No you are wrong. We currently have 16 passives. (8 space and 8 ground right now)
The proposal is 4 space and 4 ground. They are doing this cause we will have another 2 space and 2 ground with season 9.
If they do this, they will be loosing paying members. If the passives are so useless then fix them don't remove or limit them.
No, you are.
Right now you have 16 passives from a pool of 16 (selected by a choice of competing pairs some quite a while back), and you have to PAY to change them.
New system you'll have 8 passives from a pool of 32, and you can change them for free outside of combat.
It's not that they're useless, it's that all together they're too much. In the words of Tim Gunn "you need to learn to edit". Even if you picked the best region8 in the current system, the worst 4 of those 8 will depend on your location. The passives that are best for ISE, aren't always going to be the best for the tower fights in Contested Zone or the current Mirror event, because the Voth Immunity Matrix hampering DPS while the multiple targets of the MIE.
One of my fleet has a setup that can handle a tac cube with ease, draining it and killing it. The first day of Mirror was the first time he'd blown up in 6 months, because it needed different skills.
Thats what this is going to enable.
And frankly, any 'vet' that can't adapt to this, and work out the passives to use when, isn't as good as they think they are.
Right now you have 16 passives from a pool of 16 (selected by a choice of competing pairs some quite a while back), and you have to PAY to change them.
New system you'll have 8 passives from a pool of 32, and you can change them for free outside of combat.
I
Actually, you currently have 16 passives from a potential pool of 32.
The distinction is important.
The current system has, at various points, choices between very attractive passives.
This was important, as a means of controlling power creep, as you could only choose one or the other not both.
The proposed system, as currently set up, actually gives you the ability to choose 4 out of 32 traits.
Which means, combinations of powers that will be imbalancing and OP.
Consider a science ship with max aux and both the Nukara T4 rep passives, not just one of them.
A simple solution would be to make the four passive slots we're to get tiered.
The devil is in the details of how the issues you raise are addressed.
I have no disagreement that there are these issues, but too many of these ideas wont actually work.
Hawks proposal, as you ably demonstrated, actually buffs min maxers while giving little to no extra power to new VAs.
Thus it simply fails to address the stated issue.
I can understand why PvP players in particular would like to limit universal consoles too.
However, if they were balanced properly in the first place, which would have been the opposite of 'super powerful', this wouldnt be an issue.
This whole affair cries out for a much more measured approach.
I say, run this on tribble, but dont transfer it to holodeck.
Not until all the rest of the balancing adjustments have been made and we can look at how it all works, not just one bit of it.
Because, while the aim is worthy, the approach needs some work.
And that IS what tribble is for.
Its not about giving up on creep control... it is about meaningful options. Yes if you limit people to 4 passives they CAN be stronger and not really effect balance. Yes I pointed out a min maxer could Push there max... but over all the build is still loosing something on the other end. People right now complain escorts tank to much or cruisers do to much dmg with no draw backs... well why is that ? Its because everyone can have EVERYTHING all the time with no real costs. Doffs do have a limit on numbers however perhaps the catagorizations need to be looked at. (and frankly specific doffs need adressed... tech doffs for example WHERE balanced when they where released becasue Aux to Battery was on the same global as EPTx... when that changed that doff became highly unbalanced)
As I see it a limited amount of everything CAN be balanced properly.
Yes I stated more powerful consoles COULD exist IF there was a limit on the number... if everyone was allowed One or Two powerful console options it balances itself that way. Where there could be 4 or 5 very strong consoles in the game... it balances because no one ship can run all of them at one time.
We have that in the doff system to a degree... with some doff catagories only being one of ... others being 3... the system needs a once over no doubt... still the idea is there in that system as well... some things CAN be more powerful be cause they are lmited. Most doffs that you can only have one of are VERY powerful and would be OP if you could slot 2 or 3.
Same logic COULD apply to a new console System. This is one way it doesn't 1) appear to be a nerf to people that like to Cry about such things.... and 2) it could make them powerful enough to entice sales for Crypitc... I don't want to see them not make money. Sure release powerful cosnoles all you like just don't give us a system where people are loading EVERY powerful cosnole released for 6 months onto one ship and making a joke out of the PVE content and a mockery of any type of balance in PvP.
General chat is much the same as the forums on this topic.
I have to say i seem to remenber a lot of people grumbling about the rep system when it was introduced and now people a whinging that its being changed...that is funny.
Seriously though they need to make this playable for the newbies because there the only ones who will spend lots of money on the game.
If you have been playing for3 years like me i dont spend any money on the game anymore. I bought a life time sub ages ago , have 9 characters,genrate more than enough dil that if i ever want anything from the zen store i just convert, have plenty of ec across my toons fro exchange etc. So the game costs me nothing.
So where do the paying customers come from?, the new ones...and that is where the game is at. I f it wants to be going in another 3-4 years then the need those people to stay a spend, so the game has to cater for that group.
I reckon everyone will get over it pretty quickly because it makes us all go back and look at builds and see what we can do to maximise our characters with what we have available, and if it makes it easier for new players to get set in the game, so be it.
The elitists will always cry foul when such changes are made, but they keep coming back to play.
General chat is much the same as the forums on this topic.
I have to say i seem to remenber a lot of people grumbling about the rep system when it was introduced and now people a whinging that its being changed...that is funny.
Seriously though they need to make this playable for the newbies because there the only ones who will spend lots of money on the game.
If you have been playing for3 years like me i dont spend any money on the game anymore. I bought a life time sub ages ago , have 9 characters,genrate more than enough dil that if i ever want anything from the zen store i just convert, have plenty of ec across my toons fro exchange etc. So the game costs me nothing.
So where do the paying customers come from?, the new ones...and that is where the game is at. I f it wants to be going in another 3-4 years then the need those people to stay a spend, so the game has to cater for that group.
I reckon everyone will get over it pretty quickly because it makes us all go back and look at builds and see what we can do to maximise our characters with what we have available, and if it makes it easier for new players to get set in the game, so be it.
The elitists will always cry foul when such changes are made, but they keep coming back to play.
But after reach level 50 have the reputation as it is and see the result on the older players is a good reason for some one to play a MMO.
If this reason is loss or reward bad for the hard work...every one will play less.
Also they put it as if its a impossible task to max out the rep system. It isnt, see it as the grind for level 60 equivalent.
We all want new players to come in and feel like they can play this game and have fun from day one right though to the point where after a month or two of building there toons... they are jumping into hard mode missions or PvP with long time vets and having a good time... and sticking around.
Aaaand congratz .
I think you've hit the point of this nerf on the head .
See, this nerf has (IMHO) nothing to do with PVE content .
Why ?
