Its possible that the secondary "Battle" bridge on the Nebula might be the Aux Control. I'm pretty sure that if the Main Bridge on a Galaxy was blown clean off, the Battle Bridge could act as the primary even while still connected, acting as an Aux Control Center. Just because Engineering was shown to do so more doesn't rule out the possibility. And using the Intrepid and NX as examples of using Engineering as an Aux Control Center while discussing ships with secondary bridge modules is kinda pointless as the NX and Intrepid are smaller designs that weren't meant to seperate, therefore they would HAVE to use Engineering.
Now... the Nebula's main shuttlebay... how the hell does that work with the mission pod pylon right in front of it? I'd call that a design oversight.
And in regards to the recent Miranda/Centaur seperation thing... what would they be seperating from? The Miranda is a saucer attached to necelles and a rollbar. The Warp Core is in the hull. Same goes with the Centaur, a saucer attached to a torpedo launcher and necelles.
that is a fan theory of why the uss odyssey's bridge was so much different form the enterprise-d's the captain preferred to command form the battle bridge even when connected in a combat situation
I doubt the centaur or Miranda could separate-it just wouldn't do much good considering it's anatomy. However, I do think it would be great if the Nebula, and possibly the Sovereign could separate. Of course, I'd also like to see the nebula's mission pod reflect the supposed versatility of the craft more, I'd like to see it have the venture skin and an option for the circular mission pod, and I'd like to see the at least the galaxy, if not the sovereign have a shuttle bay like the Galaxy-x, and I don't see Cryptic adding any of those features any time soon.
Its possible that the secondary "Battle" bridge on the Nebula might be the Aux Control. I'm pretty sure that if the Main Bridge on a Galaxy was blown clean off, the Battle Bridge could act as the primary even while still connected, acting as an Aux Control Center. Just because Engineering was shown to do so more doesn't rule out the possibility. And using the Intrepid and NX as examples of using Engineering as an Aux Control Center while discussing ships with secondary bridge modules is kinda pointless as the NX and Intrepid are smaller designs that weren't meant to seperate, therefore they would HAVE to use Engineering.
Now... the Nebula's main shuttlebay... how the hell does that work with the mission pod pylon right in front of it? I'd call that a design oversight.
The basis for the battle bridge justification is the extensive use of Engineering as the backup command center when the bridge is critically damaged or otherwise unavailable. Ships prior to the Galaxy, which did not feature saucer separation as a routine procedure, did not require a battle bridge. In the pre-Galaxy days, Engineering (or in TOS Connie, some weird backup command center thing) served as the emergency command center.
Even when the Galaxy-class came out, Engineering (on multiple occasions) still served as the emerg command. Which raises some interesting points.
If Engineering still served as the emerg command center, then what specifically does the battle bridge do? (ie, when is it appropriate to use the battle bridge?)
In ships with no saucer separation capability, do they have a battle bridge?
The Nebula has a battle bridge, according to the MSD published in Star Trek Communicator (an official magazine, and hereby considered apocryphal) several years ago. Why does the Nebula have a battle bridge, if it won't be used in situations where the main bridge is blown off?
The battle bridge was used only in scenes where the Enterprise-D was separating. It was never used in other situations where the main bridge was taken over or otherwise inoperable/inaccessible. Which leads me to suppose that the battle bridge's normal operation is only in cases where the Galaxy's saucer is separating. Thus, since the Nebula has a battle bridge, the Nebula has saucer separation capability as well. And by that, I mean routine saucer separation, not an emergency procedure requiring a starbase to undo the damage.
As for the shuttlebay, I don't know. The Galaxy-X has the same problem (albeit not as bad).
As for "saucer separation" on the Miranda and Centaur. I'd imagine something catastrophic requiring an emergency saucer detachment would be either in the warp core or in the nacelles. If that were the case, would it not simply be easier to explosively detach the nacelles or eject the core?
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The basis for the battle bridge justification is the extensive use of Engineering as the backup command center when the bridge is critically damaged or otherwise unavailable. Ships prior to the Galaxy, which did not feature saucer separation as a routine procedure, did not require a battle bridge. In the pre-Galaxy days, Engineering (or in TOS Connie, some weird backup command center thing) served as the emergency command center.
Even when the Galaxy-class came out, Engineering (on multiple occasions) still served as the emerg command. Which raises some interesting points.
If Engineering still served as the emerg command center, then what specifically does the battle bridge do? (ie, when is it appropriate to use the battle bridge?)
In ships with no saucer separation capability, do they have a battle bridge?
The Nebula has a battle bridge, according to the MSD published in Star Trek Communicator (an official magazine, and hereby considered apocryphal) several years ago. Why does the Nebula have a battle bridge, if it won't be used in situations where the main bridge is blown off?
