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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    is it truly abuse to KNOW how to BEST use FAW? Sorry but no it is not, if you can not crack it with FAW then oh well don't take it away from those that can

    I won't go to far into faw as this is not a faw thread... but the mechanics of faw itself are just plain bad.

    I remember having a conversation with a Dev from Bioware a couple years ago and we where talking about mechanics in other games. He hadn't really seen STO and I explained how faw worked to him... his response was silence for I am sure close to 10s followed by "really" followed by some more silence and then a "wow that is pretty darn bad design".

    You know its bad when Biowares PvP guys think its bad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    I don't consider noobs to be even be equal to newbies, newbies are just people who haven't learned the game yet, but are learning, noobs choose not to learn, and aren't worth the time or energy

    Thats what i mean, its those noobs that are whining about things to the point the devs nerf everything
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2014
    There Fixing what isnt broken is what i see

    overpowered ships.. need to lower power levels........Doffs out of control...consoles out of control is what i see as the problems

    Were getting a new ESD and a new rep system ...both not needed
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    I was kinda hoping that maybe they'd make it so you can customize your armor, Color-wise I mean... >.>

    that would be nice :)
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    Some people,(noobs), just dont like waiting like the rest of us have. They want everything handed to them on a gold platter :)

    Yes because building massive PvE dps ships is a herculean task. A feat of such grand achievement .... ah never mind.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • mike5ivemike5ive Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'm sorry you feel these changes are taking something from you. I assure you, this is not our intent. I completely understand why many of you are feeling that way, and I empathize with that feeling as a player. The one question I would like all of you to ask is, "If I were making this from the ground-up, with a blank slate, how would I make it?" Taking a step back from the emotional charge that comes from change, uncertainty, and different-ness, what would the best, most systemic, most fair, most consistent set of rules be for an alternate progression system that rewards participation in content?

    We think this new system is the answer to that question. As I've mentioned repeatedly, though, all of this is subject to feedback on Tribble, and in any case where our stated goals are not being met, we will work swiftly to make this new system meet those goals.

    Your lack of seeing that those who are maxed out on our reputations would be upset is astonishing. "We recognize that this system revamp will cause some players to lose simultaneous access to powers they’ve earned," It may not be you intent to take away something, but that is the way some of us see this change. Some of us depend on the passives that you are taking away, and the replacements that are listed in your blog are a 2% difference or very vague on how much. Is a 2% to going to keep interest in the reputation system? You always give this answer "please keep in mind, all of these are subject to change, following testing on Tribble." But how many of us have the time to spend hours on Tribble, to do a reputation system that has no meaning to our toons on Holodeck? We have to spend time on jobs that pay for the gold/lifetime memberships and zen, and on our lives. Having to do another grind so you can work out the issues in your new reputation system is very unappealing.
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The problem is that it would not put a stop to the power creep, just slow it down, which is completely contrary to what they are trying to achieve here.

    The best solution really is to here and now set the slots to 8 space and 8 ground.
    Everyone keeps what they have, and the power creep is stalled.
    And I honestly do not see how any rational person could be against that solution.
    That would be logical. No burn.

    The weirdest thing of course is that every fresh level 50 can acquire the full power of having all the reps completed in the current system. This really creates more...variety in the builds vs addressing any power creep.
    rinkster wrote: »
    Well, i'm not sure the active powers are the issue, ala power creep.

    and my thinking is this.......the active skill in a rep system represents your toons mastery of that particular enemy.

    Which means its intrinsic.

    The passive powers, they represent the toons growing understanding of the enemy and their ability to tweak their ship to better face them.

    Which means you can swap them in or out.

    And those active powers......atm two space, two ground. They're all situationally useful, but power creep? Nope. They're not the issue.
    Agreed.
    zardonfar wrote: »
    I'm confused by something.. Why is everyone complaining about "Power Creep"? Far as I can tell, all the Power Creep is coming from the Fleet Equipment and Zen/Lockbox ships.. Not from the Rep system.. Maybe over time, sure.. But right now the passive powers are a joke. I don't think anything stacks.

