That shipyard that got blown up was no where near big enough to house ships like the Bortas or Mogh, plus Qo'nos is the major production facility for the empires ships so I would bet its expansive like UP is.
Actually, I believe Ty'Gokor is the main production facility for the Empire's ships.
In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory. - Worf.
And how does murdering surrendered foes in cold blood add to your victory, exactly? Not to mention that, yo, not everyone KDF is a frakking ridgeface. E.g. Why would a Lethean mercenary see any profit in blowing up the DeWitt when they could just take the crew off and throw them in prison?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And how does murdering surrendered foes in cold blood add to your victory, exactly? Not to mention that, yo, not everyone KDF is a frakking ridgeface. E.g. Why would a Lethean mercenary see any profit in blowing up the DeWitt when they could just take the crew off and throw them in prison?
That's the biggest problem, though. The game is assuming that everyone's a Klingon.
Well, everyone's in the KDF at least, just like everyone's in Starfleet. Many peope may RP mercenaries, including myself - I RP a Nausicaan pirate, but as far as the game's concerned there is no such thing like a pirate/mercenary or whatever, just KDF, Starfleet & RF Officers.
That's the biggest problem, though. The game is assuming that everyone's a Klingon.
Well, everyone's in the KDF at least, just like everyone's in Starfleet. Many peope may RP mercenaries, including myself - I RP a Nausicaan pirate, but as far as the game's concerned there is no such thing like a pirate/mercenary or whatever, just KDF, Starfleet & RF Officers.
No, you were right the first time: it's assuming everyone's a Klingon specifically. Reference all the times my Lethean babbles about glory and honor and spams gratuitous tlhIngan Hol.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Agreed on all acounts. It was a great relief to me to see that they didn't retcon the entire premise behind the Fed vs. KDF war and that they decided to show consistency in this storyline.
Except they did kind of recont the cause of the war.
The war started in 2405 after the Klingons tried to annex the Hromi Cluster, its in the Path to 2409.
It had jack squat to do with the Undine unless J'mpok was replaced by one since it was his bright idea to invade federation space for a territory grab.
Except they did kind of recont the cause of the war.
The war started in 2405 after the Klingons tried to annex the Hromi Cluster, its in the Path to 2409.
It had jack squat to do with the Undine unless J'mpok was replaced by one since it was his bright idea to invade federation space for a territory grab.
How many times are you going to repeat this nonesence before you realize that noone's listening and that you're wrong?
The war started because of the Undine. Once there's war, all gloves are off.
Actually, I believe Ty'Gokor is the main production facility for the Empire's ships.
I mean in STO terms its Qo'nos, the majority of the ship descriptions in the game say produced/designed at the Qo'nos facility.
Plus Ty'gokor isnt in game though it should be.
And yeah I totally am with you on the whole not everyone is as Klingon thing, my Lethean is a merc through and through and it bugs the hell out of me when he seems to get multiple personality disorder and thinks hes a Klingon.
Actually, I believe Ty'Gokor is the main production facility for the Empire's ships.
there's nothing to support that, either in canon or ingame (mainly because ty'gokor isn't ingame)
ty'gokor was only mentioned twice, once during during enterprise, and once during DS9, where it was also shown as the location gowron had moved klingon military headquarters to
neither of those episodes ever mentioned it being a production facility or shipyard - not even so much as a repair facility
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Please tell me what the Undine had to do with that?
Because dissolved Khitomer Accords =/= war with the federation.
The Federation's blindness before evidence presneted by the Klingon Empire about the Undine infiltration in their ranks and other factions was what lead to the dissolution of the Khitomer Accord. This is what started the entire avalanche. If the Federation reckognized and acted on the threat the first time, the Khitomer Accord wouldn't be dissolved in the first place and the war wouldn't have happened. Plus there were other few drops of fuel that helped spreading the fire before this, during the fall of the RSE.
After that, it was clear that the Klingon Empire & the Federation would be at a state of war, because the KDF took a pledge to purge the galaxy from the Qa'meH quv and the Federation ignored their presence within their ranks.
What followed is only a strategic decision when and where to start the conflict, nothing more - nothing less. If J'mpok was trully guided just by conquest, then he could have easily rejected this newfound peace on the claims of something like "The Federation stained our honor with their betrayal, so they must pay for it!". What actually happened is that the Empire was ok with the new accord because the Federation finally woke up and realized what time it is.
there's nothing to support that, either in canon or ingame (mainly because ty'gokor isn't ingame)
ty'gokor was only mentioned twice, once during during enterprise, and once during DS9, where it was also shown as the location gowron had moved klingon military headquarters to
neither of those episodes ever mentioned it being a production facility or shipyard - not even so much as a repair facility
TBH, this might be something I picked up from books, I'm not sure where I got that info from atm.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
[...] and the federation isn't even a military-focused faction!
