I did not say the Kitbashes were off limits. I said they were unlikely.
As I said above, Cryptic's focus seems to be on ships that all 3 Factions can use rather then on specific Faction ships. That way all 3 Factions benefit from a Hirogen ship, or Undine ship, or whatever.
Business wise, this is cheaper.
Plus their faction specific ships they tend to release more directly via the C-Store than random chance like lock boxes.
Plus their faction specific ships they tend to release more directly via the C-Store than random chance like lock boxes.
It is not even just cheaper. Geko stated in his Dec or Jan podcast that the KDF Faction has not really increased in size that much since LoR. This means that, financially, there is still not a huge incentive for Cryptic to make KDF items over putting the same effort into Fed items. To some real extent these Lockbox and Lobi Store items are the only real way of getting new material to the KDF regularly - and possibly even Rom players.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It is not even just cheaper. Geko stated in his Dec or Jan podcast that the KDF Faction has not really increased in size that much since LoR. This means that, financially, there is still not a huge incentive for Cryptic to make KDF items over putting the same effort into Fed items. To some real extent these Lockbox and Lobi Store items are the only real way of getting new material to the KDF regularly - and possibly even Rom players.
They could always add more Orion/Gorn/Nausicaan ships if they didn't want to deny the KDF their share of ships. That would add five new shuttlesalone. the KDF falling behind if they take some time to add some more canon ships shouldn't really be an issue IMO-they could easily add more KDF ships any time they want for virtually no work.
They could always add more Orion/Gorn/Nausicaan ships if they didn't want to deny the KDF their share of ships. That would add five new shuttlesalone. the KDF falling behind if they take some time to add some more canon ships shouldn't really be an issue IMO-they could easily add more KDF ships any time they want for virtually no work.
I do not presume to know how much work is involved. I am not a programmer or an artist. You are probably not either.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I do not presume to know how much work is involved. I am not a programmer or an artist. You are probably not either.
I know something about working with 3d meshes and textures-don't presume it is *much* easier to work with an existing model/texture etc like Cryptic already has with the NPC ships than to work from scratch.
I know something about working with 3d meshes and textures-don't presume it is *much* easier to work with an existing model/texture etc like Cryptic already has with the NPC ships than to work from scratch.
Just the concept art stage is removed from adding canon ships compared to Cryptic creations. I seriously doubt that Cryptic has the files that TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise used to import the ships into STO and even if they did, then they are not the right format.
Just the concept art stage is removed from adding canon ships compared to Cryptic creations. I seriously doubt that Cryptic has the files that TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise used to import the ships into STO and even if they did, then they are not the right format.
I was talking about the NPC gorn/nausicaan/orion ships in that post.
If memory serves, the Centaur was originally a kitbash by throwing a couple nacelles onto an Excelsior saucer. I wouldn't mind seeing one of the more interesting designs like the Springfield Class or the Proto-Nebula. Granted, they didn't have much screen time since they were wrecks at Wolf-359
In my opinion, STO is not consistent in the IPs continuity and characteization. It's not even consistent within it's OWN lore Plus I think I'm just tired of that "I'm the biggest soldier boy around her" mentality.
Peregrines are "attack fighters", a term which is shared with the Jem'Hadar craft that are roughly Defiant Class sized, not Starfighters which are sub-warp craft found in other IPs.
But I don't want to explain anything here since it's off-topic and like I said has been discussed literaly dozens of times already
STO named the Peregrine Class as the Federation attack fighter that was shown on DS9. It was referred to as attack fighter many times on the show. Jem'Hadar was called attack ship or fighter or patrol ship.
Back ot topic, whether Geko likes them or not, there are kitbashes in STO (Centaur, Cheyenne, Galaxy-X, and pretty much any player ship that uses parts from other ships) and if fans are putting a want for the ship, as a member of the team that supplies the product, he should give it despite his personal objections, like the Ambassador, where he said he didn't like it and looked too much like the Galaxy (his opinion).
Besides, this would give Cryptic an opportunity to update the Wolf 359 map and to give us another mission, such as showing a recreation of the Battle of Wolf 359. The KDF and Romulans both have their own as shown in pieces on screen (VOY Unity) and they have all the ships to recreate them.
