It's disappointing for reasons that so many people have already stated: It was a different way to play the game that wasn't centered on the equally redundant and distressingly militant story arcs, episodes and queues. It had some randomness and a totally different feel of hopeful exploration and discovery.
By removing this, it seems that you're essentially removing from STO the unique thematic core of the IP. The thing that makes it different from all other sci-fi - an optimistic view of humanity's future.
Doing this without even attempting to improve or enhance the current system seems...questionable.
An alternative approach would be to improve the system somehow. A couple of suggestions have been made:
1) Improve the system in-house
ADD more random missions and more random aliens. How about a dozen missions in each category that all seem to start the same, but take different directions as each progresses? Maybe some lead into story arcs or first contacts? How about some random alien and critter generation? Environmental threats?
2) Open it up to the Foundry
Not a bad plan. As others have mentioned, it would be better if the Foundry were less limited. Not only mission tools, but also things like alien costumes, critters, environmental issues and (why was this not obvious from day 1?) alien ship costumes.
3) Why not leave it in place?
The devs say it's useless and "not up to standards". That's a fine opinion, but maybe not one that is shared by the community that actually, you know, plays the game. It's also not the only useless aspect of the game...so why is this one system getting singled out for redaction? Why not leave the clusters in place until such time as you can develop a better, more satisfactory system?
When I play STO, I like to imagine the Star Trek universe going on somewhere in the background. NOT the Star Trek universe the dev's imagine - with respect and apologies, they're just fans with a bigger soap box than the rest of us. No, I mean the Star Trek I've seen on screen.
A peace-seeking, humanitarian Star Trek.
The Exploration Clusters best represent that aspect of Star Trek in STO. Removing the Clusters, without any effort to enhance or replace them, removes that spirit from STO and in my opinion, for whatever that's worth, would be...ill-advised.
I started playing this game when you had to buy the software and it required a subscription. It 's biggest and most glaring fault was in my opinion the size of the universe and exploration. I hope that the developers will indeed fix it and add other things. I don't know what the designers are planning, but what is the present universe would seem to me would be a great starter area. I would recommend the developers use the "Worm Hole" in the DS9 sector as a gateway to area similar in size to "EVE's" universe.
My suggestion is you would go thru the worm hole and be presented with a totally un-explored area, each solar system you would be able to map out by exploring the planets, moons, asteroid belts, and some could have other worm holes. Some of these planets would contain various life forms with the more rare ones containing intelligent life or civilizations. The area would be a cross between "EVE" and "Earth and Beyond". Some systems could contain Ruins and Relics. I would be also be nice to include a more "Civilian Side" of game play were one could be a Trader. I think the distance between worlds is a too close, I would like to see space travel more like "EVE" in the way distance, time and flight manner. But maintain the set course and off you go. This would bring more meaning to the type of ship I possess in regards to engine speed (Warp Capability), Trans-Warp Drive and those other purchasable speed/travel perks. I think such a long range endeavor would be a positive for the players and the company. It would bring more meaning to becoming a Admiral and even Player Fleets. Maybe we could start a topic regarding ideas in the design of a "Exploration" area? Heck if the developers needed more funds to create such an area I would certainly chip in on top of my subscription.
Ok, so I've sat back from this discussion for a while and I'm quite suprised where it lead. I didn't quite expect to witness this discussion and how mislead some information seems to be. It also took some unexpected turns.
For ex., we have kirksplat who I've never seen post so much in a thread not related to the foundry. Now don't get me wrong kirksplat, I know you're one of the most passionate representatives of the foundry community since like forever.
What I'm actually suprised about is how passionately you're doing the job of the devil's advocate here. Please note that I'm not pointing fingers and it's quite possible that because you're so passionate about the foundry to not have noticed you're doing the devil's advocate job.
What saddens me is that if the current state of the foundry treatment by Cryptic is in such a desparate place, so you're so over the moon for getting some crums thrown at the foundry's direction. I mean seriously - noone is debating the quality of the exploration cluster missions here. I have no doubt for a second that the foundry authors could provide better and more varied missions.
But what Cryptic is doing here is relegating content making to the people who play the game, for their own benefit. They're also doing nothing for the foundry here, but throwing crums. Making foundry doors be availibe? Whoopedy-doo!
Now let me ask you kirksplat, and I'm only pointing you out to ask because you're the most prominent member of the foundry community posting here in this passionate debate (don't want anyone to get the impression I've got sth. against them:o) - can you singlehandedly guarantee the quantity of exploration content provided by the foundry?
Because let's face it - pushing the content that is one of the cumberstones of Star Trek to the foundry is not substainable development. The foundry authors are players of STO as well, they're not obligated for anything. What happens if few days from now Cryptic does something epically craptastic to the foundry, that would make the foundry people rage-quit, hypotheticaly speaking? No exploration in STO?
Again, who can guarantee the amount of exploration related content provided by the foundry. Who can guarantee there'll be a big and ever increasing number of missions? Who'll guarantee me that after a couple of weeks playing exploration related foundry missions I won't run out of new content in that regard?
Then, there is the thing about quality. Frankly, in my eyes, attaching foundry doors to the clusters in their "new" incarnation is Season 9.5 doesn't do anything much. Granted I only played around in the foundry for a while (don't have enough time to really devote myslef), but I'm pretty sure a foundry door is just a place you can select your mission to start from. So currently there is no guarantee of the quality of content with a starting point in a cluster, furthermore there's no guarantee it would be exploration related at all. I can put a starting point to my mission in Delta Volanis that will then take you to ESD after the loading screen and your objective will be to dance on Quinn's desk.
As far as I'm aware, the STO team assigned to the foundry currently numbers 0 people! So there's noone to implement a mechanisc specifically for exploration related foundry missions, there's noone to quality check and approve missions that would be treated as 'exploration' which would start in the clusters, in fact there's noone to do anything. Except put a door there.
See where I'm going with this?
The issue at hand here is that they're removing content. Content that regardless of how subpar might have been, was still the closest thing this game had to an actual exploration. Noone's debating quality. Again, I'm not discussing the potential of the Foundry to create more advanced content than the random generator in it's current form.
What is troublesome here is that the game developer is wahsing their hands from a type of content that is the premise of the entire franchise they own a licence to, and outsource the creation of said profile of content to a completely unsustainable source. A source which they have neglected and mislead since the launch of STO, a source that is still in 'beta', a source that gets nothing but crums once in a blue moon, but a source they obviously have no problem falling back to when it takes their collective posteriors out of trouble.
Now there are people saying that since they're removing this, there surely must be a new exploration system right around the corner. This is nothing more than wishfull thinking. As others have said on multiple ocassions, there's no correspondence from Cryptic that would indicate such a thing. For what we know, there is the same amount of chace that Ex.2 will be about exploration as there is a chance to be just another rep.grind, a Cardassian faction, a Kazon kill-a-rama or sharks with friggin' photon cannons on their heads. What we do know however is that the exploration system currently in place is being nuked, without any relevant replacement and the foundry pointed out as a cover shield for the developer to waltz away from responsibility.
And if they really have an exploration revamp/expansion or whatever planned for Ex.2 and they're letting this sad and depressive ragefest, losing confidence in Crpytic and losing faith in STO going on - then their PR responsible should flat out get fired, or at least demoted and sent to finish sveral PR courses. I work in marketing for quite a while even though it's not the profession I graduated for and I'm telling you - if I ever allow such a thing to happen on my watch, I'll get the boot. It's that simple.
At the end - fact time: the main and probably only reason they're removing the clusters right now is the crafting revamp. They want to nerf the gathering of crafting resources before the new system hits holodeck, so they can prolongue the completion of the new crafting schools. Don't forget, we're in a D'Angelo era here - the first thing I heard the guy say after becomming the EP (again) was that the Dyson rep. was not grindy enough for him.
What bothers me actually is them not having the courage to admit this and face the music, but rather underestimating our intellingence here by providing some BS excuses like the size of the game or players getting lost in 2D square with a single entry/exit point. If this was the case, they'd remove the clusters when the game went F2P and they expected a bunch of new F2P players who'd "get lost" in the clusters.