The following is a direct quote from Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki:
"[Roddenberry] was emphatic that Starfleet was not a military organization but something akin to the Coast Guard. This struck me as manifestly absurd, for what were Kirk's adventures but a species of gunboat diplomacy wherein the Federation (read America, read the Anglo-Saxons) was always right and aliens werein Kipling's queasy phrase'lesser breeds'? Yes, there was lip service to minority participation, but it was clear who was driving the boat." (The View from the Bridge - Memories of Star Trek and a Life in Hollywood, hardcover ed., p. 81)
Pretty much what the title says honestly. I'm really glad that they didn't TRIBBLE the Klingons over in the FE. Sure maybe Shon should have a reprimand or something on his record for interrupting Sugihara, but still, it was an in-game admission by the Federation that they were wrong.
Honestly, it was the highlight of the entire FE for me, even over the Iconian appearing.
They hit a lot of points in the FE, most of which were spectacularly done. This was one of them - Shon realizing that butting heads isn't the answer.
(P.S. Sujihara sucks. Someone should fire him.)
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Where is the honour in killing helpless, surrendered, prisoners? We're Klingons, not barbarians!
Klingons have a tradition of not taking prisoners. It goes back a looong way. It's not all the time, but if someone is captured, its for a damn good reason. Like getting someone to spill something important like, "Where's Genesis?" (Star Trek III).
THAT is Star Trek canon.
It's not the Empire's fault the fools didn't die an honorable death in battle :cool:
Klingons have a tradition of not taking prisoners. It goes back a looong way. It's not all the time, but if someone is captured, its for a damn good reason. Like getting someone to spill something important like, "Where's Genesis?" (Star Trek III).
THAT is Star Trek canon.
It's not the Empire's fault the fools didn't die an honorable death in battle :cool:
This is true in general, that part of Klingon honour is akin to what the stereotypical sense of honour for japanese samurai was. You aren't doing your enemy a favour if you let them live in shame. Then again, Klingons also spout about dying in battle when this is for the most part is most nonsensical thing to do, for a good reason their ships do have escape pods
It is generally not a good thing to force decisions upon the player - not every Klingon has to work like a stereotype, not even speaking of non-klingons. For example, one mission in the "tour of duty" story arc where you chase drake around let's you encounter Starfleet ships that are violating your space due to a false signal drake sent. The dialogue let's you choose not to fight them (something Martok for example would have chosen, since it would be a nonsensical fight and it does hinder your task at hand) only to reveal the last dialogue is "LOL I'm gonna kill you anyways, despite I said no" which, if you chose the Martok way, even forces you to break your word. Not to mention that non-klingon characters probably curse in Klingon all the time as well
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The Federation's blindness before evidence presneted by the Klingon Empire about the Undine infiltration...
Yes, becuase when I think about how dangerous the Undine are its the infiltrators and not that they have enough fire power to almost wipe the freaking Borg out in their own space :rolleyes:
Seriously how exactly does the Klingon Empire wasting time invading and conquering other powers becuase they suspect they might be infiltrated by the Undine actually help the galaxy when the Undine can just outright blow up planets and crush fleets with their military might?
Because to me it looks like they are weakening the galaxy by weakening other races militaries as well as their own to take out a few enemy operatives at best while antagonizing the rest of the galaxy in the process leaving it weaken and divided when the Undine arrive in force to kill them all.
Yes, becuase when I think about how dangerous the Undine are its the infiltrators and not that they have enough fire power to almost wipe the freaking Borg out in their own space :rolleyes:
Yes, and yet this is STO where I can solo a Tactical Cube or an Unimatrix Ship with my new Tempest with run of the mill gear.
Seriously how exactly does the Klingon Empire wasting time invading and conquering other powers becuase they suspect they might be infiltrated by the Undine actually help the galaxy when the Undine can just outright blow up planets and crush fleets with their military might?
Because to me it looks like they are weakening the galaxy by weakening other races militaries as well as their own to take out a few enemy operatives at best while antagonizing the rest of the galaxy in the process leaving it weaken and divided when the Undine arrive in force to kill them all.
I separated those quotes because you answered the question yourself. If the Undine are all that as you describe and they can outright blow up planets and crush fleets, then what difference does it make if the other factions weaken in conflict between themselves? I mean, since the Undine are all that (which for the sake of truth they were in VOY), they'll just roflstomp everything anyway.
Look, it's ok to be a fan of one faction over the other, but that doesn't mean you need to be blind as to what is going on or turn around everytime your faction of choice makes a crappy decision.
The fact is that the Klingons had either the choice to ignore that the Federation is infiltrated with the Undine a let the situation revolve as it's going to revolve even though it could mean the Federation becomming an Undine puppet, or they could face them in war which would at least keep the Federation on their toes, and if successful weed out the Undine from the Federation by means on conquest. Noone is saying it was a perfect choice, but it was pretty much the only choice they had from their perspective - given that they're Klingon and they won't ignore what's happening and just stand aside doing nothing.