Because new players loose nothing by teaming up with older players in PVE -- older players with more advance Reps . Hell , they GAIN by teaming up with them .
The only reason this ruins PVE is that there is no Level progression in PVE .
You keep getting powers , but you keep not getting newer and harder enemies to fight .
STO's development mentality is broke ... and this is just one bore band aid to hide how bad things are .
PVP it's different ... yet it is the same (in a bad way) .
Because if we ignore the console cheese , and the uber rare Doff's that the new player has no chance to get (unless he cracks open his wallet big time) -- we still get to a point where some Rep powers will be at the end of specific Rep's , and Reps are the ONLY thing that new players can't BUY their way though ... -- which means that they will still be lagging way behind ... (in PVP) .
The game is not likely going to grow much more... I know I don't want to see it shrink away and slowly die. The reality is though this game is at that point in its life... it has peaked and now it is about maintaining numbers...
That's f-ing depressing mate ... , especially when it comes on the tail of "we've grown our Dev numbers" and "we've had our biggest success with our expansion last year" .
If the system stays as it is and creep just keeps running... STO will turn into EVE no doubt. A game where new players are a low single digit % of the pop. EVE has the long time players sold and they only loose a few players every month... STO doesn't have that going for them.
And from that , what I take away is that STO needs a change of direction .
Be that a complete systems revamp , be that a complete PVP system revamp , be that a refocus on content and a move away from the grind/event theme .
But we're not getting that are we ?
And EVE is not run by PWE is it ? It's not being squeezed like an orange for all it's worth with a crazy short sighted agenda (and development) ?
REALLY Bad idea Craptic. I guess i was proven right in the end. the rep system should have never been made if you are doing this. what was the point? I say scrap the whole rep system since it obviously failed. and recoupe in zen of everyone who invested resources in it.
As for power creep. maybe in Elachi weapons. My main toon is a pre S7 toon. Among his best ships is the free Sovereign which has the old omega weapons on it and the old borg set (still not happy with the set split i miss the sheild regen for her.) Thyat's mark 12 purple weapons is mark 10 to 12 consoles with a point defense in there. Now take a fresh 50 with their sovereign. likely mark 10 common or green weapons and consoles. I better be able to beat him.
Cryptic and have one simple sentence. DON'T DO THIS!
Aaaand congratz .
I think you've hit the point of this nerf on the head .
See, this nerf has (IMHO) nothing to do with PVE content .
Why ?
Because new players loose nothing by teaming up with older players in PVE -- older players with more advance Reps . Hell , they GAIN by teaming up with them .
But in PVP it's different ... yet it is the same (in a bad way) .
Because if we ignore the console cheese , and the uber rare Doff's that the new player has no chance to get (unless he cracks open his wallet big time) -- we still get to a point where some Rep powers will be at the end of specific Rep's , and Reps are the ONLY thing that new players can't BUY their way though ... -- which means that they will still be lagging way behind ... (in PVP) .
As Hawk said PvP and PvE mechanics are identical. If its bad in one place its bad in the other. Only difference is PvP makes it easier to detect.
Right now yes new players do suffer when teamed with older players...
Tell me when was the last time you pugged a PvE mission ? (ok its gotten better lately I will admit not that many new players at the moment I think is part of it).
I have many times seen People QQing in zone about X or Y player... Silly noobs why are you in X or Y ship why are you not Doing this or that. Vets can get nasty when they have to put up with some new players. lol
That costs Cryptic players as well... Just saying.
Truth is PvE is NOT in a good place.. Sure many of you are not complaining because you enjoy being able to get your missions done super fast.
Myself I HATE the new missions ... one of the biggest things that drives me nuts the 60s wait before everyone... why do you think they added that jem ? It was a lazy add by Cryptic because we where finishing things faster then we where supposed to.
I will glady take a 40% nerf across the board if I don't have to put up with 60s of doing nothing before everything I do. Might take me 60s longer in the end but at least I'll be playing and not waiting on artifical timers.
As Hawk said PvP and PvE mechanics are identical. If its bad in one place its bad in the other. Only difference is PvP makes it easier to detect.
Right now yes new players do suffer when teamed with older players...
Tell me when was the last time you pugged a PvE mission ? (ok its gotten better lately I will admit not that many new players at the moment I think is part of it).
I have many times seen People QQing in zone about X or Y player... Silly noobs why are you in X or Y ship why are you not Doing this or that. Vets can get nasty when they have to put up with some new players. lol
That costs Cryptic players as well... Just saying.
Truth is PvE is NOT in a good place.. Sure many of you are not complaining because you enjoy being able to get your missions done super fast.
Myself I HATE the new missions ... one of the biggest things that drives me nuts the 60s wait before everyone... why do you think they added that jem ? It was a lazy add by Cryptic because we where finishing things faster then we where supposed to.
I will glady take a 40% nerf across the board if I don't have to put up with 60s of doing nothing before everything I do. Might take me 60s longer in the end but at least I'll be playing and not waiting on artifical timers.
Players with nasty atitude wont change it tho due to be nerf down to a "closer level" to the new players.
This is a man kind flaw that if that is the reason for the change of the rep system...it wont work at all.
Also there will always be the 20+k dps aux2bat guy who dont give too much thot of the rep system as they are better in every aspect over even veterans who refuse to use aux2bat.
There will always be the life time sub guy with the best gear and exotic ships and consoles set...
In the end the lack of equalization of veterans and newbies will always be present... so the reputation could be a saving grace for new players, they could see that if they grind the rep they could be 1 step closer.
Also about the new missions wornup wait.. the mirror is clear due to the cutscene. But if players are finishing too fast...add a new dificulty to the current missions, veteran..
SO there is Normal, Elite and Veteran...
I start doing X or Y grind... and with in 10min I find myself watching TV.
The game is BORING... please nerf the heck out of my toons. It would be nice to find anything in this game challenging enough to deserve my full attention again.
I said it before , and I'll say it again : cookie-utter PVP .
Or as you've experienced it : PVP on T2-3 (preferably 2) .
Same playing field , uber low number of powers , slight variants to classes , no adding of powers of any sort , no Doffs , no consoles , no Reps , no "special Crit Boffs" , nothing but a leveled low brow playing field .
It might not be about Vape builds and consoles and acquisition and polish and tweaking builds -- but it would be about something BETTER !
It would be about FUN , and even better then that -- fun that ANYONE can join and be on the same footing .... -- yes , especially newbies .
The question is , is the current PVP community willing to go through that (?) and would Cryptic be willing to actually work on PVP on the long term .
(my guess is , no not really ... on both accounts )
Players with nasty atitude wont change it tho due to be nerf down to a "closer level" to the new players.
This is a man kind flaw that if that is the reason for the change of the rep system...it wont work at all.
