I wanted to share my opinions on some of the design concerns that have arisen, for what they're worth!
Spacedock is too big: In fact, I think that the new interior is vastly more representative of the vastness of this gigantic space station. Aesthetically, it just makes more sense. We got a feel for these big, open and more recreational feeling areas in the Motion Picture, where the crew had a sizeable recreation deck, and I personally enjoy the large feel of this interior and I'm happy that there seems to be a bit of a throwback to TMP in the design, while respecting a futuristic feel that the 25th century should bring.
In terms of getting from one vendor to another, I think that we're seeing a vast improvement. I don't think the success of a social zone is necessarily measured by the fewest number of foot-steps from one console to the next; that's why it's called a social zone, and I feel the vendors and NPCs are logically placed. I love that the vendors have their own store-front areas in most cases.
Spacedock is too clinical looking: My personal preference has always been a nice, clean, futuristic look, and there's certainly no lack of greenery. I realize this is my opinion only, but I love the clean and efficient look to it. I found the old ESD quite dark and much more industrial looking that the new one.
Club 47: While the club doesn't currently have a whole lot to it, I'd rather see a quieter, recreational style area with tables, 3D table-top games and possible room for mini-game expansion. I remember the lounge area from Search for Spock but I don't recall any flashing dance-floors or disco balls. I've personally felt that the last version of the club was kind of out of place on ESD - after all, we have dance floors on our fleet Starbases, and on Nimbus... which is where I'd kind of expect to see a bar/dance floor setting. Something that fits with the tamer ambience of the new ESD would be nice, though aside from the above, I don't have any specific suggestions.
Signage: I know that someone worked hard on those signs on the old ESD; but they don't really fit in the new ESD environment. I know that people are requesting directions for new users, but I'm not sure that I've ever played an MMO in the past that had signage directing players to this console or that vendor before. They were all just laid out intuitively, with the weaponsmith standing beside the forge, etc. I think the NPC locations are pretty intuitive here, with the tailor in his own area, the doc in sickbay etc. It's not far to walk to scout these places out, and I personally question whether signage is really required. If they decide to put it in, I hope it'll be aesthetically matching, as while my utmost respect goes out to whoever worked on the old signs, I really didn't care for them at all.
Cheers all!
Super excited for the new interior... thanks much, devs/art team.. looks amazing, imo
It takes 10 seconds to run to the exchange on the new ESD.
That's a huge amount of time for something you'd have to do over and over again. Imagine if every interface you used required you to wait 10 seconds before activating. Beyond the bridge officer trainer, I'd stay at k7 just for that reason.
That's a huge amount of time for something you'd have to do over and over again. Imagine if every interface you used required you to wait 10 seconds before activating. Beyond the bridge officer trainer, I'd stay at k7 just for that reason.
Its actually much closer to the shipyard in this build vs the old one. Its 10 seconds instead of 30 as it is currently on ESD. In case you forgot: Shipyard requires a turbolift to get to and its on the opposite side of the station.
This new layout is much more efficient: All the Vendors + Exchange are within 5 seconds of each other.
Shipyard and all its functions are together as well as in a central location that's easily reachable within ten seconds from all but the most extremely distant parts of the map (which are unlikely to be where you are coming from to the shipyard).
What will be Club 47 and sickbay are off to the side so that you don't have to run by the nightclub every time you come aboard ESD. And sickbay is rarely used by most players anyways.
And Quinn's office is off the main concourse and has every function right there with ease of access.
This is seriously an improvement on time management and ease of access. In my own experience on this new station, I'll start running across the new concourse and think "this will take forever" and then bam, I'm already across it. Seriously, Cryptic really used forced perspective well on this map. It's actually SMALLER than old ESD but in no way feels like it.
That's a huge amount of time for something you'd have to do over and over again. Imagine if every interface you used required you to wait 10 seconds before activating. Beyond the bridge officer trainer, I'd stay at k7 just for that reason.
Why would you be running back and forth between the shipyard and Exchange?
Why would you be running back and forth between the shipyard and Exchange?
Over the course of several hours/days/weeks of play? And besides, I often go from ship to bank to exchange trying out bridge officers and finding new weapons.
Why do you need to have physical distance separating tasks that are often done in sequence?
Would you have your kitchen sink in a different room from the oven? A bathroom mirror in another room from your bath?
That's how ESD has been designed and it's why it sucks and players go else where.
Over the course of several hours/days/weeks of play? And besides, I often go from ship to bank to exchange trying out bridge officers and finding new weapons.
