however, what your trying to tell me right now, is that you believe only a certain number of star trek fans would like these ships.. that there is no way any of these would garner any interest from the non trek fans playing the game? cause that's what it sounds like..
You do realize that two-thirds of all your posts are you just complaining about the same things over and over, right? You have made like 5 posts today and they are all grandiose examples of everything you think is wrong with the game. You cannot get a much clearer sign of burnout then that, IMO.
So let me say it one last time, then you can get the last word in and we can both move on: just because something is canon does not mean it is popular or that it will sell.
also, you believe that these ships would take tons of time and money to make.. that is not so.. the return these ships would give them, while maybe not on a scimitar scale, would get them a profit..
This statement is an example of someone who has no business acumen. We have a whole Dev Blog on how much time it takes for them to make a ship from scratch. But more importantly business do not run on the idea of making less money.
Basic concept: If it take 300 man-hours to make a ship from concept to C-Store that is true whether it is a canon design or an original design. Cryptic's goal for those 300 man-hours is to make the most money they can make, not to make the most canon Trek material they can make. Cryptic is doing this for money. If they have a choice of selling 20,000 ships or 10,000 ships they are going to choose the 20,000 every time - even if said ship is not canon. That is just common business sense.
You might be an uber Trek fan who only wants canon ships but most of the players are not uber Trek fans. Most of the players just want ships they think are cool to use - which is why Lockbox Keys get sold. And what is cool to use is entirely subjective to the individual.
This has nothing to do with what ships you like or what ships I like. This is entirely about the number of ships Cryptic can make per year and the amount of money they think they can make off of those man-hours. It is Cryptic's belief that 30-second kitbash ships will not sell enough to justify the man-hours used making them - and they have the sales data from dozens of ships to back up their ideas. You, on the other hand, have nothing more then "I want" on your side.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
You do realize that two-thirds of all your posts are you just complaining about the same things over and over, right? You have made like 5 posts today and they are all grandiose examples of everything you think is wrong with the game. You cannot get a much clearer sign of burnout then that, IMO.
So let me say it one last time, then you can get the last word in and we can both move on: just because something is canon does not mean it is popular or that it will sell.
This statement is an example of someone who has no business acumen. We have a whole Dev Blog on how much time it takes for them to make a ship from scratch. But more importantly business do not run on the idea of making less money.
Basic concept: If it take 300 man-hours to make a ship from concept to C-Store that is true whether it is a canon design or an original design. Cryptic's goal for those 300 man-hours is to make the most money they can make, not to make the most canon Trek material they can make. Cryptic is doing this for money. If they have a choice of selling 20,000 ships or 5,000 ships they are going to choose the 20,000 every time - even if said ship is not canon. That is just common business sense.
You might be an uber Trek fan who only wants canon ships but most of the players are not uber Trek fans. Most of the players just want ships they think are cool to use - which is why Lockbox Keys get sold. And what is cool to use is entirely subjective to the individual.
This has nothing to do with what ships you like or what ships I like. This is entirely about the number of ships Cryptic can make per year and the amount of money they think they can make off of those man-hours. It is Cryptic's belief that 30-second kitbash ships will not sell enough to justify the man-hours used making them - and they have the sales data from dozens of ships to back up their ideas.
so tell me, how do they justify a ship like the risan corvette.. or any other cryptic design.. 90 percent of the time, its not the ship that sells, its the features.. to be honest, cryptic probably has no clue weather it will do well or not.. cause the last time they sold a ship for what that ship was was a long time ago.. sure, some people buy the scimitar cause its a simitar.. but I bet more people buy it cause its the most powerfull ship in the game.. or the new ugly dyson ship.. I think less people bought them cause they thought they were nice, and more people got them cause they were the only viable sci ship for the type of game play cryptic promotes.. (damage). half the lock box ships are not gambled on because of the ship, but more for the consoles..
its all in how you market them.. like I said, I think a compromise of making these ships skins for something else could work..
listen, im not trying to be the last word guy.. this is a slightly unhealthy debate.. we are both getting emotional about it, and I want you to know there is no hard feelings.. just sometimes, you gots to know when to hold them and when to fold them.. if you come into a thread, that is made to talk about these ships, and you start telling people who are looking forward to possibly seeing them, that you don't think they will, great.. say it and leave. don't be condescending, and don't play games..
for some reason, your less about talking about the popularity of these ships, and the fact that they do have a fallowing. coupled on top of that that no one knows what the non trek player base thinks of them, its a gamble, for sure, but its a gamble, that even if it doesn't pay off in green, it pays off in getting something that a portion of the player base wanted to see ingame..
you say I have no business sense, well I grew up in a family that has a business (welding shop). I am a musician. when im not teaching music, im generally getting gigs and making money that way. sometimes I play gigs for free. not cause I don't like getting paid, but because sometimes you have to spend a buck, to make a buck..
sometimes my dad does a weld job for nothing, or goes above and beyond to please his customer.. and in return, he usually sees more business.
