Add t that the "more of a farce" should also show he already thinks it is a farce now.
Which really just supports my point of this being hypocritical. Once people got their orion slave girls and their Excelsiors, it was time to stamp one's feet and say no more farce?
So folks who want to fly their favorite ship if it's a Connie are out of luck, but all that other farce is A-OK?
What most endgame Constitution supporters want is one that is viable at endgame. Not one that is overpowered or superior to later classes that exist at Tier Five.
Howbout this, give it the Retro Galaxy build, with no saucer sep or anything like that. Just the BOFF seating of the Retro Galaxy.
Howbout this, give it the Retro Galaxy build, with no saucer sep or anything like that. Just the BOFF seating of the Retro Galaxy.
Would that be overpowered?
lol I was just about to say how the Connie fans would probably be over-the-top happy if it's similar in preformance with the Galaxy-R, just to be able to use the Connie as their main ship.
I can't blame for that, while I would like to have the Galaxy-R improved I'm also just happy to be able to use the ship I happen to love in all of the content.
That's a nice pipedream, but if the nonstop "OMG we all wantz teh T5 Connie lolol!!!1!!!" howling so far hasn't done the trick, this latest spoonful on top of the existing mountain of "want" isn't likely to make much difference.
If it is something people want they should keep asking until it happens...just like with the Galaxy update...people have been begging for years to update it and they were constantly told no.
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Except Bops are basically just escorts, or as a another example, they are the Warplanes in your example (or at least they would be if they existed at the time of the HMS enterprise). The Hegh'ta for example is a new Bop created only recently.
Correct. I'm not saying that the newer BoP's shouldn't be tier 5, but the ones from the eras of ships like the constitution and excelsior classes are examples that dont belong on the tier 5 category. Your warplane analogy fits quite well, in that they wouldn't be the main force, but a support group to back up the flagship. Certainly you wouldnt expect them to outperform the newer models. Its the same with the constitution. I can see it maybe getting up to tier 3, but that's about it. Give it the same BO positions as its tier 5 counterparts, but it would still have either fewer weapons or far fewer hull points and shield capacity. You can only pack so much into something so relatively small.
Correct. I'm not saying that the newer BoP's shouldn't be tier 5, but the ones from the eras of ships like the constitution and excelsior classes are examples that dont belong on the tier 5 category. Your warplane analogy fits quite well, in that they wouldn't be the main force, but a support group to back up the flagship. Certainly you wouldnt expect them to outperform the newer models. Its the same with the constitution. I can see it maybe getting up to tier 3, but that's about it. Give it the same BO positions as its tier 5 counterparts, but it would still have either fewer weapons or far fewer hull points and shield capacity. You can only pack so much into something so relatively small.
That is not quite correct. If you look at the Defiant, it is smaller than the Constitution, but far more powerful. The Defiant has more space dedicated to combat while the Constitution has space dedicated to multiple things like Science, Mess Halls, Crew Quarters, Recreational Rooms, and other areas that have absolutely nothing to do with combat.
This is why I suggested a multiple Tier idea in another Tier 5 Connie thread. Basically, each ship would have different tiers based on combat, colonization, exploration, etc with additional mission content to fit these new tiers. Depending on the Tier determines how well that ship completes that mission. So if we have a mission that requires evacuating a colony to some other location, then a Defiant would suck at it while a Constitution would do much better. So a Defiant would be Tier 5 combat, Tier 1 Colonization, and Tier 1 Exploration, but a Constitution would be Tier 1 combat, Tier 5 Colonization, and Tier 5 Exploration. Of course, the Odyssey and Sovereign would be Tier 5 in everything. So people can get a Tier 5 Connie, but it won't be Tier 5 in combat.
The game should have started off with the Sovereign, Prometheus and Akira, Steamrunner and Norway, Sabre and Defiant, Intrepid and Yeager (and Elkins), and the Nova and Rhode Island (and pathfinder) as the tier 3 ships with cryptic designs for 4, 5, and 5.5.
They were the most modern in trek, but 30 years old by 2409.
All other ships should have been tiers 1 and 2 (the TNG ones) with TMP and TOS ships as tier 1 C-Store vanity items.
ENT ships shouldn't even figure (except for the NX-01 'cos it's an Enterprise).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I understand both sides of this endless, endless, and beyond endless to the point of ad nauseum endless debate. A lot of us, myself included grew up with that ship. It represents Trek. It was the star of the show at that time. However with that being said if CBS says no, then no it is. Sometimes we just can't get what we want. Whatever the outcome if it is allowed or not there are still going to be those who are thrilled and those who are angry. I'm rambling...ill stop now.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,540Community Moderator
edited March 2014
Can we finally leave this dead horse mashed potatoes alone now? I don't think there are any more lumps to beat. Any more of a beating and it will be a liquid.