The battle bridge was used only in scenes where the Enterprise-D was separating. It was never used in other situations where the main bridge was taken over or otherwise inoperable/inaccessible. Which leads me to suppose that the battle bridge's normal operation is only in cases where the Galaxy's saucer is separating. Thus, since the Nebula has a battle bridge, the Nebula has saucer separation capability as well. And by that, I mean routine saucer separation, not an emergency procedure requiring a starbase to undo the damage.
Well the reason why they did use eng as Aux control was quiet obvious: There wasn't a permanent "battle bridge" set and they didn't want to build one for that episodes.
It makes absolutely no sense to have a second, fully operational bridge and just lock it out from use as long as the saucer is connected.
In that case its really hard to find a reason why they might not have used it, I think that should be done by looking at the situations one by one...
And the ST communicator is not canon. I don't even think its licensed... Wasn't that just a fan magazine?
The pre refit Connie was supposed to have Saucer Seperation as an emergency evac thing if I remember correctly from reading somewhere. Explosive bolts would go off, seperating the saucer from the rest of the ship. No way to reattach without a shipyard.
Anyways... when I pointed out the lack of visible impulse engines on the Nebula, I was bringing up the fact that we have impulse trails, but no visible source. They just come off the saucer about where the Galaxy's saucer impulse engines come from.
as for the battle bridge aucx control. the connie had one. that's where they found Decker. As for why wasn't it used. it was likely set up as an alien bridge or being prepared for that or another bridge for that episode or time contraints or the simple fact the writers FORGOT IT. Som,e ships have room for an Aux control some don't, size of ship matters. Interpid too small so engineering does well. but nebula and Ambassador can have one.
That would have been awesome in The Motion Picture. Scotty, err, the Klingon Commander might have survived...maybe. (Both roles were played by James Doohan)
As for why wasn't it used. it was likely set up as an alien bridge or being prepared for that or another bridge for that episode or time contraints or the simple fact the writers FORGOT IT.
Poor excuse. That fits right in with "the writers needed XYZ ship to be OP/UP", plot armor, etc.
Some ships have room for an Aux control some don't, size of ship matters. Intrepid too small so engineering does well. but nebula and Ambassador can have one.
Regardless, throughout the various TV series, we consistently see the command crew trying to do their command business in Engineering when the main bridge is out of air, taken over, blown up, or simply inaccessible. This trend of "setting up camp in Engineering" happened before the Galaxy-class, on a Galaxy-class, and after a Galaxy-class. Thus, if there were such a dire emergency on any Federation ship in which the bridge couldn't be used, Engineering is where the command crew goes.
I again state, the battle bridge on the Nebula is there because the ship separates. Not because the Nebula is somehow a special ship and needs a second bridge only for emergencies, when Engineering can do that job just fine.
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Cool, never knew that for certain. I haven't watched as much TOS as the other series.
Poor excuse. That fits right in with "the writers needed XYZ ship to be OP/UP", plot armor, etc.
Regardless, throughout the various TV series, we consistently see the command crew trying to do their command business in Engineering when the main bridge is out of air, taken over, blown up, or simply inaccessible. This trend of "setting up camp in Engineering" happened before the Galaxy-class, on a Galaxy-class, and after a Galaxy-class. Thus, if there were such a dire emergency on any Federation ship in which the bridge couldn't be used, Engineering is where the command crew goes.
I again state, the battle bridge on the Nebula is there because the ship separates. Not because the Nebula is somehow a special ship and needs a second bridge only for emergencies, when Engineering can do that job just fine.
Not poor excuse, the obvious one. look through out the TNG the bulk of the alien or other federation bridge is the battle bridge which is also the TMP bridge set. They could have had that battle bridge still in alien setup from last time or were making that way so it wasn't is battle form and consider the time they have to make episodes they may have not had enough time to do it. and Yes writers is an issue to. Why didn't Riker unleash hell on the Duras sisters BOP in Generations. even with sheilds uselss the E-D could kill them before the damage that lead to ware core breach. the reason he didn't. PLOT OUTCOME. E-D HAD TO DIE. Thus she didn't own the BOP as she should.
and as tech progressed starfleet maybe decided that most ships didn't need an aux control. Miranada likely didn't do to size. Same for Intrepid and such. Connie did, Excel likely did to for she is just a connie on steroids. For Nebula. likely for cost reasons kept it their for it would be useful. And for the ones made soley to retreve gal saucers that battle bridge was the Recover Nebs main bridge. Do i fully discount Nebula doing saucer sep, no but looking at what we do know about her it's more likely an aux bridge then seperate battle bridge. but could be wrong. i thought the GalX gave up saucer sep for the lance.
