I think as PvPers we all just need to be honest with ourselves.
Who cares about T5 upgrades.
All I care about are lockbox upgrades cause seriously who PvPs with anything less.
Sure now and then I'll fly something else and pve in it.... and for that I could care less about upgrades ect ect.
All I want to know and all I give a rats behind about... is what new lockbox we are getting... and if the NEW lockbox ships are going to be full on T6.
If they are then I'm fine... cause frankly we all seriously move to the latest greatest lockbox ships anyway.
So all I really want to know is when T6 hits in October... is the First Delta Lockbox and everyone after going to have T6+ lockboxe ships in them.
The xindi escort had a great ride for a few months... but I won't bother upgrading it if there is some T6+ lockbox scort to grab instead.... the Pallisade and Wells sure great bored of them anyway Give me a T6+ Sci lockbox... Healer ya the tholian carrier is cute, whats next.
Serious PvPers don't fly defiants or BOPS or Fleet Sabers or Deep Space Science ships... they fly lockbox ships. They also upgrade everytime a new lockbox drops as needed. So like all the boxes before the new ones are likely going to have must haves. Nothing new here. Nothing to see... move along.
Great, so no starship trait, additional boff ability or specialist boff slot.
This is not exactly true. Geko just posted that there will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits, and that they are tied to your captain, not your ship. So, it sounds like they go with you, once unlocked... and buying a fancy T6 ship is one way to unlock it.
Check the dev tracker.
This means the only difference between T5-U and T6 is the new BOFF station, and the extra BOFF power slot. Unless the new BOFF station is "The Q Station," LOL, this isn't a catastrophe.
The whole point of this system is to ensure they don't make everything that people already own useless but at the same time saying "Frankly, you really really should by T6 instead."
But they can't because if they make everything equal then they won't sell their new ships. They have to make things slightly worse because people vastly prefer the iconic ship designs to Cryptic's in-house designs. So, the only way to get decent sales is via more power creep.
I know Tier 6 new ships have to sell, but maybe giving the T-5 Upgraded ships equal mastery and trait is a good compromise, while Tier 6 ships retain the Unique special BO type seating?
Especially for ships that cost a ton of money alraedy, like a retrofit than fleet ship.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
Fair enough.
I think I'm most concerned about missing the bridge officer ability, though. We've seen in every jump from tier to tier so far how more boff seating means more power. Having a ship with one less ability feels like it will really, really hurt.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I like the starship mastery system, it gives the implication of the great crews of old, how Scotty knew just how to coax a little more out of the Enterprise's engines, how Sisko and O'Brien managed to fix the Defiant's engine problems when the egg heads at Utopia Planitia couldn't, how Janeway could fly Voyager through a binary pulsar, how Trip and Reed could install the Phase Cannons by themselves, how Geordi adapted his visor tech to perfect the Multi-phase tractor beam and push a stellar core fragment. The type of things that naturally follow with serving on a ship for years and learning how she operates and what she can take.
I'm saddened that it doesn't apply to all ships in the game.
If I have one request on the implementation, please let the Tier 5-U ships get the fifth level in the mastery. Especially since so many of us have been flying them for so long, it just makes sense that we would have them fully mastered.
As far as the price, I would hope that Cryptic goes with the $5/500 zen price point for single ships, and if they are planning on enforcing that for each ship in a bundle then the better idea is to make $10 for upgrading every ship in a bundle.
The account wide thing, that is worthy of praise and I applaud that call. *Clap Clap Clap*
And in case it was lost in the shuffle I'll ask again, will tier 5 ships purchased after Delta Rising receive an automatic tier 5-U upgrade?
On another note, these Tier 6 ships had better be drop dead gorgeous. Please no blocky angles. I would also say don't advance towards the Enterprise-J design direction.
I'd just be happy with getting the starship trait, myself. As I mentioned in an earlier post. These are supposed to be our ships like the Enterprise, Voyager and Defiant. They're supposed to be part of our story so T5-Us should be able to have a unique, specialized starship trait that sets them apart from the pack just as much as T6s if that's what we choose.
I'd like to know what the actual Voyager would rate as in the tier system. Is it a Tier 5-U?
This Upgrade Purchase is going to be before or after we claim a ship?
And is this upgrade permanent? Or this upgrade is only for ships throughout the account that's already been claimed?
(For an example: I got Avengers on two of my Federation characters, but not on my Federation Science character. I go to upgrade, and my two Federation characters Avengers get upgraded. But I go to claim the Avenger on my Science character, will it be T5 or T5U?)
If we are paying for upgrades, I think we should at least get a better deal than this.
Well they stated that it was account wide and traditionally that means that if you start a new character and they get that ship they won't have to pay again, so I think you're safe with dismissing.
Well the mightly JHAS is now vendortrash ... good luck trying to sell Promo Packs next time with it as a price.
I dont even want to comment on this, its simply .... disgusting.
I think it will still retain some value for people who want the carrier pet version as well.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Dude, they said so from the START. Your done now because they did EXACTLY what they said they would?!? Seriously?!? Now you could be pissed that they did not do ENOUGH for the T5-U...which I don't think they did...but you should have already known the T6 > T5-U bit.
Here's the thing ... they said right from the start that they would not forget about the peoples' investments in their ships over the past 4 years.
Unfortunately, they missed the mark. By a long shot.
I uninstalled with 9.5. So I've been done.
I'm not coming back. T6 is a ship you grind. That's not fun. T5-U is inferior. That's not fun. There's no fun left. The game has passed me by.
Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them.
...but, then you said...
Upgrading a Tier 5 ship is easy.
First, you must be level 50 and at a starship selector NPC on a ground map.
When browsing your starships youll notice that qualifying Tier 5 ships will now have an upgrade button on the starships inventory screen.
Pressing this button will prompt you to pay a Zen cost (or possibly require an item with a Zen cost). This cost will be significantly lower than if you were to purchase a Tier 6 ship from the Zen Store. Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
The lack of the new "specialist" bridge officer seating is an acceptable loss to me.
Apparently not all T6 ships will even have this special Bridge seat available, so it's a bonus, like the Tempest tailgun or a built-in battle cloak - nice to have, but the lack of it isn't a deal-breaker.
However, the lack of the top-tier Trait is huge.
And the inability to use "Captain" level bridge officers is basically a deal-breaker.
Having to re-buy all of my various C-Store ships is a tough sell.
It's an even tougher sell when, after upgrading those ships, they will be an entire Bridge Officer tier behind the shiny new Tier 6 ships. The inability to use Attack Pattern Beta 4 or whatever Captain-level BOffs get is a game-changer, especially when you consider how the BOff slots on a ship with that kind of officer will end up filling out.
Sorry, STO, but you may have just driven me away from the game with this news.
Looking over the blog, I can agree with most of it.
The list of benefits between T5-U and T6 seem rather fair to me to a point. The lack of one mastery level, star ship trait and ability, I can all understand as perfectly fair, and would expect. I am rather disappointed though that the new bridge officer class won't be able to be used on T5-U however. I was quite looking forward to buying some of those for my main character, whatever they may be. Now however, I don't have any use for them. I really agree with some of the other comments in this thread, that they should be able to be used in universal officer seats.
The rest of the post looks good to me, except for this.
Q: How much Zen will it cost to upgrade my starship?
A: We have not finalized the cost, but it is likely to be somewhere between $5 and $10.
Granted, alone, 5 to 10 dollars isn't much for upgrading a single ship. However, I myself have 9 characters, 7 of which will need upgrades. That means that I'll end up needing to pay anywhere from 35 to 70 dollars. I know from people in my fleet(s) that other players have even more characters they play on, and multiple ships per character. It's unreasonable in my opinion to think players will willingly pay possibly hundreds of dollars to upgrade all their ships. Even if they don't upgrade every ship they own, 70+ dollars is a lot to ask. :eek:
I really hope the final price for upgrading is lower than what is mentioned in the blog.
Not getting the extra bridge officer slot in particular feels like it will hurt. We've seen in the existing tier progression how important more bridge officer slots are in adding to the power and versatility of a ship.
I would have liked to see T5Us get the boff seat and the full level progression and ship trait, while specialist seating remains the domain of the T6 ships.
FYI - Said bridge officer is not like the other bridge officers.
if it mean that the JHAS is geting tier 5-U then i really suggest that you give it tier 6 fully as it is the most expensive and hardest ship to get your hands on this would be best for it otherwise it will be hard as a selling point for this ship anymore
SO all my ships I paid REAL money for are going to be obsolete unless I PAY more REAL Money?....guess I'm done with STO.
so wait, let me get this straight. you want a t6 ship for t5 price? aren't you a little bit too self entitled?
be happy you can put a bit more zen to get a t6 ship instead of scrapping your ship and having to buy a new one for full price.
500 zen vs 3000-3500. what's better?
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I think I'm most concerned about missing the bridge officer ability, though. We've seen in every jump from tier to tier so far how more boff seating means more power. Having a ship with one less ability feels like it will really, really hurt.
Agree. In PvP that extra ability will be noticeable, especially if the new BOFF specialisation's powers are as useful and awesome as the buildup is implying.
What exactly would be the point of monitoring this thread for feedback? You've already told us time and again that player feedback is not taken into account in any way during the development process.
From what they've said, I'm pretty sure that Tier 6 ships get an EXTRA boff slot, not an upgraded boff slot. So NO on LT to LTC, Yes on 'extra CMDR slot that can slot new type of boffs that draw from one of the three old (Sci/Tac/Eng) pools, and also from the new undisclosed pool.
So a tier 6 cruiser would have 2x ENG/Specialist CMDR boff slots, an LTC slot, two LTs and an Ensign.
If I have one request on the implementation, please let the Tier 5-U ships get the fifth level in the mastery. Especially since so many of us have been flying them for so long, it just makes sense that we would have them fully mastered.
It looks like the 5th level is just unlocking a special, T6 ship-specific trait to go in one of your four ship trait slots.
Geko says there will be other ways to get (different) ship traits, so I can live with not having this. There are plenty of traits in the game now that I don't have unlocked, and it doesn't bother me.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The upgrade cost being in dilithium would be much more acceptable to me. I am not paying another USD $5 to upgrade a $25 ship, not happening. Don't care if it's my USD or someone elses.
Nor will I pay another $5 to upgrade another ship I already paid $5 to upgrade after paying $20 for the ship. Especially my FPE since it no longer exists so to speak.
Lastly the lack of a boff ability is huge. If the starship traits you guys create for the ships are done properly they will be more than enough to sell T6 ships. Their is no need to further handicap T5U ships like that. Unless their passive starship trait upgrade thingies are stronger or something else compensates for that which I do not see.
I would have given the existing T5 ships something compelling, anything even if it was weaker than the extra boff slot. Like you did with the warbirds vs non warbirds when designing them.
Nor I am looking forward to the sooner or later leech console or inspirational trait equivalent being unlocked by a tier 6 ship ship trait that is leaps and bounds above anything else everyone will need it to be top tier performance.
I'm off to marvel heroes now where they actually bother to revamp older hero releases and don't charge again for them. Also where they don't make your existing purchases obsolete unless you pay more money.
Sometimes I feel like most of sto's playerbase have never played any other mmo's. How can this possibly be a surprise Of course the expansion is going to make everything obsolete, it's what expansions do.
Comments
Yup. T6 > T5-U.
I'm done.
Who cares about T5 upgrades.
All I care about are lockbox upgrades cause seriously who PvPs with anything less.
Sure now and then I'll fly something else and pve in it.... and for that I could care less about upgrades ect ect.
All I want to know and all I give a rats behind about... is what new lockbox we are getting... and if the NEW lockbox ships are going to be full on T6.
If they are then I'm fine... cause frankly we all seriously move to the latest greatest lockbox ships anyway.
So all I really want to know is when T6 hits in October... is the First Delta Lockbox and everyone after going to have T6+ lockboxe ships in them.
The xindi escort had a great ride for a few months... but I won't bother upgrading it if there is some T6+ lockbox scort to grab instead.... the Pallisade and Wells sure great bored of them anyway Give me a T6+ Sci lockbox... Healer ya the tholian carrier is cute, whats next.
Serious PvPers don't fly defiants or BOPS or Fleet Sabers or Deep Space Science ships... they fly lockbox ships. They also upgrade everytime a new lockbox drops as needed. So like all the boxes before the new ones are likely going to have must haves. Nothing new here. Nothing to see... move along.
So it will upgrade but not upgrade to a level equivalent to a fleet ship that upgraded.
This is not exactly true. Geko just posted that there will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits, and that they are tied to your captain, not your ship. So, it sounds like they go with you, once unlocked... and buying a fancy T6 ship is one way to unlock it.
Check the dev tracker.
This means the only difference between T5-U and T6 is the new BOFF station, and the extra BOFF power slot. Unless the new BOFF station is "The Q Station," LOL, this isn't a catastrophe.
But they can't because if they make everything equal then they won't sell their new ships. They have to make things slightly worse because people vastly prefer the iconic ship designs to Cryptic's in-house designs. So, the only way to get decent sales is via more power creep.
Especially for ships that cost a ton of money alraedy, like a retrofit than fleet ship.
Good to know, thank you kindly.
Fair enough.
I think I'm most concerned about missing the bridge officer ability, though. We've seen in every jump from tier to tier so far how more boff seating means more power. Having a ship with one less ability feels like it will really, really hurt.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I like the starship mastery system, it gives the implication of the great crews of old, how Scotty knew just how to coax a little more out of the Enterprise's engines, how Sisko and O'Brien managed to fix the Defiant's engine problems when the egg heads at Utopia Planitia couldn't, how Janeway could fly Voyager through a binary pulsar, how Trip and Reed could install the Phase Cannons by themselves, how Geordi adapted his visor tech to perfect the Multi-phase tractor beam and push a stellar core fragment. The type of things that naturally follow with serving on a ship for years and learning how she operates and what she can take.
I'm saddened that it doesn't apply to all ships in the game.
If I have one request on the implementation, please let the Tier 5-U ships get the fifth level in the mastery. Especially since so many of us have been flying them for so long, it just makes sense that we would have them fully mastered.