    After a great deal of thought and reading through the thread I do agree.

    Five fore weapon slot ships, and min maxing for crits cause for more damage than the reputation passives. The reputation passives are things that expert min maxers and PvPers use to squeeze that every last ounce of offensive punch out.

    The weirdest thing is that due to the fact that none of the rep passives altered my playstyle any great deal, I can't honestly determine whether or not they really affected how well my ship performs. On ground on the other hand I know instantly when the cryo module proc kicks in or when that great vanquish proc takes someone out.

    Just speaking perfectly equipment and abilities seem to make the most difference. I haven't parsed yet, but I noticed a staggering difference on my Assault Cruiser-R when I went from my purple MK XI Beam arrays, to one MkXII Dual Beam bank, to a Fleet Advanced MK XII Dual Beam bank, and two, then three, then four Fleet Advanced Beam Banks; in regards to how fast things die. And that difference increased even more when I went from using FAW1 to FAW3. Those few things changed my damage output far more than anything else I've done aside from maybe acquiring the MACO set for my ship. My engineer in ground combat wasn't a threat at all, until I actually learned how to properly use his powers and invested in the Enemy Neutralization kit. I know that the amount of damage didn't significantly increase when I gained new rep abilities but when I started using new Boff abilities and equipment.

    So looking at it through the lens of experience and after consideration I doubt that this change is going to stop a two year veteran from annihilating a fresh rookie Vice Admiral with a 40 or 80 to 1 level of damage output or durability.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You know its bad when Biowares PvP guys think its bad.

    Ok THIS was absolutely funny no two ways around it XD
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    I was kinda hoping that maybe they'd make it so you can customize your armor, Color-wise I mean... >.>

    More stuff they could be selling in there store instead of advantages of any kind.

    Ship skins / armor paint schemes.

    They proved with the risan event ship that they could do some pretty cool stuff that way if they wanted.

    You can't tell me people wouldn't gladly plunk down cash for a Camo Paint Scheme. Like every other game... the blacks and camos ect would sell very well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yes because building massive PvE dps ships is a herculean task. A feat of such grand achievement .... ah never mind.

    -.-

    I would hope you "never mind" PVP ships are freaking out of control and take the fun out of the game entirely for me sometimes when I do delve into the PVP portion of the game
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mattyou4 wrote: »
    m8 i thank you i totaley agree i pot my hart an sole in to dowing an gettting the PASSIVE perks from the rep's

    They're making all those perks you got better. More effective. They're just limiting how many you can equip at one time. But they actually improved all the perks. And you will have access to each and every one, while new players still have to grind them to get them.
    you dont hear us 1year players complaing about the RED MATTER CAPASSITOR witch is still in game an not been nerfed

    The exocomp DOFF and the batteries skill make RMC less needed. So it got "nerfed" ages ago.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yes because building massive PvE dps ships is a herculean task. A feat of such grand achievement .... ah never mind.

    See. now you do agree this nerf is stupid. Its all about ACHIEVING goals. Set a goal, get to it. But noobs dont like that idea. :P
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    robeasom wrote: »
    Actually I like the C store as it is, what your suggesting is adding another grind onto a game which has far to many grinds in the game to begin with.

    That is the point... you are free to PUCHASE ship credits in that system. Which means you can buy the ships for the exact same price you are buying them now... but by giving people that really are adverse to spending money a grind option you remove the "p2w" stigma from them.

    You also allow people to Half Purchase them by selling them Credit earning tokens. Just like they sell XP boosters... they would sell Ship Req Credit boosters.

    They would make more money... there would be more of the ships in the game... and they remove the P2W stigma from Cstore ships.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    that would be nice :)

    i agree with each new rep i was looking forward to some think new not just gear its the passive that help better my current build for me an most that have got all the best gear an goodies even dun AGT to do final tweaks the onley thing left to get better was NEW rep passive's i beg you don't change the way the passive are mother of f.king god PLEASE DONT DO IT ITS NOT WRTH IT
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    More stuff they could be selling in there store instead of advantages of any kind.

