Actually it did have a few episodes scattered through the series that involve exploration, the crew explored a dominion vessel for example.
They explored a number of times in the delta quadrant. For that matter they explored the wormhole itself and encountered the beings there mostly peacefully. The Ferengi opened trade routes in the delta quadrant. Lots of different groups surveyed unknown planets - founded colonies etc. There was a lot of exploration in and related to DS9.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Then, what is Star Trek: Elite Force? What is Star Trek: Borg?
For that matter, because DS9 didn't have exploration and spent a good chunk of its series in a war, does that mean it's not Trek?
It had quite a lot of exploration of various kinds... And wars and large-scale battles. Which is part of why I liked it so much. If STO could strike the same balance, rather than being a game about just killing things with fancy technology, then I'd probably actually start playing again.
They explored a number of times in the delta quadrant. For that matter they explored the wormhole itself and encountered the beings there mostly peacefully. The Ferengi opened trade routes in the delta quadrant. Lots of different groups surveyed unknown planets - founded colonies etc. There was a lot of exploration in and related to DS9.
DS9 was the Gamma Quadrant and Voyager was the Delta Quadrant. But suffice to say it is looking like much the community is against the move to scrap the clusters and should be put to a community vote to decide the fate of these side missions. If the votes swing towards keeping it, temporarily remove the clusters but turn them into doors while the devs can improve the missions that can be obtained. If there is not enough interest and the votes swing towards scrapping the clusters, then just turn them into doors for the foundry. Exploration is part of basic Star Trek lore and seeing as the MMO is based on that lore, this is a very sensitive subject in this case and the community should have been consulted beforehand to gauge the reactions to the news and before the green light had been given.
"I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
Star Trek is a universe of exploration
And there is less and less exploration to do in game.
We want to explore to discover new culture, new items, new place. Clusters were also part of that.
We want a community vote, although I'm pretty sure lots of players don't care about that.
This game is becoming like most of other mmo's, only fashion is important, having all ships, all looks and the stories, the history is becoming less important and that's really sad , really disapointing
epic, Cryptic's idea of improving the quality of the game is to remove content, and not replace it with something better. Epic.
They could...
Take those crappy missions, delete most of them and rework a handful of them, say 20, to fix them. Later create better, more interesting missions.
It's usually easier to fix something that almost works than to recreate the wheel. Most of the problems with the missions are the landing party position being underground, too many objects on some maps to render all objects (usually the BOffs) and doorway frames being too big for NPCs to get around.
Start with 20, then each month Christine/Kestral (sp?) writes some short stories, simple ones, then they build simple maps around them.
But honestly, this is still man-hours, and therefore, money put into something that doesn't bring in money.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
The Foundry isn't exploration either. So it's not the solution.
I actually agree, up to a point. But it could be.
Flying up to an exploration point and then being forced to manually search for a mission that might not even start there? No good.
Being thrust into a random 1.5 hour Foundry mission when you just want to kill 15 minutes? No good.
If this provides the impetus to bring the Foundry up to the Neverwinter standard and beyond, then maybe. But it has to be Trek. It can't be a retread of D&D tropes. Cryptic has to figure out a way to give us honest to goodness exploration and not just another version of "kill 10 orcs" or "click 5 barrels".
Basically, they ought to provide Foundry authors with the tools to create mini Adventure zones in the New Romulus tradition, complete with optionals, hooks for DOFF assignments, local hazards, and placed objects like NW has got. New kinds of NPC interactions, too, and better customization of NPC's.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Take those crappy missions, delete most of them and rework a handful of them, say 20, to fix them. Later create better, more interesting missions.
I was going to suggest something along these lines -- creating a "best of" exploration missions, with some "remastering". Let's face it, many of the exploration missions follow a simple formula, which makes them very similar. Getting rid of the "duplicates" would reduce the number dramatically.
most of mmo's have dungeons or flashpoint missions, and raids and world boss.
We have none of that in sto. the longest pve mission is like 15 mn.
It's just becoming more and more a farming marks-dil game.
The price on dilithium exchange increase non stop and cryptic and especially pwe are happy about that as it means more and more players put real money in game to have zen and get fewer and fewer dilithium.
Without exploration, without long battle, long mission it's decreasing it's attraction level for real and long time player.
My friend list is less and less active. I had 10-20 friends online 1 year ago, now if I have 4 it's a maximum and it's getting worse and worse.
while typing there is 10 player in Azure Nebula, 50 in Crystalline Elite, 60 in ISE, 60 in KSE, 5 in undine, 5 in storming the spire, 5 in the breach, a few in normal pve and that's all.....
I'm pretty sure a lot of people like what is the game now and don't care at all about exploration, just want to dress their characters like their favourite character on screen, having also all ships, etc
but seriously since a lot of time, cryptic has take a bad turn rate allowing us to have ennemies ships was the 1st mistake.
I'm really disapointed of what is done and althought I was waiting for long to have a new crafting system as I like crafting a lot in all game I'm playing, but I don't know if i'll really continue to play the game as I don't find no pleasure anymore.
most of mmo's have dungeons or flashpoint missions, and raids and world boss.
We have none of that in sto. the longest pve mission is like 15 mn.
It's just becoming more and more a farming marks-dil game.
The price on dilithium exchange increase non stop and cryptic and especially pwe are happy about that as it means more and more players put real money in game to have zen and get fewer and fewer dilithium.
Without exploration, without long battle, long mission it's decreasing it's attraction level for real and long time player.
My friend list is less and less active. I had 10-20 friends online 1 year ago, now if I have 4 it's a maximum and it's getting worse and worse.
while typing there is 10 player in Azure Nebula, 50 in Crystalline Elite, 60 in ISE, 60 in KSE, 5 in undine, 5 in storming the spire, 5 in the breach, a few in normal pve and that's all.....
