And why do you think you are the only want that wants balance? Me and preatty much everybody wants that too. But thats the problem. Everyone has a diferent vision of balance.
Balance is balance. 1 = 1. Not 1.5 = 1. Not 1 = 0.75. 1 = 1. Balance is balance.
And you say you are worried about tunning the console for future powercreep/dmg increase. Yet nothing about other stuff like lets say elite fleet disruptors, wich benefit from the powercreep too.
Because it is a case of looking at the balance of the Valdore console's heals vs. other heals...not a case of balancing the Valdore console vs. damage. As damage increases, the Valdore's heals will increase...as damage increases, Science Team's heal doesn't increase.
And where is this balance concern about the elite fleet phaser healing proc?? Ohh wait, its fix dmg and soo tiny, so its useless so why should it be balanced, right???
I just posted this last night in another thread...
You also mentioned Elite Disruptors vs. Elite Phasers. Lol, duh! Who hasn't done the epic /facepalm at Elite Phasers whether Fed or KDF...I mean, WTF was Cryptic thinking there?
...so uh, is that concern enough from me over how pathetic Elite Phasers are?
Balance is about cost vs reward. In this case the obvious cost is a uni console slot, and if it was a normal heal then a console slot would probably be equitable (give up damage boost to get a heal boost). But, the console gives very large heals at a very fast rate, so much healing that it actually frees up BOFF slots that would normally be spent on EPtS/RSP/ST/TSS. So it doesnt cost a console slot, it frees up BOFF slots that can be allocated to doing more damage. Thats why the DPS number chasers dont want to lose it, not for the heals but because they would lose some damage BOFF seating.
Honestly the game would be better served if we just made a map with nothing but tribbles and sold tribble-slaying gear to these people so they could go chase numbers without breaking the rest of the game.
Guess I should have flipped back a page to reply to this one first, eh? But this was a very strange post that I've got some serious questions about the intent of the poster...
The problem is with damage scaling vs defense. This is across the board a issue pvp and pve.
It seems to be that the only times I ever have died are these surprise mega crits. I have never just been widdled down to death.
Now add a console that shield heals with a percentage of that insane high dps.. The Valdore may be the first balanced defensive console vs DPS in the game.
It seems to be that the only times I ever have died are these surprise mega crits. I have never just been widdled down to death.
...so in your own words, you only die to "surprise mega crits" - and - you have never been whittled down to death. So how is a console that would only further prevent you from being whittled down to death a balanced console?
I mean, you've basically just stated that there is too much resistance and healing for you ever to die outside of a "surprise mega crit" - so how on Earth do you consider the Valdore console balanced?
I mean, unlike some folks that just want bugs fixed and to have it tweaked at the high end - it would appear that you'd be for the complete removal of it - since it only worsens a problem you yourself pointed out...
Now making it 1 faction only creates a issue in its own right.. but is nerfing Valdore the right move? Or looking at the DPS vs Healing vs Tanking in the game. Be it PVE or PVP.
Definitely need to take a look at Damage vs. Survivability, imho. There's far too much Survivability that requires instances of ludicrous Damage to be done in an instant. Course, my ideas on combat being more like starship combat and less like starfighter combat tends to draw evil looks from both folks in the PvP and PvE communities. There's the PvP folks that don't want matches lasting 30+ minutes (so how about dropping the kill requirement from 15 to 10 or even 5, eh?) and there's the PvE folks that don't want to spend more than 5 minutes in an instance (and I just don't know what to say to them).
If they really want to help fix a lot of issues its massively change the scaling on DPS. To nerf the Vapor KDF / Romulan builds, or the 1 shot gimmick builds to promote more diversity in weapon use. Like nerfing Beam and Cannon hull damage to promote need to use Torps + Beams in a mix to achieve best results. Energy for shield cracking and Torps for hull breaking.
Two things, uh, come to mind with what you said there. The first goes back to the following...
It seems to be that the only times I ever have died are these surprise mega crits. I have never just been widdled down to death.
...you've said yourself, outside of those "surprise mega crits" that you do not die. So nerfing the possibility of those vaper attacks killing without addressing your inability to die otherwise, would result in you never dying. Don't you see that as a problem?