Also there will always be the 20+k dps aux2bat guy who dont give too much thot of the rep system as they are better in every aspect over even veterans who refuse to use aux2bat.
There will always be the life time sub guy with the best gear and exotic ships and consoles set...
In the end the lack of equalization of veterans and newbies will always be present... so the reputation could be a saving grace for new players, they could see that if they grind the rep they could be 1 step closer.
Also about the new missions wornup wait.. the mirror is clear due to the cutscene. But if players are finishing too fast...add a new dificulty to the current missions, veteran..
SO there is Normal, Elite and Veteran...
Well lets all hope that things like tech doffs are the next thing in there sights. I think they have mentioned they are working on things like FAW... so I hate to break it to some of you guys. It is very likely with in the next few patches the 30k+ dps silly beam builds will likely be gone.
32 Passives, roughly half of which are defensive in nature, limiting players to 4 passives will just result in people choosing the best 4 damage boosting passives the majority of the time. I'd give people 4 offensive & 4 defensive passives, it's close to what we have now, but it caps the problem for the future.
The issue with new players is the gap in Crth, a fresh 50 is looking at 3/4% while a maxed vet is closer to mid 30's with double a fresh 50's Crtd, 1/3rd of the Crth is from boffs that cost 25+mill each. The fact that those boffs are still mostly limited to the Romulan faction is a major balance issue, and the cost is an even bigger factor.
ATB helps cruisers with limited Tac officer space more then it boosts damage, that is mostly down to the combination of Crth, Crtd & debuffs stacking into the negative, essentially buffing damage well beyond what should be possible.
Well lets all hope that things like tech doffs are the next thing in there sights. I think they have mentioned they are working on things like FAW... so I hate to break it to some of you guys. It is very likely with in the next few patches the 30k+ dps silly beam builds will likely be gone.
But that is the wrong thing to change as well.
FaW isnt the issue, it is the aux2battery with the techs.
Faw for who uses a cruiser without aux2batt and techs is the only competitive bof ability for run a cruiser.
Exept if the change to FaW is that aux2bat with techs wont affect it cool down ofcourse
I said it before , and I'll say it again : cookie-utter PVP .
Or as you've experienced it : PVP on T2-3 (preferably 2) .
Same playing field , uber low number of powers , slight variants to classes , no adding of powers of any sort , no Doffs , no consoles , no Reps , no "special Crit Boffs" , nothing but a leveled low brow playing field .
It might not be about Vape builds and consoles and acquisition and polish and tweaking builds -- but it would be about something BETTER !
It would be about FUN , and even better then that -- fun that ANYONE can join and be on the same footing .... -- yes , especially newbies .
The question is , is the current PVP community willing to go through that (?) and would Cryptic be willing to actually work on PVP on the long term .
(my guess is , no not really ... on both accounts )
Well we have been willing to do things like Tyler Durden. When there are enough of us playing regular. Honestly right now the majority of people that where driving that are playing other games right now... so I don't think we are running much. However when we where yes we where very capable of having a lot of very fun matches... with end game mechanics even. Granted some of the most recent changes have soured many.
I don't think Cryptic should be looking at PvP only fixes.... the issue right now is deeper then PvP.
If STO is Cryptics mine.... PvP is the canary. Its not big but the players dive into every mecahnic in depth pretty much first. When there are issues it is PvP where it is noticed first. That doesn't mean that because the canary (PvP) runs into the issue first it doesn't exist for Everyone else.
PvE is the real issue right now... Cryptic has slapped a lot of band aids on the last little while. They can't continue thought to keep releasing missions with Hard timers to keep people from going to fast. Really what is the point of trying in something like the current Mirror ? There is no point at all it takes the same amount of time no matter how well you do. lol Why was it designed that way ? We all know why don't we.
They do need to address the actual game mechanics... and yes that will benifit PvP... but that is NOT the reason to do it. Lets be honest most of the $ that comes in comes in from PvE people. At least that is how Cryptic sees it... but things are at a point where the bad mechanics are starting to shine through and I think Cryptic realizes it is going to cost them actual players and real $.
I'm very suspect of all these changes. Frankly it has a hint of the stench from "Enhancement Diversification" from City of Heroes.
So you want to battle power creep, but why only address rep? Certainly ships like the Jem Hader Attack Ship and others of it's ilk promote power creep? But I get it those ships are profitable. Addressing power creep in reputation traits only takes away from the most malleable of assets, players time. It feels like bait and switch to me ( again a hint to "ED")
If you really want to slow power creep and this is the only way then you have have to address the power creep head on. You have to scale back the DPS bonus traits and enhance other traits.
You talk about a new 50 and veteran 50 not playing in the same room.. the real comparison is the 3 professions. compare the dps potential of a Tac VS. and Engineer in space, same ship, same gear.... you will find the true gap and it is large. Sci's at least can take the long road to dps... All I fear this new system will do is focus the point of Tactical's dps spear and leave the other two classes less equipped to tag along.
But that is the wrong thing to change as well.
FaW isnt the issue, it is the aux2battery with the techs.
Faw for who uses a cruiser without aux2batt and techs is the only competitive bof ability for run a cruiser.
Exept if the change to FaW is that aux2bat with techs wont affect it cool down ofcourse
Sorry we disagree... Faw is a terrible mechanic.
Think of every other game you have ever played... and find one skill that works the same way FAW does in STO.
I KNOW devs from other companies find the very idea of a skill that works like FAW laughable. I know because I have literly listened to them laugh. lol
The skill itself allows for 100% skill usage... by that I mean every wepaon will be firing on a target for 100% of the skill up time. There are not gaps as there are no arc restrictions. It is a true 360 skill. The nature of that means power creep effects faw disproportionately. If an item or rep item for instance gives your weapons a +10% dmg boost... FAW spends its entire cycle time firing... so you gain a full boost. If you where using something like say CSV you Will not have a perfect 100% uptime on the skill on target. (at least not every activation anyway). This means you will NOT be getting the same magnitude of boost.
This is why yes A2B + Marion + any other Creep you want to list... + faw = Ra*e face time. Where as the exact same load out with cannons and scatter does not.
FAW as a mechanic is BAD Design... its one of the few true jokes of gaming.
Think of every other game you have ever played... and find one skill that works the same way FAW does in STO.
I KNOW devs from other companies find the very idea of a skill that works like FAW laughable. I know because I have literly listened to them laugh. lol
The skill itself allows for 100% skill usage... by that I mean every wepaon will be firing on a target for 100% of the skill up time. There are not gaps as there are no arc restrictions. It is a true 360 skill. The nature of that means power creep effects faw disproportionately. If an item or rep item for instance gives your weapons a +10% dmg boost... FAW spends its entire cycle time firing... so you gain a full boost. If you where using something like say CSV you Will not have a perfect 100% uptime on the skill on target. (at least not every activation anyway). This means you will NOT be getting the same magnitude of boost.