Anyway, the discussion we're having is moot about now anyway, since in the latest FE the Federation flat out admited being wrong themselves. They could have avoided the war if they had the sense to listen what the Empire was saying, but they didn't - thus giving a reason for the war. And now when they admited being wrong and realized what's going on, there's a cease fire. It's as simple as that.
The fact is that the Klingons had either the choice to ignore that the Federation is infiltrated with the Undine
Accusations leveled at federation citizens of course coming on the Klingons say so, with them screaming like children and shooting if you ask for proof.
a let the situation revolve as it's going to revolve even though it could mean the Federation becomming an Undine puppet,
Or considering how easily they seem to be to root out after the federation starts hunting them actively wait for them to get around to handling it.
or they could face them in war which would at least keep the Federation on their toes, and if successful weed out the Undine from the Federation by means on conquest.
Considering what Section 31 tried to do to the last race that almost conquered the Federation the Klingons might want to reconsider that idea.
Not to mention that if it wasn't for the federation the Dominion War would have ended with the Klingons enslaved and from the sounds of it, Qo'noS destroyed so I'm not seeing how a Klingon controlled quadrant wouldn't be doomed.
Accusations leveled at federation citizens of course coming on the Klingons say so, with them screaming like children and shooting if you ask for proof.
Do you even play this game or just post on the forum? Have you paid attention at all? Or are you just trolling here because you don't have anything better to do for the time being?
The Klingon Empire offered proof. The Klingon Empire also offered cooperation on weeding out the Undine as per the Khitomer Accord. The Federation flat out refused to even send a representative to establish wheather the Klingon claims have ground or not.
Or considering how easily they seem to be to root out after the federation starts hunting them actively wait for them to get around to handling it.
Oh yes, they're rooting them out easily.
That's why they listened to Soketh's claims that the Undine are peaceful explorers from fluidic space. :rolleyes:
That's why they had Admiral Zelle commit a genocide on a medical facility.
That's why they had Dr.Cooper open a door between the Delta Quadrant and the Solanae Sphere. :rolleyes:
Some premium class rooting out going on there. :rolleyes:
Not to mention that if it wasn't for the federation the Dominion War would have ended with the Klingons enslaved and from the sounds of it, Qo'noS destroyed so I'm not seeing how a Klingon controlled quadrant wouldn't be doomed.
Seriously what are you even doing in this part of the forum besides trolling? Are you lost?
I'll tell you something now that maybe too hard for you to accept, as the blind fanboy you seem to be - If it wasn't not for the Federation, but Legate Damar and the Cardassians, everyone would have been enslaved.
And Earth would've probably become a Breen blast zone as promised by the Female Founder.
No "But," "well," "what about," "however"... The Federation admitted they were wrong, after the morons finally looked at the proof.
Finally looked at the proof after a costly, now unnecessary war, if they even bothered to check things out with their ally.
Ha. The "heroic" Federation. You guys didn't seem that "heroic" as you were massacring Romulan doctors and other medical and research personnel, even as they were pleading and begging you to stop. Who were trying to come up with a technological solution in finding Undine infiltrators.
The "heroic" Federation, Hahahahaha!
And even after discovering that a Starfleet Admiral... AN ADMIRAL... was replaced by an Undine infiltrator that escaped, laughing the whole way... And don't forget the Undine Infiltrator that replaced a Vulcan Diplomat from waaaaayyy earlier in the STO Fed campaign... even after all this, Starfleet and the Federation did nothing. They did nothing in trying to find infiltrators, which was a very serious threat even back during the Dominion War by Changelings.
What gets even better after the Romulan medical personnel massacre, the fact that Adm.Zelle was indeed an 8472 infiltrator, what did Starfleet do?
"Let's go fight Romulans."
"But, sir, the Admiral was an Undine!"
"Yeah, so? Let's fight Romulans."
"Sir, we've been carrying out orders on behalf of Species 8472!"
"I don't see your point..."
"If they replaced an Admiral in Starfleet Command, what else has been going on? What else have we been doing that's completely wrong and in the Undine's favor?"
"Captain, you will go and fight the Romulans. With luck, you'll kill more poorly defended medical and research personnel that had absolutely nothing to do with our campaign."
Sad part is, Section 31 after you find out Zelle is an undine, didn't do a damn thing. Just swept under the rug. Honestly I didn't know who was the bigger threat. Section 31, the Federation Admiralty who didn't give a frak, or the undine.
It was like the Federation had blinders on the whole time. Vulcan ambassador, Federation Admiral, and you find a klingon infiltrator as well before you hit admiral and it's the the federation could care less.
Then at the new FE "Oh hey you were right once we saw them show up at the other dyson's sphere, sorry bout that!"
