I'm agree with most..it's a nerf and a mistake. Lets take a look at this blasphemy:
"we’ve had to constrain our powers due to the fact that the most dedicated players would have all of them active at any given time. " -Yeah..that's a good thing, right? What's wrong with having eight active powers that you've earned working for you? Don't you want to keep "dedicated" players and not pander to the Silver leech? Yes..LEECH!!! The Dreaded "L" word.
"Ultimately, it’s been clear that the system as it exists on live is not infinitely scalable – if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one who’d spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together." - Wait what? We don't have 200 Rep powers first off which makes this an alarmist cowardly statement. It's meant to be different. A lvl 50 with 500 hours of game play should be more powerful then a fresh lvl 50 or else what's the point? Fresh 50, do your time and your grind like a man! Play together? This game is ENTIRELY soloable content to level 50! You never need the help of a single person to get 50 or rep marks!
"they’ve also forced players to make semi-permanent build decisions without regard for what type of ship they’re flying or what group role they’re trying to play. " -The ship we"re flying? Dude that means almost nothing since the skew isn't much. Engineer toons like mine can fly ANYTHING and still whomp TRIBBLE. Group role..lol..this ain't WoW. 5 Sci capts in any event is just fine for completing it respectfully. No idea what you're on about. Are you just making $#%t up?
"We want players to be able to use all of the powers they’ve earned, and we want to encourage experimentation and gaining a deeper understanding of how the game’s mechanics work. " - What? You plan on taking four actives away. Deeper understanding? You treat the mechanics math of this game like it's top secret material. There's no transparency.
"We recognize that this system revamp will cause some players to lose simultaneous access to powers they’ve earned" - Well, at least you're honest about the nerf.
"and not just a single “best spec” that people copy from a guide. " - What made you TRIBBLE this out? Do you really not know how MMORPs work? Classes have abilites and group roles. Said abilities of class have a optimization track in reference to the mechanics of the game and inclusive group position(IGP) <- I just made that up on the fly, funny I don't work for Cryptic?. Except for STO were IGP is non-existent. No group roles need ever be explained, required or filled to complete ANYTHING.
"What follows is a work-in-progress" -Yeah, tell me about it...
OK, time for "I'm rubber, you're glue" responses from the many sheep fanboys out there behind the keyboards.
Why not increase reward for EACH tier earned instead of tier 5.
I like the massive boost of Dilihtium and such from getting tier 5.
What if each tier unlock on each reward... had a bonus.
Perhaps not a massive dilihitum injection... but what about ONE free piece of gear... or Enough bonus marks to complete a project for one. OR crazy idea why not a nice bump of EC... or store points.
In LOTRO seeing as I have mentioned it when you earn a trait in game from doing what ever (killing 1000 of X or completing some exploration ect) you got a bonus amount of store points.
Perhaps
tier 1 unlocks... would reward 25 Cstore points + 1 million EC + 200 marks.
tier 2 unlocks... would reward 50 Cstore points + 2 million EC + 300 marks.
tier 3 unlocks... would reward 75 Cstore points + 4 million EC + 400 marks.
tier 4 unlocks... would reward 100 Cstore points + 10 million EC + 500 marks.
tier 5 unlocks... would reward Same as they do now.
Why not... it would solve the I didn't get nothing wine... and then the rep unlock would be just one more of the bonuses for unlocking the tier X part of the rep store.
As for not sleeping... I'm mixing a friends new disc for him today because I'm a super nice guy and I don't want to be working on it for weeks. lol I need the distraction... work argue work argue. Don't judge me.
I'm right there with you on the changes to passives being a pretty solid step in the right direction RE: Rep System, however, the above would pretty handily demolish STO's economy, and probably disrupt the Dilithium Exchange(a key difference between LOTRO and STO) so severely that the long term repercussions for the game could be... less than ok.
There's also the point to consider that much of LOTRO's general economy revolves around crafting, a thing (currently) all but non-existant in STO, and which even if it *did* exist, would not function in the same fashion on account of, by the Dev's own words, the best gear in the game being tied up in the rep and starbase systems.
Or, put another way, PWE giving away money? Did we wander into the Mirror Universe?
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
So are you going to restrict people with out rep from quing for those modes ?
It will be nothing different then E mode at some point. Perhaps that does fix the issue for now... with people complaining for awhile that noobs are quing for Nightmare mode when they should stick to E or normal. lol
However at some point say 2 reps from now.... That mode will also be to easy... and now you have to explain to a new Level 50... welcome to end game... now start at normal then go to E then go to Nightmare mode... and when that is to easy please que for Uber Nightmare 9000 mode.
