The sad thing with this new expansion is (aside from the numerous things I've already said) that now that we know we will have to grind more, I find myself only logging in to refine dilithium or keep rep projects rolling. Thats it.
I generally run a few dailies so I'm always earning some fresh dilithium. But I have lots of dilithium remaining from the Crystalline Entity and a few solid battlezone runs.
But other than that yeah, stockpile marks and start projects. I'll have Level 14 in beams in 10 days no dilithium in, and generally continue across all four characters. In fact by this time next week all of my characters will be at max rep across the board.
In some ways that's an easy grind.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I generally run a few dailies so I'm always earning some fresh dilithium. But I have lots of dilithium remaining from the Crystalline Entity and a few solid battlezone runs.
But other than that yeah, stockpile marks and start projects. I'll have Level 14 in beams in 10 days no dilithium in, and generally continue across all four characters. In fact by this time next week all of my characters will be at max rep across the board.
In some ways that's an easy grind.
I've spent about 2 thirds of the dilithium from the Crstalline entity event on reputation gear (completely unaware of the potential need of dil to upgrade) so now I have like 60-70k dil across all 11 of my characters. Thats not even enough to upgrade 1 item all the way to mk XIV gold. If the dil and time costs are not reduced, I highly recommend that events like the crystalline entity be always running. That way, its easier to earn dilithium and it gives us more incentive to grind.
I've spent about 2 thirds of the dilithium from the Crstalline entity event on reputation gear (completely unaware of the potential need of dil to upgrade) so now I have like 60-70k dil across all 11 of my characters. Thats not even enough to upgrade 1 item all the way to mk XIV gold. If the dil and time costs are not reduced, I highly recommend that events like the crystalline entity be always running. That way, its easier to earn dilithium and it gives us more incentive to grind.
Not a bad idea really, though most people would be happy with a refining cap increase.
What does entity run? Every season or is it just twice a year?
I'm sitting on half a million dilithium on my main 250k on my Klingon and my fed alt and Romulan are at around 100K a piece.
Mind you a lot of that is for Starbase projects and an emergency zen cushion in case I actually want to buy something.
I tell you marks and dilithium out of the regular story missions would be an amazing boon for this game.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Not a bad idea really, though most people would be happy with a refining cap increase.
What does entity run? Every season or is it just twice a year?
I'm sitting on half a million dilithium on my main 250k on my Klingon and my fed alt and Romulan are at around 100K a piece.
Mind you a lot of that is for Starbase projects and an emergency zen cushion in case I actually want to buy something.
I tell you marks and dilithium out of the regular story missions would be an amazing boon for this game.
I dont know about the crystalline entity but the next event should be the mirror invasion one. I just wish that the dil refine cap would be increased to like 12-14k and that events (Crystalline, mirror event, etc etc) would be always running. That would be nice.
I dont know about the crystalline entity but the next event should be the mirror invasion one. I just wish that the dil refine cap would be increased to like 12-14k and that events (Crystalline, mirror event, etc etc) would be always running. That would be nice.
Honestly...I didn't like the Mirror Universe Event. I didn't play the old version except maybe once but it seemed to be quicker. Hopefully there will be some tweaks this time around.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Honestly...I didn't like the Mirror Universe Event. I didn't play the old version except maybe once but it seemed to be quicker. Hopefully there will be some tweaks this time around.
Neither did I, but in the long haul its better than hours of grinding every day.
Neither did I, but in the long haul its better than hours of grinding every day.
True true.
I just hope they get the Romulan Doff right this time. That's a nasty habit making only two when we have "three" factions.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Out of interest, has anyone tried upgrading a Secondary Deflector yet? Could add a lot of value to DSDs if those can be upgraded...
Anyway, I have really mixed feelings on the new system.
Good points:
- Brilliant for game diversity in that almost anything can be upgraded to top tier. That's a big win for people who like character items or unusual builds, instead of forcing everyone down the elite fleet / rep weapons. I would very much like a "relic" Mk XIV TOS Disruptor as a sidearm for most of my KDF alts as it looks *so* much better than the more modern weapons.
- Does not require players to revisit rep / fleet mark missions. I did have a horrible fear that uupgrading would require endless rep mission replay for more marks.
- Has the potential to entice spending on STO. This is a win since more spending = more game.
Neutral:
- Time gate costs. The dil cost for doing this quickly is prohibitive, but if you're prepared to be patient is far more reasonable. This can go one of two ways - the OCD maniac in me wants to be finished NAOW but this at least affords options for people on different time / cash budgets.
Bad:
- Not gameplay. Sorry Cryptic, pushing sliders and visiting vendors is not engaging gameplay.
- Death to PVP!. The gear gates for PVP were already prohibitive, but at least could be sidestepped if you were willing to marathon-grind rep missions. Now that's dead, and there are massive time / dil thresholds to produce a "top tier" geared ship; let alone one with multiple gear sets for flexibility. This doesn't matter so much in PVE but it will exponentially increase the gap between the haves and have-nots in PVP. In that context, this is the worst kind of power creep as all legacy gear is left in the dust. The T5U / T6 controversy is nothing by comparison.