Idiots.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well son, you might want to rethink asking that because at no point the game actually tell you that, in fact you would have to go do the lore academy questions to even know since the information is not present in the game in such a way.
First of all, don't patronize me by calling me "son" because it only makes you sound stupid. Unless that was in fact your goal, and if so - carry on, by all means.
I don't know what world you live in, but in this thing we call 'reality' here the lore pieces are a part of the game. They're an in game daily mission accessible to everyone through playing the game. The only requirements are having the will to do them and be able to read, just as in any game content. They even give out 480 Dilithium and some XP if you get the answers right. And for the non-patient or lazy ones, they're even on the STOWiki.
The person I quoted should have known them from playing the game if he wants to come here and have an adult and relevant conversation. I found about them that way - by playing the game. If he didn't, he should have after the first time he posted his nonesence and was debunked, instead of repeating himself.
In fact the entire Klingon storyline is devoid of Undine, sure Feds get some and that includes some one as Klingon in "Stop the Signal" but the point stands that in the game there exactly no evidence presented by the Klingons.
That is true. It has also been something the KDF players have asked for multiple times, Cryptic to do something on the KDF side in regards to story missions around the Gorn-KDF war, the KDF-Fed war and the Undine chase. However, the treatment the red faction in STO gets is no secret, so nothing being done about this is no shocker.
That doesn't change the fact that the lore pieces are a part of the game. It also doesn't change the fact that the person I quoted could have very easily accesed them once he noticed that almost everyone is telling him he's wrong. Instead, the just continues to repeat this own biased observations and wishfull thinking over and over again.
Well apparently I dont anything better to do since I am searching the STO wiki for this, mind you its either this or go read the accolades from the daily lore datachips since this isnt present in the game outside the accolades description.
I can't, for the love of Trek, understand how you figured out that this is being adressed at you? Unless heartzilla is your alt account.
And once again - the accolades are a part of the game. They're in-game achievments.
If we ignore the previous Gorn-Klingon engagements and the attempts of peace talks durings by the Federation were one in K-7 ended up with a bombing linked to a Klingon (Volume 12, Chapter 2) and another one with bombing in Casperia Prime also by a Klingon (Volume 19, Chapter 5), lets not pretend the Klingons werent already engaged with the Gorn in a war for quite a while now, whatever you like it or not the whole "UNDINE!!!" really stinks of a excuse.
Dude, do you have a basic idea how a war works? The fact that the Undine were infiltrated in the highest ranks of the Gorn Hegemony only served to fortify the Empire's position. The first spark ignited in the lore piece you mentioned yourself - when the Quv was attacked by a Gorn ship, with the Hegemony claiming it was a renegade Gorn ship and yet refusing to hand over the survivors to the Klingon Empire.
Um....hello? You have the most agressive and warmongering Empire at your doorstep, made of species that value their view on honor above all and who consider being captive and enslaved the greatest dishonor anyone could imagine and what do you do? You tell them to go TRIBBLE themselves and that you're not handing over their survivors that you claim renegades captured.
That's a whole new level of dumb and quite frankly, I think the Gorn fared well afterwards. I'd fully expected the KDF to level all their planets and exterminate their species. It only shows J'mpok's pragmatism and leadership skills to reckognize that these acts of stupidity were probably Undine doings and bare no ill-will towards the Gorn because of that.
And the bombings? Have you ever heard of terrorists? Criminals?
Do you know how the Klingon governing system works?
Councilor Konjah being revealed to been a Undine: Volume 22, Chapter 3
I am going to say this even if it feels trollish but I have no idea what kind of fanfic you have in your head about STO storyline but I dont think its supported by the Path to 2409 and common sense.
The Federation had the Klingons using the Undine as a justification to invade Gorn space and mind you even before that they already attacked a Gorn colony world, not really surprising they would not exactly believe them, especially when in 2 occasions they were involved with bombings, now you go on about the Federation being puppets of the Undine but really ... the game does hammer the Gorn arent pleased with the situation and are one of the weak links of the Klingon Empire, plus by starting a war with the Federation how exactly THAT would help them fight the Undine?
Oh my dear God! How many times would I have to repeat things I've already said before because people can't be bothered to read? Fanfic? Fanfic is only your biased observation of the situation that even negates in-game events at your convenience.
Did the Gorn provoke the Klingons first? Is it a good thing to provoke the Klingon Empire in such manner? Did the KDF exterminate the Gorn, or they realized their decisions were manipulated by the Undine infiltrators and even gave them a non-voting seat on the High Council? The first non-Klingon species to have a seat in the High Council!
The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still allied under the Khitomer Acord. Their ally faced an unprovoked attack on their starship, furthermore faced the refusal to hand over the survivors even though the Gorn claims were that the Gorn ship was operating without orders, and what did the Feds do? Hum?