What you are talking about i a band aid.
There are only 2 solutions I can think of.
1) Raise the level cap... and nullify everything you have purchased and earned gear wise.
or
2) Start dealing with the creep... part of which is this change.
I think everyone that is upset about this better prepare themselves as well... because this change ALONE doesn't get them to what they are claiming there goal is... so I would expect some more changes.
I think Cryptic is raising the level cap already. That will make all the gear obsolete. Eh, I dont really care anymore. Its a free game, dont look a gift horse in the mouth, even if its ugly as sin, its still free.
Though for the hard modes.....it could have a lockout requirement. Like it requiring mark XI purples or better, or a certain tier in reps....
Of course, a vote to kick function would solve that too.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I'm right there with you on the changes to passives being a pretty solid step in the right direction RE: Rep System, however, the above would pretty handily demolish STO's economy, and probably disrupt the Dilithium Exchange(a key difference between LOTRO and STO) so severely that the long term repercussions for the game could be... less than ok.
There's also the point to consider that much of LOTRO's general economy revolves around crafting, a thing (currently) all but non-existant in STO, and which even if it *did* exist, would not function in the same fashion on account of, by the Dev's own words, the best gear in the game being tied up in the rep and starbase systems.
Or, put another way, PWE giving away money? Did we wander into the Mirror Universe?
You might have a point... just one idea on reward... I don't think kicking people 30-50 mil EC after completing 5 reps would really hurt much economy wise though.
Still the point is they COULD add rewards to tier completion instead of just Tier 5.
Perhaps instead of Cpoints and EC... they just go with gear. They did that a bit with Dyson... and they will do something like that with Undine... so depending what gear the missions drop people will still do them even if they don't care about a silly passive.
Still nothing saying they can't sweeten this change for people by rewarding some form of Tier completion reward.... and make them retroactive.
So all these people wining that they have ground out 5 levels of 4 reps boo hoo hoo could be made somewhat happier perhaps.
It could be anything... it could even be "advertisement" style rewards... like what about some account bound lockbox keys. Chances are most people would open junk anyway... but sure perhaps the odd person pulls a lockbox ship with there free key and is super happy. lol
I think Cryptic is raising the level cap already. That will make all the gear obsolete. Eh, I dont really care anymore. Its a free game, dont look a gift horse in the mouth, even if its ugly as sin, its still free.
Though for the hard modes.....it could have a lockout requirement. Like it requiring mark XI purples or better, or a certain tier in reps....
Of course, a vote to kick function would solve that too.
Not sure a vote kick would solve that problem really... unless they are adding a flag over all our heads that says this is the level of rep I have and this is the gear I have loaded.
Last I heard was they didn't want to raise the cap... hey could be wrong though. Cryptic does some random things at times.
Not sure a vote kick would solve that problem really... unless they are adding a flag over all our heads that says this is the level of rep I have and this is the gear I have loaded.
Last I heard was they didn't want to raise the cap... hey could be wrong though. Cryptic does some random things at times.
Some people found voice lines recorded to Congratulate the Fleet admiral and the Dahar master, as well as mark XIV versions for rep gear, and Mark XIII version for rep dil store gear.
No doublt we'll see fleet Better advanced and better elite gear for 150k fleet credits and 50k dil....
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Some people found voice lines recorded to Congratulate the Fleet admiral and the Dahar master, as well as mark XIV versions for rep gear, and Mark XIII version for rep dil store gear.
No doublt we'll see fleet Better advanced and better elite gear for 150k fleet credits and 50k dil....
Well if that is true, that does sort of suck then.
All well at least I don't HAVE to grind all the new reps on my alts. haha
We'll see what they do on the level cap I guess.... I guess it is possible they don't touch the ships... we already have enough going not sure we need more console slots hull armor ect. Not like Cryptic to leave money on the table either though is it.
You might have a point... just one idea on reward... I don't think kicking people 30-50 mil EC after completing 5 reps would really hurt much economy wise though.
Still the point is they COULD add rewards to tier completion instead of just Tier 5.
Perhaps instead of Cpoints and EC... they just go with gear. They did that a bit with Dyson... and they will do something like that with Undine... so depending what gear the missions drop people will still do them even if they don't care about a silly passive.
Still nothing saying they can't sweeten this change for people by rewarding some form of Tier completion reward.... and make them retroactive.
So all these people wining that they have ground out 5 levels of 4 reps boo hoo hoo could be made somewhat happier perhaps.