The other thing is that Energy vs. Shields and Kinetic vs. Hull...well, Energy does work better against Shields and Kinetic does work better against Hull. The classic vape build is the Tractor Beam to reduce Defense and increase Accuracy Overflow for additional CrtH/CrtD, Beam Overload to burn the Shield facing, and High Yield Quantums to obliterate the Hull.
A BO3 w/ 0x Tac Consoles will do more damage to Shields than HY3 Quants w/ 5x Tac Consoles. HY3 Quants w/ 0x Tac Consoles will do more damage to Hull than a BO3 w/ 5x Tac Consoles.
I guess more things come to mind of course, such as the following...
1) Damage has reached such a ludicrous potential that a single BO3 can actually drop the Shield facing and pulverize the Hull.
2) Proc healing has reached such a ludicrous point that the same attack (#1 just above) with everything else the same, but with proc healing, could result in nothing happening.
3) With the boosts to Photons and the ability to drop out 11 torps in 1.5s from a stacked HY3/TS3, you can also drop the Shield facing to pulverize the Hull on certain targets. Work in the Omega Kinetic Shearing, time a SNB, Sensor Scan, and VM for it...and yeah...it's kind of ridiculous. (I did a bug report asking if the E-Bio should be doing x3, x5, x7 instead of x2, x3, x4 with Torp Spread - haven't seen a reply from Cryptic on it.)
4) Proc healing has reached such a ludicrous point that the same attack (#3 just above) with everything else the same, but with proc healing, could result in nothing happening.
5) With all the clicky-nonsense that exists, one is left to wonder why Cryptic even bothered to change the stacking on BO/BO, HY/HY, TS/TS, and even the ability to triple stack them with proper timing...eh? Cause you can kill folks without even firing an actual slotted weapon these days from a vape attack...meh.
6) Proc healing has reached such a ludicrous point that the same attack (#5 just above) with everything else the same, but with proc healing, could result in nothing happening.
Yeah, I've got issues all over the place with the game - both the damage side and healing side - I'm not a fan of all the yo-yo extremes that exist in STO. I'm goofy that way, I want some good ol' fashioned starship combat taking place. Don't tell anybody though, they'll give me evil looks. I've been called a delusional idealist in that regard...but to me it would be fun. Imagine instead of spending 10-15 minutes destroying 9001 ships, you spent that 10-15 minutes in epic combat against a smaller number of ships? Oh well...meh.
This also needs to tie into NPC's.. no more one shot wonder kills. Challenge to a game should not be... oooh when will I get one shot next.
Heh, it is kind of funny - not haha funny, mind you - but yeah, folks can sometimes forget that if they don't drop out some sort of AoE DoT on certain targets; they might end up eating a torp for 200-500k+ damage.
On the other hand, things like Crystalline - it's just about group make-up. If you've got the right BOFF abilities in the group, it's a walk in the park...if not, hrmm...one of those things you fake accidentally leaving.
The problem isn't the Valdore console.. it just magnifies the problem of DPS vs healing/tanking. To fix it though STO would need such a massive over haul of the currant systems that I do not know if we would ever see it.
And that's where it gets back to that serious question I had...because based on what you say here...
It seems to be that the only times I ever have died are these surprise mega crits. I have never just been widdled down to death.
...it would appear that you're saying that the issue that it is magnifying is the healing/tanking side. Yet, much of what you talk about is how it is good - balanced - and the issue is vaping.
You're saying two things...and it's kind of confusing. So which is it?
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I don't think this will change much Bort...the skewed numbers come from the overhealing above 100%
If heals were capped to not go above that full amount, the testing would yield better results...as it is now...it will probably yeild similar results.
Edit: I don't care what anyone says...when VD expresses an opinion, dev's take notice...they may not do anything but they will take notice of what he's saying. End of the day. VD...you got respect...for whatever that's worth
If your can't hold your ground against a computer-driven ship I don't want to imagine your PvP knowledge of this game, even less debating on Valdore console. And if your DPS sucks and tanking sucks as well what's the whole point of using it? Only heavy hitting tacs can run it. As far as I read, your performance was less than average. A group of PvPers can clear an elite in minutes, tell them how "hard" it is. You'll get the same answer from each one.