    Ship skins / armor paint schemes.

    They proved with the risan event ship that they could do some pretty cool stuff that way if they wanted.

    You can't tell me people wouldn't gladly plunk down cash for a Camo Paint Scheme. Like every other game... the blacks and camos ect would sell very well.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't make it a store buy, and there is no argument that they could make money from selling appearances, hell I DID spend some money recently to buy an outfit set that I had been wanting for a while (though I did wish afterwards it came with more options that it did -.- Formal if you are wondering). However I do not believe NUKING the zen store ships+consoles is the way to go yes I said NUKING not nerfing
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    See. now you do agree this nerf is stupid. Its all about ACHIEVING goals. Set a goal, get to it. But noobs dont like that idea. :P

    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    There Fixing what isnt broken is what i see

    overpowered ships.. need to lower power levels........Doffs out of control...consoles out of control is what i see as the problems

    Were getting a new ESD and a new rep system ...both not needed

    consoles=NOT out of control -.- for the love of- STOP SAYING THEY ARE
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    agreed consoles not out of control that is what gives us the flexibility an allof them can be gotton with some work
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    near as I can tell he hasn't once called you a noob :/
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    Just a FYI, i didnt call you a noob that time

    i said " noobs dont like that idea"

    Meaning noobs dont like the idea of achieving things like we do, so they whine about it till devs change it.............Wait, are you saying you been whining about the rep system? Cause i liked it as it was. Now all my work is down the drain cause of no thanks to the whining noobs :)
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    my point beaing now weall have to be able to fast costomise for each misshin taler for every inconter i dont cair that some are getting better things like the borg adapt mod is beaing removed borg ground is hardnoth as it is even with a ausom team an nowing how to do it an when

    by this change i can see more harm than good from it dont change it add to it like with all gthe rest TRIBBLE nerf just add somthink elce to compensate as all ways ......my main point beaing once somthink has been inplace for so long why change it now if ya gunna do that why not carry on an change the lot (the Galaxy - x the most advance **** in the federation) add more slots to all the ships so lesser ppl can add junk to just TRIBBLE ya of
  • durenasdurenas Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'm thinking what they REALLY need to do is add diminishing returns to crit and crit severity.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    Why aren't you pounding the table to get doff stacking nerfed? Or at least diminishing returns? Same for Trait stacking? You know there are way worse OP stuff causing balance problems then rep passives(not that the T4 Romulan placate was not annoying:P)

    Any while were at it - how about nerfing stacking of Romulan Boffs with Superior Operative? 5 of those is OP
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    -.-

    I would hope you "never mind" PVP ships are freaking out of control and take the fun out of the game entirely for me sometimes when I do delve into the PVP portion of the game

    I do mind. :) look at my Sig. I started Tyler Durden so we could have better non premade team matches. Right now the PvP community is pretty quite... but I am hopeful that a string of good changes could see things booming again. The games core is still great and it won't take that much to fix it... although it is obvious the pain of some of the needed changes is going to cause some ruckus.

    They announced today they are adding a No Team Que ... as well as removing FvK and just having PvP ques where everyone is teamed no matter faction.

    Both good changes... we would love to see them implement some of our TD innovations. One of the PvP communities smarter people Mancom has created a leader board which uses game logs to very accuratly rate people... he looks at DPS/HPS/Kill to death... as well as using some smart logic deductions to award "Style" points which account for things like Good use of CC in PvP. He has also created for us a tool which uses his database to help us auto team ourselves. So in TD we do matches where we take 10 people and we sort our matches out to balance the games. The idea is every TD match should end with scores like 15 14... and they do when we are running them. With mancoms tool http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/balance.php we can take 10 people and his tool will create for us a balanced game setup. So we don't get teams with all sci players or all cruiser.... and if we take a match with 4-5 vets or 4-5 new players the board balances them out based on scores and we end up with great matches.