I'm pretty sure a lot of people like what is the game now and don't care at all about exploration, just want to dress their characters like their favourite character on screen, having also all ships, etc
but seriously since a lot of time, cryptic has take a bad turn rate allowing us to have ennemies ships was the 1st mistake.
I'm really disapointed of what is done and althought I was waiting for long to have a new crafting system as I like crafting a lot in all game I'm playing, but I don't know if i'll really continue to play the game as I don't find no pleasure anymore.
I agree. I'm growing more and more fustrated with this game. I saw your blog. Is that a game you are working on? I'm making something using Urho3D also personally based on Star Trek.
I ask all of you to consider playing my latest Foundry mission: "Explore Delta Volanis, Mission 1." I am still hunting typos, etc., but it's my version of a cluster exploration mission. No fancy sets, huge ziggaruts, or massive headaches with triggers.
It's just a simple story involving no combat and exploration. It's a self contained story. That is all I will say:
It's in the review stage. "Explore Delta Volanis, Mission 1." It won't give any rewards until it "counts." Click review tab and search "kirkfat"
I play foundry missions regularly (that is when the mission seems fun) They are awesome. My favorite foundry missions are better than many of the episodes and better than most of the individual star cluster missions. But the foundry missions aren't exploration. They are developer wannabes retelling their favorite stories (Fantastic Journey anyone?). The star clusters were not great and might even need a change. But the issue here is how they chose to answer that need. Star Clusters aren't working? Fine. Lets actually do something about it.
"Risk is part of the game if you wanna sit in that chair."
I am personally against the removal of "Exploration" aspect of the is game. If fact that is what should be at the very heart of this game and in my opinion do to the lack of it led to the loss of so may customers when STO first came out. Exploration is what is going to make people stay and pay. Imagine for a few minutes a three dimensional map as vast as the 'EVE Online" universe where each person could go forth to explore and investigate. It could be created in such a manner is which our different starships really have a value and role to play. The warp classification of your engines and trans-warp drive would really have value and play a factor in your travels. A place where scanning of a solar system and mapping the stars is important. Some systems would have gas giants others have races. I should not have to rely on the public to develop stories and missions. But in such a universe as I am proposing these Foundry authors could select and "populate" many of these systems. Imagine as you are traveling between these systems you could be attacked my a hostile race. A universe where the different Empires and the Federation would on occasion go to war for the control of a system. Where space stations play a more important role as we expand. A MMO where every two years or so, the universe "solar systems" would be reset and more solar systems and unique "Finds" would be added and then rearranged except for the current known part we have in game today. In may opinion this game needs to be more alive. If this trend doesn't change I'm afraid the developers are going to lose a lot of people. Some them will be people like me, people who pay a subscription and/or regularly purchase items from the C-Store.
They are doing that also because the new crafting system.
Until now to get ressources you just needed to go to a cluster and scan annomalies to get them.
but now it will be pack in the c-store !!!
There is also other way to get them but don't know in how many wuantities we will have them, but for big crafters that will need a lot they 'll be pushed to buy them with zen
What makes me worried also is the duty nofficers chain assignement "Support Cluster" with the purple doff as reward on crit.
They are doing that also because the new crafting system.
Until now to get ressources you just needed to go to a cluster and scan annomalies to get them.
but now it will be pack in the c-store !!!
There is also other way to get them but don't know in how many wuantities we will have them, but for big crafters that will need a lot they 'll be pushed to buy them with zen
What makes me worried also is the duty nofficers chain assignement "Support Cluster" with the purple doff as reward on crit.
none of these mission are going away, if you read the blog it mentions this all you have to do is go to the associated spot of the clusters and bingo you have all the DOff missions we had before the clusters were gone some mission have been changed to work with the new system but all in all they are all still there, go try tribble and you will see this, or just wait till the update.
But the foundry missions aren't exploration. They are developer wannabes retelling their favorite stories (Fantastic Journey anyone?).
Exploration is the act of searching for the purpose of discovery of information or resources, at least according to Wiki. Exploration in Star Trek, at its core, was about the discovery of information about the universe we lived told as a story primarily through the exploration of our own humanity.
Scanning an anomoly was secondary to how we as explorers handled a situation when that anomoly threw us into a time loop, or sucked us into a sub space vortex with no way of escape.
So yes, the foundry is exploration. Far more so than anything I have seen from a sinlge FE mission I've played. Sure some of them are farming and some are...weird. But come on, Star Trek IS fan fiction, created by the biggest fan of "wouldn't it be cool if...", "what would happen if..." Every episode of Star Trek was written by fans of Gene's idea. Nearly all of TNG was a retelling of some mid/early century story or fable.
Scanning anomolies just to scan them is documentation and observation. It is the scientific method. It is the grind and busy work and science which MAY be associated with exploration. And no video game is going to provide the level of realism in physics, biology, chemistry and astronomy to allow you to explore actual real and endless phenomena. Not happening.
If it's the flying around and getting into something new you are looking for then scan the Foundry (which is exploration itself) and select some missions which start in various systems, then rather than flying in an empty space fly through sector space and explore what stories foundry authors can tell.
But I have a hard time believing that many in the pro exploration clusters camp would bother if there was no accolades or something game specific to be gained (purple doffs, material/dil farm, some exploit). I'm mean, come on man...how many times can you scan the same 5 things and not get completely bored out of your mind?
There isn't a single Star Trek episode ever made where its an hour of scanning particle traces, flying through empty space with no story. Not one. But there are plenty of stories which are about the exploration of self, humanity, culture which happen to take place in space. Cryptic isn't giving you that kind of content. Because their role is to make the blockbuster star trek movie with excitement and adventure.
none of these mission are going away, if you read the blog it mentions this all you have to do is go to the associated spot of the clusters and bingo you have all the DOff missions we had before the clusters were gone some mission have been changed to work with the new system but all in all they are all still there, go try tribble and you will see this, or just wait till the update.