Fortunately I am not required to play the abomination that is player vs player in this game. It's nice to see such condescension coming from people instead of offering a more efficient way of doing things. Last time I checked the valdore console could be used by any warbird and its usage is not restricted to "heavy hitting tacs". So what if my performance was less than average, we are fighting the Borg. They're not supposed to be easy. Sorry that I'm not as good as you and your elite pvp bros and can't clear elite in minutes.
Oh wait, ise - 69 sec, cs - 84 sec, hse - 100 sec. Maybe your pvp elite team should step their game up if its taking minutes to complete.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
You could open the 10 dollar ships to the federation and klingons as the romulans already have that right...
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Bort I appreciate you commenting here in the thread and also for taking a look at the console. I do think the last part of your comment though is unfortunate. Going forward, it would really benefit everyone if things like this were considered before the item was offered in the Zen store.
The PvP community has known about the issue with the Valdore console since it's release and there have those that have been exploiting it knowingly on their Romulan characters for almost a year. There have been multiple threads on the console and it's over healing.
It's my opinion that the game will be better all around if all things are considered for balancing and that Lobi Store, Lock box, and Zen store items not be exempt from scrutiny or receive any less scrutiny because it's paid for.
Bort I appreciate you commenting here in the thread and also for taking a look at the console. I do think the last part of your comment though is unfortunate. Going forward, it would really benefit everyone if things like this were considered before the item was offered in the Zen store.
The PvP community has known about the issue with the Valdore console since it's release and there have those that have been exploiting it knowingly on their Romulan characters for almost a year. There have been multiple threads on the console and it's over healing.
It's my opinion that the game will be better all around if all things are considered for balancing and that Lobi Store, Lock box, and Zen store items not be exempt from scrutiny or receive any less scrutiny because it's paid for.
I wouldn't say it's an exploit...at all really.
Just too luck oriented for the pay off it could do
I have a rom with that console and also play non-Romulans a lot more so I can say from both ends that console is not really a problem. It doesn't give you any shield resists so won't protect you from being bursted down at all, so never gives us a problem with killing roms. How many roms do you see in warbirds tanking organized teams, none. Those scimitars you mentioned still all drop fast against our teams, that console never saves them. All it does is protect you from being whittled down by weak pressure damage from teams with lots of FAW and engs which shouldn't be getting lots of kills anyway.
I play my non-Roms much more and want Roms balanced to make the other factions more viable again but this is not the way. A nerf to a payed console won't sit well with buyers and Roms will still be just as OP as ever. What makes Roms OP is their superior cloak bonuses, warbird stats and layout, superior operative boffs and their singularity powers. Sing powers could use slight nerf, and other factions should get better boff traits and more of their ships revamped with better boff layouts, that is what is needed to balance things.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
It would have been better to just fix reporting, but if there's an intractable issue with coding, this workaround sounds fine. Don't expect it to fix the whine though. The pvp end match report had always been just an excuse, they'll find another one.;)
You could open the 10 dollar ships to the federation and klingons as the romulans already have that right...
Ah, the envy. This is what all the whine is about, isn't it? Make it like plasmonic leech, and then the whine would be about "valedore console needs a buff!":rolleyes:
Ah, the envy. This is what all the whine is about, isn't it? Make it like plasmonic leech, and then the whine would be about "valedore console needs a buff!":rolleyes:
Arguments like this always make me scratch my head...It's like you think people only play one faction. Also, read all of dahminus posts. Then you might see you're wrong about his comment.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Thanks for taking a look at it. It's an almost guaranteed 1st place in CCE when I use it.
Arguments like this always make me scratch my head...It's like you think people only play one faction. Also, read all of dahminus posts. Then you might see you're wrong about his comment.
Meh, he's always butted heads with me...we have different viewpoints.
There is no jelly on my toast here noblet...it was a perfectly legitimate request.
Romulans have access to t3(is it 4? Not 100% sure but I know it isn't top level ones) and lower ships of their aligned faction. Why couldn't klingons and feds get the same privilege? But it is a can of worms...and the console wouldn't even go on fed/klingon ships anyways...
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Or just make sure that when it procs for at near-max shield capacity it will heal for the needed hitpoints. Dam I payed for it, I don't want to see it having a nerf hammer because people can't deal with it. I kill romulans who use the console normally, they're not god and I don't have the /kill command.
MY GOD!! man you want BOPs nerfed the weakest ship in the game. STO Blasphemy !!!!!!!
