I think the words you are looking for are "Damn it, Jim. I'm an environment artist, not an astrophysicist."
There are several factors that would affect ESD's trajectory:
1. The force that pushes ESD out of geostationary orbit
2. Conservation of angular momentum as ESD descends
3. The effects of friction once ESD enters the atmosphere
If ESD is in geostationary orbit, then it should be revolving about the Earth from west to east. For convenience, we shall consider the west-to-east direction as positive. Suppose that an explosion pushes ESD out of orbit, but does not continue to exert a force after the initial push. Assume that the explosion is not large enough to reverse the direction of ESD's revolution about the Earth. Further assume that ESD is left mostly intact, so it loses only a negligible portion of its mass. Let m denote the mass of ESD, r denote its distance from center of the Earth, and omega denote its angular velocity. ESD's moment of inertia I is given by
I = mr^2,
and its angular momentum L is given by
L = I omega = mr^2 omega.
Assume that m stays constant during ESD's descent, that is, the station stays in once piece as it falls. By conservation of angular momentum, as r decreases, omega would have to increase. Once ESD enters the atmostphere, its angular speed would decrease due to friction. I'm not sure how to calculate this; it would probably depend in part on ESD's shape.
Note that ESD's linear momentum would not be conserved during the fall; it would increase due to the force of gravity. ESD's angular momentum is conserved, because gravity acts only in the radial direction.
The Earth's atmosphere is 100km in altitude from start to accepted finish. The fascinating thing is that it is only twenty times the height of Spacedock.
Could you calculate the rate of descent by mass?
The mass by the blueprints taco and myself are using the Starbase 79 blue prints from 1990 is 7.192 million Gross Metric Tons. I think that's a bit undersized as a Galaxy class is 4.5 million metric tons, but Spacedock is mostly hollow, but it's a good starting point. DITL lists it at 58 million metric tons which I feel is far more logical. So you have a top and a bottom. That should at least give you the minimum and maximum amount of time it would take for Spacedock to plummet through the atmosphere and how much time the atmosphere would have to act on it. Me? Why don't I do it? Dammit Jim I'm an engineer not a mathematician!
that would be fun to go to the academy shuttle bay. it would appeal to those players wanting to take the "scenic route" between the two.
i would definitely do it when im not in a hurry.
It would certainly allow those of us who can't play the new tutorial to see it.
I would take the scenic route too.
The funny thing is there isn't a way to shuttle back up to Spacedock which would be alleviated.
Taco I wanna take a sec to say thanks to you and your team, you're doing great work, and it is appreciated.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Why not have two load-screen cut-scenes one where your shuttle departs ESD and flies down to SFA & the other in reverse. You wouldn't have to unlock the shuttle bay (although I'm 100% for unlocking it) just have a turbolift that has a "shuttle to ESD" button. You could still see the shuttle bays but not necessarily have access to them.
Speaking of cut-scenes; has anyone done the new tutorial since the new Sol Space map? Does the tutorial cut-scene make sense anymore or are things all in different locations now?
Well, If anyone still had any doubts, that the All-Star Brain Trust out in Los Gatos, really can't find the end of it's own digestive tract with both hands, the rollout of the new ESD should finally put that nurse to bed. Yup, with the usual Cryptic poise, and grace, they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
There are bugs that have been in-game since pre-launch, that have gone unaddressed for over four years, yet one of the only things in the game still functioning correctly, gets replaced by somebody's half baked brainfart, full of placeholders, and clipping issues. I mean watching these guys try to make what they honestly think are smart decisions would be comically, pee-in-your-pants funny, if you weren't involved in it somehow. Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be. I'm thinking it's time for old, hop-along CapnKirky to be headin' off into the sunset...
Have you even visited ESD on Tribble?? Or, even read this thread???
If your answer is no to either of those questions, or both, then I would suggest you do both, before you start raging.
The new ESD was built by the Environment Artists, who have nothing to do with squashing bugs. And, before you say that we didn't need a new ESD, you are sadly mistaken. We have needed an new ESD since the game launched. The one on Holodeck may function ok, but it is far from what it should have been when the game launched.
Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
Yup, with the usual Cryptic poise, and grace, they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
I mean watching these guys try to make what they honestly think are smart decisions would be comically, pee-in-your-pants funny, if you weren't involved in it somehow. Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be. I'm thinking it's time for old, hop-along CapnKirky to be headin' off into the sunset...
Hi,
It's obvious you're pretty upset and disappointed at the current state of Star Trek Online, and where the priorities of the Cryptic team seem to be to make it grow and improve.
You post here fairly often, so you still obviously care... but in all of your replies you're quite cynical, negative, sarcastic, and frustrated with the work that's being done / not being done.
Perhaps you're right. 'Heading off into the sunset' for awhile and trying something else might be a good idea. Because STO is F2P, you can always come back (or not) later down the line. 'A change is as good as a rest', the saying goes.
I for one am ecstatic about the new ESD, I'm sorry you're not.
Right. Because there's no bugs in the environmental coding, huh? I'm always amused by people that really don't understand the systemic nature of computer code, when they volunteer their "expertise", on the subject. You should see about getting a job at Cryptic. You sound like you'd fit right in. Just memorize these four words. "That's not my job."
Sounds like you're the one who should apply for a job at Cyptic since you're more concerned about them not doing the job you think they should. Making ESD look better is something Tacofangs has been wanting to do for a long time and he finally got the OK to do it.
they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
This is tribble, everything in WIP.
Also if you visit ESD right on tribble I think you would be hard pressed to find any bugs.
Anyways 1 issue to report in this build
The USS Sovereign is not in sync with where it is on the Hologram, the VSS Soval and the USS Odyssey are still in sync however.
Problem appears to be that the Sovereign is moving faster then its icon on the Hologram.
Well, If anyone still had any doubts, that the All-Star Brain Trust out in Los Gatos, really can't find the end of it's own digestive tract with both hands, the rollout of the new ESD should finally put that nurse to bed. Yup, with the usual Cryptic poise, and grace, they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
There are bugs that have been in-game since pre-launch, that have gone unaddressed for over four years, yet one of the only things in the game still functioning correctly, gets replaced by somebody's half baked brainfart, full of placeholders, and clipping issues. I mean watching these guys try to make what they honestly think are smart decisions would be comically, pee-in-your-pants funny, if you weren't involved in it somehow. Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be. I'm thinking it's time for old, hop-along CapnKirky to be headin' off into the sunset...
Full of placeholders? Now now, there, let's not give out disinformation shall we? Half of the bugs you've acknowledged in your post are gone. The legomen have been gone for ages. Those Ensign Medics are getting a Character Pass.
This is a smart decision. ESD was dated and it needed to be replaced, for our sakes and to allow new players to navigate easily throughout the station. It's for the better.
Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be
The "Lego men" were replaced almost 2 weeks ago. All the NPCs are getting pass soon according to Taco on the server today. They should get a consistent uniform style and appropriate departments in the right spots.
congrats on the new block of box docks. they fit my galaxy dreadnought with plenty of room to spare.
but i really want to congratulate you on setting them so they don't interfere with the camera. im still smiling at being able to properly appreciate my ship resting inside the box dock.
only thing missing would be dock lighting coming on when a ship enters it.
congrats on the new block of box docks. they fit my galaxy dreadnought with plenty of room to spare.
but i really want to congratulate you on setting them so they don't interfere with the camera. im still smiling at being able to properly appreciate my ship resting inside the box dock.
only thing missing would be dock lighting coming on when a ship enters it.
Related to this, is there a way to prevent them from going semi-transparent at certain points?
I'm not sure exactly what triggers the switch from opaque to semi-transparent, but it seems to be positionally-related, i.e. the position of the ship with respect to the dock. When I move my ship forward from the "docked" position, with my camera located port forward below the ship, the dock switches to semi-transparent about where the centerpoint of the ship passes the forward edge of the boundary box of the dock.
Is this a tradeoff resulting from changing the dock to a no-collision entity?
Well, If anyone still had any doubts, that the All-Star Brain Trust out in Los Gatos, really can't find the end of it's own digestive tract with both hands, the rollout of the new ESD should finally put that nurse to bed. Yup, with the usual Cryptic poise, and grace, they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
There are bugs that have been in-game since pre-launch, that have gone unaddressed for over four years, yet one of the only things in the game still functioning correctly, gets replaced by somebody's half baked brainfart, full of placeholders, and clipping issues. I mean watching these guys try to make what they honestly think are smart decisions would be comically, pee-in-your-pants funny, if you weren't involved in it somehow. Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be. I'm thinking it's time for old, hop-along CapnKirky to be headin' off into the sunset...
But this is Tribble. Everything is a work in progress. This won't launch til the end of the month and the rate that they've been cleaning things up and tucking in the wires this is going to be on point when it "ships".
If you like old Spacedock and think it's fine then say so, you're entitled to think that. But there are plenty of us who feel that it was woefully inadequate, especially if you consider the quality of the Romulan Republic environments.
Since the two different versions are in fact on different decks many of us have suggested having both versions exist simultaneously, but that isn't possible.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Related to this, is there a way to prevent them from going semi-transparent at certain points?
I'm not sure exactly what triggers the switch from opaque to semi-transparent, but it seems to be positionally-related, i.e. the position of the ship with respect to the dock. When I move my ship forward from the "docked" position, with my camera located port forward below the ship, the dock switches to semi-transparent about where the centerpoint of the ship passes the forward edge of the boundary box of the dock.
Is this a tradeoff resulting from changing the dock to a no-collision entity?
No, that's just one method for it. I thought I'd set them up to just let your camera through. I'll take another look.
Well, If anyone still had any doubts, that the All-Star Brain Trust out in Los Gatos, really can't find the end of it's own digestive tract with both hands, the rollout of the new ESD should finally put that nurse to bed. Yup, with the usual Cryptic poise, and grace, they've eliminated another feature that was working perfectly fine (old ESD), and replaced it with something that is, in Cryptic's words, a "work in progress", or in the words of anybody that doesn't still believe in the Easter Bunny, "broken".
There are bugs that have been in-game since pre-launch, that have gone unaddressed for over four years, yet one of the only things in the game still functioning correctly, gets replaced by somebody's half baked brainfart, full of placeholders, and clipping issues. I mean watching these guys try to make what they honestly think are smart decisions would be comically, pee-in-your-pants funny, if you weren't involved in it somehow. Instead it's just getting painful. I have a feeling we're all going to be interacting with Lego men, and "Ensign Medics", from now, until they finally, pull the plug, however long that will be. I'm thinking it's time for old, hop-along CapnKirky to be headin' off into the sunset...
God that made me LOL so hard. It's a test server!
Taco and the rest of the environment team; New ESD is a work of art and you have my sincere thanks for making such a gigantic improvement over the old one, makes it feel like star trek and I hope to see more improvements such as this.
For our sakes? You mean for the sake of people like you, and Tacofang, that are apparently mystified, by the elegant simplicity of a circle. Might as well be Chinese algebra, right?
Anyway, have fun with that.
Unless you're just trying to insult me, no I understand the Layout VERY well. I've been here for 4 years, I should know ESD like the back of my hand.
However, that doesn't mean it's the best interior ingame, it definitely needs a change. It's just not aesthetically pleasing.
I was so happy when I read this thinking there was maybe going to be access at last to the SFA shuttlebay, I was (and am) disappointed
Also, on ESD itself, it would be nice I think if the blanking panels over the shuttlebay were turned into windows so you could look down into it from the walkway.
Also, you should walk through the lower level in DX11 mode, it is littered with black squares and the like
Also, on ESD itself, it would be nice I think if the blanking panels over the shuttlebay were turned into windows so you could look down into it from the walkway.
You can thank Thomas the Cat for the planters. . .
No, that's just one method for it. I thought I'd set them up to just let your camera through. I'll take another look.
I actually like being able to see through. Kind of a pity you can't toggle it, there are times that I would like to see through the dock and other times that I wouldn't.
I actually managed to fit my Noble into the Nemesis docks. I wasn't able to drive through but with the changes it looked extremely cool. Thanks. And I love the lighting in there.
Perhaps in Star Trek Online 2 we'll get fully functional docks with the mooring arm and umbilicals and all.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I was so happy when I read this thinking there was maybe going to be access at last to the SFA shuttlebay, I was (and am) disappointed
Also, on ESD itself, it would be nice I think if the blanking panels over the shuttlebay were turned into windows so you could look down into it from the walkway.
Also, you should walk through the lower level in DX11 mode, it is littered with black squares and the like
Well, I have no time to update SFA. So, I can remove the option to take a shuttle there, or leave it and you will beam in when you get there. Those are the options immediately available to me.
I don't know what you mean by "blanking panels?" The original intent was to have a view into the shuttlebay from above, but it didn't work out in the time we had.
Known. The black triangles are getting fixed by the graphics programming team already.
On the shuttlebay side of the walk way at the far end, when you look down over the railings you look down upon a large grey panel. I am not sure if this is over the exchange or the shuttle bay.
EDIT: Is it possible to add other destinations to the shuttlebay as well as SFA?
Well, I have no time to update SFA. So, I can remove the option to take a shuttle there, or leave it and you will beam in when you get there. Those are the options immediately available to me.
Please leave the button there. 1) It's convenient to have more than one "door" to SFA at either side of the station, and 2) it could still be a "maybe someday" thing to update SFA.
Well, I have no time to update SFA. So, I can remove the option to take a shuttle there, or leave it and you will beam in when you get there. Those are the options immediately available to me.
I don't know what you mean by "blanking panels?" The original intent was to have a view into the shuttlebay from above, but it didn't work out in the time we had.
Known. The black triangles are getting fixed by the graphics programming team already.
Maybe when this is all over you can get some sleep. I don't think you ever sleep... you are posting when I go to bed and you are posting when I get up. Everything looks great btw... I like the shuttle option as is for now and maybe sometime later you all can make the changes to SFA.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
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They will add the new club at some point and possibly a new stateroom.
What more do you need and what for?
Could you calculate the rate of descent by mass?
The mass by the blueprints taco and myself are using the Starbase 79 blue prints from 1990 is 7.192 million Gross Metric Tons. I think that's a bit undersized as a Galaxy class is 4.5 million metric tons, but Spacedock is mostly hollow, but it's a good starting point. DITL lists it at 58 million metric tons which I feel is far more logical. So you have a top and a bottom. That should at least give you the minimum and maximum amount of time it would take for Spacedock to plummet through the atmosphere and how much time the atmosphere would have to act on it. Me? Why don't I do it? Dammit Jim I'm an engineer not a mathematician!
It would certainly allow those of us who can't play the new tutorial to see it.
I would take the scenic route too.
The funny thing is there isn't a way to shuttle back up to Spacedock which would be alleviated.
Taco I wanna take a sec to say thanks to you and your team, you're doing great work, and it is appreciated.
Speaking of cut-scenes; has anyone done the new tutorial since the new Sol Space map? Does the tutorial cut-scene make sense anymore or are things all in different locations now?
peter
Have you even visited ESD on Tribble?? Or, even read this thread???
If your answer is no to either of those questions, or both, then I would suggest you do both, before you start raging.
The new ESD was built by the Environment Artists, who have nothing to do with squashing bugs. And, before you say that we didn't need a new ESD, you are sadly mistaken. We have needed an new ESD since the game launched. The one on Holodeck may function ok, but it is far from what it should have been when the game launched.
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
Hi,
It's obvious you're pretty upset and disappointed at the current state of Star Trek Online, and where the priorities of the Cryptic team seem to be to make it grow and improve.
You post here fairly often, so you still obviously care... but in all of your replies you're quite cynical, negative, sarcastic, and frustrated with the work that's being done / not being done.
Perhaps you're right. 'Heading off into the sunset' for awhile and trying something else might be a good idea. Because STO is F2P, you can always come back (or not) later down the line. 'A change is as good as a rest', the saying goes.
I for one am ecstatic about the new ESD, I'm sorry you're not.
These Are The Voyages...
Sounds like you're the one who should apply for a job at Cyptic since you're more concerned about them not doing the job you think they should. Making ESD look better is something Tacofangs has been wanting to do for a long time and he finally got the OK to do it.
Can I haz your stuff when you leave?
This is tribble, everything in WIP.
Also if you visit ESD right on tribble I think you would be hard pressed to find any bugs.
Anyways 1 issue to report in this build
The USS Sovereign is not in sync with where it is on the Hologram, the VSS Soval and the USS Odyssey are still in sync however.
Problem appears to be that the Sovereign is moving faster then its icon on the Hologram.
This is a smart decision. ESD was dated and it needed to be replaced, for our sakes and to allow new players to navigate easily throughout the station. It's for the better.
The "Lego men" were replaced almost 2 weeks ago. All the NPCs are getting pass soon according to Taco on the server today. They should get a consistent uniform style and appropriate departments in the right spots.
but i really want to congratulate you on setting them so they don't interfere with the camera. im still smiling at being able to properly appreciate my ship resting inside the box dock.
only thing missing would be dock lighting coming on when a ship enters it.
Related to this, is there a way to prevent them from going semi-transparent at certain points?
I'm not sure exactly what triggers the switch from opaque to semi-transparent, but it seems to be positionally-related, i.e. the position of the ship with respect to the dock. When I move my ship forward from the "docked" position, with my camera located port forward below the ship, the dock switches to semi-transparent about where the centerpoint of the ship passes the forward edge of the boundary box of the dock.
Is this a tradeoff resulting from changing the dock to a no-collision entity?
But this is Tribble. Everything is a work in progress. This won't launch til the end of the month and the rate that they've been cleaning things up and tucking in the wires this is going to be on point when it "ships".
If you like old Spacedock and think it's fine then say so, you're entitled to think that. But there are plenty of us who feel that it was woefully inadequate, especially if you consider the quality of the Romulan Republic environments.
Since the two different versions are in fact on different decks many of us have suggested having both versions exist simultaneously, but that isn't possible.
No, that's just one method for it. I thought I'd set them up to just let your camera through. I'll take another look.
God that made me LOL so hard. It's a test server!
Taco and the rest of the environment team; New ESD is a work of art and you have my sincere thanks for making such a gigantic improvement over the old one, makes it feel like star trek and I hope to see more improvements such as this.
However, that doesn't mean it's the best interior ingame, it definitely needs a change. It's just not aesthetically pleasing.
I was so happy when I read this thinking there was maybe going to be access at last to the SFA shuttlebay, I was (and am) disappointed
Also, on ESD itself, it would be nice I think if the blanking panels over the shuttlebay were turned into windows so you could look down into it from the walkway.
Also, you should walk through the lower level in DX11 mode, it is littered with black squares and the like
Ditto
Agreed that would be a good improvement.
I actually like being able to see through. Kind of a pity you can't toggle it, there are times that I would like to see through the dock and other times that I wouldn't.
I actually managed to fit my Noble into the Nemesis docks. I wasn't able to drive through but with the changes it looked extremely cool. Thanks. And I love the lighting in there.
Perhaps in Star Trek Online 2 we'll get fully functional docks with the mooring arm and umbilicals and all.
Well, I have no time to update SFA. So, I can remove the option to take a shuttle there, or leave it and you will beam in when you get there. Those are the options immediately available to me.
I don't know what you mean by "blanking panels?" The original intent was to have a view into the shuttlebay from above, but it didn't work out in the time we had.
Known. The black triangles are getting fixed by the graphics programming team already.
EDIT: Is it possible to add other destinations to the shuttlebay as well as SFA?
Please leave the button there. 1) It's convenient to have more than one "door" to SFA at either side of the station, and 2) it could still be a "maybe someday" thing to update SFA.
Maybe when this is all over you can get some sleep. I don't think you ever sleep... you are posting when I go to bed and you are posting when I get up. Everything looks great btw... I like the shuttle option as is for now and maybe sometime later you all can make the changes to SFA.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010