Why do you need to have physical distance separating tasks that are often done in sequence?
Would you have your kitchen sink in a different room from the oven? A bathroom mirror in another room from your bath?
That's how ESD has been designed and it's why it sucks and players go else where.
I was confused because you made it sound like you meant within minutes.
Over the course of several hours/days/weeks of play? And besides, I often go from ship to bank to exchange trying out bridge officers and finding new weapons.
That's how ESD has been designed and it's why it sucks and players go else where.
There is a straight line between the Exchange and the Shipyard now (if you run over the glass), it is actually faster to get between them.
Also Taco has said there will be Bank and Mail consoles added to each area so less running for that too.
Had a look at some of the new changes to ESD, great so far however I'm a little worried about the fact that your siloing the exchange to a separate zone some distance away from the shipyard.
It's basic user experience design - player designs a ship, player needs new bridge officers, consoles and weapons - ideally they'd all be in one place and while the removal of zone changes greatly improves things, having the shipyard, bridge officers and exchanges in completely different places is just bad from an experience point of view.
By repeating many basic or highly used features such as banks, mail and exchange at each of the new zones, way you can continue to have a grand ESD with large open spaces, without annoying users by forcing them to journeys between interfaces they need to complete a job.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if this hasn't mentioned before or may even be something being considered, but better safe than sorry I suppose.
The issue of course however is that there needs to be logic in the universe as well as logic for game design.
If you look at from a Starbase design perspective vs a MMO design perspective then it is completely illogical to have your personnel department in the same room as your shipyard. Things get compartmentalized. And a commerce exchange would also be in a completely different section.
The devs have to satisfy both and I feel that this has an effective balance. It has to both be functional for us and also look like a Starship Service and Repair Facility, Trade Port, and Starfleet Administrative Installation.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
What are people's thoughts on adding a Dabo table to the revamped dance floor room that will be behind the currently-unfinished door in the lounge area? Or should that be limited to Drozana and DS9 like it is currently?
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Just hopped on Tribble to check this out and wow, I was impressed with the redesign in video/screenshots, but running around it myself I'm even more impressed! This is so much better than the old layout and the new visuals are great! The station feels massive now, but travel times between areas seem shorter than they used to be, and we don't need the color coding/signs to identify where we are anymore. Great job to everyone involved in this revamp!
The one thing I'm not really fond of is the placement of the admiral's office. It's just...there. It also feels crowded with the diplomats in there. I'd expect it to be on the opposite side of the area, on the outer wall of the station, and larger if the diplomats are going to be staying in there.
Just hopped on Tribble to check this out and wow, I was impressed with the redesign in video/screenshots, but running around it myself I'm even more impressed! This is so much better than the old layout and the new visuals are great! The station feels massive now, but travel times between areas seem shorter than they used to be, and we don't need the color coding/signs to identify where we are anymore. Great job to everyone involved in this revamp!
The one thing I'm not really fond of is the placement of the admiral's office. It's just...there. It also feels crowded with the diplomats in there. I'd expect it to be on the opposite side of the area, on the outer wall of the station, and larger if the diplomats are going to be staying in there.
It feels so clean. It really does feel like the Starbase equivalent of the Odyssey bridge.
I'm just glad Quinn's office isn't a reworked Ready room anymore, but a serious boss' office.
In a way it puts me in the mindset of the Chief of a Police Station, who has the office that can look out on everyone rather than an office that is so private that it's unapproachable.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Yeah, there's nothing currently going on in the conference room, so sticking them in there might be a good place to put them.
Agreed, though also I have a suggestion, In Addition to the existing Diplomats, Could we have a dedicated Foundry Diplomat Contact In that conference area? Just somebody in a Diplomatic Corps uniform, call them Jiro Sugihara's Aid/assistant or something
New Door art is nice, and the animated turbo lifts are very cool ( I hope somebody has the lower level of the starbase on their to-do list, as right now the four corridor layout doesn't match up to the new floor plan, Maybe there could be a ceremony room down there since it seems to be missing at the moment? )
The shuttlebay is great ( I noticed what looks like an untextured ramp off to the left, are we going to be able to access that room maybe? Could a "take shuttle to Fleet starbase" option similar to the new romulus Embassy be a possiblity?)