By weakest I mean hull and shields not fire power but, they are by no means OP in firepower either. If your getting owned by a BOP its under 1 of 2 facts. 1. You suck . 2 The BOP player is very good. Not just anybody can jump into a BOP and start kicking TRIBBLE. It takes skill. Something you either have or don't. If anything BOPs need another buff. Hull should at least be 33k and shields should be 1. Hell man they just got a 4/2 weapons layout. Picking on a Poor little BOP. You should feel ashamed.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
LOLZ. . .. so my original post about Cryptic and not nerfing because of $$$ is accurate. When will you guys learn, they do not touch items that people spent money on--they need to make payroll. But a 90% shield facing proc point is nothing. Anyone that hits you is taking you down far more than that--so, it will still proc as intended. But, the point of the "fix" is to stop the misleading healing numbers. They mess this console up, you can say goodbye forever to another Valdore Ship sale moving forward. This is a must have console for Romulans, you tweak this too much, and sales will go to nothing in a heartbeat.
The only reason sales shot through the roof in the first place is because of the top players realizing its potential and others mimicking their builds. If it gets out that Valdore was nerfed and not good anymore. . . . well, it will trickle down that you should stay away from it and sales drop significantly.
LOLZ. . .. so my original post about Cryptic and not nerfing because of $$$ is accurate. When will you guys learn, they do not touch items that people spent money on--they need to make payroll.
Well I'm just gonna start off by saying that I fly the Fleet D'deridex. It is an absolute fantastic ship, unfortunately its a glass cannon though, it tends to die a lot. I load it up with a lot of the heals and the consoles to try and make it survive a little better.
So when I warp into an elite queue, the first thing that I do is really just take a step away from the keyboard and talk to my bridge officers on what the plan of action is for this mission. Normally is a nice useful fellow named Toran Khev. Throughout my journey as a Romulan Officer, he as been a valuable insight into what I should and should not do. Basically whatever he says goes.
Then Toran Khev, or another one of my useful bridge officers will tell me what they recommend I do, and then I take another minute or two and deliberate on their advice and whether or not their background is really suited to what the mission will entail and whether or not I should listen to them. Sometimes I find that the bridge officer who responds to me doesn't really have the best grasp on the situation at hand, so at that point I flash back to my orb experience with Captain Sisko, and ask myself, what would Sisko do? Pretty much at this point, I just leave it up to the Prophets to guide me to victory.
So after I have established a plan of action and have received the Prophets blessing, I direct my helmsman to lay in a course for the enemy, and inform him to use some various attack patterns. So now we're on our way to engage the Borg, I get on the ship's intercom and inform my crew that the situation is grave, this is the same exact species that the Federation had such a hard time with at wolf 359, so they need to know that its gettin real.
After informing my crew of the dangers that we will be facing and motivating them to do their duty, we begin to combat the Borg. Thankfully I have some nice polaron beams installed on my ship that I obtained on a diplomatic mission to the Dominion. My trusty tactical officer, Toran Khev begins to fire at will, since I trust his judgment on what to shoot at. Thanks to a nifty little combo between my bridge officers and my duty officers I am able to use a fancy ability called Auxillary to Battery. This allows Toran Khev to fire more often. This Auxillary to Battery thing is much more than a bridge officer ability, its more of a lifestyle choice.
All of a sudden my ship is in a tractor beam and cannot move, luckily my weapons are still firing and thanks to a semi useful valdore console, I am gaining a little bit of shields back every once in awhile. Unfortunately this console is not enough to keep my ship and its brave valiant crew alive, so we succumb to the borg and are forced to respawn.
So little by little myself and the brave fleet that I am apart of in this queue to stop the Borg with begin to whittle down the giant monstrosity that is the Borg vessels. By the time its all said and done, we have all respawned several times. We're gonna need a bigger fleet.
Now a big tactical cube warps in, this thing is massive and carries a lot of firepower. It somehow manages to drain my shields even though there isn't a debuff icon present while my shields are failing, the ability needs nerfed and the icon needs fixed btw, and I die again since my valdore console simply isn't doing a good enough job of healing me. So my brave team is out there fighting the Tactical Cube probably worried for their crews well being since they just saw how quickly my vessel was defeated.
A minute later I finally get back into the game and I fly towards the tactical cube and fire everything. Mines, cannons, torpedos and beams. Everything must go. About after fighting just the Tactical cube for 5-7 minutes it eventually is defeated, but we paid a heavy price.
