What fallacy am I failing to see? I mean my whole post is just conjecture on what it is I think might be their corporate enforced goals. I could be way off. But PWE probably has a few guidelines that the folks at Cryptic have to incorporate into the work they do. It wouldn't surprise me if one of those goals was continued design decisions that cater to the new player experience.
Always get new players who will hopefully buy lots of shinies...when they have purchased the shinies and realize the max level content of the game is junk highly repetitive grinds.
All I'm going to say is this game is far different than other MMOs in terms of its ability to sell shinies.
In a fantasy MMO it's like "Ooooh a sparkly sword, black and red armor with a glow, and a flying horsie that snorts fire!"
That is pretty short term ooh and ahh.
This game?
It's Star Trek.
There are people who bought the Oberth.
THE OBERTH.
Let that sink in.
Spend some time this year going to a Star Trek convention. Check the prices on some old Mego action figures. Then watch someone pay those prices. Because it's TREK!
The bread and butter of this game has always been the store. Because people are buying Star Trek collectibles. And then playing them in the game.
That's a very different dynamic than, say, even Neverwinter Online.
Folks bought Pakleds as a playable race back before the F2P conversion.
This whole thing feels to me like they had it in the works, and the timing is more an issue of this is finally the rep addition that would make it a problem so now's the time for it.
I can agree with that. Unfortunately, there are some things that 'timing was an issue' is a good excuse for.
Rep grinds knowingly being one of the most persistent complaints about the game and saying 'timing was an issue' shows apathy to the players.
This isn't a bit of an error. This is what I'd consider a faux pas.
There is a big fix to that built into this system though.
Lets say you so the Undine Rep and then decide to leave STO and go play SC or something else.
Now 6-7 months pass and you decide you miss Trek and STO... and SC isn't what you hoped so you come back.
Now you been gone and you have missed Telaxian / Vidian / and Vulcan Reputations.
So all your previous MAX rep toons are now only done 5 of the 8 Reps.
Everyone else just started the new Savior of Vulcan missions and guess what.... you can jump right in and join in because you already have enough unlocks to be able to continue to compete... and you don't feel like you have to grind 24h a day to catch up on the previous reps you missed.... Heck you might decided you don't even want to do that stuff at all... or you might just decide to do them but not at a GrindCore pace.
This change is making STO ... SC proof.
Thats only a half joke... this game bleeds people all the time... and they come back all the time. Almost everyone of us that has been here since Launch has had a least one period where we left for 2+ months. Many left for up to a year to play other games or because they where just burned on STO.
I know a few months back I had some friends return and they lasted a couple weeks... at which point they where completely turned off because they felt they had to grind like mad to catch up.... and there was no signs of Cryptic letting up on the grinds.
This is the first change they are making that makes GRINDS OPTIONAL ... instead of required and people are upset... boggles my mind honestly.
It is still going to be that way. This is what happens...
1 - Player grinds and grinds and grinds gets tired takes a break
2- Comes back after a few major updates...grinds and grinds but does not really finish they give up.
3 - Come back later and even more content and grinds have been added, time spent in game is less.
The more content they miss and the more they feel left behind the less likely they will be to return and if they do the time spent in game will be less. It is a slow bleed until they decide to just move on completely.
The real issue I have with this whole thing is that it is build on the heavy grinding of minimal uninteresting content. In fact, barely enough content to actually do it and they are all basically the same. We are seeing very little creativity in handling these missions. Let's just face it, it is a churn game that is it. You are not meant to play this game in a sustained manner for years. Why? The longer the average player plays the less likely they are to buy because they already have a wealth of stuff. The whole logic behind this change is just that.
When people feel their progression becomes static or stale...it is time to move on, let go. This game is what it is, it will be developed as a churn game, accept it or move on. However, many people feel tied to the game because of their purchases, because it is a Star Trek game and they love Trek. It would be healthier for them to let go and move on, not buy. If you actually saw that happen, I guarantee you this game would either go under or the development model would drastically shift.
Am I? Why is WoW selling a leveling service then? This is a MMO, not a single player game. What matters is a community, and a community can't survive if it can't attract new members, and nobody is going to join a game if all they have to look forward to is years of mandatory grind. Besides the Eve crackpots apparently, but I'm in the majority who think it's a horrible game.
If you think people left the game over this, you are having a fantasy.
People leave over things like lockboxes and ships staring them in the face they can only get if they spend $100's of dollars. They don't leave because some folks can finish PvE content more quickly than them because frankly they never will know.
It's all about PvP, not matter what anyone says - and very few people PvP in this game, so there you go - very very few people left over it.
