Section 31 is not a official or unofficial branch of Starfleet, DS9 make it to be "something" but they also made it NOT being a official branch.
If Section 31 did something, they would not advertise it ... in fact its supposed to be myth, like Majestic-12 and similar types of organizations.
Or maybe because they gone over that back in the Dominion War, I am not exactly fond of how the Undine plot is exactly the same as the Dominion plot in DS9 with changelings replacing people and attempting to cause conflict.
Since we have gone over that we also know what exactly happened with paranoia reaching such levels.
Again, we gone over this back in the Dominion War.
Your solution is what? The Klingon that was doing exactly jack about it? Its funny that yes the Federation did not embarked on the same type of hysteria that during the Dominion War but at the same time it seems that Undine cannot be detected by just having a blood test, this is in the Path were Chakotay that was the Head of Intelligence said this:
So you wish to instigate panic and paranoia? Klingons did about nothing on their side either...
AH yes, "idiots".
So the Hromi Cluster is apparently Fluid Space them or its full of Undine? And how about B'Vat that wanted to simply use a Planet Killer on Federation worlds, funny how he is never mentioned now isnt it, beside by me.
That the Federation didnt recognized the threat? that was a mistake yes ... but dont go around trying to sell the fantasy that the honorable Klingon Empire were fighting the Undine because thats not what happens in neither the Federation, Romulan or KDF missions, OK besides one on the Federation missions ... one.
Heck be thankful I am not rubbing your ridges in a certain mission KDF text.
Go re read the STARFLEET charter that was there BEFORE the Federation. Section 31 was written into the star fleet charter which the federation ADOPTED.
Yes the Federation were fools. Shpoks has already laid it out. And lets look at OTHER facts INSIDE the STO timeline.
1. Vulcan ambassador is proved to be an Undine infiltrator. Undine ship destroyed over P'jem. What does the federation do? Nothing.
2. Undine tratior found in KDF forces which you as the hero of the story proves once again Undine infiltration. What does the Federation do? Nothing.
3. Prove that A HIGH RANKING ADMIRAL is an Undine infiltrator. Provokes an attack on a legitimate humanitarian outpost. What does the Federation do. Listens to a prejudiced Vulcan admiral with a grudge, ignores the undine provocation and further attacks the Romualns. So once again undine infiltartion PROVEN by the federation and the PLAYER his/herself and once again, nothing.
Not until the Jenaolian dyson sphere is attacked enmass by the Undine and the intervention of Admiral Tuvok do we get "oh hey, now we admit after countless times we were wrong." instead of "oh TRIBBLE the klingons were right, we had an infiltrator at the highest levels in Vulcan, maybe we should look into this and make overatures to the Klingon Empire."
Sorry Federation tried to bury their heads in the sand multiple times and wish it away. Why I call the fed side a bunch of idiots. Shown time and AGAIN by their own rising star captain of their involvement and the Federation did ZERO. NOTHING. Sorry fed screwed the pooch by not admitting it sooner and costs the lives hundreds of thousands Klingon and Federation citizens and uniformed members alike. Resources we could of used fighting the borg when they invaded Vega, or doing an investigation of Undine infiltration. Not a witch hunt, but atleast had some investigations done.
But what did the Federation do? Buried it's head in the sand, condemned what they knew nothing about and got us into a war that was not needed. Yes idiots.
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Section 31 was invention of DS9 and Article 14, Section 31 happens to be the only know section of Starfleet charter so its kinda hard to read something that exists only a background information about Section 31 since there is nothing else about the Federation Charter besides it.
If fact the article itself was never quoted, we dont even know what is actually written.
S31 predates the Federation, they appear in ENT a couple of times with LT Reed being an agent.
S31 predates the Federation, they appear in ENT a couple of times with LT Reed being an agent.
^ Zing! But I doubt the person i am arguing with will even acknowledge this.
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(...)