As far as the price, I would hope that Cryptic goes with the $5/500 zen price point for single ships, and if they are planning on enforcing that for each ship in a bundle then the better idea is to make $10 for upgrading every ship in a bundle.
The account wide thing, that is worthy of praise and I applaud that call. *Clap Clap Clap*
And in case it was lost in the shuffle I'll ask again, will tier 5 ships purchased after Delta Rising receive an automatic tier 5-U upgrade?
On another note, these Tier 6 ships had better be drop dead gorgeous. Please no blocky angles. I would also say don't advance towards the Enterprise-J design direction.
I'd like to know what the actual Voyager would rate as in the tier system. Is it a Tier 5-U?
Well they stated that it was account wide and traditionally that means that if you start a new character and they get that ship they won't have to pay again, so I think you're safe with dismissing.
I think it will still retain some value for people who want the carrier pet version as well.
Here's the thing ... they said right from the start that they would not forget about the peoples' investments in their ships over the past 4 years.
Unfortunately, they missed the mark. By a long shot.
I uninstalled with 9.5. So I've been done.
I'm not coming back. T6 is a ship you grind. That's not fun. T5-U is inferior. That's not fun. There's no fun left. The game has passed me by.
So, seriously? Yes. I'm done.
Apparently not all T6 ships will even have this special Bridge seat available, so it's a bonus, like the Tempest tailgun or a built-in battle cloak - nice to have, but the lack of it isn't a deal-breaker.
However, the lack of the top-tier Trait is huge.
And the inability to use "Captain" level bridge officers is basically a deal-breaker.
Having to re-buy all of my various C-Store ships is a tough sell.
It's an even tougher sell when, after upgrading those ships, they will be an entire Bridge Officer tier behind the shiny new Tier 6 ships. The inability to use Attack Pattern Beta 4 or whatever Captain-level BOffs get is a game-changer, especially when you consider how the BOff slots on a ship with that kind of officer will end up filling out.
Sorry, STO, but you may have just driven me away from the game with this news.
The list of benefits between T5-U and T6 seem rather fair to me to a point. The lack of one mastery level, star ship trait and ability, I can all understand as perfectly fair, and would expect. I am rather disappointed though that the new bridge officer class won't be able to be used on T5-U however. I was quite looking forward to buying some of those for my main character, whatever they may be. Now however, I don't have any use for them.
The rest of the post looks good to me, except for this.
Granted, alone, 5 to 10 dollars isn't much for upgrading a single ship. However, I myself have 9 characters, 7 of which will need upgrades. That means that I'll end up needing to pay anywhere from 35 to 70 dollars. I know from people in my fleet(s) that other players have even more characters they play on, and multiple ships per character. It's unreasonable in my opinion to think players will willingly pay possibly hundreds of dollars to upgrade all their ships. Even if they don't upgrade every ship they own, 70+ dollars is a lot to ask. :eek:
I really hope the final price for upgrading is lower than what is mentioned in the blog.
FYI - Said bridge officer is not like the other bridge officers.
so wait, let me get this straight. you want a t6 ship for t5 price? aren't you a little bit too self entitled?
be happy you can put a bit more zen to get a t6 ship instead of scrapping your ship and having to buy a new one for full price.
500 zen vs 3000-3500. what's better?
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Agree. In PvP that extra ability will be noticeable, especially if the new BOFF specialisation's powers are as useful and awesome as the buildup is implying.
So they can laugh?
So a tier 6 cruiser would have 2x ENG/Specialist CMDR boff slots, an LTC slot, two LTs and an Ensign.
Tier 5U ships won't have that extra CMDR slot.
It looks like the 5th level is just unlocking a special, T6 ship-specific trait to go in one of your four ship trait slots.
Geko says there will be other ways to get (different) ship traits, so I can live with not having this. There are plenty of traits in the game now that I don't have unlocked, and it doesn't bother me.
Nor will I pay another $5 to upgrade another ship I already paid $5 to upgrade after paying $20 for the ship. Especially my FPE since it no longer exists so to speak.
Lastly the lack of a boff ability is huge. If the starship traits you guys create for the ships are done properly they will be more than enough to sell T6 ships. Their is no need to further handicap T5U ships like that. Unless their passive starship trait upgrade thingies are stronger or something else compensates for that which I do not see.
I would have given the existing T5 ships something compelling, anything even if it was weaker than the extra boff slot. Like you did with the warbirds vs non warbirds when designing them.
Nor I am looking forward to the sooner or later leech console or inspirational trait equivalent being unlocked by a tier 6 ship ship trait that is leaps and bounds above anything else everyone will need it to be top tier performance.
I'm off to marvel heroes now where they actually bother to revamp older hero releases and don't charge again for them. Also where they don't make your existing purchases obsolete unless you pay more money.