It could be anything... it could even be "advertisement" style rewards... like what about some account bound lockbox keys. Chances are most people would open junk anyway... but sure perhaps the odd person pulls a lockbox ship with there free key and is super happy. lol
Universal Voucher for one Fleet Gear/BOff/Outfit/Whatever, would be sweet.
The 50 mil EC probably would be decent if the default assumption wasn't "limit everyone to 10, then make real cash off people selling Zen to people trading dilithium to buy cheap store unlocks like our EC cap removal."
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
I'm not opposed to change, but saying a 'fresh' lvl 50 should be the same as a veteran lvl 50 is crazy. There should be a difference and it should be earned and something to strive for. Rep is one of the things you can't buy your way through, it has to be earned.
It's just not infinitely scalable. As I pointed out in the blog, if we had 100 reps in the current live setup, the difference in performance between a fresh 50 and a "complete" 50 would be so immense they wouldn't fit in the same proverbial room.
Oh...I see... Typical gov't thinking... So it's not FAIR that new Vice Admirals don't have the same punch as Vice Admirals who have been grinding since Beta. So we punish everyone who has already been grinding under the current system by taking abilities away. Punish those who have worked hard to enjoy the game as they see fit to make it more FAIR...Great way to treat your long time loyal clients... What's next? A tax on energy credits or dilithium to give them to lower level players?...lol
Universal Voucher for one Fleet Gear/BOff/Outfit/Whatever, would be sweet.
The 50 mil EC probably would be decent if the default assumption wasn't "limit everyone to 10, then make real cash off people selling Zen to people trading dilithium to buy cheap store unlocks like our EC cap removal."
Ya thats true... I'm sure anything they did they would do with a eye on how people could exploit it.
A fleet gear token ya why not... hocks the 2 systems together only slightly. Encourages players doing one to contribute to the other.
Ya stuff like that the pushes there other systems on people I thnk would be doable.
They could even add a new "Reputation Gift" box. Perhaps every time you complete a Major project you could earn one. (the way Dyson gives you the gear box)... that Gift box could have anything in it from store gear... to lockbox keys... doff packs.... heck they could even make that part of a Weekend Bonus. Have "reputation weekend" where Rep marks are doubled. As well as Reputation reward boxes being gold all weekend... and having a higher drop rate of nice stuff... or even a chance to pull Lockbox ships or what ever. When completing a full tier it could reward Extra boxes.
So tier 1 completion could give 5 extra boxes... 2 could reward 10 ect.
Make that retroactive... and all the people that have full rep tiers now... could get a nice pile of boxes to open when things change.
System Designer Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton shares some of the new changes to Reputation Powers in this entry of the Season 9 News Dev Blog series.
Ultimately, its been clear that the system as it exists on live is not infinitely scalable if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one whod spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together.
Wait, I'm confused, is this your response to "the reputation powers are the only thing the system has going for it" is to gut its only selling feature based on an absurd "what if" scenario (200 reputation powers = decades, plural, of development) which is used to derive an even more absurd conclusion (that such a massive roster would influence anything but PVP) OR a response to people not buying respec tokens for 300 zen OR a response to people not using the vast majority of powers because, frankly, they're terrible OR some collection of all of those?
Either way you'd be better off making reputation's account wide so that players only have to do each one once and if you're really worried about PVP (ha ha, ha ha) just flag the skills so they do not work there (in fact you could arguably flag all of the passive buffs from accolades as well) as that people would appreciate.
But that whole account-wide reputation powers thing may be too much for some people to understand the user-value of. *shrug*
"We hope this will make the selection of your powers a set of interesting choices, and not just a single best spec that people copy from a guide."
With only 4 slots NOBODY want to waste a slot and so the next guide will come in use.
"if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one whod spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together."
Make the powers weaker not stronger. And you are NEVER be able to make ALL Powers equal, with only 4 slots there will be Reputations that nobody want because another is better. And old Powers will be discarded because they are no longer "best in slot".
By now, many Items from the Reputationstore are useless because something else from another Reputation are better and only the powers providing a little bit help, with your changes in the future whole Reputations will become useless and all the time building the Reputation up will be wastet, again.
"We hope this will make the selection of your powers a set of interesting choices, and not just a single best spec that people copy from a guide."
With only 4 slots NOBODY want to waste a slot and so the next guide will come in use.
"if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one whod spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together."
Make the powers weaker not stronger. And you are NEVER be able to make ALL Powers equal, with only 4 slots there will be Reputations that nobody want because another is better. And old Powers will be discarded because they are no longer "best in slot".