They've basically killed exploration so they can nerf material gathering for crafting. People already explained why it's very complicated for them to change this stuff within the clusters and leave them be - and Cryptic, as always ofcourse, is taking the lazy way out. They don't care it's making the game feel smaller and sadder. It's very simple actually. Use your brain people, it's in there for a reason.
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel that some important stuff hapening to the game needs to be discussed.
What saddens me is that if the current state of the foundry treatment by Cryptic is in such a desparate place, so you're so over the moon for getting some crums thrown at the foundry's direction. I mean seriously - noone is debating the quality of the exploration cluster missions here. I have no doubt for a second that the foundry authors could provide better and more varied missions.
But what Cryptic is doing here is relegating content making to the people who play the game, for their own benefit. They're also doing nothing for the foundry here, but throwing crums. Making foundry doors be availibe? Whoopedy-doo!
Now let me ask you kirksplat, and I'm only pointing you out to ask because you're the most prominent member of the foundry community posting here in this passionate debate (don't want anyone to get the impression I've got sth. against them:o) - can you singlehandedly guarantee the quantity of exploration content provided by the foundry?
Because let's face it - pushing the content that is one of the cumberstones of Star Trek to the foundry is not substainable development. The foundry authors are players of STO as well, they're not obligated for anything. What happens if few days from now Cryptic does something epically craptastic to the foundry, that would make the foundry people rage-quit, hypotheticaly speaking? No exploration in STO?
Again, who can guarantee the amount of exploration related content provided by the foundry. Who can guarantee there'll be a big and ever increasing number of missions? Who'll guarantee me that after a couple of weeks playing exploration related foundry missions I won't run out of new content in that regard?
Then, there is the thing about quality. Frankly, in my eyes, attaching foundry doors to the clusters in their "new" incarnation is Season 9.5 doesn't do anything much. Granted I only played around in the foundry for a while (don't have enough time to really devote myslef), but I'm pretty sure a foundry door is just a place you can select your mission to start from. So currently there is no guarantee of the quality of content with a starting point in a cluster, furthermore there's no guarantee it would be exploration related at all. I can put a starting point to my mission in Delta Volanis that will then take you to ESD after the loading screen and your objective will be to dance on Quinn's desk.
As far as I'm aware, the STO team assigned to the foundry currently numbers 0 people! So there's noone to implement a mechanisc specifically for exploration related foundry missions, there's noone to quality check and approve missions that would be treated as 'exploration' which would start in the clusters, in fact there's noone to do anything. Except put a door there.
See where I'm going with this?
I'm not sure where to start with a response to this post. Look, if you've followed my long history of pretty much raging and flaming the devs, you'll know that I'm not exactly a cheerleader for Cryptic producers. A lot of my motivation and support for the Foundry comes down to the statement: "You call this Star Trek? Really? You call this Star Trek? Here, this is Star Trek. Take notes, please." There are notable exceptions to the dev content, from excellent FEs to the Romulan expansion, etc. But, the vast majority of "content" in this game has been MMO filler, not Star Trek lore of storytelling. You're lucky to get a story-related cutscene from the Dyson sphere stuff.
I have far more faith in the ability of fans to tell stories that capture the essence of Star Trek exploration than I do with metric-driven producers who don't have a problem letting players fly Borg cubes. I have faith in the ability of fans to enrich the lore of this universe, when the overarching story arch of the producers is catered to justify a new lockbox or adventure zone.
Yes, the Foundry has been treated like an ugly and neglected stepchild. Yes, it is pretty insulting that they are spinning the Foundry as lining up with core design principles when 0 people on the STO team have Foundry in their job description. Yes, the history of the Foundry and its beta state is not exactly an encouraging reason for players to even try to make content for this game. Plus, nobody can really find that content, even if they try.
What I can guarantee is based not on any confidence in Cryptic, its commitment to Foundry, or any real belief that they'll do anything besides hook up doors as a convenient justification for removing the clusters. What I will say, based solely on my belief in the power of Star Trek fans, is that we can make exploration better than anything done by a blender, or a reputation bucket, or a rinse and repeat pew pew mission made by the devs. We can make exploration feel like exploration. I promise you that, because I know that most authors simply want to tell engaging stories set in the universe of Star Trek. We aren't giving you reasons to do some repetitive task for a .005 point increase in your flight turn rate or a few new plants on your castle.
We're doing what we can with the only game that we have to work with at the moment. I'm not ready to give up hope on the power and creativity of Star Trek fans, even if I have little faith in the dev team, despite some "skunk work" support by certain devs like Taco or QA support from Cryptic Frost.
This is my analogy of the logic that Cryptic seems to be using, from my perspective, to "improve" STO:
According to Cryptic, they want to remove the Exploration Clusters because the missions are not up to the standards of quality of the other missions of the game. It also takes up too much hard drive space on end-users systems, driving away new players.
Ok, so Cryptic gives you a car (STO as a basic representation of Star Trek canon) with tires shaped like hexagons - it's tires are not perfected, they are a work in progress, but it gets you to where you need to go... roughly. After a while, they design better tires that are octagon shaped. They are not perfect yet but they are rounder.
Each one of the tires are called Episodes, Reputation System, Crafting and Exploration.
The first tire was called Episodes gets replaced with better Episodes (left front) - it's definitely a little smoother ride.
Next to be replaced was Reputation System (the right-front tire,) it's a little over inflated and wears down more due to "grinding" but there are more new ones coming every other month to replace it.
Next one to be replaced is called Crafting (right-rear tire) but Cryptic figures that since the Exploration tire shares the same axle as Crafting, Exploration is not really necessary. Crafting can hold up the back of the car. Exploration was an ugly tire anyways. So the plan is to replace Crafting but remove the wheel for Exploration altogether.
You ask Cryptic why only one wheel in back, car were meant to have 4 wheels and tires?!
Cryptic says this way they don't need to maintain as many tires and as long as you only make left turns or go straight carefully, besides that, new potential car owners say that the car is too heavy, so without the extra wheel and tire, the car is lighter.
Yes, the car was meant to do right turns too but it's not really necessary, so Cryptic says, "Trust us and carry on."
At this point, some people say the car is better without that fourth wheel, that tire is REALLY ugly. Other say, even though the tire was ugly, the car worked the way it was meant to.
(They haven't worked out the "bugs" yet to be able to make round tires yet. It's a work in progress...)
NOTE: Excuse me if I got the physics wrong, it should still get the point across. I hope you at least found my analogy entertaining.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
I'm not sure where to start with a response to this post. Look, if you've followed my long history of pretty much raging and flaming the devs, you'll know that I'm not exactly a cheerleader for Cryptic producers. A lot of my motivation and support for the Foundry comes down to the statement: "You call this Star Trek? Really? You call this Star Trek? Here, this is Star Trek. Take notes, please." There are notable exception to the dev content, from excellent FEs to the Romulan expansion,etc. But, the vast majority of "content" in this game has been MMO filler, not Star Trek lore of storytelling. You're lucky to get a story-related cutscene from the Dyson sphere stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're not a Cryptic cheerleader, I tried to make that clear as much as I could.
What I said is that it looks like you're playing the devil's advocate job by encouraging the swapping of the clusters with foundry content (for the right reasons I know), but it comes off as a loud support for the current decsion being made, without firstly doing the following that relates to the second part I'll quote here:
Yes, the Foundry has been treated like an ugly and neglected stepchild. Yes, it is pretty insulting that they are spinning the Foundry as lining up with core design principles when 0 people on the STO team have Foundry in their job description. Yes, the history of the Foundry and its beta state is not exactly an encouraging reason for players to even try to make content for this game. Plus, nobody can really find that content, even if they try.
Basically they're saying that the foundry needs to do this work for them, without providing the foundry authors even the basic necessary stuff to make it happen. I have no doubt for the foundry authors' abilities, what I have an issue with is them just simply removing content without any replacement and without prviding tools for the people that are suposed to create that replacement.
It basically comes off as:
"We're nuking the exploration in STO!" "But Cryptic, the exploration is the basic premise of ST, you can't do that!" "Well, go to kirksplat if you want exploration" "But kirksplat doesn't have all the tools from you to make it happen on a really quality level" "Uhm...tools...schmools........oh look a new Xindi lockbox!!!"