Yes, the doff missions are still there but you now interact in sector space, soooooo . . . no more bridge invites for Colonization missions. They seems they want to reduce the speed which we acquire free doffs!
The only reason not negated by Cryptic to remove Clusters is because they are not up to their standards and it will somehow improve the game.
Seems download size isn't an issue for them any longer since assets were thrown into Foundry. Then we have the players getting lost, let's hope those Foundry doors don't have the same effect.
Frankly, the exploration clusters, to me, were as they described them: redundant and they got boring after a while. I stopped doing anything with them months ago, with the exception of DOFF missions. And, the ironic thing, is that to do the DOFF missions, I would warp to the cluster, and just sit there where I showed up, load up the DOFF missions, and leave again - EXACTLY what I figure I'll be doing with the "anchor point" or whatever they put in there to facilitate said missions. So, from my own perspective, it really won't change much at all, except now I can get to the DOFF missions one warp sooner, so all is good!
Yes. They were not up to standards. But why, is the question you need to ask Cryptic. It's because they abandoned the Genesis Engine after the launch. It should have gotten more assets and missions put in to it to make the missions more random and give us new mission parameters to complete. They should have made the rewards from exploring match those of doing STFs. Then people would have kept playing them. Leaving it at a handful of different missions types is what made the exploration clusters so tiresome.
As for the whole getting lost thing. Address that then by making a better and more easily navigated map. Because the Dyson Zone map is way more messy then any of the exploration maps ever was.
It's disappointing for reasons that so many people have already stated: It was a different way to play the game that wasn't centred on the equally redundant and distressingly militant story arcs, episodes and queues. It had some randomness and a totally different feel of hopeful exploration and discovery.
By removing this, it seems that you're essentially removing from STO the unique thematic core of the IP. The thing that makes it different from all other sci-fi - an optimistic view of humanity's future.
Doing this without even attempting to improve or enhance the current system seems...questionable.
An alternative approach would be to improve the system somehow. A couple of suggestions have been made:
1) Improve the system in-house
ADD more random missions and more random aliens. How about a dozen missions in each category that all seem to start the same, but take different directions as each progresses? Maybe some lead into story arcs or first contacts? How about some random alien and critter generation? Environmental threats?
2) Open it up to the Foundry
Not a bad plan. As others have mentioned, it would be better if the Foundry were less limited. Not only mission tools, but also things like alien costumes, critters, environmental issues and (why was this not obvious from day 1?) alien ship costumes.
3) Why not leave it in place?
The devs say it's useless and "not up to standards". That's a fine opinion, but maybe not one that is shared by the community that actually, you know, plays the game. It's also not the only useless aspect of the game...so why is this one system getting singled out for redaction? Why not leave the clusters in place until such time as you can develop a better, more satisfactory system?
When I play STO, I like to imagine the Star Trek universe going on somewhere in the background. NOT the Star Trek universe the dev's imagine - with respect and apologies, they're just fans with a bigger soap box than the rest of us. No, I mean the Star Trek I've seen on screen.
A peace-seeking, humanitarian Star Trek.
The Exploration Clusters best represent that aspect of Star Trek in STO. Removing the Clusters, without any effort to enhance or replace them, removes that spirit from STO and in my opinion, for whatever that's worth, would be...ill-advised.
Exploration is the act of searching for the purpose of discovery of information or resources, at least according to Wiki. Exploration in Star Trek, at its core, was about the discovery of information about the universe we lived told as a story primarily through the exploration of our own humanity.
Scanning an anomoly was secondary to how we as explorers handled a situation when that anomoly threw us into a time loop, or sucked us into a sub space vortex with no way of escape.
So yes, the foundry is exploration. Far more so than anything I have seen from a sinlge FE mission I've played. Sure some of them are farming and some are...weird. But come on, Star Trek IS fan fiction, created by the biggest fan of "wouldn't it be cool if...", "what would happen if..." Every episode of Star Trek was written by fans of Gene's idea. Nearly all of TNG was a retelling of some mid/early century story or fable.
Scanning anomolies just to scan them is documentation and observation. It is the scientific method. It is the grind and busy work and science which MAY be associated with exploration. And no video game is going to provide the level of realism in physics, biology, chemistry and astronomy to allow you to explore actual real and endless phenomena. Not happening.
If it's the flying around and getting into something new you are looking for then scan the Foundry (which is exploration itself) and select some missions which start in various systems, then rather than flying in an empty space fly through sector space and explore what stories foundry authors can tell.
But I have a hard time believing that many in the pro exploration clusters camp would bother if there was no accolades or something game specific to be gained (purple doffs, material/dil farm, some exploit). I'm mean, come on man...how many times can you scan the same 5 things and not get completely bored out of your mind?
There isn't a single Star Trek episode ever made where its an hour of scanning particle traces, flying through empty space with no story. Not one. But there are plenty of stories which are about the exploration of self, humanity, culture which happen to take place in space. Cryptic isn't giving you that kind of content. Because their role is to make the blockbuster star trek movie with excitement and adventure.
Hmmm. I agree but I disagree.
The first problem is foundry can be made to be more exploration if you have a exploration space and random events like scan unknown system starts a foundry mission.
The problem is who qualifies a mission for exploration and what qualifies what a good exploration foundry missioThe problem is who qualifies a mission for exploration and what qualifies what a good exploration foundry mission is. I think because Cryptic have to get CBS permission of what's Start Trek that they need apaid employees to verify content. Additionally, have 100's of foundry missions would take hard drive. The precious thing preventing people to trail this game grindfest.
