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Official feedback thread for the new Earth Space Dock

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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2014
    robdmc wrote: »
    Will the DJ finally learn more then one song? If all they play is that same tune indefinitely then you can make it the most stunning place ever and I will still visit it as often as your rough white box.
    Erm... we're talking about if ESD is falling. That is, if something pushes it (or pieces of it) toward Earth (like a giant explosion). And if it's falling, it's no longer in geosynchronous orbit. Sure, until it gets into the atmospheric interface, it may stay "over" the same location, but as soon as the atmosphere starts building up, it's going to add a lot of friction and resistance, pushing it westward as it continues its descent. to the surface.

    The bigger question is, "how far westward" and that would probably have more to do with the mass and shape of the station or station pieces falling. If ESD is stationed over the Atlantic Ocean, I'd predict that the lighter pieces would fall across the middle of North America while the heavier chunks would wipe out the East Coast.

    Laws of motion man. If ESD was in synchronous orbit, just because it's losing altitude, doesn't mean it loses the momentum it had. Yes, when it hits the atmosphere, that will affect it, but you are correct that I don't know how much it would. I am not an Astrophysicist. I'm an Environment Artist. At some point we have to leave things for the suspension of disbelief within a video game based on a science fiction television show from the 60's.
    robdmc wrote: »
    Will the DJ finally learn more then one song? If all they play is that same tune indefinitely then you can make it the most stunning place ever and I will still visit it as often as your rough white box.
    darlexa wrote: »
    *maybe to head this off, you could label the door with a standard sign for the club. the door is simply closed and dogged. that way people can at least have that question answered for the,

    *second, for continuity, you might consider switching the door to the larger size seen on either end of the upp walkway since I am sure it will be a large opening for the club once its opened up.

    *will the upper level door also go into the club?

    If/When the club opens, I imagine the whole doorway area on that platform will be replaced with a proper entrance. For now, I put that in to make it look like it at least goes somewhere.

    I'm not planning on the upper walkway connecting to the Club. If there's a way to do it that makes sense, I might, but it's currently 80' up, and that's not a trivial distance to cover in stairs.

    darlexa wrote: »
    *what about one of the LaGrange points? they are natural stable points in earth space that would go a long way towards keeping the station in place. would make sense for such a massive station to get all the help with the station keeping that you can.

    *as for transporter range, wouldn't it be larger since the station would only really be doing pad-to-pad transporting? that could be why it was such an attractive option to dock ships.

    The canon shots of ESD from ST:III and TNG show it much closer than any Lagrange spots. Earth would only be a few times bigger than the moon is to us, viewed from a Lagrange point.

    I don't think ESD just does pad to pad transport. However, I expect there is quite an extensive network of relays within Earth space.
    Also I've noticed that the invisible collision meshes on new ESD still allow my character shadow to be cast on them. It's kinda weird to have a shadow on an invisible wall in front of you when you're overlooking the shuttle bay.

    That shouldn't be happening. I'll take a look.
    captaind3 wrote: »
    It looks better now. It still feels weird that the lights are on in America during the day and the lights are out in Europe though. The whole planet feels....a lot darker.
    I'm glad it feels darker. There isn't a lot of ambient light out in space, so the dark side of a planet should feel, well. . . dark. There are no lights off in Europe. Lights are on everywhere. This is the same with the current Earth on Holodeck.
    captaind3 wrote: »
    Perhaps throughout the year like with every seasonal update or something you can change the relative time of day, showing a different lighting of the planet.

    No thanks. That's a lot of maintenance work that I will never remember to do. We had a lot of discussions of things like that (Like the Holo Table showing whatever sector is relevant to a given season.) Knowing how production works, we'd follow up on that once, maybe twice, and then forget about it.
    And you would be correct except that ESD's position is not as it should be if we compare it from inside vs outside. It's off by about 45 degrees viewed from outside. If it was in the correct position then yes you would be correct.

    How's that?
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Originally Posted by darlexa View Post
    *maybe to head this off, you could label the door with a standard sign for the club. the door is simply closed and dogged. that way people can at least have that question answered for the,

    *second, for continuity, you might consider switching the door to the larger size seen on either end of the upp walkway since I am sure it will be a large opening for the club once its opened up.

    *will the upper level door also go into the club?

    If/When the club opens, I imagine the whole doorway area on that platform will be replaced with a proper entrance. For now, I put that in to make it look like it at least goes somewhere.

    I'm not planning on the upper walkway connecting to the Club. If there's a way to do it that makes sense, I might, but it's currently 80' up, and that's not a trivial distance to cover in stairs.



    If/When the club opens, I imagine the whole doorway area on that platform will be replaced with a proper entrance. For now, I put that in to make it look like it at least goes somewhere.

    I'm not planning on the upper walkway connecting to the Club. If there's a way to do it that makes sense, I might, but it's currently 80' up, and that's not a trivial distance to cover in stairs.

    *my apologies, i confused it with something else.
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    darlexa wrote: »
    Originally Posted by darlexa View Post
    *maybe to head this off, you could label the door with a standard sign for the club. the door is simply closed and dogged. that way people can at least have that question answered for the,

    *second, for continuity, you might consider switching the door to the larger size seen on either end of the upp walkway since I am sure it will be a large opening for the club once its opened up.

    *will the upper level door also go into the club?

    If/When the club opens, I imagine the whole doorway area on that platform will be replaced with a proper entrance. For now, I put that in to make it look like it at least goes somewhere.

    I'm not planning on the upper walkway connecting to the Club. If there's a way to do it that makes sense, I might, but it's currently 80' up, and that's not a trivial distance to cover in stairs.



    If/When the club opens, I imagine the whole doorway area on that platform will be replaced with a proper entrance. For now, I put that in to make it look like it at least goes somewhere.

    I'm not planning on the upper walkway connecting to the Club. If there's a way to do it that makes sense, I might, but it's currently 80' up, and that's not a trivial distance to cover in stairs.

    *my apologies, i confused it with something else.

    I'm sorry but this post is confusing, I'm not sure what is yours and what you're responding to.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    That shouldn't be happening. I'll take a look.

    If you have issues repro-ing I can provide graphics settings, hardware specs, screenshots.

    ---

    Darlexa, use the quote button next to people's posts please. Or copy and paste text from their posts and format it like this, replacing the parenthesis with square brackets:


    (QUOTE=tacofangs)That shouldn't be happening. I'll take a look.(/QUOTE)

    response to quote goes here

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    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • llywarchllywarch Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Taco. Slip that ignored Exeter in there /nod
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tuskin67 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but this post is confusing, I'm not sure what is yours and what you're responding to.

    I was retracting the comment in its entirety. I haven't fully gotten used to the quote mechanism in this forum.
  • josephdridgewayjosephdridgeway Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    darlexa wrote: »
    I was retracting the comment in its entirety. I haven't fully gotten used to the quote mechanism in this forum.

    Whether you are used to the quote function on this forum or not, you do know who to use bbc code, right?

    If you know how to write the quote code, you don't need to use the quote button. Cuz, right now, the way you do it, no one can tell what is your post, or someone else's, even if you use the * before your post. People get headaches trying to decipher your posts.
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  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    @Taco,

    I'm confuzzled. You quote me twice but with no reply.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2014
    Rob, I blame our stupid forums' stupid quote software, and how it sometimes gets stuck on one person's quote, and quotes that along with the post one might have actually intended to quote.

    Sorry.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Rob, I blame our stupid forums' stupid quote software, and how it sometimes gets stuck on one person's quote, and quotes that along with the post one might have actually intended to quote.

    Sorry.

    No worries. It is late you need sleep. We know you are on here day and night and we appreciate it.
  • kagasenseikagasensei Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just noticed the original-trek-prop blue cargo barrels on the elevator to the big shuttlebay.

    I LOVE'em (as much as one can love blue cargo barrels)...

    They look spot-on. After 4 years and 1000s of generic non-trekky cargo containers in the game, we FINALLY see the canon models! I can just hope that you guys will find the time to revisit some other locations/missions and replace some of the ugly generic containers with those Starfleet props (e.g., SB 39, S.S. Azura, Researcher Rescue-station etc. etc. etc.). It's these "little" things that really add to a Star Trek atmosphere.

    I won't even ask for them being added to the Foundry. I am a realist.
  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The shuttlebay is looking a little empty and could do with a couple of NPCs and I think it would maake a good home for the Ferengi Collector and Grym who can stand near the crates. I also believe the Independent Starship Captain can be moved to the waiting next to the commodity traders

    What's going to happen to Lieutenant Commander E'genn?

    I also believe that the Chief Engineer and Medical Officer could do with names. If the NPCs at the shipyard get names why can't they?
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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Do you thikn maybe we could upscale ESD a bit on the outside? It feels too dwarfed I think by the planet, it would also allow for the Rommie ships and larger Federation ships to get through the doors without taking half a dozen people's quarters with them.
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  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Do you thikn maybe we could upscale ESD a bit on the outside? It feels too dwarfed I think by the planet, it would also allow for the Rommie ships and larger Federation ships to get through the doors without taking half a dozen people's quarters with them.

    It is already too big.
    And it's a planet. it's supposed to dwarf everything in orbit.

    Hell, if you hang above africa while the station is above the atlantic, realistically you shouldn't even be able to SEE the station!
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  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'll grant that the scale of the planet outside is a lot more realistic. That said, the planet inside needs to be considerably bigger to match, Earth outside and inside are looking way too different now, not just in sizes but in the displacement of the continents, the Atlantic ocean fairly dominates the view of the Earth outside while inside much more of eastern and western hemisphere are visible, the illumination of the planet is different, the Earth inside is much brighter than the Earth outside, everything appears different and if the interior Earth can't be changed then maybe the exterior Earth should be adjusted so that there isn't such a gross disparity in the views.
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Whether you are used to the quote function on this forum or not, you do know who to use bbc code, right?

    If you know how to write the quote code, you don't need to use the quote button. Cuz, right now, the way you do it, no one can tell what is your post, or someone else's, even if you use the * before your post. People get headaches trying to decipher your posts.

    roger, will try harder.
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Could stream in Trek Radio...
    http://www.trekradio.net

    I'm sure you would have DJs lining up for that.

    The Priority One Pod Cast would be "Live from Earth Space Dock"...

    a live stream or at least better canned music would be a lot better. even in the wider game, it would be better if there was a wider variety of music loops for the game to select from.
  • shailatshailat Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i know new esd is new but heck, let me post some bugs i found

    1) At the end of the waterfall one side of the pond is like it is supposed to be, but on the other, you can play god and walk on water

    The Way it is supposed to look
    I AM GOD! no seriously..

    2) Balcony to roof... When you take the turbo-lift all the way on the left side of the station, you can go to the roof of the balcony

    Turbo lift
    Balcony
    Roof

    3) Deck 83 - .... On the lower lvl of the starbase, there is missing textures,

    Black textures 1
    Black textures 2
    Black textures 3

    4) Outside ESD Shipyard....The shipyard is too small, some ships don't fit inside it

    Umm captain, we dont fit 1
    Umm captain, we dont fit 2
    Umm captain, we dont fit 3

    Well that's all for now
    ogew7.jpg
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Rob, I blame our stupid forums' stupid quote software, and how it sometimes gets stuck on one person's quote, and quotes that along with the post one might have actually intended to quote.

    Sorry.

    yes, i have tried my best to deal with it, but its very hard. i don't use forums very much, but this one's reply/quote function is rather different than others i have used.

    thank you for being patient with my contributions taco.
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kagasensei wrote: »
    Just noticed the original-trek-prop blue cargo barrels on the elevator to the big shuttlebay.

    I LOVE'em (as much as one can love blue cargo barrels)...

    They look spot-on. After 4 years and 1000s of generic non-trekky cargo containers in the game, we FINALLY see the canon models! I can just hope that you guys will find the time to revisit some other locations/missions and replace some of the ugly generic containers with those Starfleet props (e.g., SB 39, S.S. Azura, Researcher Rescue-station etc. etc. etc.). It's these "little" things that really add to a Star Trek atmosphere.

    I won't even ask for them being added to the Foundry. I am a realist.

    i agree. it would be a great thing to get a full compliment of cargo containers and then start getting them into the game in the normal areas (not the missions). would make the scenery more interesting.
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i have found some of the paths used by the wandering characters in ESD to be bizarre. also, they seem to be able to on occasion ignore the scenery. i saw one miss the left side (counter clockwise) ramp, end up in the water, walk under the ramp, then through the middle of it, then continue on his route.

    the dynamic response that the characters you interact with is great, but cant can't handle more than one at a time and some of them have too large of an activation area. when one player engages with one, it can trigger several others nearby and then they ignore other players wanting to interact with them. recommend at least reducing the activation area to minimize the problem. its especially blatant in the shipyard and some of the requisition areas.
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    This content has been removed.
  • sirboulevardsirboulevard Member Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The design is very nice, modern and upscale. There are too many doors that don't open and aesthetically look out of place. Just use a wall since it basically is one and put a window or make the wall glass to see the other area through it.

    Most of those doors are Foundry hook ups. They're also to show that there is a larger facility than just this area. Also a few of those doors even have descriptors of where they go (one in the medical bay leads to the corpse chute and the two in the requistions & commodities shop mention they go into the cargo bay)
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  • novapolaris#2925 novapolaris Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Oh man. I LOVE what they've done with ESD, both inside and the map outside.

    Took another look around the station today and have been noticing all the little details that have been added. For example, the damage control and first aid lockers. Love seeing those all over the place. They really add to the feel that this is a starbase with function factored into its design.