I have far more faith in the ability of fans to tell stories that capture the essence of Star Trek exploration than I do with metric-driven producers who don't have a problem letting players fly Borg cubes. I have faith in the ability of fans to enrich the lore of this universe, when the overarching story arch of the producers is catered to justify a new lockbox or adventure zone.
No arguments from me here, I'm also pretty sure that every person that dedicated his time and effort to make a foundry mission (that is not a grinder, but a true story content) has much love and passion for the franchise and the work he/she's doing.
Certainly more than Cryptic lately it seems.
What I can guarantee is based not on any confidence in Cryptic, its commitment to Foundry, or any real belief that they'll do anything besides hook up doors as a convenient justification for removing the clusters. What I will say, based solely on my belief in the power of Star Trek fans, is that we can make exploration better than anything done by a blender, or a reputation bucket, or a rinse and repeat pew pew mission made by the devs. We can make exploration feel like exploration. I promise you that, because I know that most authors simply want to tell engaging stories set in the universe of Star Trek. We aren't giving you reasons to do some repetitive task for a .005 point increase in your flight turn rate or a few new plants on your castle.
Again, I don't doubt the ability of foundry authors to provide engaging content, in many instances more engaging than what's been provided in the game by the developer.
What I'm questioning is the amount of content that the foundry can create in a period of time (I have no idea how many missions does the foundry give birth to over a period of time or if there is a way to measure this in game) in order to fill the expectation of closing the gaping hole in terms of exploration, especially opened now after they're killing the clusters.
I'm also questioning the quality of said content, not in terms of the quality of the stories told by the authors, but how accesible they are, how conected to exploration and the clusters both are they as well as wheather they're lost in a cacaphony of 'Admiral Bobo' and other grinders.
We're doing what we can with the only game that we have to work with at the moment. I'm not ready to give up hope on the power and creativity of Star Trek fans, even if I have little faith in the dev team, despite some "skunk work" support by certain devs like Taco or Cryptic Frost.
I know you guys do. And I know authors that have created some remarkable content. As a KDF player, the foundry has been my source of content for quite a while filling the empty space left there by Cryptic until recently. And even now.
What I'm saying is that is sucks royally on Cryptic's behalf to leave the foundry as the only venue for exploration content, while at the same time not moving even their small finger to do something about the foundry and provide the tools you guys need to truly make experiences that will feel like exploration and not a list of missions for me to search from.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're not a Cryptic cheerleader, I tried to make that clear as much as I could.
What I said is that it looks like you're playing the devil's advocate job by encouraging the swapping of the clusters with foundry content (for the right reasons I know), but it comes off as a loud support for the current decsion being made, without firstly doing the following that relates to the second part I'll quote here:
Basically they're saying that the foundry needs to do this work for them, without providing the foundry authors even the basic necessary stuff to make it happen. I have no doubt for the foundry authors' abilities, what I have an issue with is them just simply removing content without any replacement and without prviding tools for the people that are suposed to create that replacement.
It basically comes off as:
"We're nuking the exploration in STO!" "But Cryptic, the exploration is the basic premise of ST, you can't do that!" "Well, go to kirksplat if you want exploration" "But kirksplat doesn't have all the tools from you to make it happen on a really quality level" "Uhm...tools...schmools........oh look a new Xindi lockbox!!!"
No arguments from me here, I'm also pretty sure that every person that dedicated his time and effort to make a foundry mission (that is not a grinder, but a true story content) has much love and passion for the franchise and the work he/she's doing.
Certainly more than Cryptic lately it seems.
Again, I don't doubt the ability of foundry authors to provide engaging content, in many instances more engaging than what's been provided in the game by the developer.
What I'm questioning is the amount of content that the foundry can create in a period of time (I have no idea how many missions does the foundry give birth to over a period of time or if there is a way to measure this in game) in order to fill the expectation of closing the gaping hole in terms of exploration, especially opened now after they're killing the clusters.
I'm also questioning the quality of said content, not in terms of the quality of the stories told by the authors, but how accesible they are, how conected to exploration and the clusters both are they as well as wheather they're lost in a cacaphony of 'Admiral Bobo' and other grinders.
I know you guys do. And I know authors that have created some remarkable content. As a KDF player, the foundry has been my source of content for quite a while filling the empty space left there by Cryptic until recently. And even now.
What I'm saying is that is sucks royally on Cryptic's behalf to leave the foundry as the only venue for exploration content, while at the same time not moving even their small finger to do something about the foundry and provide the tools you guys need to truly make experiences that will feel like exploration and not a list of missions for me to search from.
I can't really argue against your legit concerns here. You have good reasons for raising each question and objection. However, I will say that, despite the lack of support, we can do a lot with the tools that we currently have. We can make missions now that put those cluster missions to shame.
Whether or not people can find those missions is another story. We've been asking for a UI revamp for a long time now, and there is a widely supported alternative that many of us have been requesting for many months. It is Captain Hunter's proposal.
As it stands now, even if many authors spent 2 months really filling in those exploration clusters, players would need to know how to search for the missions, and the lists would only show like the top 50 results. So, it's a big problem that needs to addressed.
But, it doesn't change the potential that we have to really flesh out the clusters, if there is dev support for it. This change, as minimal as it is, could be the first step toward that support. And, there is supposed to be some important Foundry news in the coming days or weeks.
In the end, regardless of the lack or plentitude of dev support, we can still do a lot with what we have. And I think you'll enjoy what we can do, if you can find the missions. Maybe you'll need to rely on a thread in the Foundry section of the forums. Even then, I think the experience will be more enjoyable than the previous clusters or anything that might resemble a Cryptic revamp of a blender.
So, yeah, it will be a challenge. But, I think we are up for it, in spite of the enormous hurdles.
Problem is that they haven't said so far IF they're going to replace both ground & Space Exploration or not.
If they do so. They are going to have to start from scrach and it is going to have to be many times better that they had and could of fix for less than what they are going to spend in the terms of money, time and manhours to replace the former exploration setup.
To me that seams to be a very bad business practice.
I have a dream where CBS gets its head out if *** and laids down the law to both CRYPTIC and PWE and says if you don't clean up your act. The possility of Star Trek Lic renewal for STO will be highly unlikly.
Problem is that they haven't said so far IF they're going to replace both ground & Space Exploration or not.
If they do so. They are going to have to start from scrach and it is going to have to be many times better that they had and could of fix for less than what they are going to spend in the terms of money, time and manhours to replace the former exploration setup.
To me that seams to be a very bad business practice.
I have a dream where CBS gets its head out if *** and laids down the law to both CRYPTIC and PWE and says if you don't clean up your act. The possility of Star Trek Lic renewal for STO will be highly unlikly.
Seeing that they are linking the Foundry to the Clusters, they don't have any plans to replace the Exploration Clusters any time soon.... if ever.
They would have to figure out how to make money from the content or content that would be cheap. Making content is expensive, so they are falling back onto the Foundry.
Reputation content pays for itself since it's just a handful of maps that is repeatedly consumed. Exploration would (ideally) require a lot of unique content that would be consumed once or twice per player.
Even if they came up with a way to automatically generate missions around templates of maps, scripts, textures/skins and other properties, I'm not sure if it would be good quality overall. It might be better than what was there before with the map properties be flushed out.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
To the question "WHY remove content?"
The dev post was fairly clear on that...they want to increase the average quality of the game. Cluster missions were below that bar. They weren't removed before because
a) when endgame content was scarse, removing these missions was out of the question, though the concept was flawed already at the time the game came out. Despite being called "exploration" the missions are nothng like that.
b) they still served as a way to gather crafting material. With the new crafting system implementing and with it a new way to gain crafting material, the "exploration missions" lost that purpose too.
What remains are repeating missions with very poor gameplay quality...and as any good doctor would suggest, when something serves no purpose and is generaly making the rest of the body sick, you cut it out. Plain and simple.
We are probably looking at a measure that lifts STO from a 66 metascore to a solid 70, possibly more.
To the question, "WHY not create more?"
Now that doesn't hold up to evidence, there is content added to the game practically each quarter...an impressive rate actually.
Now people may not like those implementations, still they qualify as "new content"
My speculation would be that something is going to replace the "exploration" part of this game sooner or later. Personally i rather have something i enjoy in a year or more, than something awful, uninteresting, and accord to cryptic, something deterrent to new customers, remain in the game.