I think cryptic needs to make a push to bring more canon into the game. to possibly bring back lost players.. they have said this in dev blogs and on the forums. they are aware they lost a big portion of the trek fanbase.. it is one of the reasons for them trying to make the starbase more "trek"
I also believe this is why we are getting a constellation class.
im not saying they have to rewrite stuff, or change how things are working, but just adding some canon content here and there would be a nice change of pace..
but over the last few years, we have gotten countless cryptic designs (not including romulans, that's a whole different story). but I think doing a quick stint of canon ships, would be great..
definatly, the niagra, the new Orleans, and the springfield on fed side.
maybe the voodeh, and k'vort for klinks
and im pretty sure all the romulan ships are ingame.. lol.. so whatever for them..
like I said, I think if those ships were made, it would make them money.. the juice would be worth the squeeze, and weight would be lifted off the forums in terms of these ships..
as far as my not thinking im burnt out.. I am and im not.. im currently playing as we type this.. I have found other ways to keep myself occupied ingame.. hoping for the time that they release something that is worthwhile.. lol.. I only log on for about an hour a day, just to do my reps.. but that is it.. like I said, im jaded, but not real angry at the moment.. a year back, I was catching everything on fire in here.. I was so pissed, so I walked away..
don't mistake passion for being angry.. when I site things I think cryptic is doing wrong, im simply trying to show you that I do not think they have a firm grasp on the business end of things as you think they do.. lol.. I honestly think the last few years have been a TRIBBLE shoot for them, and its been paying off enough that they think they know what they are doing..
but in fallowing the story line, and the inconsistency in how they release, present, and talk about the content, it shows me they do not.. so I don't think making these ships or not is a business decision, I think it is more or less geko keeping the wrapping paper on these guys.. lol..
it was cute the way you put the last word thing in there. basically making me the di*k for responding lol.. oh well, most people on here think im one anyways, so I don't care..
cosmic, a lot of times I do side with you, or respect what you have to say.. but at times, you can be real condescending, dismissive of other peoples ideas and thoughts, and generally a know it all. like your trying to psyche evaluate me, let me do the same for you lol... sometimes, you need to learn when to hold them, and when to fold them.. and you say my argument was the same the whole time.. well brotha, yours was too hahaha.. we both basically said the same thing over and over again..
usually, when I see an argument not going in my favor, or that the other person just isn't getting what im trying to say, I usually just stop and I wont even open the thread again,. (as I don't want to get into a TRIBBLE and moan match lol.) but like I said, im real passionate about this topic, no way I was gonna let it go hahaha.
you say I have no business sense, well I grew up in a family that has a business (welding shop). I am a musician. when im not teaching music, im generally getting gigs and making money that way. sometimes I play gigs for free. not cause I don't like getting paid, but because sometimes you have to spend a buck, to make a buck..
sometimes my dad does a weld job for nothing, or goes above and beyond to please his customer.. and in return, he usually sees more business.
I grew up in a family that had its own business too. Then I want to Northwestern and earned a Bachelors degree in business. Then I went to Kellogg and received my MBA. Then I went out into the world and started my own business; and I built that business up to 124 employees. Then I sold that business and retired.
I will happily compare my business knowledge to yours and your father's any day of the week.
I think cryptic needs to make a push to bring more canon into the game. to possibly bring back lost players.. they have said this in dev blogs and on the forums. they are aware they lost a big portion of the trek fanbase.. it is one of the reasons for them trying to make the starbase more "trek"
I also believe this is why we are getting a constellation class.
Dude, be happy to make your point but do not make up lies. Every Dev statement has stated the game is doing fine and that they have more players now then they have ever had. They have never stated they lost Trek players in a blog or on the forum or that this game is not doing well - well, not since the game has gone FTP. What happened before PW's purchase 3 years ago does not matter today.
im not saying they have to rewrite stuff, or change how things are working, but just adding some canon content here and there would be a nice change of pace..
but over the last few years, we have gotten countless cryptic designs (not including romulans, that's a whole different story). but I think doing a quick stint of canon ships, would be great..
The game has far more canon content then you seem to want to admit to. The game is full of canon ships. You are simply hung up on a handful of ships that are extremely obscure to the canon. Some ship that is wreckage at Wolf 359 or some ship seen for 30 seconds in First Contact 18 years ago is not a major canon issue. It is a drop in the ocean of canon.
Every canon ship that has seen any real screen time is either already in the game or soon to be - such as the Constellation. If a ship is important to canon it should be in the game, but a ship that was nothing but a floating pile of wreckage is not important to canon. Heck, many of these kitback ships did not even have names until a non-canon source gave them names. That is how unimportant they were to Trek's canon even in the various series.
I am glad you are passionate about wanting these kitbash ships, but 30 people wanting them does not justify them spending the time to make them.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
no lies.. they have said they know they lost trekkers.. ive read it here with my own two eyes..
I wasn't trying to "compare" my business knowledge with yours.. I was simply stating that I do quite well in ithe business field.. and that I have a better understanding of it than you might think...
congrats that you were so successful.. however, your tirade of why your better than me showed me why It is a waste of time to go toe to toe with you, and why your condescending, dismissive, and why you think you know better than everyone else..
my last post, I had a big mean thing written out. I decided to erase the whole thing, and try to let bygons be bygons.. I was trying to put out the friendly gesture and say, im done.. this is how I feel, and what not..
I wasn't expecting to get slapped in the face after that one.. lol..
I do not lie.. it is something I don't do. everyone who knows me knows ill admit when im wrong, and that sometimes, even when it was better to lie, I will face the truth and take the heat for it.. I am not lieing when I say that several devs have been known to say that there were more star trek fans pre f2p, and that after f2p more general sci fi fans joined.. when they first started talking about reworking esd, I remember reading one of the devs statements that they had to make an attempt to get the people who had left.
even before stahl left, he had done an interview where they had talked about the player base, and how a bulk of the trek fans left, and that they now had people who cared less about trek and more about sci fi in general.. and that he wanted to find a balance in trying to keep the ladder entertained, while trying to bring the former back..
im pretty sure taco said something along these lines as well..
again I do not lie. it serves no end on this forum, considering all you have to do is a little research, and boom. the info is there..
so I get it. your mr ceo, you know more than everyone here, you win.. do what you want with it.. I don't care. ill rethink weather I like the ships or not while im at it, cause your opinion is right, so I must be wrong.. anything else you wish to change my mind about or think I should do?
I'd say for all of these ships, take the Corvette approach:
Make 1 ship, with 1 console, that can have differnt costumes. Costumes that cannot be kitbashed further, Give it at least a Lt Cmd Universal and we're done. Everybody can fly their Wolf 359 ship with the skin they want, and with liberty in how to fly it.
In fact, give it a console with a 10 minute recharge rate that changes turn rate and and shield mod. Basically to give you a range of Destroyer to Cruiser concerning stats. As long as it keeps its console and weapon slots.
It really could be a 2-in-1 approach we saw with the Dysies, and would work pretty well imo.
if it were the Corvette approach, it would not be kitbashed. it would be very sleek, and definitely overpowered. and then the second one would be even more overpowered and the third one OMFG it's over powered (assuming you ARE referring to the car)
we don't need any more kitbashes. we need precisely two things on the fed side: a actual honest to goodness Starfleet fleet (redundancy required) carrier, and the frigate class pet to go with it.
we need at a minimum of:
1. naussican Orion and gorn flyable escorts and battle cruisers, and all four major KDF races need a modern science design.
and as a I really want to own one, a stinking K'vort.
the roms need a good science ship as well.
no flyable undine no 120 year old kitbashes, no "oh, we saw these guys in the worst two of the star trek series in 3 episodes so we will center a whole dang season about them and make ships that are overpowered"
In my opinion, STO is not consistent in the IPs continuity and characteization. It's not even consistent within it's OWN lore Plus I think I'm just tired of that "I'm the biggest soldier boy around her" mentality.
Peregrines are "attack fighters", a term which is shared with the Jem'Hadar craft that are roughly Defiant Class sized, not Starfighters which are sub-warp craft found in other IPs.
But I don't want to explain anything here since it's off-topic and like I said has been discussed literaly dozens of times already
Here is what it boils down to, Geko doesnt like it, it doesnt get added or if it does it doesnt get fair treatment, aka Galaxy R. He needs to seperate out his own feelings on the issue and do what a good dev should.