Geko is probably one of the biggest Trek fans at Cryptic. I mean, now many people get married on the bridge of the Enterprise? But that does not mean everyone gets everything they want just by screaming "canon" over and over. Most of the ships asked for have less then 30 seconds of screen time to their careers. They're not that important to canon.
And most of Cryptic's focus seems to be on alien ships that are usable by all Factions, which is a good thing else the Feds would be the only ones getting anything.
Just because some random person says he is a fan, dosen't mean that he is...
If he dosen't like kitbashes shown on screen, then he disregards official canon... Wich pretty much makes him a anti-fan in my eyes...
Also, I am pretty sure he is more interested in squeezing as much money off STO into his pocket than actually having an interest in Star Trek.
As to the marriage on the bridge: Some people will do anything to make their lie creditble.
He is a PR suckup... Nothing more, nothing less.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Just because some random person says he is a fan, dosen't mean that he is...
If he dosen't like kitbashes shown on screen, then he disregards official canon... Wich pretty much makes him a anti-fan in my eyes...
By that statement you are saying that every person who does not like everything in canon is a anti-fan. So the people who do not like the Enterprise series are anti-fans. The people who do not like Voyager series are anti-fans. The people who do not like the Galaxy Class are anti-fans, etc.
It is possible to like a LOT of Trek without liking it all, canon or not.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Perhaps he is a 'true' trek fan, perhaps not. That's not for us to decide IMO. I do however think that his love of trek, real or professed, seems to take a backseat compared to the push for monetization etc. Hence the Romulan faction, undine lockboxes, etc-stuff like that. Which makes the resistance to including some more kitbashes rather baffling IMO. The Constellation specifically would be a great hit, I imagine.
Perhaps he is a 'true' trek fan, perhaps not. That's not for us to decide IMO. I do however think that his love of trek, real or professed, seems to take a backseat compared to the push for monetization etc. Hence the Romulan faction, undine lockboxes, etc-stuff like that. Which makes the resistance to including some more kitbashes rather baffling IMO. The Constellation specifically would be a great hit, I imagine.
I have no problem with Cryptic being about making money. When I ran my business it was about making money. Where ever you work, you are doing it for the money, as is the company you work for. Everyone does everything for money.
I find it strange how many people on gaming forums want to believe that the games they play are done for charity; as if the Devs do it just for the fun of creating it rather then for pay. The Devs just show up, create something, and then go home without any thought to making a living.
Money is not evil. Everyone wanting a good job, vacations, a family, good schools for their children, etc. That is not evil. It is what we all want.
And we know the Constellation is coming.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I have no problem with Cryptic being about making money. When I ran my business it was about making money. Where ever you work, you are doing it for the money, as is the company you work for. Everyone does everything for money.
I find it strange how many people on gaming forums want to believe that the games they play are done for charity; as if the Devs do it just for the fun of creating it rather then for pay. The Devs just show up, create something, and then go home without any thought to making a living.
Money is not evil. Everyone wanting a good job, vacations, a family, good schools for their children, etc. That is not evil. It is what we all want.
And we know the Constellation is coming.
Missing my point again. If Money is the bottom line here, then why not have more kitbashes in the game? It would be one of the less controversial moves Cryptic has made by comparison, and I know plenty of people would jump on the ability to buy a Norway or Constellation class, so why not?
I'll be honest, the Constellation-class is the last ship (sans Miranda variants) I ever wanted from the TV Series to appear in STO. Once that is done, my collection of ships based on the ST:TMP ship design aesthetic would be complete.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Missing my point again. If Money is the bottom line here, then why not have more kitbashes in the game? It would be one of the less controversial moves Cryptic has made by comparison, and I know plenty of people would jump on the ability to buy a Norway or Constellation class, so why not?
I will say it for the 3rd time now...
Lockbox and Lobi ships and items benefit all 3 Factions at once. Making Fed ships only benefits the Federation players - and ticks-off the KDF and Rom players. It is not like every time a new Fed item is added to the game the thread in the News section is not bombarded with people complaining about how the KDF get nothing.
If you are going to put in X amount of effort into making something you might as well benefit as many people as possible - as well as benefiting yourself.
And again, we know the Constellation is coming. We have already seen part of it in the game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I'll be honest, the Constellation-class is the last ship (sans Miranda variants) I ever wanted from the TV Series to appear in STO. Once that is done, my collection of ships based on the ST:TMP ship design aesthetic would be complete.