Also how are we supposed to be reaching these 15 minute optional timers? This hardly seems long enough for such a intensely challenging Borg invasion. Doesn't hardly seem fair that the best of the best might make it, but the average player fails it every time. Just give everyone the marks off the bat and I think it would make it more enjoyable.
Anyways, thats my Elite Stf experience, it is rather time consuming and difficult.
Dear Jack,
You might find that this will help you a little bit in your endeavors: When being faced with a swarm of Zergs, it might be better to set your structures up so that you either create a choke point, or better yet, a blockage on your main base ramp. Set a couple of siege tanks behind in or around and then you can stave off the initial rush. But--and there is always a but--do not rest on your laurels as this will only work once maybe twice. You let yourself get hemmed in, well, you are toast--Valdore or not.
This is the best advice I can lend you at this point in your development.
Edit: I don't care what anyone says...when VD expresses an opinion, dev's take notice...they may not do anything but they will take notice of what he's saying. End of the day. VD...you got respect...for whatever that's worth
Meh, wanted to address this first. Heh, not calling you a liar by any means - but you know that's not true, lol. My posting in the thread had nothing to do with Bort or any other dev taking notice of any thread I post in. The only effect I may have in some threads is through sheer quantity of posts and effectively bumping something endlessly...all the meat of the discussion will actually be coming from the other posters in the thread.
I've got no inside line to the devs - no special connections - no ear of anybody at Cryptic/PWE - no compromising photos of anybody at Cryptic/PWE, lol. I'm no better than any other poster - my opinions are just opinions and the vast majority of my facts came from a bunch of other people, that I've just happened to collect because I spend entirely too much time on the forums.
Besides, I was involved a little too much in the flame side of the thread - if anybody was going to take notice of what I was saying, it probably would have been a PM from Smirk, Trendy, or Q telling me to knock it off.
I think it was Hilbert basically laying out his data and explaining it in the most objective manner possible...while sticking to that and avoiding all the petty bickering that crept up...that drew the attention of the devs. If he was putting that kind of effort into it...then yeah, it might have been something that drew their attention enough for devs. Hilbert's done a lot for not only the PvP community but the STO community as a whole. He's somebody that's going to be getting respect and the like.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Hrmmm, will that actually address the "overhealing" variable though? It suggest that your internal data currently shows an average Valdore heal that's less than 10% of the average shield cap of players and that the average damage a player receives/does is less than 5% of the average shield cap of players...otherwise it really wouldn't be eliminating overhealing?
Is the average DPV out there really that low? Hrmmm...
Is it along the lines of the expected average heal from the console then? Less than 10% of the average shield cap of players? Hrmmm...
Not suggesting it be a lower trigger point by any means - this isn't about tweaking it, just about potentially getting a better handle on the overall data to make sure that it is functioning at a point you guys are happy with.
Was just the trigger point you mentioned there got me wondering is all...hrmm, yeah - just got me wondering.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
this is a good change. it will still blow out all other healing though
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This won't solve the problem of overhealing in the slightest and will still show skewed results in the end. Since you have to be firing in the first place to get healed and will then of course take damage (one doesn't entail the other, but it would be pretty strange to see this phenomenon outside of pve). Overhealing will still take place, because (as hilbert's calculations show) the average shield heal received from the console is around 3700. That's a lot more then 10% of the average shield strength a ship may have.
Cant you change the formular, so it will only heal for:
if valdore_proc <= (max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength)
then valdore_proc
else max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength
Then it would actually be accurate, because there wouldn't exist any overhealing.
Apart from all the arguing about whether or not this Console is too powerful, we are preparing to make a small change to it's mechanics, in the hopes of allowing both our internal testers, and players, to generate more accurate reports regarding its actual output.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
When a Tac Scimtar with this console can go nose to nose by itself and blow away the end boss Tac cube at ISE with no help from the team because of this console
Thats game breaking for PvE... I am sure you can set up as Scim and do this yourself..other Romulan ships can do the same as well... the scim just does it better
It may be a problem in PvP ........Idk
Its game breaking in PvE
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This won't solve the problem of overhealing in the slightest and will still show skewed results in the end. Since you have to be firing in the first play to get healed and will then of course take damage (one, of course, doesn't entail the other, but it would be preatty strange to see this phenomeon outside of pve). Overhealing will still take place, because (as hilbert's calculations show) the average shield heal received from the console is around 3700. That's a lot more then 10% of the average shield strength a ship may have.
