Would kinda wanna play this but really can't deal with the rest of the garbage this game have become.. and effort in finding old weapons is going to be troubblesome I guess, even if you did save mk11 weapons. + all those stupid reputation systems still can't be disabled i guess.
Yes they can be disabled, and they are no longer a problem since you can only have 4 active.
Would kinda wanna play this but really can't deal with the rest of the garbage this game have become.. and effort in finding old weapons is going to be troubblesome I guess, even if you did save mk11 weapons. + all those stupid reputation systems still can't be disabled i guess.
It's easy finding the MK X/XI. I think I spent 400k for 2 toons. That stuff drops still.
Traits/rep aren't like they were. In the ship tab "U" you can move them around freely now vs respec.
Hopefully VPVP survives and picks up. It would be a nice distraction.
Hope you are well. Been too long since we've done any pew.
With the nerf to how fast you can earn xp, I'm even more inclined to keep specs banned. I'm still open to discussion on this.
At the rate people are leaving, we wont need to worry about spec points soon...
I took T'Rebek to Ker'rat earlier - quiet as a quiet thing at a rock concert. I was flying around with no shields equipped just to see if anyone was around; I got bored and exited. Never was attacked...
The ground section seems to be getting along nicely.
After getting my main character to level 52 today, a character that has a JHAS and Mk 12 shinies, I can reiterate my complete and utter hatred for leveling/spec grinding. I cannot in any spirit of friendship subject someone to such torture to simply be competitive in VPvP.
The ground section seems to be getting along nicely.
After getting my main character to level 52 today, a character that has a JHAS and Mk 12 shinies, I can reiterate my complete and utter hatred for leveling/spec grinding. I cannot in any spirit of friendship subject someone to such torture to simply be competitive in VPvP.
Well, everyone is in the same boat - Im back on Tribble to do any level 50+ PvE now, all my 50s are at 50.9999 worth of XP, if I do anything they will level up...
Still, at least I can now spend a bit more time on my Reman and Gorn.
Well, everyone is in the same boat - Im back on Tribble to do any level 50+ PvE now, all my 50s are at 50.9999 worth of XP, if I do anything they will level up...
Still, at least I can now spend a bit more time on my Reman and Gorn.
If those are VPvP alts, you can level them up without spending spec points.
If those are VPvP alts, you can level them up without spending spec points.
The Reman and Gorn will likely be VPvP only, but the others listed in my sig I would like at least PvE spec, and T'Rebek and K'Ahlayr Normal PvP spec...
It was part of the attraction of VPvP at first though, you could have your mains VPvP capable and Normal PvP capable, now that we need to have separate NPvP and VPvP chars it takes the shine of the entire system off...
I suspect that most of the folks who have a few Lvl 50 alts did so back in the day when the game was fun, there were lots of different and varied ways to level up; and before everything got so expensive.
Now all you've got, to get your fresh, VPvP-compliant toon up to Lvl 50 is ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission... what's this a purely space mission... oh it's not in my ship, of course, but in an effing shuttle:mad:... ground mission after ground mission, after ground mission after....
[Or there's DOFFing, but that's expensive if you want to do that well and quickly.]
I came to HATE ground missions, and now pretty much refuse to do them. I've had the final (ground, natch...) mission for the Romulan rep on my screen for weeks, maybe months, and I just don't want to do it. Conversely, while it's been there on my screen, I've been levelling up to 61 by merrily doing what I do enjoy: flying around and melting fools, all in my ship, going 'Wheee!'. It's not been a grind at all, but just what I enjoy doing and what I'd log in for even if there was nothing beyond Lvl 50 - exactly as I used to but now I get extra, free stuff for doing so. Nothing in this levelling process has even cost me a scrap of Dil or EC - it just happened in the background.
And it seems that the XP nerf is also being applied to everything now, from the fresh faced Ensign onwards. Now, I quit for a couple of weeks in disgust at 9.5, and for a couple of weeks (including uninstalling) in the lead up to DR. There will doubtless come a time when I leave forever, the way things are going. But for now, I'm staggered that you consider creating a fresh char and levelling him up to 50 is less of a grind than what you can choose to do post Lvl 50.