I never said the Klingons are the 'white knights'. Klingons are just Klingons, what bugs me is when people acuse the Klingons for behaving like...well, a Klingon while at the same time those same people try to justify everything wrong the Federation does because they can't accept that their favourite faction in Star Trek can have flaws as well.
But but but... it is WAR and we just DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE! :eek:
^ Zing! But I doubt the person i am arguing with will even acknowledge this.
This, however, is a retcon. That means Section 31 does indeed not exist in the entire franchise up to DS9 where it was a villian from the inside. That's the thing with retcons, they simply don't work. I don't accept them either
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I wouldn't say flawed, I'd say real. Noone is perfect. Noone can be perfect all of the time.
I never said the Klingons are the 'white knights'. Klingons are just Klingons, what bugs me is when people acuse the Klingons for behaving like...well, a Klingon while at the same time those same people try to justify everything wrong the Federation does because they can't accept that their favourite faction in Star Trek can have flaws as well.
My problem is not with the Federation being portrayed as flawed. That's one of the things I like about DS9: Unlike TNG they're willing to admit that humans (like it or not, still essentially the leading race of the Federation) still aren't perfect and that we still do some abominably boneheaded things even centuries into the future.
My problem is that the scenario as presented severely strains credulity and suspension of disbelief. Last two times the Federation got infiltrated by aliens a hell of a lot better at infiltration than the Undine, our intrepid heroes immediately went after the infestation to root it out. This time? Squat. The Federation goes lalalalala I can't hear you for years on end despite the Undine, who as previously mentioned are **** at infiltration, blowing their own damn cover on numerous occasions. The only thing that let them get as far as they did is a literally unbelievable level of incompetence on the AQ/BQ end, and that's using the dictionary definition of "literally".
And let's not forget: the Klingons are a bunch of boneheads too. Per the mission with Sokketh, they can apparently precisely locate and identify Undine from multiple systems away, so surgical attacks instead of all-out war are indeed quite possible. Oh, and when your captain quite reasonably asks for evidence, the ridgeface opens fire instead. Hardly conducive to getting the Feds to help, wouldn't you say? And attacking random civilian colonies and diplomats does even less good.
The Undine just gave J'mpok and B'Vat a convenient excuse to do what they wanted to do all along. And you can thank Cryptic for the ****ty writing that makes everyone in the entire Star Trek universe look like bloodthirsty idiots too stupid to tie their own shoes.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
No because the chronological production of Star Trek series was TOS->TNG->DS9->VOY->ENT.
Section 31 did not exist in TOS or TNG, it was first mentioned in DS9, its not mentioned in Voyager and its only mentioned again in Enterprise.
Unless you are going to state Enterprise was filmed and aired before Star Trek you are not making a argument, you are attempting to say that Section 31 existed back in 1966 because of episodes written, filmed and aired in 2001.
Plus Enterprise is really easy to invalidate due to the series finale opening that possibility as being nothing but a holodeck simulation, thank you Berman and Braga.
Its as simple as it happened on screen so its canon. Or are things like the things improved on the TOS remasters something you won't accept either?
At best you are grasping at straws. If it happened on screen during a ST episode regardless of what series it is canon and happened so say CBS.
Plus Enterprise is really easy to invalidate due to the series finale opening that possibility as being nothing but a holodeck simulation, thank you Berman and Braga.
no, it's not, as much as the haters may wish
that episode concerned the founding of the federation, so OF COURSE there are going to be holodeck recreations of it...kind of like how there were holodeck recreations of both the battle of britain and the battle of the alamo that popped up late in DS9
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Plus Enterprise is really easy to invalidate due to the series finale opening that possibility as being nothing but a holodeck simulation, thank you Berman and Braga.
Well, well, well...I wanna admit it! The evul Empire was right and we Feds failed!
Eh, being paranoids, warmongers and uncivilized barbarians at least this time has been an advantage...:D
yeah, yeah, yeah, says the soft, squishy fedrat...the rihannsu will still reign supreme over all of you in the end
oh, and by the way - no uncivilized culture would ever be able to build a quadrant-spanning empire...in case you didn't realize
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Well, well, well...I wanna admit it! The evul Empire was right and we Feds failed!
