Uh, his company IS a business. Just not a good one...
So I guess this means Divergence has no crafting/item upgrade system at all?
Well not yet... its in alpha. But the overall concept of the game is a lot more gamer friendly than current mmo concepts. I guess you will never get it. In a proper gaming business, money comes second. Whether thats better or worse to other businesses is comparing apples to oranges. But we are getting very much off-topic and I apologize.
The cost of the upgrade from mk 12 to 14 is probably twice what I would have condsidered reasonable but I'd have likely rolled with that. This wait time though....there is no earthly reason to put that in except to inspire more money purchases. This for things we already bought.
Also leary about the power of gold gear. A little bump or a lot. A significant leap in power worries me and brings the game closer to p2w. Yes, theoretically you can grind it out for all the best stuff but when the grind is so far beyind the reach of all but the most extreme end of the player population, it slides to p2w.
Gaming is not about profit. It's about fun. The creator of Divergence: Online said that he would be willing to go without a paycheck ot keep the game going. he already has for 2 years! Thats true gaming. Thats the heart of a true gamer. Making it business is just an exploitation. If your aim is to always make money when it comes to video games, you have already missed it. I implore you to watch the videos Ethan (Divergence:online creator) has put on his website on this very topic. Its quite inspiring.
I'm sorry, but that put a smile on my face.
I imagine you seeing the Cryptic Devs sitting in a coffee shop talking about profit margins...they notice you and you just say to them, "What happened to you man? You've changed. You used to be about the music."
The cost of the upgrade from mk 12 to 14 is probably twice what I would have condsidered reasonable but I'd have likely rolled with that. This wait time though....there is no earthly reason to put that in except to inspire more money purchases. This for things we already bought.
Also leary about the power of gold gear. A little bump or a lot. A significant leap in power worries me and brings the game closer to p2w. Yes, theoretically you can grind it out for all the best stuff but when the grind is so far beyind the reach of all but the most extreme end of the player population, it slides to p2w.
Especially on the items that we actually paid dilithium for.
On the one hand the RPer in me likes the time wait as it seems like the time it would take to manufacture the item.
On the other hand I think back to Crafting and that HUGE blinking blue button that says FINISH NOW XXXX Dilithium. It's like just, "Stop. I'm not gonna pay it. I'm gonna continue stockpiling dilithium for my next fleet project and keep it moving. So stop. Please...it's embarrassing. I have patience and you're making a ***** of yourself. A ***** with a neon sign. And it's sad."
EDIT: Man the W word is censored too? My bad forums.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
If STO was a game with the same strong ship combat, ground action more focused on away teams exploring new planets, then no one would really complain.
i agree at 100%; this is simply what i want. i don't need shiny stuff which finally are used to do always the same thing again and again.
I'm a trekkie not a farmer/grinder; i want to be a Picard (with hair of course) :P
when i joined this game, i was really amazed, but now at lvl50, i'm just tired to do always the same things. I have no pleasure, this is not funny; and at lvl 60, this will be the same thing. Give us exploration; ok the old exploration wasn't great, but at least, we had something else to do. I played a lot of time a kind of tourist travelling on different planets, where i took screenshots with my boffs; damn' this was funny
And to do that no need of GOLD crappy stuff, no need of this crafting system. if they need money; they should remove the possibility to buy c-store stuff with dil (dil->zen) and add some nice small things at a reasonable price.
I imagine you seeing the Cryptic Devs sitting in a coffee shop talking about profit margins...they notice you and you just say to them, "What happened to you man? You've changed. You used to be about the music."
Especially on the items that we actually paid dilithium for.
On the one hand the RPer in me likes the time wait as it seems like the time it would take to manufacture the item.
On the other hand I think back to Crafting and that HUGE blinking blue button that says FINISH NOW XXXX Dilithium. It's like just, "Stop. I'm not gonna pay it. I'm gonna continue stockpiling dilithium for my next fleet project and keep it moving. So stop. Please...it's embarrassing. I have patience and you're making a ***** of yourself. A ***** with a neon sign. And it's sad."