You've read plenty of posts about how these changes are the death of alts; and they are because it's now so unrewarding (read: soul-destroying) and expensive to make alts. It's all about focusing your resources upon a scant few chars now. I mention this because I've been silently following VPvP since the first post, and heartily cheering for you guys. I had my beloved main in her VPvP ship, respeced with VPvP gear bought that day, doing some testing of my build before asking for an invite. Though I didn't particularly want to, I needed to fly about to a load of systems to get Diplomacy DOFF missions set up - now that's a grind!
Then there were server problems (later turned out to be the day they had the roll-back), and I just thought 'eff this - sick of it, why am I keeping on trying to log in to do something I don't really want to anyway... that I'm also paying handsomely for, with a company I hate and despise?' and uninstalled.
I came back for the new ships, bought the DR pack mostly with Zen I had already, and haven't spent anything since, nor do I want to unless things seriously change with the company's attitudes. This means that alts are out now, and I need to focus purely on my main. I'd hoped that she could be both my VPvP char and the one who discovered what all of the new stuff was about. I'd racked up a few Specialisation points in no time flat, while doing nothing but preliminary testing of my new Eclipse [what a ship!]. I won't go into why I decided to spend them, knowing that this effectively then meant no VPvP for me.
Your decision will only keep getting harder for you as they keep TRIBBLE everybody, including new toons. Obviously do what you want, but I'd suggest looking at the handicap system I mentioned before; where anybody can be a PvPer, regardless of what the company continues to do, and however much it tries to perpetually pull the rug out from under your feet.
Shouldn't be too hard for you guys to work out a rough exchange rate between Intel Space tiers and gear quality. You have no Specialisation points spent, so can have the default VPvP gear. I have 9 spent in Space Intel, so all of my weapons have to go down a Mk. Test, rebalance (might be that a weapon goes down in Mk for every two points spent, or three, whatever) until you find the correct exchange rate.
Then this is all in your hands, and you don't have to wring your hands over rock and a hard place decisions all the time.
I have spent one point into Intel but the Pilot thingy I can switch away. Is MES allowed? If Im allowed to come with one Intel point spent then invite me my handle is nippeli222.
The prices on VPvP class equipment has gone crazy up.
I have thought about the fact that my main FED has one point into Intel and I have come to solution that I could get a lower mark or quality neutronium. The Intel thingy I have is Hide weakneses 1. But I think You could allow atleast 1 Intel thingy. I have also noticed its pretty quiet on the channel at the Eu time when people play.
Edit: As captain specialisation is not allowed could someone then gift me a Qin raptor because I dont have the ec for it if I want equipment. I cant use my main fed that would have plenty of allowed ships because I have one Intel spec.
Yeah, prices have - The various exchange manipulators caught on to VPvP, and hiked prices as they knew PvPers would pay the extra. My Cost estimate needs revising again...
Its also quiet because masses of people have either quit or reduced playtime since DR. VPvP not allowing Spec stuff hasn't helped either...
Give it a chance dude these things grow ever so slowly. You have to understand what you are dealing with here. Craptic/pwe has choked the life and fun out of pvp in this game for years straight and you are simply witnessing the hardest brunt of that right now. Hang in the I am leveling a vpvp space pvp toon. At least one more daily steady player will be around soon.
Give it a chance dude these things grow ever so slowly. You have to understand what you are dealing with here. Craptic/pwe has choked the life and fun out of pvp in this game for years straight and you are simply witnessing the hardest brunt of that right now. Hang in the I am leveling a vpvp space pvp toon. At least one more daily steady player will be around soon.
I could level up my Fed alt that is lvl 10 but its a so anoying grind of ground s**t just so that I can VPvP. Not rly worth it.
I could level up my Fed alt that is lvl 10 but its a so anoying grind of ground s**t just so that I can VPvP. Not rly worth it.
Don't be afraid of ground pve LOL. I do it without my boffs geared at all LOL who needs em. Hit me up in game today I will grind you through the ground. I am still a captain. We can also fly around looking for Borg red alerts and keep swapping instances.
@etherealplanes Just give me a chance to do mirror once for my 3 other toons first.
Edit nevermind the server just went down right after a patch too. LMFAO this game fails so hard
I always thought that VPvP's intent was to be more low impact than low cost; since there are lots of different costs (time, money, Dil, EC, Zen, grinding ground missions you hate rather than playing space ones you enjoy, BOFF slots, duplication just for VPvP rules compliance etc).