The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still allied under the Khitomer Acord when the Empire invited the Federation into the operation in Gorn space, as per the accords. What did their "allies" the Feds do? They refused to even send a single representative to confirm wheather what the Klingons are claiming about the Undine is true or not. They just decided to condemn their allies for an invasion they know nothing about and they're not interested to find out first hand.
And besides, who gave the Federation the right to act as the policeman of the galaxy?
The Gorn are displeased? Maybe, maybe not. Some of them probably, others not. I know, how about you play 'Surface Tension' and ask our friend Ambasador Stass about it?
This was after the Gorn were conquered so ... what is this? Explain exactly how can this be viewed as anything but a landgrab?
I am sorry the fact I am NOT BUYING how the Great and Honorable Klingons trying to defend the Alpha Quadrant by ... demand territorial concessions from the Federation, I am not exactly seeing how THAT have anything to do with the Undine.
Before that event, the Empire has been insulted by the Federation on multiple ocassions, starting with the skirmishes with the RSE after the Hobus incident. To add insult to the injury, this was happening while they were suposed to be allied with them.
By the time of this event, the Klingons probably had enough of the Federation. They also had valid suspicions that there are Undine infiltrated in the Federation, probably extracted from the captured Undine, while the Federation decided to completely ignore that and act dumb.
Again, do you have a basic idea how a war works? War is war. The goals of war are evident, ofcourse there will be landgrab in war. How do you wage a war while leaving your enemy's territories untouched and the resources in those terittories at their disposal to use against you?? The Klingons are not your family, they are an alien species with an Empire of their own, they don't need to show mercy or understanding.
Was it only about landgrab? 'Surface Tension' says no, because J'mpok agreed to the new accord without any territorial gains just because the Federation woke up, admited being wrong and apologized.
Why would the Empire agree to a cease fire now if it all was about conquest of Federation systems like you claim? You guys need to accept the fact that the 'white knights' of Star Trek can also ocassionaly be wrong and mess up.
Again, do you have a basic idea how a war works? War is war. The goals of war are evident, ofcourse there will be landgrab in war. How do you wage a war while leaving your enemy's territories untouched and the resources in those terittories at their disposal to use against you?? The Klingons are not your family, they are an alien species with an Empire of their own, they don't need to show mercy or understanding.
except that the federation-klingon war didn't actually start until the klingons invaded korvat - an invasion that happened AFTER the federation told jm'pok to go TRIBBLE himself in response to his demands for territorial consessions...and frankly, they were well within their right to tell him such
the federation haven't been white knights since late TNG when they tried to forcibly relocate a planet's population, but the klingons never were to begin with - BOTH factions are seriously flawed
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
except that the federation-klingon war didn't actually start until the klingons invaded korvat - an invasion that happened AFTER the federation told jm'pok to go TRIBBLE himself in response to his demands for territorial consessions...and frankly, they were well within their right to tell him such
True, but that doesn't negate the reasons I mentioned before that led to such deteriment of the Federation - KDF relations. By the time this happened, all they needed was a spark to point out as the reason for engaging in hostilities.
the federation haven't been white knights since late TNG when they tried to forcibly relocate a planet's population, but the klingons never were to begin with - BOTH factions are seriously flawed
I wouldn't say flawed, I'd say real. Noone is perfect. Noone can be perfect all of the time.
I never said the Klingons are the 'white knights'. Klingons are just Klingons, what bugs me is when people acuse the Klingons for behaving like...well, a Klingon while at the same time those same people try to justify everything wrong the Federation does because they can't accept that their favourite faction in Star Trek can have flaws as well.
Comments
In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory. - Worf.
Actually, I believe Ty'Gokor is the main production facility for the Empire's ships.
And how does murdering surrendered foes in cold blood add to your victory, exactly? Not to mention that, yo, not everyone KDF is a frakking ridgeface. E.g. Why would a Lethean mercenary see any profit in blowing up the DeWitt when they could just take the crew off and throw them in prison?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's the biggest problem, though. The game is assuming that everyone's a Klingon.
Well, everyone's in the KDF at least, just like everyone's in Starfleet. Many peope may RP mercenaries, including myself - I RP a Nausicaan pirate, but as far as the game's concerned there is no such thing like a pirate/mercenary or whatever, just KDF, Starfleet & RF Officers.
No, you were right the first time: it's assuming everyone's a Klingon specifically. Reference all the times my Lethean babbles about glory and honor and spams gratuitous tlhIngan Hol.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Klingons don't take prisoners.
Except they did kind of recont the cause of the war.
The war started in 2405 after the Klingons tried to annex the Hromi Cluster, its in the Path to 2409.
It had jack squat to do with the Undine unless J'mpok was replaced by one since it was his bright idea to invade federation space for a territory grab.
How many times are you going to repeat this nonesence before you realize that noone's listening and that you're wrong?