Cant you change the formular, so it will only heal for:
if valdore_proc <= (max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength)
then valdore_proc
else max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength
Then it would actually be accurate, because there wouldn't exist any overhealing.
Wondering if it is an overhead issue.
Cause you're basically looking at the following scenario above:
2.5% proc occurs.
Calculate amount of proc.
Compare proc amount to difference between current shield and max shield.
If the difference is greater than the proc amount, apply the proc amount.
If the difference is smaller than the proc amount, apply the difference.
Versus what it appears they are attempting to do:
If current shield is less than 90% of max shield, allow rolls for the proc.
Basically, the proc is simply disabled until reaching a certain point vs. going through the calculations and process with each proc.
Oh, no doubt I find their trigger point to be an odd one that I do not believe will resolve any overhealing problems and that what you've suggested would be the way to ensure there are no overhealing issues...just a case of wondering if they're concerned about the overhead.
Kind of like the changes to the T4 Rom reduced the transaction costs, eh?
Which leads me to wonder/speculate (draw the ire of Cryptic employees) if it's going to be a test period where they attempt to gather data to change it to a fixed amount that in the end might leave the majority of players happy - they may even see a boost, but that there will be an outcry from the "higher end" players and more happy go lucky "damn the PvPers to Hell" threads...
When a Tac Scimtar with this console can go nose to nose by itself and blow away the end boss Tac cube at ISE with no help from the team because of this console
Thats game breaking for PvE... I am sure you can set up as Scim and do this yourself..other Romulan ships can do the same as well... the scim just does it better
It may be a problem in PvP ........Idk
Its game breaking in PvE
A tac scimitar, arkif, defiant, avenger, and a long list of ships i don't care to name can go "nose to nose" with a tac cube and beat it solo. Has nothing to do with the valdore console or even romulans, has everything to do with cryptic designing content for the "average" player who does not properly build his ship or fly it.
Comments
Balance is balance. 1 = 1. Not 1.5 = 1. Not 1 = 0.75. 1 = 1. Balance is balance.
I've got no idea what has drawn you to that conclusion...
Useless is very subjective. There are many things that are useful that people claim are useless.
What have any bug fixes or tweaks got to do with PvP?
Because it is a case of looking at the balance of the Valdore console's heals vs. other heals...not a case of balancing the Valdore console vs. damage. As damage increases, the Valdore's heals will increase...as damage increases, Science Team's heal doesn't increase.
Um...like...hello?
I just posted this last night in another thread...
...so uh, is that concern enough from me over how pathetic Elite Phasers are?
Why are you lumping me in with a group, proclaiming I want something that I have never proclaimed to want?
And uh - why do you think I do not want longer fights? I mean...wtf...um...hello?
What thread have you been in?
Honestly the game would be better served if we just made a map with nothing but tribbles and sold tribble-slaying gear to these people so they could go chase numbers without breaking the rest of the game.
This console will no longer be capable of triggering unless at least one Shield Facing is below 90% maximum capacity.
This change, when it goes live, should allow us to eliminate the "overhealing" variable as a potential variable that may be skewing the numbers and behavior we're seeing.
After that change is live, and we've had time to gather reports from both testers and players, we may still consider changing the functionality of this console. However, we would not do so lightly, as we appreciate that this is an item that players have spent their Zen to obtain.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The pro valdore tear flood is imminent...
I don't think this will change much Bort...the skewed numbers come from the overhealing above 100%
If heals were capped to not go above that full amount, the testing would yield better results...as it is now...it will probably yeild similar results.
Edit: I don't care what anyone says...when VD expresses an opinion, dev's take notice...they may not do anything but they will take notice of what he's saying. End of the day. VD...you got respect...for whatever that's worth
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Fortunately I am not required to play the abomination that is player vs player in this game. It's nice to see such condescension coming from people instead of offering a more efficient way of doing things. Last time I checked the valdore console could be used by any warbird and its usage is not restricted to "heavy hitting tacs". So what if my performance was less than average, we are fighting the Borg. They're not supposed to be easy. Sorry that I'm not as good as you and your elite pvp bros and can't clear elite in minutes.