The second problem with this is. Those people who created stories for Star Trek movies, televisions shows, comics, and merchandise got PAID. It's clear the Cryptic is not compensating Foundry missions developers. Here is the kicker people pay for game development and now passing the development buck on the players for free while they get money and lots of it.
n is. I think because Cryptic have to get CBS permission of what's Start Trek that they need apaid employees to verify content. Additionally, have 100's of foundry missions would take hard drive. The precious thing preventing people to trail this game grindfest.
The second problem with this is. Those people who created stories for Star Trek movies, televisions shows, comics, and merchandise got PAID. It's clear the Cryptic is not compensating Foundry missions. Here is the kicker people pay for game development and now passing the development buck on the players for free while they get money and lots of it.
The last part about Cryptic creating a blockbluster Star Trek. That's not happening.
As Cryptic continue to remove content starting Season 9 and nerf. It started a while ago but became clear with the reputation system trait cap, removal of missions and episodes, and now removal of exploration clusters. They will continue to remove content and add monetization to every aspect of the game. While adding grindfest galour. Whoever says they will add it back, it's not happening either.
Cryptic only goal and purpose is making money from the game even if it's turning to a lightweight World of ******** - Neverwinter pew pew fest. Period.
My 2nd attempt to make a Foundry exploration mission is now live. "Explore Delta Volanis, Mission 2" by kirkfat. Thanks!
So...take 2.
On one mission. By the ostensible poster-boy of Foundry creators.
Well, sure. I feel better already. What could go wrong...?
========
kirksplat, your Foundry missions tend to be awesome and your tutorials for the otherwise byzantine Foundry UI are tres nifty.
That said, I find your self-promotion-at-the-expense-of-the-community to be extremely vexing in this instance. As awesome as it might be for you if we all relied on your content, it might be less awesome for the rest of the community as a whole in the long run.
If you can't understand that, well...then it's almost definitely less awesome for everyone but you.
TO BE CLEAR No. I'm not comfortable relying on you to produce Exploration content. ESPECIALLY based on the quote above, although thank you for the update!
I'm HAPPY to support your efforts as a member of the player community, even as you promote the interests of that community.
I'm less sanguine about indulging your efforts to promote yourself at the expense of that community. Which is frankly how your comments here have come across to me, whatever your actual intentions.
========
"Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages the U.S.S. Enterprise. It's five-year mission: To <REDACTED FOR QUALITY> life forms. To <REDACTED FOR QUALITY> worlds and civilizations. To boldly go <REDACTED FOR QUALITY>."
I think once you've abandoned the literal mission statement of your IP in order to preserve its integrity you've entered some sort of bizarro realm of Orwellian double-speak that I don't want to understand.
I'm also reasonably sure that those who insist that I should make the effort to understand it probably don't have my best interests at heart.
Have I missed something?
(Upside: Clearly they've embraced the concept of 'Enterprise'.)
(Downside: Should we take 'five-year mission' to be prophetic?)
I think promoting foundry missions here is perfectly appropriate. I have no horse in this race whatsoever, except that exploration is my favorite aspect of the game. Maybe others will be encouraged to make missions as well.
Of course I prefer that the game would replace these missions also.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I disagree that the Featured Episodes don't include exploration.
In fact, the very mission that introduces us to the Dyson Sphere Gateway is pure exploration. We look behind an Iconian Gateway and find something where no man has gone before. Maybe some aliens have gone t here before, but to us, it's all new.
I will agree that many missions are more focused on advancing story lines then focusnig on exploration, but both can be done. And DS9 is part of Star Trek, too - you didn't really go into new regions (and new stuff tended to come to you.)
---
Also, I think people that worry about Foundry authors not being "compensated" for their effort. I can't speak for all of them, but for me - if I decide to make a Foundry mission, making that mission, telling my story, that's where the fun is coming from. Being able to express a Startrek Story in more than just some fan-writing - but do it as something interactive, that others will see.
And you have to remember - even if you're not a Foundry other, as a player in an MMO, you are always a content provider, unless you solo exclusively and never ever use stuff like the Exchange or chat.
You don't get "compensated" for building a gruff Klingon Captain, for playing an Elite STF with me or helping complete a Voth Battlezone. Except by the fun that this activity actually brought you. But you are a prerequisite for me and others to enjoy this type of content. Doing the Voth Battlezone alone is not possible (maybe Elite STF may be - but probably not if you never read any guides and try to figure out the whole game for yourself.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I disagree that the Featured Episodes don't include exploration.
In fact, the very mission that introduces us to the Dyson Sphere Gateway is pure exploration. We look behind an Iconian Gateway and find something where no man has gone before. Maybe some aliens have gone t here before, but to us, it's all new.
I will agree that many missions are more focused on advancing story lines then focusnig on exploration, but both can be done. And DS9 is part of Star Trek, too - you didn't really go into new regions (and new stuff tended to come to you.)
---
Also, I think people that worry about Foundry authors not being "compensated" for their effort. I can't speak for all of them, but for me - if I decide to make a Foundry mission, making that mission, telling my story, that's where the fun is coming from. Being able to express a Startrek Story in more than just some fan-writing - but do it as something interactive, that others will see.
And you have to remember - even if you're not a Foundry other, as a player in an MMO, you are always a content provider, unless you solo exclusively and never ever use stuff like the Exchange or chat.
You don't get "compensated" for building a gruff Klingon Captain, for playing an Elite STF with me or helping complete a Voth Battlezone. Except by the fun that this activity actually brought you. But you are a prerequisite for me and others to enjoy this type of content. Doing the Voth Battlezone alone is not possible (maybe Elite STF may be - but probably not if you never read any guides and try to figure out the whole game for yourself.)
There is a difference. As thelatter, it's optional.
Since the game ins't a true dynamic sandbox MMO I tend to disagree because your actions does not truly affect the storyline of the game. I think when the game was started it was suppose to eventually be that way.
For example, Eve Online you change the conditions of the game based on your actions basically changing the content.