By getting hung up on (EC? Dil?) 'cost', it's lost sight of being low impact - and is now increasingly becoming high impact, and high(-er than necessary EC) cost.
It could easily become the broad home for all of the jaded waifs and strays, who refuse to shovel the more egregious **** in the DR money pit; but only with some adaptability whilst also keeping focused on what the actual core point of all this was in the first place. Rather than remaining focused on only a single part of the increasing and morphing problem, and the rules meant to address only that.
Blech, I've said this already a few times in this thread, and no one's replied so I'll say no more. This can all be turned around if there is a strong will to do so. I genuinely hope you do, more for other people's sake than my own [me being an anti-social sod who prefers to do his own thing anyway]:D.
I always thought that VPvP's intent was to be more low impact than low cost; since there are lots of different costs (time, money, Dil, EC, Zen, grinding ground missions you hate rather than playing space ones you enjoy, BOFF slots, duplication just for VPvP rules compliance etc).
By getting hung up on (EC? Dil?) 'cost', it's lost sight of being low impact - and is now increasingly becoming high impact, and high(-er than necessary EC) cost.
It could easily become the broad home for all of the jaded waifs and strays, who refuse to shovel the more egregious **** in the DR money pit; but only with some adaptability whilst also keeping focused on what the actual core point of all this was in the first place. Rather than remaining focused on only a single part of the increasing and morphing problem, and the rules meant to address only that.
Blech, I've said this already a few times in this thread, and no one's replied so I'll say no more. This can all be turned around if there is a strong will to do so. I genuinely hope you do, more for other people's sake than my own [me being an anti-social sod who prefers to do his own thing anyway]:D.
Funny how I just bought an entire sci ship and it's build with 2 console options for less than 2 million. Includes 5 eff Saurians as well.
Funny how I just bought an entire sci ship and it's build with 2 console options for less than 2 million. Includes 5 eff Saurians as well.
Yup, and that'll be you doing what I mentioned and focusing on EC cost rather than the far more expensive and important impact. The point of VPvP was really to be low impact.
Can't you see how absurd it is, that you think that it's better (lower impact? lower cost? what?) for me to just discard my beloved Eng, with her complete VPvP-compliant ship and gear already bought and ready to rock about a month ago (that's never even been used for VPvP, since I stopped playing in disgust - disgust for all the same reasons as the boss's, and I also stopped before at around the same time as he quit, for exactly the same reasons, so I know where he's coming from), because I now have some Specialisations.
Rather than work out some Specialisations:Gear exchange rate, or whatever, it is lower cost/impact for me to have to ditch her and her unused ship, and grind a fresh char to Lvl 50, then buy another ship and gear???
Or the same for your man above, who also has a char/build ready to rock, but has just one single Spec point spent; so now has to grind a char he doesn't want to from 10-50, doing all those ground missions that he appears to HATE as much as I do - just so he can play VPvP.
The point of VPvP was to save folks having to endure the burdens (Ec, Dil, time-grind etc) foisted upon players to remain competitive, by DR. By losing sight of the core goal, in favour of rules and how cheaply (in EC) you can outfit a VPvP-compliant ship; you're in the ludicrous situation of imposing far worse impositions, and far more horrible, soul-destroying grind (ground grind, ground grind, ground grind, ground grind, from zero to 50 baby!) than even the evil company has subjected us to. And at just the same time that they're also nerfing the XP of those you glibly expect to grind all the way up too (though the company may reverse this?).
I don't think that that's what was really intended, eh? Talk about the cure being worse than the disease....
EDIT: PS, I only got one char up to Lvl 50 the (ground, ground, ground, ground...) missions way, and vowed I would never do that again. Rather than do that, I spent a fortune on XP boosters and DOFF packs, and DOFFED my Eng and Sci up to 50. That's how much I HATE ground missions, and levelling up to 50.
Conversely, my main has enjoyed herself in getting from 50 to '63' by doing nothing but flying about and skipping all of the new DQ ground missions, just as I felt like it.
Do you really only have a single character? Maybe that is the decisive disconnect between the old players and the new ones. Many old folks have like a dozen or more characters so that there is no shortage of toons that one can keep specialisation-free.
EDIT: Also, what is the current leveling speed from 0 to 50? It used to be less than 24h /played.
Sorry, I just dropped an edit as you were posting. I went into that disconnect, and why it's so unfun to create/have alts now, in an earlier post - actually in response to this very point that you'd made earlier.
For me vpvp will be about playing in the skill based and team oriented no p2w cheese setting we all used to play in pre Season 5. While it's true the base dmg of weapons, the addition of resist skills, and some boff powers have changed since then this will still be very close to the game we played back in the day. And if my guess is correct it might be better off in some ways (except for sci ships LOL). But I am also making a sci ship for the challenge of it.
Basically pvpers are now in 3 groups. You either 1. vpvp 2. Be Fully geared up level 60 and stomp noobs with no skill or challenge. 3. Been geared/grinded up as of last season but not in a position to play level 60 pvp without heavy grind or time to grind. I don't have anything close to resembling a level 60 grinded out toon. I have been doing nothing but ground pvp since late LOR season. For me the only choice to ever space pvp again now is an easy one. Fresh toons for vpvp only.
As I have only Hide weakneses 1 which is +20 defense on that shield facing that is fully depleted. The abilty can be activated every 30 seconds and it lasts for 5 seconds. I would/could use 1 or 2 less armor consoles than the maximum amount of Eng consoles allowed depending on the ship.
Edit: Im not sure if the ability works on 1 facing or for the whole ship.
As I have only Hide weakneses 1 which is +20 defense on that shield facing that is fully depleted. The abilty can be activated every 30 seconds and it lasts for 5 seconds. I would/could use 1 or 2 less armor consoles than the maximum amount of Eng consoles allowed depending on the ship.
You will have to get approval for that I suppose. personally I would hesitate if i were then to start bending the rules because at some point it will become a case of well you let him do it. I will help you grind your low level today if you want man. Just hit me up, I eat up ground lol easy for me.
Do you really only have a single character? Maybe that is the decisive disconnect between the old players and the new ones. Many old folks have like a dozen or more characters so that there is no shortage of toons that one can keep specialisation-free.
EDIT: Also, what is the current leveling speed from 0 to 50? It used to be less than 24h /played.
I leveled up my KDF in a week to 50 but I was playing all day because I was ill. This happened maybe 2 months ago.
Comments
Yes they can be disabled, and they are no longer a problem since you can only have 4 active.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
It's easy finding the MK X/XI. I think I spent 400k for 2 toons. That stuff drops still.
Traits/rep aren't like they were. In the ship tab "U" you can move them around freely now vs respec.
Hopefully VPVP survives and picks up. It would be a nice distraction.
Hope you are well. Been too long since we've done any pew.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
At the rate people are leaving, we wont need to worry about spec points soon...
I took T'Rebek to Ker'rat earlier - quiet as a quiet thing at a rock concert. I was flying around with no shields equipped just to see if anyone was around; I got bored and exited. Never was attacked...
I've finally got my klingon tac up to 50 and setup: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=vanillasniper_0. I expect to die a lot, lol.
I was going to do my klingon sci too but, without thinking, spent a spec point when leveled on doffing
Thank you for the reply in the STB thread.
STB also supports and wishes nothing but success to VPvP.
Keep being true to the idea of fair play and make STO work for other like minded STO players.
After getting my main character to level 52 today, a character that has a JHAS and Mk 12 shinies, I can reiterate my complete and utter hatred for leveling/spec grinding. I cannot in any spirit of friendship subject someone to such torture to simply be competitive in VPvP.
Well, everyone is in the same boat - Im back on Tribble to do any level 50+ PvE now, all my 50s are at 50.9999 worth of XP, if I do anything they will level up...
Still, at least I can now spend a bit more time on my Reman and Gorn.
If those are VPvP alts, you can level them up without spending spec points.
The Reman and Gorn will likely be VPvP only, but the others listed in my sig I would like at least PvE spec, and T'Rebek and K'Ahlayr Normal PvP spec...
It was part of the attraction of VPvP at first though, you could have your mains VPvP capable and Normal PvP capable, now that we need to have separate NPvP and VPvP chars it takes the shine of the entire system off...