If you think more people are going to play because one of the end-game systems just became less rewarding to long term play, you are thinking backwards.
I love how you conveniently failed to mention aux to bat technician spam which is what is allowing these min/maxers to achieve 50K+ dps. But by all means, keep lecturing us.
I hit 40k with out tech doffs... so yes I can lecture if I feel like it. lol
Yes doffs are also an issue... and I hope they address that as well... I have been commenting on what they posted I like the change. I hope they change much more to come... Taking a swing at tech doffs isn't the lowest thing on my list either.
I hit 40k with out tech doffs... so yes I can lecture if I feel like it. lol
Yes doffs are also an issue... and I hope they address that as well... I have been commenting on what they posted I like the change. I hope they change much more to come... Taking a swing at tech doffs isn't the lowest thing on my list either.
And in what ship were you in when you hit 40k without tech doffs? It didn't happen to be a scimitar by any chance, would it?
1- This game isn't built the way you think it is. There is no tiered progression. There may be somewhat of an illusion of tiered progression. But there is no progressively more challenging content.
2- They're not designing the game that way. They haven't done it. They're not planning to do it. This isn't Dragon Raiding. You don't go from Zone X and Gear Tier Y to the next.
3- The feedback of "make more creative challenge" is all well and good. But no one EVER offers up what that is. What is it you think they can do with their game engine and programming constraints to make their AI more challenging?
You are so blinded in your unilateral support of this game and company. Just look at any other MMO with deeper more detailed end-game raids. The MOBs and boss level fights are creative and different requiring players to think, manage engagements, have the need for varied group structure. The devs could go play any other game out there and see what their competition is doing.
I applaud you for having such an undaunted view and defense of this game but that is just as harmful as the opposite view.
The only thing better about lockbox ships are consoles.... and I think many of us hope they turn there eye to Universal consoles in general next.
In terms of Unis, here's my preference:
Change them from UNIVERSAL to SPECIAL. Change and add cloaks to ships which are also type SPECIAL.
Now from there, assign two special console slots to all ships. This is a basic power bonus increase.
Then give ships with turnrate of 6 or less one bonus special and turnrate of 3 or less 2 bonus special slots.
Ships also get one bonus special slot for having 4 Sci or more consoles and one bonus Special slot for having 4 or more Eng console slots. One more for not being able to equip cannons or cloak.
Max possible is 7 Special console slots and that would be on a 2/4/4 console layout ship with a turnrate of 3 or less.
Typical battle oriented ship would have 2 special slots. But by comparison, the Galaxy would have 5 special console slots because it gets one bonus for its turnrate and one bonus for its console loadout and one bonus for no canons/cloak. The dreadnought would have 5 and need to use for for its cloak if it opts to be a cloaking ship.
Now... a key proviso: this applies to power oriented consoles. Consoles with powers would lose bonus stats and be purely power consoles. Consoles with pure stat bonus would remain universal.
It would be nice if they left us all with our current REP passives.
Then the first time we slotted a new REP trait it converted us over to the new system.
Yes doffs are also an issue... and I hope they address that as well... I have been commenting on what they posted I like the change. I hope they change much more to come... Taking a swing at tech doffs isn't the lowest thing on my list either.
Your ideas will be the death of this game. Nerfing everything to please PvPers (as your arguments for PvE are bunk) has harmed many an MMO more than it helped -- unless the game was designed around PvP to begin with.
Keeping the grinds, but decreasing the rewards is not the solution. Decreasing the grinds is.
I don't think I like this. The reason I say I don't think I do is because my mind is still in a state of shock from reading the article.
Not only have you removed one of my favourite passives (Rotating Weapon Frequency: handy as hell if you want to make use of Fleet armour/shields/weapons and thus don't have an integral remodulator), but you want to cut those of us who have tier 5 in all rep systems from having currently 16 passive skills... to 4? I mean seriously, 4? Could have at least made it 8 or something, I mean the next rep is being added with these changes so at that point we're going to have to pick 4 out of 24 passives!
I realise that some people have been complaining about 'power creep', but still this is taking it a bit too far the other way in my opinion. We're going to lose so many of the things we've put a LOT of time and effort into getting. I urge you to reconsider this limitation.
I also note that you specify we can change our 'passive traits' for free, but you don't say the same about the 'active powers' is that intentional and meaning we'll have to pay to change those, or is it a mistake in the blog?
*Disclaimer* Before someone comes along and starts telling me why I'm 'wrong', this post is my opinion and my feedback to the devs. Feel free to share your own feedback in your own post.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
You are wrong.