Can't wait for it to show up...whenever that happens, anyways. Probably the only TOS-era ship that could conceivably appear as a flight-deck cruiser to boot.
Crytpic is definitely dragging its feet on bringing it out though, which doesn't bode well for other kitbashes. (and the Constellation was one of the best)
Crytpic is definitely dragging its feet on bringing it out though, which doesn't bode well for other kitbashes. (and the Constellation was one of the best)
Do you want it done fast or do you want it done right?
Lockbox and Lobi ships and items benefit all 3 Factions at once. Making Fed ships only benefits the Federation players - and ticks-off the KDF and Rom players. It is not like every time a new Fed item is added to the game the thread in the News section is not bombarded with people complaining about how the KDF get nothing.
If you are going to put in X amount of effort into making something you might as well benefit as many people as possible - as well as benefiting yourself.
And again, we know the Constellation is coming. We have already seen part of it in the game.
And I'll say it again. If they wanted to add a variety of ships to the kdf, they could easily at any point add the gorn, orion, and nausicaan npc ships to the faction. It would be trivial. Add the Norway, add the Syphon Frigate etc.
And I'll say it again. If they wanted to add a variety of ships to the kdf, they could easily at any point add the gorn, orion, and nausicaan npc ships to the faction. It would be trivial. Add the Norway, add the Syphon Frigate etc.
And I'll say it again. If they wanted to add a variety of ships to the kdf, they could easily at any point add the gorn, orion, and nausicaan npc ships to the faction. It would be trivial. Add the Norway, add the Syphon Frigate etc.
Dude, just because you say they can does not mean they can. Just because you state you are knowledgeable about the subject does not mean you are. This is the internet. You could be the President of the US or some 40 year old living in your parent's basement talking out his butt.
Cryptic is not shy on wanting to make money. If it was easy they would be doing it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Crytpic is definitely dragging its feet on bringing it out though, which doesn't bode well for other kitbashes. (and the Constellation was one of the best)
It could be slated for a specific event that they are trying to promote. Or to be released on a specific date in regards to other content. We won't know until it happens. I'm going to guess that part of the work behind the Constellation is trying to justify it being put into the game at this point (via story-line or bundled with other promos).
We did come across the Constellation saucer by accident and the recent Risa outfits we just discovered on Tribble isn't supposed to be known until the Summer event anyway. So considering there is no Dev Blog on the Constellation but we know the saucer part exists... the ship will probably be after S9 if not part of S9.
... Then again there are those MACO assets that people found in the game years ago...
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Dude, just because you say they can does not mean they can. Just because you state you are knowledgeable about the subject does not mean you are. This is the internet. You could be the President of the US or some 40 year old living in your parent's basement talking out his butt.
Cryptic is not shy on wanting to make money. If it was easy they would be doing it.
I don't know how you two think it works, but it is significantly easier to make something from existing assets than from scratch. I have no idea where you two are getting the ludicrous idea that it isn't. They already have the models and textures completed. They already have collision set for them. Weapon firepoints are already set, impulse trails etc as well. 'Physically' the ship is good to go-they'd need to hook some code up to associate console layouts etc with them, but it would not be that difficult to put them out, certainly nowhere near as much work as making ships from scratch. That much should be evident.
You do realize that Trek was, until the end, a LOW BUDGET show and they only had computer modeling for the starships in the last few seasons. The rest of the time they were shooting actual real life ship models and, since the production budget was quite limited, often bought existing model kits off-the-shelf and glued different parts together to make a ship.
At the time of TNG the only major faction ships that had dedicated models were Enterprise, Excelsior, Miranda, BoP, D'Dex and Vor'cha. Everything else was a kitbash.
In the case of Wolf359 they needed to shoot a large debris field, so a lot of spare parts were cobbled together to make wrecks and honestly no thought was really put into making them look or function as actual Federation ships. They were only ever designed as hulks, and that's how it should stay. Notice that they weren't shot in high resolution or given any close-ups either.
On a related topic... to give an idea of just how low budget Trek was, during the filming of TOS there was ONE model of the original Romulan Warbird. It was sculpted out of plaster. One day some ham-handed set assistant dropped the model, shattering it. They didn't have the budget to have another one made and as the Romulan episodes were already scripted there wasn't a lot of room for rewriting.
