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Valdore console - too much healing
mancom
Member Posts: 784 Arc User
Let's take a look at what is colloquially known as the "Valdore console". Its official name is "Shield Absorptive Frequency Generator" and this universal console provides the player with a passive shield healing that is based on their damage output.This chart indicates that the valdore console provides way too much healing and needs to have a cap on its maximal healing rate.
Here is a PVP match: ACT log - THG match report
Do you notice that the top 3 damage dealers also have really high healing values?
Let's take a closer look at these players who are all Tac/Scimitars: We can see that a huge part of their healing comes from the valdore console. Yes, it overheals quite a bit, but if you have that kind of healing you are nigh invincible even if you waste a portion of it.
Going by these values, the effect is clearly unbalanced. The console's healing overshadows all other abilities. But maybe it was just this match and maybe other players also have such crazy healing even without this console?
So let's take a look at the general distribution of shield healing in the game, based upon log data from several thousand matches:
- Shield healing (all players): absolute - relative
- Shield healing (Valdore console users): absolute - relative
The Valdore console totally dominates the picture among players who use it. It allows them to achieve huge self-healing values that can go way beyond what other players achieve with regular healing abilities and turns ships that are designed to have lots of damage but little healing into extremely strong damage-dealing tanks.
The problem is a combination of the facts that the potential healing values can be too big / too often and that it is an always-on passive power with a huge benefit and essentially no opportunity cost.
In my opinion one should consider putting a hard cap on the maximal healing rate of the console (so that it only reduces the excesses at the top and doesn't punish players who don't get these crazy values). (See also EDIT2.)
EDIT: I wonder whether there could have been an oversight when calculating what kind of proc chance and healing values are sensible for the console. Shield heals usually say "heals each facing for TRIBBLE", which means that the true total shield healing is 4 times the value TRIBBLE because of the 4 facings (and due to TT shields are almost always taking damage on all sides so that these heals aren't wasted). Did whoever designed the ability take this into account?
With regards to the Valdore console "heals for 200% of the attack value" actually means "heals for 800% of the attack value" when one adds up all facings to get a hitpoint value that can be compared to hull healing values.
EDIT2: It seems that the healing value is based on raw damage, not hull damage. Simply changing this to hull damage as the reference point would drastically reduce the issue in PVP while having only a very small effect on PVE due to the very different hull/raw damage profiles in PVE and PVP. (Some more details.)
Post edited by mancom on
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Either non roms should get access to it or make it as useless as the Dyson hull heal
Btw, those are the best dpsers in the game...don't know if you knew that or not...a normal player may experience completely different milage
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
You know PVP is not the major part of gameplay. They already nerfed enough stuff that had alot of impact into PVE gameplay.
I know my reply will create alot of raging and argumenting now, but I am an Ex-PVP player that got fed up with all the exploiting and then "gamebalancing" afterwards...
The thing is, I have one char that uses a Box-ship with Lobi Equipment that has been hit with the nerf-hammer and is now useless even for PVE...
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Players shouldn't need to roll a Romulan or Klingon vaper to kill Romulans. There's also an easier solution; put Isometric Charge, Beam Overload, Proton Barrage, and Unstable Tetryon Latice on a 5 second shared cooldown. No more stupid one hit kill spike attacks in one second outside of Beam Overload + High Yield (which is a legitimate tactic that takes skill to perform).
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Even though they would fix up all that, they will release new overpowered content with later releases that needs nerfing. Its a neverending circle leaving the players with a stack of junk in their inventory after every year that passes.
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... your target for nerfing may be the wrong one.
Even so, developers do need to learn a lesson here --- things that are weak on weak players can be overwhelming in the hands of strong players. Stuff needs caps, in other words .... the console would be fine if it healed 5%, maybe even 10% of your shield facings per proc, for example.
Something as simple as limiting resist debuffs so they cannot reduce them below 0 would fix a lot of these "problems" without needing to nerf every single piece of gear.
Any ship with an overly competent pilot will "exploit" the console beyond what the dev's would ever of expected.
The person above me is right...what looks weak will be weak in the hands of weak players...but strong players might just break it wide open
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So instead nerf the players themselves rather than optional gear?
edit--cap it to something like 300 shield regeneration, the equivalent of EPtS1 reg, every 60 seconds
But we have no chance of fixing this if we just leave overpowered stuff overpowered.
Changing this console doesn't need to make it useless, either.
The challenge is bringing it in line.
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What was the conceptual idea behind the console? I seem to remember that the idea was something about like "if you need healing, you should run an attack, rather than away."
But it helps all the time, and it helps too much. Maybe it should have a cap of how much it heals before the power goes on an extended cooldown, or something like that. It would be more like a come-back power like RSP, but one that you have under your own control. Maybe it shouldn't be passive, but something you activate (and comes with a duration and cooldown)?
I don't have a problem with the valdore console or players doing 80k+ DPS while using it. I rarely PvP and in PvE having someone with a powerful build actually benefits me.
The OP and several other posters DO have a problem with it. Well, the problem they are complaining about isn't really the console and nerfing it will solve nothing. That is what I meant.
Valdore console is fine. It's a quite potent heal when it procs on a good shot (let's say a 3k from cannons, doubled is 6k per facing, shields up), but if you rely only on it to save you in tricky situations will leave you naked. I admit it saved me a number of times when shields were falling and couldn't do much about it except cloaking/sing jump/absorption. A nerf would make it worthless.