Honestly I think the Connie refit would make more sense as a sci vessel. Having less weapons and hull would explain its age^^
How many times does it need to be said that connies aren't old ships? In the game they're replica ships: 25th century vessels designed to look like older ships. The connie, nx, and oberth are all modern ships in the game.
How many times does it need to be said that connies aren't old ships? In the game they're replica ships: 25th century vessels designed to look like older ships. The connie, nx, and oberth are all modern ships in the game.
People don't want to hear that.
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The same number of times some people need to be told that CBS said "No." to a T5 Connie. :rolleyes:
I can understand a newb coming to the forum and asking about a t5 connie without knowing the history. I can't understand a forum vet, who's been in many connie threads, saying something about age. The replica thing comes up in about every connie thread.
The same number of times some people need to be told that CBS said "No." to a T5 Connie. :rolleyes:
This thread isn't about that.
This thread is about all the people who absolutely LOVE flying old ships like a Galaxy or an Excelsior but pitch a fit about wanting to fly a Constitution.
And then sweep up under the rug the fact that every ship from Enterprise is in the game.
Ok, pardon my ignorance, but I've not been a part of the Constitution debate from the beginning...
I understand that CBS has said "no" to a T5 Constitution.
But what is actually being asked for? I need some clarification. Is it a T5 TOS Constitution, T5 Constitution Refit, or T5 Exeter (Retrofit)?
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This thread is about all the people who absolutely LOVE flying old ships like a Galaxy or an Excelsior but pitch a fit about wanting to fly a Constitution.
And then sweep up under the rug the fact that every ship from Enterprise is in the game.
Because they got the ship they want and frankly don't give a frak about any other ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
How many times does it need to be said that connies aren't old ships? In the game they're replica ships: 25th century vessels designed to look like older ships. The connie, nx, and oberth are all modern ships in the game.
True, but how often do we use equipment from 10 years ago or modern equipment that looks like antiques? After all, it is hard to find a person that is still using their MP3 Player, Pocket PC, Walkman, Discman, or other equipment that is outdated. I seriously doubt that humans have changed much in the 25th Century with our use and toss lifestyle especially with Replicator technology. Replicator technology just seems perfect for our use and toss lifestyle and make it even easier. Instead of cleaning our dishes in the dishwasher, we would just destroy them with the replicator.
There is the Steampunk community, but they seem to be more interested in creating modern items based on the Victorian style rather than upgrading antiques so that they are functional today.
While I can see Constitutions still being active in a minor role like Colonial support, I can't see humans with their whole use and toss lifestyle to create completely new ships that are just as good as their best ships, but look like ships from 150 years ago. Humans are slaves to progress and require making new designs even if the old design is just as good.
While I can see Constitutions still being active in a minor role like Colonial support, I can't see humans with their whole use and toss lifestyle to create completely new ships that are just as good as their best ships, but look like ships from 150 years ago. Humans are slaves to progress and require making new designs even if the old design is just as good.
The game is full of new designs, as is starfleet canon. But even in today's culture there are millions of people around the world who like older vehicles and airplanes; even when all the parts on those things are newly manufactured. My dad has a '57 chevy that only about 1/4 would be considered original parts.
Plus, it's not like starfleet was full of constitution class ships. In the tos era there were only a dozen made. There aren't hundreds of them laying around in junkyards waiting to be refurbished.
Plus it's just a game. Making a t5 connie isn't any harder then making a t5 b'rel. It's just numbers that come together in a visual style that makes players happy.
How many times does it need to be said that connies aren't old ships? In the game they're replica ships: 25th century vessels designed to look like older ships. The connie, nx, and oberth are all modern ships in the game.
The Connie as a design is over a 180 years old - Oberth is over 120 years old. Both as they were then. The NX is the only replica - The Kumari only shares a name with the vessel Shran lost in ST:E, and the D'Kyr is the result of constant updates over the 600+ years that style has been used by the Vulcans...
And before someone complains recognising that the Connie is closer to 2 centuries than one would like isn't the same as calling it useless and not worthy of being made useful for more than the first 20 levels of Fed content...
The fact is, Starfleet are in a bad enough way that Cadets are routinely given ships fresh out of Academy - I doubt they would object to using their once flagship class at this time just because its old.
The Connie as a design is over a 180 years old - Oberth is over 120 years old. Both as they were then. The NX is the only replica - The Kumari only shares a name with the vessel Shran lost in ST:E, and the D'Kyr is the result of constant updates over the 600+ years that style has been used by the Vulcans...
Nice of you to make up theories to fit your beliefs, but none of that was ever stated in the game, in the path to 2409, or in the novel.
How many times does it need to be said that connies aren't old ships? In the game they're replica ships: 25th century vessels designed to look like older ships. The connie, nx, and oberth are all modern ships in the game.
Still it's tiny, still it's an awfully outdated hull design.
Yes, as a sci-heavy retrofit with low hull hitpoints (less than the heavy cruiser) it might make halfway sense, just to put this topic to rest.
This would even give it some kind of a unique place amongst the cruisers, and tbh it surprises me that I could actually live with it. Well let's say it would just make me sigh, not shake my head in disbelief.
That being said I still think it's not needed. The ship (design) is just too old. Why would they bother upgrading it? Not worth the effort.
I think it's a sick joke that I can outfit my characters in the TOS uniforms...can go from level 1-50 with a type 2 phaser that levels up with me and yet I can't fly the iconic Constellation class starship...while people are in worst canon breaking ships.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,540Community Moderator
edited March 2014
The Constellation class... doesn't arrive until Tuesday.
I understand what you were saying, but your typo kinda left an open door. Hope you don't mind.
Tiny? It's bigger then a b'rel, t'varo, defiant, nova, etc. There are plenty of ships in this game at t5 that are smaller then the connie.
Sigh. Good job nitpicking one single piece of a statement. Good job.
Well, let's see then..
B'Rel Retro hull is 22.500
T'Varo Retro hull is 27.000
The Defiant actually doesn't count, since it's a dedicated Fed warship and much more compact than the out-outdated Constitution hull. But for completeness' sake, it's hull is 33.000.
Yes, you're right. My proposed 35k hull would be an insult to those three classes, especially the tough as nails Defiant.
33k to match a true modern warship should be plenty and more befitting, don't you think?
The D-7 is older than than constitution and is in the game as a effective ship
So all of these people crying about it being too old just dont know about canon star trek history
If cbs says no that is another matter and has nothing to do with the ship
And in every account when a constitution class starship went against d-7 the D-7 was beat
and according to Gene roddenbury it was the most powerful ship in space compared to its klingon and romulan counterprts as stated in the Federation ship manul which he approved
If CBS says no for whatever reason thats fine . but the ship and its history as set down by the creator of this game are canon and cannot be overwritten
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
Which really just supports my point of this being hypocritical. Once people got their orion slave girls and their Excelsiors, it was time to stamp one's feet and say no more farce?
So folks who want to fly their favorite ship if it's a Connie are out of luck, but all that other farce is A-OK?
Hypocrisy.
Howbout this, give it the Retro Galaxy build, with no saucer sep or anything like that. Just the BOFF seating of the Retro Galaxy.
Would that be overpowered?
lol
I can't blame for that, while I would like to have the Galaxy-R improved I'm also just happy to be able to use the ship I happen to love in all of the content.
If it is something people want they should keep asking until it happens...just like with the Galaxy update...people have been begging for years to update it and they were constantly told no.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Correct. I'm not saying that the newer BoP's shouldn't be tier 5, but the ones from the eras of ships like the constitution and excelsior classes are examples that dont belong on the tier 5 category. Your warplane analogy fits quite well, in that they wouldn't be the main force, but a support group to back up the flagship. Certainly you wouldnt expect them to outperform the newer models. Its the same with the constitution. I can see it maybe getting up to tier 3, but that's about it. Give it the same BO positions as its tier 5 counterparts, but it would still have either fewer weapons or far fewer hull points and shield capacity. You can only pack so much into something so relatively small.
Honestly I think the Connie refit would make more sense as a sci vessel. Having less weapons and hull would explain its age^^
That is not quite correct. If you look at the Defiant, it is smaller than the Constitution, but far more powerful. The Defiant has more space dedicated to combat while the Constitution has space dedicated to multiple things like Science, Mess Halls, Crew Quarters, Recreational Rooms, and other areas that have absolutely nothing to do with combat.
This is why I suggested a multiple Tier idea in another Tier 5 Connie thread. Basically, each ship would have different tiers based on combat, colonization, exploration, etc with additional mission content to fit these new tiers. Depending on the Tier determines how well that ship completes that mission. So if we have a mission that requires evacuating a colony to some other location, then a Defiant would suck at it while a Constitution would do much better. So a Defiant would be Tier 5 combat, Tier 1 Colonization, and Tier 1 Exploration, but a Constitution would be Tier 1 combat, Tier 5 Colonization, and Tier 5 Exploration. Of course, the Odyssey and Sovereign would be Tier 5 in everything. So people can get a Tier 5 Connie, but it won't be Tier 5 in combat.