Look at Eve, its over 10 years old and still going strong. There are other mmo's out there that are still strong after years of operation.
This change, is bs.
You just dont see the light yet. Being, they dont care about the lifers or vets or anything, they care about the poor noob who cant hack the pace :P
I was going to start another 12 toons......Now, i will start none. I can hack it with new toons, why cant noobs handle it? whiners
Eve has been flat since there push for new players back in 2010/2011.
They have been slowly bleeding players for 3 years. There sub numbers have stayed flat however due to the nature of Eve many long time players are maintaining mulitple accounts. lol
Eve has managed a slow drain instead of a fast one as it is a completely different example of a MMO.
EVE is a complete oddity in the market. It caters completely to a very hard core PvP market... which means it has seen its max potential and has managed to hang on to those players because no one else caters to that end of the market.
And they should not fit in the same proverbial room, if they have the ability to earn the power the same as long time players. eventually they would be able to compete. after they earned it. Absolutely no reason other than placating cry babies to have new players on equal footing with long time players.
the old rep system to get the ground 3 piece set you had to grind on all 3 different ground missions. doing so you eventually ( way to random ) got the ground set and learned how to play on the ground. learned the mission. and the ques for those mission always had people.
now you never have to touch the ground to earn the ground set. then somebody comes in all decked out and is still a complete noob.
I believe that power creep is a problem that is for sure, but I don't see this as the way to fix the problem. the entire rep system is flawed just to make the new players and cry babies happy.
Id rather see each mission give an item after beating it x amount of times. easy mode gives mk x elite give mk xi and after you have both sets earned via playing the mission (not random drops) you can buy the mk xii set from a rep store. That way you would know when your going to get the sets, like the accolades.
Same would go for space gear. tie each part of a set to a mission. play mission x amount of times earn the set. period no need for marks or any of that other junk. then once the lesser sets are unlocked you go to rep store and buy the mk12 items you have now unlocked with Dilithium / EC / EXP .
And the only CAP increase should be in the MOBs not the players. increase mob lvl to 60 to help offset the damage you devs have already done with power creep.
After a little thinking about all this why not just work the rep passives the same way other passives in the game work. let them only apply to that type of enemy, nukara rep passives apply to tholians, omega rep passives apply to borg and so on. then just leave the t5 power we earn as the reward for completing the rep. no reason to complicate all this. and if you want to limit the power creep that would seem like the better approach to me atleast.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
the Op is right this game has gone so far down hill this year im surprised anyone even logs in anymore. Maybe you can give me and the masses who feel the same a reason to log in?
As snoggymack said, going French Revolution on Cryptic/PWE isn't going to solve anything.
After all, when you have the French Revolution, you get Napoleon Bonaparte in the aftermath.
People will always be the same. Game developers will always be the same. If it isn't Cryptic or PWE's devs, it'll be some other devs who will enrage you.
Treat STO as the game you currently have instead of the game you wish you had.
I don't think I like this. The reason I say I don't think I do is because my mind is still in a state of shock from reading the article.
Not only have you removed one of my favourite passives (Rotating Weapon Frequency: handy as hell if you want to make use of Fleet armour/shields/weapons and thus don't have an integral remodulator), but you want to cut those of us who have tier 5 in all rep systems from having currently 16 passive skills... to 4? I mean seriously, 4? Could have at least made it 8 or something, I mean the next rep is being added with these changes so at that point we're going to have to pick 4 out of 24 passives!
I realise that some people have been complaining about 'power creep', but still this is taking it a bit too far the other way in my opinion. We're going to lose so many of the things we've put a LOT of time and effort into getting. I urge you to reconsider this limitation.
*Disclaimer* Before someone comes along and starts telling me why I'm 'wrong', this post is my opinion and my feedback to the devs. Feel free to share your own feedback in your own post.
Well, technically, it's 8 passives - 4 space, 4 ground. Essentially, you can pick and choose any set you want to help out.
Niche and genre games will all have their people who feel the same way you might about Oberths and Packled's here. So your comment is inflammatory to other communities of gamers. You like this, they like other things. To them a flaming sword is just as good.
What you fail to see is the whole model here is a churn, if it were not there would have been alternate solutions to this issue rather than lets make a fresh 50 equal to a veteran 50. That there should tell you that you and I as veteran players are not the target audience and we are viewed as a liability. Whether it be because of adamant defense or criticism of the game or that we have purchased a bunch of things and are really only likely to make a few purchases of items that we are really interested in.