That makes sense looking at the neck, it's just a vertical tube going into the bottom of the saucer. I imagine it would be comparatively easy to maneuver to disconnect/reconnect if it had sacuer seperation
Not poor excuse, the obvious one. look through out the TNG the bulk of the alien or other federation bridge is the battle bridge which is also the TMP bridge set. They could have had that battle bridge still in alien setup from last time or were making that way so it wasn't is battle form and consider the time they have to make episodes they may have not had enough time to do it. and Yes writers is an issue to. Why didn't Riker unleash hell on the Duras sisters BOP in Generations. even with sheilds uselss the E-D could kill them before the damage that lead to ware core breach. the reason he didn't. PLOT OUTCOME. E-D HAD TO DIE. Thus she didn't own the BOP as she should.
Thanks for proving my point. The writers have placed a lot of bias onto virtually every ship in the Trek series, which doesn't represent how the ship would behave normally. They also conveniently omit or forget content when writing the scripts. It still is not a valid excuse or proof for a sudden omission of an important component of a starship.
and as tech progressed starfleet maybe decided that most ships didn't need an aux control. Miranada likely didn't do to size. Same for Intrepid and such. Connie did, Excel likely did to for she is just a connie on steroids. For Nebula. likely for cost reasons kept it their for it would be useful. And for the ones made soley to retreve gal saucers that battle bridge was the Recover Nebs main bridge. Do i fully discount Nebula doing saucer sep, no but looking at what we do know about her it's more likely an aux bridge then seperate battle bridge. but could be wrong. i thought the GalX gave up saucer sep for the lance.
No, as tech progressed Starfleet might have decided they needed an "aux control" or backup command center or whatever. That's why the Galaxy is the first one to have a dedicated battle bridge, as opposed to a closet with computers. Hmm, perhaps they needed the battle bridge when the ship separates? Wouldn't that be convenient?
Again, there isn't a need to have an aux control on any starship, since the command crew can chill in Engineering and do the same thing, while having direct access to the power systems on the ship. I maintain, the battle bridge is there only for a ship with routine saucer separation capability. Otherwise, there isn't a need for one, and the space would be better taken up by other necessities (quarters, storage, etc).
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I'd say that is one of the very few cases where people CAN discuss if its canon or not (unlike the tons of situation where people just throw stuff in there and call it canon because they think its a good idea^^ - aka "its canon that the akira was build to fight the Borg" or "The Klingon/Romulan alliance during TOS, thats canon" or "its obviously canon that the JJ Verse is an alternate universe that did not overwrite to original one.")
I personally like to consider as little as "canon" as possible. Leaves more space for creativity. So I wouldnt consider that one canon^^
I'd love saucer sep for my sovereign, but there are certainly more important things.
I think there isn't really much room for a discussion. If we are accurate, canon doesn't show any signs of separation since we never saw it on-screen, either on the ship or okudagram. If we did it would be canon.
So, next best thing is the apocryphal stuff, although to my knowledge neither production notes nor technical manuals (which aren't hard-canon per definition of course, but are guidelines for the writers nd as such I personally consider them secondary sources) showed saucer separation capability.
If it would get it, I wouldn't complain. What STO does is it's own thing anyway and I wouldn't cry out if the Nebula would or could separate, I personally just think this wasn't what they were going for with that design. Although separation is rarely a bad thing, I think the theme fits Starfleet vessels past TNG, and I think the Sovereign is supposed to be separateable, but that never made it on-screen.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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Let's see.....They effed up BAD by giving the Galaxy X Saucer sep, so I take it there isn't anything stopping them from making a saucer sep for the Nebula class.
It seems that certain fans do NOT read anything about the reason why the Galaxy X DOESN'T have saucer sep. So they won't understand that the Nebula Class shouldn't have it either because the design of the ship just DOESN'T allow it. It's just as bad as the Miranda class not having a Deflector dish, Yet you can slap any Deflector dish on it.
The nebula was originally conceived as a ship for recovering galaxy class saucers (which lack warp on their own), the model has the lines on it that indicate where the saucer would separate, and apparently the schematics seem to back up this theory according to an earlier poster. Although it is true we have never seen the Nebula separate, most of what we can learn from secondary sources and by looking at the ship seem to point towards it having this ability.
Let's see.....They effed up BAD by giving the Galaxy X Saucer sep, so I take it there isn't anything stopping them from making a saucer sep for the Nebula class.
You can take my Galaxy-X's phaser shotgun when you pry it from my cold, dead, iconian hands.
It seems that certain fans do NOT read anything about the reason why the Galaxy X DOESN'T have saucer sep. So they won't understand that the Nebula Class shouldn't have it either because the design of the ship just DOESN'T allow it. It's just as bad as the Miranda class not having a Deflector dish, Yet you can slap any Deflector dish on it.
Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself.
The great thing about science, technology, and innovation is that nothing is sacred. Our roads were not originally designed for horseless carriages, our televisions were not originally designed for digital cable, and there was originally 'No Market' for personal computers.
Technology advances quite rapidly in Starfleet, too. And that is canon.
Thanks for proving my point. The writers have placed a lot of bias onto virtually every ship in the Trek series, which doesn't represent how the ship would behave normally. They also conveniently omit or forget content when writing the scripts. It still is not a valid excuse or proof for a sudden omission of an important component of a starship.
No, as tech progressed Starfleet might have decided they needed an "aux control" or backup command center or whatever. That's why the Galaxy is the first one to have a dedicated battle bridge, as opposed to a closet with computers. Hmm, perhaps they needed the battle bridge when the ship separates? Wouldn't that be convenient?
Again, there isn't a need to have an aux control on any starship, since the command crew can chill in Engineering and do the same thing, while having direct access to the power systems on the ship. I maintain, the battle bridge is there only for a ship with routine saucer separation capability. Otherwise, there isn't a need for one, and the space would be better taken up by other necessities (quarters, storage, etc).
Just like when the original Enterprise died they used explosives not warp core breach. it's only in the 24th century that the self destruct warp core breach was used. so again maybe the idea of using Engineering as aux control over making an aux control as prefered for most vessels and ships like Galaxy needed the other bridge because of that function it could also be used as aux contriol. For trek itself there is no reason that the battle bridge wouldn't be used in emergencies but in real life it is likely they couldn't use the bridge set of it was either A) being used in one of the late TMP movies, or being converted or used as an alien bridge. While Engineering would always be as is with no change thus more availibe.The thing that bugged me was why didn't the nebula use the Gal bridge since everything else is the same. Heck when Data commanded a Nebula they didn't use the battle bridge set for that either but a room with a few consoles. Heck i bet it was a redress of the Science lab set.
Again does it make sense from trek universe point of view. NO but real life production issues get in the way thus. Nebula's and even the USS Odyessy not using the main galaxy bridge or the TMp 'Battle" bridge set.
the centaur and miranda class ships cant saucer separate from its engineering and nacelle sections, the nebula is in the same boat because its also a saucer section with an engineering section and nacelles.
leave it alone, its a science ship mean for well, science things, not combat.
the excelsior on the other hand had the ability for saucer separation btw, however it was never shown, it was instead given to the galaxy class.
We don't know for sure whether the Centaur-type can saucer separate, and if it could, it wouldn't be "true" saucer sep. The saucer would be detachable in an emergency and probably couldn't be reconnected to the back end without starbase assistance.
As for the Miranda-class, that ship doesn't look like it can saucer separate, since 80% of the hull is the saucer.
The Excelsior-class was never specifically stated to be saucer separation capable. Even if it were, it would likely be similar to the TOS/TMP Connie: emergency detach only, not a routine operation.
The Galaxy-class spaceframe was the first Federation Starfleet design to routinely separate AND reattach without the need for a starbase. It would make sense that, according to the Okudagram/MSD, the Nebula would be able to do the same. After all, why else would the Nebula need a battle bridge and have a separation line?
Captain Robert DeSoto was the commanding officer of the Federation starship USS Hood and one of Starfleet's most famous officers.
From 2361 to 2364, his first officer was Lieutenant Commander William T. Riker. During a mission to Altair III, Riker refused to allow Captain DeSoto to lead the away mission, due to the dangers the planet possessed. Despite this incident, Captain DeSoto had a great respect for Riker and regretted his transfer to the USS Enterprise-D. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") Captain Picard referenced this incident to Admiral Pressman as the reason he selected Riker to be his first officer. (TNG: "The Pegasus")
Now jump to Encounter at Farpoint. Set in 2364, the USS Hood is confirmed by film to be an Excelsior-class starship. As it is the starship which dropped Riker off at Farpoint. And is also the starship seen departing with Admiral McCoy.
DATA'S VOICE
The Saucer Module is now entering
orbit with us, sir.
PICARD
Acknowledged. Commander Riker will
conduct a manual docking. Picard
out.
RIKER
Sir?
PICARD
You've reported in, haven't you?
You are qualified?
RIKER
Yes, sir.
PICARD
Then I meant now, Mister Riker.
Riker successfully performs the necessary steps to guide a manual docking of the Galaxy-class saucer to her battle section. I believe that the qualifications for his doing this successfully are based upon field experience rather than simulation. IMO, a Captain like Picard wouldn't take that kind of risk with his new command. I acknowledge this detail is not elaborated upon.