Did a private against those three player's Scimitars a bit later than you did (for a total of five Scimitars 5 vs 7, with peggy, barbie and rey on 5, me and another one in 7), I swear I've seen so many procs of valdore I can't tell, even for me. Anyway, for all of us, Valdore console (not sure about pedro) didn't save us from an Alpha as much as the healer could do.
It's just particularly effective on Scimitars due to firepower. On a sci ship for example it's going to be less than crappy.
As you said, those ships are tac Scimitars, I don't think they are that heavy on boff's healing, at least barbie completely doesn't.
I was talking about the debuff aspect...in regards to Tac Captains with FoMM and Sci Captains with Scan. If you change it so targets cannot be debuffed below 0, then you're nerfing Tac and Sci Captains right off the back.
As for the Console itself, and such items in general - imho, they are a cause of a plethora of issues. If I can make a few gear choices and no longer have to concern myself with survivability, I'm free to do absurd amounts of damage with little risk.
If I have to be concerned with survivability on the other hand, I'm going to have to make choices that will reduce my damage so I can survive to do that damage. Since I'll be doing less damage, targets dying slower, I'll likely have to further tweak my survivability and thus reduce damage more.
At which point damage becomes rational rather than ludicrous...
If I want to do more damage at the risk of survival, I can make a friend and bring a pocket healer.
Other factions have ships that do both and dont need to give up a console slot to help them do it. My feds Fleet Avenger shruged off multiple romulan vaper attacks (all from one romulan mind you.) supported by 2 other klingon Bops all working to kill me for cloase to 3-4 minutes straight and cuold get me below 50%. And those werent noob klinks. Considering i use the cloak on my avenger, making it a 9 console ship, this is nuts. and the Mogh could do the same if not better with the plus 1 slot. I cant think of any romulan ship that could of done that WITH the valdore console.....
The other factions dont need the console. they, as you can see, can tank without it while romulans NEED it to tank but i play ball, Give romulans an avenger clone, and you can have it. No the scimitar isnt an avenger/mogh clone. i mean a 9 turn rate, non sliding, 424 console slot ship with 5/3 weapons slots. and about 38500 to 39000 hull and a 1.1 shield mod.
I know thats not going to happen so i digress.....
i wil say here the same thing i say in other threads. Each faction has a niche. to help them play the different styles of play while being really good at their own thing.
if you want super vaping crit, roll rom.
if you want crazy heals, good sci a butt load of ships and tank, roll fed.
if you want good dil farming, faster than nutz ships and more battlecrusiers you can shake a stick at, roll KDF.
all factions shouldnt do everthing and each should have things the others dont. otherwise, why have different factions?
As for the crazy shield heals, Vm3 their butts, then SST the sheilds, OR drain them dry. they will die then......or for more funny lawls, when they start their FAW spam that gives them all the heals, scramble their sensors, let them kill their team, then gangbang them.
duh......
Problem is they cant bring it in line. If something goes under the nerf hammer it is useless 99% guaranteed.
Cryptic does two way. Either they go overboard with it or make things completly useless...
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So make it like every other ship console or give fed/klinks access.
Sounds beyond reasonable
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
I decided to completely give up resilience for sheer firepower. My best hull heal is HE1 with low aux, shields well lol nothing.
consider Valdore as an addition for healing, and it's still chance based, you can't choose when to use it. "Hey I could use a phaser proc on enemy shields now, so I can negate his rsp".
Let's consider this: Sneaking out of cloak it procs immediately, but your shields were already high enough it didn't make much difference. So if you have 5900 out of 6000 hit points and heal for 4000, you'll get 16000 total on chart for facings, but you only got 400 for real. It all depends on situations. Seconds later an escort gets a lucky shot and nukes through your shields in some seconds. Valdore didn't do much. It still says "16000 healed", but how really powerful was it?
There are moments when it REALLY does some massive healing right when you need it, but are more unique than rare. You gotta have the proc acting exactly in that moment and for a high enough number to save yourself, and it hardly happens.
My comments weren't so much in regard to PvP as for PvE...since so much of the anti-change comes from the PvE crowd - with expectations of what they should be able to do, etc, etc, etc.
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A Romulan doesn't need the Valdore console to tank. That is merely an illusion created by players now dependent on the console for their survival.
Your claim is absurd considering every Romulan ship has equal or superior stats to their Federation counterparts.
Subtly admitting the console is overpowered while attempting to bargain for something in return for the balance pass. Has anyone ever told you how pointless it is to use such arguments?
Master Chief Petty Officer Keel'el sends her regards as she laughs off your pathetic attempts to use debuffs to defeat the Valdore console.
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DHCs wave you goodbye to your lame attempts to scramble me and as someone else said, WCE Cleanse doffs greets you with a good laugh :rolleyes:
Like if VM can't be countered, SST works 100% of the times guaranteed (nothing that a shield battery won't fix), FAW when scrambled becomes DOOOOM, Drains are 100% sure tactic. Your rant... ahem argument doesn't stand sorry.
And on topic, you'd have to be delusional, no matter what part of the game you play, to not recognize that a console that increases your survivability in direct proportion to your offensive output is pretty crazy. If you like how that lets you throw defense to the wind in your builds, well thats your opinion, but even the supporters can't honestly deny how powerful this console is.