By your definition of what's written in the TOS and EULA (I'd wager you haven't read it all), then your WoW comparison falls flat on it's face as well. The avatars you have, the gear you acquire. They aren't yours. You're just "leasing" it.
And for the record, the ship IS your avatar. It's been stated repeatedly by devs, whenever the topic of piloting your ship from the bridge (a la Bridge Commander) has come up. Can't pilot your ship from the bridge, since your "ship avatar" does not exist while you are on the bridge. You are either the ground avatar, or the ship. Not both at the same time.
And one last time; A WoW expansion does not force you to play a brand new class, just because they increased the level cap. If you play a Warrior, you are always that Warrior, unless you reroll your character from Level 1. By your logic, when Delta Rising hits, we would no longer have our ground based avatars either. We would need to "upgrade" our avatars to a higher tier, to fully use the stuff we already have.
A ship is an avatar (repeated ad nauseum), you equip new gear you acquire into the various slots (engines, shields, deflector, weapons, devices, consoles). Your skills are tied to a combination of your chosen Career (Captain skills), and the chosen skills on your Bridge Officers. And due to the poor method it's been setup in STO, you can't always have the same Bridge Officer skill setup, no matter how hard you try.
It's fine that YOU don't want to be able to fly the older designs (old being ships like ODYSSEY, which is virtually brand new). That doesn't mean you speak for the majority. In fact, I'd wager the majority plays STO because they want to fly the ships of their choice. Not because YOU or anyone at Cryptic tells them to fly one specific ship. Period.
Nobody is saying that you can't fly the ship of your choice.
However, upgrading all of the Tier Five ships to Tier Six defeats the purpose of new ships at a new tier level. The only possible exception, in my opinion, would be the lock box ships, considering how pricey they can be.
People throw around the term "obsolete" like a baby seal in a shark feeding frenzy, without knowing what it means. Even if the T5 ships get no boost in base stats, they would be, in no way, "obsolete". They can be upgraded with higher grade consoles, equipment, and weapons, and still be viable at endgame. They'll continue to be very good (if not downright excellent) vessels, just not at the top of the heap anymore.
The problem is that some people want to be that "special snowflake", and feel like a big shot by having what they perceive as being the "best". It's all about "keeping up with the Jones" and the e-peen. If you fall into that trap, then you are a sucker, plain and simple.
I, for one, will continue to use my T5 ships. The only thing that I will have to do is eventually upgrade the equipment. Unless, or course, I see a new T6 ship that catches my fancy and I buy it. But not because I have some false belief that my T5s are somehow "obsolete" and complete TRIBBLE.
Let me phrase it in a way that you should understand twoblindmonks:
If you bought your Death Knight or Monk class in WoW, paid real money for it. Or grind gold in the game, and converted to a Blizzard-type currency and bought it, doesn't matter. "Time is money" to some, so grinding is just as valid of a money currency as cold hard cash. Would you not balk at the thought of Blizzard telling you; "Okay guys, next expansion.. Death Knights and Monks will be inferior to our other classes. We have a brand new class lined up for this expansion, and that class will be superior in every way."
I think you would... Which is exactly what Cryptic is telling us, unless the current Tier 5 ships are FULLY upgradeable to Tier 6. Or getting rid of the tier-system entirely, thou I suspect it's easier to allow full upgrades.
However, upgrading all of the Tier Five ships to Tier Six defeats the purpose of new ships at a new tier level. The only possible exception, in my opinion, would be the lock box ships, considering how pricey they can be.
Not necessarily. Why not make T5 ships upgradable to full and complete T6 for around 80% of the price of a T6. That doesn't defeat the sole purpose of T6 ships which is making money since almost the same amount of moeny would be made - even more considering someone buys the T5 ship to upgarde it.
There are several groups of player views on this topic that I see - I'm in the group that doesn't mind paying for what can be called a natural progression as long as that means I can keep the ships I love in the same weightclass as any other end-game ship. I have multiple chars because each one of them commands a certain ship class throughout their entire STO life, and I don't want to be forced to change the visual appearence of those ships in order to have the top-notch abilities in the game. Especially for something as unapealling (to me) as those new Fed. concepts.
