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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    that would be nice :)

    i agree with each new rep i was looking forward to some think new not just gear its the passive that help better my current build for me an most that have got all the best gear an goodies even dun AGT to do final tweaks the onley thing left to get better was NEW rep passive's i beg you don't change the way the passive are mother of f.king god PLEASE DONT DO IT ITS NOT WRTH IT
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    More stuff they could be selling in there store instead of advantages of any kind.

    Ship skins / armor paint schemes.

    They proved with the risan event ship that they could do some pretty cool stuff that way if they wanted.

    You can't tell me people wouldn't gladly plunk down cash for a Camo Paint Scheme. Like every other game... the blacks and camos ect would sell very well.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't make it a store buy, and there is no argument that they could make money from selling appearances, hell I DID spend some money recently to buy an outfit set that I had been wanting for a while (though I did wish afterwards it came with more options that it did -.- Formal if you are wondering). However I do not believe NUKING the zen store ships+consoles is the way to go yes I said NUKING not nerfing
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    See. now you do agree this nerf is stupid. Its all about ACHIEVING goals. Set a goal, get to it. But noobs dont like that idea. :P

    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    There Fixing what isnt broken is what i see

    overpowered ships.. need to lower power levels........Doffs out of control...consoles out of control is what i see as the problems

    Were getting a new ESD and a new rep system ...both not needed

    consoles=NOT out of control -.- for the love of- STOP SAYING THEY ARE
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    agreed consoles not out of control that is what gives us the flexibility an allof them can be gotton with some work
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    near as I can tell he hasn't once called you a noob :/
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    Just a FYI, i didnt call you a noob that time

    i said " noobs dont like that idea"

    Meaning noobs dont like the idea of achieving things like we do, so they whine about it till devs change it.............Wait, are you saying you been whining about the rep system? Cause i liked it as it was. Now all my work is down the drain cause of no thanks to the whining noobs :)
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • mattyou4mattyou4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    my point beaing now weall have to be able to fast costomise for each misshin taler for every inconter i dont cair that some are getting better things like the borg adapt mod is beaing removed borg ground is hardnoth as it is even with a ausom team an nowing how to do it an when

    by this change i can see more harm than good from it dont change it add to it like with all gthe rest TRIBBLE nerf just add somthink elce to compensate as all ways ......my main point beaing once somthink has been inplace for so long why change it now if ya gunna do that why not carry on an change the lot (the Galaxy - x the most advance **** in the federation) add more slots to all the ships so lesser ppl can add junk to just TRIBBLE ya of
  • durenasdurenas Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'm thinking what they REALLY need to do is add diminishing returns to crit and crit severity.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just FYI Calling me a noob over and over... is as effective as calling a balance change a nerf over and over.

    Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it so. :P

    I do hope that Cryptic has set some goals though and are going to stick to them... cause if that is the case I know this change won't get them there. So we can expect more balance adjustments. That makes me a happy customer.

    Why aren't you pounding the table to get doff stacking nerfed? Or at least diminishing returns? Same for Trait stacking? You know there are way worse OP stuff causing balance problems then rep passives(not that the T4 Romulan placate was not annoying:P)

    Any while were at it - how about nerfing stacking of Romulan Boffs with Superior Operative? 5 of those is OP
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    -.-

    I would hope you "never mind" PVP ships are freaking out of control and take the fun out of the game entirely for me sometimes when I do delve into the PVP portion of the game

    I do mind. :) look at my Sig. I started Tyler Durden so we could have better non premade team matches. Right now the PvP community is pretty quite... but I am hopeful that a string of good changes could see things booming again. The games core is still great and it won't take that much to fix it... although it is obvious the pain of some of the needed changes is going to cause some ruckus.

    They announced today they are adding a No Team Que ... as well as removing FvK and just having PvP ques where everyone is teamed no matter faction.

    Both good changes... we would love to see them implement some of our TD innovations. One of the PvP communities smarter people Mancom has created a leader board which uses game logs to very accuratly rate people... he looks at DPS/HPS/Kill to death... as well as using some smart logic deductions to award "Style" points which account for things like Good use of CC in PvP. He has also created for us a tool which uses his database to help us auto team ourselves. So in TD we do matches where we take 10 people and we sort our matches out to balance the games. The idea is every TD match should end with scores like 15 14... and they do when we are running them. With mancoms tool http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/balance.php we can take 10 people and his tool will create for us a balanced game setup. So we don't get teams with all sci players or all cruiser.... and if we take a match with 4-5 vets or 4-5 new players the board balances them out based on scores and we end up with great matches.

