It has dawned on me that there is one point no one has touched on yet.
Crafting isn't a rep, it's a persevering part of the game. We aren't going to be waiting around every season for another crafting school like we do for reps, there's not nearly as much pressure to rush crafting.
But, as seasons go on, it's likely that things will be added to crafting schools. New specials and whatnot. They probably want it to take a while to max a school so everyone can't just be fully maxed and have the new thing the first day it comes out. This grind has to last because there's stuff they want to add in in the long term.
So if a new beam school item comes out in a few months, and you're one of the people who maxed beams first, your grind becomes that much more valuable because you'll be the first one selling the new beam on the market.
In this case, it would actually make your grind an investment. There's opportunity here, unlike in reps, for your expended effort to become more valuable.
And I would hope that the length of the grind is also a statement of confidence in the game's lifespan.
But that's just me speculating optimistically. Gotta consider everything.
It quickly has gone from a semi-interesting grind - to a years long -full-time JOB - sorry - no thanks!!!:(
Yep, no more crafting for me. I had seven toons ready to specialise. Heck, I may have spent Zen on one of the new ones. Now I won't bother with it at all.
It has dawned on me that there is one point no one has touched on yet.
Crafting isn't a rep, it's a persevering part of the game. We aren't going to be waiting around every season for another crafting school like we do for reps, there's not nearly as much pressure to rush crafting.
But, as seasons go on, it's likely that things will be added to crafting schools. New specials and whatnot. They probably want it to take a while to max a school so everyone can't just be fully maxed and have the new thing the first day it comes out. This grind has to last because there's stuff they want to add in in the long term.
So if a new beam school item comes out in a few months, and you're one of the people who maxed beams first, your grind becomes that much more valuable because you'll be the first one selling the new beam on the market.
In this case, it would actually make your grind an investment. There's opportunity here, unlike in reps, for your expended effort to become more valuable.
And I would hope that the length of the grind is also a statement of confidence in the game's lifespan.
But that's just me speculating optimistically. Gotta consider everything.
There is no indication for that. Actually both Reputation (e.g. still no cores for old reps) and Fleet (new holdings for new items) suggest the opposite. Unless Cryptic states something else, "what you see is what you'll get" is what to be expected.
There is no indication for that. Actually both Reputation (e.g. still no cores for old reps) and Fleet (new holdings for new items) suggest the opposite. Unless Cryptic states something else, "what you see is what you'll get" is what to be expected.
So you don't think we'll eventually get secondary deflectors and cruiser comm arrays to craft when they're added?
They'd only have more appeal to gain from adding more things to the craftable options. They don't get anything out of pulling people back to old reps and away from the new shiny stuff.
I really don't get why they didn't give aegis a core though.
Seriously, every set is a four piece now, you're revamping crafting and want to make the crafting set you're also revamping stick out, but you don't bother bumping it up to a 4 pc too?
Wow, this crafting going to be like other online games methods. Takes to long to craft or school for R&D. I'll wait until the dust settles before I start one of those projects. Focus more on Finishing 8742, Romulan and Voth daily tier grind.
Really need to fix DOF assignments so the wrong DOF doesn't get selected or you just can add the right one.
I posted issue with the Risa LC and Romulan faction using Green for the main 3 engines where two engines were not showing the green trail one was red the other one was like yellow instead of all 3 plus the two on the fins should be all green.
Can someone in DEV take a look at that issue? Thanks..
So you don't think we'll eventually get secondary deflectors and cruiser comm arrays to craft when they're added?
They'd only have more appeal to gain from adding more things to the craftable options. They don't get anything out of pulling people back to old reps and away from the new shiny stuff.
I don't give a damn about crafting, but I'll reply to this. Yes, you'll probably get secondary deflectors, kits. But they'll get their own new crafting schools. Rejoice!
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
So you don't think we'll eventually get secondary deflectors and cruiser comm arrays to craft when they're added?
Sure, sec defs, kits, warpcores; they'll be added. As new schools. Fleet is in this regard the blueprint: Also a major time and ressource sink - but did we get cores added to our Starbase eng facility? No. Instead we got not one, but two new holdings to grind for. Crafting will be the same. New schools for new items. Which is one more important reason to try to stop Cryptic now in what they're currently doing - seven schools each taking a year will just be the beginning.
It's pretty scary that some people have already hit lvl 15 in some schools - the amount of dilithium they must have blown is just silly. Must have spent like 1.5 million refined dilthium or like 10,000 zen worth just to get one school up.
I guess it will pay off in EC for those lucky guys now as they will have a monopoly on the market for a couple of months.
Sure, sec defs, kits, warpcores; they'll be added. As new schools. Fleet is in this regard the blueprint: Also a major time and ressource sink - but did we get cores added to our Starbase eng facility? No. Instead we got not one, but two new holdings to grind for. Crafting will be the same. New schools for new items. Which is one more important reason to try to stop Cryptic now in what they're currently doing - seven schools each taking a year will just be the beginning.
I don't disagree with that sentiment but I would caution you against hyperbole.
You make it sound like a seven year affair. It may take a year to do one school using only the 20 hour project, but you get multiple slots. You can do more than one school at a time, or you could buffer your 20 hour project with more of the smaller regular ones.
Just wanted to lend my voice to the growing protest to leave R&D 20-hour assignments the way they are. This transparently heartless and completely pointless "fix" does nothing positive for our gameplay and is absolutely ridiculous. Please rescind this "patch" and allow us to run whatever research assignments we wish.
Resolved an issue which was allowing players to run multiple Research Training projects from the same school simultaneously.
Only 1 Research Training project can be run at a time per school.
Wow the devs killed R&D not even 1 week after release. (not that it had a good chance to get alive in the first place )
Congratulations, lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
It's pretty scary that some people have already hit lvl 15 in some schools - the amount of dilithium they must have blown is just silly. Must have spent like 1.5 million refined dilthium or like 10,000 zen worth just to get one school up.
I guess it will pay off in EC for those lucky guys now as they will have a monopoly on the market for a couple of months.
They would had to have spent about 1,890,000 dil just to reach Level 15.
I've never complained on the forums before but you guys should leave crafting the way it is. Having to do a single 20 hour project per school for 100+ days is ****ing stupid and crafting will be in the same state as it was before the revamp since no one will even bother with it. The reputation grinds are repetitive enough but this "patch" just ruins it.
[*]Resolved an issue which was allowing players to run multiple Research Training projects from the same school simultaneously.
[*]Only 1 Research Training project can be run at a time per school.
I know this probably wasn't your call, but can you run it up the chain that with so many monetization mechanics at work in the new system, imposing additional time gates after launch doesn't make this look like you "resolved an issue". Instead, it makes it look like not enough people were spending dilithium to bypass the timers and you are further time gating and further monetizing the system. The Research Training project already rewards exactly half as much as running standard crafting assignments. With the perception that crafting is unattainable, or simply a "blatant cash grab", you are actually losing out on potential profits that the system could provide.
If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they won't consider spending dilithium to advance.
If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they also won't see the need for crafting doffs.
If most players do not see the need for crafting doffs, they will not prioritize purchasing Master Keys and opening lock boxes for the purpose of crafting doffs.
If most players do not see the need for crafting doffs, they will not need doff Roster space for crafting doffs.
If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they won't actually bother to level their Crafting Schools.
If most players do not bother to level their Crafting Schools, they will not get to the point of spending dilithium on Very Rare components.
If most players do not bother to level their Crafting Schools, they will not get to the point of needing Very Rare materials for Very Rare components.
If most players do not need Very Rare materials, they do not need to purchase the C-Store materials pack for Very Rare materials.
If most players do not need Very Rare materials, they do not need to run less populated queued missions for a chance at Very Rare materials.
The general gist of it is... time-gating as heavily as the current system does is hurting your bottom line and negating your attempts to get players back into the less popular queued missions. Please do not implement this change, or revert the change to allow running multiples of the Research Training project if it cannot be removed from the Patch. You are trying to make money off of the crafting revamp, which is fair, but this really does look like... well...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I've never complained on the forums before but you guys should leave crafting the way it is. Having to do a single 20 hour project per school for 100+ days is ****ing stupid and crafting will be in the same state as it was before the revamp since no one will even bother with it. The reputation grinds are repetitive enough but this "patch" just ruins it.
I'm not going to question on the patch, in fact I feel stupid for not noticing that you could multiple train. I'd be at Level 5 already. :P
They would had to have spent about 1,890,000 dil just to reach Level 15.
Nearly 1.9 mil.
That's too rich for my blood.
1.89 million *per school* to level 15. Seven schools, soon to be nine once they add kits and [redacted], and that's 17,010,000 dilithium for one person to be able to craft all of the level 15 specials.
That is a fleet starbase worth of dil input per player.
I wrote out a whole long reply but I can't bring myself to post it. This is a slap in the face. I would love it so much if the entire playerbase just quit R&D and no one touched it so the entire system just ends up being a waste.
Slap in the face? More like a kick in the balls.
Seriously, devs. What in Spock's beard are you all doing over there? Being able to slot the 'easy' crafting thing multiple times in the same category is the ONLY thing that makes it reasonable to actually skill up.
And then you do this?
...I don't know what you're all doing over there. I mean seriously. I guess you DON'T want us to spend Dilithium crafting end game stuff at max level for the next 6 months.
Seriously, devs. What in Spock's beard are you all doing over there? Being able to slot the 'easy' crafting thing multiple times in the same category is the ONLY thing that makes it reasonable to actually skill up.
And then you do this?
...I don't know what you're all doing over there. I mean seriously. I guess you DON'T want us to spend Dilithium crafting end game stuff at max level for the next 6 months.
Under the current system, it would have still required more than a year to max out all the schools. Seems a year is a short timeframe for them and they expect us all to be around 2-3 years from now clicking away at crafting assignments.
With apologies to sirboulevard, but I'm borrowing his post from elsewhere:
If anyone wants the math on this:
2,000,000 EXP per school, 7 schools and 6K daily.
2Mil * 7 = 14,000,000 14Mil/6K = 2333.3 Days or 6.4 Years (aka after STO's 11th Aniversary) 2Mil/6K = 333.33 Days or 11.1 Months to max out ONE school.
Now of course this calculating at only one project slot, but considering the 5th slot doesn't open up until one school is at Lv 15, we're still talking YEARS to max out the system.
Cryptic, re-read the above and tell us with a straight face that this is a good idea, or accept that you've seriously messed up your math and need to fix it quick smart.
With apologies to sirboulevard, but I'm borrowing his post from elsewhere:
Cryptic, re-read the above and tell us with a straight face that this is a good idea, or accept that you've seriously messed up your math and need to fix it quick smart.
You forgot, they supposedly have plans to add another school for Kits. Add 2mil more!
But in all honesty, I can't complain about the 20hr project in means of leveling up. It's literally just a click and only requires to borrow a R Lab DOFF and take 1 common mat (which easily can be replace in the 45 min DOFF mission). And it takes 25 days to reach Level 15 for a single school. And we will mostly have 4 slots unlocked, which means people (who grinded by this method) will have half their schools unlocked within a month. All by clicking 1 button per day.
You need to rerun the numbers again - it'll take far far FAR more experience than that to hit level 15.
-puts tin foil hat on- It could just be me but I think PWE want this game to fail or something because it taking players from their game PWI or something -take off tin foil hat-
Sound crazy but hey it not my foot that going get shot.
Comments
It quickly has gone from a semi-interesting grind - to a years long -full-time JOB - sorry - no thanks!!!:(
Crafting isn't a rep, it's a persevering part of the game. We aren't going to be waiting around every season for another crafting school like we do for reps, there's not nearly as much pressure to rush crafting.
But, as seasons go on, it's likely that things will be added to crafting schools. New specials and whatnot. They probably want it to take a while to max a school so everyone can't just be fully maxed and have the new thing the first day it comes out. This grind has to last because there's stuff they want to add in in the long term.
So if a new beam school item comes out in a few months, and you're one of the people who maxed beams first, your grind becomes that much more valuable because you'll be the first one selling the new beam on the market.
In this case, it would actually make your grind an investment. There's opportunity here, unlike in reps, for your expended effort to become more valuable.
And I would hope that the length of the grind is also a statement of confidence in the game's lifespan.
But that's just me speculating optimistically. Gotta consider everything.
Yep, no more crafting for me. I had seven toons ready to specialise. Heck, I may have spent Zen on one of the new ones. Now I won't bother with it at all.
So you don't think we'll eventually get secondary deflectors and cruiser comm arrays to craft when they're added?
They'd only have more appeal to gain from adding more things to the craftable options. They don't get anything out of pulling people back to old reps and away from the new shiny stuff.
I really don't get why they didn't give aegis a core though.
Seriously, every set is a four piece now, you're revamping crafting and want to make the crafting set you're also revamping stick out, but you don't bother bumping it up to a 4 pc too?
Come on.
Really need to fix DOF assignments so the wrong DOF doesn't get selected or you just can add the right one.
I posted issue with the Risa LC and Romulan faction using Green for the main 3 engines where two engines were not showing the green trail one was red the other one was like yellow instead of all 3 plus the two on the fins should be all green.
Can someone in DEV take a look at that issue? Thanks..
Time will only tell!
I don't give a damn about crafting, but I'll reply to this. Yes, you'll probably get secondary deflectors, kits. But they'll get their own new crafting schools. Rejoice!
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Bad move changing it.
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol
I guess it will pay off in EC for those lucky guys now as they will have a monopoly on the market for a couple of months.
I don't disagree with that sentiment but I would caution you against hyperbole.
You make it sound like a seven year affair. It may take a year to do one school using only the 20 hour project, but you get multiple slots. You can do more than one school at a time, or you could buffer your 20 hour project with more of the smaller regular ones.
Congratulations, lol.
They would had to have spent about 1,890,000 dil just to reach Level 15.
Nearly 1.9 mil.
That's too rich for my blood.
I know this probably wasn't your call, but can you run it up the chain that with so many monetization mechanics at work in the new system, imposing additional time gates after launch doesn't make this look like you "resolved an issue". Instead, it makes it look like not enough people were spending dilithium to bypass the timers and you are further time gating and further monetizing the system. The Research Training project already rewards exactly half as much as running standard crafting assignments. With the perception that crafting is unattainable, or simply a "blatant cash grab", you are actually losing out on potential profits that the system could provide.
- If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they won't consider spending dilithium to advance.
- If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they also won't see the need for crafting doffs.
-
If most players do not see the need for crafting doffs, they will not prioritize purchasing Master Keys and opening lock boxes for the purpose of crafting doffs.
- If most players do not see the need for crafting doffs, they will not need doff Roster space for crafting doffs.
- If most players believe that they cannot reasonably get to a level where they can craft useable items, they won't actually bother to level their Crafting Schools.
-
If most players do not bother to level their Crafting Schools, they will not get to the point of spending dilithium on Very Rare components.
- If most players do not bother to level their Crafting Schools, they will not get to the point of needing Very Rare materials for Very Rare components.
-
If most players do not need Very Rare materials, they do not need to purchase the C-Store materials pack for Very Rare materials.
- If most players do not need Very Rare materials, they do not need to run less populated queued missions for a chance at Very Rare materials.
The general gist of it is... time-gating as heavily as the current system does is hurting your bottom line and negating your attempts to get players back into the less popular queued missions. Please do not implement this change, or revert the change to allow running multiples of the Research Training project if it cannot be removed from the Patch. You are trying to make money off of the crafting revamp, which is fair, but this really does look like... well...That quote shouldn't be valid feedback, but sadly... it is.
I'm not going to question on the patch, in fact I feel stupid for not noticing that you could multiple train. I'd be at Level 5 already. :P
Remove Exploration maps everyone wanted
Nerf revamped R&D system
Did i miss something? or did cryptic lose thier collective minds?
1.89 million *per school* to level 15. Seven schools, soon to be nine once they add kits and [redacted], and that's 17,010,000 dilithium for one person to be able to craft all of the level 15 specials.
That is a fleet starbase worth of dil input per player.
Slap in the face? More like a kick in the balls.
Seriously, devs. What in Spock's beard are you all doing over there? Being able to slot the 'easy' crafting thing multiple times in the same category is the ONLY thing that makes it reasonable to actually skill up.
And then you do this?
...I don't know what you're all doing over there. I mean seriously. I guess you DON'T want us to spend Dilithium crafting end game stuff at max level for the next 6 months.
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Under the current system, it would have still required more than a year to max out all the schools. Seems a year is a short timeframe for them and they expect us all to be around 2-3 years from now clicking away at crafting assignments.
Cryptic, re-read the above and tell us with a straight face that this is a good idea, or accept that you've seriously messed up your math and need to fix it quick smart.
You forgot, they supposedly have plans to add another school for Kits. Add 2mil more!
This is what they're doing. :rolleyes:
You need to rerun the numbers again - it'll take far far FAR more experience than that to hit level 15.
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So what else is new? It's the same time frame that I stop caring about reputation systems. Usually it is less than 1 week.
Sound crazy but hey it not my foot that going get shot.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
I edited when you were posting, dude. Enjoy.