And looking at it realistically - we're in a game where ENT era ships pass as lockbox quality. There's not a single logical reason to restrict T5 ships from complete T6 upgrades if people are willing to pay good Zen for it.
I can tell you right off the bat that Cryptic has a waaay better chance of selling me a T6 Galaxy than those new T6 ships. Why reject that money? For arbitrary decisions?
I think right now the only ones truly excited about Delta Rising is Cryptic with the thought of all the money they will make on the new T6 ships... which by judging from of Neverwinters' recent pricing, will be about $50 - $75 per ship. While I understand that the Cryptic need to make money and that is cool. However, I heard the stuff they talked about at STLV ..while the stuff they teased look cool... i did not see anything that got me as a player excited. I did not hear things like.... territorial control PVP, larger adventure zones, new exploration. Basically I am seeing a lot of new systems that can be monetized again, which is fine... but what is upcoming gameplay?
I also think this is where Cryptic and the player base is misaligned. Since S9 (and a before) Cryptic keeps pushing things that are designed around monetization first and "fun" second. The new crafting is a perfect example. The dev must love it. It's a great dil sink.... but can anyone honesty say crafting is now "fun"?
"Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
I think right now the only ones truly excited about Delta Rising is Cryptic with the thought of all the money they will make on the new T6 ships... which by judging from of Neverwinters' recent pricing, will be about $50 - $75 per ship. While I understand that the Cryptic need to make money and that is cool. However, I heard the stuff they talked about at STLV ..while the stuff they teased look cool... i did not see anything that got me as a player excited. I did not hear things like.... territorial control PVP, larger adventure zones, new exploration. Basically I am seeing a lot of new systems that can be monetized again, which is fine... but what is upcoming gameplay?
I also think this is where Cryptic and the player base is misaligned. Since S9 (and a before) Cryptic keeps pushing things that are designed around monetization first and "fun" second. The new crafting is a perfect example. The dev must love it. It's a great dil sink.... but can anyone honesty say crafting is now "fun"?
There's a difference still between Neverwinter and STO. Neverwinter has no subscription model, so they have to make money elsewhere. The recent pricing you're talking about is for DLC that is exclusive (yes, keep in mind that word) access to a race. The best analogy I can think of that would even come close to this would be the Lifetime subscription purchase which gives players exclusive access to Liberated Borg.
We're lucky that the devs didn't go this route last year with LoR and lock Romulan Republic behind one of these DLC packs. Then again, STO is older than Neverwinter and has Subscriptions to help fund the game, in addition to lockbox draw while Neverwinter just has those packs and the lockboxes. I'd say we're better off with STO.
I think its funny how now its apparently 2410 not the actual year which is 2413 but hey maybe the game has been in a temporal loop of some sort or thos pesky Q have been having way too much tequila lol.
I wonder why we are not it seems getting a radical upgrade to the dated graphics engine and avatar creation systems in the upcoming season, but instead just another load of ships which as yet we don't know how much more power creep they will add to the game? Either way every player will have to decide do they think that spending money on the new tier of ships is worth it to them or not. Its funny what they call excitement everyone else would call caution or intrepidation lol.
Excitement is a nice word for it.
Well at least you finally came out and stated you have no idea how you are going to pull this off
PS With all the "excitement" about details for the T5 folks don't forget about info for the T4 Scrubs, Gift Ship Drivers, and Not a quite a Fleet Ship drivers. Were wondering what the future brings too with some of the same questions.
I disagree with XIV stuff and T6 ships.
I think that would be fine enough to let XII equipment and current favorite ship converted into a standard 5.5 as it was on patrol escort fleet . Indeed, some ships are already at least 5.7 such as scimitar , Xindi ships and Nicor .
Some current equipment resemble not a mark XII, but a mk XIV or even XVI - fleet consoles or crafting consoles ( f.e. that one with +85% turn and resist).
The most people want flying with their favourite ships from tv show not with any "bottle opener".
And if one of my seven lock-box ships becomes obsolete for pvp , probably i'll get angry and I do not buy any one else.
First off... I am NOT Excited about Delta Rising! At least not in a good way.
And then there is this statement: "...With this in mind, we are dedicated to making sure that players can continue flying the ships they love and still have those ships be competitive at the new level 60 end game. We do not want players to feel that their investment in the current ships is devalued by the expansion, and this is a very challenging thing to do for a game with four years of history since the last level cap increase...." So How are you going to do this exactly?
I've supported you Jerks for a long time. I've spent lots of money buying ships and such. And I have lots of characters and time invested in this game. So I think I, and others like myself, have the Right To KNOW just what you've got planned. Bottom line is that I don't trust you. Seems like you've been nerfing the game into oblivion from my perspective. Part of me wants to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I just can't do that... You have to come clean and tell us what you've got planned.
Yeah, calling them jerks is going to get you to have your opinion looked at faster. [/sarcasm]
That's the whole point of us playing a Star Trek game. If you're playing Star Trek Online solely because it's a MMO, then please leave. Your kind is not wanted. People like you are why people like JJ Abrams is trying to change Star Trek into something more "popular" and dumbed-down for people that can't handle the episodic content of the first 4 series.
Hold on, so if someone's playing the game since it's an MMO has to leave the game because you think it's reserved only for Star Trek fans? Are you really serious about that statement? I'm sorry to say this but you really need an attitude adjustment. You, chiefbrex, come off as a rude person.
I am still fairly new to the game as I have only been here 6 months or so. Tomorrow I should be able to buy the last fleet ship module I need to buy a Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier. Because of this announcement, I am holding off on buying because I do not want to risk it becoming outdated too soon. So far, all I have are my free ships.
I guess I will be waiting 3 weeks to see what they will do with that ship.
CRYPTIC DEVS YOU JERKS!!! you still havent put the most single most important thing on ANY I DO MEAN ANY!!! starship.......our molded plastic cupholders....how else are we not going to spill our drinks in our laps while we blast stuffs in the delta quad
You give us the delta quad new level cap and new tier ships but you keep forgetting the molded plastic cupholders ...well i for one REFUSE to leave ESD without one
Anyways im looking forward to this expansion where STO is going is a good place ive been worried after 9.5 which i still detest but the expansion is going to be great.
anyways cryptic good job and all ....BUT NEXT TIME DONT FORGET OUR MOLDED PLASTIC CUPHOLDERS!!!!! LOL
CRYPTIC DEVS YOU JERKS!!! you still havent put the most single most important thing on ANY I DO MEAN ANY!!! starship.......our molded plastic cupholders....how else are we not going to spill our drinks in our laps while we blast stuffs in the delta quad
You give us the delta quad new level cap and new tier ships but you keep forgetting the molded plastic cupholders ...well i for one REFUSE to leave ESD without one
Anyways im looking forward to this expansion where STO is going is a good place ive been worried after 9.5 which i still detest but the expansion is going to be great.
anyways cryptic good job and all ....BUT NEXT TIME DONT FORGET OUR MOLDED PLASTIC CUPHOLDERS!!!!! LOL
Now this is slightly offensive! Do you not realise that a cupholder will put so many Yeoman out of works that it is not funny. I think ALL Yeoman should be forced to wear high heels (regardless of gender) so when inertial dampers go on the fritz they get to spill the coffee and not leave it to a poorly engineered plastic cup holder to do the job!
Even though I am very hyped up and very excited for delta rising.. I just hope that we can still be able to use our tier 5 ship because I really don't feel like paying for another ship such as tier 6. So am wondering if there is a possibility that with tier 5 ship it would be possible to upgrade some of our space sets to make it slightly like tier 6 ship?
Well, "excitement" isn't exactly the word I'd have chosen. More like 'trepidation' or 'dread' for most players. We've all seen how the doff and crafting systems were 'improved'.
But let the PWE/Cryptic spin machine do what it does. That phrase also informs me on how much they will listen to player feedback (none).
To be honest, I am looking forward to the new Tier 6 ships. Also, if they don't turn the upgrades into an outrageous price, then it has the potential to ne awesome.
I honestly don't understand why so many are upset with the T6 ships, as long as the T5 will truly be comparable. If they do the upgrades right, it will end up making the T5 and T6 ships no different than the newer T5 ships they have been releasing over the past year.
A new ship comes out with a new console, or ability, and since it is T5, the only complaint is if it is OP, especially in PVP. However, if T5 ships were comparable to the T6, but with only a few differences in the newer ones, then it will ne the same thing.
I don't know how the upgrades will happen, or if it will just be turned into a money making, or Dilithium sink like other things. All I know is I look forward to seeing if they do this in a way to help or hurt the game. It has so much potential, and I am hopeful.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
I don't care if we have to pay, but the old ships need to have a way to become truly tier 6, not just competitive.
Agreed if I cant slap a Sao Paulo or Tempest Skin onto the new T6 ships I wont be buying them. Simple as that. Nor will I buy this supposed upgrade for competitiveness. Since it all sounds too good to be true.
I see this argument a lot. How much cash money did I pay for my ships? I've got quite a few too. The answer is none. I haven't paid money for any zen at all. Yet I've got lots of zen store ships, fleet ships, even a few lockbox ships and lobi items.
People pay cash for convenience, not as the only path to obtaining anything in this game. You don't have to pay a dime.
Honestly, I sometimes feel guilty for getting all that I get without paying Cryptic anything. But if you're willing to invest time, just like in any other MMO out there, you can get what you want in the game.
Wrong. While you might not have paid for that ship. Someone else did. That Zen didnt magically appear out of no where. Some one somewhere put it up for a trade. Your example is flawed. Simple as that.
Theyre your main character. Your own Humaniod Avatar has less facetime in this game then your ship. Even the Devs acknowledge your ships are an extension of your character. Not gear.
Erm, or maybe you could just buy more ****ing ship slots?
Do you realise how over entitled your post even sounds???? OMFG, it made my blood boil. Its a F2P game.
They already kindly gave us free ships slots more than once as it is, put your hand in your pocket if you want room for T6 ships as well. Its not their responsibility to make sure you have enough slots for a certain number of ships.
Jesus Christ, these forums amaze me sometimes.
You should go take a blood pressure pill or something. Youre getting too upset over the opinions of people with a right to them.
Well, "excitement" isn't exactly the word I'd have chosen. More like 'trepidation' or 'dread' for most players. We've all seen how the doff and crafting systems were 'improved'.
But let the PWE/Cryptic spin machine do what it does. That phrase also informs me on how much they will listen to player feedback (none).
Is there a business out there that will relate negative words to their product though...?
Science Ships are "competitive" with escorts, but they aren't the same. Competitive isn't a bad word, it just means that while T5 ships will not be made obsolete by T6, T6 will bring some unique mechanic unique to them to make them an interesting alternative to what we already have.
this blog doesn't answer the question of what will happen fully, infact next to no information other then you know we feel everything will be devalued
No but its not a blog that's in any way trying to give a full rundown of what's to come. Its trying to provide a basic roadmap so a few people can turn the panic down from 11 (assuming they have an interest in anything else.) As this blog explicitly states, details in the next three weeks.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
so what will the difference be between a t5 and t6 ship?
A few ideas:
- More Shields (easily done on t5 ships)
- More hull (easily done on t5 ships)
- More console slots (easily done on t5 ships)
- More weapon slots
- a build in tactical, science or engineer ability
If T6 ships get more console slots then a T5 should get it aswell also the first 2 points aswell.
The other 2 are up for debate, they need something more or nobody will purchase T6 ships.
Perfectworld:
My wallet has just put you on indefinite probation!!!!
Comments
Nobody is saying that you can't fly the ship of your choice.
However, upgrading all of the Tier Five ships to Tier Six defeats the purpose of new ships at a new tier level. The only possible exception, in my opinion, would be the lock box ships, considering how pricey they can be.
People throw around the term "obsolete" like a baby seal in a shark feeding frenzy, without knowing what it means. Even if the T5 ships get no boost in base stats, they would be, in no way, "obsolete". They can be upgraded with higher grade consoles, equipment, and weapons, and still be viable at endgame. They'll continue to be very good (if not downright excellent) vessels, just not at the top of the heap anymore.
The problem is that some people want to be that "special snowflake", and feel like a big shot by having what they perceive as being the "best". It's all about "keeping up with the Jones" and the e-peen. If you fall into that trap, then you are a sucker, plain and simple.
I, for one, will continue to use my T5 ships. The only thing that I will have to do is eventually upgrade the equipment. Unless, or course, I see a new T6 ship that catches my fancy and I buy it. But not because I have some false belief that my T5s are somehow "obsolete" and complete TRIBBLE.
Use your heads people.
If you bought your Death Knight or Monk class in WoW, paid real money for it. Or grind gold in the game, and converted to a Blizzard-type currency and bought it, doesn't matter. "Time is money" to some, so grinding is just as valid of a money currency as cold hard cash. Would you not balk at the thought of Blizzard telling you; "Okay guys, next expansion.. Death Knights and Monks will be inferior to our other classes. We have a brand new class lined up for this expansion, and that class will be superior in every way."
I think you would... Which is exactly what Cryptic is telling us, unless the current Tier 5 ships are FULLY upgradeable to Tier 6. Or getting rid of the tier-system entirely, thou I suspect it's easier to allow full upgrades.
Not necessarily. Why not make T5 ships upgradable to full and complete T6 for around 80% of the price of a T6. That doesn't defeat the sole purpose of T6 ships which is making money since almost the same amount of moeny would be made - even more considering someone buys the T5 ship to upgarde it.
There are several groups of player views on this topic that I see - I'm in the group that doesn't mind paying for what can be called a natural progression as long as that means I can keep the ships I love in the same weightclass as any other end-game ship. I have multiple chars because each one of them commands a certain ship class throughout their entire STO life, and I don't want to be forced to change the visual appearence of those ships in order to have the top-notch abilities in the game. Especially for something as unapealling (to me) as those new Fed. concepts.
And looking at it realistically - we're in a game where ENT era ships pass as lockbox quality. There's not a single logical reason to restrict T5 ships from complete T6 upgrades if people are willing to pay good Zen for it.
I can tell you right off the bat that Cryptic has a waaay better chance of selling me a T6 Galaxy than those new T6 ships. Why reject that money? For arbitrary decisions?
I also think this is where Cryptic and the player base is misaligned. Since S9 (and a before) Cryptic keeps pushing things that are designed around monetization first and "fun" second. The new crafting is a perfect example. The dev must love it. It's a great dil sink.... but can anyone honesty say crafting is now "fun"?
The Galaxy-class issue has different complications altogether. CBS aren't blocking that, it's a Developer issue.
But enough of this. Back to the matter at hand. Not even a Friday Screenshot?
There's a difference still between Neverwinter and STO. Neverwinter has no subscription model, so they have to make money elsewhere. The recent pricing you're talking about is for DLC that is exclusive (yes, keep in mind that word) access to a race. The best analogy I can think of that would even come close to this would be the Lifetime subscription purchase which gives players exclusive access to Liberated Borg.
We're lucky that the devs didn't go this route last year with LoR and lock Romulan Republic behind one of these DLC packs. Then again, STO is older than Neverwinter and has Subscriptions to help fund the game, in addition to lockbox draw while Neverwinter just has those packs and the lockboxes. I'd say we're better off with STO.
I wonder why we are not it seems getting a radical upgrade to the dated graphics engine and avatar creation systems in the upcoming season, but instead just another load of ships which as yet we don't know how much more power creep they will add to the game? Either way every player will have to decide do they think that spending money on the new tier of ships is worth it to them or not. Its funny what they call excitement everyone else would call caution or intrepidation lol.
Well at least you finally came out and stated you have no idea how you are going to pull this off
PS With all the "excitement" about details for the T5 folks don't forget about info for the T4 Scrubs, Gift Ship Drivers, and Not a quite a Fleet Ship drivers. Were wondering what the future brings too with some of the same questions.