Now all you've got, to get your fresh, VPvP-compliant toon up to Lvl 50 is ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission, after ground mission... what's this a purely space mission... oh it's not in my ship, of course, but in an effing shuttle:mad:... ground mission after ground mission, after ground mission after....
[Or there's DOFFing, but that's expensive if you want to do that well and quickly.]
I came to HATE ground missions, and now pretty much refuse to do them. I've had the final (ground, natch...) mission for the Romulan rep on my screen for weeks, maybe months, and I just don't want to do it. Conversely, while it's been there on my screen, I've been levelling up to 61 by merrily doing what I do enjoy: flying around and melting fools, all in my ship, going 'Wheee!'. It's not been a grind at all, but just what I enjoy doing and what I'd log in for even if there was nothing beyond Lvl 50 - exactly as I used to but now I get extra, free stuff for doing so. Nothing in this levelling process has even cost me a scrap of Dil or EC - it just happened in the background.
And it seems that the XP nerf is also being applied to everything now, from the fresh faced Ensign onwards. Now, I quit for a couple of weeks in disgust at 9.5, and for a couple of weeks (including uninstalling) in the lead up to DR. There will doubtless come a time when I leave forever, the way things are going. But for now, I'm staggered that you consider creating a fresh char and levelling him up to 50 is less of a grind than what you can choose to do post Lvl 50.
You've read plenty of posts about how these changes are the death of alts; and they are because it's now so unrewarding (read: soul-destroying) and expensive to make alts. It's all about focusing your resources upon a scant few chars now. I mention this because I've been silently following VPvP since the first post, and heartily cheering for you guys. I had my beloved main in her VPvP ship, respeced with VPvP gear bought that day, doing some testing of my build before asking for an invite. Though I didn't particularly want to, I needed to fly about to a load of systems to get Diplomacy DOFF missions set up - now that's a grind!
Then there were server problems (later turned out to be the day they had the roll-back), and I just thought 'eff this - sick of it, why am I keeping on trying to log in to do something I don't really want to anyway... that I'm also paying handsomely for, with a company I hate and despise?' and uninstalled.
I came back for the new ships, bought the DR pack mostly with Zen I had already, and haven't spent anything since, nor do I want to unless things seriously change with the company's attitudes. This means that alts are out now, and I need to focus purely on my main. I'd hoped that she could be both my VPvP char and the one who discovered what all of the new stuff was about. I'd racked up a few Specialisation points in no time flat, while doing nothing but preliminary testing of my new Eclipse [what a ship!]. I won't go into why I decided to spend them, knowing that this effectively then meant no VPvP for me.
Your decision will only keep getting harder for you as they keep TRIBBLE everybody, including new toons. Obviously do what you want, but I'd suggest looking at the handicap system I mentioned before; where anybody can be a PvPer, regardless of what the company continues to do, and however much it tries to perpetually pull the rug out from under your feet.
Shouldn't be too hard for you guys to work out a rough exchange rate between Intel Space tiers and gear quality. You have no Specialisation points spent, so can have the default VPvP gear. I have 9 spent in Space Intel, so all of my weapons have to go down a Mk. Test, rebalance (might be that a weapon goes down in Mk for every two points spent, or three, whatever) until you find the correct exchange rate.
Then this is all in your hands, and you don't have to wring your hands over rock and a hard place decisions all the time.
Best of luck, as always.
I've been only spending points in Pilot since that one can be turned off.
Edit: I forgot that I have a fresh lvl 50 kdf
I have thought about the fact that my main FED has one point into Intel and I have come to solution that I could get a lower mark or quality neutronium. The Intel thingy I have is Hide weakneses 1. But I think You could allow atleast 1 Intel thingy. I have also noticed its pretty quiet on the channel at the Eu time when people play.
Edit: As captain specialisation is not allowed could someone then gift me a Qin raptor because I dont have the ec for it if I want equipment. I cant use my main fed that would have plenty of allowed ships because I have one Intel spec.
Its also quiet because masses of people have either quit or reduced playtime since DR. VPvP not allowing Spec stuff hasn't helped either...
I could level up my Fed alt that is lvl 10 but its a so anoying grind of ground s**t just so that I can VPvP. Not rly worth it.