This is why yes A2B + Marion + any other Creep you want to list... + faw = Ra*e face time. Where as the exact same load out with cannons and scatter does not.
FAW as a mechanic is BAD Design... its one of the few true jokes of gaming.
But have all beams fiering at once cause a big power drain, where who doesent use aux2bat need to lose in many areas to keep the power up... or deal with the lower power.
Not to mention beams still dont do dps as dhc and turrets, that also is fire all weapons at once dhc+turrets.
And there is the cooldown, only faw3 work good realy, so if dont use the purple faw dofs or aux2bat the cooldown make it not that deadly.
And most important.. if they tune it down...they will either have to tune up the other beam abilities...or see many people leave.
But have all beams fiering at once cause a big power drain, where who doesent use aux2bat need to lose in many areas to keep the power up... or deal with the lower power.
Not to mention beams still dont do dps as dhc and turrets, that also is fire all weapons at once dhc+turrets.
And there is the cooldown, only faw3 work good realy, so if dont use the purple faw dofs or aux2bat the cooldown make it not that deadly.
And most important.. if they tune it down...they will either have to tune up the other beam abilities...or see many people leave.
I have pulled 40k+ DPS with out aux to bat with faw... so I don't think that is 100% true.
Sure People have pushed 60k+ with the right amount of debuffs with aux to bat I won't deny... its one more creep item.
Frankly what is needed is a FAW to be deleted ... because it is a laughable mechanic.
Cannon Scatter Volley. Needs to be reworked so that it works with beams or cannons... and it Can be renamed Fire at Will.
Problem solved on the mechanic issue.
As for Tech boffs... Cryptic simply needs to reverse one mistake they made previously.
Tech doffs where balanced when Aux to bat was on the same global as Emeregency power skills. At that point you could run One EPTx and One copy of Aux to bat and have no issues... and benifit from the tech doffs.... NOW you can run 2 EPTX 2 AUX to Bat with Zero down side.... which is why the numbers on tech doffs are now out to lunch.
I have pulled 40k+ DPS with out aux to bat with faw... so I don't think that is 100% true.
Sure People have pushed 60k+ with the right amount of debuffs with aux to bat I won't deny... its one more creep item.
Frankly what is needed is a FAW to be deleted ... because it is a laughable mechanic.
Cannon Scatter Volley. Needs to be reworked so that it works with beams or cannons... and it Can be renamed Fire at Will.
Problem solved on the mechanic issue.
As for Tech boffs... Cryptic simply needs to reverse one mistake they made previously.
Tech doffs where balanced when Aux to bat was on the same global as Emeregency power skills. At that point you could run One EPTx and One copy of Aux to bat and have no issues... and benifit from the tech doffs.... NOW you can run 2 EPTX 2 AUX to Bat with Zero down side.... which is why the numbers on tech doffs are now out to lunch.
There fine if they undo that one little change.
Ok so they dell Faw..
Now what to who dont use escorts or DHC. That is the thing, there is no alternative.
Also i like to make builds as the enterprise so i use 2 torpedos tube on foward and 1 aft. The best result with FaW3 and EptW3 i get is 13.5k DPS.
It is ridiculos to what most do.
So the issue isnt FaW, its the combo of everything aparently.
But we went off topic...its about the rep :P
As Hawk said PvP and PvE mechanics are identical. If its bad in one place its bad in the other. Only difference is PvP makes it easier to detect.
Right ... , the cool aid .
I'll pull two examples , and tell me how they have completely ruined PVE :
- The 5 sec pause between kirk-kick and kitty-claw-swipe that has been introduced to the Caitians-Ferasans because it was OP in PVP .
- The nerfing of the Rommy shield console ... (as we already have plenty of indestructible builds in PVE , both as hull and/or as shield tanks) .
Two nerfs out many .
I have claimed both here and on the PVP forums that the pVP crowd serve as the only serious QA that this game gets , and I stand by my word .
It's that sometimes , that can be a bad thing , as ppl buy stuff and get it nerfed later (or much much later , see the Caitians-Ferasans) -- at what players see as "at the behest" of the PVP crowd .
And just like the Foundry crowd (who championed the removal of the clicky missions , and now the nerfing of the loot missions) , ppl see the PVP crowd as sometimes working against the PVE crowd .... -- even if they are doing so only with good intentions (to themselves ... ) .
Right now yes new players do suffer when teamed with older players...
I'm sorry , but I just don't see it that way and I will never see it that way .
Tell me when was the last time you pugged a PvE mission ? (ok its gotten better lately I will admit not that many new players at the moment I think is part of it).
I consider myself an "old school" STO STF-er .
That (to me) means that I love to PUG (preferably through some specific channels like Public and Elite STF) -- but I have also refused invites to the XXXX K DPS channels because I see them as elitists who will not Pug with "the common ppl" , and as ppl who are responsible for the segregation of the STF community .
And those are the ppl I don't want to play with .
I have many times seen People QQing in zone about X or Y player... Silly noobs why are you in X or Y ship why are you not Doing this or that. Vets can get nasty when they have to put up with some new players.
Bad attitudes do shine through more in the queues , but less so in organised channels .
Truth is PvE is NOT in a good place.. Sure many of you are not complaining because you enjoy being able to get your missions done super fast.
Actually , no , that is not one of my motivations ... , but it is for those who post their combat logs in the chat after a match ends . And that's kind of sad .
But I agree with you that PVE is not in a good place , as there is no New Level progression in PVE .
You keep getting powers , but you keep NOT getting newer and harder enemies to fight .
STO's development mentality is broke ... and this is just one more band aid to hide how bad things are .
With each 2-3 Reps we should get a 10 Level progression as well , with harder enemies to fight .
But we don't .
Instead Cryptic keeps mucking about with the back end numbers and churn out very little (but very pretty) content .
In short , the 2409 calendar date is not the only thing that is not move forward in STO .
Ok so they dell Faw..
Now what to who dont use escorts or DHC. That is the thing, there is no alternative.
Also i like to make builds as the enterprise so i use 2 torpedos tube on foward and 1 aft. The best result with FaW3 and EptW3 i get is 13.5k DPS.
It is ridiculos to what most do.
So the issue isnt FaW, its the combo of everything aparently.
But we went off topic...its about the rep :P
No doubt don't mean to go way off on another tangent. I do agree its the stacking of lots of stuff you are right there.
To be clear though I wouldn't want no beam skills.... I would be in favor of FAW working like scatter volley does now... in fact I would change ALL the energy wepaons skills if it was up to me.