However, it's a matter of canon that Riker previously served aboard the Oberth-class Pegasus, the Excelsior-class Potemkin and then the Excelsior-class Hood. Therefore, IMO, it's highly likely that Riker's qualification to manually dock a separated saucer module was acquired through his experience with Excelsior-class starships. Without need for a Starbase. I further extrapolate that saucer separation and manual docking technology goes at least as far back as the USS Excelsior herself.
I can accept this possibility without a single special effects scene ever being filmed to interpret it. YMMV.
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as for the battle bridge aucx control. the connie had one. that's where they found Decker. As for why wasn't it used. it was likely set up as an alien bridge or being prepared for that or another bridge for that episode or time contraints or the simple fact the writers FORGOT IT. Som,e ships have room for an Aux control some don't, size of ship matters. Interpid too small so engineering does well. but nebula and Ambassador can have one.
You are a special kind of slow, aren't you?
Simple terms: Not shown on screen, not canon.
It can't be made more simple than that... seriously.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Instead of arguing over an aux con and whether it was needed or not for a saucer sep, can I ask a dumb question that's been asked before.
WHAT IN THE NAME OF HELL IS A NEBULA GOING TO SEPARATE FROM? The warp engines and pod over the top.
What infrastructure is going to hold all that together and do it efficiently? Oh wait the saucer you want to separate is what holds all that together.
Sorry, this goes under the header of "Bad ideas in what not to do in starships that are not designed to separate."
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Why the hell do people constantly want to split their ships up!?
It's a stupid tactic that didn't make any sense in TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think there isn't really much room for a discussion. If we are accurate, canon doesn't show any signs of separation since we never saw it on-screen, either on the ship or okudagram. If we did it would be canon.
Still speaking of the Sovereign, I don't know what "we" saw, since I don't know what YOU saw, but I can pretty clearly see the separation line on the ship model and the MSD.
And the Nebula... well the "original one"= Phoenix was different then the later shown versions.
The LATER versions actually were literally kit bashes and so they HAD the separation lines since they were,, production wise, galaxy saucers.
The original Phoenix had a slightly different saucer, that didn't have the lines...
So, next best thing is the apocryphal stuff, although to my knowledge neither production notes nor technical manuals (which aren't hard-canon per definition of course, but are guidelines for the writers nd as such I personally consider them secondary sources) showed saucer separation capability.
From the production notes... I have that Sovereign information from the CD-inlet from the original Soundtrack from first contact^^. Others saw that on different places.. Had been quoted multiple times^^
Here they clearly stated that the Sovereign was designed (from a production POW) with saucer separation in mind in case they needed that for a later movie.
That is certainly not canon (otherwise we would have the Akira-Sue class with her 3 million quantum torpedo launchers and the ability to launch 24 death stars from her hangar bay as canon) but it adds some degree of credibility.
But speaking of the Akira: IMO the "Canon" definition is very tight. Not even the name "Akira class" for that ship is canon.
And the tighter the better, because the less things are established/prohibited by canon the more new author can add.
Canon is a double edged sword: On the one hand it gives the Universe some consistency and makes it feel more "real", on the other hand it can suffocate creativity like nothing else...
For the Nebula... honestly, I doubt production ever payed much thought into the question if she can separate.
If it would get it, I wouldn't complain. What STO does is it's own thing anyway and I wouldn't cry out if the Nebula would or could separate, I personally just think this wasn't what they were going for with that design. Although separation is rarely a bad thing, I think the theme fits Starfleet vessels past TNG, and I think the Sovereign is supposed to be separateable, but that never made it on-screen.
Instead of arguing over an aux con and whether it was needed or not for a saucer sep, can I ask a dumb question that's been asked before.
WHAT IN THE NAME OF HELL IS A NEBULA GOING TO SEPARATE FROM? The warp engines and pod over the top.
What infrastructure is going to hold all that together and do it efficiently? Oh wait the saucer you want to separate is what holds all that together.
Sorry, this goes under the header of "Bad ideas in what not to do in starships that are not designed to separate."
Interesting theory...?
All images I have seen, seem to indicated that the Nebula is designed much in the same way the Galaxy is, with the nacelles attached to the engineering hull, like the saucer, just without the neck?
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
@ revandarklighter: Sorry, I was talking about the Nebula in my latest post, only mentioning the Sovereign in the last sentence, should have pointed that out
The Sovereign, as far as I know and like we both stated, was meant to feature separation but for one reaon or the other that never was actually shown. I wouldn't mind if she could, also this would further shaft the poor Galaxy in STO
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
@ revandarklighter: Sorry, I was talking about the Nebula in my latest post, only mentioning the Sovereign in the last sentence, should have pointed that out
The Sovereign, as far as I know and like we both stated, was meant to feature separation but for one reaon or the other that never was actually shown. I wouldn't mind if she could, also this would further shaft the poor Galaxy in STO
The ugly whale II class, better known as odyssee, has separation too...
Also the Galaxy needs some love no matter what (which would certainly be more important then adding separation to the Sov), keeping that (already non exclusive) thing limited doesn't really save her.
*camera shot of Vor'cha, very carefully, firing at the stubby neck of a Nebula*
Gun crew: "Almost got it..."
*camera shot of saucer severed from the ship, floating slowly away*
Gun crew: "Got it!"
Captain: "Another successful saucer removal!"
Maybe we could borrow one of those borg cutting beams they are so fond of, they seemed pretty effective at slicing and dicing saucers.
I'd love to have saucer separation for the Nebula...as part of a 3-ship set.
Just throwing some ideas out there:
Tac: Styled as the current one, with the tactical torpedo/phaser beam array pod; replace the Lt.Com Engineering slot with a Tac, and give it another tac console. Give it some sort of torpedo spam ability to reflect the number of extra tubes it has, or the capability to mount the one from the Armitage.
Eng: Replace the pod with another couple warp nacelles, as was planned for the shows; give it saucer separation, and a 4th engineering console. Leave the boff setup as-is.
Sci: Give it the AWACS-style sensor pod as seen in the show, and the current console for the tachyon detection grid; swap the boff seating for a more sci-heavy setup.
Set bonus: +15% turn speed, +25% torpedo/mine damage, +15 to all science skills (not a huge buff; just a universal one, to reflect the nature of the ship's design).
Customization: Allow all customized parts from the Galaxy and Nebula ships to be used, aside from the Galaxy-X bits.
I would gladly pay for this, and the amount of work Cryptic would have to do on it would be grealy reduced from their other C-store ships, considering all they'd have to do is create the new pods, copy/paste bits of the Galaxy's upper neck/rear saucer, and deal with the coding bits for that and the console/boff setups. The rest of the ship is already there.
I realize some are set against this; I fail to see why, since it would only affect the people who actually fly the Nebula, and even then, only the ones who want to use the new stuff. What's wrong with having more options if those options don't break the game?
Comments
that is a fan theory of why the uss odyssey's bridge was so much different form the enterprise-d's the captain preferred to command form the battle bridge even when connected in a combat situation
Even when the Galaxy-class came out, Engineering (on multiple occasions) still served as the emerg command. Which raises some interesting points.
The battle bridge was used only in scenes where the Enterprise-D was separating. It was never used in other situations where the main bridge was taken over or otherwise inoperable/inaccessible. Which leads me to suppose that the battle bridge's normal operation is only in cases where the Galaxy's saucer is separating. Thus, since the Nebula has a battle bridge, the Nebula has saucer separation capability as well. And by that, I mean routine saucer separation, not an emergency procedure requiring a starbase to undo the damage.
As for the shuttlebay, I don't know. The Galaxy-X has the same problem (albeit not as bad).
As for "saucer separation" on the Miranda and Centaur. I'd imagine something catastrophic requiring an emergency saucer detachment would be either in the warp core or in the nacelles. If that were the case, would it not simply be easier to explosively detach the nacelles or eject the core?
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Well the reason why they did use eng as Aux control was quiet obvious: There wasn't a permanent "battle bridge" set and they didn't want to build one for that episodes.
It makes absolutely no sense to have a second, fully operational bridge and just lock it out from use as long as the saucer is connected.
In that case its really hard to find a reason why they might not have used it, I think that should be done by looking at the situations one by one...
And the ST communicator is not canon. I don't even think its licensed... Wasn't that just a fan magazine?
Some Excelsiors could apparently also separate.
here you go, form the guy you DESIGN THE SHIP. http://startrekships.tumblr.com/post/31131807120/sovereign-class-saucer-separation-concept-by-john
as for the battle bridge aucx control. the connie had one. that's where they found Decker. As for why wasn't it used. it was likely set up as an alien bridge or being prepared for that or another bridge for that episode or time contraints or the simple fact the writers FORGOT IT. Som,e ships have room for an Aux control some don't, size of ship matters. Interpid too small so engineering does well. but nebula and Ambassador can have one.
Then who did Mark "Sarek" Lenard play? :eek:
Poor excuse. That fits right in with "the writers needed XYZ ship to be OP/UP", plot armor, etc.
Regardless, throughout the various TV series, we consistently see the command crew trying to do their command business in Engineering when the main bridge is out of air, taken over, blown up, or simply inaccessible. This trend of "setting up camp in Engineering" happened before the Galaxy-class, on a Galaxy-class, and after a Galaxy-class. Thus, if there were such a dire emergency on any Federation ship in which the bridge couldn't be used, Engineering is where the command crew goes.
I again state, the battle bridge on the Nebula is there because the ship separates. Not because the Nebula is somehow a special ship and needs a second bridge only for emergencies, when Engineering can do that job just fine.
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Not poor excuse, the obvious one. look through out the TNG the bulk of the alien or other federation bridge is the battle bridge which is also the TMP bridge set. They could have had that battle bridge still in alien setup from last time or were making that way so it wasn't is battle form and consider the time they have to make episodes they may have not had enough time to do it. and Yes writers is an issue to. Why didn't Riker unleash hell on the Duras sisters BOP in Generations. even with sheilds uselss the E-D could kill them before the damage that lead to ware core breach. the reason he didn't. PLOT OUTCOME. E-D HAD TO DIE. Thus she didn't own the BOP as she should.
and as tech progressed starfleet maybe decided that most ships didn't need an aux control. Miranada likely didn't do to size. Same for Intrepid and such. Connie did, Excel likely did to for she is just a connie on steroids. For Nebula. likely for cost reasons kept it their for it would be useful. And for the ones made soley to retreve gal saucers that battle bridge was the Recover Nebs main bridge. Do i fully discount Nebula doing saucer sep, no but looking at what we do know about her it's more likely an aux bridge then seperate battle bridge. but could be wrong. i thought the GalX gave up saucer sep for the lance.
Thanks for proving my point. The writers have placed a lot of bias onto virtually every ship in the Trek series, which doesn't represent how the ship would behave normally. They also conveniently omit or forget content when writing the scripts. It still is not a valid excuse or proof for a sudden omission of an important component of a starship.
No, as tech progressed Starfleet might have decided they needed an "aux control" or backup command center or whatever. That's why the Galaxy is the first one to have a dedicated battle bridge, as opposed to a closet with computers. Hmm, perhaps they needed the battle bridge when the ship separates? Wouldn't that be convenient?
Again, there isn't a need to have an aux control on any starship, since the command crew can chill in Engineering and do the same thing, while having direct access to the power systems on the ship. I maintain, the battle bridge is there only for a ship with routine saucer separation capability. Otherwise, there isn't a need for one, and the space would be better taken up by other necessities (quarters, storage, etc).
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I think there isn't really much room for a discussion. If we are accurate, canon doesn't show any signs of separation since we never saw it on-screen, either on the ship or okudagram. If we did it would be canon.
So, next best thing is the apocryphal stuff, although to my knowledge neither production notes nor technical manuals (which aren't hard-canon per definition of course, but are guidelines for the writers nd as such I personally consider them secondary sources) showed saucer separation capability.
If it would get it, I wouldn't complain. What STO does is it's own thing anyway and I wouldn't cry out if the Nebula would or could separate, I personally just think this wasn't what they were going for with that design. Although separation is rarely a bad thing, I think the theme fits Starfleet vessels past TNG, and I think the Sovereign is supposed to be separateable, but that never made it on-screen.
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It seems that certain fans do NOT read anything about the reason why the Galaxy X DOESN'T have saucer sep. So they won't understand that the Nebula Class shouldn't have it either because the design of the ship just DOESN'T allow it. It's just as bad as the Miranda class not having a Deflector dish, Yet you can slap any Deflector dish on it.
Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself.
You can take my Galaxy-X's phaser shotgun when you pry it from my cold, dead, iconian hands.
The great thing about science, technology, and innovation is that nothing is sacred. Our roads were not originally designed for horseless carriages, our televisions were not originally designed for digital cable, and there was originally 'No Market' for personal computers.
Technology advances quite rapidly in Starfleet, too. And that is canon.
Just like when the original Enterprise died they used explosives not warp core breach. it's only in the 24th century that the self destruct warp core breach was used. so again maybe the idea of using Engineering as aux control over making an aux control as prefered for most vessels and ships like Galaxy needed the other bridge because of that function it could also be used as aux contriol. For trek itself there is no reason that the battle bridge wouldn't be used in emergencies but in real life it is likely they couldn't use the bridge set of it was either A) being used in one of the late TMP movies, or
Again does it make sense from trek universe point of view. NO but real life production issues get in the way thus. Nebula's and even the USS Odyessy not using the main galaxy bridge or the TMp 'Battle" bridge set.
Consider the following?
Now jump to Encounter at Farpoint. Set in 2364, the USS Hood is confirmed by film to be an Excelsior-class starship. As it is the starship which dropped Riker off at Farpoint. And is also the starship seen departing with Admiral McCoy.
Riker successfully performs the necessary steps to guide a manual docking of the Galaxy-class saucer to her battle section. I believe that the qualifications for his doing this successfully are based upon field experience rather than simulation. IMO, a Captain like Picard wouldn't take that kind of risk with his new command. I acknowledge this detail is not elaborated upon.
However, it's a matter of canon that Riker previously served aboard the Oberth-class Pegasus, the Excelsior-class Potemkin and then the Excelsior-class Hood. Therefore, IMO, it's highly likely that Riker's qualification to manually dock a separated saucer module was acquired through his experience with Excelsior-class starships. Without need for a Starbase. I further extrapolate that saucer separation and manual docking technology goes at least as far back as the USS Excelsior herself.
I can accept this possibility without a single special effects scene ever being filmed to interpret it. YMMV.
You are a special kind of slow, aren't you?
Simple terms: Not shown on screen, not canon.
It can't be made more simple than that... seriously.
WHAT IN THE NAME OF HELL IS A NEBULA GOING TO SEPARATE FROM? The warp engines and pod over the top.
What infrastructure is going to hold all that together and do it efficiently? Oh wait the saucer you want to separate is what holds all that together.
Sorry, this goes under the header of "Bad ideas in what not to do in starships that are not designed to separate."
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It's a stupid tactic that didn't make any sense in TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
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'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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Still speaking of the Sovereign, I don't know what "we" saw, since I don't know what YOU saw, but I can pretty clearly see the separation line on the ship model and the MSD.
And the Nebula... well the "original one"= Phoenix was different then the later shown versions.
The LATER versions actually were literally kit bashes and so they HAD the separation lines since they were,, production wise, galaxy saucers.
The original Phoenix had a slightly different saucer, that didn't have the lines...
From the production notes... I have that Sovereign information from the CD-inlet from the original Soundtrack from first contact^^. Others saw that on different places.. Had been quoted multiple times^^
Here they clearly stated that the Sovereign was designed (from a production POW) with saucer separation in mind in case they needed that for a later movie.
That is certainly not canon (otherwise we would have the Akira-Sue class with her 3 million quantum torpedo launchers and the ability to launch 24 death stars from her hangar bay as canon) but it adds some degree of credibility.
But speaking of the Akira: IMO the "Canon" definition is very tight. Not even the name "Akira class" for that ship is canon.
And the tighter the better, because the less things are established/prohibited by canon the more new author can add.
Canon is a double edged sword: On the one hand it gives the Universe some consistency and makes it feel more "real", on the other hand it can suffocate creativity like nothing else...
For the Nebula... honestly, I doubt production ever payed much thought into the question if she can separate.
Agreed.
Interesting theory...?
All images I have seen, seem to indicated that the Nebula is designed much in the same way the Galaxy is, with the nacelles attached to the engineering hull, like the saucer, just without the neck?
Well, here some contradictions from the first 2 pages of this thread...
Fan designs, but it shows it is POSSIBLE with the model.
The Sovereign, as far as I know and like we both stated, was meant to feature separation but for one reaon or the other that never was actually shown. I wouldn't mind if she could, also this would further shaft the poor Galaxy in STO
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The ugly whale II class, better known as odyssee, has separation too...
Also the Galaxy needs some love no matter what (which would certainly be more important then adding separation to the Sov), keeping that (already non exclusive) thing limited doesn't really save her.
Because Iconians.
Maybe we could borrow one of those borg cutting beams they are so fond of, they seemed pretty effective at slicing and dicing saucers.
Just throwing some ideas out there:
Tac: Styled as the current one, with the tactical torpedo/phaser beam array pod; replace the Lt.Com Engineering slot with a Tac, and give it another tac console. Give it some sort of torpedo spam ability to reflect the number of extra tubes it has, or the capability to mount the one from the Armitage.
Eng: Replace the pod with another couple warp nacelles, as was planned for the shows; give it saucer separation, and a 4th engineering console. Leave the boff setup as-is.
Sci: Give it the AWACS-style sensor pod as seen in the show, and the current console for the tachyon detection grid; swap the boff seating for a more sci-heavy setup.
Set bonus: +15% turn speed, +25% torpedo/mine damage, +15 to all science skills (not a huge buff; just a universal one, to reflect the nature of the ship's design).
Customization: Allow all customized parts from the Galaxy and Nebula ships to be used, aside from the Galaxy-X bits.
I would gladly pay for this, and the amount of work Cryptic would have to do on it would be grealy reduced from their other C-store ships, considering all they'd have to do is create the new pods, copy/paste bits of the Galaxy's upper neck/rear saucer, and deal with the coding bits for that and the console/boff setups. The rest of the ship is already there.
I realize some are set against this; I fail to see why, since it would only affect the people who actually fly the Nebula, and even then, only the ones who want to use the new stuff. What's wrong with having more options if those options don't break the game?