Now the concept of foundry as "exploration" is something really true to trek, imho...but it certainly needs some "moderators" to select those missions. That is where the community is asked to cooperate to increase the quality of the game for everybody.
I disagree. I don't buy their reasoning. This game is 10GB at download with on demand patching. Most games of any quality typically are much bigger than that these days. SWTOR requires 25GB. The last MMO game I downloaded to play was 50GB from Origin. Is the kind of customer who can't devote 10GB to the game the kind of customer that's worth having? What type of quality game is this customer really looking for in the first place? Are they going to spend any money? The quality of STO is going to suffer if we are going to keep the game at something as small as 10 to 15 GB especially with all the new games coming out that have a much higher graphics quality and demanding much more space.
The missions were sub-par I agree especially compared with the remastered episodes. They could have removed the missions that channeled new people into those areas of the game like the memory alpha tutorial and the problem is solved. Right now one of the first missions has you doing a cluster mission which could be put off until later in the game or even just put in as optional.
The excuses they provide for the removal are very thin indeed and their are many ways they could re-work this. I think its more about easy scanning for crafting resources and forcing players into group content vs. individual play. My only concern is there should be a replacement for exploration before a removal of the existing content. There is a real lack of solo content at end game that actually rewards you the necessary resources. I like group content but this group content doesn't play like a team effort but rather every man for himself and is way too easy and repetitive.
As for the whole foundry cluster thing... All they have said was a foundry author can make a mission with a starting point at the cluster that's it. This is no different than flying to Vulcan to start a mission there. You will still need to go into that awful foundry search tool looking for a mission first and pick it up and then fly to the cluster system on the map like any other foundry mission. The foundry authors will still be stuck using the same limited number of system maps as are already associated with the star systems we already see... nothing unique like the 1000's of maps they are eliminating in the clusters.
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The larger the file is the less likely people will try a game on a whim. If a friend told you try a game and you clicked the download and the file turned out to be 50gb, what are the odds you cancel? I have several 3tb hd's and 3 256gb ssd's and I would hesitate to DL a large file to try out. I know 50 is larger than 10ish but the curve of people actually sticking with the DL relates to the size of the file. Trimming the fat, how ever small is not a bad idea.
Also 'kill 5 of these' or 'scan 5 of these' were TRIBBLE missions. go look for the lowest rated foundry mission you can find and it will probably be better.
I am not a PVP master. I haven't finished all the reputation systems. I don't have all the Borg sets, Jem'Hadar sets, Voth or Romulan. My builds are not better than anyone else's and my fleet isn't even tier one yet. But i am a lifelong Star Trek fan. For me that means i am not playing a game, i am playing a character in Star Trek. Ive kept my bridge officers since i got them and have created in game story arcs for them. I have paced out the episodes so that after playing for 2 years i still have a few more to go. And i have been writing personal logs from the beginning to tie all my adventures together in to one story. My Dad (a huge Star Trek fan) died after i started playing and i even tied that in to my character's story. I have attachments in this game that cause genuine emotion.
Why would i think anyone cares about this? I don't. But i hope just one developer reads this and can imagine for an instant how important this game is to me. And then they would know the thing i play this game for the most is the exploration clusters. When i started, the game was foreign to me because parts of it didn't feel like Star Trek but the one thing i could always go back to, and the thing i always thought would be there was the exploration clusters. Now they are gone. That exploration element that is the embodiment of Star Trek that drew me in, is gone.
What hits the hardest is the phrase "it doesn't meet our higher standards so we decided to remove it." If it doesn't work we cut it away? PVP sucked and they worked on that, I've never wasted my time on crafting in 2 years but they're working on that. Endgame was nonexistent 1 year ago and now its an entire phase of the game. But a core tenant of Star Trek and by proxy a core tenant of STO isn't working and it gets killed like a lame horse.
Truth is, ill keep playing. Maybe ill make a better build or finish a reputation system. But ill never get to do the thing i liked the most.
"Risk is part of the game if you wanna sit in that chair."
That was not exploration. Open your foundry tab, search exploration, play missions, thank me later. You will be exploring for the 1st time in this game ever. I played this mission the other day that involved shrinking my ship to microscopic size and injected into...you will have to see. Either way better than 'scan 5 of these' Sadly people only use the foundry for loot.
Once again doing TRIBBLE missions over and over again everyday is not exploration. You cannot miss something that it was not.
That was not exploration. Open your foundry tab, search exploration, play missions, thank me later. You will be exploring for the 1st time in this game ever. I played this mission the other day that involved shrinking my ship to microscopic size and injected into...you will have to see. Either way better than 'scan 5 of these' Sadly people only use the foundry for loot.
Once again doing TRIBBLE missions over and over again everyday is not exploration. You cannot miss something that it was not.
People keep saying "That was not exploration."
I understand, it was pretty bad. The same scan 5 of 5. Shoot 20, random planet colors and races, etc. There was only one respawn point, if you and your BOffs died, everyone had to run 10 miles to get back to where you were. Even my BOffs didn't want to play the maps, they would either turn invisible or hide behind the frames of the doorways, EVERY chance they could! Very repetitive, therefore, not exploration. Submitting a tech support ticket would give you less than sending an e-mail to Santa Claus (at least with him you get a bounce-back.)
But being that it was the closest thing that Cryptic produced that was labeled "Exploration", I want them to KEEP IT IN.
Because once it's gone, they have no reason to fix it.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Open your foundry tab, search exploration, play missions, thank me later. You will be exploring for the 1st time in this game ever. I played this mission the other day that involved shrinking my ship to microscopic size and injected into...you will have to see. Either way better than 'scan 5 of these' Sadly people only use the foundry for loot.
The Foundry isn't exploration either. So it's not the solution.
Sorry, I don't buy this at all. It states file size and if user doesn't read or have the patience to wait then the file size isn't the real issue. Maybe the download is so slow and not on a dedicated line and potential player gives up? That makes more sense to me and I can relate to that happening.
I'm not sure. The client already started pre-patching. So far, it says 1440 mb of changes.
Suprisingly the crafting system which suppose to be alpha is part of the pre-patch. There goes Cryptic getting feedback. The Tribble server is pretty much the live version with all the bugs coming.
As for Exploration space, there is no revamp or Cryptic will not make changes to there decision of players creating content for the company to make them money. Since, that's probably part of the pre-patch. There goes Cryptic getting feedback.
and Season 9.5: Grind is probably in the pre-patch at least partially.
The larger the file is the less likely people will try a game on a whim. If a friend told you try a game and you clicked the download and the file turned out to be 50gb, what are the odds you cancel? I have several 3tb hd's and 3 256gb ssd's and I would hesitate to DL a large file to try out. I know 50 is larger than 10ish but the curve of people actually sticking with the DL relates to the size of the file. Trimming the fat, how ever small is not a bad idea.
Also 'kill 5 of these' or 'scan 5 of these' were TRIBBLE missions. go look for the lowest rated foundry mission you can find and it will probably be better.
Maybe the scan 5 of these were TRIBBLE missions but just think how many of the best episodes of trek there has been where they have went into anebula and found...... Nothing
Exactly there isn't and that is what we are technically getting as we can only get nebula things from the main sector map.
My vew is clear they did ths to stop mining the commodities for crafting like we did for memory alpha crafting and to me if I only had a few minutes in the game at that time I may have did a bit of strange new worlds and may have used the Rolor or Delta volanis cluster. By Season 9.5 this game is nothing more than a space battle game. There is no Star Trek in the game. In fact Trek is the whole point the name of the show was Star Trek. We should be exploring the system not fighting waves and wave of enemies over and over and over until we quit out of boredom and With removing these rather than replacing them with a new exploration system many people may decide to go elsewhere as there is a few games coming out this year and I for one is seeing little reason to play 9.5. I used to love STO but since Seaon 7 the game has become one long grind
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't really argue against your legit concerns here.
Here's my view on the foundry as a solution:
They could do what they're doing, adding foundry doors, AND leave the exploration clusters in as they currently are. That enhances things. By keeping old content that some players do enjoy still there. And by adding a new layer with foundry doors.
Instead, they're removing the old content. And then claiming that the foundry fits their original vision for exploration. When we all know that they don't support the foundry well at all.