While it looks quite exposed, I like Quins Seat of power there, surveying all of the Players as the roam, Perhaps hes looking out for anybody he can promote? I wouldn't be surprised if all of Spacedock is staffed by Vice Admirals by the end of the week
Sickbay Is a lovely environment specially that ceiling detail, Though perhaps a little exposed, No privacy in 2409 I take it? Well I guess they are on the look out for potential Undine
The Tailor changing rooms are a nice touch, I always thought it strange to start undressing and dressing in the middle of a crowded room
Likewise with the new shops, they look like actual shops now, rather than a hastily built market stall in an otherwise empty room
New Exchange Computers are a big improvement, the image looks a lot sharper I'm guessing the asset has a better texture quality than before
General Plant life and water features, I Love them, gives a nice organic feel to an otherwise clinical feeling environment, something that makes the place feel a little more relaxed and inviting
Suggestions, More Civilians? One of the things I like about DS9, is the feeling that its not only an active Starbase for the Federation, But an active trading port with a thriving civilian presence , something I would like to see extended to Earth Spacedock ( I'm guessing the Tailor and the commodities brokers can't be the only non Starfleet personnel on the station? and how much business does a tailor get with Starfleet? He must have other customers too?) Also I don't think this would have too much of an impact on immersion ( ESD has a lot of non starfleet ships docking with it so why not non starfleet personnel/visitors?)
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Agreed, though also I have a suggestion, In Addition to the existing Diplomats, Could we have a dedicated Foundry Diplomat Contact In that conference area? Just somebody in a Diplomatic Corps uniform, call them Jiro Sugihara's Aid/assistant or something
I'd rather the conference area remain empty so people can use it for RP or Youtube videos personally.
I think it would be nice to have Sugihara giving a tour of ESD to the Romulan Ambassador (and maybe have a Tholian Ambassador tagging along, complaining the whole way). We've had moving contacts before (see Kirayoshi on Memory Alpha), so its totally possible.
I'd rather the conference area remain empty so people can use it for RP or Youtube videos personally.
I think it would be nice to have Sugihara giving a tour of ESD to the Romulan Ambassador (and maybe have a Tholian Ambassador tagging along, complaining the whole way). We've had moving contacts before (see Kirayoshi on Memory Alpha), so its totally possible.
Have to agree with the conference room remaining empty for player use, but Quinn should have his office to himself or have his aide in there with him. However, Fleet Starbases and Fleet Holdings are better places for conferences due to other players getting in the way either accidentally or maliciously. .
Have to agree with the conference room remaining empty for player use, but Quinn should have his office to himself or have his aide in there with him. However, Fleet Starbases and Fleet Holdings are better places for conferences due to other players getting in the way either accidentally or maliciously. .
Sadly, this is probably true, I can see people dropping an inappropriate Party ball down there just to wind people up ( Don't get me wrong, I like the disco ball when its not getting in the way of things, so I'm not hating on it, But we all know that from time to time people love to wind each other up with whatever comes to hand )
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Why do you need to have physical distance separating tasks that are often done in sequence?
Why have physical distance separating anything? Just put a console on the transporter pad with access to every conceivable thing you could possibly need access to and call it a day.
On a different note.... This seems to be the thread the Devs are actually reading and replying on... Not this so called "Official feedback thread for the new Earth Space Dock"...
Why have this thread if the Devs are going to reply to these things in other threads and NOT this one?
Lots of plants and whatnot that are not in this section. Pretty much any reflective surface in the exterior-facing room has this.
Currently there is one skyfile for the whole interior. I plan to make a secondary skyfile (and cubemap) for Ops specifically, so it will reflect the room, rather than the Concourse.
1. Mail
2. Club 47
3. Terminal for lifetime subscribers to claim the fireworks and combat EV suit
Mail and Bank will be available throughout the station on consoles located in Ops, the Shipyard, the Exchange, and the Shops. Not hooked up yet, but they're coming.
Club 47 is undergoing renovation, and won't be part of the initial ESD revamp release, with S9. We're hoping to finish the club and release it after S9.
Lifetime Subscriber console is downstairs in Ops, on the right. We'll find a better home for it, but that's where it's at at the moment.
1. I'm not sure I like how everything is out in the open. In my opinion, certain spaces should be segregated. For example, would Admiral Quinn really want his office to have a big glass wall that everybody can see through?
2. Earth looks blurry when viewed from the windows of ESD. In my opinion, you should reduce the depth-of-field effect. We can turn it off ourselves, but I don't think the effect should be so extreme here.
3. Many NPCs who used to have desks are now standing around in the middle of nowhere.
4. This change will likely break many existing Foundry missions. For example, the spotlight mission "One Too Many" uses both a single-player ESD instance and the multi-player ESD zone. Also, one of the jump training missions for IGE uses an NPC contact on the balcony in front of Admiral Quinn's office. I'm not sure what the plans are to allow Foundry authors to update their missions.