Don't be afraid of ground pve LOL. I do it without my boffs geared at all LOL who needs em. Hit me up in game today I will grind you through the ground. I am still a captain. We can also fly around looking for Borg red alerts and keep swapping instances.
@etherealplanes Just give me a chance to do mirror once for my 3 other toons first.
Edit nevermind the server just went down right after a patch too. LMFAO this game fails so hard
By getting hung up on (EC? Dil?) 'cost', it's lost sight of being low impact - and is now increasingly becoming high impact, and high(-er than necessary EC) cost.
It could easily become the broad home for all of the jaded waifs and strays, who refuse to shovel the more egregious **** in the DR money pit; but only with some adaptability whilst also keeping focused on what the actual core point of all this was in the first place. Rather than remaining focused on only a single part of the increasing and morphing problem, and the rules meant to address only that.
Blech, I've said this already a few times in this thread, and no one's replied so I'll say no more. This can all be turned around if there is a strong will to do so. I genuinely hope you do, more for other people's sake than my own [me being an anti-social sod who prefers to do his own thing anyway]:D.
Funny how I just bought an entire sci ship and it's build with 2 console options for less than 2 million. Includes 5 eff Saurians as well.
Yup, and that'll be you doing what I mentioned and focusing on EC cost rather than the far more expensive and important impact. The point of VPvP was really to be low impact.
Can't you see how absurd it is, that you think that it's better (lower impact? lower cost? what?) for me to just discard my beloved Eng, with her complete VPvP-compliant ship and gear already bought and ready to rock about a month ago (that's never even been used for VPvP, since I stopped playing in disgust - disgust for all the same reasons as the boss's, and I also stopped before at around the same time as he quit, for exactly the same reasons, so I know where he's coming from), because I now have some Specialisations.
Rather than work out some Specialisations:Gear exchange rate, or whatever, it is lower cost/impact for me to have to ditch her and her unused ship, and grind a fresh char to Lvl 50, then buy another ship and gear???
Or the same for your man above, who also has a char/build ready to rock, but has just one single Spec point spent; so now has to grind a char he doesn't want to from 10-50, doing all those ground missions that he appears to HATE as much as I do - just so he can play VPvP.
The point of VPvP was to save folks having to endure the burdens (Ec, Dil, time-grind etc) foisted upon players to remain competitive, by DR. By losing sight of the core goal, in favour of rules and how cheaply (in EC) you can outfit a VPvP-compliant ship; you're in the ludicrous situation of imposing far worse impositions, and far more horrible, soul-destroying grind (ground grind, ground grind, ground grind, ground grind, from zero to 50 baby!) than even the evil company has subjected us to. And at just the same time that they're also nerfing the XP of those you glibly expect to grind all the way up too (though the company may reverse this?).
I don't think that that's what was really intended, eh? Talk about the cure being worse than the disease....
EDIT: PS, I only got one char up to Lvl 50 the (ground, ground, ground, ground...) missions way, and vowed I would never do that again. Rather than do that, I spent a fortune on XP boosters and DOFF packs, and DOFFED my Eng and Sci up to 50. That's how much I HATE ground missions, and levelling up to 50.
Conversely, my main has enjoyed herself in getting from 50 to '63' by doing nothing but flying about and skipping all of the new DQ ground missions, just as I felt like it.
EDIT: Also, what is the current leveling speed from 0 to 50? It used to be less than 24h /played.
EDIT: 'Twas #763.
Basically pvpers are now in 3 groups. You either 1. vpvp 2. Be Fully geared up level 60 and stomp noobs with no skill or challenge. 3. Been geared/grinded up as of last season but not in a position to play level 60 pvp without heavy grind or time to grind. I don't have anything close to resembling a level 60 grinded out toon. I have been doing nothing but ground pvp since late LOR season. For me the only choice to ever space pvp again now is an easy one. Fresh toons for vpvp only.
Edit: Im not sure if the ability works on 1 facing or for the whole ship.
You will have to get approval for that I suppose. personally I would hesitate if i were then to start bending the rules because at some point it will become a case of well you let him do it. I will help you grind your low level today if you want man. Just hit me up, I eat up ground lol easy for me.
I leveled up my KDF in a week to 50 but I was playing all day because I was ill. This happened maybe 2 months ago.