Why then whats the point of doing tier 6. I swear I think some of you have never played any other MMO before.
By your logic all ships should be the same tier then why wasn't tier 1 upgradeable to tier 5 or any other tier for that matter.
Leave the tiers they way are and offer retrofits for some of them in tier 6, and no they are not free you should have to work for them.
totally agree.. id even go a step further and suggest that some of them are maybe
still breast fed! So many people want the insta-instant gratification too, no build up, no
buzz of happy speculation, waiting for little crumbs of info leaked out, no, not good
enough.. to them it must be NOW! THIS INSTANT! NOT A MOMENT LATER
Actually, this whole Tier 5 to Tier 6 mess could easily be dealt with, by doing the following:
- Abandon the "Tier" system entirely. All ships are level-less, and can be acquired any time you want, regardless of rank.
- Implement Suricata's old "Computer Core" idea, where the Computer Core determines the number of BO slots, their ranks etc.
Ships do not "level up". They get upgraded, via gear (new warpcores, shields, weapons etc). The Tier system was flawed on Day 1. It's time to completely abandon it. Does Cryptic have the [Redacted] to abandon it? I don't think so, but it would be the best solution.
Actually, this whole Tier 5 to Tier 6 mess could easily be dealt with, by doing the following:
- Abandon the "Tier" system entirely. All ships are level-less, and can be acquired any time you want, regardless of rank.
- Implement Suricata's old "Computer Core" idea, where the Computer Core determines the number of BO slots, their ranks etc.
Ships do not "level up". They get upgraded, via gear (new warpcores, shields, weapons etc). The Tier system was flawed on Day 1. It's time to completely abandon it. Does Cryptic have the [Redacted] to abandon it? I don't think so, but it would be the best solution.
^^ - This. This has been the only true solution to the ship tier system. And frankly fed up that Cryptic refuses to implement it.
IT IS TIME! Tier 6 Constitution Class Modern-Rebirth-Retro-Refit
You cannot justify denying this dream any longer. Starfleet has an outrageous amount of non-Federation vessels in active service. Even Species 8472 Ships that can "call" more Undine Ships from Fluidic Space.
Not to mention... Dinosaurs that shoot laser beams from their mouths! CBS... Cryptic... PWE... Whoever you are that is blocking End-Game Constitution Refit. Just stop it already! Let is go and let it happen.
CBS Studios doesn't have to justify anything to you. It's their property, not yours.
"we are dedicated to making sure that players can continue flying the ships they love and still have those ships be competitive at the new level 60 end game. We do not want players to feel that their investment in the current ships is devalued by the expansion."
I am gonna anxiously await the details on this issue. Having said that, here are a few of MY concerns:
.Lockbox and lobi ships. Considering the considerable expense involved in obtaining these ships, I would hope that these ships too would get a free upgrade, just like the JHAS ship is getting.
My future participation in any of these future lockbox events depends on how this is handled.
. C store Ships, - Main question- HOW MUCH to upgrade ?
. What's Cryptic's idea of "competitive"?
"This is definitely some of the best work the Star Trek Online team has ever produced and youre going to love it!"
At the risk of sounding flippant, I'll be the judge of that.
In honesty, I haven't been lovin the crafting update personally. So I'm a bit cautious with my enthusiasm, at least till some of my questions have been fully answered.
I really dont care if I have to pay to upgrade my T5 ships, I just want to be able to fly the ships I have come to associate with my characters at endgame and not be weaker than everyone in their new T6 ships.
Actually, this whole Tier 5 to Tier 6 mess could easily be dealt with, by doing the following:
- Abandon the "Tier" system entirely. All ships are level-less, and can be acquired any time you want, regardless of rank.
- Implement Suricata's old "Computer Core" idea, where the Computer Core determines the number of BO slots, their ranks etc.
Ships do not "level up". They get upgraded, via gear (new warpcores, shields, weapons etc). The Tier system was flawed on Day 1. It's time to completely abandon it. Does Cryptic have the [Redacted] to abandon it? I don't think so, but it would be the best solution.
It would be nice not outgrowing our ships and being able to use our starter ship all the way to endgame content. But it's never going to happen for 1 simple reason: "NO T5 CONNIES PERIOD. SO STFU AND STOP ASKING!"~Cryptic
So the reason why our ships can't scale with player rank is because Cryptic isn't allowed to give us endgame levels of specific ships. The Miranda (Fed starter ship) is another I would like to have an endgame version of. Heck you only get that as a starter ship and this is no higher level Miranda you can buy in the c-store or anywhere else in the game.
At this point I've given up all hope of ever having any kind of endgame Constitution class vessel, even if it's a completely original design by Cryptic based on a connie. No hope whatsoever, especially since recently captainsmirk has said it himself.
Lemme guess it is 9 federation ships of the most popular canon ships with like an extra weapon and console slot and then 1 for romulans. The spread evenly attribute is that a KDF romulan can access the 1 non-federation ship lol.
I highly doubt the tier 5 ships will be compatible or able to keep up with the tier 6's. Reason being is Cryptic had the chance to fill out the KDF for over 3 years and never did so. So why should we believe this would be any different with tier 5 vs tier 6 ships not a damn ounce of trust or faith lol.
To be honest though the whole issue around expansion and gimmick sales of as late and forecasts of the podcasts by Geko himself support the idea of this is something that is more of getting new players to drop cash on the game rather than pleasing ppl who already have bought everything you have to sell to them.
Its pretty visible right now though that this game has hit a snag financially though. The change of EP the very large lack of content as far as seasonal content from season 9 and 9.5 was not much at all. A not very well met dyson pack and then one fed ship for this year feels like the whole player base plays the KDF now lol. Then this thing about oh don't worry we are making your gear obsolete but you can pretend its still viable lol.
If this truly was going to end power creep and such it would be more than 7 to 10 ships spread across the so-called 3 factions. It would be more like 7-10 per faction based on the time between season 8 and expansion 2. Its obvious that season 9 and 9.5 didn't take much time to build being that it was mostly all cut and paste from the doff system and terradome. Back to the ship issue though I don't see how power creep is going to be addressed with so few ships and the fact that ships like majority of the KDF ships are so far behind the rest of the game in many aspects. It is true the KDF ships were such a big threat as far as pvp goes but ever since the start of f2p and the tactics behind marketing these ships changed for the federation and the romulan characters nothing ever was really changed to put the KDF on par.
So the topic isn't excitement but rather is there a point in the mostly KDF invested player having a reason to keep playing?
Edit: Lol reminds me this JHAS doff pack scheme lol. Begs in desperation for money being they probally know expansion 2 is going to be the nail in the coffin for STO. As far as pitchforks go I do not need one because they keep landing on their own pitchforks.
With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost.
...which we hope means it will actually be T6, rather then merely "competitive" with true T6 ships.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Your argument is fine. But you forget the existence of the Tier 5 Retrofit's in the game: Defiant Retrofit, Intrepid Retrofit, and Galaxy Retrofit. All of which are originally Tier 4 ships, yet they exist as full fledged EQUALS to the rest of the Tier 5 ships, such as the Sovereign, Prometheus or Luna Classes. They are not sub-standard or "competitive" to the Tier 5's. They are equals.
While I fully expect many will make the switch to some of Cryptic's designs for Tier 6, there's also the nagging problem of many of Cryptic's designs being considered generally sub-par compared to the canon designs. The "old and busted" may be Tier 5, but they most likely look better than most of the Cryptic designs. From the leaks so far from the convention, I'll fly my Defiant or Excelsior any day, over what has been seen so far of the Tier 6's.
Here's the thing, though. I wouldn't really count that as the same thing people are expecting here. If you go from your original galaxy to the t5 galaxy, you're buying a new ship, it's just the same skin and proportionate stats.
Even if that were the case, those ships are well known for being the subject of PLZ BUFF threads. Nobody except the classic car collector crowd is going to shell out the fleet modules for a galaxy over an avenger, a defiant over a tempest, etc. They're flyable, but I wouldn't call them competitive.
And you gotta look at the rationale behind this, because it's the same here as it will be in the expansion: if you could just stick with your beloved galaxy for the whole game, there wouldn't be demand for any of the half dozen ships they have to pump out. Even if we do get t6 upgrades, they won't be as good as released t6 ships because if they were no one would buy the future t6 stuff and the shareholders would roast the dev team over a spit. That's just a fact of life.
My point is, we're all adults, we know that's going to happen, we don't need to stomp our feet and throw a tantrum and demand our bugships and scimitars keep roflpwning people in kerrat. They've had years now to have earned their 50 dollar /toomanymillionEC price tags back for their owners, buyers remorse stemming from a lack of foresight isn't anyone else's problem. You already got what you paid for, now we're moving on to bigger, better, and hopefully more balanced things than "How to be good in kerrat, Step 1: decide if you want a JHAS or scimitar."
My guess is that the plan for making sure the cash shop and gamble box ships are 'competitive' will involve some item from the Z-store similar to the tune up kit for vehicles in CO.
It will be more interesting to see what they have planned content wise or are we going to be doff/rep grinding our way to 60?
We don't know what that plan is and to be honest, there where simply too many disappointments in the past.
I think he misunderstood. What ACTUALLY happened was that there due to the increasing demand for pitchforks, there are fewer pitchfork SALES. You will have to pay full price now if you want a pitchfork.
Sure, they SAY they have a plan, but notice how it has conveniently failed to materialize. The fact that they feel the need to conceal it proves that this plan is clearly inimical in nature. Clearly this is a ploy designed to trick you into buying the soon-to-be-worthless things, rather than have sales completely flatline for the next two months.
Here's a question: What about us free to players? Are these T6 ships going to cost real money, or are they going have some for those of us unable or unwilling to shell out cash? I have to admit, when I reached L50 for the first time I was pretty disappointed that while, yeah, I got another ship slot I didn't get another ship. I used to be a subscriber, but I don't have the money to be so anymore. I don't want ALL of the new ships to be free, but some would be a nice bone to throw to us.
First off... I am NOT Excited about Delta Rising! At least not in a good way.
And then there is this statement: "...With this in mind, we are dedicated to making sure that players can continue flying the ships they love and still have those ships be competitive at the new level 60 end game. We do not want players to feel that their investment in the current ships is devalued by the expansion, and this is a very challenging thing to do for a game with four years of history since the last level cap increase...." So How are you going to do this exactly?
I've supported you Jerks for a long time. I've spent lots of money buying ships and such. And I have lots of characters and time invested in this game. So I think I, and others like myself, have the Right To KNOW just what you've got planned. Bottom line is that I don't trust you. Seems like you've been nerfing the game into oblivion from my perspective. Part of me wants to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I just can't do that... You have to come clean and tell us what you've got planned.
I envision bugs... bugs everywhere and even more FPS drops in high player zones :mad:
Prove me wrong Cryptic, please fix the current issues before spreading the developers too thing and figure out what went wrong after season 8.5 launched. It was so perfect before all the nerfing and framerate issues that I actually enjoyed the game enough to pay for zen with real money out of my wallet. Since then I have not bought anything. Think of this as constructive critisizm and when you fix those 2 simple issues I will happily open my wallet back up for you if you can make it a top notch game like it was before.
The addons are nifty but try to go into the perpetual battlezones that you all advertised so much and try to not have your framerates drop to like 10 frames per second without requiring a overclocked 4770k or SLI setups.
Other than that, the expansion sounds quite fascinating
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Greywolf Taskforce - Officer of the Fleet
Why then whats the point of doing tier 6. I swear I think some of you have never played any other MMO before.
By your logic all ships should be the same tier then why wasn't tier 1 upgradeable to tier 5 or any other tier for that matter.
Leave the tiers they way are and offer retrofits for some of them in tier 6, and no they are not free you should have to work for them.
If they introduce T6 hero classes (Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, etc.)and other canon ships (Akira, Prometheus, etc.), then great! But if they are just doing T6 on Cryptic designs, then they should have a way so that players can upgrade said classes.
I for one have put over 2000 hours into STO, building my ships and characters just so I can fully enjoy the game just to be told "We are making the ships you spend ages building worse unless you pay us again to make them slightly worse than the new ships we are making".
You were never told that. You're jumping to irrational conclusions.
You were never told that. You're jumping to irrational conclusions.
He seems to be reaching a perfectly rational conclusion to me. Isn't this pretty much what was said in the little that was said, and pretty much exactly what they were strongly implying, but avoided saying outright precisely because Pollyannas like you would naturally overlook it?
He seems to be reaching a perfectly rational conclusion to me. Isn't this pretty much what was said in the little that was said, and pretty much exactly what they were strongly implying, but avoided saying outright precisely because Pollyannas like you would naturally overlook it?
Ok it seems rational thought was left behind with 9.5, I think most people don't realise this game needs money to run, if you don't want to pay for something don't, or go play a console game caus mmo's are geared around cash grabs an "micro" transactions, sorry but its the truth.
If they introduce T6 hero classes (Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, etc.)and other canon ships (Akira, Prometheus, etc.), then great! But if they are just doing T6 on Cryptic designs, then they should have a way so that players can upgrade said classes.
The timeline of Star Trek in this game has gone beyond the Star Trek Series. It is logical to me that as time passes there will be new threats from space traveling species that come into contact with the inhabitants of the 2 Quadrants. The Delta quadrant is new territory and we have not explored the Gamma Q. The only thing that is common with the Star Trek Series is "to go and meet new civilization...to go where we have not gone before."
If by some coincidence a new Star Trek Series (the 'Fourth Generation' as an example) is introduced by those who did the past ones, I am sure there will be more futuristic ships and new friendly as well as belligerent Species to be met. I can't see why many want to stay with their old ships. I, for example, think that most of you would rather have a newer car to drive around, instead of complaining of what would happen to grandpa's classic Cadillac. However, I will consider a retrofitting of the older ships, as that is normally done as time passes to keep them in tune to present reality, i.e. comms, improved shields, engines, cores, etc. as these things happen in real life. The shapes of the ships may change a bit due to new technologies in things like metallurgy etc., but they will still look like Fed ships of different designs. Look at a simple difference in the body of the original Enterprise with that of the Excelsior, and figure out the improvement to those after 100 years. I will, being one who has seen Star Trek since the first one to come out, will certainly want to keep the old ones as well....they may be worth more to a collector, probably of another species, interested in the history of space flight of us hewmons.
Don't worry about it and let's see what they come up with. We are making it much harder for them to develop the game if we keep on harping about what you have now. I still keep the original Porsche 911 which I inherited, which is worth more than the newest model, however, it still looks like a Porsche. Similarly, a new Galaxy XE T6 would still look like a Galaxy. But be ready for some new experimental ships that the F.O.P's members will design to be competitive with those who want us extinct. The Empire will make sure they are up to par, as well.
Comments
totally agree.. id even go a step further and suggest that some of them are maybe
still breast fed! So many people want the insta-instant gratification too, no build up, no
buzz of happy speculation, waiting for little crumbs of info leaked out, no, not good
enough.. to them it must be NOW! THIS INSTANT! NOT A MOMENT LATER
- Abandon the "Tier" system entirely. All ships are level-less, and can be acquired any time you want, regardless of rank.
- Implement Suricata's old "Computer Core" idea, where the Computer Core determines the number of BO slots, their ranks etc.
Ships do not "level up". They get upgraded, via gear (new warpcores, shields, weapons etc). The Tier system was flawed on Day 1. It's time to completely abandon it. Does Cryptic have the [Redacted] to abandon it? I don't think so, but it would be the best solution.
^^ - This. This has been the only true solution to the ship tier system. And frankly fed up that Cryptic refuses to implement it.
CBS Studios doesn't have to justify anything to you. It's their property, not yours.
This is a very important question for this particular player yes.
I am gonna anxiously await the details on this issue. Having said that, here are a few of MY concerns:
.Lockbox and lobi ships. Considering the considerable expense involved in obtaining these ships, I would hope that these ships too would get a free upgrade, just like the JHAS ship is getting.
My future participation in any of these future lockbox events depends on how this is handled.
. C store Ships, - Main question- HOW MUCH to upgrade ?
. What's Cryptic's idea of "competitive"?
This, but at least they're finally talking at us.
At the risk of sounding flippant, I'll be the judge of that.
In honesty, I haven't been lovin the crafting update personally. So I'm a bit cautious with my enthusiasm, at least till some of my questions have been fully answered.
It would be nice not outgrowing our ships and being able to use our starter ship all the way to endgame content. But it's never going to happen for 1 simple reason: "NO T5 CONNIES PERIOD. SO STFU AND STOP ASKING!"~Cryptic
So the reason why our ships can't scale with player rank is because Cryptic isn't allowed to give us endgame levels of specific ships. The Miranda (Fed starter ship) is another I would like to have an endgame version of. Heck you only get that as a starter ship and this is no higher level Miranda you can buy in the c-store or anywhere else in the game.
At this point I've given up all hope of ever having any kind of endgame Constitution class vessel, even if it's a completely original design by Cryptic based on a connie. No hope whatsoever, especially since recently captainsmirk has said it himself.
Lemme guess it is 9 federation ships of the most popular canon ships with like an extra weapon and console slot and then 1 for romulans. The spread evenly attribute is that a KDF romulan can access the 1 non-federation ship lol.
I highly doubt the tier 5 ships will be compatible or able to keep up with the tier 6's. Reason being is Cryptic had the chance to fill out the KDF for over 3 years and never did so. So why should we believe this would be any different with tier 5 vs tier 6 ships not a damn ounce of trust or faith lol.
To be honest though the whole issue around expansion and gimmick sales of as late and forecasts of the podcasts by Geko himself support the idea of this is something that is more of getting new players to drop cash on the game rather than pleasing ppl who already have bought everything you have to sell to them.
Its pretty visible right now though that this game has hit a snag financially though. The change of EP the very large lack of content as far as seasonal content from season 9 and 9.5 was not much at all. A not very well met dyson pack and then one fed ship for this year feels like the whole player base plays the KDF now lol. Then this thing about oh don't worry we are making your gear obsolete but you can pretend its still viable lol.
If this truly was going to end power creep and such it would be more than 7 to 10 ships spread across the so-called 3 factions. It would be more like 7-10 per faction based on the time between season 8 and expansion 2. Its obvious that season 9 and 9.5 didn't take much time to build being that it was mostly all cut and paste from the doff system and terradome. Back to the ship issue though I don't see how power creep is going to be addressed with so few ships and the fact that ships like majority of the KDF ships are so far behind the rest of the game in many aspects. It is true the KDF ships were such a big threat as far as pvp goes but ever since the start of f2p and the tactics behind marketing these ships changed for the federation and the romulan characters nothing ever was really changed to put the KDF on par.
So the topic isn't excitement but rather is there a point in the mostly KDF invested player having a reason to keep playing?
Edit: Lol reminds me this JHAS doff pack scheme lol. Begs in desperation for money being they probally know expansion 2 is going to be the nail in the coffin for STO. As far as pitchforks go I do not need one because they keep landing on their own pitchforks.
It's at the bottom of the Duty Officer Pack Promo article. It says... ...which we hope means it will actually be T6, rather then merely "competitive" with true T6 ships.
Here's the thing, though. I wouldn't really count that as the same thing people are expecting here. If you go from your original galaxy to the t5 galaxy, you're buying a new ship, it's just the same skin and proportionate stats.
Even if that were the case, those ships are well known for being the subject of PLZ BUFF threads. Nobody except the classic car collector crowd is going to shell out the fleet modules for a galaxy over an avenger, a defiant over a tempest, etc. They're flyable, but I wouldn't call them competitive.
And you gotta look at the rationale behind this, because it's the same here as it will be in the expansion: if you could just stick with your beloved galaxy for the whole game, there wouldn't be demand for any of the half dozen ships they have to pump out. Even if we do get t6 upgrades, they won't be as good as released t6 ships because if they were no one would buy the future t6 stuff and the shareholders would roast the dev team over a spit. That's just a fact of life.
My point is, we're all adults, we know that's going to happen, we don't need to stomp our feet and throw a tantrum and demand our bugships and scimitars keep roflpwning people in kerrat. They've had years now to have earned their 50 dollar /toomanymillionEC price tags back for their owners, buyers remorse stemming from a lack of foresight isn't anyone else's problem. You already got what you paid for, now we're moving on to bigger, better, and hopefully more balanced things than "How to be good in kerrat, Step 1: decide if you want a JHAS or scimitar."
It will be more interesting to see what they have planned content wise or are we going to be doff/rep grinding our way to 60?
Sure, they SAY they have a plan, but notice how it has conveniently failed to materialize. The fact that they feel the need to conceal it proves that this plan is clearly inimical in nature. Clearly this is a ploy designed to trick you into buying the soon-to-be-worthless things, rather than have sales completely flatline for the next two months.
Do not fall for this. IT'S A TRAP.
And then there is this statement: "...With this in mind, we are dedicated to making sure that players can continue flying the ships they love and still have those ships be competitive at the new level 60 end game. We do not want players to feel that their investment in the current ships is devalued by the expansion, and this is a very challenging thing to do for a game with four years of history since the last level cap increase...." So How are you going to do this exactly?
I've supported you Jerks for a long time. I've spent lots of money buying ships and such. And I have lots of characters and time invested in this game. So I think I, and others like myself, have the Right To KNOW just what you've got planned. Bottom line is that I don't trust you. Seems like you've been nerfing the game into oblivion from my perspective. Part of me wants to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I just can't do that... You have to come clean and tell us what you've got planned.
Prove me wrong Cryptic, please fix the current issues before spreading the developers too thing and figure out what went wrong after season 8.5 launched. It was so perfect before all the nerfing and framerate issues that I actually enjoyed the game enough to pay for zen with real money out of my wallet. Since then I have not bought anything. Think of this as constructive critisizm and when you fix those 2 simple issues I will happily open my wallet back up for you if you can make it a top notch game like it was before.
The addons are nifty but try to go into the perpetual battlezones that you all advertised so much and try to not have your framerates drop to like 10 frames per second without requiring a overclocked 4770k or SLI setups.
Other than that, the expansion sounds quite fascinating
Greywolf Taskforce - Officer of the Fleet
If they introduce T6 hero classes (Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, etc.)and other canon ships (Akira, Prometheus, etc.), then great! But if they are just doing T6 on Cryptic designs, then they should have a way so that players can upgrade said classes.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
This is what happens when you read too much into things, and trying to see implications where there are none.
Come on Jupiter with a hanger bay:D
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
+1
Fully agree with you.
I concur wholeheartedly.
If by some coincidence a new Star Trek Series (the 'Fourth Generation' as an example) is introduced by those who did the past ones, I am sure there will be more futuristic ships and new friendly as well as belligerent Species to be met. I can't see why many want to stay with their old ships. I, for example, think that most of you would rather have a newer car to drive around, instead of complaining of what would happen to grandpa's classic Cadillac. However, I will consider a retrofitting of the older ships, as that is normally done as time passes to keep them in tune to present reality, i.e. comms, improved shields, engines, cores, etc. as these things happen in real life. The shapes of the ships may change a bit due to new technologies in things like metallurgy etc., but they will still look like Fed ships of different designs. Look at a simple difference in the body of the original Enterprise with that of the Excelsior, and figure out the improvement to those after 100 years. I will, being one who has seen Star Trek since the first one to come out, will certainly want to keep the old ones as well....they may be worth more to a collector, probably of another species, interested in the history of space flight of us hewmons.
Don't worry about it and let's see what they come up with. We are making it much harder for them to develop the game if we keep on harping about what you have now. I still keep the original Porsche 911 which I inherited, which is worth more than the newest model, however, it still looks like a Porsche. Similarly, a new Galaxy XE T6 would still look like a Galaxy. But be ready for some new experimental ships that the F.O.P's members will design to be competitive with those who want us extinct. The Empire will make sure they are up to par, as well.