Quinn has other office space for private meetings and such. This is his command center. Just as Adama has private quarters, but spends his time in the CIC, Quinn does the same with Ops. It's not meant to be a private space.
I think there's a bug with DoF, people are reporting blurriness on other maps as well, it's not just ESD. Check your settings.
NPCs are mostly in the right area, but not specifically placed where they will be eventually. Broad strokes right now.
We've been careful to maintain all of the foundry doors, npcs, and objects. Existing missions will have to figure out where their object/door is now, but it should still function.
A little thing I noticed: There is an unreachable walkway above the main area. On its underside are small lights. However, even on max detail distance, they fade away as you walk around the room. As their locations are visible from across the map, they should be visible as well.
We're hoping to make that upper walkway available to players, just isn't yet.
The entire place needs an LOD pass (Levels of Detail - Controls how far away you can see a given object). That will come later.
The glass walls look invisible in the area with the spiral ramp where Pag is. Though the glass walls are clearly visible from the outside, they are indistinguishable from the open door from the inside. Note that I have "Reflection quality" set to "High".
Ya, that room is just roughed in at the moment. I expect those windows will get the LCARS treatment that a lot of the glass around ESD has. Should help make them more apparent.
I didn't say a blank map with menu's, but it would be better than being a rat in a maze, which this new ESD feels like. I thought the idea was to make ESD easier to use and navigate, all it is now is a new layout and cosmetic overhaul, all of which will be changed in a couple of years, if STO is still going. Yes some of it looks good, but when you come to use the new ESD you will find it not as convenient as you first thought it was.
I still think it accomplishes that goal. You can stand in the center of the concourse, and spin your camera around, and see every single important location. Yes, things are divided off into their own rooms, but that lets us dress them up more like the thing they are. We tried to group logical things. So the Tailor/Commodities/Equipment Reqs are together. The Admiral's Office is now a whole operations center with all of your peronnel management contacts, as well as mission givers, skills trainers, etc. The Shipyard is now on the same floor, not through some random door that looked like nothing. Running shouldn't be that much more than before. It's roughly the same physical size as old ESD, but you're not running in a circle anymore. For the most part you can go from entrance to entrance with little deviation.
There is only one thing I really don't like on the ESD, and it is the 'armoury' it doesn't look like an armoury.
It looks like a shop that sells guns. Unless maybe that was the point. Either way, it just feels off.
Maybe add some security officers guarding it?
Also the vendor is wearing a science/medical uniform.
This was mostly the point. We wanted that whole block to feel more like shops. Places that you go, talk to someone, and make arrangements to deliver goods to your ship. It is NOT an Armory. It is a place where captains can go, check out the latest weaponry in a safe environment, make decisions, and order up crates for their crew. Obviously, in game, you still walk away with a rifle, but that's the thought behind the room. There's no need for security, because the weapons there are just demonstration models.
I can understand those complaints on the Enterprise-D to a certain degree (The E-E's interior was perfect), but in Spacedock especially I have a different view.
Wide open space, water, trees and plant life. These things give a sense of life. Having spent several six month deployments on an Aircraft Carrier let me tell you, that when you get off the ship, it's the trees and life that really gets you. An all steel ship is....sterile. Lifeless and that is something that Starfleet would seek to avert. Especially if you're going on a five to seven + year mission where you won't see home for a long time, the Starship does need to be comfortable. And Spacedock with all of that space also has a need to be a welcoming environment. Think about it, it's a port. For some people it's the last piece of the Federation they're going to see for a long time, and for others it's the first piece of the Federation they might see ever. It's the front door to Earth the UFP capitol.
Besides you have all that space, why would you clutter it up with every scrap of military materiel you can when you can leave it open and beautiful and keep everyone's stress down with big vistas of Earth and the ships in the bay.
Phenomenal work, now ESD finally feels like a Starfleet space-station. The only thing that lets it down in my opinion is the uniforms (however I know they're out of Taco's purview); seeing as ESD is right on Earth's doorstep, it would make sense for the personnel to have upgraded to the latest dress code, i.e. the Odyssey uniforms... especially because that's a damn fine uniform...
We're hoping to make that upper walkway available to players, just isn't yet.
The entire place needs an LOD pass (Levels of Detail - Controls how far away you can see a given object). That will come later.