Aye...hear you and agree. Really no need for this complicated system. Want 18k dil out of us to go from mk 12 to 14? Put an upgrade vendor at appropriate shipyards, let us pay it and be done. Dont want us to take the leap right away in gear...make 13 usable at lv 55 and 14 at lvl 60. Problem fixed and we are all relatively happy I think. Lastly, it would show a respect for our time as we'd rather spend it playing the game than playing with sliders/projects.
On the other hand I think back to Crafting and that HUGE blinking blue button that says FINISH NOW XXXX Dilithium. It's like just, "Stop. I'm not gonna pay it. I'm gonna continue stockpiling dilithium for my next fleet project and keep it moving. So stop. Please...it's embarrassing. I have patience and you're making a ***** of yourself. A ***** with a neon sign. And it's sad.
On tribble someone upgraded a weapon from Mk 12 to 13 hitting finish now every time. Cost 480k dil. Without the finish now it cost only 38k. All I could think was " what a difference a day makes".
I imagine you seeing the Cryptic Devs sitting in a coffee shop talking about profit margins...they notice you and you just say to them, "What happened to you man? You've changed. You used to be about the music."
Especially on the items that we actually paid dilithium for.
On the one hand the RPer in me likes the time wait as it seems like the time it would take to manufacture the item.
On the other hand I think back to Crafting and that HUGE blinking blue button that says FINISH NOW XXXX Dilithium. It's like just, "Stop. I'm not gonna pay it. I'm gonna continue stockpiling dilithium for my next fleet project and keep it moving. So stop. Please...it's embarrassing. I have patience and you're making a ***** of yourself. A ***** with a neon sign. And it's sad."
EDIT: Man the W word is censored too? My bad forums.
On the contrary, I see PWE sitting around worried about money while Cryptic has to make it by circumstance.
The concept itself of this upgrade system, I think, is a good one.
However, the costs involved, I think, make the upgrade system into yet another time (and dilithium) sink and grind fest.
But that IS the game. I've forgotten about STO being about 'Star Trek'. It's an MMO and it's about grind. Who cares what the game is supposed to be about- it IS what it IS.
Grind
Grind
Grind
I became a much happier person when I quit being a trek purist and embraced what an MMO is.
On tribble someone upgraded a weapon from Mk 12 to 13 hitting finish now every time. Cost 480k dil. Without the finish now it cost only 38k. All I could think was " what a difference a day makes".
A-MEN.
I'll wait thank you.
480k dilithium. You can do that on tribble with the free dilithium. In game though? No way...unless you're one of those cats from Beta who has millions of dilithium....actually no, not even then. 480K dilithium across a whole build will wipe out even the fattest dilithium wallet.
On the contrary, I see PWE sitting around worried about money while Cryptic has to make it by circumstance.
Nuanced Truth. Man to be a fly on the wall in those interactions between PWE and Cryptic.
I wonder what the game would be like if it were owned by EA or something....
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
480k dilithium. You can do that on tribble with the free dilithium. In game though? No way...unless you're one of those cats from Beta who has millions of dilithium....actually no, not even then. 480K dilithium across a whole build will wipe out even the fattest dilithium wallet.
OH HELL NO. One is an absolute gamebreaker.
One is a Boarding Party that instantly destroys all Borg Ships.
One is so badass he makes Seven of Nine cry. (I loved that episode).
Nuanced Truth. Man to be a fly on the wall in those interactions between PWE and Cryptic.
I wonder what the game would be like if it were owned by EA or something....
Jeri Ryan: "STO It's in the game!"
Tim Russ: "STO It's in the game"
Star Trek Online: Delta Rising
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
After reading the post, all 50+ pages on this thread and plenty of thought, I like the sound of this upgrade system. I am in no hurry, have loads of Dilithium as I don't spend it and don't need everything immediately, as the game is playable without bells and whistles anyway.
I will upgrade carefully, ensuring best value for Dilithium and time spent against outcome! Like a mini game in its-self...
As I play Eve, this I am used to and am quite good at anyway!
