesn't take into account the amount I had to spend on actually crafting all those kits ... Millions of EC's worth of Mats for a start! If i just relied on drops from missions and STF's ... I'd still be trying to get that Epic KCB in 2020!
...
But then that's the plan isn't it? ... So when do we see the Coalescent Ward? The one for 1000Z that will guarantee an upgrade?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JU8ciOpp5kbplvwFanr7ast9THnAwC3LywmYHZREMx0/edit#gid=0
Facts speak for themselves. Mod control is an issue but its only cosmetic compared to that of the prices to get from mk XII to mk XIV. Its only after that's settled that we can worry about mods. considering that I won't be bumping up in quality until after I have my mk XIV version. I think you also forgot the fact that ever time you poppedin those 200+ kits for just the one item, you were charged dilithium each time.
I do feel the price is too high but getting exactly what I want is more of the issue. Not having a choice in the mods I get for upgrades completely makes it a waste of time for me. All of my ships use weapons with the same mods. I like them all the same! As much as I don't like the cost, I would say that comes third for my top 3 gripes with upgrading. Second is definitely the rarity increase. This truly is just a low blow and a further deterrent from bothering with this whole upgrade system.
To make it simple for PWE, I've listed them.
1. Random mod upgrades! These needs to be choice in what your upgrades get.
2. The rarity increase is not fair for anyone! This needs to be adjusted so after a few tries (3 maximum), your rarity upgrade is guaranteed.
3. The cost of upgrading is too high! No matter how you look at it, this system hurts players with multiple characters and players with only one or two characters. Please scale back on the pay to win here.
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Guys, this is a crafting system feedback thread. Spamming it up with pointless and off-topic negativity and then saying "Why don't they listen to feedback" is kind of self-defeating. Try to stay on topic and put your negativity elsewhere.
I actually think the quality upgrade is fair. For example, you paid for fleet UR mk XIIs, you didn't pay for mk XIV golds. As a result, it should cost a bit to upgrade in quality. However, since fleet mk XII URs are the best you can purchase, the cost to move from mk XII to mk XIV should be significantly cheaper since there is no way around it. Random mod upgrades is also an issue, however, that lies tangent to the rarity upgrades.
I believe, that for when you upgrade to a higher quality you should be allowed to choose the mod you receive. I should clearify, IMO, moving from VR to UR, or UR to gold should be expensive. However, White to VR should not. Also, moving from Mk XII to mk XII should NOT be expensive.
Hehe! You just contributed to it. Good job
Also, this isn't a crafting feedback thread. And no, its not self defeating. It actually proves a point. If the devs only want to hear positivity as opposed to negativity by ignoring it than the game will not become better. As a developer, you have to look at feedback objectively, not emotionally. A response of "What purpose does this serve? Going by previous experience, when we acknowledge a bug, or say it's on our list, if that bug is not then fixed immediately, we get yelled at about never fixing bugs. If we say nothing, we get yelled at about never fixing bugs. So to us, the output is the same." is simply an excuse. Yes, bugs take time. But 3+ years for some? i.e. cloaking bug of 1/11/11. There is merit to most of our madness. I'll admit we have overreacted in the past but saying that that's the reason for them being distant and for that being our fault is just immature. The devs have the control, we do not. They can either choose to take control of a situation or not. Not turtle up and wait for it to end. Because it won't when you decide to not get a grip and address the issues. Not just put it on a list.
I was done talking about this but your chiming in has instigated this.
*rant over*
I'm inclined to agree with this. It's not helping in any way, shape, or form and it's burying bug posts under several pages of rambling.
Joined January 2009
The Delta Deflector gets X...do all set Deflectors get X or do some get Y?
Couldn't help but notice what the UR pieces from Smirk's livestream had...and was wondering if those were going to be for all or were just an example of fixed mods?
The only fixed ones are the gold mods.
Er...no...that's not true.
hmmm.. well then you've answered your own question. If that isn't enough info I implore you to look at crafted UR Aegis sets. those have specific added mods. I'd assume a similar system will be applied to upgrading current sets. But, if I understand your question, you want to know if the +1 mod for like the borg engines will be identical to that of the MACO? Its a good question although I don't see what good it will do. What would your response be if they were different? What would your response be if they were the same? Regardless, at this point, change is improbable. Devs have said it themselves.
The DPS decreases slightly from 273.5 on a level 50 toon on Holodeck to 271.8 on the same toon on Tribble. The weapon also looses the bonus stat of disabling one subsystem for 5 secs.
The other strange thing about this weapons is that on the ground on Holodeck it has a DPS value of 163.6 and 273.5 in space. On Tribble the ground stat is 4.3 dps and 271.8 in space.
In prior posts it was said that levelless items would upgrade to mark 12 when the enter the upgrade system and the would keep their bonus status and rarity. Please confirm that this is a bug as I was looking forward to using this blue phasers at endgame after I upgrade them.
Thank you for your time,
@gadgettek
I was thinking about this and maybe what should happen, ideally, is an Upgrade mod that guarantees a certain stat.
Don't use the mod, get a random stat. Use the mod, get a guaranteed stat.
My character Tsin'xing
Er, that's how I arrived at my question...
They're not Rep Set pieces though. Yes, the UR Aegis pieces on the Exchange all share the same mod - which in some cases is the same as what Smirk had on his Delta gear - but not always. They'd also not be the only UR gear, as Fleet Gear is UR and has variable mods - though you know what you're getting there as you buy it.
Ah, found the image from the livestream.