Just a little note on LoD: the Miranda Model goes to a lower-res model from pretty much everywhere in new ESD except for right by Capt. Yim.
Also RE: no civies on ESD. Found that last night. ESD has a whole Civilian population area. I'm sure a few come up to the Starfleet Area on business, especially with the wars going on and needing Starfleet protection.
On the whole, still spending hours doing nothing on the incomplete map because shiny objects.
Phenomenal work, now ESD finally feels like a Starfleet space-station. The only thing that lets it down in my opinion is the uniforms (however I know they're out of Taco's purview); seeing as ESD is right on Earth's doorstep, it would make sense for the personnel to have upgraded to the latest dress code, i.e. the Odyssey uniforms... especially because that's a damn fine uniform...
Would have to agree here. Whoever on the team that does the characters, i'd love to see them update all of the NPC uniforms throughout the new Earth Spacedock, with appropriate department colors, and a "uniform" uniform style.
STO lore says the "dress code was amended" to allow different Captains to use different uniform styles. But this is a fixed installation, where one would expect that all stationed crew members, would share a similar uniform look.
We've been careful to maintain all of the foundry doors, npcs, and objects. Existing missions will have to figure out where their object/door is now, but it should still function.
Thank you for the information, tacofangs. I guess all existing Foundry missions will still work, but any text referring to specific NPC or object locations will have to be updated. I remember reading that the spotlight missions were frozen. I'm not a Foundry author, so I don't know if that's true. Do you know if there's a way for authors to update spotlight missions?
They will probably want to add invisible barriers to keep people from walking on the glass above the shipyard position or climbing the girders to the top over the entire area. And seeing it already happening ESD should be a no fire zone, players have been firing off weapons, launching orbital strikes and throwing smoke grenades all over the place, I can see it becoming a regular occurrence if there isn't some zone wide lockout preventing offensive skills and weapons use, it's supposed to be Earth Space Dock, not the monkey house at the zoo.
The new consoles along the walls in the exchange look great, I hope those are going to be an example of the finished versions rather than the ugly boxes currently floating in the air which just don't fit the updated look of the interior.
I've noticed a few, what I'll call "unstitched"panels on the ramps leading down to the shipyard where you can see the seam between panel meshes and there is a large exterior frame member on the dock yard window that is misplaced to the right of it's matching interior frame on the far right window overlooking the dock. There is also a lot of unfinished artwork overlooking the shuttle dock, walls are incomplete, some have visible holes, and others appear transparent when viewed from the other side, also the shuttle dock area itself is incomplete, floor and wall textures are missing and the Danube is clipping into the nearby deck.
A number of the NPCs are mislabeled and many have been placed in locations that don't make sense for their roles or postures, for instance one npc has a posture of leaning against something but is doing so away from any walls, the dilithium weapons vendor is standing in the plaza outside the exchange while her ec sales counterpart is at a proper station, many NPCs appear to be working at non-existent consoles.
I will agree with some that Admiral Quins office appears to be a bit too open, I find it highly unlikely that any CO would want to have his office in a fishbowl for all to observe, so maybe a good solution would be to equip his office with a one way glass effect, so that from the outside the walls to his office are opaque, perhaps textured in some Star Trek related vista, but from within it's transparent as normal glass.
All in all the scale and design of the new ESD is a vast improvement and more convincing layout than the old design which just didn't seem to fit anywhere on a station the size of ESD, but there is still much to be done.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I like the new ESD. It shows a kind of advancement into the future Starfleet design.
I have one request though: Could you please get rid of the interaction induction you have when you access the bank in ESD? I meant it is not build in the bank on SF Academy, on Kronos or elsewhere but only in ESD which kinda is annoying and adds nothing to immersion anymore.
I would really appreciate this quality of life improvement.
Oh btw:
Please get rid of the docked Miranda Class inside ESD...I really don't know why it is present in there. Instead put in a more modern ship like the Aquarius or sth similar.
Comments
I thought they were just mirroring their web site's current state in-game. You know, keeping things consistent and all that. :P
Spacedock is too big: In fact, I think that the new interior is vastly more representative of the vastness of this gigantic space station. Aesthetically, it just makes more sense. We got a feel for these big, open and more recreational feeling areas in the Motion Picture, where the crew had a sizeable recreation deck, and I personally enjoy the large feel of this interior and I'm happy that there seems to be a bit of a throwback to TMP in the design, while respecting a futuristic feel that the 25th century should bring.
In terms of getting from one vendor to another, I think that we're seeing a vast improvement. I don't think the success of a social zone is necessarily measured by the fewest number of foot-steps from one console to the next; that's why it's called a social zone, and I feel the vendors and NPCs are logically placed. I love that the vendors have their own store-front areas in most cases.
Spacedock is too clinical looking: My personal preference has always been a nice, clean, futuristic look, and there's certainly no lack of greenery. I realize this is my opinion only, but I love the clean and efficient look to it. I found the old ESD quite dark and much more industrial looking that the new one.
Club 47: While the club doesn't currently have a whole lot to it, I'd rather see a quieter, recreational style area with tables, 3D table-top games and possible room for mini-game expansion. I remember the lounge area from Search for Spock but I don't recall any flashing dance-floors or disco balls. I've personally felt that the last version of the club was kind of out of place on ESD - after all, we have dance floors on our fleet Starbases, and on Nimbus... which is where I'd kind of expect to see a bar/dance floor setting. Something that fits with the tamer ambience of the new ESD would be nice, though aside from the above, I don't have any specific suggestions.
Signage: I know that someone worked hard on those signs on the old ESD; but they don't really fit in the new ESD environment. I know that people are requesting directions for new users, but I'm not sure that I've ever played an MMO in the past that had signage directing players to this console or that vendor before. They were all just laid out intuitively, with the weaponsmith standing beside the forge, etc. I think the NPC locations are pretty intuitive here, with the tailor in his own area, the doc in sickbay etc. It's not far to walk to scout these places out, and I personally question whether signage is really required. If they decide to put it in, I hope it'll be aesthetically matching, as while my utmost respect goes out to whoever worked on the old signs, I really didn't care for them at all.
Cheers all!
Super excited for the new interior... thanks much, devs/art team.. looks amazing, imo
That's a huge amount of time for something you'd have to do over and over again. Imagine if every interface you used required you to wait 10 seconds before activating. Beyond the bridge officer trainer, I'd stay at k7 just for that reason.
Its actually much closer to the shipyard in this build vs the old one. Its 10 seconds instead of 30 as it is currently on ESD. In case you forgot: Shipyard requires a turbolift to get to and its on the opposite side of the station.
This new layout is much more efficient: All the Vendors + Exchange are within 5 seconds of each other.
Shipyard and all its functions are together as well as in a central location that's easily reachable within ten seconds from all but the most extremely distant parts of the map (which are unlikely to be where you are coming from to the shipyard).
What will be Club 47 and sickbay are off to the side so that you don't have to run by the nightclub every time you come aboard ESD. And sickbay is rarely used by most players anyways.
And Quinn's office is off the main concourse and has every function right there with ease of access.
This is seriously an improvement on time management and ease of access. In my own experience on this new station, I'll start running across the new concourse and think "this will take forever" and then bam, I'm already across it. Seriously, Cryptic really used forced perspective well on this map. It's actually SMALLER than old ESD but in no way feels like it.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Why would you be running back and forth between the shipyard and Exchange?
Over the course of several hours/days/weeks of play? And besides, I often go from ship to bank to exchange trying out bridge officers and finding new weapons.
Why do you need to have physical distance separating tasks that are often done in sequence?
Would you have your kitchen sink in a different room from the oven? A bathroom mirror in another room from your bath?
That's how ESD has been designed and it's why it sucks and players go else where.
I was confused because you made it sound like you meant within minutes.
There is a straight line between the Exchange and the Shipyard now (if you run over the glass), it is actually faster to get between them.
Also Taco has said there will be Bank and Mail consoles added to each area so less running for that too.
The issue of course however is that there needs to be logic in the universe as well as logic for game design.
If you look at from a Starbase design perspective vs a MMO design perspective then it is completely illogical to have your personnel department in the same room as your shipyard. Things get compartmentalized. And a commerce exchange would also be in a completely different section.
The devs have to satisfy both and I feel that this has an effective balance. It has to both be functional for us and also look like a Starship Service and Repair Facility, Trade Port, and Starfleet Administrative Installation.
Joined January 2009
Job well done
The one thing I'm not really fond of is the placement of the admiral's office. It's just...there. It also feels crowded with the diplomats in there. I'd expect it to be on the opposite side of the area, on the outer wall of the station, and larger if the diplomats are going to be staying in there.
It feels so clean. It really does feel like the Starbase equivalent of the Odyssey bridge.
I'm just glad Quinn's office isn't a reworked Ready room anymore, but a serious boss' office.
In a way it puts me in the mindset of the Chief of a Police Station, who has the office that can look out on everyone rather than an office that is so private that it's unapproachable.