They were the most modern in trek, but 30 years old by 2409.
All other ships should have been tiers 1 and 2 (the TNG ones) with TMP and TOS ships as tier 1 C-Store vanity items.
ENT ships shouldn't even figure (except for the NX-01 'cos it's an Enterprise).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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People don't want to hear that.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This thread isn't about that.
This thread is about all the people who absolutely LOVE flying old ships like a Galaxy or an Excelsior but pitch a fit about wanting to fly a Constitution.
And then sweep up under the rug the fact that every ship from Enterprise is in the game.
I understand that CBS has said "no" to a T5 Constitution.
But what is actually being asked for? I need some clarification. Is it a T5 TOS Constitution, T5 Constitution Refit, or T5 Exeter (Retrofit)?
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Because they got the ship they want and frankly don't give a frak about any other ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
True, but how often do we use equipment from 10 years ago or modern equipment that looks like antiques? After all, it is hard to find a person that is still using their MP3 Player, Pocket PC, Walkman, Discman, or other equipment that is outdated. I seriously doubt that humans have changed much in the 25th Century with our use and toss lifestyle especially with Replicator technology. Replicator technology just seems perfect for our use and toss lifestyle and make it even easier. Instead of cleaning our dishes in the dishwasher, we would just destroy them with the replicator.
There is the Steampunk community, but they seem to be more interested in creating modern items based on the Victorian style rather than upgrading antiques so that they are functional today.
While I can see Constitutions still being active in a minor role like Colonial support, I can't see humans with their whole use and toss lifestyle to create completely new ships that are just as good as their best ships, but look like ships from 150 years ago. Humans are slaves to progress and require making new designs even if the old design is just as good.
Plus, it's not like starfleet was full of constitution class ships. In the tos era there were only a dozen made. There aren't hundreds of them laying around in junkyards waiting to be refurbished.
Plus it's just a game. Making a t5 connie isn't any harder then making a t5 b'rel. It's just numbers that come together in a visual style that makes players happy.
The Connie as a design is over a 180 years old - Oberth is over 120 years old. Both as they were then. The NX is the only replica - The Kumari only shares a name with the vessel Shran lost in ST:E, and the D'Kyr is the result of constant updates over the 600+ years that style has been used by the Vulcans...
And before someone complains recognising that the Connie is closer to 2 centuries than one would like isn't the same as calling it useless and not worthy of being made useful for more than the first 20 levels of Fed content...
The fact is, Starfleet are in a bad enough way that Cadets are routinely given ships fresh out of Academy - I doubt they would object to using their once flagship class at this time just because its old.
Still it's tiny, still it's an awfully outdated hull design.
Yes, as a sci-heavy retrofit with low hull hitpoints (less than the heavy cruiser) it might make halfway sense, just to put this topic to rest.
Lt. Tac
Cmd. Eng
Lt. Eng
LtC. Sci
Ens. Sci
Consoles:
2 Tac, 3 Eng, 4 Sci (Retrofit)
3 Tac, 3 Eng, 4 Sci (Fleet Retrofit)
Hull:
35.000
38.500
Turn: 9 or 10
This would even give it some kind of a unique place amongst the cruisers, and tbh it surprises me that I could actually live with it. Well let's say it would just make me sigh, not shake my head in disbelief.
That being said I still think it's not needed. The ship (design) is just too old. Why would they bother upgrading it? Not worth the effort.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I understand what you were saying, but your typo kinda left an open door. Hope you don't mind.
Sigh. Good job nitpicking one single piece of a statement. Good job.
Well, let's see then..
B'Rel Retro hull is 22.500
T'Varo Retro hull is 27.000
The Defiant actually doesn't count, since it's a dedicated Fed warship and much more compact than the out-outdated Constitution hull. But for completeness' sake, it's hull is 33.000.
Yes, you're right. My proposed 35k hull would be an insult to those three classes, especially the tough as nails Defiant.
33k to match a true modern warship should be plenty and more befitting, don't you think?
LOL
The D-7 is older than than constitution and is in the game as a effective ship
So all of these people crying about it being too old just dont know about canon star trek history
If cbs says no that is another matter and has nothing to do with the ship
And in every account when a constitution class starship went against d-7 the D-7 was beat
and according to Gene roddenbury it was the most powerful ship in space compared to its klingon and romulan counterprts as stated in the Federation ship manul which he approved
If CBS says no for whatever reason thats fine . but the ship and its history as set down by the creator of this game are canon and cannot be overwritten
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse