Plenty of nerfs but nothing to actually address the horrible DOff/crafting UI.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
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~CaptainSmirk
Get a dev to say why they're making the crafting grind a full-time job. You expect casual players to log in once a day for a year only to be able to max out 1 single crafting school?
Crafting as it was so far is already -for each and every school- the slowest and least rewarding reputation system.
Now with this change each school will take longer than all existing reputations together, while unlocking only a fraction of the rewards/items.
How is that anyhow appealing?
Allow us to level crafting/a school in reasonable time -like it was/is with multiple research projects-, in return you'll get our dil -from us actually crafting items. Change it and a great many of your playerbase won't bother - and you'll gain nothing.
Get a dev to say why they're making the crafting grind a full-time job. You expect casual players to log in once a day for a year only to be able to max out 1 single crafting school?
Nope. They expect you to get tired of waiting -> Buy zen -> convert zen to dil -> spend dil to speed up projects.
Welcome to Farmville Online. STO has become a facebook-level game now.
Mk VI projects which require no Rare items, have a 1 hour duration and return 600 XP.
Mk VIII projects which require Rare items, have a 2 hour duration and return 1200 XP.
Mk X projects which require more Rare items, have a 3 hour duration and return 1800 XP.
Given that Cryptic totally screwed folks over in the conversion of Particle Traces, giving them a random assortment of Common, Uncommon, and Rare...where it was very rare to get Rare...
It all is starting to come together like that crafting thread calling it all a scam is more truth than rant at this point.
Is there some sort of XP Leveling thing here that I can see?
Because, from what I understand, the only thing you get out of maxing things out is traits. It's level 15 that has the weapons.
But, eh, you guys can go sit there and TRIBBLE and whine because you don't have your instant win. Me? I'm playing the tortoise and waiting it out. Believe me, waiting over 100 days for a computer weapon is nothing compared to waiting for something in real life.
Is there some sort of XP Leveling thing here that I can see?
Because, from what I understand, the only thing you get out of maxing things out is traits. It's level 15 that has the weapons.
But, eh, you guys can go sit there and TRIBBLE and whine because you don't have your instant win. Me? I'm playing the tortoise and waiting it out. Believe me, waiting over 100 days for a computer weapon is nothing compared to waiting for something in real life.
Everything is available at 15 (Traits and Weapons - unless they snuck a change for that in somewhere as well)...16-20 provide a better chance of getting the rarity of gear you want, etc, etc, etc. Your skill continues to increase.
So the xindi traits got nerfed, well thanks for saving me 120 million EC.
R&D Changes.
I wrote out a whole long reply but I can't bring myself to post it. This is a slap in the face. I would love it so much if the entire playerbase just quit R&D and no one touched it so the entire system just ends up being a waste.
you don't deserve our money for this joke of a crafting system, it was bad enough before now it's just a joke.
*edit*
i will add a bit more. With this change any player that does not log in daily should never even touch crafting. if you just did 3 20 hours a week it'll be almost 3 years for you to finish a single school. This game might not even exist by the time those players finish. Hell the world might end before casual players finish half the schools.
Even someone like me who logs in once a day it'll take me over 200 days to be able to run 5 projects and then i'll still be 2 years away from finishing everything. And on 4 toons? Just no point to even bother with this anymore.
I defend you guys so much but this can't be defended this is an absolute TRIBBLE you to the player base and the entire community.
So the xindi traits got nerfed, well thanks for saving me 120 million EC.
R&D Changes.
I wrote out a whole long reply but I can't bring myself to post it. This is a slap in the face. I would love it so much if the entire playerbase just quit R&D and no one touched it so the entire system just ends up being a waste.
you don't deserve our money for this joke of a crafting system, it was bad enough before now it's just a joke.
I suspect many people will get to level 8 or so and just give up/call it a day - they see how much Dil and EC it costs to find some of the rare items you need to craft, and like an above poster said - 100 mil EC to get an item that *might* have a modifier you want.
I don't believe I have ever complained on the forums before, and I don't panic every time a feature of the game changes. I fully expect Crafting to develop over time and be a great addition to the game.
However, I have to agree with others in this thread that the removal of the ability to run multiple Bonus Research projects is too much. Others here have expressed concern that it will take around a year to complete a single school. I will trust the accuracy of those calculations and agree that is a bit much. But, let's walk it back a little.
It takes 30,000 XP to reach level 4, which will give you the ability to run 3 whole R&D projects simultaneously.
If I am starting out fresh, then I can only run 1 research bonus project, per school, per day. Return is 6000 XP. However, for the first day, I can only run 1 school. 2nd day, only 2 schools.
Therefore, it will take me 5 days to get a school to to level 4, where I get an additional R&D slot. I will have one school at level 3, with 24,000 XP.
So, now, on day 5, my next goal is to get the three schools I have chosen (and can run projects for) to Level 5. As a level 50 VA, I have no interest in crafting low-level items and wasting my materials. So, I hold out for Level 5. But, I have to get 3 schools to level 5 before I get my next R&D slot.
I have 1 school at Level 4. I need 18,000 (3 Days) to get it to Level 5.
I have 1 school at Level 3. I need 24,000 (5 Days) to get it to Level 5.
I can now start a new school because I have a 3rd R&D slot. I need 48,000 (8 days) to get it to Level 5.
So, a total of 13 days to get three schools to Level 5. And I still can't craft anything of value (to me). For that, I have to be level 15 and since I did not attain that level on Tribble, I don't know how much XP you need to get there. If I recall correctly, it was somewhere on the order of 2,000,000 XP to reach Level 20.
So, I submit that this change is not a healthy one for the system, simply because it will take so long to reach any goal of value that players will throw their hands up in hopelessness. If you enter a tunnel with no hope of seeing a light at the other end, chances are you are going to turn around and go another way.
I totally understand wanting to restrict people from being able to breeze through Crafting in a day. I understand trying to create a Dilithium sink by allowing players to bypass the time gate (although 17k + is a bit excessive). I also do not agree with those squawking that Crafting is the end of STO. But, this feels like you are putting concrete shoes on us for no apparent reason.
Leave this out of the patch. I simply do not see how it, in any way, benefits the Crafting system or the players.
Is it really? Didn't you find it odd when you discovered that? When you jump up and down and realize you have the easy way out, that's not a feature, that's an exploit.
Hey, I don't see the big deal folks are making out of this...you can still get to L15 in the same time and it makes perfect sense.
1) Quit your job.
2) Spend 10 hours a day where you slot multiple Mk VI projects every hour and the rest of the time grinding the Common/Uncommon mats needed or spend 10 hours a day where you slot multiple Mk VIII projects every two hours and the rest of the time grinding the Common/Uncommon/Rare mats needed.
3) Profit!
It makes perfect sense.
No, I haven't been drinking. Maybe I just fell down three flights of stairs where I landed on my head on every single freakin' step...but surely that's not what is causing something like this to make sense, right?
So the xindi traits got nerfed, well thanks for saving me 120 million EC.
R&D Changes.
I wrote out a whole long reply but I can't bring myself to post it. This is a slap in the face. I would love it so much if the entire playerbase just quit R&D and no one touched it so the entire system just ends up being a waste.
you don't deserve our money for this joke of a crafting system, it was bad enough before now it's just a joke.
I agree.
Look, we get that you need to make a profit, and a lot of money comes in from people buying zen to convert to dilithium. We want you to make a profit, we want to enjoy this game and see it improve.
I won't speak for anyone else here, but I would spend a lot more REAL money on a useful crafting system then I will this sick joke you have given us.
So, I will do the only thing I can, boycott the Dilithium Exchange and the Z-store. Entirely.
Look, we get that you need to make a profit, and a lot of money comes in from people buying zen to convert to dilithium. We want you to make a profit, we want to enjoy this game and see it improve.
I won't speak for anyone else here, but I would spend a lot more REAL money on a useful crafting system then I will this sick joke you have given us.
So, I will do the only thing I can, boycott the Dilithium Exchange and the Z-store. Entirely.
As it is the majority of people were doing this just for the traits since the cost to actually get an item you want is insane since you can't even choose what item you get.
But now that it's going to take even longer to get those traits, it's like rakhol said, it's a bottomless pit. in 4 months time when i unlock those traits there will be a new lock box, a new expansion and new missions and probably stuff i rather have.
Give us CONTENT to spend money on. More ships, more costumes, bridge officers, bridge packs, don't waste our time.
So from 0, 105 days of xp projects to get to level 15 assuming 6000 xp a day, and 630,000xp is still level 15. Since you can't see that, who knows.
Assuming the mythical 4 hour player so often quoted by Cryptic runs 4 crafting projects once an hour for those 4 hours, that would be 9600 xp a day, for 66 (rounding) days to level 15. This is assuming that you first grind up to get level 5 in four schools.
On the other hand, if you have a long weekend, and no life, you could run 4 projects around the clock, for 230,400 xp a day it would take you a shade less than 3 days. I suspect you would go insane first though.
And to those people saying that this was obviously an exploit, no, it wasn't. Hawk came on these forums and said that it would take 350 hours to get a school to level 15. That's about 15 days if you do it day and night. The other official information was saying that leveling one crafting school to level 15 would take about the same amount of time as a reputation project. They then gave us this 20 hour xp project. Running it this way, including the multiple projects in the same school takes you 33 days for the first one, including all of the leveling two other schools to level 5. And that was after they reduced the xp of the projects from the first iteration. So it made perfect sense, it fit everything they told us.
Apparently, they changed their minds.
I just wish they had the guts to come out and say it instead of hiding being the idea that this was an issue.
Also, devs, please note, Craylon Gas does not drop from any Elite queues that anyone can find. Please see links below. If everyone is wrong about this being a bug, please let us know and I for one will stop reporting it as such.
Is it really? Didn't you find it odd when you discovered that? When you jump up and down and realize you have the easy way out, that's not a feature, that's an exploit.
Honestly, no.
I thought that the ability to specialise had been sensibly realized, that's all.
Here is a solution. If your truly going to be [redacted] and really do this then on thursday double everything.
Double the xp from every single project from the lowest all the way to the 20 hour. That's still not on par with doing 4 at a time but it makes up for this BS.
By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
He should have added:
Running just the 6K daily assignment takes 105 days or 2520 hours. 88 days or 2100 hours if you have no life and wake up exactly every 20 hours to assign a new one.
I've been playing for two and a half years, I've seen good changes and bad.
Systems:
Research and Development:
Resolved an issue which was allowing players to run multiple Research Training projects from the same school simultaneously.
Only 1 Research Training project can be run at a time per school.
This however, is the worst. As it is now, it's like R&D added seven rep systems worth of grind. After a nerf like this, it's more like grinding thirty five rep systems. THIRTY FIVE! I was willing to give the occasional dil boost before, but I will not burn 132+ dollars worth of dil to finish one school!
The rewards for this kind of grind are simply unacceptable.
Oh yea, and now instead of just being a month or so behind everyone who blew through dil to hit 15, I'm a year behind.
Why didn't they make it an EC sink instead of a dil sink, god knows EC inflation is out of control, whereas the dil exchange has stayed much more stable over the last 12 months.
LOR release DtZ: 130
Now: 160
LOR release keys: 1.2 mil
Now: 3 mil
There's plenty of stuff to spend dilithium on in this game, you guys need to start separating end game players from their EC.
Thank you, now I have all this free time. I had just formulated plans for my alts and crafting. Now, since you can only run one project at a time . . . no thanks, not worth the effort.
Why didn't they make it an EC sink instead of a dil sink, god knows EC inflation is out of control, whereas the dil exchange has stayed much more stable over the last 12 months.
LOR release DtZ: 130
Now: 160
LOR release keys: 1.2 mil
Now: 3 mil
There's plenty of stuff to spend dilithium on in this game, you guys need to start separating end game players from their EC.
And they just nerfed EC farming with 9.5 by cutting prices for def/eng/shields by over 50%. Those farming missions that used to give 500-800k now are lucky to hit 400k from what i've been seeing.
So they made a dil sink with the R&D and thanks to the insane costs of everything on the exchange and harder to farm EC they force people to buy master keys to sell them on the exchange for EC.
Oh yea, and now instead of just being a month or so behind everyone who blew through dil to hit 15, I'm a year behind.
This.
I don't even post much, but had to for this. If you're going to do this, you need to cut the dilithium completion costs in half, or more, too. I don't even mind spending a few hours a day crafting totally useless items just to earn exp, but I absolutely refuse to invest that kind of time to do it across multiple toons, and I only even have 3 anymore.
This doesn't balance the system out, it just un-balances it even more. Most people, and probly me included, will just say TRIBBLE this, I don't expect it to take a week, but I don't expect it to take a decade either. I'll just go back to saving up EC and eventually just buy the top items others craft, leaving control of the top items market to only those who spent a crapload of dilith to max their schools already.
And, I thought the entire point of the Rep system changes were so "newer" players weren't so hopelessly outclassed by veteran players with loads of rep traits. You've just created the problem all over again. Eventually, most veteran players will have great crafted gear, and those new players will be years away from getting the same stuff unless they want to spend huge amounts of real money.
He should have added:
Running just the 6K daily assignment takes 105 days or 2520 hours. 88 days or 2100 hours if you have no life and wake up exactly every 20 hours to assign a new one.
I get the VERY BAD feeling that this is just ONE school:eek::(
So forget specializing - and how many days before I get the new traits? a few years??
No thanks - I already blew a couple 100k dilithium opening 3 schools to lvl 5 and was then going to specialize in just one.
Yeah - crafting ending pretty quick for me. It's better this way - more time for other games:)
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Crafting is now dead, Smirk. Nobody in his/her/its right mind is going to grind for 334 days to complete a single school.
Get a dev to say why they're making the crafting grind a full-time job. You expect casual players to log in once a day for a year only to be able to max out 1 single crafting school?
Now with this change each school will take longer than all existing reputations together, while unlocking only a fraction of the rewards/items.
How is that anyhow appealing?
Allow us to level crafting/a school in reasonable time -like it was/is with multiple research projects-, in return you'll get our dil -from us actually crafting items. Change it and a great many of your playerbase won't bother - and you'll gain nothing.
Nope. They expect you to get tired of waiting -> Buy zen -> convert zen to dil -> spend dil to speed up projects.
Welcome to Farmville Online. STO has become a facebook-level game now.
Mk VIII projects which require Rare items, have a 2 hour duration and return 1200 XP.
Mk X projects which require more Rare items, have a 3 hour duration and return 1800 XP.
Given that Cryptic totally screwed folks over in the conversion of Particle Traces, giving them a random assortment of Common, Uncommon, and Rare...where it was very rare to get Rare...
It all is starting to come together like that crafting thread calling it all a scam is more truth than rant at this point.
Because, from what I understand, the only thing you get out of maxing things out is traits. It's level 15 that has the weapons.
But, eh, you guys can go sit there and TRIBBLE and whine because you don't have your instant win. Me? I'm playing the tortoise and waiting it out. Believe me, waiting over 100 days for a computer weapon is nothing compared to waiting for something in real life.
Everything is available at 15 (Traits and Weapons - unless they snuck a change for that in somewhere as well)...16-20 provide a better chance of getting the rarity of gear you want, etc, etc, etc. Your skill continues to increase.
R&D Changes.
I wrote out a whole long reply but I can't bring myself to post it. This is a slap in the face. I would love it so much if the entire playerbase just quit R&D and no one touched it so the entire system just ends up being a waste.
you don't deserve our money for this joke of a crafting system, it was bad enough before now it's just a joke.
*edit*
i will add a bit more. With this change any player that does not log in daily should never even touch crafting. if you just did 3 20 hours a week it'll be almost 3 years for you to finish a single school. This game might not even exist by the time those players finish. Hell the world might end before casual players finish half the schools.
Even someone like me who logs in once a day it'll take me over 200 days to be able to run 5 projects and then i'll still be 2 years away from finishing everything. And on 4 toons? Just no point to even bother with this anymore.
I defend you guys so much but this can't be defended this is an absolute TRIBBLE you to the player base and the entire community.
I suspect many people will get to level 8 or so and just give up/call it a day - they see how much Dil and EC it costs to find some of the rare items you need to craft, and like an above poster said - 100 mil EC to get an item that *might* have a modifier you want.
Sounds horrible! lol
That's not an issue, it's a feature.
It's the new R+D systems savng grace.
An utterly pointless decision, which merely reinforces the sense of a dev with nothing but contempt for the players.
Shameful.
However, I have to agree with others in this thread that the removal of the ability to run multiple Bonus Research projects is too much. Others here have expressed concern that it will take around a year to complete a single school. I will trust the accuracy of those calculations and agree that is a bit much. But, let's walk it back a little.
So, a total of 13 days to get three schools to Level 5. And I still can't craft anything of value (to me). For that, I have to be level 15 and since I did not attain that level on Tribble, I don't know how much XP you need to get there. If I recall correctly, it was somewhere on the order of 2,000,000 XP to reach Level 20.
So, I submit that this change is not a healthy one for the system, simply because it will take so long to reach any goal of value that players will throw their hands up in hopelessness. If you enter a tunnel with no hope of seeing a light at the other end, chances are you are going to turn around and go another way.
I totally understand wanting to restrict people from being able to breeze through Crafting in a day. I understand trying to create a Dilithium sink by allowing players to bypass the time gate (although 17k + is a bit excessive). I also do not agree with those squawking that Crafting is the end of STO. But, this feels like you are putting concrete shoes on us for no apparent reason.
Leave this out of the patch. I simply do not see how it, in any way, benefits the Crafting system or the players.
Is it really? Didn't you find it odd when you discovered that? When you jump up and down and realize you have the easy way out, that's not a feature, that's an exploit.
1) Quit your job.
2) Spend 10 hours a day where you slot multiple Mk VI projects every hour and the rest of the time grinding the Common/Uncommon mats needed or spend 10 hours a day where you slot multiple Mk VIII projects every two hours and the rest of the time grinding the Common/Uncommon/Rare mats needed.
3) Profit!
It makes perfect sense.
No, I haven't been drinking. Maybe I just fell down three flights of stairs where I landed on my head on every single freakin' step...but surely that's not what is causing something like this to make sense, right?
I agree.
Look, we get that you need to make a profit, and a lot of money comes in from people buying zen to convert to dilithium. We want you to make a profit, we want to enjoy this game and see it improve.
I won't speak for anyone else here, but I would spend a lot more REAL money on a useful crafting system then I will this sick joke you have given us.
So, I will do the only thing I can, boycott the Dilithium Exchange and the Z-store. Entirely.
As it is the majority of people were doing this just for the traits since the cost to actually get an item you want is insane since you can't even choose what item you get.
But now that it's going to take even longer to get those traits, it's like rakhol said, it's a bottomless pit. in 4 months time when i unlock those traits there will be a new lock box, a new expansion and new missions and probably stuff i rather have.
Give us CONTENT to spend money on. More ships, more costumes, bridge officers, bridge packs, don't waste our time.
So from 0, 105 days of xp projects to get to level 15 assuming 6000 xp a day, and 630,000xp is still level 15. Since you can't see that, who knows.
Assuming the mythical 4 hour player so often quoted by Cryptic runs 4 crafting projects once an hour for those 4 hours, that would be 9600 xp a day, for 66 (rounding) days to level 15. This is assuming that you first grind up to get level 5 in four schools.
On the other hand, if you have a long weekend, and no life, you could run 4 projects around the clock, for 230,400 xp a day it would take you a shade less than 3 days. I suspect you would go insane first though.
And to those people saying that this was obviously an exploit, no, it wasn't. Hawk came on these forums and said that it would take 350 hours to get a school to level 15. That's about 15 days if you do it day and night. The other official information was saying that leveling one crafting school to level 15 would take about the same amount of time as a reputation project. They then gave us this 20 hour xp project. Running it this way, including the multiple projects in the same school takes you 33 days for the first one, including all of the leveling two other schools to level 5. And that was after they reduced the xp of the projects from the first iteration. So it made perfect sense, it fit everything they told us.
Apparently, they changed their minds.
I just wish they had the guts to come out and say it instead of hiding being the idea that this was an issue.
Also, devs, please note, Craylon Gas does not drop from any Elite queues that anyone can find. Please see links below. If everyone is wrong about this being a bug, please let us know and I for one will stop reporting it as such.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18133491&highlight=craylon#post18133491
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18100811&highlight=craylon#post18100811
Nouveau riche LTS member
Honestly, no.
I thought that the ability to specialise had been sensibly realized, that's all.
Double the xp from every single project from the lowest all the way to the 20 hour. That's still not on par with doing 4 at a time but it makes up for this BS.
He should have added:
Running just the 6K daily assignment takes 105 days or 2520 hours. 88 days or 2100 hours if you have no life and wake up exactly every 20 hours to assign a new one.
This however, is the worst. As it is now, it's like R&D added seven rep systems worth of grind. After a nerf like this, it's more like grinding thirty five rep systems. THIRTY FIVE! I was willing to give the occasional dil boost before, but I will not burn 132+ dollars worth of dil to finish one school!
The rewards for this kind of grind are simply unacceptable.
Oh yea, and now instead of just being a month or so behind everyone who blew through dil to hit 15, I'm a year behind.
Thanks, Cryptic.
LOR release DtZ: 130
Now: 160
LOR release keys: 1.2 mil
Now: 3 mil
There's plenty of stuff to spend dilithium on in this game, you guys need to start separating end game players from their EC.
And they just nerfed EC farming with 9.5 by cutting prices for def/eng/shields by over 50%. Those farming missions that used to give 500-800k now are lucky to hit 400k from what i've been seeing.
So they made a dil sink with the R&D and thanks to the insane costs of everything on the exchange and harder to farm EC they force people to buy master keys to sell them on the exchange for EC.
Welcome to grindland, season 10. The adventure continues.
This.
I don't even post much, but had to for this. If you're going to do this, you need to cut the dilithium completion costs in half, or more, too. I don't even mind spending a few hours a day crafting totally useless items just to earn exp, but I absolutely refuse to invest that kind of time to do it across multiple toons, and I only even have 3 anymore.
This doesn't balance the system out, it just un-balances it even more. Most people, and probly me included, will just say TRIBBLE this, I don't expect it to take a week, but I don't expect it to take a decade either. I'll just go back to saving up EC and eventually just buy the top items others craft, leaving control of the top items market to only those who spent a crapload of dilith to max their schools already.
And, I thought the entire point of the Rep system changes were so "newer" players weren't so hopelessly outclassed by veteran players with loads of rep traits. You've just created the problem all over again. Eventually, most veteran players will have great crafted gear, and those new players will be years away from getting the same stuff unless they want to spend huge amounts of real money.
I get the VERY BAD feeling that this is just ONE school:eek::(
So forget specializing - and how many days before I get the new traits? a few years??
No thanks - I already blew a couple 100k dilithium opening 3 schools to lvl 5 and was then going to specialize in just one.
Yeah - crafting ending pretty quick for me. It's better this way - more time for other games:)
Being able to run only one research project at a time, is lame, not sure I want to even bother with crafting.
Yeah..We're going to need you to come in on Saturday..:rolleyes: