A) A one-time service is different than an ongoing one. PWE isn't in business to make a game and sell it, but rather to keep selling and servicing it. You have no idea that PWE has performed their work properly and with a high degree of workmanship.
C) You have no idea whether or not they had no degree of control over this.
This.
If PWE produced a Star Wars game in disc form and you (or the dog or your brother or whatever) subsequently destroyed the disc and then you called PWE and pitched a fit about your destroyed disc, this insanity would match the broken fence analogy.
But PWE or Cryptic or whoever charges money to provide a service and part of the service they provide is to have a usable product ready for us to use whenever we choose to use it. That is their side of the implicit bargain on this - unless they've told us in advance that the product will not be there.
It is not a sense of 'entitlement' on the side of the consumer to have a reasonable expectation that the people who make that implicit agreement with you will provide the service you contracted them to provide when you decide it is time to use the service.
A more apropos analogy would be if you contracted Triple A to provide roadside assistance to you, but when you called Triple A when you have a flat, the number is either down or Triple A tells you that the guy who they use in your area is on another call and it will be several hours before they can get to you.
Let's pretend that you, being self-employed, operate a fence building company.
A customer calls you for a quote to fence in their back yard. You arrive, perform the quote, they approve it and contract you to install a simple chain link fence enclosing their back yard. After two or three days of work you complete the project and collect payment.
A week goes by, and then you receive a phone call in the morning from the customer who is angry. During the night vandal(s) unknown defaced/damaged/destroyed the fence, causing the coyotes from the woods yonder to wander into their yard and ravage their garbage receptacles.
You would, in all probability, think that they're nuts for calling you and demanding you repair the fence free of charge. The work was performed properly and with a high degree of workmanship, nevertheless, your customer is upset with YOU for something that you had no degree of control over.
And so it is with STO being offline. ARC/Cryptic/John de Lancie/whoever is not at fault here.
Stuff happens, and sometimes you can't blame anybody (although in the above example I gave you would rightly blame the vandal(s)).
Yes it is. Au contrair the example you are giving, PWE is able to set up a system that is redundant, meaning that one fails, the second system is taking over at the point where the other failed. Giving such themselves the time to fix the issues on the failing system, while these problems have no impact on the "daily" working. They have made a profit of 34 million dollars over the last year, then you should believe that they can afford a redundant server. You can discus the cost of it, agreed, but outages like these cost them more then only the man hours they are spending now on fixing the server. Trust is gone in the company, gamers can't spend their time and eventually money at this moment. It's a choice they have to make once, but I shouldn't wait too long with it.
OK, if I have to stay here for a while, your cieling ... looks idious.:D
A) A one-time service is different than an ongoing one. PWE isn't in business to make a game and sell it, but rather to keep selling and servicing it. You have no idea that PWE has performed their work properly and with a high degree of workmanship.
C) You have no idea whether or not they had no degree of control over this.
You're putting up a strawman argument.
a) Of course a one-time service is different from an ongoing one. The premise is the precise same, however: You were paid to perform a service with no guarantee of eternal functionality (and if there's a company out there that offers chain-link fence insurance, I will gladly stand corrected on the matter).
b) Given how successful Perfect World is as a corporation, it stands to reason that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by NOT performing their work properly and with a high degree of workmanship.
c) What possible logic could there be in "they", whomsoever they are, deliberately causing an hours-long service disruption?
The Borg have it all wrong. Resistance is not futile. Resistance is electromotive force over current. Hasn't the Borg Queen ever heard of Ohm's frickin' Law?
Hey man, I get it. I wish I was in game playing too. I've put in a full week's work just like you(I'm assuming you work, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), and I'm totally ready to enjoy the weekend with some STO. And yes, its a bummer that the game is down right now. But here is the difference in our situations: you seem to think its some kind of big deal that you cant play a video game right now, while I dont. All I can say is that you are very lucky if that is what you consider a big deal, because I have much more unpleasant things that fit that category for me.
I think it's a big enough deal to spend a few minutes posting about it on a message board, yes, mainly because this is the very time I allotted to be playing said game, which means I don't really have much else to do right now. That, however, doesn't mean that I'm frothing at the mouth about it. It just means that I'm annoyed that the people I pay money to provide me a service aren't providing the service.
It is not a sense of 'entitlement' on the side of the consumer to have a reasonable expectation that the people who make that implicit agreement with you will provide the service you contracted them to provide when you decide it is time to use the service.
If you were to read the EULA I'm reasonably certain you would find a clause stating that you, the end user, agree to hold blameless the owners/operators/whomever of STO for service outages/disruptions/etc.
But hey, if you want to ignore logic and continue to grumble about how you're entitled to forever and ever uptime then fine. I didn't come here to upset people, I was only trying to provide a different perspective.
The Borg have it all wrong. Resistance is not futile. Resistance is electromotive force over current. Hasn't the Borg Queen ever heard of Ohm's frickin' Law?
It seems quite a few people are actively interested in what's going on. Yet the level of engagement from Cryptic's "Community Management/Relations" has been rather negligible.
It would be nice to get regular updates, even if there were no significant changes, if only to show active involvement with your Community, Cryptic. :rolleyes:
Look guys it's already late on Friday night, it may be fixed by tomorrow or it may not I suggest you simply come to accept this level of service from Cryptic because it's something that happens with some regularity and anyone whose been here long enough should have come to terms with this by now or you're going to be angry quite often.
As for me feeling entitled I paid a subscription but I find it hilariously ironic that I left the game for so long due to it going in a direction I didn't like, was persuaded to come back by friends... and within a week of my return there is a weekend outage, could have happened two weeks ago .
Look guys it's already late on Friday night, it may be fixed by tomorrow or it may not I suggest you simply come to accept this level of service from Cryptic because it's something that happens with some regularity and anyone whose been here long enough should have come to terms with this by now or you're going to be angry quite often.
As for me feeling entitled I paid a subscription but I find it hilariously ironic that I left the game for so long due to it going in a direction I didn't like, was persuaded to come back by friends... and within a week of my return there is a weekend outage, could have happened two weeks ago .
If you were to read the EULA I'm reasonably certain you would find a clause stating that you, the end user, agree to hold blameless the owners/operators/whomever of STO for service outages/disruptions/etc.
But hey, if you want to ignore logic and continue to grumble about how you're entitled to forever and ever uptime then fine. I didn't come here to upset people, I was only trying to provide a different perspective.
I think you're confusing "I wanna sue!" with "This is crappy business." Is your husband a cryptic dev working on the game? Or are you just a fan who hopes they'll give you stuff. I don't expect compensation for this bs server crash or whatever it is but as a customer who has either subscribed or frequently spent money on this game, I'm entitled to think this is bad business and I should expect to be able to log in without hours-long crashes.
btw, on a side note, STO has a better track record with stability than many other mmo's i've played over the last couple years.
Look guys it's already late on Friday night, it may be fixed by tomorrow or it may not I suggest you simply come to accept this level of service from Cryptic because it's something that happens with some regularity and anyone whose been here long enough should have come to terms with this by now or you're going to be angry quite often.
As for me feeling entitled I paid a subscription but I find it hilariously ironic that I left the game for so long due to it going in a direction I didn't like, was persuaded to come back by friends... and within a week of my return there is a weekend outage, could have happened two weeks ago .
Could someone direct me to the definition of passive aggressive?
It seems quite a few people are actively interested in what's going on. Yet the level of engagement from Cryptic's "Community Management/Relations" has been rather negligible.
It would be nice to get regular updates, even if there were no significant changes, if only to show active involvement with your Community, Cryptic. :rolleyes:
I would like to add, that I think you should look into doing what Second Life does. They have well far upgraded servers to handle more than the worlds population so their server stays up and doesn't crash as often. Along with that they have a backup server to take over if any or all the other main servers fail. They learned cause when there was that CSI episode that involved Second Life than they were over ran and their servers died due to too many people logging in and those that are already logged in. Might I also give a suggestion to powerhouse your servers so that there is less drag in the graphics system on your end. I noticed that there is drag in major mmo battles where there is too much going on and the whole graphics system on the users end and yours lag out and can lead to server booting on the user. On another note I think there should also be a buy and sell on ec to dilithium and dilithium to ec. Users have tendencies to over price and high price things to the point that for a lot of users they don't have the ec or can gain enough ec at a time to purchase products on the market. If there was a exchange to change dilithium into ec and visa versa than there would be less complaining from users about buying things.
If you were to read the EULA I'm reasonably certain you would find a clause stating that you, the end user, agree to hold blameless the owners/operators/whomever of STO for service outages/disruptions/etc.
But hey, if you want to ignore logic and continue to grumble about how you're entitled to forever and ever uptime then fine. I didn't come here to upset people, I was only trying to provide a different perspective.
If you'll recall, my initial post didn't demand 'forever and ever uptime.' In fact, with other games I play, I very rarely even comment about the occasional downtime that strikes all mmos. I talked specifically about this particular game and its history and the fact that for several months just last year, a lot of players were presented with a virtually unplayable game due to the fact that they could not remain logged onto it for more than a few minutes at a time before they were dropped off the server.
...the air remains free as does the sun.
meaning that your hammer is missing the nail.
In simple terms to break it down for you, it's only free for as long we don't think of ways to exploit it and in a world shaped by human exploitation, free is per vantage point of the receiver, not the giver.
Meaning the man who's had his lungs fried from the effects of H2SO4 and in need of pressurized O2 to survive would hardly consider the air he breathes free. And someone who ends up with skin cancer because of their sunbound ways will know the price they've had to pay for it when their own life hangs on the line. Even Free has a price to pay, for nothing is free of time.
If PWE produced a Star Wars game in disc form and you (or the dog or your brother or whatever) subsequently destroyed the disc and then you called PWE and pitched a fit about your destroyed disc, this insanity would match the broken fence analogy.
But PWE or Cryptic or whoever charges money to provide a service and part of the service they provide is to have a usable product ready for us to use whenever we choose to use it. That is their side of the implicit bargain on this - unless they've told us in advance that the product will not be there.
It is not a sense of 'entitlement' on the side of the consumer to have a reasonable expectation that the people who make that implicit agreement with you will provide the service you contracted them to provide when you decide it is time to use the service.
A more apropos analogy would be if you contracted Triple A to provide roadside assistance to you, but when you called Triple A when you have a flat, the number is either down or Triple A tells you that the guy who they use in your area is on another call and it will be several hours before they can get to you.
ok just had to say this, you do realise that what you said and what the guy you quoted said was basically the same. your analogy implies something outwith the control of AAA. which I believe was one of the points the guy you are replying to made. There is an unspoken/unwritten clause in an online service that all parties know. Sometimes the internet is $%^& and doesn't work, servers can go down, there could be a power out in the area where the servers are held, some nasty little kid could have uploaded a virus or any number of other issues. it is IMMPOSSIBLE to guarantee 100% service 24/7 365 on an online service. You know this, we all know it, we all get annoyed when it happens but it WILL happen.
ok now any update on when it will be working again anyone?
Comments
This.
If PWE produced a Star Wars game in disc form and you (or the dog or your brother or whatever) subsequently destroyed the disc and then you called PWE and pitched a fit about your destroyed disc, this insanity would match the broken fence analogy.
But PWE or Cryptic or whoever charges money to provide a service and part of the service they provide is to have a usable product ready for us to use whenever we choose to use it. That is their side of the implicit bargain on this - unless they've told us in advance that the product will not be there.
It is not a sense of 'entitlement' on the side of the consumer to have a reasonable expectation that the people who make that implicit agreement with you will provide the service you contracted them to provide when you decide it is time to use the service.
A more apropos analogy would be if you contracted Triple A to provide roadside assistance to you, but when you called Triple A when you have a flat, the number is either down or Triple A tells you that the guy who they use in your area is on another call and it will be several hours before they can get to you.
Here you go!
> Passion <
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
Is it possible that the Tribble Server is hosted elsewhere? Maybe they intentionally keep test servers and live servers away from each other?
*shrug*
[ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
Yes it is. Au contrair the example you are giving, PWE is able to set up a system that is redundant, meaning that one fails, the second system is taking over at the point where the other failed. Giving such themselves the time to fix the issues on the failing system, while these problems have no impact on the "daily" working. They have made a profit of 34 million dollars over the last year, then you should believe that they can afford a redundant server. You can discus the cost of it, agreed, but outages like these cost them more then only the man hours they are spending now on fixing the server. Trust is gone in the company, gamers can't spend their time and eventually money at this moment. It's a choice they have to make once, but I shouldn't wait too long with it.
You're putting up a strawman argument.
a) Of course a one-time service is different from an ongoing one. The premise is the precise same, however: You were paid to perform a service with no guarantee of eternal functionality (and if there's a company out there that offers chain-link fence insurance, I will gladly stand corrected on the matter).
b) Given how successful Perfect World is as a corporation, it stands to reason that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by NOT performing their work properly and with a high degree of workmanship.
c) What possible logic could there be in "they", whomsoever they are, deliberately causing an hours-long service disruption?
I don't see anything on that twitter page that resembles what I've read in this thread as attributable to a "devtracker."
1
a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2
: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3
: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges [SUCH AS BEING ABLE TO PLAY STO WHENEVER YOU WANT.]
I think it's a big enough deal to spend a few minutes posting about it on a message board, yes, mainly because this is the very time I allotted to be playing said game, which means I don't really have much else to do right now. That, however, doesn't mean that I'm frothing at the mouth about it. It just means that I'm annoyed that the people I pay money to provide me a service aren't providing the service.
I've prefered Rei Ayanami's power of touch.
I can get in tribble and redshirt without any trouble. It's just holodeck.......
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
Somebody had to say something, I think were overloading the servers or something.
If you were to read the EULA I'm reasonably certain you would find a clause stating that you, the end user, agree to hold blameless the owners/operators/whomever of STO for service outages/disruptions/etc.
But hey, if you want to ignore logic and continue to grumble about how you're entitled to forever and ever uptime then fine. I didn't come here to upset people, I was only trying to provide a different perspective.
It seems quite a few people are actively interested in what's going on. Yet the level of engagement from Cryptic's "Community Management/Relations" has been rather negligible.
It would be nice to get regular updates, even if there were no significant changes, if only to show active involvement with your Community, Cryptic. :rolleyes:
As for me feeling entitled I paid a subscription but I find it hilariously ironic that I left the game for so long due to it going in a direction I didn't like, was persuaded to come back by friends... and within a week of my return there is a weekend outage, could have happened two weeks ago
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I prefer this kinda touch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUMCgZdEyU
KNOCK ON WOOD PLZ... another week would suck
I think you're confusing "I wanna sue!" with "This is crappy business." Is your husband a cryptic dev working on the game? Or are you just a fan who hopes they'll give you stuff. I don't expect compensation for this bs server crash or whatever it is but as a customer who has either subscribed or frequently spent money on this game, I'm entitled to think this is bad business and I should expect to be able to log in without hours-long crashes.
btw, on a side note, STO has a better track record with stability than many other mmo's i've played over the last couple years.
Now, to sum up: quit kissing cryptics posterior.
Just everywhere, except for on Vulcan and Andoria for some reason.
[ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
Well the worst we experienced was Thurs post patch to Tuesday emergency patch @ STO if I remember rightly.
Lucky my desk is made of wood
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Could someone direct me to the definition of passive aggressive?
And oddly enough, those two go together so well.
They had that when Dan was the man.
And YAY Tribbles back up
If you'll recall, my initial post didn't demand 'forever and ever uptime.' In fact, with other games I play, I very rarely even comment about the occasional downtime that strikes all mmos. I talked specifically about this particular game and its history and the fact that for several months just last year, a lot of players were presented with a virtually unplayable game due to the fact that they could not remain logged onto it for more than a few minutes at a time before they were dropped off the server.
In simple terms to break it down for you, it's only free for as long we don't think of ways to exploit it and in a world shaped by human exploitation, free is per vantage point of the receiver, not the giver.
Meaning the man who's had his lungs fried from the effects of H2SO4 and in need of pressurized O2 to survive would hardly consider the air he breathes free. And someone who ends up with skin cancer because of their sunbound ways will know the price they've had to pay for it when their own life hangs on the line. Even Free has a price to pay, for nothing is free of time.
... Nail and hammer sinks in to the hilt. :cool:
ok just had to say this, you do realise that what you said and what the guy you quoted said was basically the same. your analogy implies something outwith the control of AAA. which I believe was one of the points the guy you are replying to made. There is an unspoken/unwritten clause in an online service that all parties know. Sometimes the internet is $%^& and doesn't work, servers can go down, there could be a power out in the area where the servers are held, some nasty little kid could have uploaded a virus or any number of other issues. it is IMMPOSSIBLE to guarantee 100% service 24/7 365 on an online service. You know this, we all know it, we all get annoyed when it happens but it WILL happen.
ok now any update on when it will be working again anyone?