It's just like trying to sweep it all under a rug, a very threadbare rug that they don't particularly do much to maintain themselves ...
And then they give some of the most absurd reasons for why they're doing this.
When the entire time we're sitting there ... ON TRIBBLE ... looking at the new crafting system.
We know why they're doing it. But Dev Blog 29 is that cliche internet meme of memes ... a huge "slap in the face" to the intelligence of anyone who logs onto the game.
I don't know. I mean it's just all in all a very poorly handled move by Cryptic.
They could have done this so different. But again, they could have dealt with exploration concerns ages ago. They could have done actual foundry support ages ago.
They chose not to.
And I still allow myself to get worked up by their really terrible attempts at PR and misdirection.
Oh and their handling of the discussion itself too ... by smooshing all the blogs into one thread, to try and mangle the stream of criticism, the over-moderation of this topic ...
It's all just, top to bottom, one of those situations where I'm left feeling very sour and disappointed with the company, the game and my experience with them.
Ick. Just ick.
On the bright side, I'm not good at foundry stuff at all. I AM good at making comic books. So I'm doing my Battle of the B'tran idea as a comic book of my own creation. I'll preserve my "backstory" and role playing adventures in the B'Tran in my own way. It's not actual Trek, like I've basically transformed it into it's own original thing, but it's INSPIRED by trek and this game. So, when I get some completed pages that I feel comfortable showing off, I'll stop by Ten Fowrard to link it.
Kudos to Cryptic for distressing me enough to take an active response ... by drawing.
Turning them into a door may very well be good but scrapping it is a bit extreme when the star clusters could be just given a rethink in the missions we can obtain and make them a little more engaging with added depth to them, one thing that could be done is to help improve the star clusters is have First Contact missions make a return for the Federation and have Raiding missions for the Klingon Empire. So far we've received little in the way of new mission content that didn't relate to a new grind and wasn't less than a few minutes long.
"I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
The larger the file is the less likely people will try a game on a whim. If a friend told you try a game and you clicked the download and the file turned out to be 50gb, what are the odds you cancel? I have several 3tb hd's and 3 256gb ssd's and I would hesitate to DL a large file to try out. I know 50 is larger than 10ish but the curve of people actually sticking with the DL relates to the size of the file. Trimming the fat, how ever small is not a bad idea.
Also 'kill 5 of these' or 'scan 5 of these' were TRIBBLE missions. go look for the lowest rated foundry mission you can find and it will probably be better.
How much money should I bet, that the Client is actually going to be bigger with Season 9.5 ... (but hey, for "Farmville Crafting", it'd be totally worth it)
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I really hope this is temporary. When an MMO starts removing content, this is never a positive thing. Yes, the system is changing for collecting crafting mats. I get that. But to get away from "explore strange new worlds"is really going to take something away from the game.
I've been considering for quite sometime how it would be possible to fix unused and unpopular content, and I think the easiest way would be to offer a KDF and FED faction. This faction would be a better place for MACO/KHG ground and space sets, and a good place to offer non-fleet cannon specific (phaser and disrupter) weapons at MKXII quality.
The more important thing: this is temporary? or forever?. We need to know that .
STAR TREK is EXPLORATION. If this is a real STAR TREK game, this must be the most important thing... not more FED starships and missions or uniforms. Thats just a shooter thing, a action game, not a Star Trek game.
STAR TREK is EXPLORATION. If this is a real STAR TREK game, this must be the most important thing... not more FED starships and missions or uniforms. Thats just a shooter thing, a action game, not a Star Trek game.
Then, what is Star Trek: Elite Force? What is Star Trek: Borg?
For that matter, because DS9 didn't have exploration and spent a good chunk of its series in a war, does that mean it's not Trek?
Hiding behind the Foundry where any mission that rewards anything must take the average of playing 30-40 minutes on one mission? The grind is strong with you, Cryptic.
_____
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
Then, what is Star Trek: Elite Force? What is Star Trek: Borg?
For that matter, because DS9 didn't have exploration and spent a good chunk of its series in a war, does that mean it's not Trek?
Are you sure that DS9 didn't have exploration? In general, Star Trek is about many types of exploration besides that of just literally exploring space. Space is just the stage for the story to be performed, exploration is the journey of learning about ourselves and others.
Specifically, in STO, we are losing that last thing that even (very) remotely resembles exploration, if nothing else, just by name. Also, think about any of the episodes in STO and compare those with most Star Trek episodes. Are there any moral or cultural lessons from any of the story lines in STO? No - at least I do not see it. They are stories and exciting but no real message that I can see.
There will not be any possible form of exploration generated by Cryptic once the Exploration Clusters are gone. Seriously, look at STO without Exploration and then strip away the ship model frames and skins, uniform models, terminology and logos. Do you have anything that is different from any other MMO?
Once the Exploration Clusters are gone, there is nothing to fix, nothing to improve upon to try to make STO different from other MMOs.
It appears that Cryptic does want to be different, they just want STO to be ANOTHER MMO. Is this what YOU want? Is that what you came here for?
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Are you sure that DS9 didn't have exploration? In general, Star Trek is about many types of exploration besides that of just literally exploring space. Space is just the stage for the story to be performed, exploration is the journey of learning about ourselves and others.
Specifically, in STO, we are losing that last thing that even (very) remotely resembles exploration, if nothing else, just by name. Also, think about any of the episodes in STO and compare those with most Star Trek episodes. Are there any moral or cultural lessons from any of the story lines in STO? No - at least I do not see it. They are stories and exciting but no real message that I can see.
There will not be any possible form of exploration generated by Cryptic once the Exploration Clusters are gone. Seriously, look at STO without Exploration and then strip away the ship model frames and skins, uniform models, terminology and logos. Do you have anything that is different from any other MMO?
Once the Exploration Clusters are gone, there is nothing to fix, nothing to improve upon to try to make STO different from other MMOs.
It appears that Cryptic does want to be different, they just want STO to be ANOTHER MMO. Is this what YOU want? Is that what you came here for?
This is a fair point. I would say that the ships looks are enough, but as I think about it I only fly 1 'federation' type ship right now.
What draws me to STO more than anything is the possibility of continuing the Trek Verse into the 2400's. I think the most recent feature episode does a nice job with this. We have established peace with the Klingons and the Romulans. This is a significant event in the history of Trek. We now have a common enemy that may unite us in a lasting peace. So basically the story is about the exploration and unification of the Milky Way. This process will reveal what humanity and the Federation is all about. So I do think that the latest episode took a very good step in the right direction.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The more important thing: this is temporary? or forever?. We need to know that .
STAR TREK is EXPLORATION. If this is a real STAR TREK game, this must be the most important thing... not more FED starships and missions or uniforms. Thats just a shooter thing, a action game, not a Star Trek game.
Cheers from ALL the Argentine community!
It probably gone forever or at least until they can figure out how to make money from exploration and add even more grind to the game.
They make more money relying on foundry and free labour from their players producing the game for them, than invest in what would be a serious amount of money in building a new exploration system for Star trek, even an update for the current system would be no small investment.
Comments
It's disappointing for reasons that so many people have already stated: It was a different way to play the game that wasn't centered on the equally redundant and distressingly militant story arcs, episodes and queues. It had some randomness and a totally different feel of hopeful exploration and discovery.
By removing this, it seems that you're essentially removing from STO the unique thematic core of the IP. The thing that makes it different from all other sci-fi - an optimistic view of humanity's future.
Doing this without even attempting to improve or enhance the current system seems...questionable.
An alternative approach would be to improve the system somehow. A couple of suggestions have been made:
1) Improve the system in-house
ADD more random missions and more random aliens. How about a dozen missions in each category that all seem to start the same, but take different directions as each progresses? Maybe some lead into story arcs or first contacts? How about some random alien and critter generation? Environmental threats?
2) Open it up to the Foundry
Not a bad plan. As others have mentioned, it would be better if the Foundry were less limited. Not only mission tools, but also things like alien costumes, critters, environmental issues and (why was this not obvious from day 1?) alien ship costumes.
3) Why not leave it in place?
The devs say it's useless and "not up to standards". That's a fine opinion, but maybe not one that is shared by the community that actually, you know, plays the game. It's also not the only useless aspect of the game...so why is this one system getting singled out for redaction? Why not leave the clusters in place until such time as you can develop a better, more satisfactory system?
When I play STO, I like to imagine the Star Trek universe going on somewhere in the background. NOT the Star Trek universe the dev's imagine - with respect and apologies, they're just fans with a bigger soap box than the rest of us. No, I mean the Star Trek I've seen on screen.
A peace-seeking, humanitarian Star Trek.
The Exploration Clusters best represent that aspect of Star Trek in STO. Removing the Clusters, without any effort to enhance or replace them, removes that spirit from STO and in my opinion, for whatever that's worth, would be...ill-advised.
And, well...there you go.
Carry on.
(Edited for clarity)
My suggestion is you would go thru the worm hole and be presented with a totally un-explored area, each solar system you would be able to map out by exploring the planets, moons, asteroid belts, and some could have other worm holes. Some of these planets would contain various life forms with the more rare ones containing intelligent life or civilizations. The area would be a cross between "EVE" and "Earth and Beyond". Some systems could contain Ruins and Relics. I would be also be nice to include a more "Civilian Side" of game play were one could be a Trader. I think the distance between worlds is a too close, I would like to see space travel more like "EVE" in the way distance, time and flight manner. But maintain the set course and off you go. This would bring more meaning to the type of ship I possess in regards to engine speed (Warp Capability), Trans-Warp Drive and those other purchasable speed/travel perks. I think such a long range endeavor would be a positive for the players and the company. It would bring more meaning to becoming a Admiral and even Player Fleets. Maybe we could start a topic regarding ideas in the design of a "Exploration" area? Heck if the developers needed more funds to create such an area I would certainly chip in on top of my subscription.
For ex., we have kirksplat who I've never seen post so much in a thread not related to the foundry. Now don't get me wrong kirksplat, I know you're one of the most passionate representatives of the foundry community since like forever.
What I'm actually suprised about is how passionately you're doing the job of the devil's advocate here. Please note that I'm not pointing fingers and it's quite possible that because you're so passionate about the foundry to not have noticed you're doing the devil's advocate job.
What saddens me is that if the current state of the foundry treatment by Cryptic is in such a desparate place, so you're so over the moon for getting some crums thrown at the foundry's direction. I mean seriously - noone is debating the quality of the exploration cluster missions here. I have no doubt for a second that the foundry authors could provide better and more varied missions.
But what Cryptic is doing here is relegating content making to the people who play the game, for their own benefit. They're also doing nothing for the foundry here, but throwing crums. Making foundry doors be availibe? Whoopedy-doo!
Now let me ask you kirksplat, and I'm only pointing you out to ask because you're the most prominent member of the foundry community posting here in this passionate debate (don't want anyone to get the impression I've got sth. against them:o) - can you singlehandedly guarantee the quantity of exploration content provided by the foundry?
Because let's face it - pushing the content that is one of the cumberstones of Star Trek to the foundry is not substainable development. The foundry authors are players of STO as well, they're not obligated for anything. What happens if few days from now Cryptic does something epically craptastic to the foundry, that would make the foundry people rage-quit, hypotheticaly speaking? No exploration in STO?
Again, who can guarantee the amount of exploration related content provided by the foundry. Who can guarantee there'll be a big and ever increasing number of missions? Who'll guarantee me that after a couple of weeks playing exploration related foundry missions I won't run out of new content in that regard?
Then, there is the thing about quality. Frankly, in my eyes, attaching foundry doors to the clusters in their "new" incarnation is Season 9.5 doesn't do anything much. Granted I only played around in the foundry for a while (don't have enough time to really devote myslef), but I'm pretty sure a foundry door is just a place you can select your mission to start from. So currently there is no guarantee of the quality of content with a starting point in a cluster, furthermore there's no guarantee it would be exploration related at all. I can put a starting point to my mission in Delta Volanis that will then take you to ESD after the loading screen and your objective will be to dance on Quinn's desk.
As far as I'm aware, the STO team assigned to the foundry currently numbers 0 people! So there's noone to implement a mechanisc specifically for exploration related foundry missions, there's noone to quality check and approve missions that would be treated as 'exploration' which would start in the clusters, in fact there's noone to do anything. Except put a door there.
See where I'm going with this?
The issue at hand here is that they're removing content. Content that regardless of how subpar might have been, was still the closest thing this game had to an actual exploration. Noone's debating quality. Again, I'm not discussing the potential of the Foundry to create more advanced content than the random generator in it's current form.
What is troublesome here is that the game developer is wahsing their hands from a type of content that is the premise of the entire franchise they own a licence to, and outsource the creation of said profile of content to a completely unsustainable source. A source which they have neglected and mislead since the launch of STO, a source that is still in 'beta', a source that gets nothing but crums once in a blue moon, but a source they obviously have no problem falling back to when it takes their collective posteriors out of trouble.
Now there are people saying that since they're removing this, there surely must be a new exploration system right around the corner. This is nothing more than wishfull thinking. As others have said on multiple ocassions, there's no correspondence from Cryptic that would indicate such a thing. For what we know, there is the same amount of chace that Ex.2 will be about exploration as there is a chance to be just another rep.grind, a Cardassian faction, a Kazon kill-a-rama or sharks with friggin' photon cannons on their heads. What we do know however is that the exploration system currently in place is being nuked, without any relevant replacement and the foundry pointed out as a cover shield for the developer to waltz away from responsibility.
And if they really have an exploration revamp/expansion or whatever planned for Ex.2 and they're letting this sad and depressive ragefest, losing confidence in Crpytic and losing faith in STO going on - then their PR responsible should flat out get fired, or at least demoted and sent to finish sveral PR courses. I work in marketing for quite a while even though it's not the profession I graduated for and I'm telling you - if I ever allow such a thing to happen on my watch, I'll get the boot. It's that simple.
At the end - fact time: the main and probably only reason they're removing the clusters right now is the crafting revamp. They want to nerf the gathering of crafting resources before the new system hits holodeck, so they can prolongue the completion of the new crafting schools. Don't forget, we're in a D'Angelo era here - the first thing I heard the guy say after becomming the EP (again) was that the Dyson rep. was not grindy enough for him.
What bothers me actually is them not having the courage to admit this and face the music, but rather underestimating our intellingence here by providing some BS excuses like the size of the game or players getting lost in 2D square with a single entry/exit point. If this was the case, they'd remove the clusters when the game went F2P and they expected a bunch of new F2P players who'd "get lost" in the clusters.
They've basically killed exploration so they can nerf material gathering for crafting. People already explained why it's very complicated for them to change this stuff within the clusters and leave them be - and Cryptic, as always ofcourse, is taking the lazy way out. They don't care it's making the game feel smaller and sadder. It's very simple actually. Use your brain people, it's in there for a reason.
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel that some important stuff hapening to the game needs to be discussed.
I'm not sure where to start with a response to this post. Look, if you've followed my long history of pretty much raging and flaming the devs, you'll know that I'm not exactly a cheerleader for Cryptic producers. A lot of my motivation and support for the Foundry comes down to the statement: "You call this Star Trek? Really? You call this Star Trek? Here, this is Star Trek. Take notes, please." There are notable exceptions to the dev content, from excellent FEs to the Romulan expansion, etc. But, the vast majority of "content" in this game has been MMO filler, not Star Trek lore of storytelling. You're lucky to get a story-related cutscene from the Dyson sphere stuff.
I have far more faith in the ability of fans to tell stories that capture the essence of Star Trek exploration than I do with metric-driven producers who don't have a problem letting players fly Borg cubes. I have faith in the ability of fans to enrich the lore of this universe, when the overarching story arch of the producers is catered to justify a new lockbox or adventure zone.
Yes, the Foundry has been treated like an ugly and neglected stepchild. Yes, it is pretty insulting that they are spinning the Foundry as lining up with core design principles when 0 people on the STO team have Foundry in their job description. Yes, the history of the Foundry and its beta state is not exactly an encouraging reason for players to even try to make content for this game. Plus, nobody can really find that content, even if they try.
What I can guarantee is based not on any confidence in Cryptic, its commitment to Foundry, or any real belief that they'll do anything besides hook up doors as a convenient justification for removing the clusters. What I will say, based solely on my belief in the power of Star Trek fans, is that we can make exploration better than anything done by a blender, or a reputation bucket, or a rinse and repeat pew pew mission made by the devs. We can make exploration feel like exploration. I promise you that, because I know that most authors simply want to tell engaging stories set in the universe of Star Trek. We aren't giving you reasons to do some repetitive task for a .005 point increase in your flight turn rate or a few new plants on your castle.
We're doing what we can with the only game that we have to work with at the moment. I'm not ready to give up hope on the power and creativity of Star Trek fans, even if I have little faith in the dev team, despite some "skunk work" support by certain devs like Taco or QA support from Cryptic Frost.
According to Cryptic, they want to remove the Exploration Clusters because the missions are not up to the standards of quality of the other missions of the game. It also takes up too much hard drive space on end-users systems, driving away new players.
Ok, so Cryptic gives you a car (STO as a basic representation of Star Trek canon) with tires shaped like hexagons - it's tires are not perfected, they are a work in progress, but it gets you to where you need to go... roughly.
Each one of the tires are called Episodes, Reputation System, Crafting and Exploration.
The first tire was called Episodes gets replaced with better Episodes (left front) - it's definitely a little smoother ride.
Next to be replaced was Reputation System (the right-front tire,) it's a little over inflated and wears down more due to "grinding" but there are more new ones coming every other month to replace it.
Next one to be replaced is called Crafting (right-rear tire) but Cryptic figures that since the Exploration tire shares the same axle as Crafting, Exploration is not really necessary. Crafting can hold up the back of the car. Exploration was an ugly tire anyways. So the plan is to replace Crafting but remove the wheel for Exploration altogether.
You ask Cryptic why only one wheel in back, car were meant to have 4 wheels and tires?!
Cryptic says this way they don't need to maintain as many tires and as long as you only make left turns or go straight carefully, besides that, new potential car owners say that the car is too heavy, so without the extra wheel and tire, the car is lighter.
Yes, the car was meant to do right turns too but it's not really necessary, so Cryptic says, "Trust us and carry on."
At this point, some people say the car is better without that fourth wheel, that tire is REALLY ugly. Other say, even though the tire was ugly, the car worked the way it was meant to.
(They haven't worked out the "bugs" yet to be able to make round tires yet. It's a work in progress...)
NOTE: Excuse me if I got the physics wrong, it should still get the point across. I hope you at least found my analogy entertaining.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're not a Cryptic cheerleader, I tried to make that clear as much as I could.
What I said is that it looks like you're playing the devil's advocate job by encouraging the swapping of the clusters with foundry content (for the right reasons I know), but it comes off as a loud support for the current decsion being made, without firstly doing the following that relates to the second part I'll quote here:
Basically they're saying that the foundry needs to do this work for them, without providing the foundry authors even the basic necessary stuff to make it happen. I have no doubt for the foundry authors' abilities, what I have an issue with is them just simply removing content without any replacement and without prviding tools for the people that are suposed to create that replacement.
It basically comes off as:
"We're nuking the exploration in STO!"
"But Cryptic, the exploration is the basic premise of ST, you can't do that!"
"Well, go to kirksplat if you want exploration"
"But kirksplat doesn't have all the tools from you to make it happen on a really quality level"
"Uhm...tools...schmools........oh look a new Xindi lockbox!!!"
No arguments from me here, I'm also pretty sure that every person that dedicated his time and effort to make a foundry mission (that is not a grinder, but a true story content) has much love and passion for the franchise and the work he/she's doing.
Certainly more than Cryptic lately it seems.
Again, I don't doubt the ability of foundry authors to provide engaging content, in many instances more engaging than what's been provided in the game by the developer.
What I'm questioning is the amount of content that the foundry can create in a period of time (I have no idea how many missions does the foundry give birth to over a period of time or if there is a way to measure this in game) in order to fill the expectation of closing the gaping hole in terms of exploration, especially opened now after they're killing the clusters.
I'm also questioning the quality of said content, not in terms of the quality of the stories told by the authors, but how accesible they are, how conected to exploration and the clusters both are they as well as wheather they're lost in a cacaphony of 'Admiral Bobo' and other grinders.
I know you guys do. And I know authors that have created some remarkable content. As a KDF player, the foundry has been my source of content for quite a while filling the empty space left there by Cryptic until recently. And even now.
What I'm saying is that is sucks royally on Cryptic's behalf to leave the foundry as the only venue for exploration content, while at the same time not moving even their small finger to do something about the foundry and provide the tools you guys need to truly make experiences that will feel like exploration and not a list of missions for me to search from.
I can't really argue against your legit concerns here. You have good reasons for raising each question and objection. However, I will say that, despite the lack of support, we can do a lot with the tools that we currently have. We can make missions now that put those cluster missions to shame.
Whether or not people can find those missions is another story. We've been asking for a UI revamp for a long time now, and there is a widely supported alternative that many of us have been requesting for many months. It is Captain Hunter's proposal.
As it stands now, even if many authors spent 2 months really filling in those exploration clusters, players would need to know how to search for the missions, and the lists would only show like the top 50 results. So, it's a big problem that needs to addressed.
But, it doesn't change the potential that we have to really flesh out the clusters, if there is dev support for it. This change, as minimal as it is, could be the first step toward that support. And, there is supposed to be some important Foundry news in the coming days or weeks.
In the end, regardless of the lack or plentitude of dev support, we can still do a lot with what we have. And I think you'll enjoy what we can do, if you can find the missions. Maybe you'll need to rely on a thread in the Foundry section of the forums. Even then, I think the experience will be more enjoyable than the previous clusters or anything that might resemble a Cryptic revamp of a blender.
So, yeah, it will be a challenge. But, I think we are up for it, in spite of the enormous hurdles.
If they do so. They are going to have to start from scrach and it is going to have to be many times better that they had and could of fix for less than what they are going to spend in the terms of money, time and manhours to replace the former exploration setup.
To me that seams to be a very bad business practice.
I have a dream where CBS gets its head out if *** and laids down the law to both CRYPTIC and PWE and says if you don't clean up your act. The possility of Star Trek Lic renewal for STO will be highly unlikly.
Seeing that they are linking the Foundry to the Clusters, they don't have any plans to replace the Exploration Clusters any time soon.... if ever.
They would have to figure out how to make money from the content or content that would be cheap. Making content is expensive, so they are falling back onto the Foundry.
Reputation content pays for itself since it's just a handful of maps that is repeatedly consumed. Exploration would (ideally) require a lot of unique content that would be consumed once or twice per player.
Even if they came up with a way to automatically generate missions around templates of maps, scripts, textures/skins and other properties, I'm not sure if it would be good quality overall. It might be better than what was there before with the map properties be flushed out.
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I disagree. I don't buy their reasoning. This game is 10GB at download with on demand patching. Most games of any quality typically are much bigger than that these days. SWTOR requires 25GB. The last MMO game I downloaded to play was 50GB from Origin. Is the kind of customer who can't devote 10GB to the game the kind of customer that's worth having? What type of quality game is this customer really looking for in the first place? Are they going to spend any money? The quality of STO is going to suffer if we are going to keep the game at something as small as 10 to 15 GB especially with all the new games coming out that have a much higher graphics quality and demanding much more space.
The missions were sub-par I agree especially compared with the remastered episodes. They could have removed the missions that channeled new people into those areas of the game like the memory alpha tutorial and the problem is solved. Right now one of the first missions has you doing a cluster mission which could be put off until later in the game or even just put in as optional.
The excuses they provide for the removal are very thin indeed and their are many ways they could re-work this. I think its more about easy scanning for crafting resources and forcing players into group content vs. individual play. My only concern is there should be a replacement for exploration before a removal of the existing content. There is a real lack of solo content at end game that actually rewards you the necessary resources. I like group content but this group content doesn't play like a team effort but rather every man for himself and is way too easy and repetitive.
As for the whole foundry cluster thing... All they have said was a foundry author can make a mission with a starting point at the cluster that's it. This is no different than flying to Vulcan to start a mission there. You will still need to go into that awful foundry search tool looking for a mission first and pick it up and then fly to the cluster system on the map like any other foundry mission. The foundry authors will still be stuck using the same limited number of system maps as are already associated with the star systems we already see... nothing unique like the 1000's of maps they are eliminating in the clusters.
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The larger the file is the less likely people will try a game on a whim. If a friend told you try a game and you clicked the download and the file turned out to be 50gb, what are the odds you cancel? I have several 3tb hd's and 3 256gb ssd's and I would hesitate to DL a large file to try out. I know 50 is larger than 10ish but the curve of people actually sticking with the DL relates to the size of the file. Trimming the fat, how ever small is not a bad idea.
Also 'kill 5 of these' or 'scan 5 of these' were TRIBBLE missions. go look for the lowest rated foundry mission you can find and it will probably be better.
Why would i think anyone cares about this? I don't. But i hope just one developer reads this and can imagine for an instant how important this game is to me. And then they would know the thing i play this game for the most is the exploration clusters. When i started, the game was foreign to me because parts of it didn't feel like Star Trek but the one thing i could always go back to, and the thing i always thought would be there was the exploration clusters. Now they are gone. That exploration element that is the embodiment of Star Trek that drew me in, is gone.
What hits the hardest is the phrase "it doesn't meet our higher standards so we decided to remove it." If it doesn't work we cut it away? PVP sucked and they worked on that, I've never wasted my time on crafting in 2 years but they're working on that. Endgame was nonexistent 1 year ago and now its an entire phase of the game. But a core tenant of Star Trek and by proxy a core tenant of STO isn't working and it gets killed like a lame horse.
Truth is, ill keep playing. Maybe ill make a better build or finish a reputation system. But ill never get to do the thing i liked the most.
Once again doing TRIBBLE missions over and over again everyday is not exploration. You cannot miss something that it was not.
People keep saying "That was not exploration."
I understand, it was pretty bad. The same scan 5 of 5. Shoot 20, random planet colors and races, etc. There was only one respawn point, if you and your BOffs died, everyone had to run 10 miles to get back to where you were. Even my BOffs didn't want to play the maps, they would either turn invisible or hide behind the frames of the doorways, EVERY chance they could! Very repetitive, therefore, not exploration. Submitting a tech support ticket would give you less than sending an e-mail to Santa Claus (at least with him you get a bounce-back.)
But being that it was the closest thing that Cryptic produced that was labeled "Exploration", I want them to KEEP IT IN.
Because once it's gone, they have no reason to fix it.
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The Foundry isn't exploration either. So it's not the solution.
I'm not sure. The client already started pre-patching. So far, it says 1440 mb of changes.
Suprisingly the crafting system which suppose to be alpha is part of the pre-patch. There goes Cryptic getting feedback. The Tribble server is pretty much the live version with all the bugs coming.
As for Exploration space, there is no revamp or Cryptic will not make changes to there decision of players creating content for the company to make them money. Since, that's probably part of the pre-patch. There goes Cryptic getting feedback.
and Season 9.5: Grind is probably in the pre-patch at least partially.
Maybe the scan 5 of these were TRIBBLE missions but just think how many of the best episodes of trek there has been where they have went into anebula and found...... Nothing
Exactly there isn't and that is what we are technically getting as we can only get nebula things from the main sector map.
My vew is clear they did ths to stop mining the commodities for crafting like we did for memory alpha crafting and to me if I only had a few minutes in the game at that time I may have did a bit of strange new worlds and may have used the Rolor or Delta volanis cluster. By Season 9.5 this game is nothing more than a space battle game. There is no Star Trek in the game. In fact Trek is the whole point the name of the show was Star Trek. We should be exploring the system not fighting waves and wave of enemies over and over and over until we quit out of boredom and With removing these rather than replacing them with a new exploration system many people may decide to go elsewhere as there is a few games coming out this year and I for one is seeing little reason to play 9.5. I used to love STO but since Seaon 7 the game has become one long grind
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Here's my view on the foundry as a solution:
They could do what they're doing, adding foundry doors, AND leave the exploration clusters in as they currently are. That enhances things. By keeping old content that some players do enjoy still there. And by adding a new layer with foundry doors.
Instead, they're removing the old content. And then claiming that the foundry fits their original vision for exploration. When we all know that they don't support the foundry well at all.
It's just like trying to sweep it all under a rug, a very threadbare rug that they don't particularly do much to maintain themselves ...
And then they give some of the most absurd reasons for why they're doing this.
When the entire time we're sitting there ... ON TRIBBLE ... looking at the new crafting system.
We know why they're doing it. But Dev Blog 29 is that cliche internet meme of memes ... a huge "slap in the face" to the intelligence of anyone who logs onto the game.
I don't know. I mean it's just all in all a very poorly handled move by Cryptic.
They could have done this so different. But again, they could have dealt with exploration concerns ages ago. They could have done actual foundry support ages ago.
They chose not to.
And I still allow myself to get worked up by their really terrible attempts at PR and misdirection.
Oh and their handling of the discussion itself too ... by smooshing all the blogs into one thread, to try and mangle the stream of criticism, the over-moderation of this topic ...
It's all just, top to bottom, one of those situations where I'm left feeling very sour and disappointed with the company, the game and my experience with them.
Ick. Just ick.
On the bright side, I'm not good at foundry stuff at all. I AM good at making comic books. So I'm doing my Battle of the B'tran idea as a comic book of my own creation. I'll preserve my "backstory" and role playing adventures in the B'Tran in my own way. It's not actual Trek, like I've basically transformed it into it's own original thing, but it's INSPIRED by trek and this game. So, when I get some completed pages that I feel comfortable showing off, I'll stop by Ten Fowrard to link it.
Kudos to Cryptic for distressing me enough to take an active response ... by drawing.
That's got to be good, in the long run.
How much money should I bet, that the Client is actually going to be bigger with Season 9.5 ... (but hey, for "Farmville Crafting", it'd be totally worth it)
I've been considering for quite sometime how it would be possible to fix unused and unpopular content, and I think the easiest way would be to offer a KDF and FED faction. This faction would be a better place for MACO/KHG ground and space sets, and a good place to offer non-fleet cannon specific (phaser and disrupter) weapons at MKXII quality.
STAR TREK is EXPLORATION. If this is a real STAR TREK game, this must be the most important thing... not more FED starships and missions or uniforms. Thats just a shooter thing, a action game, not a Star Trek game.
Cheers from ALL the Argentine community!
The switch, from clusters to the foundry is a permanent change. So it's forever.
Then, what is Star Trek: Elite Force? What is Star Trek: Borg?
For that matter, because DS9 didn't have exploration and spent a good chunk of its series in a war, does that mean it's not Trek?
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
Are you sure that DS9 didn't have exploration? In general, Star Trek is about many types of exploration besides that of just literally exploring space. Space is just the stage for the story to be performed, exploration is the journey of learning about ourselves and others.
Specifically, in STO, we are losing that last thing that even (very) remotely resembles exploration, if nothing else, just by name. Also, think about any of the episodes in STO and compare those with most Star Trek episodes. Are there any moral or cultural lessons from any of the story lines in STO? No - at least I do not see it. They are stories and exciting but no real message that I can see.
There will not be any possible form of exploration generated by Cryptic once the Exploration Clusters are gone. Seriously, look at STO without Exploration and then strip away the ship model frames and skins, uniform models, terminology and logos. Do you have anything that is different from any other MMO?
Once the Exploration Clusters are gone, there is nothing to fix, nothing to improve upon to try to make STO different from other MMOs.
It appears that Cryptic does want to be different, they just want STO to be ANOTHER MMO. Is this what YOU want? Is that what you came here for?
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This is a fair point. I would say that the ships looks are enough, but as I think about it I only fly 1 'federation' type ship right now.
What draws me to STO more than anything is the possibility of continuing the Trek Verse into the 2400's. I think the most recent feature episode does a nice job with this. We have established peace with the Klingons and the Romulans. This is a significant event in the history of Trek. We now have a common enemy that may unite us in a lasting peace. So basically the story is about the exploration and unification of the Milky Way. This process will reveal what humanity and the Federation is all about. So I do think that the latest episode took a very good step in the right direction.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It probably gone forever or at least until they can figure out how to make money from exploration and add even more grind to the game.
They make more money relying on foundry and free labour from their players producing the game for them, than invest in what would be a serious amount of money in building a new exploration system for Star trek, even an update for the current system would be no small investment.
Actually it did have a few episodes scattered through the series that involve exploration, the crew explored a dominion vessel for example.