    The new 2409-style crates, cargolifts, and PADDs look great, too. Even noticed one of the PADDs in Quinn's office is sitting upside down on the floor beneath the desk. Would love to be able to use all of these in the Foundry, they look great!

    Also noticed all the striping (the red on the walls and beams and the white on the glass) and room labeling around the station. I can also see the frame numbers on the support beams above the main concourse. Very nice touches, they REALLY add to the feel of the station! Although the room label above the door to the Chief Medical Officer's office is too long and cuts off. Is it a placeholder for a "CMO" office label?

    I can also spy some additional ships inside of the dock section of the starbase; a Nova class science vessel and a Sao Paulo class tactical escort. I take it that two smaller ships were chosen to be placed closer to the glass, to help give a sense of scale? If that's the case I agree with the decision, it really does help give a feeling that these ships really are just that big. They aren't 1:1 scale, like the Sovereign outside, are they?

    The screens at the starship section display a cycling list of ship types available. Very nice touch there, too. I can also see what you guys were doing with the "shadow wheels" of officers walking up above the internal dock cavity now, when I look up above the window in to it. Really like how it's used to give an impression of additional, populated sections of the starbase!


    As for the space map, similarly impressed.

    The placement of the Earth and the Moon feel much better and accurate. I can also see that Canada actually has lights from cities now. Guess Khan didn't wipe us all out after all!

    The drydock placement is also very impressive. I'm really liking how the Nemesis style drydocks were used, and arranged in those partial ring patterns. It looks much more like how a functional set of space drydocks would be set up, now. Sure, you can't go in them, but just the fact that they're there and arranged that way REALLY adds to things.

    Something also looks improved by the ESD model, as well, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's the fact that it's got more realistic lighting on it from the sun. Love the way that looks.

    Love the fact that there's no more nebula fog in the skymap (spacemap), the use of real star and constellation placement, and that you can even see the milky way if you look towards where Europe and Africa are on Earth. The sun looks fantastic too, using the newer tech you guys made when updating the Bajor system.


    Overall, I'm saying AAA. Fantastic work to everyone who's been working on this!
  • mjarbarmjarbar Member Posts: 2,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Just had another look around ESD and found one or two small probs:

    I cann'a read it captain

    The last part of the sign was cut off, however as this is inside the Infirmary it might be an idea to delete it or change it to say 'CMO' or something.

    Stairs floating

    A bit difficult to see here but from some angles the stairs are floating in mid air, I don't know how difficult it might be but would it be an idea to add some sort of support?

    Get your feet off the furniture

    Really a fluff thing more than anything and a bit difficult to see again but from some angles it looks as though Ensign Olesre's feet are up on the furniture and she is slouching? can Ensign Olesre's spacing be adjusted at all? as it just looks untidy!

    Another thing I would like to say is that I agree a very good thing to see would be a podcast following Taco through what it takes to design and create a map or room for STO as I think it would be a big wake up call for a lot of people who say 'Why didn't you do this?' or 'Why can't that be done?' While it isn't the same I have done a lot of desk top publishing and I know that takes an age to do sometimes and this is a lot more complicated, so would be very informative and for me at least very interesting.
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  • derrico1derrico1 Member Posts: 282 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    love The New Esd And The Shuttle Area Where You Can Take A Shuttle To Starfleet Academy Is So Cool Also .. Was Wondering Instead Of Transporting To Academy Out Doors, Is There A Way To Transport Directly To That New Shuttle Area At The Academy ?? The Area That You Go To In The Tutorial Better Place To Be If You Are Taken Shuttle Down From Esd.... THE ACADEMY SHUTTLE AREA IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF PLACES WE CAN ONLY SEE ONCE AND WITH ALL THAT GREAT WORK IT SHOULD BE OPEN UP ALL THE TIME .
  • derrico1derrico1 Member Posts: 282 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    how About Placing Some Ships You May Not Find In Esd Outside In The Drydocks ?? THIS COULD BE A GREAT WAY TO SHOW OFF NEW SHIPS OR JUST OLDER SHIPS MOVED OUT OF EARTH SPACE DOCK
  • derrico1derrico1 Member Posts: 282 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    love The New Signs How Ever Inside The Medical Bay The Sign Near The Chief Medical Officer's Office Is Cut Off A Bit
  • amosov78amosov78 Member Posts: 1,495 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Would it be possible to add the ships listed on the holographic display to the exterior map? It'd be pretty neat to see ships like the Odyssey, Challenger, and Rhode Island actually flying about in Earth orbit.
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