I generally run a few dailies so I'm always earning some fresh dilithium. But I have lots of dilithium remaining from the Crystalline Entity and a few solid battlezone runs.
But other than that yeah, stockpile marks and start projects. I'll have Level 14 in beams in 10 days no dilithium in, and generally continue across all four characters. In fact by this time next week all of my characters will be at max rep across the board.
In some ways that's an easy grind.
I have a decent amount of dilithium too, however this do not change anything. We start grinding to buy some items until our toons are level 50 and can use decent items to start grinding mark for reputation. We also need to grind mark and dilithium to "craft" reputation items, and we grind other resources to build the starbase or just having flleet credit to buy fleet items. Just a few weeks ago the new crafting system is telling us "Ehi, there are better items now if you want them strat grinding more". Now "hei, now you can have mk xiii, mk ivx and epic items... you just have to grind more"
That is the way the game is evolving... we do not play for fun, we play for grinding and you grind playing the same content "ad infinitum".
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I just watched a youtube video of the new upgrade system. The guy had his captain on his ship in his engine room while showing it off and in the background the crew were seemingly trying to off themselves by repeatedly jumping off the walkways to get out of being used for forced labor in this new system. My hope is that when this goes live I can take my romulan char down to the engine room and watch tovan throw himself into the singularity core and be torn to little green bloody chunks, Ill make shure my breen is the one to clean up.
I have a decent amount of dilithium too, however this do not change anything. We start grinding to buy some items until our toons are level 50 and can use decent items to start grinding mark for reputation. We also need to grind mark and dilithium to "craft" reputation items, and we grind other resources to build the starbase or just having flleet credit to buy fleet items. Just a few weeks ago the new crafting system is telling us "Ehi, there are better items now if you want them strat grinding more". Now "hei, now you can have mk xiii, mk ivx and epic items... you just have to grind more"
That is the way the game is evolving... we do not play for fun, we play for grinding and you grind playing the same content "ad infinitum".
But that's not what I was talking about.
I was saying that the grind itself becomes a reason not to play while still playing. It's a quality of life convenience that we're able to set up things like rep and R&D research projects, but once I have a store of marks and dilithium, I don't really need to play for any great length of time.
And just for the sake of it, the upgrade system crafting cost needs to be reduced. You've gone beyond the point of what's going to make you a profit as most people aren't going to use it as much as you want, and certainly not as fast as you want. This isn't just a dilithium sink, it's a dilithium black hole.
I just watched a youtube video of the new upgrade system. The guy had his captain on his ship in his engine room while showing it off and in the background the crew were seemingly trying to off themselves by repeatedly jumping off the walkways to get out of being used for forced labor in this new system. My hope is that when this goes live I can take my romulan char down to the engine room and watch tovan throw himself into the singularity core and be torn to little green bloody chunks, Ill make shure my breen is the one to clean up.
You know that is a problem with the interiors that Cryptic doesn't want to develop. I want to place my characters where I want them. My Chief Engineer should be at the engineering station on the bridge and when I head to Engineering she should walk in with me and be the engineering duty officer contact. Our Boffs should be much more present and much more active.
Heck and those special DOFFs the ones that have quotes. If you have them they should show up in your ship spaces. We need an armory for our armory doffs etc.
I guess I've just played to much Mass Effect, but these seem to be simple expectations.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I have a decent amount of dilithium too, however this do not change anything. We start grinding to buy some items until our toons are level 50 and can use decent items to start grinding mark for reputation. We also need to grind mark and dilithium to "craft" reputation items, and we grind other resources to build the starbase or just having flleet credit to buy fleet items. Just a few weeks ago the new crafting system is telling us "Ehi, there are better items now if you want them strat grinding more". Now "hei, now you can have mk xiii, mk ivx and epic items... you just have to grind more"
That is the way the game is evolving... we do not play for fun, we play for grinding and you grind playing the same content "ad infinitum".
^QFT.
And I guess geko hates us mentioning that sooo much that a few months back, apparently, he was insulting the player-base.....
After reading the post, all 50+ pages on this thread and plenty of thought, I like the sound of this upgrade system. I am in no hurry, have loads of Dilithium as I don't spend it and don't need everything immediately, as the game is playable without bells and whistles anyway.
I will upgrade carefully, ensuring best value for Dilithium and time spent against outcome! Like a mini game in its-self...
As I play Eve, this I am used to and am quite good at anyway!
Upgrades have a + from me!, more so than those awful Fed Intelligence ships, which are just not good looking to me!
how will you ensure a best value for Dilithium when you are essentially gambling whit it? either you get lucky and get the upgrade or you get screwed and wasted your resources trying. in essence you either get value or you get nothing. how do you turn those odds in your favor without pay2win?