Eh, being paranoids, warmongers and uncivilized barbarians at least this time has been an advantage...:D
There you have it ladies and gentlemen, if even starwrath admits that the Federation was wrong this time, then I feel safe to say /thread.
I've been calling the feds (and B'vat for his actions) Undine puppets off and on for years. I've said the same of J'mpok.
It makes me happy happy happy to see Shon step up and have some honor to admit the mistake.
No because the chronological production of Star Trek series was TOS->TNG->DS9->VOY->ENT.
Section 31 did not exist in TOS or TNG, it was first mentioned in DS9, its not mentioned in Voyager and its only mentioned again in Enterprise.
Unless you are going to state Enterprise was filmed and aired before Star Trek you are not making a argument, you are attempting to say that Section 31 existed back in 1966 because of episodes written, filmed and aired in 2001.
Plus Enterprise is really easy to invalidate due to the series finale opening that possibility as being nothing but a holodeck simulation, thank you Berman and Braga.
No because there are goofs and mistakes, there is the reflection of a stagehand in a episode for example and that doesnt make it canon. also there are easter eggs and homages such as the Millennium Falcon in "First Contact" and as I am at it, there are also in-jokes that werent supposed to be seen until HD come and we could read them now instead of being illegible.
A very good example is "Unexpected" that used the K't'inga model, if you try to use "its on screen, its canon" the the K't'inga predates the D7 that in turn is replaced by the K't'inga, there are points were its a obvious mistake or gaffe and should be ignored.
Canon is not something that must be adhered with fanaticism as being the "Holy Word".
Improved by CGI, not a retcon ... using the Romulan Bird-of-Prey in the "Enterprise Incident" without removing the D-7 cruisers is not a retcon since the Romulan Bird-of-Prey was previous used and the D-7 wasnt removed from the scene.
Same with the Orion ship moving from being a ball of light to something more distinguishable but you still have situations were its a retcon, like the Eymorg ship that have a entirely new design.
Oh and I do not believe Enterprise is entirely non-canon as being a Holodeck simulation, I do say it CAN be seen that way due to the series finale opening that door wide open, I didnt wrote the episode ... I am simply saying because of the series finale the entire series is "dubious", I doubt that was their intent but then again I cannot really say, I opt for considering were its not monumental stupid by having a K't'inga predating the D-7 that is canon, when it does things like that I say no because its stupid and Trek does have a lot of stupid things that are not considered, like "Threshold" or "Spock's Brain".
Basically if it never happened in the holy grail of the ToS didn't exist? I look at it as in the ToS, gene and crew didn't really realize the kind of grand adventure they were embarking upon when they started this shin dig and only got 4 seasons before being canceled. it wasn't until Star Trek was shown on syndicate after wards, garnered enough attention to make motion pictures then spawned TNG THEN the universe started to get expanded upon.
Sorry TOS IMHO was very FLAT and 2 dimensional at best as far as stories go, hell 1 dimensional is better. Why I liked DS9 and ENT because it opened up the universe to show humans are still very much flawed. Hell Kirk showed that humans are flawed in ST III search for spock by breaking how many regs?
Sorry your logic(or lack there of) is well silly. You cannot go by what was shot first, I go by chronological order of where it was put.
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Koren always annoyed me in the FE more than ever. Yes she is a consummate warrior however not a very intelligent one. Especially of her stature and position.
Her constant moaning and whinging that Starfleet hadn't sent ships to help protect the Klingon Homeworld wanted me to shoot her instead of the Undine. Earth spacedock was blown to pieces, hundreds of ships were burning in space, hundreds of thousands of lives had lost and humanity found itself in a fight to the death after being caught completely off guard. I'm amazed the Feds had any ships left to join the fight over Quonos at all. also she saw the whole thing with her own eves.
Koren is an idiot.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
Koren always annoyed me in the FE more than ever. Yes she is a consummate warrior however not a very intelligent one. Especially of her stature and position.