Those players that are the target now will have spent a bunch of money before they become us and spend less money or leave the game. I agree with you here in general, the game is not built for retention, it will never be built for retention. It is built to get waves of new players in to make purchases. Not have veteran players continue to play the game to continue to make sustained purchases.
Why does it matter if 90% of people play PVE anyways? A decent team without reps can still get optionals nowadays so I'm still missing the point you're trying to make here.
Grinds effect both PvP and PvE players... yes I know when people see me talking they assume (mostly rightly) that I am thinking about PvP.
Truth is grind effects all players. There have been just as many "Cryptic Stop the grind" threads started in the General and PvE sections as there have been in the PvP section. Tells me that no one likes to feel behind... and that everyone feels the need to complete what is in front of them.
Having the trait limit 100% makes it possible to skip grinds or at least not feel they must be completed because I am MISSING something. No one likes to be missing things... and no one really likes super grinds. (we all like some grind we can admit that).
This system will make it much easier for Returning players to jump back in and not feel the second they come back that they are missing the basics. Makes it much more likely they won't just leave again... which has for sure happened with players of all stripes. This change will help there.
Well, technically, it's 8 passives - 4 space, 4 ground. Essentially, you can pick and choose any set you want to help out.
Ok, well then considering half the passives are space and half are ground, we're still going to have to pick 4 out of 12 (once the new rep system is added, which will be at the same time as this change).
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
There is a big fix to that built into this system though.
Lets say you so the Undine Rep and then decide to leave STO and go play SC or something else.
Now 6-7 months pass and you decide you miss Trek and STO... and SC isn't what you hoped so you come back.
Now you been gone and you have missed Telaxian / Vidian / and Vulcan Reputations.
So all your previous MAX rep toons are now only done 5 of the 8 Reps.
Everyone else just started the new Savior of Vulcan missions and guess what.... you can jump right in and join in because you already have enough unlocks to be able to continue to compete... and you don't feel like you have to grind 24h a day to catch up on the previous reps you missed.... Heck you might decided you don't even want to do that stuff at all... or you might just decide to do them but not at a GrindCore pace.
This change is making STO ... SC proof.
Thats only a half joke... this game bleeds people all the time... and they come back all the time. Almost everyone of us that has been here since Launch has had a least one period where we left for 2+ months. Many left for up to a year to play other games or because they where just burned on STO.
I know a few months back I had some friends return and they lasted a couple weeks... at which point they where completely turned off because they felt they had to grind like mad to catch up.... and there was no signs of Cryptic letting up on the grinds.
This is the first change they are making that makes GRINDS OPTIONAL ... instead of required and people are upset... boggles my mind honestly.
This is so backwards.
And I can speak very authoritatively - as I am in the situation you just described.
I returned as the Dyson content was coming in. And in fact, I didn't have tier V in *ANY* reputation. I'm into DOFFing, playing the economic game (my bank balance goes between 75-500M in any given day), playing episode missions - a wide variety of the game.
So since I have been back, I finished Romulan Tier V, and I'm working on Dyson, and doing a sprinkling of others as I go along.
Because I don't feel the need to grind "24h a day" - that's a PvP mentality. I don't need to be the best right away. I don't need the content handed to me on a silver platter all at once.
I was actually getting quite excited about planning getting through all the reputations now that I'm back in the swing of the game. Now that there was some nice structure, I was planning all my gameplay around it - there are only so many millions of credits to make and so many DOFF missions to do, especially since I have more Dilith unrefined than I could turn in even if I stopped playing for a month.
But now...the focus of my attention has become moot - because I really don't need more 3pc sets, I have more costumes in the game than I really could ever want, but it was nice to further power-up my character by getting new powers that didn't require me to dismantle everything else.
As this new system is described, with what I already have in Rep powers, I'm pretty much done - I don't need any more reputation choices, as I've got enough to fill these new slots. And a few more choices that I have to remember to slot in and out, among ship loadouts, consumables, other equipment, power bar commands, etc. - so, it's a big "meh".
More MMO's have been killed by catering to PvP "balance" than ever were because of PvE "creep" - and there is no excuse for it ESPECIALLY because STO has built-in scaling of PvE content to begin with, and they could easily expand that into PvP modifiers for the group that wishes to play that content.
But no, take the lazy way to swing that nerf bat over everyone - and give the middle-of-the-road players the finger while they try to attract the "game of the month" MOBA players who are the only ones who will see any benefit of this change, and who will not stick around very long anyway even if they do suddenly decide to want to play. It's so short-sighted, and the only way I can see supporting this is if you fancy yourself a PvPer who is "20% better than everyone else anyway" (I believe that's what you said earlier) who just wants more fodder to shoot at, albeit temporarily.
Am I? Why is WoW selling a leveling service then? This is a MMO, not a single player game. What matters is a community, and a community can't survive if it can't attract new members, and nobody is going to join a game if all they have to look forward to is years of mandatory grind. Besides the Eve crackpots apparently, but I'm in the majority who think it's a horrible game.
so, you one of those whiners that cant hack the pace when leveling a new toon? Poor you
Every game i have played has had a leveling system where, of course, the vets have better stuff then noobs. Its the way it should be. Not vice versa, not the same.
What they are doing, is just making everything easy for noobs, and not worth it for vets......good on ya for supporting the noobs loser
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
Eve has been flat since there push for new players back in 2010/2011.
They have been slowly bleeding players for 3 years. There sub numbers have stayed flat however due to the nature of Eve many long time players are maintaining mulitple accounts. lol
Eve has managed a slow drain instead of a fast one as it is a completely different example of a MMO.
EVE is a complete oddity in the market. It caters completely to a very hard core PvP market... which means it has seen its max potential and has managed to hang on to those players because no one else caters to that end of the market.
another noob supporting the change? :P
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
More MMO's have been killed by catering to PvP "balance" than ever were because of PvE "creep" - and there is no excuse for it ESPECIALLY because STO has built-in scaling of PvE content to begin with, and they could easily expand that into PvP modifiers for the group that wishes to play that content.
I do honestly feel really sorry for some of you guys that only play to grind. Really what joy do you take in any of this.
When you where done all your reps what was your plan... stop playing until more stuff came out ?
This change quite honestly has NOTHING to do at all with PvP. Hawk has made that clear... and if ANYONE playing this game thinks the devs listen to us Winy PvP players there must be something in your local water supply... and can I come over for a glass.
There is no level 50 PvE scaling right now... its sort of the issue.
If they release new Unidne content that is challenging for people with 10 reps active (all the current ones + the new ones)... it will be hard for people with ZERO. If they continue to make level 50 content that is a good balance for level 50 players... the level 50+++ with 10+ traits active will walk though it so fast they will get bored in a week.
This is about PvE... any changes effect both obviously... but frankly in PvP yes if everyone has it no one is special.. so your right PvP players feel like they need to grind it all out no doubt.
PvE players are not all that different however as much as you don't want to believe it. The game mechanics that don't work in PvP also don't work in PvE... and they make it very hard for Cryptic to decide just how challenging they need to make new content. This change makes it easier for them to tune new content That alone is the only reason The Devs got there bosses to agree with them on this change.
so, you one of those whiners that cant hack the pace when leveling a new toon? Poor you
Every game i have played has had a leveling system where, of course, the vets have better stuff then noobs. Its the way it should be. Not vice versa, not the same.
What they are doing, is just making everything easy for noobs, and not worth it for vets......good on ya for supporting the noobs loser
Real funny, I support noobs because I'm not the kind of elitist who thinks only me and my 7 buddies who have the time to play 24/7 should be able to do basic content. I have the resources to do that, but I've learned my lesson the last time I tried a game like that and ended in the 'jackass' crowd before it went even further downhill.
No, a dedicated PvPer who also plays the Forum PvP game who couldn't care less about the PvE game or anything else so long as PvP is getting catered to.
Change them from UNIVERSAL to SPECIAL. Change and add cloaks to ships which are also type SPECIAL.
Now from there, assign two special console slots to all ships. This is a basic power bonus increase.
Then give ships with turnrate of 6 or less one bonus special and turnrate of 3 or less 2 bonus special slots.
Ships also get one bonus special slot for having 4 Sci or more consoles and one bonus Special slot for having 4 or more Eng console slots. One more for not being able to equip cannons or cloak.
Max possible is 7 Special console slots and that would be on a 2/4/4 console layout ship with a turnrate of 3 or less.
Typical battle oriented ship would have 2 special slots. But by comparison, the Galaxy would have 5 special console slots because it gets one bonus for its turnrate and one bonus for its console loadout and one bonus for no canons/cloak. The dreadnought would have 5 and need to use for for its cloak if it opts to be a cloaking ship.
Now... a key proviso: this applies to power oriented consoles. Consoles with powers would lose bonus stats and be purely power consoles. Consoles with pure stat bonus would remain universal.
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Make your changes to suit the whining noobs PWE. Dont listen to us vets. Keeo nerfing everything, because a day will will come where all you have left playing the game, is ftp whiners that dont spend a dime in supporting the game
And half the noobs that do start playing will leave anyway.
Im done spending money on this game. And when i get to that point, its normally not too long before i move on to bigger and better things.