Can we get a pair of Bynars who have been arrested for trying to steal a Galaxy-class for the new ESD map? XD
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
https://twitter.com/Tumerboy/status/445254296427188224
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/starfleet_stations.htm
Agreed, though also I have a suggestion, In Addition to the existing Diplomats, Could we have a dedicated Foundry Diplomat Contact In that conference area? Just somebody in a Diplomatic Corps uniform, call them Jiro Sugihara's Aid/assistant or something
New Door art is nice, and the animated turbo lifts are very cool ( I hope somebody has the lower level of the starbase on their to-do list, as right now the four corridor layout doesn't match up to the new floor plan, Maybe there could be a ceremony room down there since it seems to be missing at the moment? )
The shuttlebay is great ( I noticed what looks like an untextured ramp off to the left, are we going to be able to access that room maybe? Could a "take shuttle to Fleet starbase" option similar to the new romulus Embassy be a possiblity?)
While it looks quite exposed, I like Quins Seat of power there, surveying all of the Players as the roam, Perhaps hes looking out for anybody he can promote? I wouldn't be surprised if all of Spacedock is staffed by Vice Admirals by the end of the week
Sickbay Is a lovely environment specially that ceiling detail, Though perhaps a little exposed, No privacy in 2409 I take it? Well I guess they are on the look out for potential Undine
The Tailor changing rooms are a nice touch, I always thought it strange to start undressing and dressing in the middle of a crowded room
Likewise with the new shops, they look like actual shops now, rather than a hastily built market stall in an otherwise empty room
New Exchange Computers are a big improvement, the image looks a lot sharper I'm guessing the asset has a better texture quality than before
General Plant life and water features, I Love them, gives a nice organic feel to an otherwise clinical feeling environment, something that makes the place feel a little more relaxed and inviting
Suggestions, More Civilians? One of the things I like about DS9, is the feeling that its not only an active Starbase for the Federation, But an active trading port with a thriving civilian presence , something I would like to see extended to Earth Spacedock ( I'm guessing the Tailor and the commodities brokers can't be the only non Starfleet personnel on the station? and how much business does a tailor get with Starfleet? He must have other customers too?) Also I don't think this would have too much of an impact on immersion ( ESD has a lot of non starfleet ships docking with it so why not non starfleet personnel/visitors?)
I'd rather the conference area remain empty so people can use it for RP or Youtube videos personally.
I think it would be nice to have Sugihara giving a tour of ESD to the Romulan Ambassador (and maybe have a Tholian Ambassador tagging along, complaining the whole way). We've had moving contacts before (see Kirayoshi on Memory Alpha), so its totally possible.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Have to agree with the conference room remaining empty for player use, but Quinn should have his office to himself or have his aide in there with him. However, Fleet Starbases and Fleet Holdings are better places for conferences due to other players getting in the way either accidentally or maliciously. .
Sadly, this is probably true, I can see people dropping an inappropriate Party ball down there just to wind people up ( Don't get me wrong, I like the disco ball when its not getting in the way of things, so I'm not hating on it, But we all know that from time to time people love to wind each other up with whatever comes to hand )
Why have physical distance separating anything? Just put a console on the transporter pad with access to every conceivable thing you could possibly need access to and call it a day.
On a different note.... This seems to be the thread the Devs are actually reading and replying on... Not this so called "Official feedback thread for the new Earth Space Dock"...
Why have this thread if the Devs are going to reply to these things in other threads and NOT this one?
Thanks, I'll fill the gap when I have a spare moment.
Currently there is one skyfile for the whole interior. I plan to make a secondary skyfile (and cubemap) for Ops specifically, so it will reflect the room, rather than the Concourse.
Mail and Bank will be available throughout the station on consoles located in Ops, the Shipyard, the Exchange, and the Shops. Not hooked up yet, but they're coming.
Club 47 is undergoing renovation, and won't be part of the initial ESD revamp release, with S9. We're hoping to finish the club and release it after S9.
Lifetime Subscriber console is downstairs in Ops, on the right. We'll find a better home for it, but that's where it's at at the moment.
Quinn has other office space for private meetings and such. This is his command center. Just as Adama has private quarters, but spends his time in the CIC, Quinn does the same with Ops. It's not meant to be a private space.
I think there's a bug with DoF, people are reporting blurriness on other maps as well, it's not just ESD. Check your settings.
NPCs are mostly in the right area, but not specifically placed where they will be eventually. Broad strokes right now.