Her constant moaning and whinging that Starfleet hadn't sent ships to help protect the Klingon Homeworld wanted me to shoot her instead of the Undine. Earth spacedock was blown to pieces, hundreds of ships were burning in space, hundreds of thousands of lives had lost and humanity found itself in a fight to the death after being caught completely off guard. I'm amazed the Feds had any ships left to join the fight over Quonos at all. also she saw the whole thing with her own eves.
Koren is an idiot.
Starfleet's incompetence and lacksidaisical appraisal of the Undine threat to begin with is what lead you guys to have that shiny new ESD interior.
The Empire did send support to defend the Federation for the Undine attack; The KDF player character from the delegation at the sphere or the Bortasqu' (you know, flagship for the KDF) if you were playing the mission Fed.
All while Qo'nos was under attack simultaneously and the REAL main effort of the 8472 offensive to begin with. The bulk of the fleet was sent to attack the heart of the Klingon Empire. After all, the assault at Earth was merely a distraction with only a small portion of the Undine attacking fleet, yet they very nearly crushed Starfleet and destroy Federation / Starfleet HQ :rolleyes:
Starfleet had to recuperate and then send its help. But the Empire defended the Federation and had to defend itself.
Starfleet's incompetence and lacksidaisical appraisal of the Undine threat to begin with is what lead you guys to have that shiny new ESD interior.
The Empire did send support to defend the Federation for the Undine attack; The KDF player character from the delegation at the sphere or the Bortasqu' (you know, flagship for the KDF) if you were playing the mission Fed.
All while Qo'nos was under attack simultaneously and the REAL main effort of the 8472 offensive to begin with. The bulk of the fleet was sent to attack the heart of the Klingon Empire. After all, the assault at Earth was merely a distraction with only a small portion of the Undine attacking fleet, yet they very nearly crushed Starfleet and destroy Federation / Starfleet HQ :rolleyes:
Starfleet had to recuperate and then send its help. But the Empire defended the Federation and had to defend itself.
That you cannot refute.
They didn't find out Qo'nos was being attacked/ primary target until after the Battle of ESD and only a handful of ships survived. It took time for Shon and the F to round up what surviving ships there were in the area to go to the Klingons aid. Tuvok the Obvious pondered where the main portion of the Undine fleet went. They waited for the powers to be distracted defending Earth to make their full attack.
A small attack force, with help from infiltrators can cause enormous damage using the element of surprise you only have to read a history book to see that.
Also the Federation admitted their mistake in the conference, however the Undine plan was unknown at that point.
And Koren is still an idiot. (here is some rolleyes for you. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: )
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
Koren always annoyed me in the FE more than ever. Yes she is a consummate warrior however not a very intelligent one. Especially of her stature and position.
Her constant moaning and whinging that Starfleet hadn't sent ships to help protect the Klingon Homeworld wanted me to shoot her instead of the Undine. Earth spacedock was blown to pieces, hundreds of ships were burning in space, hundreds of thousands of lives had lost and humanity found itself in a fight to the death after being caught completely off guard. I'm amazed the Feds had any ships left to join the fight over Quonos at all. also she saw the whole thing with her own eves.
Koren is an idiot.
Moaning? Whining? I actually thought it was some brilliant trolling on Koren's part.
They didn't find out Qo'nos was being attacked/ primary target until after the Battle of ESD and only a handful of ships survived. It took time for Shon and the F to round up what surviving ships there were in the area to go to the Klingons aid. Tuvok the Obvious pondered where the main portion of the Undine fleet went. They waited for the powers to be distracted defending Earth to make their full attack.
A small attack force, with help from infiltrators can cause enormous damage using the element of surprise you only have to read a history book to see that.
Also the Federation admitted their mistake in the conference, however the Undine plan was unknown at that point.
And Koren is still an idiot. (here is some rolleyes for you. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: )
This still doesn't change the fact the the feds were the real idiot's here, admitting you were an idiot doesn't change that fact. And technically it was just Shon that admitted it, the official Federation representative was still trying to make excuses before Shon shut him up.