Upgrades have a + from me!, more so than those awful Fed Intelligence ships, which are just not good looking to me!
Is there any reason still to buy the Jem'Hadar space set Lobi gear upgrade? Does it include anything new? It seems like a bit of a bummer if it cost 300 Lobi to turn gear into something everyone can get for 30k dilithium, unless owners of the Lobi pack will get something extra like a hull texture or something on that order.
That upgrade pack has been removed, internally. It will no longer be available once the Upgrade System goes live to Holodeck.
So THAT as they say is that.
Which brings me back to my original question will upgrading the Jem'Hadar ground set also unlock the uniform upgrade. My Magic 8 Ball...well in this 25th century it's a magic Q-ball, but regardless it says, "Things are looking up". EDIT: OR NOT...
The Ground Set also included a Costume Unlock which will need to be purchased separately from now on. So call that a built-in bonus, if you like.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Here's a bit of news from the official feedback thread.
So THAT as they say is that.
Which brings me back to my original question will upgrading the Jem'Hadar ground set also unlock the uniform upgrade. My Magic 8 Ball...well in this 25th century it's a magic Q-ball, but regardless it says, "Things are looking up". EDIT: OR NOT...
So there will no longer be a jem hadar set via lobi? Or will the Mk XI jem hadar set not be upgradeable?
No longer upgraded via lobi. What will be the future method of getting the costume has not been revealed yet.
He said it will need to be purchased separately.
The MACO and other sets in the old MK I rep system had a separate unlock, but there's no Breen or Dominion Rep.
It would be unwieldy through the crafting system so I'm at a loss. Perhaps they'll throw it into the C-store or worse the Lobi store alone, hopefully at a cheaper price.
I think the lobi Mk XII sets will be upgradeable along with the Mk XI but the Mk XII set/version will be no longer available via lobi.
No, he was answering the question of whether there would still be a lobi upgrade. The Lobi upgrade is being phased out and the Upgrade System is going to become the only way to go. So you'll be able to upgrade via the upgrade system the MK XI to MK XII and the MK XII so on and so forth like most other items.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The MACO and other sets in the old MK I rep system had a separate unlock, but there's no Breen or Dominion Rep.
It would be unwieldy through the crafting system so I'm at a loss. Perhaps they'll throw it into the C-store or worse the Lobi store alone, hopefully at a cheaper price.
I doubt it. That would require them to keep two versions of the stats for one that will no longer be available.
No, he was answering the question of whether there would still be a lobi upgrade. The Lobi upgrade is being phased out and the Upgrade System is going to become the only way to go. So you'll be able to upgrade via the upgrade system the MK XI to MK XII and the MK XII so on and so forth like most other items.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Point being, current Mk XI (blue) and Mk XII (purple) sets will be upgradeable to mk XIV gold. For those who have spent lobi to get the mk XII set, you have a head start on getting to mk XIV gold. And the Mk XII set will no longer be available via the lobi consortium.
the costume itself will most likely be obtainable as a separate costume pack from the lobi store, i'm guessing for around as much lobi as the other lobi costumes.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Point being, current Mk XI (blue) and Mk XII (purple) sets will be upgradeable to mk XIV gold. For those who have spent lobi to get the mk XII set, you have a head start on getting to mk XIV gold. And the Mk XII set will no longer be available via the lobi consortium.
the costume itself will most likely be obtainable as a separate costume pack from the lobi store, i'm guessing for around as much lobi as the other lobi costumes.
Agreed. So people who already own it get to skip the upgrade cost from MkXI to MkXII and buying the costume separately.
They are both the same item. Ultra Rare quality will add one mod, and Epic adds one more.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The part of the Jem'Hadar set that will be purchased separately is the costume unlock from the ground set. Both the space and ground set will be removed from the Lobi Store and upgradeable through the new uber "GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY, NOW" system incoming.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
My testing says NO. Apparently the Lobi stats are the new base stats. Even for low tier versions. (mk 6 etc...)
Thank you for the info! (at least as of the latest build, bla bla :9)
Quite interesting.
My Engi can't get enough of Dominion gear, so I look forward to new toys to play with at more suitable tier. The space set is wonderful for a support/drain build compared to the plethora of pew-pew sets. Now if I could just get a Rom carrier to put it all in...
Just a thought... maybe make the dilithium and times costs scale downward with the player's R&D levels...
So for those of us that put time (or dilithium) into the R&D system would have an easier time upgrading gear - which makes sense as if you've invested the time to be lv20 at crafting shields, you would think you'd be able to apply these upgrade kits to those shields in a more efficient (ie cheaper and faster) manner.
That way those that don't want to put anything into the R&D system, get to put their time/dilithium effort into the upgrade system instead.. and those that put their time/dilithium into the R&D system don't need to put as much into the upgrade system. Cryptic still wins, but at least there's a path for those that would rather spend time instead of dilithium, by taking months to get R&D high enough to be beneficial... these people likely wouldn't have spent $ anyway, so no loss for Cryptic, and potentially less rage from players..
The sad thing with this new expansion is (aside from the numerous things I've already said) that now that we know we will have to grind more, I find myself only logging in to refine dilithium or keep rep projects rolling. Thats it.
Comments
Well not yet... its in alpha. But the overall concept of the game is a lot more gamer friendly than current mmo concepts. I guess you will never get it. In a proper gaming business, money comes second. Whether thats better or worse to other businesses is comparing apples to oranges. But we are getting very much off-topic and I apologize.
Also leary about the power of gold gear. A little bump or a lot. A significant leap in power worries me and brings the game closer to p2w. Yes, theoretically you can grind it out for all the best stuff but when the grind is so far beyind the reach of all but the most extreme end of the player population, it slides to p2w.
I'm sorry, but that put a smile on my face.
I imagine you seeing the Cryptic Devs sitting in a coffee shop talking about profit margins...they notice you and you just say to them, "What happened to you man? You've changed. You used to be about the music."
Especially on the items that we actually paid dilithium for.
On the one hand the RPer in me likes the time wait as it seems like the time it would take to manufacture the item.
On the other hand I think back to Crafting and that HUGE blinking blue button that says FINISH NOW XXXX Dilithium. It's like just, "Stop. I'm not gonna pay it. I'm gonna continue stockpiling dilithium for my next fleet project and keep it moving. So stop. Please...it's embarrassing. I have patience and you're making a ***** of yourself. A ***** with a neon sign. And it's sad."
EDIT: Man the W word is censored too? My bad forums.
However, the costs involved, I think, make the upgrade system into yet another time (and dilithium) sink and grind fest.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
i agree at 100%; this is simply what i want. i don't need shiny stuff which finally are used to do always the same thing again and again.
I'm a trekkie not a farmer/grinder; i want to be a Picard (with hair of course) :P
when i joined this game, i was really amazed, but now at lvl50, i'm just tired to do always the same things. I have no pleasure, this is not funny; and at lvl 60, this will be the same thing. Give us exploration; ok the old exploration wasn't great, but at least, we had something else to do. I played a lot of time a kind of tourist travelling on different planets, where i took screenshots with my boffs; damn' this was funny
And to do that no need of GOLD crappy stuff, no need of this crafting system. if they need money; they should remove the possibility to buy c-store stuff with dil (dil->zen) and add some nice small things at a reasonable price.
Aye...hear you and agree. Really no need for this complicated system. Want 18k dil out of us to go from mk 12 to 14? Put an upgrade vendor at appropriate shipyards, let us pay it and be done. Dont want us to take the leap right away in gear...make 13 usable at lv 55 and 14 at lvl 60. Problem fixed and we are all relatively happy I think. Lastly, it would show a respect for our time as we'd rather spend it playing the game than playing with sliders/projects.
Ty
On tribble someone upgraded a weapon from Mk 12 to 13 hitting finish now every time. Cost 480k dil. Without the finish now it cost only 38k. All I could think was " what a difference a day makes".
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080430043440/memoryalpha/en/images/8/86/One.jpg
thx
But that IS the game. I've forgotten about STO being about 'Star Trek'. It's an MMO and it's about grind. Who cares what the game is supposed to be about- it IS what it IS.
Grind
Grind
Grind
I became a much happier person when I quit being a trek purist and embraced what an MMO is.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I'll wait thank you.
480k dilithium. You can do that on tribble with the free dilithium. In game though? No way...unless you're one of those cats from Beta who has millions of dilithium....actually no, not even then. 480K dilithium across a whole build will wipe out even the fattest dilithium wallet. OH HELL NO. One is an absolute gamebreaker.
One is a Boarding Party that instantly destroys all Borg Ships.
One is so badass he makes Seven of Nine cry. (I loved that episode).
Nuanced Truth. Man to be a fly on the wall in those interactions between PWE and Cryptic.
I wonder what the game would be like if it were owned by EA or something....
Star Trek Online: Challenge everything... lol
Are you sure it's not "S-T-O: It's in the game."
Jeri Ryan: "STO It's in the game!"
Tim Russ: "STO It's in the game"
Star Trek Online: Delta Rising
Said Borticus today.
I will upgrade carefully, ensuring best value for Dilithium and time spent against outcome! Like a mini game in its-self...
As I play Eve, this I am used to and am quite good at anyway!
Upgrades have a + from me!, more so than those awful Fed Intelligence ships, which are just not good looking to me!
So THAT as they say is that.
Which brings me back to my original question will upgrading the Jem'Hadar ground set also unlock the uniform upgrade. My Magic 8 Ball...well in this 25th century it's a magic Q-ball, but regardless it says, "Things are looking up". EDIT: OR NOT...
So there will no longer be a jem hadar set via lobi? Or will the Mk XI jem hadar set not be upgradeable?
No longer upgraded via lobi. What will be the future method of getting the costume has not been revealed yet.
Yeah, lots of questions surrounding that set.
The Lobi set makes a huge jump to XII, will the Lobi and non-Lobi versions diverge somehow in quality?
I think the lobi Mk XII sets will be upgradeable along with the Mk XI but the Mk XII set/version will be no longer available via lobi.
The MACO and other sets in the old MK I rep system had a separate unlock, but there's no Breen or Dominion Rep.
It would be unwieldy through the crafting system so I'm at a loss. Perhaps they'll throw it into the C-store or worse the Lobi store alone, hopefully at a cheaper price. I doubt it. That would require them to keep two versions of the stats for one that will no longer be available.
No, he was answering the question of whether there would still be a lobi upgrade. The Lobi upgrade is being phased out and the Upgrade System is going to become the only way to go. So you'll be able to upgrade via the upgrade system the MK XI to MK XII and the MK XII so on and so forth like most other items.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Point being, current Mk XI (blue) and Mk XII (purple) sets will be upgradeable to mk XIV gold. For those who have spent lobi to get the mk XII set, you have a head start on getting to mk XIV gold. And the Mk XII set will no longer be available via the lobi consortium.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Ah, confirmation.
My character Tsin'xing
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Thank you for the info! (at least as of the latest build, bla bla :9)
Quite interesting.
My Engi can't get enough of Dominion gear, so I look forward to new toys to play with at more suitable tier. The space set is wonderful for a support/drain build compared to the plethora of pew-pew sets. Now if I could just get a Rom carrier to put it all in...
So for those of us that put time (or dilithium) into the R&D system would have an easier time upgrading gear - which makes sense as if you've invested the time to be lv20 at crafting shields, you would think you'd be able to apply these upgrade kits to those shields in a more efficient (ie cheaper and faster) manner.
That way those that don't want to put anything into the R&D system, get to put their time/dilithium effort into the upgrade system instead.. and those that put their time/dilithium into the R&D system don't need to put as much into the upgrade system. Cryptic still wins, but at least there's a path for those that would rather spend time instead of dilithium, by taking months to get R&D high enough to be beneficial... these people likely wouldn't have spent $ anyway, so no loss for Cryptic, and potentially less rage from players..
Again, just a thought.