Oh wait, ise - 69 sec, cs - 84 sec, hse - 100 sec. Maybe your pvp elite team should step their game up if its taking minutes to complete.
You could open the 10 dollar ships to the federation and klingons as the romulans already have that right...
Would make a killing in sales
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Bort I appreciate you commenting here in the thread and also for taking a look at the console. I do think the last part of your comment though is unfortunate. Going forward, it would really benefit everyone if things like this were considered before the item was offered in the Zen store.
The PvP community has known about the issue with the Valdore console since it's release and there have those that have been exploiting it knowingly on their Romulan characters for almost a year. There have been multiple threads on the console and it's over healing.
It's my opinion that the game will be better all around if all things are considered for balancing and that Lobi Store, Lock box, and Zen store items not be exempt from scrutiny or receive any less scrutiny because it's paid for.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
I wouldn't say it's an exploit...at all really.
Just too luck oriented for the pay off it could do
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
I play my non-Roms much more and want Roms balanced to make the other factions more viable again but this is not the way. A nerf to a payed console won't sit well with buyers and Roms will still be just as OP as ever. What makes Roms OP is their superior cloak bonuses, warbird stats and layout, superior operative boffs and their singularity powers. Sing powers could use slight nerf, and other factions should get better boff traits and more of their ships revamped with better boff layouts, that is what is needed to balance things.
It would have been better to just fix reporting, but if there's an intractable issue with coding, this workaround sounds fine. Don't expect it to fix the whine though. The pvp end match report had always been just an excuse, they'll find another one.;)
Ah, the envy. This is what all the whine is about, isn't it? Make it like plasmonic leech, and then the whine would be about "valedore console needs a buff!":rolleyes:
Arguments like this always make me scratch my head...It's like you think people only play one faction. Also, read all of dahminus posts. Then you might see you're wrong about his comment.
Thanks for taking a look at it. It's an almost guaranteed 1st place in CCE when I use it.
Meh, he's always butted heads with me...we have different viewpoints.
There is no jelly on my toast here noblet...it was a perfectly legitimate request.
Romulans have access to t3(is it 4? Not 100% sure but I know it isn't top level ones) and lower ships of their aligned faction. Why couldn't klingons and feds get the same privilege? But it is a can of worms...and the console wouldn't even go on fed/klingon ships anyways...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Or just make sure that when it procs for at near-max shield capacity it will heal for the needed hitpoints. Dam I payed for it, I don't want to see it having a nerf hammer because people can't deal with it. I kill romulans who use the console normally, they're not god and I don't have the /kill command.
Lolz: The Ghost of Saxfire strikes again. . . . .
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
LOLZ. . .. so my original post about Cryptic and not nerfing because of $$$ is accurate. When will you guys learn, they do not touch items that people spent money on--they need to make payroll. But a 90% shield facing proc point is nothing. Anyone that hits you is taking you down far more than that--so, it will still proc as intended. But, the point of the "fix" is to stop the misleading healing numbers. They mess this console up, you can say goodbye forever to another Valdore Ship sale moving forward. This is a must have console for Romulans, you tweak this too much, and sales will go to nothing in a heartbeat.
The only reason sales shot through the roof in the first place is because of the top players realizing its potential and others mimicking their builds. If it gets out that Valdore was nerfed and not good anymore. . . . well, it will trickle down that you should stay away from it and sales drop significantly.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
True that...been nerfed so many times and is now a 30 mil console...
It's a must have item as well...as much as I hate to say it, it could use a bit of tweaking
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
He edited that in to avoid the rage.
I think plasmonic leech would like to talk to you
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Dear Jack,
You might find that this will help you a little bit in your endeavors: When being faced with a swarm of Zergs, it might be better to set your structures up so that you either create a choke point, or better yet, a blockage on your main base ramp. Set a couple of siege tanks behind in or around and then you can stave off the initial rush. But--and there is always a but--do not rest on your laurels as this will only work once maybe twice. You let yourself get hemmed in, well, you are toast--Valdore or not.
This is the best advice I can lend you at this point in your development.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Meh, wanted to address this first. Heh, not calling you a liar by any means - but you know that's not true, lol. My posting in the thread had nothing to do with Bort or any other dev taking notice of any thread I post in. The only effect I may have in some threads is through sheer quantity of posts and effectively bumping something endlessly...all the meat of the discussion will actually be coming from the other posters in the thread.