What I would do is;
Allow Scatter (rename it faw to keep people happy) to work with any energy weapon.
Allow Rapid fire to work with any energy weapon
Allow Overload to work with any energy weapon
Allow target sub to work with any wepon as well.
Unchain the skills from either or... and you open up a lot more interesting combos and builds... you really don't loose anything... and you can afford to take a skill like faw and remove it.
Funny, whenever there is a change in the game mechanic, suddenly people I haven't sen. in a long time appear on the forum and complain.
Is this something everyone complains about at first and then says It is not soooo bad anyway?
I have no earthly idea what this thread is all about anymore, I never done a Reputation, and so I will not support and play this game anymore and I will also tell every friend I have to stop playing this game.
Worffan, stop playing this game.
And I will also tell everyone in my Fleet to stop playing and tell my doctor that I have been touched by a Dev.
And I don't want an Undine Lockbox because.. well.. because... Ok I will come up later with something.
I think you really have to look at the negative influence of longterm power creep. Not just where it is now but where it will be when there are 20 reps. I think some variation of this is a necessary call if new players and veteran players are going to be playing the same content.
To Cryptic:
The big flaw I see with this change is that it makes some powers objectively better than others which makes some irrelevant since they have no use. If gameplay were diverse enough that swapping out traits on the fly mattered (and by this, I mean very diverse gameplay) then I could see your solution holding more weight.
As is, while the new system gives us a toolbox approach to powers, we don't actually need the variety of tools being supplied. It's like a toolbox full of universal socket wrenches.
I think a change of this magnitude requires further iteration and further tweaking.
My first reaction would be to consider the idea of having rep traits be slotted onto bridge officers and nerfing the rep space passives rather than having only 4 active at a time and buffing the rep traits. So the traits you aren't using can be active on BOffs.
Second reaction would be to look at something like having a resource pool for rep powers. Rather than slotting 4 passives, have all passives remain active but tie the effectiveness of them to something approximating ship power levels, with consumables that boost the "rep subsystems" that fueld the passives. So instead of slotting 4 out of 16, have it be that you could have 4 at 100% effectiveness, 8 at 50% effectiveness, or 16 active at 25% effectiveness. I realize this could be a nightmare to balance perfectly but "easy to balance" is invariably pretty constricting on player choice.
These are just a couple of ideas. I think one of the key issues across the board in the game is that player rewards and effort don't have a sense of meaning. Tasks have weak intrinsic motivation. This fuels complaints about grind. It fuels concerns over this change because it challenges the meaning attached to doing four reps as opposed to one or two. This is the kind of thing I wish I had an afternoon with you guys, a whiteboard, and some coffee and donuts on hand to discuss this with you guys. Not to lecture you because I have the answers (I know I don't) but because I do think I see a lot of the behavioral economics and narrative issues associated with the game's design and think jamming ideas with five guys in a room would be more productive than posting on page 105 of a bazillion page thread.
I think from a design POV, the focus is often on the extrinsic rewards (ie. the powers themselves) but becoming more powerful in exchange for effort is a separate issue from having more powers and is an intrinsic motivation issue.
Similar to this, a million dollars isn't a one dollar times one million. It is quantitatively but in terms of human behavior, a million dollars all together at one place and time conveys status and with that status comes a sense of narrative purpose. You wouldn't ask a million people where the $1 bill in their wallet came from but you would ask one person the story of where the $1,000,000 in their bank account came from.
Quantatatively and in terms of extrinsics, power creep is an issue.
Behaviorally and in terms of intrinsic motivators, power or status acquisition in exchange for effort is an issue.
These interests need to be better weighed. This is part of what I mean when I talk about narratives being key to game design but also where I separate story from narrative.
In the new system, doing the RIGHT 1-2 reps is the same as doing 20. This is GOOD from the perspective of capping extrinsic reward of veteran status and power creep. But is BAD from the perspective of providing intrinsic sense of satisfaction from gameplay, the feeling that effort = progress., the part of acquisition that is about the gaining and not the having, the shopping/purchasing rather than the owning/storing.
If I sound like I'm speaking Greek, I think Heinig could translate what I'm saying fairly well.
I am fine with this but think it brings the whole STO endgame into even more of a terrible state.
Right now the reps are the end game, they are it. There's nothing really past them. Other mmos you do reps to get things to help you beat harder content. STO you do the content to get the items for the rep and the rep unlocks to beat....? That would be the first issue I see with this.
The second issue I see is the question of if you only can use four then a lot of reps are now pointless. Why bother doing a rep if it offers powers that are useless? This also leads me to wonder if you end up with power creep in the form of each rep having to have better and better passives or people will just not do it.
Power creep is a problem because the content doesn't get harder. It stays the same while the players gain and gain more power. The game needs more content and it needs a progression path that leads to harder and harder content.
LoR is feeling a lot like Cata for me from WoW. Too much focus on new players, not enough on longer term players and keeping people. It's important of course to get new players but I would think it's important to keep longer term players as well and turn new players into long term ones as well.
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
I had to quote this, it literally made me spit my tea out all over my keyboard!
Ps. you owe me a new keyboard :P
On a brighter note, with being artificially limited in how many passives I can use, I now no longer need to bother with the Undine rep, as nothing in it is of value to me when you cannot use it...
Comments
No, you are.
Right now you have 16 passives from a pool of 16 (selected by a choice of competing pairs some quite a while back), and you have to PAY to change them.
New system you'll have 8 passives from a pool of 32, and you can change them for free outside of combat.
It's not that they're useless, it's that all together they're too much. In the words of Tim Gunn "you need to learn to edit". Even if you picked the best region8 in the current system, the worst 4 of those 8 will depend on your location. The passives that are best for ISE, aren't always going to be the best for the tower fights in Contested Zone or the current Mirror event, because the Voth Immunity Matrix hampering DPS while the multiple targets of the MIE.
One of my fleet has a setup that can handle a tac cube with ease, draining it and killing it. The first day of Mirror was the first time he'd blown up in 6 months, because it needed different skills.
Thats what this is going to enable.
And frankly, any 'vet' that can't adapt to this, and work out the passives to use when, isn't as good as they think they are.
Actually, you currently have 16 passives from a potential pool of 32.
The distinction is important.
The current system has, at various points, choices between very attractive passives.
This was important, as a means of controlling power creep, as you could only choose one or the other not both.
The proposed system, as currently set up, actually gives you the ability to choose 4 out of 32 traits.
Which means, combinations of powers that will be imbalancing and OP.
Consider a science ship with max aux and both the Nukara T4 rep passives, not just one of them.
A simple solution would be to make the four passive slots we're to get tiered.