The war started because of the Undine. Once there's war, all gloves are off.
I mean in STO terms its Qo'nos, the majority of the ship descriptions in the game say produced/designed at the Qo'nos facility.
Plus Ty'gokor isnt in game though it should be.
And yeah I totally am with you on the whole not everyone is as Klingon thing, my Lethean is a merc through and through and it bugs the hell out of me when he seems to get multiple personality disorder and thinks hes a Klingon.
Well, at least the newest 'pride of the Empire' is safe - the Mogh Class is being constructed in Ganalda System.
Really becuase it in the game as accolades here is the two relevant ones.
Volume 25
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore#Volume_25
Volume 26
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore#Volume_26
Please tell me what the Undine had to do with that?
Because dissolved Khitomer Accords =/= war with the federation.
ty'gokor was only mentioned twice, once during during enterprise, and once during DS9, where it was also shown as the location gowron had moved klingon military headquarters to
neither of those episodes ever mentioned it being a production facility or shipyard - not even so much as a repair facility
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Federation's blindness before evidence presneted by the Klingon Empire about the Undine infiltration in their ranks and other factions was what lead to the dissolution of the Khitomer Accord. This is what started the entire avalanche. If the Federation reckognized and acted on the threat the first time, the Khitomer Accord wouldn't be dissolved in the first place and the war wouldn't have happened. Plus there were other few drops of fuel that helped spreading the fire before this, during the fall of the RSE.
After that, it was clear that the Klingon Empire & the Federation would be at a state of war, because the KDF took a pledge to purge the galaxy from the Qa'meH quv and the Federation ignored their presence within their ranks.
What followed is only a strategic decision when and where to start the conflict, nothing more - nothing less. If J'mpok was trully guided just by conquest, then he could have easily rejected this newfound peace on the claims of something like "The Federation stained our honor with their betrayal, so they must pay for it!". What actually happened is that the Empire was ok with the new accord because the Federation finally woke up and realized what time it is.
TBH, this might be something I picked up from books, I'm not sure where I got that info from atm.
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— Sabaton, "Great War"
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The following is a direct quote from Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki:
They hit a lot of points in the FE, most of which were spectacularly done. This was one of them - Shon realizing that butting heads isn't the answer.
(P.S. Sujihara sucks. Someone should fire him.)
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Klingons have a tradition of not taking prisoners. It goes back a looong way. It's not all the time, but if someone is captured, its for a damn good reason. Like getting someone to spill something important like, "Where's Genesis?" (Star Trek III).
THAT is Star Trek canon.
It's not the Empire's fault the fools didn't die an honorable death in battle :cool:
This is true in general, that part of Klingon honour is akin to what the stereotypical sense of honour for japanese samurai was. You aren't doing your enemy a favour if you let them live in shame. Then again, Klingons also spout about dying in battle when this is for the most part is most nonsensical thing to do, for a good reason their ships do have escape pods
It is generally not a good thing to force decisions upon the player - not every Klingon has to work like a stereotype, not even speaking of non-klingons. For example, one mission in the "tour of duty" story arc where you chase drake around let's you encounter Starfleet ships that are violating your space due to a false signal drake sent. The dialogue let's you choose not to fight them (something Martok for example would have chosen, since it would be a nonsensical fight and it does hinder your task at hand) only to reveal the last dialogue is "LOL I'm gonna kill you anyways, despite I said no" which, if you chose the Martok way, even forces you to break your word. Not to mention that non-klingon characters probably curse in Klingon all the time as well
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Yes, becuase when I think about how dangerous the Undine are its the infiltrators and not that they have enough fire power to almost wipe the freaking Borg out in their own space :rolleyes:
Seriously how exactly does the Klingon Empire wasting time invading and conquering other powers becuase they suspect they might be infiltrated by the Undine actually help the galaxy when the Undine can just outright blow up planets and crush fleets with their military might?
Because to me it looks like they are weakening the galaxy by weakening other races militaries as well as their own to take out a few enemy operatives at best while antagonizing the rest of the galaxy in the process leaving it weaken and divided when the Undine arrive in force to kill them all.
Yes, and yet this is STO where I can solo a Tactical Cube or an Unimatrix Ship with my new Tempest with run of the mill gear.
I separated those quotes because you answered the question yourself. If the Undine are all that as you describe and they can outright blow up planets and crush fleets, then what difference does it make if the other factions weaken in conflict between themselves? I mean, since the Undine are all that (which for the sake of truth they were in VOY), they'll just roflstomp everything anyway.
Look, it's ok to be a fan of one faction over the other, but that doesn't mean you need to be blind as to what is going on or turn around everytime your faction of choice makes a crappy decision.