I personally am not a fan of TOS i was raised watching TNG. That said, while I have no deep attachment to the Connie, OTHERS DO. People should be able to fly and compete at endgame with any ship from their faction. Why? Cause its options, more diversity the better. The fleet ship system was a step in the right direction, but Boff seating is still a hinderance.
I can personally hate a canon ship design all I want, but as a player/dev while "I" might never fly that ugly hunk of scrap metal, some players might love and adore it, and THEY are who you make the game for. Telling people what they can or can not fly, what they can or can not do aka time gated is bad move.
Games are meant to be enjoyed, played the way you like, when you like, how you like. Honestly cryptic has hit a wall with boff slots, the last 3 pack showed it when they had to add transforming boff slots to come up with something different. Time to scrap the locked boff layout system and start over. Maybe then those who love the connie/kitbash can get their ships to play/compete.
Its as simple as making all stations uni, who cares if someone uses all tac stations that guy will get dusted with no heals and overlapping cooldowns. Who cares if a cruiser has Cmd tac, he loses a ton of survivablity for it. Boff abilitys are balanced that way, we dont need locked stations to maintain it when we are limited to so many boff abilities per ship.
Make the console layout/boff stations modable, I dont care if a T5 connie has cmd tac and 5 tac consoles, he can come out swinging and go down hard like any other ship loaded like that. Set it where we have set number of consoles per ship, aka 10 for fleet, make it where you can have only 5 max of any 1 type like current. We now have same 12 boff power limit, same console limit, same game balance as before, but we can choose what we want our ship to do. Ships still have all their health, speed, turnrate, etc etc to make them unique aka cruiser escort etc.
Cryptic can sell new ship/skins, access to new boff abilites, etc etc tons of diff and new ways to make money. Its a win for us all.
except it's not the Devs, it's CBS that said no. that argument is over said and done
So who is the many in this situation? The guy who wants more Ferengi stuff? The guy who wants playable Borg? The guy who wants a T5 Connie? The guy who wants barrel-rolls for Escorts? The guy who wants skants? The guy who wants Jem Bugs to be sold in the Lobi Store? The guy who wants...
actually, it's Jem bug PETS that we want. I could care less about the escort
no flyable undine no 120 year old kitbashes, no "oh, we saw these guys in the worst two of the star trek series in 3 episodes so we will center a whole dang season about them and make ships that are overpowered"
I kind of what to point something out here because I think very few people playing STO really understand this: the Undine were always supposed to be a big deal in this game. The novel, The Needs of the Many, that came with the launch of STO was a history of the Undine War written by Jake Sisko 15 years after the time this game was set in. The Undine were always supposed to be major players in the game. They were never treated as some one-off species from Voyager.
It is a little sad that we are 4 years into the game and Cryptic has finally gotten to a place where they can finally start really hitting the Undine story hard, but this was always the intention of the game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
actually, it's Jem bug PETS that we want. I could care less about the escort
The fact that you have little interest in the Bug has no bearing on the idea that there are thousands of players who would give anything to get their hands on - including half-a-billion EC that it is currently going for.
And just as an FYI, at the time I made the post you quoted every one of those "wants" was being asked for in a thread on the first page of the General forum. That is why I choose those examples: to show how fractured the fan-base is on the things that they want Cryptic to drop everything and add to the game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Oh my. A lot of tl'dr posts here now. I don't even know if this thread is still on-topic or not.
How much less could you care...?
yeah I apologize about that..
but I still think we should get these ships as at the very least skins..
that being said, I don't care what the other factions get.. are we not in the federation ship yards.. if you want Klingon vessels, lobby for them in the klink ship yard.. lol...
but I still think we should get these ships as at the very least skins..
I think that would be the key to a good compromise. Cryptic makes ships that are kinda-sorta shaped like the 359 kitbashes, but with updates 2409 designs, but offers the 359 kitbashes as alternate skins.
I think that would be the key to a good compromise. Cryptic makes ships that are kinda-sorta shaped like the 359 kitbashes, but with updates 2409 designs, but offers the 359 kitbashes as alternate skins.
I personally enjoy canon ships a lot more then cryptics designs. I thought the regent skin for the assault cruiser was TRIBBLE and I thought the avenger looked like a space duck. Only new ship that is decent looking is the Odyssey and it wasn't designed by cryptic but was designed by a star trek fan...go figure. Anyway, I would purchase all these ships, either individually or via some kind of pack. Provided that some of them have decent boff and console layouts of course.
Whether you like those designs or not, it doesnt matter what matters is the choice to have these would be good.
You don't like you don't buy/use, if you do your happy and the devs gets your money.
All winners......
Problem is, as pointed out, if enough people are not going to buy them it's not worth their time to develop them over some other design that will sell more.
What you really need if you want them is to show that there's enough people willing to spend money to get these that it's worth their time to make them over something else. And this thread doesn't really do that.
Problem is, as pointed out, if enough people are not going to buy them it's not worth their time to develop them over some other design that will sell more.
What you really need if you want them is to show that there's enough people willing to spend money to get these that it's worth their time to make them over something else. And this thread doesn't really do that.
And the devs always listen to the forums and what they want, just look at how they gave us all the dread we wanted....:(
So what you think more people want to fly Star Trek styled ships or B5 Vorlon lock offs,...
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
And the devs always listen to the forums and what they want, just look at how they gave us all the dread we wanted....:(
So what you think more people want to fly Star Trek styled ships or B5 Vorlon lock offs,...
They read the forums, but if they see something wrong with what we want that we don't see, they do not give it to us.
The Dreadnought some people on this forum wanted is an appeal to the underlying imbalances of the game that the devs are striving to correct. A lot of people around here can't see that.
In the end it all comes down to consoles and set bonuses and stuff.
It's not like anyone who isn't a Trek fan would have heard of the Vesta, but it still sold pretty well. I'm willing to bet it wouldn't have sold any less if one of its variants had looked like the Springfield or something.
Admittedly, I'd love to try flying it. But I can't imagine it would anything more than a T3 Heavy Cruiser ship within STO. (Why? The warp nacelles, as one example.)
Oikay here's some simple things. One Fed will always have more ships because the experiment more. Most of the other races are in the IF it ain't broke don't fix it category. But a good what to solve this for cryptic is the minor races. For Klingon, YES KVORT. But then the bulk of the orion and Nausican ships could be options. Rom. TALON class and the hirogen ships.
If they have a TOS connie as a zen ship why not the Constellation which of note Stargazer was supposed to be a connie at first but it was changed later. So totally viable. For the kitbashes. many off them are so better then cryptic designs. Notice which fed ships are played the most. it's cannon fed ships. Regent, puke city. and Avenger please. NEW ORLEANS should have been the battle Cruiser not that POC. I specific refuse to buy it because of it. and that's what the devs need to see. they get an idea for a ship type in game. go to the cannon ships first before masking your own. heck the Curry is another example. Make a the curry a Fed flight deck cruiser.At this point in time i have no faith in the ship designers in Cryptic. the ships they make get uglier and uglier. go cannon for find fan based ships to use.
Oikay here's some simple things. One Fed will always have more ships because the experiment more. Most of the other races are in the IF it ain't broke don't fix it category. But a good what to solve this for cryptic is the minor races. For Klingon, YES KVORT. But then the bulk of the orion and Nausican ships could be options. Rom. TALON class and the hirogen ships.
If they have a TOS connie as a zen ship why not the Constellation which of note Stargazer was supposed to be a connie at first but it was changed later. So totally viable. For the kitbashes. many off them are so better then cryptic designs. Notice which fed ships are played the most. it's cannon fed ships. Regent, puke city. and Avenger please. NEW ORLEANS should have been the battle Cruiser not that POC. I specific refuse to buy it because of it. and that's what the devs need to see. they get an idea for a ship type in game. go to the cannon ships first before masking your own. heck the Curry is another example. Make a the curry a Fed flight deck cruiser.At this point in time i have no faith in the ship designers in Cryptic. the ships they make get uglier and uglier. go cannon for find fan based ships to use.
The K'Vort could easily, EASILY be an alt skin for the Hegh'ta, since the Heavy BoP I think is around the correct size. The Stargazer is rumored to be released around June 10th(Captain Picard Day)
The K'Vort could easily, EASILY be an alt skin for the Hegh'ta, since the Heavy BoP I think is around the correct size. The Stargazer is rumored to be released around June 10th(Captain Picard Day)
I would get the Avenger. IF it had a New orleans skin
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
They read the forums, but if they see something wrong with what we want that we don't see, they do not give it to us.