Deflector [SciCdr]
Engine [Full]
Shield [Cap]
Core [AMP]
The Aegis pieces are [SsD], [Full], and [C/R] which is the Gold mod on a UR piece. Heh, wonder if that means Gold Aegis Shields are [C/R]x2, eh?
There's way too much assumption going on in general and it would be nifty to have a little less cryptic answers from Cryptic on certain things.
The difference would make a big difference as far as how the build is planned out. There is a big difference between a Deflector getting [SciCdr] and getting [SsD]...
All mods guarantee the stats associated with them. Its the mods that are not guaranteed.
http://bit.ly/STOUpgradeTable
Currently only for space gear. Read the notes for descriptions and exceptions and all that jazz.
Joined January 2009
I'm not talking about an item modifier. I'm talking about a separate item that would mod the upgrade. An item that modifies an upgrade, not a stat mod.
Interesting. So we'd have something like:
Basic Tech Upgrade
Improved Tech Upgrade
Superior Tech Upgrade
Superior (Experimental) Tech Upgrade
and then some 'mod' upgrades like:
[CrtH] Tech Upgrade
[CrtD] Tech Upgrade
[SST] Tech Upgrade
[Cap] Tech Upgrade
[AMP] Tech Upgrade
[SciCdr] Tech Upgrade
etc. etc. etc. for most of the available mods in the game.
Joined January 2009
Federation Type 1 and Type 2 (both the white quality C-Store item and the blue quality mission reward) have no option to upgrade. Last I heard this was true for the Type 3 rifle as well.
I think where this system gets a bit ridiculous is outfitting an away team.
A full away team (plus self) involves 23 items that need to be upgraded, not counting kits which get their own upgrades.
This is compared to a space set which has (for a Tier 5U cruiser the costliest possible space setup for upgrading), 23. (11 consoles, +engines/shield/deflector/warpcore, +8 weapons slots).
The problem is, it is much, much easier to simply let ground slide for your NPC away team's gear and ground remains less popular.
I think either ground costs need to be reduced or we need some means of duping our Captain's gear for our away team at a flat cost per item.
All in all I thought that the upgrade system would be better than it is.
First : Currently, taking into account the cost Dil wise, It would be smarter to just add the rep gear upgrades directly into the rep system the gear came from. Or better yet offer a Mk XIV version of the gear in the rep system. It is entirely to costly to get the gear then have to spend the same amount of dil it took to get the gear in the first place just to raise it 2 lvls from XII to XIV, and hope for a rarity increase.
Second : Trying to rank the gear up in rarity is entirely broken. The cost to chance ratio is way way off there. Taking into account the new rep system that's coming, it basically comes down to Upgrades vs. Gear....with an almost non existent chance for a rarity increase.
Third : Upgrades vs Gear. Going back to the new rep system, have you taken into account the fact that people know how much Dil they need for the rep gear, going on a 1 Con, 1 torp, 1 beam/cannon type weapon (Both a beam and cannon type on the new rep), plus Shields, engines, deflector and core. Cost wise that is more than doo able however with the way the upgrade system stands now you take the dil cost for those mentioned then add on the rest of your ships build...gets to the point where a person is left asking what's the point.
Finally : EC cost. That's a big one or will be to a lot of people. Just to see what the cost to upgrade was, I purchased upgrade kits at ESD...basic ones yes but still. Yeah cost wise for non crafters ( not saying crafting is the only way just the easiest ), this is going to cause a lot of issues...which in the long run is going to turn even more people off to the upgrade system as it is now. Just my views not everyone will agree but that's what Ive seen so far.
^This ... This is the problem! 18,000 to 25,000 Dil for an Epic item is NOT overly expensive! If it works first time every time!
As I said in my earlier pots, it took until 47% Chance before the RNG gave me an Epic, and it took probably about 15 "cycles" to get to that! ... That is what is WRONG ...
It should give you Way more Rarity Upgrade Chance per "click" And particularly when using "Superior TEch Kits, it should be filling to at LEAST 75% on one fill of the TP bar, if it still fails, it should go up to 100% for the second fill.
But I will guarantee, that they will have C-Store items that will alleviate this problem .. Just like they did with Neverwinter ...
We'll have Nanoprobe Tech Kits, that give 50,000 TP or we'll have Ferengi Upgrade Kits that give 100,000 TP ... Then we'll have the STO version of Coalescent wards for 1000Zen that will guarantee a 100% for a Rarity Upgrade ...
They almost will completely monetize the acquisition of Epic gear, so that realistically on those that spend money the C-Store could get them ... But with a 1 in 500 Billion chance of getting one of these C-Store items as a loot drop or LB drop, so they "technically" can't be accused of P2W or P2P ...
The Basic upgrades from the vendor are a trap. They are almost 4.3x more expensive than using Superior upgrade tech. Even crafting the Basics yourself will save 25%.
Example:
Very Rare space weapon Mk XII to XIII - Cost: 64000TP
# of Basic Upgrades needed: 32
# of Improved Upgrades needed: 13
# of Superior Upgrades needed: 5
Dil cost if using Basic upgrades: 22,400
Dil cost if using Improved upgrades: 12,350
Dil cost if using Superior upgrades: 5,375
EC cost if buying Basic upgrades from the vendor: 320,000 (10,000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Basic upgrades: 240,000 (7500 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Improved upgrades: 195,000 (15000 per upgrade)
EC cost if crafting Superior upgrades: 75,000 (15000 per upgrade)
That being said, it's definitely a moderate EC sink to get to XIV, and a much larger one to get to Gold.
Joined January 2009
If you wait until DR drops, you're already going to be behind.