Also both the KDF and Starfleet were both caught by surprise, difference is, KDF is always ready for a fight. Also, the Allied fleet was right behind the Undine fleet headed to earth, while the KDf held on against the massive Undine attack for the entire time it took them to get there from earth.
Besides I believe Qo'noS is defended by a home-world defense fleet or something and certainly doesn't rely on some singular defense network that can apparently be shut down by a single infiltrator. Not that the KDF would let an infiltrator get that close in the first place, hence WHY the Undine focused them. And I find it funny that all those fed ships got wasted by the DISTRACTION. Never mind the defense network, you would figure there would be a significant amount of Starfleet ships around Sol and other core worlds, more than enough to intercept the Undine fleet and at least hold on till the allied fleet arrived. But no, they got wasted.
KDF= Superior military and more tactically minded.
ESD just need good old attack to fall apart... and need a total rebuild
Qo'nos Space Dock: Need a freaking planet killer, able to last long enough to stop it from reaching Homeworld, and after the attack is over is quickly rebuilt like the old.
ESD just need good old attack to fall apart... and need a total rebuild
Qo'nos Space Dock: Need a freaking planet killer, able to last long enough to stop it from reaching Homeworld, and after the attack is over is quickly rebuilt like the old.
Also consider the size difference, ESD could house a fleet, BoPs have to land on extended platforms for KDF starbases.
Moaning? Whining? I actually thought it was some brilliant trolling on Koren's part.
And I find it funny that all those fed ships got wasted by the DISTRACTION. Never mind the defense network, you would figure there would be a significant amount of Starfleet ships around Sol and other core worlds, more than enough to intercept the Undine fleet and at least hold on till the allied fleet arrived. But no, they got wasted.
KDF= Superior military and more tactically minded.
that's why KDF are a race of warriors and the Feds are not. (As if i didn't know that mwhahahaha!) :rolleyes:
Tuvok the Obvious would have been proud LOL.
and Koren is still an idiot.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
Diss the same brilinat writing that produced masterpieces like 'Divide et Impera'. I mean, this is the writing that made Tasha Yar look even more obnoxious and annoying in that FE than she was onscreen. Before 'Temporal Ambassador' I didn't think that would be possible. :eek:
Tell that to everyone they shoved into a hole on Rura Penthe!
What that more meant is prisoners of war. People like in Rura Penthe were prisoners because of crimes committed or similar reasons.
Kirk and McCoy for example aren't sent there because they were captured in battle, but because they were charged with the murder of Gorkon, and given life imprisonment.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
Go re read the STARFLEET charter that was there BEFORE the Federation. Section 31 was written into the star fleet charter which the federation ADOPTED.
Yes the Federation were fools. Shpoks has already laid it out. And lets look at OTHER facts INSIDE the STO timeline.
1. Vulcan ambassador is proved to be an Undine infiltrator. Undine ship destroyed over P'jem. What does the federation do? Nothing.
2. Undine tratior found in KDF forces which you as the hero of the story proves once again Undine infiltration. What does the Federation do? Nothing.
3. Prove that A HIGH RANKING ADMIRAL is an Undine infiltrator. Provokes an attack on a legitimate humanitarian outpost. What does the Federation do. Listens to a prejudiced Vulcan admiral with a grudge, ignores the undine provocation and further attacks the Romualns. So once again undine infiltartion PROVEN by the federation and the PLAYER his/herself and once again, nothing.
Not until the Jenaolian dyson sphere is attacked enmass by the Undine and the intervention of Admiral Tuvok do we get "oh hey, now we admit after countless times we were wrong." instead of "oh TRIBBLE the klingons were right, we had an infiltrator at the highest levels in Vulcan, maybe we should look into this and make overatures to the Klingon Empire."
Sorry Federation tried to bury their heads in the sand multiple times and wish it away. Why I call the fed side a bunch of idiots. Shown time and AGAIN by their own rising star captain of their involvement and the Federation did ZERO. NOTHING. Sorry fed screwed the pooch by not admitting it sooner and costs the lives hundreds of thousands Klingon and Federation citizens and uniformed members alike. Resources we could of used fighting the borg when they invaded Vega, or doing an investigation of Undine infiltration. Not a witch hunt, but atleast had some investigations done.
But what did the Federation do? Buried it's head in the sand, condemned what they knew nothing about and got us into a war that was not needed. Yes idiots.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
S31 predates the Federation, they appear in ENT a couple of times with LT Reed being an agent.
^ Zing! But I doubt the person i am arguing with will even acknowledge this.
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But but but... it is WAR and we just DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE! :eek:
This, however, is a retcon. That means Section 31 does indeed not exist in the entire franchise up to DS9 where it was a villian from the inside. That's the thing with retcons, they simply don't work. I don't accept them either
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My problem is not with the Federation being portrayed as flawed. That's one of the things I like about DS9: Unlike TNG they're willing to admit that humans (like it or not, still essentially the leading race of the Federation) still aren't perfect and that we still do some abominably boneheaded things even centuries into the future.
My problem is that the scenario as presented severely strains credulity and suspension of disbelief. Last two times the Federation got infiltrated by aliens a hell of a lot better at infiltration than the Undine, our intrepid heroes immediately went after the infestation to root it out. This time? Squat. The Federation goes lalalalala I can't hear you for years on end despite the Undine, who as previously mentioned are **** at infiltration, blowing their own damn cover on numerous occasions. The only thing that let them get as far as they did is a literally unbelievable level of incompetence on the AQ/BQ end, and that's using the dictionary definition of "literally".
And let's not forget: the Klingons are a bunch of boneheads too. Per the mission with Sokketh, they can apparently precisely locate and identify Undine from multiple systems away, so surgical attacks instead of all-out war are indeed quite possible. Oh, and when your captain quite reasonably asks for evidence, the ridgeface opens fire instead. Hardly conducive to getting the Feds to help, wouldn't you say? And attacking random civilian colonies and diplomats does even less good.
The Undine just gave J'mpok and B'Vat a convenient excuse to do what they wanted to do all along. And you can thank Cryptic for the ****ty writing that makes everyone in the entire Star Trek universe look like bloodthirsty idiots too stupid to tie their own shoes.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Its as simple as it happened on screen so its canon. Or are things like the things improved on the TOS remasters something you won't accept either?
At best you are grasping at straws. If it happened on screen during a ST episode regardless of what series it is canon and happened so say CBS.
that episode concerned the founding of the federation, so OF COURSE there are going to be holodeck recreations of it...kind of like how there were holodeck recreations of both the battle of britain and the battle of the alamo that popped up late in DS9
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
lol
oh, and by the way - no uncivilized culture would ever be able to build a quadrant-spanning empire...in case you didn't realize
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There you have it ladies and gentlemen, if even starwrath admits that the Federation was wrong this time, then I feel safe to say /thread.
Soo....../thread? :P
It makes me happy happy happy to see Shon step up and have some honor to admit the mistake.
Thats one, several million to go.
R.I.P
Basically if it never happened in the holy grail of the ToS didn't exist? I look at it as in the ToS, gene and crew didn't really realize the kind of grand adventure they were embarking upon when they started this shin dig and only got 4 seasons before being canceled. it wasn't until Star Trek was shown on syndicate after wards, garnered enough attention to make motion pictures then spawned TNG THEN the universe started to get expanded upon.
Sorry TOS IMHO was very FLAT and 2 dimensional at best as far as stories go, hell 1 dimensional is better. Why I liked DS9 and ENT because it opened up the universe to show humans are still very much flawed. Hell Kirk showed that humans are flawed in ST III search for spock by breaking how many regs?