We've been careful to maintain all of the foundry doors, npcs, and objects. Existing missions will have to figure out where their object/door is now, but it should still function.
We're hoping to make that upper walkway available to players, just isn't yet.
The entire place needs an LOD pass (Levels of Detail - Controls how far away you can see a given object). That will come later.
Ya, that room is just roughed in at the moment. I expect those windows will get the LCARS treatment that a lot of the glass around ESD has. Should help make them more apparent.
I still think it accomplishes that goal. You can stand in the center of the concourse, and spin your camera around, and see every single important location. Yes, things are divided off into their own rooms, but that lets us dress them up more like the thing they are. We tried to group logical things. So the Tailor/Commodities/Equipment Reqs are together. The Admiral's Office is now a whole operations center with all of your peronnel management contacts, as well as mission givers, skills trainers, etc. The Shipyard is now on the same floor, not through some random door that looked like nothing. Running shouldn't be that much more than before. It's roughly the same physical size as old ESD, but you're not running in a circle anymore. For the most part you can go from entrance to entrance with little deviation.
This was mostly the point. We wanted that whole block to feel more like shops. Places that you go, talk to someone, and make arrangements to deliver goods to your ship. It is NOT an Armory. It is a place where captains can go, check out the latest weaponry in a safe environment, make decisions, and order up crates for their crew. Obviously, in game, you still walk away with a rifle, but that's the thought behind the room. There's no need for security, because the weapons there are just demonstration models.
These will come.
Malcolm is in the Shipyard where he belongs. I think he's on the right?
Very much this.
Just a little note on LoD: the Miranda Model goes to a lower-res model from pretty much everywhere in new ESD except for right by Capt. Yim.
Also RE: no civies on ESD. Found that last night. ESD has a whole Civilian population area. I'm sure a few come up to the Starfleet Area on business, especially with the wars going on and needing Starfleet protection.
On the whole, still spending hours doing nothing on the incomplete map because shiny objects.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Would have to agree here. Whoever on the team that does the characters, i'd love to see them update all of the NPC uniforms throughout the new Earth Spacedock, with appropriate department colors, and a "uniform" uniform style.
STO lore says the "dress code was amended" to allow different Captains to use different uniform styles. But this is a fixed installation, where one would expect that all stationed crew members, would share a similar uniform look.
Thank you for the information, tacofangs. I guess all existing Foundry missions will still work, but any text referring to specific NPC or object locations will have to be updated. I remember reading that the spotlight missions were frozen. I'm not a Foundry author, so I don't know if that's true. Do you know if there's a way for authors to update spotlight missions?
The new consoles along the walls in the exchange look great, I hope those are going to be an example of the finished versions rather than the ugly boxes currently floating in the air which just don't fit the updated look of the interior.
I've noticed a few, what I'll call "unstitched"panels on the ramps leading down to the shipyard where you can see the seam between panel meshes and there is a large exterior frame member on the dock yard window that is misplaced to the right of it's matching interior frame on the far right window overlooking the dock. There is also a lot of unfinished artwork overlooking the shuttle dock, walls are incomplete, some have visible holes, and others appear transparent when viewed from the other side, also the shuttle dock area itself is incomplete, floor and wall textures are missing and the Danube is clipping into the nearby deck.
A number of the NPCs are mislabeled and many have been placed in locations that don't make sense for their roles or postures, for instance one npc has a posture of leaning against something but is doing so away from any walls, the dilithium weapons vendor is standing in the plaza outside the exchange while her ec sales counterpart is at a proper station, many NPCs appear to be working at non-existent consoles.
I will agree with some that Admiral Quins office appears to be a bit too open, I find it highly unlikely that any CO would want to have his office in a fishbowl for all to observe, so maybe a good solution would be to equip his office with a one way glass effect, so that from the outside the walls to his office are opaque, perhaps textured in some Star Trek related vista, but from within it's transparent as normal glass.
All in all the scale and design of the new ESD is a vast improvement and more convincing layout than the old design which just didn't seem to fit anywhere on a station the size of ESD, but there is still much to be done.
It also says 'interact' and not bank.
I have one request though: Could you please get rid of the interaction induction you have when you access the bank in ESD? I meant it is not build in the bank on SF Academy, on Kronos or elsewhere but only in ESD which kinda is annoying and adds nothing to immersion anymore.
I would really appreciate this quality of life improvement.
Oh btw:
Please get rid of the docked Miranda Class inside ESD...I really don't know why it is present in there. Instead put in a more modern ship like the Aquarius or sth similar.