Now the huge problem is Cryptic will mandate exploratoin content creation to players which makes them Crytic Star Trek Online content Developers. In that case with any software development you should get paid cold hard cash.
I admire Kirksplat but at the same time, he or she should get paid cash from Cryptic for making the Exploration content. Period!
This is an STO issue but I think it says a lot about what Cryptic defines certain parts of their games as useless. Sure it doesn't have super quality missions to do, but the whole purpose of that part of the game was to explore places that has random missions applied every once in a while to acquire materials without having to rely on the queue system. It was places to go as an alternative for players who want to go about farming casually with small variations to the same few missions.
I think its safe to say now that Cryptic doesn't want randomly generated missions to be a part of any of their games with a move like this.
"While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something youre excited to be playing every week."
I feel that having such Explorable Clusters in a game (no matter how useless) makes that world feel more vast. And removing it from a game that boasts "To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before", this is ludicrous.
I feel sorry for your loss of content, STO. The player community of Champions Online can relate.
kirksplat, your Foundry missions tend to be awesome and your tutorials for the otherwise byzantine Foundry UI are tres nifty.
That said, I find your self-promotion-at-the-expense-of-the-community to be extremely vexing in this instance. As awesome as it might be for you if we all relied on your content, it might be less awesome for the rest of the community as a whole in the long run.
If you can't understand that, well...then it's almost definitely less awesome for everyone but you.
Not sure I really understand. I can't rely on Cryptic's useless Foundry UI to get plays. I have to self-promote my missions. Every author does, unless they are happy with 1 review every 3 months. Sorry to spam you, but I have little choice.
It sounds like you'd rather not have anyone try to make Foundry content that satisfies your exploration cravings, because you're pissed at Cryptic.
Not sure I really understand. I can't rely on Cryptic's useless Foundry UI to get plays. I have to self-promote my missions. Every author does, unless they are happy with 1 review every 3 months. Sorry to spam you, but I have little choice.
It sounds like you'd rather not have anyone try to make Foundry content that satisfies your exploration cravings, because you're pissed at Cryptic.
Reminds me how the foundry with serious authors have to put in so many hours of time into a mission just for it to look semi decent as much as you can with season 1 and 2 looking assets and UI. It seems like that UI is just a tool for trolls on ignore as a place to annoy the TRIBBLE out of people lol.
It sounds like you'd rather not have anyone try to make Foundry content that satisfies your exploration cravings, because you're pissed at Cryptic.
I'm sure he and I, along with a few others, are indeed highly upset with Cryptic decision to remove "Exploration" from the game. I certainly understand that you can't rely on Cryptic's useless Foundry UI to get plays on your missions. But nor can we rely on the public to produce, much less produce quality missions on a reoccurring bases. I think we all want quality "exploration" and features in the game. The question is just how can we go about accomplishing that goal. I envision a universe that goes beyond what we have today and I have explained that vision to a limited degree within these forums. My point is you and the other authors produce missions. Missions in of itself is not "Exploration". I realize authors need to self promote, but some of our opinions this is really not the place or the time, for some of us it feels like you are "ambulance chasing" if you get my drift.
"Exploration" also include traveling, seeing, discovering new people, places and things. This includes the journey in getting there. I still don't understand why we cannot have a universe that is similar to "EVE's" in size. Not every solar system has to have life in it. Exploration can include the discovery and classification of suns, planets and Asteroids as well. Missions help bring the game to life but it is not the only thing. Why can we be randomly jumped in the further reaches of space by raiders or hostile aliens? Why must I see all those areas in our current sectors that have deep space encounters that are no challenge to my ship and crew? The followers of Star Trek regardless of the series, movies or books provides a wide market for this game. But if Cryptic/Perfect World continues to turn this game into a constant grids, series of sales pitches, to continuously seek profit without any improving this game's content then it will lose its paying customer base. It will certainly take some time to get this game where would like to see it but developer needs to listen to it's customers. With today's large hard drives, hard drive space is cheap. So that cannot be an excuse, I would like to know what the developer envision and I would like for them to consider our desires since we fund it.
Exploration is the act of searching for the purpose of discovery of information or resources, at least according to Wiki. Exploration in Star Trek, at its core, was about the discovery of information about the universe we lived told as a story primarily through the exploration of our own humanity.
Scanning an anomoly was secondary to how we as explorers handled a situation when that anomoly threw us into a time loop, or sucked us into a sub space vortex with no way of escape.
So yes, the foundry is exploration. Far more so than anything I have seen from a sinlge FE mission I've played. Sure some of them are farming and some are...weird. But come on, Star Trek IS fan fiction, created by the biggest fan of "wouldn't it be cool if...", "what would happen if..." Every episode of Star Trek was written by fans of Gene's idea. Nearly all of TNG was a retelling of some mid/early century story or fable.
Scanning anomolies just to scan them is documentation and observation. It is the scientific method. It is the grind and busy work and science which MAY be associated with exploration. And no video game is going to provide the level of realism in physics, biology, chemistry and astronomy to allow you to explore actual real and endless phenomena. Not happening.
If it's the flying around and getting into something new you are looking for then scan the Foundry (which is exploration itself) and select some missions which start in various systems, then rather than flying in an empty space fly through sector space and explore what stories foundry authors can tell.
But I have a hard time believing that many in the pro exploration clusters camp would bother if there was no accolades or something game specific to be gained (purple doffs, material/dil farm, some exploit). I'm mean, come on man...how many times can you scan the same 5 things and not get completely bored out of your mind?
There isn't a single Star Trek episode ever made where its an hour of scanning particle traces, flying through empty space with no story. Not one. But there are plenty of stories which are about the exploration of self, humanity, culture which happen to take place in space. Cryptic isn't giving you that kind of content. Because their role is to make the blockbuster star trek movie with excitement and adventure.
GREAT SCOTT MAN!!! I think you're on to something! Right on target!