The Dreadnought some people on this forum wanted is an appeal to the underlying imbalances of the game that the devs are striving to correct. A lot of people around here can't see that.
how are they striving to fix imbalance when they keep releasing ships like the avenger and scimitar. but decide to take a ship that in canon would wipe the floor with those two ships, and make it such a meh build lol..
I agree, they have their reasons for not doing or doing something, but please, do not bring up balance. cryptic has absolutely no idea what that word means.. nor do they care, it is how they sell stuff.
however, if you are a company, and you wish to make a game about star trek, it is a no brainer that you should probably include the ships from the show. not saying they have to stop everything and make them all happen now. but, they should have a plan to release all the canon ships from the tng era on. like we said, they can make their own cryptic designs as additional skins. and no one is saying they have to be cutting edge either. not every ship has to be launched with a special console and power.
Comments
So let me say it one last time, then you can get the last word in and we can both move on: just because something is canon does not mean it is popular or that it will sell.
This statement is an example of someone who has no business acumen. We have a whole Dev Blog on how much time it takes for them to make a ship from scratch. But more importantly business do not run on the idea of making less money.
Basic concept: If it take 300 man-hours to make a ship from concept to C-Store that is true whether it is a canon design or an original design. Cryptic's goal for those 300 man-hours is to make the most money they can make, not to make the most canon Trek material they can make. Cryptic is doing this for money. If they have a choice of selling 20,000 ships or 10,000 ships they are going to choose the 20,000 every time - even if said ship is not canon. That is just common business sense.
You might be an uber Trek fan who only wants canon ships but most of the players are not uber Trek fans. Most of the players just want ships they think are cool to use - which is why Lockbox Keys get sold. And what is cool to use is entirely subjective to the individual.
This has nothing to do with what ships you like or what ships I like. This is entirely about the number of ships Cryptic can make per year and the amount of money they think they can make off of those man-hours. It is Cryptic's belief that 30-second kitbash ships will not sell enough to justify the man-hours used making them - and they have the sales data from dozens of ships to back up their ideas. You, on the other hand, have nothing more then "I want" on your side.
so tell me, how do they justify a ship like the risan corvette.. or any other cryptic design.. 90 percent of the time, its not the ship that sells, its the features.. to be honest, cryptic probably has no clue weather it will do well or not.. cause the last time they sold a ship for what that ship was was a long time ago.. sure, some people buy the scimitar cause its a simitar.. but I bet more people buy it cause its the most powerfull ship in the game.. or the new ugly dyson ship.. I think less people bought them cause they thought they were nice, and more people got them cause they were the only viable sci ship for the type of game play cryptic promotes.. (damage). half the lock box ships are not gambled on because of the ship, but more for the consoles..
its all in how you market them.. like I said, I think a compromise of making these ships skins for something else could work..
listen, im not trying to be the last word guy.. this is a slightly unhealthy debate.. we are both getting emotional about it, and I want you to know there is no hard feelings.. just sometimes, you gots to know when to hold them and when to fold them.. if you come into a thread, that is made to talk about these ships, and you start telling people who are looking forward to possibly seeing them, that you don't think they will, great.. say it and leave. don't be condescending, and don't play games..
for some reason, your less about talking about the popularity of these ships, and the fact that they do have a fallowing. coupled on top of that that no one knows what the non trek player base thinks of them, its a gamble, for sure, but its a gamble, that even if it doesn't pay off in green, it pays off in getting something that a portion of the player base wanted to see ingame..
you say I have no business sense, well I grew up in a family that has a business (welding shop). I am a musician. when im not teaching music, im generally getting gigs and making money that way. sometimes I play gigs for free. not cause I don't like getting paid, but because sometimes you have to spend a buck, to make a buck..
sometimes my dad does a weld job for nothing, or goes above and beyond to please his customer.. and in return, he usually sees more business.
I think cryptic needs to make a push to bring more canon into the game. to possibly bring back lost players.. they have said this in dev blogs and on the forums. they are aware they lost a big portion of the trek fanbase.. it is one of the reasons for them trying to make the starbase more "trek"
I also believe this is why we are getting a constellation class.
im not saying they have to rewrite stuff, or change how things are working, but just adding some canon content here and there would be a nice change of pace..
but over the last few years, we have gotten countless cryptic designs (not including romulans, that's a whole different story). but I think doing a quick stint of canon ships, would be great..
definatly, the niagra, the new Orleans, and the springfield on fed side.
maybe the voodeh, and k'vort for klinks
and im pretty sure all the romulan ships are ingame.. lol.. so whatever for them..
like I said, I think if those ships were made, it would make them money.. the juice would be worth the squeeze, and weight would be lifted off the forums in terms of these ships..
as far as my not thinking im burnt out.. I am and im not.. im currently playing as we type this.. I have found other ways to keep myself occupied ingame.. hoping for the time that they release something that is worthwhile.. lol.. I only log on for about an hour a day, just to do my reps.. but that is it.. like I said, im jaded, but not real angry at the moment.. a year back, I was catching everything on fire in here.. I was so pissed, so I walked away..
don't mistake passion for being angry.. when I site things I think cryptic is doing wrong, im simply trying to show you that I do not think they have a firm grasp on the business end of things as you think they do.. lol.. I honestly think the last few years have been a TRIBBLE shoot for them, and its been paying off enough that they think they know what they are doing..
but in fallowing the story line, and the inconsistency in how they release, present, and talk about the content, it shows me they do not.. so I don't think making these ships or not is a business decision, I think it is more or less geko keeping the wrapping paper on these guys.. lol..
it was cute the way you put the last word thing in there. basically making me the di*k for responding lol.. oh well, most people on here think im one anyways, so I don't care..
cosmic, a lot of times I do side with you, or respect what you have to say.. but at times, you can be real condescending, dismissive of other peoples ideas and thoughts, and generally a know it all. like your trying to psyche evaluate me, let me do the same for you lol... sometimes, you need to learn when to hold them, and when to fold them.. and you say my argument was the same the whole time.. well brotha, yours was too hahaha.. we both basically said the same thing over and over again..
usually, when I see an argument not going in my favor, or that the other person just isn't getting what im trying to say, I usually just stop and I wont even open the thread again,. (as I don't want to get into a TRIBBLE and moan match lol.) but like I said, im real passionate about this topic, no way I was gonna let it go hahaha.
I will happily compare my business knowledge to yours and your father's any day of the week.
Dude, be happy to make your point but do not make up lies. Every Dev statement has stated the game is doing fine and that they have more players now then they have ever had. They have never stated they lost Trek players in a blog or on the forum or that this game is not doing well - well, not since the game has gone FTP. What happened before PW's purchase 3 years ago does not matter today.
The game has far more canon content then you seem to want to admit to. The game is full of canon ships. You are simply hung up on a handful of ships that are extremely obscure to the canon. Some ship that is wreckage at Wolf 359 or some ship seen for 30 seconds in First Contact 18 years ago is not a major canon issue. It is a drop in the ocean of canon.
Every canon ship that has seen any real screen time is either already in the game or soon to be - such as the Constellation. If a ship is important to canon it should be in the game, but a ship that was nothing but a floating pile of wreckage is not important to canon. Heck, many of these kitback ships did not even have names until a non-canon source gave them names. That is how unimportant they were to Trek's canon even in the various series.
I am glad you are passionate about wanting these kitbash ships, but 30 people wanting them does not justify them spending the time to make them.
I wasn't trying to "compare" my business knowledge with yours.. I was simply stating that I do quite well in ithe business field.. and that I have a better understanding of it than you might think...
congrats that you were so successful.. however, your tirade of why your better than me showed me why It is a waste of time to go toe to toe with you, and why your condescending, dismissive, and why you think you know better than everyone else..
my last post, I had a big mean thing written out. I decided to erase the whole thing, and try to let bygons be bygons.. I was trying to put out the friendly gesture and say, im done.. this is how I feel, and what not..
I wasn't expecting to get slapped in the face after that one.. lol..
I do not lie.. it is something I don't do. everyone who knows me knows ill admit when im wrong, and that sometimes, even when it was better to lie, I will face the truth and take the heat for it.. I am not lieing when I say that several devs have been known to say that there were more star trek fans pre f2p, and that after f2p more general sci fi fans joined.. when they first started talking about reworking esd, I remember reading one of the devs statements that they had to make an attempt to get the people who had left.
even before stahl left, he had done an interview where they had talked about the player base, and how a bulk of the trek fans left, and that they now had people who cared less about trek and more about sci fi in general.. and that he wanted to find a balance in trying to keep the ladder entertained, while trying to bring the former back..
im pretty sure taco said something along these lines as well..
again I do not lie. it serves no end on this forum, considering all you have to do is a little research, and boom. the info is there..
so I get it. your mr ceo, you know more than everyone here, you win.. do what you want with it.. I don't care. ill rethink weather I like the ships or not while im at it, cause your opinion is right, so I must be wrong.. anything else you wish to change my mind about or think I should do?
if it were the Corvette approach, it would not be kitbashed. it would be very sleek, and definitely overpowered. and then the second one would be even more overpowered and the third one OMFG it's over powered (assuming you ARE referring to the car)
we need at a minimum of:
1. naussican Orion and gorn flyable escorts and battle cruisers, and all four major KDF races need a modern science design.
and as a I really want to own one, a stinking K'vort.
the roms need a good science ship as well.
no flyable undine no 120 year old kitbashes, no "oh, we saw these guys in the worst two of the star trek series in 3 episodes so we will center a whole dang season about them and make ships that are overpowered"
except it's not the Devs, it's CBS that said no. that argument is over said and done
actually, it's Jem bug PETS that we want. I could care less about the escort
How much less could you care...?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
enough that it would immediately go on sale in the exchange, and a lot less than it is currently PROVIDING I COULD UNLOCK THE PETS in some other way
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
It is a little sad that we are 4 years into the game and Cryptic has finally gotten to a place where they can finally start really hitting the Undine story hard, but this was always the intention of the game.
And just as an FYI, at the time I made the post you quoted every one of those "wants" was being asked for in a thread on the first page of the General forum. That is why I choose those examples: to show how fractured the fan-base is on the things that they want Cryptic to drop everything and add to the game.
so everyone can calm down and feel the joy of happiness.
yeah I apologize about that..
but I still think we should get these ships as at the very least skins..
that being said, I don't care what the other factions get.. are we not in the federation ship yards.. if you want Klingon vessels, lobby for them in the klink ship yard.. lol...
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I personally enjoy canon ships a lot more then cryptics designs. I thought the regent skin for the assault cruiser was TRIBBLE and I thought the avenger looked like a space duck. Only new ship that is decent looking is the Odyssey and it wasn't designed by cryptic but was designed by a star trek fan...go figure. Anyway, I would purchase all these ships, either individually or via some kind of pack. Provided that some of them have decent boff and console layouts of course.
You don't like you don't buy/use, if you do your happy and the devs gets your money.
All winners......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
What you really need if you want them is to show that there's enough people willing to spend money to get these that it's worth their time to make them over something else. And this thread doesn't really do that.
And the devs always listen to the forums and what they want, just look at how they gave us all the dread we wanted....:(
So what you think more people want to fly Star Trek styled ships or B5 Vorlon lock offs,...
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
The Dreadnought some people on this forum wanted is an appeal to the underlying imbalances of the game that the devs are striving to correct. A lot of people around here can't see that.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
It's not like anyone who isn't a Trek fan would have heard of the Vesta, but it still sold pretty well. I'm willing to bet it wouldn't have sold any less if one of its variants had looked like the Springfield or something.
That looks like an Excelsior that got punched in the face very hard.
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Curry
Admittedly, I'd love to try flying it. But I can't imagine it would anything more than a T3 Heavy Cruiser ship within STO. (Why? The warp nacelles, as one example.)
If they have a TOS connie as a zen ship why not the Constellation which of note Stargazer was supposed to be a connie at first but it was changed later. So totally viable. For the kitbashes. many off them are so better then cryptic designs. Notice which fed ships are played the most. it's cannon fed ships. Regent, puke city. and Avenger please. NEW ORLEANS should have been the battle Cruiser not that POC. I specific refuse to buy it because of it. and that's what the devs need to see. they get an idea for a ship type in game. go to the cannon ships first before masking your own. heck the Curry is another example. Make a the curry a Fed flight deck cruiser.At this point in time i have no faith in the ship designers in Cryptic. the ships they make get uglier and uglier. go cannon for find fan based ships to use.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I would get the Avenger. IF it had a New orleans skin
I support having the other three in the game.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
how are they striving to fix imbalance when they keep releasing ships like the avenger and scimitar. but decide to take a ship that in canon would wipe the floor with those two ships, and make it such a meh build lol..
I agree, they have their reasons for not doing or doing something, but please, do not bring up balance. cryptic has absolutely no idea what that word means.. nor do they care, it is how they sell stuff.
however, if you are a company, and you wish to make a game about star trek, it is a no brainer that you should probably include the ships from the show. not saying they have to stop everything and make them all happen now. but, they should have a plan to release all the canon ships from the tng era on. like we said, they can make their own cryptic designs as additional skins. and no one is saying they have to be cutting edge either. not every ship has to be launched with a special console and power.