    Cryptics changes today on tribble are great... but I hope they go one further... they could for sure do what we are doing manualy on the back end of things... all they have to track is a couple more numbers on our player database... and run one extra clean up script at the end of every match that tabulates Numbers for players and adds them to the data base average. At that point they could seemlessly use that data to Tyler Durden the Que and the balancing would be 10x better then any gear score type system they have been using in there other Cryptic engine games.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why aren't you pounding the table to get doff stacking nerfed? Or at least diminishing returns? Same for Trait stacking? You know there are way worse OP stuff causing balance problems then rep passives(not that the T4 Romulan placate was not annoying:P)

    Any while were at it - how about nerfing stacking of Romulan Boffs with Superior Operative? 5 of those is OP

    I agree... if it where my game everyone would I think hate me in about 2 patches. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    I'm not saying they shouldn't make it a store buy, and there is no argument that they could make money from selling appearances, hell I DID spend some money recently to buy an outfit set that I had been wanting for a while (though I did wish afterwards it came with more options that it did -.- Formal if you are wondering). However I do not believe NUKING the zen store ships+consoles is the way to go yes I said NUKING not nerfing

    Ya I am not saying remove that stuff from the game... really I wouldn't even be removing it from the store... just saying by moving things out of the store they remove the p2w stigma that goes with all that stuff... while leaving options to spend $ to earn it faster. This means people that just want to spend some $ and have something now still could... There would just not be that feeling of people purchased an advantage.

    As I have said I have it all I have dropped $ now and then and I still would... but I know plenty of people that DO NOT spend $ on Cryptic stuff out of spite. That would be reduced... and in the end they would make more money. I pointed out GW2 becasue they are one of the most profitable games right now... and perhaps per player the most profitable. They Don't sell any p2w and I think players reward that at least to a point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I agree... if it where my game everyone would I think hate me in about 2 patches. lol

    Hate you? No we'd just leave
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    Just a FYI, i didnt call you a noob that time

    i said " noobs dont like that idea"

    Meaning noobs dont like the idea of achieving things like we do, so they whine about it till devs change it.............Wait, are you saying you been whining about the rep system? Cause i liked it as it was. Now all my work is down the drain cause of no thanks to the whining noobs :)

    lol :) this is entertaining ins't it.

    Now excuse me I have to defend some more wine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Ya I am not saying remove that stuff from the game... really I wouldn't even be removing it from the store... just saying by moving things out of the store they remove the p2w stigma that goes with all that stuff... while leaving options to spend $ to earn it faster. This means people that just want to spend some $ and have something now still could... There would just not be that feeling of people purchased an advantage.

    As I have said I have it all I have dropped $ now and then and I still would... but I know plenty of people that DO NOT spend $ on Cryptic stuff out of spite. That would be reduced... and in the end they would make more money. I pointed out GW2 becasue they are one of the most profitable games right now... and perhaps per player the most profitable. They Don't sell any p2w and I think players reward that at least to a point.

    that, is surprisingly agreeable :/ however you did mention nuking the consoles, and I have to disagree with that, and I do not mean nuking as in getting rid thereof, but ruining to the point they are treated like the plague
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I did an analysis of this system as it would be approached by me creating a new character and doing all the currently known Reputations from scratch.

    Here are the results:

    Ground Traits
    Integrated Nanofibers (Dyson)
    Indomitable (Nukara)
    Medical Nanites (Omega)
    Regenerative Shield Augmentation (Omega)

    Space Traits
    Advanced Hull Reinforcement (Dyson)
    Fortified Hull (Nukara)
    Hull-Repairing Nanites (Omega)
    Superior Shield Repair (Omega)

    To acquire these traits requires Dyson and Nukara to be taken to Tier2, Omega to Tier4.

    Dyson and Nukara will be ignored after achieving T2 and Romulan won't even be acknowledged at all.
    Likewise, as a consequence, any other Reputation systems that are added after these ones will be ignored on the general principle that there is nothing to be gained by unlocking traits that cannot be used.

    So unless I specifically need one of the T5 sets (or other items unlocked by T5), I'm going to stop levelling Reputation at specific points because my goals will have been achieved with only partial progress.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I sure it's been said somewhere in the near 1000 post before this. But please for the love of god don't double the shield bypass skill. Shield bypass is already too high. I don't even know why I run them anymore.
  • ktetchktetch Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's the former. Of the 32 total passives in your example, 16 are Space and 16 are Ground. For your 4 Space choices, you can pick any of the 16 Space powers. For your 4 Ground choices, you can pick any of the 16 Ground powers.

    Thanks, that's what I thought. Everyone's going on as though it's the other way (or so it seems).


    as I said earlier, I see it as a plus. I now get to prep ahead of time. up until now, on the rep, I've had to pick the side I think would help me more often (generally defense stuff). So I can pack on the defense stuff if I'm going to the voth towers, but the offense if I'm doing an Elite STF or colony invasion.