So, in a piece of brilliant improvisation the decision was made to use the Klingon D7 Battlecruiser but "Romulanize" it with a cloaking device. Now the KDF wouldn't just give the Romulans plans for their battlecruiser, so a trade was made and the KDF got cloaks from the Roms... and there you have it, the modern cloaking Klingon starship was born.
I don't know how you two think it works, but it is significantly easier to make something from existing assets than from scratch. I have no idea where you two are getting the ludicrous idea that it isn't. They already have the models and textures completed. They already have collision set for them. Weapon firepoints are already set, impulse trails etc as well. 'Physically' the ship is good to go-they'd need to hook some code up to associate console layouts etc with them, but it would not be that difficult to put them out, certainly nowhere near as much work as making ships from scratch. That much should be evident.
Models, textures, and hardpoints do not a playable ship make.
thecosmic1 and I have been around for a very long time, so we get our 'ludicrous' idea from the horse's mouth.
Bear in mind that an NPC ship is different from a player ship. NPC ships are typically low-res to take in performance issues into account (this is documented fact because NPC ships get hi-res versions whenever players get a playable version of them).
Geko is not a fan of kitbash ships so I would not expect to see too many of those added to the game.
Geko's stance on the New Orleans in interviews over the course of the last few years seems to have softened. So that one might have a chance someday. The others, I'm not so sure.
Personally the only way I think we'll ever see the ships in game is as a pack deal. Either using Rahmkota's idea of adapting the summer corvette tech where they're all different skins for the same ship that you can't modify outside of selecting which skin to use. Or make it a three pack, where two ships represent the skins (for example say New Orleans and Springfield are the tac leaning ship, Niagara and Proto-Nebula are the eng leaning ship, and Freedom and Challenger are the sci leaning). Lore wise call them Patrol Cruisers, experimental designs that Starfleet created but for one reason or another weren't produced in large quantities, eventually relegated to patrol and transport duties within federation boarders.
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Plus their faction specific ships they tend to release more directly via the C-Store than random chance like lock boxes.
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Just the concept art stage is removed from adding canon ships compared to Cryptic creations. I seriously doubt that Cryptic has the files that TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise used to import the ships into STO and even if they did, then they are not the right format.
STO named the Peregrine Class as the Federation attack fighter that was shown on DS9. It was referred to as attack fighter many times on the show. Jem'Hadar was called attack ship or fighter or patrol ship.
Back ot topic, whether Geko likes them or not, there are kitbashes in STO (Centaur, Cheyenne, Galaxy-X, and pretty much any player ship that uses parts from other ships) and if fans are putting a want for the ship, as a member of the team that supplies the product, he should give it despite his personal objections, like the Ambassador, where he said he didn't like it and looked too much like the Galaxy (his opinion).
Besides, this would give Cryptic an opportunity to update the Wolf 359 map and to give us another mission, such as showing a recreation of the Battle of Wolf 359. The KDF and Romulans both have their own as shown in pieces on screen (VOY Unity) and they have all the ships to recreate them.
Just because some random person says he is a fan, dosen't mean that he is...
If he dosen't like kitbashes shown on screen, then he disregards official canon... Wich pretty much makes him a anti-fan in my eyes...
Also, I am pretty sure he is more interested in squeezing as much money off STO into his pocket than actually having an interest in Star Trek.
As to the marriage on the bridge: Some people will do anything to make their lie creditble.
He is a PR suckup... Nothing more, nothing less.
It is possible to like a LOT of Trek without liking it all, canon or not.
Yeah, well people who see people who don't like certain things about Star Trek as anti-fans are in fact the true anti-fans in my eyes.
Therefore you hate Star Trek and just because you say you don't, that doesn't make it so.
The "No True Scotsman" fallacy is probably the most commonly-invoked on the STO forums, but that doesn't make it any less of a fallacy.
I find it strange how many people on gaming forums want to believe that the games they play are done for charity; as if the Devs do it just for the fun of creating it rather then for pay. The Devs just show up, create something, and then go home without any thought to making a living.
Money is not evil. Everyone wanting a good job, vacations, a family, good schools for their children, etc. That is not evil. It is what we all want.
And we know the Constellation is coming.
(UFP) Ragnar
Lockbox and Lobi ships and items benefit all 3 Factions at once. Making Fed ships only benefits the Federation players - and ticks-off the KDF and Rom players. It is not like every time a new Fed item is added to the game the thread in the News section is not bombarded with people complaining about how the KDF get nothing.