If you want to lose a vet, keep doin what you're doin
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
No, a dedicated PvPer who also plays the Forum PvP game who couldn't care less about the PvE game or anything else so long as PvP is getting catered to.
Damn I forgot to equip the rep that counters that one. Score one for you there.
Comments
What fallacy am I failing to see? I mean my whole post is just conjecture on what it is I think might be their corporate enforced goals. I could be way off. But PWE probably has a few guidelines that the folks at Cryptic have to incorporate into the work they do. It wouldn't surprise me if one of those goals was continued design decisions that cater to the new player experience.
All I'm going to say is this game is far different than other MMOs in terms of its ability to sell shinies.
In a fantasy MMO it's like "Ooooh a sparkly sword, black and red armor with a glow, and a flying horsie that snorts fire!"
That is pretty short term ooh and ahh.
This game?
It's Star Trek.
There are people who bought the Oberth.
THE OBERTH.
Let that sink in.
Spend some time this year going to a Star Trek convention. Check the prices on some old Mego action figures. Then watch someone pay those prices. Because it's TREK!
The bread and butter of this game has always been the store. Because people are buying Star Trek collectibles. And then playing them in the game.
That's a very different dynamic than, say, even Neverwinter Online.
Folks bought Pakleds as a playable race back before the F2P conversion.
Pakleds.
And flew them in Oberths.
Just let that sink in a little.
I can agree with that. Unfortunately, there are some things that 'timing was an issue' is a good excuse for.
Rep grinds knowingly being one of the most persistent complaints about the game and saying 'timing was an issue' shows apathy to the players.
This isn't a bit of an error. This is what I'd consider a faux pas.
It is still going to be that way. This is what happens...
1 - Player grinds and grinds and grinds gets tired takes a break
2- Comes back after a few major updates...grinds and grinds but does not really finish they give up.
3 - Come back later and even more content and grinds have been added, time spent in game is less.
The more content they miss and the more they feel left behind the less likely they will be to return and if they do the time spent in game will be less. It is a slow bleed until they decide to just move on completely.
The real issue I have with this whole thing is that it is build on the heavy grinding of minimal uninteresting content. In fact, barely enough content to actually do it and they are all basically the same. We are seeing very little creativity in handling these missions. Let's just face it, it is a churn game that is it. You are not meant to play this game in a sustained manner for years. Why? The longer the average player plays the less likely they are to buy because they already have a wealth of stuff. The whole logic behind this change is just that.
When people feel their progression becomes static or stale...it is time to move on, let go. This game is what it is, it will be developed as a churn game, accept it or move on. However, many people feel tied to the game because of their purchases, because it is a Star Trek game and they love Trek. It would be healthier for them to let go and move on, not buy. If you actually saw that happen, I guarantee you this game would either go under or the development model would drastically shift.
If you think people left the game over this, you are having a fantasy.
People leave over things like lockboxes and ships staring them in the face they can only get if they spend $100's of dollars. They don't leave because some folks can finish PvE content more quickly than them because frankly they never will know.
It's all about PvP, not matter what anyone says - and very few people PvP in this game, so there you go - very very few people left over it.
If you think more people are going to play because one of the end-game systems just became less rewarding to long term play, you are thinking backwards.
I hit 40k with out tech doffs... so yes I can lecture if I feel like it. lol
Yes doffs are also an issue... and I hope they address that as well... I have been commenting on what they posted I like the change. I hope they change much more to come... Taking a swing at tech doffs isn't the lowest thing on my list either.
And in what ship were you in when you hit 40k without tech doffs? It didn't happen to be a scimitar by any chance, would it?
You are so blinded in your unilateral support of this game and company. Just look at any other MMO with deeper more detailed end-game raids. The MOBs and boss level fights are creative and different requiring players to think, manage engagements, have the need for varied group structure. The devs could go play any other game out there and see what their competition is doing.
I applaud you for having such an undaunted view and defense of this game but that is just as harmful as the opposite view.
In terms of Unis, here's my preference:
Change them from UNIVERSAL to SPECIAL. Change and add cloaks to ships which are also type SPECIAL.
Now from there, assign two special console slots to all ships. This is a basic power bonus increase.
Then give ships with turnrate of 6 or less one bonus special and turnrate of 3 or less 2 bonus special slots.
Ships also get one bonus special slot for having 4 Sci or more consoles and one bonus Special slot for having 4 or more Eng console slots. One more for not being able to equip cannons or cloak.
Max possible is 7 Special console slots and that would be on a 2/4/4 console layout ship with a turnrate of 3 or less.