The fact is that the Klingons had either the choice to ignore that the Federation is infiltrated with the Undine a let the situation revolve as it's going to revolve even though it could mean the Federation becomming an Undine puppet, or they could face them in war which would at least keep the Federation on their toes, and if successful weed out the Undine from the Federation by means on conquest. Noone is saying it was a perfect choice, but it was pretty much the only choice they had from their perspective - given that they're Klingon and they won't ignore what's happening and just stand aside doing nothing.
Anyway, the discussion we're having is moot about now anyway, since in the latest FE the Federation flat out admited being wrong themselves. They could have avoided the war if they had the sense to listen what the Empire was saying, but they didn't - thus giving a reason for the war. And now when they admited being wrong and realized what's going on, there's a cease fire. It's as simple as that.
Accusations leveled at federation citizens of course coming on the Klingons say so, with them screaming like children and shooting if you ask for proof.
Or considering how easily they seem to be to root out after the federation starts hunting them actively wait for them to get around to handling it.
Considering what Section 31 tried to do to the last race that almost conquered the Federation the Klingons might want to reconsider that idea.
Not to mention that if it wasn't for the federation the Dominion War would have ended with the Klingons enslaved and from the sounds of it, Qo'noS destroyed so I'm not seeing how a Klingon controlled quadrant wouldn't be doomed.
Do you even play this game or just post on the forum? Have you paid attention at all? Or are you just trolling here because you don't have anything better to do for the time being?
The Klingon Empire offered proof. The Klingon Empire also offered cooperation on weeding out the Undine as per the Khitomer Accord. The Federation flat out refused to even send a representative to establish wheather the Klingon claims have ground or not.
Oh yes, they're rooting them out easily.
That's why they listened to Soketh's claims that the Undine are peaceful explorers from fluidic space. :rolleyes:
That's why they had Admiral Zelle commit a genocide on a medical facility.
That's why they had Dr.Cooper open a door between the Delta Quadrant and the Solanae Sphere. :rolleyes:
Some premium class rooting out going on there. :rolleyes:
LMAO!!!
Seriously what are you even doing in this part of the forum besides trolling? Are you lost?
I'll tell you something now that maybe too hard for you to accept, as the blind fanboy you seem to be - If it wasn't not for the Federation, but Legate Damar and the Cardassians, everyone would have been enslaved.
And Earth would've probably become a Breen blast zone as promised by the Female Founder.
Plain and simple.
No "But," "well," "what about," "however"... The Federation admitted they were wrong, after the morons finally looked at the proof.
Finally looked at the proof after a costly, now unnecessary war, if they even bothered to check things out with their ally.
Ha. The "heroic" Federation. You guys didn't seem that "heroic" as you were massacring Romulan doctors and other medical and research personnel, even as they were pleading and begging you to stop. Who were trying to come up with a technological solution in finding Undine infiltrators.
The "heroic" Federation, Hahahahaha!
And even after discovering that a Starfleet Admiral... AN ADMIRAL... was replaced by an Undine infiltrator that escaped, laughing the whole way... And don't forget the Undine Infiltrator that replaced a Vulcan Diplomat from waaaaayyy earlier in the STO Fed campaign... even after all this, Starfleet and the Federation did nothing. They did nothing in trying to find infiltrators, which was a very serious threat even back during the Dominion War by Changelings.
What gets even better after the Romulan medical personnel massacre, the fact that Adm.Zelle was indeed an 8472 infiltrator, what did Starfleet do?
"Let's go fight Romulans."
"But, sir, the Admiral was an Undine!"
"Yeah, so? Let's fight Romulans."
"Sir, we've been carrying out orders on behalf of Species 8472!"
"I don't see your point..."
"If they replaced an Admiral in Starfleet Command, what else has been going on? What else have we been doing that's completely wrong and in the Undine's favor?"
"Captain, you will go and fight the Romulans. With luck, you'll kill more poorly defended medical and research personnel that had absolutely nothing to do with our campaign."
Ha. The Federation :P
It was like the Federation had blinders on the whole time. Vulcan ambassador, Federation Admiral, and you find a klingon infiltrator as well before you hit admiral and it's the the federation could care less.
Then at the new FE "Oh hey you were right once we saw them show up at the other dyson's sphere, sorry bout that!"
Idiots.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
First of all, don't patronize me by calling me "son" because it only makes you sound stupid. Unless that was in fact your goal, and if so - carry on, by all means.
I don't know what world you live in, but in this thing we call 'reality' here the lore pieces are a part of the game. They're an in game daily mission accessible to everyone through playing the game. The only requirements are having the will to do them and be able to read, just as in any game content. They even give out 480 Dilithium and some XP if you get the answers right. And for the non-patient or lazy ones, they're even on the STOWiki.
The person I quoted should have known them from playing the game if he wants to come here and have an adult and relevant conversation. I found about them that way - by playing the game. If he didn't, he should have after the first time he posted his nonesence and was debunked, instead of repeating himself.