If you are going to put in X amount of effort into making something you might as well benefit as many people as possible - as well as benefiting yourself.
And again, we know the Constellation is coming. We have already seen part of it in the game.
Crytpic is definitely dragging its feet on bringing it out though, which doesn't bode well for other kitbashes. (and the Constellation was one of the best)
Do you want it done fast or do you want it done right?
Saying Cryptic is taking its sweet time. That doesn't mean it would hurt the qualityto speed that up a bit.
Ship creation in STO does not work that way.
Cryptic is not shy on wanting to make money. If it was easy they would be doing it.
It could be slated for a specific event that they are trying to promote. Or to be released on a specific date in regards to other content. We won't know until it happens. I'm going to guess that part of the work behind the Constellation is trying to justify it being put into the game at this point (via story-line or bundled with other promos).
We did come across the Constellation saucer by accident and the recent Risa outfits we just discovered on Tribble isn't supposed to be known until the Summer event anyway. So considering there is no Dev Blog on the Constellation but we know the saucer part exists... the ship will probably be after S9 if not part of S9.
... Then again there are those MACO assets that people found in the game years ago...
(UFP) Ragnar
I don't know how you two think it works, but it is significantly easier to make something from existing assets than from scratch. I have no idea where you two are getting the ludicrous idea that it isn't. They already have the models and textures completed. They already have collision set for them. Weapon firepoints are already set, impulse trails etc as well. 'Physically' the ship is good to go-they'd need to hook some code up to associate console layouts etc with them, but it would not be that difficult to put them out, certainly nowhere near as much work as making ships from scratch. That much should be evident.
You do realize that Trek was, until the end, a LOW BUDGET show and they only had computer modeling for the starships in the last few seasons. The rest of the time they were shooting actual real life ship models and, since the production budget was quite limited, often bought existing model kits off-the-shelf and glued different parts together to make a ship.
At the time of TNG the only major faction ships that had dedicated models were Enterprise, Excelsior, Miranda, BoP, D'Dex and Vor'cha. Everything else was a kitbash.
In the case of Wolf359 they needed to shoot a large debris field, so a lot of spare parts were cobbled together to make wrecks and honestly no thought was really put into making them look or function as actual Federation ships. They were only ever designed as hulks, and that's how it should stay. Notice that they weren't shot in high resolution or given any close-ups either.
On a related topic... to give an idea of just how low budget Trek was, during the filming of TOS there was ONE model of the original Romulan Warbird. It was sculpted out of plaster. One day some ham-handed set assistant dropped the model, shattering it. They didn't have the budget to have another one made and as the Romulan episodes were already scripted there wasn't a lot of room for rewriting.
So, in a piece of brilliant improvisation the decision was made to use the Klingon D7 Battlecruiser but "Romulanize" it with a cloaking device. Now the KDF wouldn't just give the Romulans plans for their battlecruiser, so a trade was made and the KDF got cloaks from the Roms... and there you have it, the modern cloaking Klingon starship was born.
Models, textures, and hardpoints do not a playable ship make.
thecosmic1 and I have been around for a very long time, so we get our 'ludicrous' idea from the horse's mouth.
Bear in mind that an NPC ship is different from a player ship. NPC ships are typically low-res to take in performance issues into account (this is documented fact because NPC ships get hi-res versions whenever players get a playable version of them).
Geko's stance on the New Orleans in interviews over the course of the last few years seems to have softened. So that one might have a chance someday. The others, I'm not so sure.
Personally the only way I think we'll ever see the ships in game is as a pack deal. Either using Rahmkota's idea of adapting the summer corvette tech where they're all different skins for the same ship that you can't modify outside of selecting which skin to use. Or make it a three pack, where two ships represent the skins (for example say New Orleans and Springfield are the tac leaning ship, Niagara and Proto-Nebula are the eng leaning ship, and Freedom and Challenger are the sci leaning). Lore wise call them Patrol Cruisers, experimental designs that Starfleet created but for one reason or another weren't produced in large quantities, eventually relegated to patrol and transport duties within federation boarders.
Here's a better direct link to the Dev Blog about designing ships in STO http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/3030983-dev-blog_-ships-_-from-start-to-finish
This way you can avoid the auto-redirect from the old STO pages.
(UFP) Ragnar