    Cryptics changes today on tribble are great... but I hope they go one further... they could for sure do what we are doing manualy on the back end of things... all they have to track is a couple more numbers on our player database... and run one extra clean up script at the end of every match that tabulates Numbers for players and adds them to the data base average. At that point they could seemlessly use that data to Tyler Durden the Que and the balancing would be 10x better then any gear score type system they have been using in there other Cryptic engine games.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why aren't you pounding the table to get doff stacking nerfed? Or at least diminishing returns? Same for Trait stacking? You know there are way worse OP stuff causing balance problems then rep passives(not that the T4 Romulan placate was not annoying:P)

    Any while were at it - how about nerfing stacking of Romulan Boffs with Superior Operative? 5 of those is OP

    I agree... if it where my game everyone would I think hate me in about 2 patches. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    I'm not saying they shouldn't make it a store buy, and there is no argument that they could make money from selling appearances, hell I DID spend some money recently to buy an outfit set that I had been wanting for a while (though I did wish afterwards it came with more options that it did -.- Formal if you are wondering). However I do not believe NUKING the zen store ships+consoles is the way to go yes I said NUKING not nerfing

    Ya I am not saying remove that stuff from the game... really I wouldn't even be removing it from the store... just saying by moving things out of the store they remove the p2w stigma that goes with all that stuff... while leaving options to spend $ to earn it faster. This means people that just want to spend some $ and have something now still could... There would just not be that feeling of people purchased an advantage.

    As I have said I have it all I have dropped $ now and then and I still would... but I know plenty of people that DO NOT spend $ on Cryptic stuff out of spite. That would be reduced... and in the end they would make more money. I pointed out GW2 becasue they are one of the most profitable games right now... and perhaps per player the most profitable. They Don't sell any p2w and I think players reward that at least to a point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I agree... if it where my game everyone would I think hate me in about 2 patches. lol

    Hate you? No we'd just leave
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    Just a FYI, i didnt call you a noob that time

    i said " noobs dont like that idea"

    Meaning noobs dont like the idea of achieving things like we do, so they whine about it till devs change it.............Wait, are you saying you been whining about the rep system? Cause i liked it as it was. Now all my work is down the drain cause of no thanks to the whining noobs :)

    lol :) this is entertaining ins't it.

    Now excuse me I have to defend some more wine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Ya I am not saying remove that stuff from the game... really I wouldn't even be removing it from the store... just saying by moving things out of the store they remove the p2w stigma that goes with all that stuff... while leaving options to spend $ to earn it faster. This means people that just want to spend some $ and have something now still could... There would just not be that feeling of people purchased an advantage.

    As I have said I have it all I have dropped $ now and then and I still would... but I know plenty of people that DO NOT spend $ on Cryptic stuff out of spite. That would be reduced... and in the end they would make more money. I pointed out GW2 becasue they are one of the most profitable games right now... and perhaps per player the most profitable. They Don't sell any p2w and I think players reward that at least to a point.

    that, is surprisingly agreeable :/ however you did mention nuking the consoles, and I have to disagree with that, and I do not mean nuking as in getting rid thereof, but ruining to the point they are treated like the plague
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I did an analysis of this system as it would be approached by me creating a new character and doing all the currently known Reputations from scratch.

    Here are the results:

    Ground Traits
    Integrated Nanofibers (Dyson)
    Indomitable (Nukara)
    Medical Nanites (Omega)
    Regenerative Shield Augmentation (Omega)

    Space Traits
    Advanced Hull Reinforcement (Dyson)
    Fortified Hull (Nukara)
    Hull-Repairing Nanites (Omega)
    Superior Shield Repair (Omega)

    To acquire these traits requires Dyson and Nukara to be taken to Tier2, Omega to Tier4.

    Dyson and Nukara will be ignored after achieving T2 and Romulan won't even be acknowledged at all.
    Likewise, as a consequence, any other Reputation systems that are added after these ones will be ignored on the general principle that there is nothing to be gained by unlocking traits that cannot be used.

    So unless I specifically need one of the T5 sets (or other items unlocked by T5), I'm going to stop levelling Reputation at specific points because my goals will have been achieved with only partial progress.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
This discussion has been closed.