I think that would be fine enough to let XII equipment and current favorite ship converted into a standard 5.5 as it was on patrol escort fleet . Indeed, some ships are already at least 5.7 such as scimitar , Xindi ships and Nicor .
Some current equipment resemble not a mark XII, but a mk XIV or even XVI - fleet consoles or crafting consoles ( f.e. that one with +85% turn and resist).
The most people want flying with their favourite ships from tv show not with any "bottle opener".
And if one of my seven lock-box ships becomes obsolete for pvp , probably i'll get angry and I do not buy any one else.
Hold on, so if someone's playing the game since it's an MMO has to leave the game because you think it's reserved only for Star Trek fans? Are you really serious about that statement? I'm sorry to say this but you really need an attitude adjustment. You, chiefbrex, come off as a rude person.
I guess I will be waiting 3 weeks to see what they will do with that ship.
You give us the delta quad new level cap and new tier ships but you keep forgetting the molded plastic cupholders ...well i for one REFUSE to leave ESD without one
Anyways im looking forward to this expansion where STO is going is a good place ive been worried after 9.5 which i still detest but the expansion is going to be great.
anyways cryptic good job and all ....BUT NEXT TIME DONT FORGET OUR MOLDED PLASTIC CUPHOLDERS!!!!! LOL
Now this is slightly offensive! Do you not realise that a cupholder will put so many Yeoman out of works that it is not funny. I think ALL Yeoman should be forced to wear high heels (regardless of gender) so when inertial dampers go on the fritz they get to spill the coffee and not leave it to a poorly engineered plastic cup holder to do the job!
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
With the creation of the tier 6 ships will romulans (and remans) now get to fly tier 5 ally ships ??
Face palming the enemy one at a time.
Well, "excitement" isn't exactly the word I'd have chosen. More like 'trepidation' or 'dread' for most players. We've all seen how the doff and crafting systems were 'improved'.
But let the PWE/Cryptic spin machine do what it does. That phrase also informs me on how much they will listen to player feedback (none).
I honestly don't understand why so many are upset with the T6 ships, as long as the T5 will truly be comparable. If they do the upgrades right, it will end up making the T5 and T6 ships no different than the newer T5 ships they have been releasing over the past year.
A new ship comes out with a new console, or ability, and since it is T5, the only complaint is if it is OP, especially in PVP. However, if T5 ships were comparable to the T6, but with only a few differences in the newer ones, then it will ne the same thing.
I don't know how the upgrades will happen, or if it will just be turned into a money making, or Dilithium sink like other things. All I know is I look forward to seeing if they do this in a way to help or hurt the game. It has so much potential, and I am hopeful.
Agreed if I cant slap a Sao Paulo or Tempest Skin onto the new T6 ships I wont be buying them. Simple as that. Nor will I buy this supposed upgrade for competitiveness. Since it all sounds too good to be true.
Uhhhh.
Hmm.
Wrong. While you might not have paid for that ship. Someone else did. That Zen didnt magically appear out of no where. Some one somewhere put it up for a trade. Your example is flawed. Simple as that.
Theyre your main character. Your own Humaniod Avatar has less facetime in this game then your ship. Even the Devs acknowledge your ships are an extension of your character. Not gear.
You should go take a blood pressure pill or something. Youre getting too upset over the opinions of people with a right to them.
Which they can easily do on the backs of the lottery participants. Stop acting like their greed is valid.
Edit: Well besides these guys.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
No but its not a blog that's in any way trying to give a full rundown of what's to come. Its trying to provide a basic roadmap so a few people can turn the panic down from 11 (assuming they have an interest in anything else.) As this blog explicitly states, details in the next three weeks.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
A few ideas:
- More Shields (easily done on t5 ships)
- More hull (easily done on t5 ships)
- More console slots (easily done on t5 ships)
- More weapon slots
- a build in tactical, science or engineer ability
If T6 ships get more console slots then a T5 should get it aswell also the first 2 points aswell.
The other 2 are up for debate, they need something more or nobody will purchase T6 ships.