Sorry your logic(or lack there of) is well silly. You cannot go by what was shot first, I go by chronological order of where it was put.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Her constant moaning and whinging that Starfleet hadn't sent ships to help protect the Klingon Homeworld wanted me to shoot her instead of the Undine. Earth spacedock was blown to pieces, hundreds of ships were burning in space, hundreds of thousands of lives had lost and humanity found itself in a fight to the death after being caught completely off guard. I'm amazed the Feds had any ships left to join the fight over Quonos at all. also she saw the whole thing with her own eves.
Koren is an idiot.
Starfleet's incompetence and lacksidaisical appraisal of the Undine threat to begin with is what lead you guys to have that shiny new ESD interior.
The Empire did send support to defend the Federation for the Undine attack; The KDF player character from the delegation at the sphere or the Bortasqu' (you know, flagship for the KDF) if you were playing the mission Fed.
All while Qo'nos was under attack simultaneously and the REAL main effort of the 8472 offensive to begin with. The bulk of the fleet was sent to attack the heart of the Klingon Empire. After all, the assault at Earth was merely a distraction with only a small portion of the Undine attacking fleet, yet they very nearly crushed Starfleet and destroy Federation / Starfleet HQ :rolleyes:
Starfleet had to recuperate and then send its help. But the Empire defended the Federation and had to defend itself.
That you cannot refute.
I didn't. I just didn't like him :cool:
They didn't find out Qo'nos was being attacked/ primary target until after the Battle of ESD and only a handful of ships survived. It took time for Shon and the F to round up what surviving ships there were in the area to go to the Klingons aid. Tuvok the Obvious pondered where the main portion of the Undine fleet went. They waited for the powers to be distracted defending Earth to make their full attack.
A small attack force, with help from infiltrators can cause enormous damage using the element of surprise you only have to read a history book to see that.
Also the Federation admitted their mistake in the conference, however the Undine plan was unknown at that point.
And Koren is still an idiot. (here is some rolleyes for you. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: )
Moaning? Whining? I actually thought it was some brilliant trolling on Koren's part.
This still doesn't change the fact the the feds were the real idiot's here, admitting you were an idiot doesn't change that fact. And technically it was just Shon that admitted it, the official Federation representative was still trying to make excuses before Shon shut him up.
Also both the KDF and Starfleet were both caught by surprise, difference is, KDF is always ready for a fight. Also, the Allied fleet was right behind the Undine fleet headed to earth, while the KDf held on against the massive Undine attack for the entire time it took them to get there from earth.
Besides I believe Qo'noS is defended by a home-world defense fleet or something and certainly doesn't rely on some singular defense network that can apparently be shut down by a single infiltrator. Not that the KDF would let an infiltrator get that close in the first place, hence WHY the Undine focused them. And I find it funny that all those fed ships got wasted by the DISTRACTION. Never mind the defense network, you would figure there would be a significant amount of Starfleet ships around Sol and other core worlds, more than enough to intercept the Undine fleet and at least hold on till the allied fleet arrived. But no, they got wasted.
KDF= Superior military and more tactically minded.
ESD just need good old attack to fall apart... and need a total rebuild
Qo'nos Space Dock: Need a freaking planet killer, able to last long enough to stop it from reaching Homeworld, and after the attack is over is quickly rebuilt like the old.
Also consider the size difference, ESD could house a fleet, BoPs have to land on extended platforms for KDF starbases.
that's why KDF are a race of warriors and the Feds are not. (As if i didn't know that mwhahahaha!)
Tuvok the Obvious would have been proud LOL.
and Koren is still an idiot.
Diss the same brilinat writing that produced masterpieces like 'Divide et Impera'. I mean, this is the writing that made Tasha Yar look even more obnoxious and annoying in that FE than she was onscreen. Before 'Temporal Ambassador' I didn't think that would be possible. :eek:
Kurland here...
Kurland here...
Kurland here...
Tell that to everyone they shoved into a hole on Rura Penthe!
What that more meant is prisoners of war. People like in Rura Penthe were prisoners because of crimes committed or similar reasons.
Kirk and McCoy for example aren't sent there because they were captured in battle, but because they were charged with the murder of Gorkon, and given life imprisonment.