YES, I will sort of miss the "old" exploration clusters for the "strange new worlds";
However, if scanning for data samples & particle traces is SO important, just do a System Patrol at "pretty much" ANY random star system, Tau Dewa block for example (each system you can patrol has 2 anomalies to be scanned), or simply do an Episode mission replay JUST for the scanning (in - scan - out - DONE --- wash - rinse - repeat).
I will Most Certainly miss the Doff Mission U/I --- "new & UN-improved" one looks too clunky.
And there's an Infinite Probability/Improbability (TM) that I will NOT touch any crafting system with a 10 Parsec-pole (if my calculations are correct, that would be at least 40 light years; One Helluva long pole:D) Hey, maybe the Devs will let us "craft" a 10 parsec-pole made of Unobtainium (TM) that can be mounted on the "Bow" of a Starship to be used as a "Lance":D
Jousting at 10 parsecs anyone?;)
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They explored a number of times in the delta quadrant. For that matter they explored the wormhole itself and encountered the beings there mostly peacefully. The Ferengi opened trade routes in the delta quadrant. Lots of different groups surveyed unknown planets - founded colonies etc. There was a lot of exploration in and related to DS9.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It had quite a lot of exploration of various kinds... And wars and large-scale battles. Which is part of why I liked it so much. If STO could strike the same balance, rather than being a game about just killing things with fancy technology, then I'd probably actually start playing again.
DS9 was the Gamma Quadrant and Voyager was the Delta Quadrant. But suffice to say it is looking like much the community is against the move to scrap the clusters and should be put to a community vote to decide the fate of these side missions. If the votes swing towards keeping it, temporarily remove the clusters but turn them into doors while the devs can improve the missions that can be obtained. If there is not enough interest and the votes swing towards scrapping the clusters, then just turn them into doors for the foundry. Exploration is part of basic Star Trek lore and seeing as the MMO is based on that lore, this is a very sensitive subject in this case and the community should have been consulted beforehand to gauge the reactions to the news and before the green light had been given.
And there is less and less exploration to do in game.
We want to explore to discover new culture, new items, new place. Clusters were also part of that.
We want a community vote, although I'm pretty sure lots of players don't care about that.
This game is becoming like most of other mmo's, only fashion is important, having all ships, all looks and the stories, the history is becoming less important and that's really sad
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They could...
Take those crappy missions, delete most of them and rework a handful of them, say 20, to fix them. Later create better, more interesting missions.
It's usually easier to fix something that almost works than to recreate the wheel. Most of the problems with the missions are the landing party position being underground, too many objects on some maps to render all objects (usually the BOffs) and doorway frames being too big for NPCs to get around.
Start with 20, then each month Christine/Kestral (sp?) writes some short stories, simple ones, then they build simple maps around them.
But honestly, this is still man-hours, and therefore, money put into something that doesn't bring in money.
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I actually agree, up to a point. But it could be.
Flying up to an exploration point and then being forced to manually search for a mission that might not even start there? No good.
Being thrust into a random 1.5 hour Foundry mission when you just want to kill 15 minutes? No good.
If this provides the impetus to bring the Foundry up to the Neverwinter standard and beyond, then maybe. But it has to be Trek. It can't be a retread of D&D tropes. Cryptic has to figure out a way to give us honest to goodness exploration and not just another version of "kill 10 orcs" or "click 5 barrels".
Basically, they ought to provide Foundry authors with the tools to create mini Adventure zones in the New Romulus tradition, complete with optionals, hooks for DOFF assignments, local hazards, and placed objects like NW has got. New kinds of NPC interactions, too, and better customization of NPC's.
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I was going to suggest something along these lines -- creating a "best of" exploration missions, with some "remastering". Let's face it, many of the exploration missions follow a simple formula, which makes them very similar. Getting rid of the "duplicates" would reduce the number dramatically.
We have none of that in sto. the longest pve mission is like 15 mn.
It's just becoming more and more a farming marks-dil game.
The price on dilithium exchange increase non stop and cryptic and especially pwe are happy about that as it means more and more players put real money in game to have zen and get fewer and fewer dilithium.
Without exploration, without long battle, long mission it's decreasing it's attraction level for real and long time player.
My friend list is less and less active. I had 10-20 friends online 1 year ago, now if I have 4 it's a maximum and it's getting worse and worse.
while typing there is 10 player in Azure Nebula, 50 in Crystalline Elite, 60 in ISE, 60 in KSE, 5 in undine, 5 in storming the spire, 5 in the breach, a few in normal pve and that's all.....
I'm pretty sure a lot of people like what is the game now and don't care at all about exploration, just want to dress their characters like their favourite character on screen, having also all ships, etc
but seriously since a lot of time, cryptic has take a bad turn rate allowing us to have ennemies ships was the 1st mistake.
I'm really disapointed of what is done and althought I was waiting for long to have a new crafting system as I like crafting a lot in all game I'm playing, but I don't know if i'll really continue to play the game as I don't find no pleasure anymore.
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I agree. I'm growing more and more fustrated with this game. I saw your blog. Is that a game you are working on? I'm making something using Urho3D also personally based on Star Trek.
It's just a simple story involving no combat and exploration. It's a self contained story. That is all I will say:
It's in the review stage. "Explore Delta Volanis, Mission 1." It won't give any rewards until it "counts." Click review tab and search "kirkfat"
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Until now to get ressources you just needed to go to a cluster and scan annomalies to get them.
but now it will be pack in the c-store !!!
There is also other way to get them but don't know in how many wuantities we will have them, but for big crafters that will need a lot they 'll be pushed to buy them with zen
What makes me worried also is the duty nofficers chain assignement "Support Cluster" with the purple doff as reward on crit.
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none of these mission are going away, if you read the blog it mentions this all you have to do is go to the associated spot of the clusters and bingo you have all the DOff missions we had before the clusters were gone some mission have been changed to work with the new system but all in all they are all still there, go try tribble and you will see this, or just wait till the update.
Exploration is the act of searching for the purpose of discovery of information or resources, at least according to Wiki. Exploration in Star Trek, at its core, was about the discovery of information about the universe we lived told as a story primarily through the exploration of our own humanity.
Scanning an anomoly was secondary to how we as explorers handled a situation when that anomoly threw us into a time loop, or sucked us into a sub space vortex with no way of escape.
So yes, the foundry is exploration. Far more so than anything I have seen from a sinlge FE mission I've played. Sure some of them are farming and some are...weird. But come on, Star Trek IS fan fiction, created by the biggest fan of "wouldn't it be cool if...", "what would happen if..." Every episode of Star Trek was written by fans of Gene's idea. Nearly all of TNG was a retelling of some mid/early century story or fable.
Scanning anomolies just to scan them is documentation and observation. It is the scientific method. It is the grind and busy work and science which MAY be associated with exploration. And no video game is going to provide the level of realism in physics, biology, chemistry and astronomy to allow you to explore actual real and endless phenomena. Not happening.
If it's the flying around and getting into something new you are looking for then scan the Foundry (which is exploration itself) and select some missions which start in various systems, then rather than flying in an empty space fly through sector space and explore what stories foundry authors can tell.
But I have a hard time believing that many in the pro exploration clusters camp would bother if there was no accolades or something game specific to be gained (purple doffs, material/dil farm, some exploit). I'm mean, come on man...how many times can you scan the same 5 things and not get completely bored out of your mind?
There isn't a single Star Trek episode ever made where its an hour of scanning particle traces, flying through empty space with no story. Not one. But there are plenty of stories which are about the exploration of self, humanity, culture which happen to take place in space. Cryptic isn't giving you that kind of content. Because their role is to make the blockbuster star trek movie with excitement and adventure.
Yes, the doff missions are still there but you now interact in sector space, soooooo . . . no more bridge invites for Colonization missions. They seems they want to reduce the speed which we acquire free doffs!
Yes. They were not up to standards. But why, is the question you need to ask Cryptic. It's because they abandoned the Genesis Engine after the launch. It should have gotten more assets and missions put in to it to make the missions more random and give us new mission parameters to complete. They should have made the rewards from exploring match those of doing STFs. Then people would have kept playing them. Leaving it at a handful of different missions types is what made the exploration clusters so tiresome.
As for the whole getting lost thing. Address that then by making a better and more easily navigated map. Because the Dyson Zone map is way more messy then any of the exploration maps ever was.
I agree with your opinion.
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Hmmm. I agree but I disagree.
The first problem is foundry can be made to be more exploration if you have a exploration space and random events like scan unknown system starts a foundry mission.
The problem is who qualifies a mission for exploration and what qualifies what a good exploration foundry missioThe problem is who qualifies a mission for exploration and what qualifies what a good exploration foundry mission is. I think because Cryptic have to get CBS permission of what's Start Trek that they need apaid employees to verify content. Additionally, have 100's of foundry missions would take hard drive. The precious thing preventing people to trail this game grindfest.
The second problem with this is. Those people who created stories for Star Trek movies, televisions shows, comics, and merchandise got PAID. It's clear the Cryptic is not compensating Foundry missions developers. Here is the kicker people pay for game development and now passing the development buck on the players for free while they get money and lots of it.
n is. I think because Cryptic have to get CBS permission of what's Start Trek that they need apaid employees to verify content. Additionally, have 100's of foundry missions would take hard drive. The precious thing preventing people to trail this game grindfest.
The second problem with this is. Those people who created stories for Star Trek movies, televisions shows, comics, and merchandise got PAID. It's clear the Cryptic is not compensating Foundry missions. Here is the kicker people pay for game development and now passing the development buck on the players for free while they get money and lots of it.
The last part about Cryptic creating a blockbluster Star Trek. That's not happening.
As Cryptic continue to remove content starting Season 9 and nerf. It started a while ago but became clear with the reputation system trait cap, removal of missions and episodes, and now removal of exploration clusters. They will continue to remove content and add monetization to every aspect of the game. While adding grindfest galour. Whoever says they will add it back, it's not happening either.
Cryptic only goal and purpose is making money from the game even if it's turning to a lightweight World of ******** - Neverwinter pew pew fest. Period.
So...take 2.
On one mission. By the ostensible poster-boy of Foundry creators.
Well, sure. I feel better already. What could go wrong...?
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kirksplat, your Foundry missions tend to be awesome and your tutorials for the otherwise byzantine Foundry UI are tres nifty.
That said, I find your self-promotion-at-the-expense-of-the-community to be extremely vexing in this instance. As awesome as it might be for you if we all relied on your content, it might be less awesome for the rest of the community as a whole in the long run.
If you can't understand that, well...then it's almost definitely less awesome for everyone but you.
TO BE CLEAR No. I'm not comfortable relying on you to produce Exploration content. ESPECIALLY based on the quote above, although thank you for the update!
I'm HAPPY to support your efforts as a member of the player community, even as you promote the interests of that community.
I'm less sanguine about indulging your efforts to promote yourself at the expense of that community. Which is frankly how your comments here have come across to me, whatever your actual intentions.
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"Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages the U.S.S. Enterprise. It's five-year mission: To <REDACTED FOR QUALITY> life forms. To <REDACTED FOR QUALITY> worlds and civilizations. To boldly go <REDACTED FOR QUALITY>."
I think once you've abandoned the literal mission statement of your IP in order to preserve its integrity you've entered some sort of bizarro realm of Orwellian double-speak that I don't want to understand.
I'm also reasonably sure that those who insist that I should make the effort to understand it probably don't have my best interests at heart.
Have I missed something?
(Upside: Clearly they've embraced the concept of 'Enterprise'.)