I've got no inside line to the devs - no special connections - no ear of anybody at Cryptic/PWE - no compromising photos of anybody at Cryptic/PWE, lol. I'm no better than any other poster - my opinions are just opinions and the vast majority of my facts came from a bunch of other people, that I've just happened to collect because I spend entirely too much time on the forums.
Besides, I was involved a little too much in the flame side of the thread - if anybody was going to take notice of what I was saying, it probably would have been a PM from Smirk, Trendy, or Q telling me to knock it off.
I think it was Hilbert basically laying out his data and explaining it in the most objective manner possible...while sticking to that and avoiding all the petty bickering that crept up...that drew the attention of the devs. If he was putting that kind of effort into it...then yeah, it might have been something that drew their attention enough for devs. Hilbert's done a lot for not only the PvP community but the STO community as a whole. He's somebody that's going to be getting respect and the like.
I'm just a goofball...
Hrmmm, will that actually address the "overhealing" variable though? It suggest that your internal data currently shows an average Valdore heal that's less than 10% of the average shield cap of players and that the average damage a player receives/does is less than 5% of the average shield cap of players...otherwise it really wouldn't be eliminating overhealing?
Is the average DPV out there really that low? Hrmmm...
Is it along the lines of the expected average heal from the console then? Less than 10% of the average shield cap of players? Hrmmm...
Not suggesting it be a lower trigger point by any means - this isn't about tweaking it, just about potentially getting a better handle on the overall data to make sure that it is functioning at a point you guys are happy with.
Was just the trigger point you mentioned there got me wondering is all...hrmm, yeah - just got me wondering.
this is a good change. it will still blow out all other healing though
More like, you have a beacon on your head and that what you say will be glanced at with some thought.
It's as I've said...you've got respect. And respect carries a certain subconscious disposition that Joe blue wouldn't get.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
This won't solve the problem of overhealing in the slightest and will still show skewed results in the end. Since you have to be firing in the first place to get healed and will then of course take damage (one doesn't entail the other, but it would be pretty strange to see this phenomenon outside of pve). Overhealing will still take place, because (as hilbert's calculations show) the average shield heal received from the console is around 3700. That's a lot more then 10% of the average shield strength a ship may have.
Cant you change the formular, so it will only heal for:
if valdore_proc <= (max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength)
then valdore_proc
else max_shield_strength - current_shield_strength
Then it would actually be accurate, because there wouldn't exist any overhealing.
When a Tac Scimtar with this console can go nose to nose by itself and blow away the end boss Tac cube at ISE with no help from the team because of this console
Thats game breaking for PvE... I am sure you can set up as Scim and do this yourself..other Romulan ships can do the same as well... the scim just does it better
It may be a problem in PvP ........Idk
Its game breaking in PvE
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Wondering if it is an overhead issue.
Cause you're basically looking at the following scenario above:
2.5% proc occurs.
Calculate amount of proc.
Compare proc amount to difference between current shield and max shield.
If the difference is greater than the proc amount, apply the proc amount.
If the difference is smaller than the proc amount, apply the difference.
Versus what it appears they are attempting to do:
If current shield is less than 90% of max shield, allow rolls for the proc.
Basically, the proc is simply disabled until reaching a certain point vs. going through the calculations and process with each proc.
Oh, no doubt I find their trigger point to be an odd one that I do not believe will resolve any overhealing problems and that what you've suggested would be the way to ensure there are no overhealing issues...just a case of wondering if they're concerned about the overhead.
Kind of like the changes to the T4 Rom reduced the transaction costs, eh?
Which leads me to wonder/speculate (draw the ire of Cryptic employees) if it's going to be a test period where they attempt to gather data to change it to a fixed amount that in the end might leave the majority of players happy - they may even see a boost, but that there will be an outcry from the "higher end" players and more happy go lucky "damn the PvPers to Hell" threads...
A tac scimitar, arkif, defiant, avenger, and a long list of ships i don't care to name can go "nose to nose" with a tac cube and beat it solo. Has nothing to do with the valdore console or even romulans, has everything to do with cryptic designing content for the "average" player who does not properly build his ship or fly it.