By now, many Items from the Reputationstore are useless because something else from another Reputation are better and only the powers providing a little bit help, with your changes in the future whole Reputations will become useless and all the time building the Reputation up will be wastet, again.
Wow ... that's a pretty big nerf for every player who has maxed out all reputation trees. However, let me guess, there will be fleet holdings in the near future in which you will sell us additional reputation trait slots for a hefty fee and an abysmal grind?
And then the "upgrade" won't work like the additional DOFF assignment slots too. After all the grinding, it will be broken and not reward the fleet members.
_____
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
I'm not opposed to change, but saying a 'fresh' lvl 50 should be the same as a veteran lvl 50 is crazy. There should be a difference and it should be earned and something to strive for. Rep is one of the things you can't buy your way through, it has to be earned.
And that's why they are doing it because of your last line. I bet they try to sell it in the C-Store additional slots thus another Pay To Win scheme.
_____
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
The other issue is some players just don't play ground or vice verse prefer ground so instead of making 4 ground and 4 space slots, how about 6 universal and you can mix and match
Ya thats true... I'm sure anything they did they would do with a eye on how people could exploit it.
A fleet gear token ya why not... hocks the 2 systems together only slightly. Encourages players doing one to contribute to the other.
Ya stuff like that the pushes there other systems on people I thnk would be doable.
They could even add a new "Reputation Gift" box. Perhaps every time you complete a Major project you could earn one. (the way Dyson gives you the gear box)... that Gift box could have anything in it from store gear... to lockbox keys... doff packs.... heck they could even make that part of a Weekend Bonus. Have "reputation weekend" where Rep marks are doubled. As well as Reputation reward boxes being gold all weekend... and having a higher drop rate of nice stuff... or even a chance to pull Lockbox ships or what ever. When completing a full tier it could reward Extra boxes.
So tier 1 completion could give 5 extra boxes... 2 could reward 10 ect.
Make that retroactive... and all the people that have full rep tiers now... could get a nice pile of boxes to open when things change.
I think that'd be pretty sane as it manages to: one, give a nice brownie to capped players; 2, leaves a nice carrot for new players to chase; and three, has a draw for weekends that fits with Cryptic's skinner box design principles.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Throughout the entire thread ive seen complaints and Ive seen suggestions which all were better than Cryptics solution.
Sure there are a bunch of players that like this change... that are mostly people which have just started playing and have not done the rep system on x chars. Such players easily can say "yes, im for this change" because a player who does not have something can not lose something.
The players which have played for years meanwhile and spent so much time working on the reputatin system in order to get the passives that they want are getting pretty much robbed now.
The developers say "we take away 50% of the abilities but make the remaining ones twice as strong so in the end you lose nothing".
Sounds good... IF it were true.
Reality looks different.
Great skills were replaces with other skills.
Next to that does that in no way include any skills that would have been introduced with the new rep system (undine).
Its been said that from the 16 skills ... 8 (traits) can be used then... but with the introduction of a new rep system there actually would not be 16 skills to choose from.... there would be 20.
Conclusion is that the devs are taking much more away then just 50% of the passives.
And with every new rep system they introduce this gap would be wider.
But ok.
The main question here is: "whats wrong with long term players being more powerful than newly started players?".
The simple answer: NOTHING!!!
Thats what these kinds of games are about... thats the principle behind every MMO -> char progression and development.
How comes that Cryptic suddenly claims that this is not ok while supporting exactly this key element of the game the entire time?
EVERY other MMO is based on these principles for ages and the developers knew what to do in order to balance everything -> introducing new interesting high lvl content.
HERE Cryptic clearly slept and the long term players which invested so much time and resources are now being punished for having played the game.
Cryptics strategy in the past was to throw more and more powerful ships on the market and now they are complaining why some people are too powerful? Oh cmon!
The only explanation we get on this topic is a weird comparison between a 500DPS player and a 40.000 DPS player and the try to tell us that the repution system is causing this?!?!?
WTF?!?!?!
Please, can any of the cryptic devs show us the math behind such a miracle?
Show us how 5% bonus on a reputation system turn 500 DPS into 40.000 DPS!
Cmon, we are waiting to see a mathematical wonder.
If you really do your calculations this way nobody here needs to be surprised by the fact that you meanwhile ruin this game.
Instead of releasing content thats worth to be played the only thing you managed to release with every season was the next best ship on the c-store that is even more powerful than all others before... more grinding stuff and less interesting content.