Typical battle oriented ship would have 2 special slots. But by comparison, the Galaxy would have 5 special console slots because it gets one bonus for its turnrate and one bonus for its console loadout and one bonus for no canons/cloak. The dreadnought would have 5 and need to use for for its cloak if it opts to be a cloaking ship.
Now... a key proviso: this applies to power oriented consoles. Consoles with powers would lose bonus stats and be purely power consoles. Consoles with pure stat bonus would remain universal.
Then the first time we slotted a new REP trait it converted us over to the new system.
WIN - WIN for everyone.
Your ideas will be the death of this game. Nerfing everything to please PvPers (as your arguments for PvE are bunk) has harmed many an MMO more than it helped -- unless the game was designed around PvP to begin with.
Keeping the grinds, but decreasing the rewards is not the solution. Decreasing the grinds is.
I don't think I like this. The reason I say I don't think I do is because my mind is still in a state of shock from reading the article.
Not only have you removed one of my favourite passives (Rotating Weapon Frequency: handy as hell if you want to make use of Fleet armour/shields/weapons and thus don't have an integral remodulator), but you want to cut those of us who have tier 5 in all rep systems from having currently 16 passive skills... to 4? I mean seriously, 4? Could have at least made it 8 or something, I mean the next rep is being added with these changes so at that point we're going to have to pick 4 out of 24 passives!
I realise that some people have been complaining about 'power creep', but still this is taking it a bit too far the other way in my opinion. We're going to lose so many of the things we've put a LOT of time and effort into getting. I urge you to reconsider this limitation.
I also note that you specify we can change our 'passive traits' for free, but you don't say the same about the 'active powers' is that intentional and meaning we'll have to pay to change those, or is it a mistake in the blog?
*Disclaimer* Before someone comes along and starts telling me why I'm 'wrong', this post is my opinion and my feedback to the devs. Feel free to share your own feedback in your own post.
Eve has been flat since there push for new players back in 2010/2011.
They have been slowly bleeding players for 3 years. There sub numbers have stayed flat however due to the nature of Eve many long time players are maintaining mulitple accounts. lol
Eve has managed a slow drain instead of a fast one as it is a completely different example of a MMO.
EVE is a complete oddity in the market. It caters completely to a very hard core PvP market... which means it has seen its max potential and has managed to hang on to those players because no one else caters to that end of the market.
After a little thinking about all this why not just work the rep passives the same way other passives in the game work. let them only apply to that type of enemy, nukara rep passives apply to tholians, omega rep passives apply to borg and so on. then just leave the t5 power we earn as the reward for completing the rep. no reason to complicate all this. and if you want to limit the power creep that would seem like the better approach to me atleast.
As snoggymack said, going French Revolution on Cryptic/PWE isn't going to solve anything.
After all, when you have the French Revolution, you get Napoleon Bonaparte in the aftermath.
People will always be the same. Game developers will always be the same. If it isn't Cryptic or PWE's devs, it'll be some other devs who will enrage you.
Treat STO as the game you currently have instead of the game you wish you had.
Well, technically, it's 8 passives - 4 space, 4 ground. Essentially, you can pick and choose any set you want to help out.
Niche and genre games will all have their people who feel the same way you might about Oberths and Packled's here. So your comment is inflammatory to other communities of gamers. You like this, they like other things. To them a flaming sword is just as good.
What you fail to see is the whole model here is a churn, if it were not there would have been alternate solutions to this issue rather than lets make a fresh 50 equal to a veteran 50. That there should tell you that you and I as veteran players are not the target audience and we are viewed as a liability. Whether it be because of adamant defense or criticism of the game or that we have purchased a bunch of things and are really only likely to make a few purchases of items that we are really interested in.
Those players that are the target now will have spent a bunch of money before they become us and spend less money or leave the game. I agree with you here in general, the game is not built for retention, it will never be built for retention. It is built to get waves of new players in to make purchases. Not have veteran players continue to play the game to continue to make sustained purchases.
Grinds effect both PvP and PvE players... yes I know when people see me talking they assume (mostly rightly) that I am thinking about PvP.
Truth is grind effects all players. There have been just as many "Cryptic Stop the grind" threads started in the General and PvE sections as there have been in the PvP section. Tells me that no one likes to feel behind... and that everyone feels the need to complete what is in front of them.
Having the trait limit 100% makes it possible to skip grinds or at least not feel they must be completed because I am MISSING something. No one likes to be missing things... and no one really likes super grinds. (we all like some grind we can admit that).
This system will make it much easier for Returning players to jump back in and not feel the second they come back that they are missing the basics. Makes it much more likely they won't just leave again... which has for sure happened with players of all stripes. This change will help there.
Ok, well then considering half the passives are space and half are ground, we're still going to have to pick 4 out of 12 (once the new rep system is added, which will be at the same time as this change).
This is so backwards.
And I can speak very authoritatively - as I am in the situation you just described.
I returned as the Dyson content was coming in. And in fact, I didn't have tier V in *ANY* reputation. I'm into DOFFing, playing the economic game (my bank balance goes between 75-500M in any given day), playing episode missions - a wide variety of the game.
So since I have been back, I finished Romulan Tier V, and I'm working on Dyson, and doing a sprinkling of others as I go along.
Because I don't feel the need to grind "24h a day" - that's a PvP mentality. I don't need to be the best right away. I don't need the content handed to me on a silver platter all at once.
I was actually getting quite excited about planning getting through all the reputations now that I'm back in the swing of the game. Now that there was some nice structure, I was planning all my gameplay around it - there are only so many millions of credits to make and so many DOFF missions to do, especially since I have more Dilith unrefined than I could turn in even if I stopped playing for a month.
But now...the focus of my attention has become moot - because I really don't need more 3pc sets, I have more costumes in the game than I really could ever want, but it was nice to further power-up my character by getting new powers that didn't require me to dismantle everything else.
As this new system is described, with what I already have in Rep powers, I'm pretty much done - I don't need any more reputation choices, as I've got enough to fill these new slots. And a few more choices that I have to remember to slot in and out, among ship loadouts, consumables, other equipment, power bar commands, etc. - so, it's a big "meh".
More MMO's have been killed by catering to PvP "balance" than ever were because of PvE "creep" - and there is no excuse for it ESPECIALLY because STO has built-in scaling of PvE content to begin with, and they could easily expand that into PvP modifiers for the group that wishes to play that content.
But no, take the lazy way to swing that nerf bat over everyone - and give the middle-of-the-road players the finger while they try to attract the "game of the month" MOBA players who are the only ones who will see any benefit of this change, and who will not stick around very long anyway even if they do suddenly decide to want to play. It's so short-sighted, and the only way I can see supporting this is if you fancy yourself a PvPer who is "20% better than everyone else anyway" (I believe that's what you said earlier) who just wants more fodder to shoot at, albeit temporarily.
Na
Dev Blog #6... upcoming changes to Player vs Player ques.
Dev Blog #7... upcoming changes to Energy Weapon skills.
Dev Blog #8... upcoming changes to the duty officer system.
Dev Blog #9... upcoming changes to ship consoles.
so, you one of those whiners that cant hack the pace when leveling a new toon? Poor you
Every game i have played has had a leveling system where, of course, the vets have better stuff then noobs. Its the way it should be. Not vice versa, not the same.
What they are doing, is just making everything easy for noobs, and not worth it for vets......good on ya for supporting the noobs loser
another noob supporting the change? :P
I do honestly feel really sorry for some of you guys that only play to grind. Really what joy do you take in any of this.
When you where done all your reps what was your plan... stop playing until more stuff came out ?
This change quite honestly has NOTHING to do at all with PvP. Hawk has made that clear... and if ANYONE playing this game thinks the devs listen to us Winy PvP players there must be something in your local water supply... and can I come over for a glass.
There is no level 50 PvE scaling right now... its sort of the issue.
If they release new Unidne content that is challenging for people with 10 reps active (all the current ones + the new ones)... it will be hard for people with ZERO. If they continue to make level 50 content that is a good balance for level 50 players... the level 50+++ with 10+ traits active will walk though it so fast they will get bored in a week.
This is about PvE... any changes effect both obviously... but frankly in PvP yes if everyone has it no one is special.. so your right PvP players feel like they need to grind it all out no doubt.
PvE players are not all that different however as much as you don't want to believe it.
Real funny, I support noobs because I'm not the kind of elitist who thinks only me and my 7 buddies who have the time to play 24/7 should be able to do basic content. I have the resources to do that, but I've learned my lesson the last time I tried a game like that and ended in the 'jackass' crowd before it went even further downhill.
No doubt, Yep dats me. :P
No, a dedicated PvPer who also plays the Forum PvP game who couldn't care less about the PvE game or anything else so long as PvP is getting catered to.
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
And half the noobs that do start playing will leave anyway.
Im done spending money on this game. And when i get to that point, its normally not too long before i move on to bigger and better things.
If you want to lose a vet, keep doin what you're doin
Damn I forgot to equip the rep that counters that one. Score one for you there.