Its not about giving up on creep control... it is about meaningful options. Yes if you limit people to 4 passives they CAN be stronger and not really effect balance. Yes I pointed out a min maxer could Push there max... but over all the build is still loosing something on the other end. People right now complain escorts tank to much or cruisers do to much dmg with no draw backs... well why is that ? Its because everyone can have EVERYTHING all the time with no real costs. Doffs do have a limit on numbers however perhaps the catagorizations need to be looked at. (and frankly specific doffs need adressed... tech doffs for example WHERE balanced when they where released becasue Aux to Battery was on the same global as EPTx... when that changed that doff became highly unbalanced)
As I see it a limited amount of everything CAN be balanced properly.
Yes I stated more powerful consoles COULD exist IF there was a limit on the number... if everyone was allowed One or Two powerful console options it balances itself that way. Where there could be 4 or 5 very strong consoles in the game... it balances because no one ship can run all of them at one time.
We have that in the doff system to a degree... with some doff catagories only being one of ... others being 3... the system needs a once over no doubt... still the idea is there in that system as well... some things CAN be more powerful be cause they are lmited. Most doffs that you can only have one of are VERY powerful and would be OP if you could slot 2 or 3.
Same logic COULD apply to a new console System. This is one way it doesn't 1) appear to be a nerf to people that like to Cry about such things.... and 2) it could make them powerful enough to entice sales for Crypitc... I don't want to see them not make money. Sure release powerful cosnoles all you like just don't give us a system where people are loading EVERY powerful cosnole released for 6 months onto one ship and making a joke out of the PVE content and a mockery of any type of balance in PvP.
I have to say i seem to remenber a lot of people grumbling about the rep system when it was introduced and now people a whinging that its being changed...that is funny.
Seriously though they need to make this playable for the newbies because there the only ones who will spend lots of money on the game.
If you have been playing for3 years like me i dont spend any money on the game anymore. I bought a life time sub ages ago , have 9 characters,genrate more than enough dil that if i ever want anything from the zen store i just convert, have plenty of ec across my toons fro exchange etc. So the game costs me nothing.
So where do the paying customers come from?, the new ones...and that is where the game is at. I f it wants to be going in another 3-4 years then the need those people to stay a spend, so the game has to cater for that group.
I reckon everyone will get over it pretty quickly because it makes us all go back and look at builds and see what we can do to maximise our characters with what we have available, and if it makes it easier for new players to get set in the game, so be it.
The elitists will always cry foul when such changes are made, but they keep coming back to play.
If this reason is loss or reward bad for the hard work...every one will play less.
Also they put it as if its a impossible task to max out the rep system. It isnt, see it as the grind for level 60 equivalent.
Aaaand congratz .
I think you've hit the point of this nerf on the head .
See, this nerf has (IMHO) nothing to do with PVE content .
Why ?
Because new players loose nothing by teaming up with older players in PVE -- older players with more advance Reps . Hell , they GAIN by teaming up with them .
The only reason this ruins PVE is that there is no Level progression in PVE .
You keep getting powers , but you keep not getting newer and harder enemies to fight .
STO's development mentality is broke ... and this is just one bore band aid to hide how bad things are .
PVP it's different ... yet it is the same (in a bad way) .
Because if we ignore the console cheese , and the uber rare Doff's that the new player has no chance to get (unless he cracks open his wallet big time) -- we still get to a point where some Rep powers will be at the end of specific Rep's , and Reps are the ONLY thing that new players can't BUY their way though ... -- which means that they will still be lagging way behind ... (in PVP) .
That's f-ing depressing mate ... , especially when it comes on the tail of "we've grown our Dev numbers" and "we've had our biggest success with our expansion last year" .
And from that , what I take away is that STO needs a change of direction .
Be that a complete systems revamp , be that a complete PVP system revamp , be that a refocus on content and a move away from the grind/event theme .
But we're not getting that are we ?
And EVE is not run by PWE is it ? It's not being squeezed like an orange for all it's worth with a crazy short sighted agenda (and development) ?
As for power creep. maybe in Elachi weapons. My main toon is a pre S7 toon. Among his best ships is the free Sovereign which has the old omega weapons on it and the old borg set (still not happy with the set split i miss the sheild regen for her.) Thyat's mark 12 purple weapons is mark 10 to 12 consoles with a point defense in there. Now take a fresh 50 with their sovereign. likely mark 10 common or green weapons and consoles. I better be able to beat him.
Cryptic and have one simple sentence. DON'T DO THIS!
As Hawk said PvP and PvE mechanics are identical. If its bad in one place its bad in the other. Only difference is PvP makes it easier to detect.
Right now yes new players do suffer when teamed with older players...
Tell me when was the last time you pugged a PvE mission ? (ok its gotten better lately I will admit not that many new players at the moment I think is part of it).
I have many times seen People QQing in zone about X or Y player... Silly noobs why are you in X or Y ship why are you not Doing this or that. Vets can get nasty when they have to put up with some new players. lol
That costs Cryptic players as well... Just saying.
Truth is PvE is NOT in a good place.. Sure many of you are not complaining because you enjoy being able to get your missions done super fast.
Myself I HATE the new missions ... one of the biggest things that drives me nuts the 60s wait before everyone... why do you think they added that jem ? It was a lazy add by Cryptic because we where finishing things faster then we where supposed to.
I will glady take a 40% nerf across the board if I don't have to put up with 60s of doing nothing before everything I do.
This is a stupid idea. I have worked hard for the reputation powers I have. Now I feel that I am being punished and have to start all over.
Who ever had this dumb idea needs to be FIRED, NOW!!!!!
Players with nasty atitude wont change it tho due to be nerf down to a "closer level" to the new players.
This is a man kind flaw that if that is the reason for the change of the rep system...it wont work at all.
Also there will always be the 20+k dps aux2bat guy who dont give too much thot of the rep system as they are better in every aspect over even veterans who refuse to use aux2bat.
There will always be the life time sub guy with the best gear and exotic ships and consoles set...
In the end the lack of equalization of veterans and newbies will always be present... so the reputation could be a saving grace for new players, they could see that if they grind the rep they could be 1 step closer.
Also about the new missions wornup wait.. the mirror is clear due to the cutscene. But if players are finishing too fast...add a new dificulty to the current missions, veteran..
SO there is Normal, Elite and Veteran...
I said it before , and I'll say it again : cookie-utter PVP .
Or as you've experienced it : PVP on T2-3 (preferably 2) .
Same playing field , uber low number of powers , slight variants to classes , no adding of powers of any sort , no Doffs , no consoles , no Reps , no "special Crit Boffs" , nothing but a leveled low brow playing field .
It might not be about Vape builds and consoles and acquisition and polish and tweaking builds -- but it would be about something BETTER !
It would be about FUN , and even better then that -- fun that ANYONE can join and be on the same footing .... -- yes , especially newbies .
The question is , is the current PVP community willing to go through that (?) and would Cryptic be willing to actually work on PVP on the long term .
(my guess is , no not really ... on both accounts
Well lets all hope that things like tech doffs are the next thing in there sights. I think they have mentioned they are working on things like FAW... so I hate to break it to some of you guys. It is very likely with in the next few patches the 30k+ dps silly beam builds will likely be gone.
The issue with new players is the gap in Crth, a fresh 50 is looking at 3/4% while a maxed vet is closer to mid 30's with double a fresh 50's Crtd, 1/3rd of the Crth is from boffs that cost 25+mill each. The fact that those boffs are still mostly limited to the Romulan faction is a major balance issue, and the cost is an even bigger factor.
ATB helps cruisers with limited Tac officer space more then it boosts damage, that is mostly down to the combination of Crth, Crtd & debuffs stacking into the negative, essentially buffing damage well beyond what should be possible.
But that is the wrong thing to change as well.
FaW isnt the issue, it is the aux2battery with the techs.
Faw for who uses a cruiser without aux2batt and techs is the only competitive bof ability for run a cruiser.
Exept if the change to FaW is that aux2bat with techs wont affect it cool down ofcourse
Well we have been willing to do things like Tyler Durden. When there are enough of us playing regular. Honestly right now the majority of people that where driving that are playing other games right now... so I don't think we are running much. However when we where yes we where very capable of having a lot of very fun matches... with end game mechanics even. Granted some of the most recent changes have soured many.
I don't think Cryptic should be looking at PvP only fixes.... the issue right now is deeper then PvP.
If STO is Cryptics mine.... PvP is the canary. Its not big but the players dive into every mecahnic in depth pretty much first. When there are issues it is PvP where it is noticed first. That doesn't mean that because the canary (PvP) runs into the issue first it doesn't exist for Everyone else.
PvE is the real issue right now... Cryptic has slapped a lot of band aids on the last little while. They can't continue thought to keep releasing missions with Hard timers to keep people from going to fast. Really what is the point of trying in something like the current Mirror ? There is no point at all it takes the same amount of time no matter how well you do. lol Why was it designed that way ? We all know why don't we.
They do need to address the actual game mechanics... and yes that will benifit PvP... but that is NOT the reason to do it. Lets be honest most of the $ that comes in comes in from PvE people. At least that is how Cryptic sees it... but things are at a point where the bad mechanics are starting to shine through and I think Cryptic realizes it is going to cost them actual players and real $.
So you want to battle power creep, but why only address rep? Certainly ships like the Jem Hader Attack Ship and others of it's ilk promote power creep? But I get it those ships are profitable. Addressing power creep in reputation traits only takes away from the most malleable of assets, players time. It feels like bait and switch to me ( again a hint to "ED")
If you really want to slow power creep and this is the only way then you have have to address the power creep head on. You have to scale back the DPS bonus traits and enhance other traits.
You talk about a new 50 and veteran 50 not playing in the same room.. the real comparison is the 3 professions. compare the dps potential of a Tac VS. and Engineer in space, same ship, same gear.... you will find the true gap and it is large. Sci's at least can take the long road to dps... All I fear this new system will do is focus the point of Tactical's dps spear and leave the other two classes less equipped to tag along.
Sorry we disagree... Faw is a terrible mechanic.
Think of every other game you have ever played... and find one skill that works the same way FAW does in STO.
I KNOW devs from other companies find the very idea of a skill that works like FAW laughable. I know because I have literly listened to them laugh. lol
The skill itself allows for 100% skill usage... by that I mean every wepaon will be firing on a target for 100% of the skill up time. There are not gaps as there are no arc restrictions. It is a true 360 skill. The nature of that means power creep effects faw disproportionately. If an item or rep item for instance gives your weapons a +10% dmg boost... FAW spends its entire cycle time firing... so you gain a full boost. If you where using something like say CSV you Will not have a perfect 100% uptime on the skill on target. (at least not every activation anyway). This means you will NOT be getting the same magnitude of boost.
This is why yes A2B + Marion + any other Creep you want to list... + faw = Ra*e face time. Where as the exact same load out with cannons and scatter does not.
FAW as a mechanic is BAD Design... its one of the few true jokes of gaming.
Not to mention beams still dont do dps as dhc and turrets, that also is fire all weapons at once dhc+turrets.
And there is the cooldown, only faw3 work good realy, so if dont use the purple faw dofs or aux2bat the cooldown make it not that deadly.
And most important.. if they tune it down...they will either have to tune up the other beam abilities...or see many people leave.
I have pulled 40k+ DPS with out aux to bat with faw... so I don't think that is 100% true.
Sure People have pushed 60k+ with the right amount of debuffs with aux to bat I won't deny... its one more creep item.
Frankly what is needed is a FAW to be deleted ... because it is a laughable mechanic.
Cannon Scatter Volley. Needs to be reworked so that it works with beams or cannons... and it Can be renamed Fire at Will.
Problem solved on the mechanic issue.
As for Tech boffs... Cryptic simply needs to reverse one mistake they made previously.
Tech doffs where balanced when Aux to bat was on the same global as Emeregency power skills. At that point you could run One EPTx and One copy of Aux to bat and have no issues... and benifit from the tech doffs.... NOW you can run 2 EPTX 2 AUX to Bat with Zero down side.... which is why the numbers on tech doffs are now out to lunch.
There fine if they undo that one little change.
Ok so they dell Faw..
Now what to who dont use escorts or DHC. That is the thing, there is no alternative.
Also i like to make builds as the enterprise so i use 2 torpedos tube on foward and 1 aft. The best result with FaW3 and EptW3 i get is 13.5k DPS.
It is ridiculos to what most do.
So the issue isnt FaW, its the combo of everything aparently.
But we went off topic...its about the rep :P
Right ... , the cool aid .
I'll pull two examples , and tell me how they have completely ruined PVE :
- The 5 sec pause between kirk-kick and kitty-claw-swipe that has been introduced to the Caitians-Ferasans because it was OP in PVP .
- The nerfing of the Rommy shield console ... (as we already have plenty of indestructible builds in PVE , both as hull and/or as shield tanks) .
Two nerfs out many .
I have claimed both here and on the PVP forums that the pVP crowd serve as the only serious QA that this game gets , and I stand by my word .
It's that sometimes , that can be a bad thing , as ppl buy stuff and get it nerfed later (or much much later , see the Caitians-Ferasans) -- at what players see as "at the behest" of the PVP crowd .
And just like the Foundry crowd (who championed the removal of the clicky missions , and now the nerfing of the loot missions) , ppl see the PVP crowd as sometimes working against the PVE crowd .... -- even if they are doing so only with good intentions (to themselves ...
I'm sorry , but I just don't see it that way and I will never see it that way .
I consider myself an "old school" STO STF-er .
That (to me) means that I love to PUG (preferably through some specific channels like Public and Elite STF) -- but I have also refused invites to the XXXX K DPS channels because I see them as elitists who will not Pug with "the common ppl" , and as ppl who are responsible for the segregation of the STF community .
And those are the ppl I don't want to play with .
Bad attitudes do shine through more in the queues , but less so in organised channels .
Actually , no , that is not one of my motivations ... , but it is for those who post their combat logs in the chat after a match ends . And that's kind of sad .
But I agree with you that PVE is not in a good place , as there is no New Level progression in PVE .
You keep getting powers , but you keep NOT getting newer and harder enemies to fight .
STO's development mentality is broke ... and this is just one more band aid to hide how bad things are .
With each 2-3 Reps we should get a 10 Level progression as well , with harder enemies to fight .
But we don't .
Instead Cryptic keeps mucking about with the back end numbers and churn out very little (but very pretty) content .
In short , the 2409 calendar date is not the only thing that is not move forward in STO .
No doubt don't mean to go way off on another tangent.
To be clear though I wouldn't want no beam skills.... I would be in favor of FAW working like scatter volley does now... in fact I would change ALL the energy wepaons skills if it was up to me.
What I would do is;
Allow Scatter (rename it faw to keep people happy) to work with any energy weapon.
Allow Rapid fire to work with any energy weapon
Allow Overload to work with any energy weapon
Allow target sub to work with any wepon as well.
Unchain the skills from either or... and you open up a lot more interesting combos and builds... you really don't loose anything... and you can afford to take a skill like faw and remove it.
Is this something everyone complains about at first and then says It is not soooo bad anyway?
I have no earthly idea what this thread is all about anymore, I never done a Reputation, and so I will not support and play this game anymore and I will also tell every friend I have to stop playing this game.
Worffan, stop playing this game.
And I will also tell everyone in my Fleet to stop playing and tell my doctor that I have been touched by a Dev.
And I don't want an Undine Lockbox because.. well.. because... Ok I will come up later with something.
I think you really have to look at the negative influence of longterm power creep. Not just where it is now but where it will be when there are 20 reps. I think some variation of this is a necessary call if new players and veteran players are going to be playing the same content.
To Cryptic:
The big flaw I see with this change is that it makes some powers objectively better than others which makes some irrelevant since they have no use. If gameplay were diverse enough that swapping out traits on the fly mattered (and by this, I mean very diverse gameplay) then I could see your solution holding more weight.
As is, while the new system gives us a toolbox approach to powers, we don't actually need the variety of tools being supplied. It's like a toolbox full of universal socket wrenches.
I think a change of this magnitude requires further iteration and further tweaking.
My first reaction would be to consider the idea of having rep traits be slotted onto bridge officers and nerfing the rep space passives rather than having only 4 active at a time and buffing the rep traits. So the traits you aren't using can be active on BOffs.
Second reaction would be to look at something like having a resource pool for rep powers. Rather than slotting 4 passives, have all passives remain active but tie the effectiveness of them to something approximating ship power levels, with consumables that boost the "rep subsystems" that fueld the passives. So instead of slotting 4 out of 16, have it be that you could have 4 at 100% effectiveness, 8 at 50% effectiveness, or 16 active at 25% effectiveness. I realize this could be a nightmare to balance perfectly but "easy to balance" is invariably pretty constricting on player choice.
These are just a couple of ideas. I think one of the key issues across the board in the game is that player rewards and effort don't have a sense of meaning. Tasks have weak intrinsic motivation. This fuels complaints about grind. It fuels concerns over this change because it challenges the meaning attached to doing four reps as opposed to one or two. This is the kind of thing I wish I had an afternoon with you guys, a whiteboard, and some coffee and donuts on hand to discuss this with you guys. Not to lecture you because I have the answers (I know I don't) but because I do think I see a lot of the behavioral economics and narrative issues associated with the game's design and think jamming ideas with five guys in a room would be more productive than posting on page 105 of a bazillion page thread.
I think from a design POV, the focus is often on the extrinsic rewards (ie. the powers themselves) but becoming more powerful in exchange for effort is a separate issue from having more powers and is an intrinsic motivation issue.
Similar to this, a million dollars isn't a one dollar times one million. It is quantitatively but in terms of human behavior, a million dollars all together at one place and time conveys status and with that status comes a sense of narrative purpose. You wouldn't ask a million people where the $1 bill in their wallet came from but you would ask one person the story of where the $1,000,000 in their bank account came from.
Quantatatively and in terms of extrinsics, power creep is an issue.
Behaviorally and in terms of intrinsic motivators, power or status acquisition in exchange for effort is an issue.
These interests need to be better weighed. This is part of what I mean when I talk about narratives being key to game design but also where I separate story from narrative.
In the new system, doing the RIGHT 1-2 reps is the same as doing 20. This is GOOD from the perspective of capping extrinsic reward of veteran status and power creep. But is BAD from the perspective of providing intrinsic sense of satisfaction from gameplay, the feeling that effort = progress., the part of acquisition that is about the gaining and not the having, the shopping/purchasing rather than the owning/storing.
If I sound like I'm speaking Greek, I think Heinig could translate what I'm saying fairly well.
Right now the reps are the end game, they are it. There's nothing really past them. Other mmos you do reps to get things to help you beat harder content. STO you do the content to get the items for the rep and the rep unlocks to beat....? That would be the first issue I see with this.
The second issue I see is the question of if you only can use four then a lot of reps are now pointless. Why bother doing a rep if it offers powers that are useless? This also leads me to wonder if you end up with power creep in the form of each rep having to have better and better passives or people will just not do it.
Power creep is a problem because the content doesn't get harder. It stays the same while the players gain and gain more power. The game needs more content and it needs a progression path that leads to harder and harder content.
LoR is feeling a lot like Cata for me from WoW. Too much focus on new players, not enough on longer term players and keeping people. It's important of course to get new players but I would think it's important to keep longer term players as well and turn new players into long term ones as well.
I had to quote this, it literally made me spit my tea out all over my keyboard!
Ps. you owe me a new keyboard
On a brighter note, with being artificially limited in how many passives I can use, I now no longer need to bother with the Undine rep, as nothing in it is of value to me when you cannot use it...
Thanks, devs! Now I can walk away from the rep system, and commit everything to my Fleet! WOOT!
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Bad move, Cryptic. But it's just one of several you've made leading up to Season Nine.