Lets face it... for such a big game with so many star systems and sectors there is barely anything to do other than playing the reputation system.
After all these years you have still not understood what the players really want... exploring interesting worlds... interesting game content... something worth being played and discovered.
May i ask what places like DS9, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa... are for?... I mean other than finding a mail console, a bank or an exchange there.
The entire STO world is huge... and it is full of useless dead places.
The game is a mostly lifeless uninteresting world... and you (the devs) are concerned about the reputation system?
Fine do your change to the rep system if you want... you will see that many old STO players (players which are paying for the game) lose interest in playing when you take away their chance to make improvements to their chars and ships.
You also will notice that less people will see the need to do the reputation system ... or at least they wont play all of the reputation system... no matter how much new stuff you will introduce. It just would not make sense playing through 8 different rep systems to unlock everything if the benefits stop getting higher then unlocking the first 4 rep systems.
And when people stop playing the rep system whats left for them to play?
Story missions? PVP?
Well the game does not offer much more for long term players... sorry but thats a fact.
Cryptic failed to introduce alternatives... like a gameworld thats worth to be explored.... places that are worth to be re-visited over and over again because they are fun.
No, that does not exist in this game.
Cryptic better should start thinking about if such idiotic changes like the limitation of reputation system lead to a better game OR if this just something that 0 effect other than making long term players angry (because this is really the case).
These changes are interesting but the limitation of only 4 space traits is really low. Many of us are using mixed builds. Now things are going to be quite simple - engineers will take all defense traits, tactical all OP 5% crit 20% severity and stuff like that, science will have to think how to balance the things.
The worst scenario is the level of comparison between new and old players. Speaking about myself, I lost a lot of hours to up my reps (like 90% of the ppl in the server), and I did this primary because of the space traits and very little because of the items. Now if I have to lose half this - it will be a serious nerf and fun removal.
A fresh lv 50 should feel like the "world is in front of him" - a lot of things to do NOT to take Omega/Romulan and up it to 4 fast to get its traits cuz "others sux" or something like that...
Very bad move...WOW removed the talents and created a lol "traits" per 15 levlels...now Cryptic why would u follow their example?
PS: Dont forget that a lot of ppl dont care for ground stuff or simply dont bother so much like other people...why would they care for 4 ground traits which they will never use comparing to 8 space traits they use every day???
when this goes live i see no need to do more reps. means much less grind, mission (re)plays and also time spend in the game.
powercreep may be a problem. but why should a 500 dps newb be able to team up with a 40k dps player? First balance teams, then balance content and scale the difficulty (and reward) to team performance. Then we would have some kind of progression and maybe filled queues again.
I know: But the engine ... . So better just continue to copy-paste bugged code and do just another fleet-holding, rep, one or two missions that are boring and frustrating when teamed up with lesser skilled players who are unable to contribute to mission success (and we will be very gratefully for it and play it 40 times per toon for grinding), put some more bugs in it and call it a new season (with amazing new content).
Sure there are a bunch of players that like this change... that are mostly people which have just started playing and have not done the rep system on x chars.
That's a pretty big assumption. I have seen the list of people that have supported this change... and I know a good number of them and they are long time players that have well completed reps and see why this change is good for the game.
I have 16 toons and the are all pretty much done or as done as I am worried about. I admit I have a few toons that I am fine with tier 4 on.
The other issue is some players just don't play ground or vice verse prefer ground so instead of making 4 ground and 4 space slots, how about 6 universal and you can mix and match
thats totally true actually
today you can decide to put all your skills on space because you dont want to play ground... after this change you are forced to waste skill options for something that you actually dont want to play
That's a pretty big assumption. I have seen the list of people that have supported this change... and I know a good number of them and they are long time players that have well completed reps and see why this change is good for the game.
I have 16 toons and the are all pretty much done or as done as I am worried about. I admit I have a few toons that I am fine with tier 4 on.
and I have seen an even higher amount of long term players which are totally against it
I think the big thing we need to do is, instead of sitting here screaming to the heavens, is to go on to TRIBBLE and test it on Thursday.
Of course, it's probably fair to assume many won't do that because, that way, you can continue sitting there complaining instead of getting a head start on finding out what you can or cannot do. Maybe it's NOT such a bad thing after all.
Comments
"we’ve had to constrain our powers due to the fact that the most dedicated players would have all of them active at any given time. " -Yeah..that's a good thing, right? What's wrong with having eight active powers that you've earned working for you? Don't you want to keep "dedicated" players and not pander to the Silver leech? Yes..LEECH!!! The Dreaded "L" word.
"Ultimately, it’s been clear that the system as it exists on live is not infinitely scalable – if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one who’d spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together." - Wait what? We don't have 200 Rep powers first off which makes this an alarmist cowardly statement. It's meant to be different. A lvl 50 with 500 hours of game play should be more powerful then a fresh lvl 50 or else what's the point? Fresh 50, do your time and your grind like a man! Play together? This game is ENTIRELY soloable content to level 50! You never need the help of a single person to get 50 or rep marks!
"they’ve also forced players to make semi-permanent build decisions without regard for what type of ship they’re flying or what group role they’re trying to play. " -The ship we"re flying? Dude that means almost nothing since the skew isn't much. Engineer toons like mine can fly ANYTHING and still whomp TRIBBLE. Group role..lol..this ain't WoW. 5 Sci capts in any event is just fine for completing it respectfully. No idea what you're on about. Are you just making $#%t up?
"We want players to be able to use all of the powers they’ve earned, and we want to encourage experimentation and gaining a deeper understanding of how the game’s mechanics work. " - What? You plan on taking four actives away. Deeper understanding? You treat the mechanics math of this game like it's top secret material. There's no transparency.
"We recognize that this system revamp will cause some players to lose simultaneous access to powers they’ve earned" - Well, at least you're honest about the nerf.
"and not just a single “best spec” that people copy from a guide. " - What made you TRIBBLE this out? Do you really not know how MMORPs work? Classes have abilites and group roles. Said abilities of class have a optimization track in reference to the mechanics of the game and inclusive group position(IGP) <- I just made that up on the fly, funny I don't work for Cryptic?. Except for STO were IGP is non-existent. No group roles need ever be explained, required or filled to complete ANYTHING.
"What follows is a work-in-progress" -Yeah, tell me about it...
OK, time for "I'm rubber, you're glue" responses from the many sheep fanboys out there behind the keyboards.
I'm right there with you on the changes to passives being a pretty solid step in the right direction RE: Rep System, however, the above would pretty handily demolish STO's economy, and probably disrupt the Dilithium Exchange(a key difference between LOTRO and STO) so severely that the long term repercussions for the game could be... less than ok.
There's also the point to consider that much of LOTRO's general economy revolves around crafting, a thing (currently) all but non-existant in STO, and which even if it *did* exist, would not function in the same fashion on account of, by the Dev's own words, the best gear in the game being tied up in the rep and starbase systems.
Or, put another way, PWE giving away money? Did we wander into the Mirror Universe?
I think Cryptic is raising the level cap already. That will make all the gear obsolete. Eh, I dont really care anymore. Its a free game, dont look a gift horse in the mouth, even if its ugly as sin, its still free.
Though for the hard modes.....it could have a lockout requirement. Like it requiring mark XI purples or better, or a certain tier in reps....
Of course, a vote to kick function would solve that too.
You might have a point... just one idea on reward... I don't think kicking people 30-50 mil EC after completing 5 reps would really hurt much economy wise though.
Still the point is they COULD add rewards to tier completion instead of just Tier 5.
Perhaps instead of Cpoints and EC... they just go with gear. They did that a bit with Dyson... and they will do something like that with Undine... so depending what gear the missions drop people will still do them even if they don't care about a silly passive.
Still nothing saying they can't sweeten this change for people by rewarding some form of Tier completion reward.... and make them retroactive.
So all these people wining that they have ground out 5 levels of 4 reps boo hoo hoo could be made somewhat happier perhaps.
It could be anything... it could even be "advertisement" style rewards... like what about some account bound lockbox keys. Chances are most people would open junk anyway... but sure perhaps the odd person pulls a lockbox ship with there free key and is super happy.
Not sure a vote kick would solve that problem really... unless they are adding a flag over all our heads that says this is the level of rep I have and this is the gear I have loaded.
Last I heard was they didn't want to raise the cap... hey could be wrong though. Cryptic does some random things at times.
Which is a whole other can of idiotic worms to open after giving us all the fleet stuff to progress through they then make us all have to do it again.
Some people found voice lines recorded to Congratulate the Fleet admiral and the Dahar master, as well as mark XIV versions for rep gear, and Mark XIII version for rep dil store gear.
No doublt we'll see fleet Better advanced and better elite gear for 150k fleet credits and 50k dil....
Where's the fun in that?
Well if that is true, that does sort of suck then.
All well at least I don't HAVE to grind all the new reps on my alts.
We'll see what they do on the level cap I guess.... I guess it is possible they don't touch the ships... we already have enough going not sure we need more console slots hull armor ect. Not like Cryptic to leave money on the table either though is it.
Universal Voucher for one Fleet Gear/BOff/Outfit/Whatever, would be sweet.
The 50 mil EC probably would be decent if the default assumption wasn't "limit everyone to 10, then make real cash off people selling Zen to people trading dilithium to buy cheap store unlocks like our EC cap removal."
Oh...I see... Typical gov't thinking... So it's not FAIR that new Vice Admirals don't have the same punch as Vice Admirals who have been grinding since Beta. So we punish everyone who has already been grinding under the current system by taking abilities away. Punish those who have worked hard to enjoy the game as they see fit to make it more FAIR...Great way to treat your long time loyal clients... What's next? A tax on energy credits or dilithium to give them to lower level players?...lol
Ya thats true... I'm sure anything they did they would do with a eye on how people could exploit it.
A fleet gear token ya why not... hocks the 2 systems together only slightly. Encourages players doing one to contribute to the other.
Ya stuff like that the pushes there other systems on people I thnk would be doable.
They could even add a new "Reputation Gift" box. Perhaps every time you complete a Major project you could earn one. (the way Dyson gives you the gear box)... that Gift box could have anything in it from store gear... to lockbox keys... doff packs.... heck they could even make that part of a Weekend Bonus. Have "reputation weekend" where Rep marks are doubled. As well as Reputation reward boxes being gold all weekend... and having a higher drop rate of nice stuff... or even a chance to pull Lockbox ships or what ever. When completing a full tier it could reward Extra boxes.
So tier 1 completion could give 5 extra boxes... 2 could reward 10 ect.
Make that retroactive... and all the people that have full rep tiers now... could get a nice pile of boxes to open when things change.
Wait, I'm confused, is this your response to "the reputation powers are the only thing the system has going for it" is to gut its only selling feature based on an absurd "what if" scenario (200 reputation powers = decades, plural, of development) which is used to derive an even more absurd conclusion (that such a massive roster would influence anything but PVP) OR a response to people not buying respec tokens for 300 zen OR a response to people not using the vast majority of powers because, frankly, they're terrible OR some collection of all of those?
Either way you'd be better off making reputation's account wide so that players only have to do each one once and if you're really worried about PVP (ha ha, ha ha) just flag the skills so they do not work there (in fact you could arguably flag all of the passive buffs from accolades as well) as that people would appreciate.
But that whole account-wide reputation powers thing may be too much for some people to understand the user-value of. *shrug*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
With only 4 slots NOBODY want to waste a slot and so the next guide will come in use.
"if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one whod spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together."
Make the powers weaker not stronger. And you are NEVER be able to make ALL Powers equal, with only 4 slots there will be Reputations that nobody want because another is better. And old Powers will be discarded because they are no longer "best in slot".
By now, many Items from the Reputationstore are useless because something else from another Reputation are better and only the powers providing a little bit help, with your changes in the future whole Reputations will become useless and all the time building the Reputation up will be wastet, again.
You hit that nail on the hand pal.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And then the "upgrade" won't work like the additional DOFF assignment slots too. After all the grinding, it will be broken and not reward the fleet members.
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
And that's why they are doing it because of your last line. I bet they try to sell it in the C-Store additional slots thus another Pay To Win scheme.
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
I think that'd be pretty sane as it manages to: one, give a nice brownie to capped players; 2, leaves a nice carrot for new players to chase; and three, has a draw for weekends that fits with Cryptic's skinner box design principles.
Sure there are a bunch of players that like this change... that are mostly people which have just started playing and have not done the rep system on x chars. Such players easily can say "yes, im for this change" because a player who does not have something can not lose something.
The players which have played for years meanwhile and spent so much time working on the reputatin system in order to get the passives that they want are getting pretty much robbed now.
The developers say "we take away 50% of the abilities but make the remaining ones twice as strong so in the end you lose nothing".
Sounds good... IF it were true.
Reality looks different.
Great skills were replaces with other skills.
Next to that does that in no way include any skills that would have been introduced with the new rep system (undine).
Its been said that from the 16 skills ... 8 (traits) can be used then... but with the introduction of a new rep system there actually would not be 16 skills to choose from.... there would be 20.
Conclusion is that the devs are taking much more away then just 50% of the passives.
And with every new rep system they introduce this gap would be wider.
But ok.
The main question here is: "whats wrong with long term players being more powerful than newly started players?".
The simple answer: NOTHING!!!
Thats what these kinds of games are about... thats the principle behind every MMO -> char progression and development.
How comes that Cryptic suddenly claims that this is not ok while supporting exactly this key element of the game the entire time?
EVERY other MMO is based on these principles for ages and the developers knew what to do in order to balance everything -> introducing new interesting high lvl content.
HERE Cryptic clearly slept and the long term players which invested so much time and resources are now being punished for having played the game.
Cryptics strategy in the past was to throw more and more powerful ships on the market and now they are complaining why some people are too powerful? Oh cmon!
The only explanation we get on this topic is a weird comparison between a 500DPS player and a 40.000 DPS player and the try to tell us that the repution system is causing this?!?!?
WTF?!?!?!
Please, can any of the cryptic devs show us the math behind such a miracle?
Show us how 5% bonus on a reputation system turn 500 DPS into 40.000 DPS!
Cmon, we are waiting to see a mathematical wonder.
If you really do your calculations this way nobody here needs to be surprised by the fact that you meanwhile ruin this game.
Instead of releasing content thats worth to be played the only thing you managed to release with every season was the next best ship on the c-store that is even more powerful than all others before... more grinding stuff and less interesting content.
Lets face it... for such a big game with so many star systems and sectors there is barely anything to do other than playing the reputation system.
After all these years you have still not understood what the players really want... exploring interesting worlds... interesting game content... something worth being played and discovered.
May i ask what places like DS9, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa... are for?... I mean other than finding a mail console, a bank or an exchange there.
The entire STO world is huge... and it is full of useless dead places.
The game is a mostly lifeless uninteresting world... and you (the devs) are concerned about the reputation system?
Fine do your change to the rep system if you want... you will see that many old STO players (players which are paying for the game) lose interest in playing when you take away their chance to make improvements to their chars and ships.
You also will notice that less people will see the need to do the reputation system ... or at least they wont play all of the reputation system... no matter how much new stuff you will introduce. It just would not make sense playing through 8 different rep systems to unlock everything if the benefits stop getting higher then unlocking the first 4 rep systems.
And when people stop playing the rep system whats left for them to play?
Story missions? PVP?
Well the game does not offer much more for long term players... sorry but thats a fact.
Cryptic failed to introduce alternatives... like a gameworld thats worth to be explored.... places that are worth to be re-visited over and over again because they are fun.
No, that does not exist in this game.
Cryptic better should start thinking about if such idiotic changes like the limitation of reputation system lead to a better game OR if this just something that 0 effect other than making long term players angry (because this is really the case).
Sadly that is probably all to true.
The worst scenario is the level of comparison between new and old players. Speaking about myself, I lost a lot of hours to up my reps (like 90% of the ppl in the server), and I did this primary because of the space traits and very little because of the items. Now if I have to lose half this - it will be a serious nerf and fun removal.
A fresh lv 50 should feel like the "world is in front of him" - a lot of things to do NOT to take Omega/Romulan and up it to 4 fast to get its traits cuz "others sux" or something like that...
Very bad move...WOW removed the talents and created a lol "traits" per 15 levlels...now Cryptic why would u follow their example?
PS: Dont forget that a lot of ppl dont care for ground stuff or simply dont bother so much like other people...why would they care for 4 ground traits which they will never use comparing to 8 space traits they use every day???
when this goes live i see no need to do more reps. means much less grind, mission (re)plays and also time spend in the game.
powercreep may be a problem. but why should a 500 dps newb be able to team up with a 40k dps player? First balance teams, then balance content and scale the difficulty (and reward) to team performance. Then we would have some kind of progression and maybe filled queues again.
I know: But the engine ... . So better just continue to copy-paste bugged code and do just another fleet-holding, rep, one or two missions that are boring and frustrating when teamed up with lesser skilled players who are unable to contribute to mission success (and we will be very gratefully for it and play it 40 times per toon for grinding), put some more bugs in it and call it a new season (with amazing new content).
That's a pretty big assumption. I have seen the list of people that have supported this change... and I know a good number of them and they are long time players that have well completed reps and see why this change is good for the game.
I have 16 toons and the are all pretty much done or as done as I am worried about. I admit I have a few toons that I am fine with tier 4 on.
thats totally true actually
today you can decide to put all your skills on space because you dont want to play ground... after this change you are forced to waste skill options for something that you actually dont want to play
and I have seen an even higher amount of long term players which are totally against it
People are self serving in general yes its true.
Of course, it's probably fair to assume many won't do that because, that way, you can continue sitting there complaining instead of getting a head start on finding out what you can or cannot do. Maybe it's NOT such a bad thing after all.