That is true. It has also been something the KDF players have asked for multiple times, Cryptic to do something on the KDF side in regards to story missions around the Gorn-KDF war, the KDF-Fed war and the Undine chase. However, the treatment the red faction in STO gets is no secret, so nothing being done about this is no shocker.
That doesn't change the fact that the lore pieces are a part of the game. It also doesn't change the fact that the person I quoted could have very easily accesed them once he noticed that almost everyone is telling him he's wrong. Instead, the just continues to repeat this own biased observations and wishfull thinking over and over again.
Your point?
I can't, for the love of Trek, understand how you figured out that this is being adressed at you? Unless heartzilla is your alt account.
And once again - the accolades are a part of the game. They're in-game achievments.
Dude, do you have a basic idea how a war works? The fact that the Undine were infiltrated in the highest ranks of the Gorn Hegemony only served to fortify the Empire's position. The first spark ignited in the lore piece you mentioned yourself - when the Quv was attacked by a Gorn ship, with the Hegemony claiming it was a renegade Gorn ship and yet refusing to hand over the survivors to the Klingon Empire.
Um....hello? You have the most agressive and warmongering Empire at your doorstep, made of species that value their view on honor above all and who consider being captive and enslaved the greatest dishonor anyone could imagine and what do you do? You tell them to go TRIBBLE themselves and that you're not handing over their survivors that you claim renegades captured.
That's a whole new level of dumb and quite frankly, I think the Gorn fared well afterwards. I'd fully expected the KDF to level all their planets and exterminate their species. It only shows J'mpok's pragmatism and leadership skills to reckognize that these acts of stupidity were probably Undine doings and bare no ill-will towards the Gorn because of that.
And the bombings? Have you ever heard of terrorists? Criminals?
Do you know how the Klingon governing system works?
Oh my dear God! How many times would I have to repeat things I've already said before because people can't be bothered to read? Fanfic? Fanfic is only your biased observation of the situation that even negates in-game events at your convenience.
Did the Gorn provoke the Klingons first? Is it a good thing to provoke the Klingon Empire in such manner? Did the KDF exterminate the Gorn, or they realized their decisions were manipulated by the Undine infiltrators and even gave them a non-voting seat on the High Council? The first non-Klingon species to have a seat in the High Council!
The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still allied under the Khitomer Acord. Their ally faced an unprovoked attack on their starship, furthermore faced the refusal to hand over the survivors even though the Gorn claims were that the Gorn ship was operating without orders, and what did the Feds do? Hum?
The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still allied under the Khitomer Acord when the Empire invited the Federation into the operation in Gorn space, as per the accords. What did their "allies" the Feds do? They refused to even send a single representative to confirm wheather what the Klingons are claiming about the Undine is true or not. They just decided to condemn their allies for an invasion they know nothing about and they're not interested to find out first hand.
And besides, who gave the Federation the right to act as the policeman of the galaxy?
The Gorn are displeased? Maybe, maybe not. Some of them probably, others not. I know, how about you play 'Surface Tension' and ask our friend Ambasador Stass about it?
Before that event, the Empire has been insulted by the Federation on multiple ocassions, starting with the skirmishes with the RSE after the Hobus incident. To add insult to the injury, this was happening while they were suposed to be allied with them.
By the time of this event, the Klingons probably had enough of the Federation. They also had valid suspicions that there are Undine infiltrated in the Federation, probably extracted from the captured Undine, while the Federation decided to completely ignore that and act dumb.
Again, do you have a basic idea how a war works? War is war. The goals of war are evident, ofcourse there will be landgrab in war. How do you wage a war while leaving your enemy's territories untouched and the resources in those terittories at their disposal to use against you?? The Klingons are not your family, they are an alien species with an Empire of their own, they don't need to show mercy or understanding.
Was it only about landgrab? 'Surface Tension' says no, because J'mpok agreed to the new accord without any territorial gains just because the Federation woke up, admited being wrong and apologized.
Why would the Empire agree to a cease fire now if it all was about conquest of Federation systems like you claim? You guys need to accept the fact that the 'white knights' of Star Trek can also ocassionaly be wrong and mess up.
the federation haven't been white knights since late TNG when they tried to forcibly relocate a planet's population, but the klingons never were to begin with - BOTH factions are seriously flawed
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
True, but that doesn't negate the reasons I mentioned before that led to such deteriment of the Federation - KDF relations. By the time this happened, all they needed was a spark to point out as the reason for engaging in hostilities.
I wouldn't say flawed, I'd say real. Noone is perfect. Noone can be perfect all of the time.
I never said the Klingons are the 'white knights'. Klingons are just Klingons, what bugs me is when people acuse the Klingons for behaving like...well, a Klingon while at the same time those same people try to justify everything wrong the Federation does because they can't accept that their favourite faction in Star Trek can have flaws as well.