Out of interest, has anyone tried upgrading a Secondary Deflector yet? Could add a lot of value to DSDs if those can be upgraded...
Anyway, I have really mixed feelings on the new system.
Good points:
- Brilliant for game diversity in that almost anything can be upgraded to top tier. That's a big win for people who like character items or unusual builds, instead of forcing everyone down the elite fleet / rep weapons. I would very much like a "relic" Mk XIV TOS Disruptor as a sidearm for most of my KDF alts as it looks *so* much better than the more modern weapons.
- Does not require players to revisit rep / fleet mark missions. I did have a horrible fear that uupgrading would require endless rep mission replay for more marks.
- Has the potential to entice spending on STO. This is a win since more spending = more game.
Neutral:
- Time gate costs. The dil cost for doing this quickly is prohibitive, but if you're prepared to be patient is far more reasonable. This can go one of two ways - the OCD maniac in me wants to be finished NAOW but this at least affords options for people on different time / cash budgets.
Bad:
- Not gameplay. Sorry Cryptic, pushing sliders and visiting vendors is not engaging gameplay.
- Death to PVP!. The gear gates for PVP were already prohibitive, but at least could be sidestepped if you were willing to marathon-grind rep missions. Now that's dead, and there are massive time / dil thresholds to produce a "top tier" geared ship; let alone one with multiple gear sets for flexibility. This doesn't matter so much in PVE but it will exponentially increase the gap between the haves and have-nots in PVP. In that context, this is the worst kind of power creep as all legacy gear is left in the dust. The T5U / T6 controversy is nothing by comparison.
I read this as pay2win "- Has the potential to entice spending on STO. This is a win since more spending = more game."
I understand the purpose cryptic selling stuff but not this way. this defiantly is bad category because pay2win games are not fun, not ever.
don't sell me increased chance on success. I could understand a speedup for ZEN or shorter upgrade times for gold members those would entice spending to but do so without messing up the game.
anther one for the bad side: completely random. you either get lucky and get what you want or you get totally nothing after flushing lots of resources though the toilet.
otherwise i do agree whit you. though PvP is a can of worms I am not opening.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
how will you ensure a best value for Dilithium when you are essentially gambling whit it? either you get lucky and get the upgrade or you get screwed and wasted your resources trying. in essence you either get value or you get nothing. how do you turn those odds in your favor without pay2win?
Mk upgrades are guaranteed. rarity upgrades are not. My testing shows that upping to mk14 is actually reasonable. Trying for Gold? now THAT is expensive.
Mk upgrades are guaranteed. rarity upgrades are not. My testing shows that upping to mk14 is actually reasonable. Trying for Gold? now THAT is expensive.
So in other words, when I upgrade my mk XII borg deflector. Im guaranteed that it be mk XIII but it could end up being Mk XIII green which is still a downgrade.
So in other words, when I upgrade my mk XII borg deflector. Im guaranteed that it be mki XIII but it could end up being Mk XIII green which is still a downgrade.
NO!!!!!!
Rarity CANNOT go down. It's a random chance of an upgrade.
Rarity CANNOT go down. It's a random chance of an upgrade.
Ah! So IF it does upgrade, I'm guaranteed a mk XIII version of that same item with, at minimum, the same quality? That's still a gamble. Especially since you are spending dil every time. Ah! here we go. The cheapest amount of dil it will cost to get a mk XII item to mk XIV of the same quality will cost 18,275 dilithium if you decide to wait (36h) for just ONE ITEM. Tell me how this isn't bad?
Ah! So IF it does upgrade, I'm guaranteed a mk XIII version of that same item with, at minimum, the same quality?
I told you that pages ago!
That's still a gamble. Especially since you are spending dil every time. Ah! here we go. The cheapest amount of dil it will cost to get a mk XII item to mk XIV of the same quality will cost 18,275 dilithium if you decide to wait (36h) for just ONE ITEM. Tell me how this isn't bad?
It is a gamble as far consistently spending with the possibility of failing. They've tried to mitigate it by having the research points continue to accumulate each time. Every time you attempt the upgrade your crit chance goes up until eventually it reaches 100% of getting the rarity upgrade.
It's still too expensive though.
Have they said anymore about the availability of the accelerators?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
It is a gamble as far consistently spending with the possibility of failing. They've tried to mitigate it by having the research points continue to accumulate each time. Every time you attempt the upgrade your crit chance goes up until eventually it reaches 100% of getting the rarity upgrade.
It's still too expensive though.
Have they said anymore about the availability of the accelerators?
I know, but I wasn't aware of the "if" part. I'd assume the accelerators would be like the R&D catalysts in that there is a small chance of getting them as drops. I'd also assume that their will be tech packs available through the cstore that provide tech kit and accelerators. That, or, accelerators will be added as a drop possibility to lockboxes.
Here's my 2 cents. The only dil sink in this upgrade system should be, as mrhawkman put it, in obtaining gold quality items. I don't mind having to upgrade to mk XIII at lvl 55 and then upgrade again at lvl 60 to mk XIV. But when I pop my kit and item in, I expect to get a mk XIII version at same quality (for lvl 55) and a mk XIV version at same quality at lvl 60. Not a chance of upgrading, a guarantee. And then I would have the option of attempting to upgrade to gold quality OR upgrade my mk XI blue mission rewards (lobi items, consoles, etc etc). This way, the dil sink is less mandatory and more optional. Plus, doing it this way will reduce power creep (I think) and for those who HAVE to have the best stuff, they will be willing to sink the dilithium for gold quality items which means grinding for them and more $$$ for Cryptic/PWE. But making us all do this is just ridiculous.
To elaborate, this is what I want to have happen on the drop of X2. I log on and upgrade my ship to T5-U (if not done so already). I then have the option to upgrade my mk XI blue/purple gear to mk XII. I then play the new story missions etc etc till I hit lvl 55. Then I can have the option to upgrade my gear to Mk XIII at the cost of like 2k (max) dil per item with the guarantee that I get a mk XIII equivalent at the same quality. I can then do this for all my items. (yes there will still be a waiting period on all the items but, just as it is now, you can insta-upgrade using dil). I then continue with new content to get to level 60. (This will not affect the new mastery tree). I then will have the option to upgrade my mk XIII gear to mk XIV just the same as before when I upgraded to mk XIII. And then I'm done. And If I want to I can attempt to get my gear to epic, or gold, quality (dil sink). Anyone else like this idea? If not, please tell me why. thanks
Mk upgrades are guaranteed. rarity upgrades are not. My testing shows that upping to mk14 is actually reasonable. Trying for Gold? now THAT is expensive.
now that puts me somewhat at ease but not quite...
were all MMO players here that means that by definition were all min-maxers. not stereotypical ones but we all want to have a sense of progression. at some point you will cross a threshold where progression can only be gained by min-maxing.
in this scenario you do your regular upgrades to mk14 and then what? bumping up two mk's is obvious then you have to start going for the rarities to further improve but those are far from a sure thing. there is a good chance you will get the consolation price, a boost to your chances next time around. when you want that upgrade from purple to ultra-violet you are gonna feel bad when you get the consolation price instead. you feel like you just wasted your resources and gained nothing. all you get is "better luck next time" and noting to really show for it.
this is a game people play this for their amusement. they wanna feel good about what they do in game. right now just as whit the crafting system cryptic is setting up a situation where you are going to feel bad about not getting what you wanted.
developing a game (any game) is about creating a player experience. you want that experience to be a good one. you want people to feel positive about playing your game because when the do they will play it more often. right now whit the crafting system and this upgrade system cryptic will be creating a bad experience and those will reflect badly on STO as a whole.
now I am not predicting doom and gloom here there is still plenty to enjoy in STO but for all the great things both these systems can do players will not use them.
they will love what the systems can potentially do but hate the mechanics behind them that's a given.
for me the sad part is that I can see the awesome potential in both these systems. they can be something loved by the player base. praised by (game) critics as one of the strengths of STO. a reason for new players to get into this game. the whole frame work is there. actually cryptic is 95% of the way there already. they allowed their greed to 100% mess it all up. It's so frustrating.
here is what they need to change:
give us players guarantied rarities on the items we craft. it's okay if higher rarities cost more.
take all Dilithium costs out of crafting. (you don't take the effort to build it yourself and then still pay for it)
make upgrades for rarities guarantied even if it's 5-10 times more expensive than upgrading for mk.
I understand cryptic needs to make money by micro-transactions here is what they can do:
give gold members shorter project times to sell more subscriptions.
make the instant finish a ZEN purchase rather then a dilithium one.
convert the catalysts to instant finish tokens and award one (or more) to gold members each month.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
now that puts me somewhat at ease but not quite...
were all MMO players here that means that by definition were all min-maxers. not stereotypical ones but we all want to have a sense of progression. at some point you will cross a threshold where progression can only be gained by min-maxing.
in this scenario you do your regular upgrades to mk14 and then what? bumping up two mk's is obvious then you have to start going for the rarities to further improve but those are far from a sure thing. there is a good chance you will get the consolation price, a boost to your chances next time around. when you want that upgrade from purple to ultra-violet you are gonna feel bad when you get the consolation price instead. you feel like you just wasted your resources and gained nothing. all you get is "better luck next time" and noting to really show for it.
this is a game people play this for their amusement. they wanna feel good about what they do in game. right now just as whit the crafting system cryptic is setting up a situation where you are going to feel bad about not getting what you wanted.
developing a game (any game) is about creating a player experience. you want that experience to be a good one. you want people to feel positive about playing your game because when the do they will play it more often. right now whit the crafting system and this upgrade system cryptic will be creating a bad experience and those will reflect badly on STO as a whole.
now I am not predicting doom and gloom here there is still plenty to enjoy in STO but for all the great things both these systems can do players will not use them.
they will love what the systems can potentially do but hate the mechanics behind them that's a given.
for me the sad part is that I can see the awesome potential in both these systems. they can be something loved by the player base. praised by (game) critics as one of the strengths of STO. a reason for new players to get into this game. the whole frame work is there. actually cryptic is 95% of the way there already. they allowed their greed to 100% mess it all up. It's so frustrating.
here is what they need to change:
give us players guarantied rarities on the items we craft. it's okay if higher rarities cost more.
take all Dilithium costs out of crafting. (you don't take the effort to build it yourself and then still pay for it)
make upgrades for rarities guarantied even if it's 5-10 times more expensive than upgrading for mk.