    All I can think of is that people have got used to 'set and forget' and don't want to tweak. We all currently have 16 passives, out of 16 (we pick em when we get em, and that's it) now I can pick the 4 (well 8) most relevant for the task at hand, just as I can do with my ships weapons and consoles.

    I see it as 'loadouts for the rep-buff'. Everyone liked the loadouts, and the quicker ship change, I just don't get why they are against this, even though they can now slot from out of all 32 (or at least - I'm guessing they're still either/or pairs so you can't do both nukara tier 4 buffs at once - from choices of all 32 each with a mutually exclusive counterpart) rather than just the 16 they picked whenever.

    Or, it's just a vocal few afraid that with more choice they're going to make the wrong one.
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tilarta wrote: »
    I did an analysis of this system as it would be approached by me creating a new character and doing all the currently known Reputations from scratch.

    Here are the results:

    Ground Traits
    Integrated Nanofibers (Dyson)
    Indomitable (Nukara)
    Medical Nanites (Omega)
    Regenerative Shield Augmentation (Omega)

    Space Traits
    Advanced Hull Reinforcement (Dyson)
    Fortified Hull (Nukara)
    Hull-Repairing Nanites (Omega)
    Superior Shield Repair (Omega)

    To acquire these traits requires Dyson and Nukara to be taken to Tier2, Omega to Tier4.

    Dyson and Nukara will be ignored after achieving T2 and Romulan won't even be acknowledged at all.
    Likewise, as a consequence, any other Reputation systems that are added after these ones will be ignored on the general principle that there is nothing to be gained by unlocking traits that cannot be used.

    So unless I specifically need one of the T5 sets (or other items unlocked by T5), I'm going to stop levelling Reputation at specific points because my goals will have been achieved with only partial progress.


    wile not the exact skills pretty much this. saves me time and resources thanks cryptic i no longer have to suffer through rep grinds :D
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! My power creep! Give it back you meanies!

    lol
    I've seen a number of people call this change out specifically, we'll take another look at it or at the base adapt mechanic.

    Thank you sir. I never actually took that passive on my main character that has reps finished but I was considering a respec to do so. Now I won't be able to unless you revert it. Of course if you instead tweak the adapt mechanic I won't need to (full auto weapons are still pretty useless even after the adapt tweak from long ago).

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    that, is surprisingly agreeable :/ however you did mention nuking the consoles, and I have to disagree with that, and I do not mean nuking as in getting rid thereof, but ruining to the point they are treated like the plague

    Not the plague... I think it should be encouraged... what needs to be stopped is the LOADING of those types of consoles.

    I think I had said remove one Console from every ship... and replace it with 2 Universal only console slots.

    This would mean any console people got out of a lockbox or with there Cstore ships (or hey my new Ship Requisition Tab) would almost be encouraged... but you wouldn't be able to use more then 2 at one time.

    By all menas load your Plasmotic leech consoles... load your AMS or ISO. No issues.... just lets stop the insane levels of it where right now people are loading 6 7 8 Universal consoles at times.

    For everyone right now my system would give you ONE FREE new slot you didn't have before. :)

    The only issue really would be some of the ship packs with 3 consoles... but that is easily fixed, by making 2 of the 3 and perhaps even all 3 of them specific console types... Be that Engi Sci or tac... which ever makes most sense I guess.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    Hate you? No we'd just leave

    I think antoniosalieri is under the false hope that they will do something about the games main balance problems which are:

    1)Op Romulans with 30% crit chance

    2) 3 purple tech doffs - and Aux to Battery - reducing boff powers almost to global and giving some abilities almost 100% uptime

    3)Trait stacking - also removing the cool downs on boff powers

    4)Fire at Will basically hitting every target in a 360 arc for the full 10km of weapons range - combined with OP romulan Crit chance + OP doffs + OP traits giving close to full uptime

    Most of these things are acquired by new players via Pay - to - win vs the Rep system which you have to put in some time.

    I think Anto is dreaming if he believes they will remove the pay to win part of the problem - this is not been Cryptic's/PWE modus operandi - continued release of new OP doffs/traits/lock box ships and consoles is their strategy.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tilarta wrote: »
    So unless I specifically need one of the T5 sets (or other items unlocked by T5), I'm going to stop levelling Reputation at specific points because my goals will have been achieved with only partial progress.

    So you will be REQUIRED to do less grind to play that toon the way you would like. How is that bad ?

    If you roll another class toon you may see value in other reps... or future ones.

    If you fly a different ship again you may find value in those other traits. IF not don't do them less grind who looses there ?

    As far as set unlocks... in the talks in regards to the upcoming changes to the borg set... they have stated they are planning to give most of the sets a once over to make all the sets more attractive as actual options people will want. They included in that list the Romulan and Reman sets.

    The passives should be perks... the real bonus should be unlocking the Gear. IMO
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Not the plague... I think it should be encouraged... what needs to be stopped is the LOADING of those types of consoles.
    I think I had said remove one Console from every ship... and replace it with 2 Universal only console slots.

    fail instantly, if you had said 3 MAYBE I could agree with you--personally though I prefer FOUR--but certain console sets come in THREE, not two, so no there is no way I can agree with you
    For everyone right now my system would give you ONE FREE new slot you didn't have before. :)

    The only issue really would be some of the ship packs with 3 consoles... but that is easily fixed, by making 2 of the 3 and perhaps even all 3 of them specific console types... Be that Engi Sci or tac... which ever makes most sense I guess.

    -.-

    No this falls under the "Not broken, don't fix it" rule
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • captainbaileycaptainbailey Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's the former. Of the 32 total passives in your example, 16 are Space and 16 are Ground. For your 4 Space choices, you can pick any of the 16 Space powers. For your 4 Ground choices, you can pick any of the 16 Ground powers.

    There are many people who have specialized toons just for space or ground where thier skills, captain traits, rep passives, etc are all space or ground centered. Currently, under the old system this was allowed. With captain traits i can choose to go with full space or ground traits if i wish. Then, with rep passives i got to choose 2 of the 4 (space or ground) traits that the rep system had to offer, currently 8 out of 16 total, etc making the toon specialized for combat in one arena.

    However, with this proposed change you are FORCING me to chose at least 4 ground traits and 4 space traits at all times, cutting in half my already selected passives and FORCING me to choose passives of no use. This is a NERF. This destroys the ability for people to make specialized toons for combat in one area.

    Why not make it that i can choose ANY 8 passive rep traits i see fit (space and/or ground). That way people can still make specialized toons. Also, people can keep the specialized toons they already have.

    Cryptic you need to remember that veterans have spent countless hours grinding out the rep to get these passives, to make these toons, to get the gear, etc and to strip it away is just wrong.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think Anto is dreaming if he believes they will remove the pay to win part of the problem - this is not been Cryptic's/PWE modus operandi - continued release of new OP doffs/traits/lock box ships and consoles is their strategy.

    Oh I am aware that I am dreaming.... they will likely never do what is needed. Yes I agree with the list you added... and my dream wouldn't end there. ;)

    I know Cryptic has it wrong... having said that they did honestly shock me today with an actual balance change that will in fact be good for the game...

    Which means tomorrow they are likely to post a... just kidden man don't get mad we changed our minds. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Oh I am aware that I am dreaming.... they will likely never do what is needed. Yes I agree with the list you added... and my dream wouldn't end there. ;)

    I know Cryptic has it wrong... having said that they did honestly shock me today with an actual balance change that will in fact be good for the game...

    Which means tomorrow they are likely to post a... just kidden man don't get mad we changed our minds. lol

    it's not April first yet
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    zardonfar wrote: »
    The idea is good.. If it was implemented with the second Reputation.. Now that we have four Reputation, you are punishing the players who have been using this setup since it came out.

    Either x4 all the bonuses or allow 8 passive traits for Space/Ground....

    But just like past nerfs, I'm sure I'm just speaking into the wind....

    Haha, no. The idea is to reduce the amount of power any one player can have available. And its not punishing anyone. You'd have to go through the entire rep grind anyway to get the stronger powers and the store unlocks, and you can go in and respect for free. And they doubled most of the effects, and others were changed to give straight damage and resistance bonuses, instead of adding it to one of your skills. It's actually one of the best updates I've seen in a while. Yes, you're going to lose a small amount of power over all, but this will force players to be more creative and allow them to bring out more of their ships potential. You could theoretically take a trait from each rep and be consistent with what you're boosting, and can go back and change it at any time to suit you and your current mission.
  • trwarbucktrwarbuck Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I can see the complains coming in now. Come on PWE don't change a system that isn't broken. Gamers chose the Reputation abilities for a reason.
    The way you have it we are going to be losing half of our Reputation abilities with this change. That is unless this line: "All players will have four slots for passive Ground powers, four slots for passive Space powers, and four slots for Active powers." is for each Reputation area (Nukara, New Romulus, Dyson, Omega and Undine).
    The only way that you will avoid the complaints is to give 1 slot per Reputation area as the player advances the character (toon) up through the Reputation area's tiers. This would have a character ending up with 5 Tier 1 ground abilities, 5 Tier 2 space abilities,5 Tier 3 ground abilities,5 Tier 4 space abilities, and then the Tier 5 abilities. The bank of abilities to chose from should be double from what they currently are.
    There would be no need to give a 50% increase in the abilities bonuses, and no reason to give a player the option of exchanging the Reputation abilities when they are between combat situations. What they chose is what they are stuck with unless they spend the free exchange token they get as they advanced through the Reputation system or purchase more tokens to change out their powers.
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