(Downside: Should we take 'five-year mission' to be prophetic?)
(Edited for acuity)
Of course I prefer that the game would replace these missions also.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
In fact, the very mission that introduces us to the Dyson Sphere Gateway is pure exploration. We look behind an Iconian Gateway and find something where no man has gone before. Maybe some aliens have gone t here before, but to us, it's all new.
I will agree that many missions are more focused on advancing story lines then focusnig on exploration, but both can be done. And DS9 is part of Star Trek, too - you didn't really go into new regions (and new stuff tended to come to you.)
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Also, I think people that worry about Foundry authors not being "compensated" for their effort. I can't speak for all of them, but for me - if I decide to make a Foundry mission, making that mission, telling my story, that's where the fun is coming from. Being able to express a Startrek Story in more than just some fan-writing - but do it as something interactive, that others will see.
And you have to remember - even if you're not a Foundry other, as a player in an MMO, you are always a content provider, unless you solo exclusively and never ever use stuff like the Exchange or chat.
You don't get "compensated" for building a gruff Klingon Captain, for playing an Elite STF with me or helping complete a Voth Battlezone. Except by the fun that this activity actually brought you. But you are a prerequisite for me and others to enjoy this type of content. Doing the Voth Battlezone alone is not possible (maybe Elite STF may be - but probably not if you never read any guides and try to figure out the whole game for yourself.)
There is a difference. As thelatter, it's optional.
Since the game ins't a true dynamic sandbox MMO I tend to disagree because your actions does not truly affect the storyline of the game. I think when the game was started it was suppose to eventually be that way.
For example, Eve Online you change the conditions of the game based on your actions basically changing the content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL774S-_ixs
Now the huge problem is Cryptic will mandate exploratoin content creation to players which makes them Crytic Star Trek Online content Developers. In that case with any software development you should get paid cold hard cash.
I admire Kirksplat but at the same time, he or she should get paid cash from Cryptic for making the Exploration content. Period!
This is an STO issue but I think it says a lot about what Cryptic defines certain parts of their games as useless. Sure it doesn't have super quality missions to do, but the whole purpose of that part of the game was to explore places that has random missions applied every once in a while to acquire materials without having to rely on the queue system. It was places to go as an alternative for players who want to go about farming casually with small variations to the same few missions.
I think its safe to say now that Cryptic doesn't want randomly generated missions to be a part of any of their games with a move like this.
"While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something youre excited to be playing every week."
I feel that having such Explorable Clusters in a game (no matter how useless) makes that world feel more vast. And removing it from a game that boasts "To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before", this is ludicrous.
I feel sorry for your loss of content, STO. The player community of Champions Online can relate.
Not sure I really understand. I can't rely on Cryptic's useless Foundry UI to get plays. I have to self-promote my missions. Every author does, unless they are happy with 1 review every 3 months. Sorry to spam you, but I have little choice.
It sounds like you'd rather not have anyone try to make Foundry content that satisfies your exploration cravings, because you're pissed at Cryptic.
Reminds me how the foundry with serious authors have to put in so many hours of time into a mission just for it to look semi decent as much as you can with season 1 and 2 looking assets and UI. It seems like that UI is just a tool for trolls on ignore as a place to annoy the TRIBBLE out of people lol.
I'm sure he and I, along with a few others, are indeed highly upset with Cryptic decision to remove "Exploration" from the game. I certainly understand that you can't rely on Cryptic's useless Foundry UI to get plays on your missions. But nor can we rely on the public to produce, much less produce quality missions on a reoccurring bases. I think we all want quality "exploration" and features in the game. The question is just how can we go about accomplishing that goal. I envision a universe that goes beyond what we have today and I have explained that vision to a limited degree within these forums. My point is you and the other authors produce missions. Missions in of itself is not "Exploration". I realize authors need to self promote, but some of our opinions this is really not the place or the time, for some of us it feels like you are "ambulance chasing" if you get my drift.
"Exploration" also include traveling, seeing, discovering new people, places and things. This includes the journey in getting there. I still don't understand why we cannot have a universe that is similar to "EVE's" in size. Not every solar system has to have life in it. Exploration can include the discovery and classification of suns, planets and Asteroids as well. Missions help bring the game to life but it is not the only thing. Why can we be randomly jumped in the further reaches of space by raiders or hostile aliens? Why must I see all those areas in our current sectors that have deep space encounters that are no challenge to my ship and crew? The followers of Star Trek regardless of the series, movies or books provides a wide market for this game. But if Cryptic/Perfect World continues to turn this game into a constant grids, series of sales pitches, to continuously seek profit without any improving this game's content then it will lose its paying customer base. It will certainly take some time to get this game where would like to see it but developer needs to listen to it's customers. With today's large hard drives, hard drive space is cheap. So that cannot be an excuse, I would like to know what the developer envision and I would like for them to consider our desires since we fund it.
GREAT SCOTT MAN!!! I think you're on to something! Right on target!
YES, I will sort of miss the "old" exploration clusters for the "strange new worlds";
However, if scanning for data samples & particle traces is SO important, just do a System Patrol at "pretty much" ANY random star system, Tau Dewa block for example (each system you can patrol has 2 anomalies to be scanned), or simply do an Episode mission replay JUST for the scanning (in - scan - out - DONE --- wash - rinse - repeat).
I will Most Certainly miss the Doff Mission U/I --- "new & UN-improved" one looks too clunky.
And there's an Infinite Probability/Improbability (TM) that I will NOT touch any crafting system with a 10 Parsec-pole (if my calculations are correct, that would be at least 40 light years; One Helluva long pole:D) Hey, maybe the Devs will let us "craft" a 10 parsec-pole made of Unobtainium (TM) that can be mounted on the "Bow" of a Starship to be used as a "Lance":D
Jousting at 10 parsecs anyone?;)