I understand cryptic needs to make money by micro-transactions here is what they can do:
give gold members shorter project times to sell more subscriptions.
make the instant finish a ZEN purchase rather then a dilithium one.
convert the catalysts to instant finish tokens and award one (or more) to gold members each month.
So let's say I decide to try and upgrade one of my pvp weapons from Mk 12 acc3 and it comes out the other side as acc3 dmg1 now I need to recycle it and start again. I don't mind putting recourses and dilli into this RNG you know risk and reward but to just trash my gear as well really hurts.
So let's say I decide to try and upgrade one of my pvp weapons from Mk 12 acc3 and it comes out the other side as acc3 dmg1 now I need to recycle it and start again. I don't mind putting recourses and dilli into this RNG you know risk and reward but to just trash my gear as well really hurts.
Ok, this is the point I can't take min-maxing seriously.
The weapon loses nothing. Nada. Zip. Dim.
It gains a bonus. Admittedly random for some weapons, apparently specific for some named ones.
According to you, if you don't like the additional bonus, the weapon is now junk.
Even if, before gaining a bonus, it was your go-to weapon in PvP.
Ok, this is the point I can't take min-maxing seriously.
The weapon loses nothing. Nada. Zip. Dim.
It gains a bonus. Admittedly random for some weapons, apparently specific for some named ones.
According to you, if you don't like the additional bonus, the weapon is now junk.
Even if, before gaining a bonus, it was your go-to weapon in PvP.
Some builds are based around crit procs, some builds are based around maximum CritD, etc.
Not "junk" in the ultimate sense, no. But putting RNG into a system in a way that the "improvement" ends up being more of a side-grade and in a way that prevents you from EVER getting that particular item to the ideal for your build, requiring you to start the process over again losing all of the multiple currencies involved?
now that puts me somewhat at ease but not quite...
were all MMO players here that means that by definition were all min-maxers. not stereotypical ones but we all want to have a sense of progression. at some point you will cross a threshold where progression can only be gained by min-maxing.
No. I'm a gamer and a Trekkie. I play this game solely because it is Star Trek. It is my first, last, and only MMO.
But I don't even like the idea of min-maxing. It violates my sense that if you don't make a ship at least passable as an all arounder with some strengths then it gets killed. I know that's not how it actually works in practice, but it can't be denied that min-maxing completely unbalances the system. I see it as a legitimate exploit. So I am in no way a min-maxer. Being forced to be would force me to quit the game. My feeling is basically that hyper specific specialization should literally force you to be SUPER good at only that one thing.
That said it isn't the fault of the min maxers either. They are the player and the mathematician who have worked out the shortest distance from point A to point B. It is the developers fault for not closing the loopholes and not properly balancing abilities and skills so they are all equally valuable over time.
But again, that's not me.
in this scenario you do your regular upgrades to mk14 and then what? bumping up two mk's is obvious then you have to start going for the rarities to further improve but those are far from a sure thing. there is a good chance you will get the consolation price, a boost to your chances next time around. when you want that upgrade from purple to ultra-violet you are gonna feel bad when you get the consolation price instead. you feel like you just wasted your resources and gained nothing. all you get is "better luck next time" and noting to really show for it.
Now you see I approach that from the opposite end.
You see it as a gambling system.
Each time you attempt to upgrade an item the research points stack. So each time you run the project the critical chance or more accurately the success rate goes up. Eventually it will reach 100% and be impossible to fail.
So from my perspective it is a level up system that has a random chance to actually jump to the next level.
this is a game people play this for their amusement. they wanna feel good about what they do in game. right now just as whit the crafting system cryptic is setting up a situation where you are going to feel bad about not getting what you wanted.
developing a game (any game) is about creating a player experience. you want that experience to be a good one. you want people to feel positive about playing your game because when the do they will play it more often. right now whit the crafting system and this upgrade system cryptic will be creating a bad experience and those will reflect badly on STO as a whole.
now I am not predicting doom and gloom here there is still plenty to enjoy in STO but for all the great things both these systems can do players will not use them.
they will love what the systems can potentially do but hate the mechanics behind them that's a given.
for me the sad part is that I can see the awesome potential in both these systems. they can be something loved by the player base. praised by (game) critics as one of the strengths of STO. a reason for new players to get into this game. the whole frame work is there. actually cryptic is 95% of the way there already. they allowed their greed to 100% mess it all up. It's so frustrating.
here is what they need to change:
give us players guarantied rarities on the items we craft. it's okay if higher rarities cost more.
take all Dilithium costs out of crafting. (you don't take the effort to build it yourself and then still pay for it)
make upgrades for rarities guarantied even if it's 5-10 times more expensive than upgrading for mk.
I understand cryptic needs to make money by micro-transactions here is what they can do:
give gold members shorter project times to sell more subscriptions.
make the instant finish a ZEN purchase rather then a dilithium one.
convert the catalysts to instant finish tokens and award one (or more) to gold members each month.
Arguably the zen purchase idea is worse to those who don't have the real world money or the real dilithium as they would have to purchase that zen on the dilithium exchange which can be pretty brutal.
The rest is quite good, though I think you'll need signed orders from God (or your acceptable local deity) in order to get them to abandon dilithium as their primary currency.
I do like the ideas of accelerators be a Gold Reward as subscribers badly need good incentives.
I think they should've waited to...or rather prioritized the implementation of whatever the mod selection system they are going to add to the Crafting system and then integrated it into the upgrade system. That way people wouldn't be having these panic attacks and rage trashing of items upon getting a damage mod.
I would've thought that Season 9.5 would've taught them that there is nothing that STO players hate more than random results.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
I generally run a few dailies so I'm always earning some fresh dilithium. But I have lots of dilithium remaining from the Crystalline Entity and a few solid battlezone runs.
But other than that yeah, stockpile marks and start projects. I'll have Level 14 in beams in 10 days no dilithium in, and generally continue across all four characters. In fact by this time next week all of my characters will be at max rep across the board.
In some ways that's an easy grind.
I've spent about 2 thirds of the dilithium from the Crstalline entity event on reputation gear (completely unaware of the potential need of dil to upgrade) so now I have like 60-70k dil across all 11 of my characters. Thats not even enough to upgrade 1 item all the way to mk XIV gold. If the dil and time costs are not reduced, I highly recommend that events like the crystalline entity be always running. That way, its easier to earn dilithium and it gives us more incentive to grind.
Not a bad idea really, though most people would be happy with a refining cap increase.
What does entity run? Every season or is it just twice a year?
I'm sitting on half a million dilithium on my main 250k on my Klingon and my fed alt and Romulan are at around 100K a piece.
Mind you a lot of that is for Starbase projects and an emergency zen cushion in case I actually want to buy something.
I tell you marks and dilithium out of the regular story missions would be an amazing boon for this game.
I dont know about the crystalline entity but the next event should be the mirror invasion one. I just wish that the dil refine cap would be increased to like 12-14k and that events (Crystalline, mirror event, etc etc) would be always running. That would be nice.
Honestly...I didn't like the Mirror Universe Event. I didn't play the old version except maybe once but it seemed to be quicker. Hopefully there will be some tweaks this time around.
Neither did I, but in the long haul its better than hours of grinding every day.
True true.
I just hope they get the Romulan Doff right this time. That's a nasty habit making only two when we have "three" factions.
Yeah, just like the past "giveaway". Romulans didn't get anything.
Anyway, I have really mixed feelings on the new system.
Good points:
- Brilliant for game diversity in that almost anything can be upgraded to top tier. That's a big win for people who like character items or unusual builds, instead of forcing everyone down the elite fleet / rep weapons. I would very much like a "relic" Mk XIV TOS Disruptor as a sidearm for most of my KDF alts as it looks *so* much better than the more modern weapons.
- Does not require players to revisit rep / fleet mark missions. I did have a horrible fear that uupgrading would require endless rep mission replay for more marks.
- Has the potential to entice spending on STO. This is a win since more spending = more game.
Neutral:
- Time gate costs. The dil cost for doing this quickly is prohibitive, but if you're prepared to be patient is far more reasonable. This can go one of two ways - the OCD maniac in me wants to be finished NAOW but this at least affords options for people on different time / cash budgets.
Bad:
- Not gameplay. Sorry Cryptic, pushing sliders and visiting vendors is not engaging gameplay.
- Death to PVP!. The gear gates for PVP were already prohibitive, but at least could be sidestepped if you were willing to marathon-grind rep missions. Now that's dead, and there are massive time / dil thresholds to produce a "top tier" geared ship; let alone one with multiple gear sets for flexibility. This doesn't matter so much in PVE but it will exponentially increase the gap between the haves and have-nots in PVP. In that context, this is the worst kind of power creep as all legacy gear is left in the dust. The T5U / T6 controversy is nothing by comparison.
I have a decent amount of dilithium too, however this do not change anything. We start grinding to buy some items until our toons are level 50 and can use decent items to start grinding mark for reputation. We also need to grind mark and dilithium to "craft" reputation items, and we grind other resources to build the starbase or just having flleet credit to buy fleet items. Just a few weeks ago the new crafting system is telling us "Ehi, there are better items now if you want them strat grinding more". Now "hei, now you can have mk xiii, mk ivx and epic items... you just have to grind more"
That is the way the game is evolving... we do not play for fun, we play for grinding and you grind playing the same content "ad infinitum".
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
indeed. and this is really tiring, boring, annoying. In fact we are not STO players, but STO grinders
if only Neelix could grind for me, at least he would be useful lol
this morning Plekton particle package = 1mil ec. good luck to all the grinders
I was saying that the grind itself becomes a reason not to play while still playing. It's a quality of life convenience that we're able to set up things like rep and R&D research projects, but once I have a store of marks and dilithium, I don't really need to play for any great length of time.
And just for the sake of it, the upgrade system crafting cost needs to be reduced. You've gone beyond the point of what's going to make you a profit as most people aren't going to use it as much as you want, and certainly not as fast as you want. This isn't just a dilithium sink, it's a dilithium black hole.
You know that is a problem with the interiors that Cryptic doesn't want to develop. I want to place my characters where I want them. My Chief Engineer should be at the engineering station on the bridge and when I head to Engineering she should walk in with me and be the engineering duty officer contact. Our Boffs should be much more present and much more active.
Heck and those special DOFFs the ones that have quotes. If you have them they should show up in your ship spaces. We need an armory for our armory doffs etc.
I guess I've just played to much Mass Effect, but these seem to be simple expectations.
^QFT.
And I guess geko hates us mentioning that sooo much that a few months back, apparently, he was insulting the player-base.....
how will you ensure a best value for Dilithium when you are essentially gambling whit it? either you get lucky and get the upgrade or you get screwed and wasted your resources trying. in essence you either get value or you get nothing. how do you turn those odds in your favor without pay2win?
I read this as pay2win "- Has the potential to entice spending on STO. This is a win since more spending = more game."
I understand the purpose cryptic selling stuff but not this way. this defiantly is bad category because pay2win games are not fun, not ever.
don't sell me increased chance on success. I could understand a speedup for ZEN or shorter upgrade times for gold members those would entice spending to but do so without messing up the game.
anther one for the bad side: completely random. you either get lucky and get what you want or you get totally nothing after flushing lots of resources though the toilet.
otherwise i do agree whit you. though PvP is a can of worms I am not opening.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
My character Tsin'xing
So in other words, when I upgrade my mk XII borg deflector. Im guaranteed that it be mk XIII but it could end up being Mk XIII green which is still a downgrade.
Rarity CANNOT go down. It's a random chance of an upgrade.
My character Tsin'xing
Ah! So IF it does upgrade, I'm guaranteed a mk XIII version of that same item with, at minimum, the same quality? That's still a gamble. Especially since you are spending dil every time. Ah! here we go. The cheapest amount of dil it will cost to get a mk XII item to mk XIV of the same quality will cost 18,275 dilithium if you decide to wait (36h) for just ONE ITEM. Tell me how this isn't bad?
It is a gamble as far consistently spending with the possibility of failing. They've tried to mitigate it by having the research points continue to accumulate each time. Every time you attempt the upgrade your crit chance goes up until eventually it reaches 100% of getting the rarity upgrade.
It's still too expensive though.
Have they said anymore about the availability of the accelerators?
I know, but I wasn't aware of the "if" part. I'd assume the accelerators would be like the R&D catalysts in that there is a small chance of getting them as drops. I'd also assume that their will be tech packs available through the cstore that provide tech kit and accelerators. That, or, accelerators will be added as a drop possibility to lockboxes.
Here's my 2 cents. The only dil sink in this upgrade system should be, as mrhawkman put it, in obtaining gold quality items. I don't mind having to upgrade to mk XIII at lvl 55 and then upgrade again at lvl 60 to mk XIV. But when I pop my kit and item in, I expect to get a mk XIII version at same quality (for lvl 55) and a mk XIV version at same quality at lvl 60. Not a chance of upgrading, a guarantee. And then I would have the option of attempting to upgrade to gold quality OR upgrade my mk XI blue mission rewards (lobi items, consoles, etc etc). This way, the dil sink is less mandatory and more optional. Plus, doing it this way will reduce power creep (I think) and for those who HAVE to have the best stuff, they will be willing to sink the dilithium for gold quality items which means grinding for them and more $$$ for Cryptic/PWE. But making us all do this is just ridiculous.
To elaborate, this is what I want to have happen on the drop of X2. I log on and upgrade my ship to T5-U (if not done so already). I then have the option to upgrade my mk XI blue/purple gear to mk XII. I then play the new story missions etc etc till I hit lvl 55. Then I can have the option to upgrade my gear to Mk XIII at the cost of like 2k (max) dil per item with the guarantee that I get a mk XIII equivalent at the same quality. I can then do this for all my items. (yes there will still be a waiting period on all the items but, just as it is now, you can insta-upgrade using dil). I then continue with new content to get to level 60. (This will not affect the new mastery tree). I then will have the option to upgrade my mk XIII gear to mk XIV just the same as before when I upgraded to mk XIII. And then I'm done. And If I want to I can attempt to get my gear to epic, or gold, quality (dil sink). Anyone else like this idea? If not, please tell me why. thanks
now that puts me somewhat at ease but not quite...
were all MMO players here that means that by definition were all min-maxers. not stereotypical ones but we all want to have a sense of progression. at some point you will cross a threshold where progression can only be gained by min-maxing.
in this scenario you do your regular upgrades to mk14 and then what? bumping up two mk's is obvious then you have to start going for the rarities to further improve but those are far from a sure thing. there is a good chance you will get the consolation price, a boost to your chances next time around. when you want that upgrade from purple to ultra-violet you are gonna feel bad when you get the consolation price instead. you feel like you just wasted your resources and gained nothing. all you get is "better luck next time" and noting to really show for it.
this is a game people play this for their amusement. they wanna feel good about what they do in game. right now just as whit the crafting system cryptic is setting up a situation where you are going to feel bad about not getting what you wanted.
developing a game (any game) is about creating a player experience. you want that experience to be a good one. you want people to feel positive about playing your game because when the do they will play it more often. right now whit the crafting system and this upgrade system cryptic will be creating a bad experience and those will reflect badly on STO as a whole.
now I am not predicting doom and gloom here there is still plenty to enjoy in STO but for all the great things both these systems can do players will not use them.
they will love what the systems can potentially do but hate the mechanics behind them that's a given.
for me the sad part is that I can see the awesome potential in both these systems. they can be something loved by the player base. praised by (game) critics as one of the strengths of STO. a reason for new players to get into this game. the whole frame work is there. actually cryptic is 95% of the way there already. they allowed their greed to 100% mess it all up. It's so frustrating.
here is what they need to change:
- give us players guarantied rarities on the items we craft. it's okay if higher rarities cost more.
- take all Dilithium costs out of crafting. (you don't take the effort to build it yourself and then still pay for it)
- make upgrades for rarities guarantied even if it's 5-10 times more expensive than upgrading for mk.
I understand cryptic needs to make money by micro-transactions here is what they can do:First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1225941 Does that suite your fancy?
In order to upgrade, does the item need to be unequipped from the ship, or can it stay in the slot, in-use, as-is, while it upgrades?
youve got to unequip
Thank you Sensei Hamster!
*Edit: Sorry, had to do it.
Ok, this is the point I can't take min-maxing seriously.
The weapon loses nothing. Nada. Zip. Dim.
It gains a bonus. Admittedly random for some weapons, apparently specific for some named ones.
According to you, if you don't like the additional bonus, the weapon is now junk.
Even if, before gaining a bonus, it was your go-to weapon in PvP.
Some builds are based around crit procs, some builds are based around maximum CritD, etc.
Not "junk" in the ultimate sense, no. But putting RNG into a system in a way that the "improvement" ends up being more of a side-grade and in a way that prevents you from EVER getting that particular item to the ideal for your build, requiring you to start the process over again losing all of the multiple currencies involved?
That just seems coldly calculated and crass.
No. I'm a gamer and a Trekkie. I play this game solely because it is Star Trek. It is my first, last, and only MMO.
But I don't even like the idea of min-maxing. It violates my sense that if you don't make a ship at least passable as an all arounder with some strengths then it gets killed. I know that's not how it actually works in practice, but it can't be denied that min-maxing completely unbalances the system. I see it as a legitimate exploit. So I am in no way a min-maxer. Being forced to be would force me to quit the game. My feeling is basically that hyper specific specialization should literally force you to be SUPER good at only that one thing.
That said it isn't the fault of the min maxers either. They are the player and the mathematician who have worked out the shortest distance from point A to point B. It is the developers fault for not closing the loopholes and not properly balancing abilities and skills so they are all equally valuable over time.
But again, that's not me.
Now you see I approach that from the opposite end.
You see it as a gambling system.
Each time you attempt to upgrade an item the research points stack. So each time you run the project the critical chance or more accurately the success rate goes up. Eventually it will reach 100% and be impossible to fail.
So from my perspective it is a level up system that has a random chance to actually jump to the next level.
Arguably the zen purchase idea is worse to those who don't have the real world money or the real dilithium as they would have to purchase that zen on the dilithium exchange which can be pretty brutal.
The rest is quite good, though I think you'll need signed orders from God (or your acceptable local deity) in order to get them to abandon dilithium as their primary currency.
I do like the ideas of accelerators be a Gold Reward as subscribers badly need good incentives.
I think they should've waited to...or rather prioritized the implementation of whatever the mod selection system they are going to add to the Crafting system and then integrated it into the upgrade system. That way people wouldn't be having these panic attacks and rage trashing of items upon getting a damage mod.
I would've thought that Season 9.5 would've taught them that there is nothing that STO players hate more than random results.