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What is Everyones Beef on the Poor Constitution class

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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Nobody has a beef with the Constitution Class except CBS.
    hravik wrote: »
    I feel like we've been here before. Have we been here before? Because it sure feels like it.
    Groundhog Day? You must be stuck in a loop, cause I've never heard the Constitution Class mentioned in this place before. :P
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  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    Classifying a certain group of people as True Star Trek fans is just asking for trouble. Everyone has their own favorite Star Trek series and some of us have never watched TOS since it was before our time as this comic proves. When the US Navy starts retrofitting 19th Century Steamships with Cruise Missiles, then I will be supportive of Tier 5 Constitutions.

    Everyone keeps missing the easy solution and I'm always amazed. Cryptic shouldn't do much more to the Connie than to offer to upgrade the Boff powers. No Console upgrade, no weapon upgrades, none of it.

    Why the Boff powers you ask? STII, Cannon Rapid Fire. STVI, High Yield Torpedo 3 (when it was bombarding Kang's BoP with torpedoes after that initial one unveiled the cloak. "FIRE!")

    At least that way the person flying the ship through every level can feel like his BOs aren't going to waste.

    Honestly, it should all be a moot point anyways as this has already been described in STO canon as part of an effort to by SCE to make module Starship components sot hat anyone may play a bit of Starship "dressup". So, a Connie isn't a Connie, a Miranda isn't a Miranda just a crappy update, and the NX is a replica, but not the real thing.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I have no beef with the Constitution Class. In fact, I happen to like and respect all of the legendary starships from the Star Trek shows, including the NX, OP.

    I'm gonna' say it again, with everything that has crawled in this game - a T5 Constitution should be the last of our worries. It would make more sense to me than 50% of the stuff already in game.

    +1 for the Connie.
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  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    Yeah, isn't it amazing the lengths that connie fans will go to in order to try and convince us their pet ship is still relevant in the future's future? Someone pulled out MS Paint and cropped down a screen capture to hide everything except the saucer, then went "it's round, so it must be a constitution!". :rolleyes:

    As has already been pointed out, the constitution was not the only ship with a round saucer.

    Actually I find it much more amusing the lengths genners will go to to invalidate a ship that's THE icon for the Star Trek IP.

    The only thing that would be more amusing is if CBS decided to pull the Galaxy and or Sovereign from STO using the same lack of argument.

    Sadly most people aren't intelligent enough to see the other side of an argument and are just happy to be on the currently winning side.

    Happily, things always change, so what is the status quo now could be turned around at any time.

    Curiously, these same people were in the ultimate uproar over JJ's interpretation of Star Trek, as his timeline would invalidate and replace everything beyond TOS. So no Galaxy, no Sovereign and no Earl Grey.

    As a TOS preferring person, I see no problem with that, but can appreciate how those people raised on the following shows would be upset. It's all from one's point of view.
  • kekvinkekvin Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There was a constitution class at wolf 359. The wreck can be clearly seen on screen. I asked the ppl that made the scene and they said thats the only time a tmp constitution has been used post ST:6. I could see a connie refit T5 being released for the 50th. We have the excelsior and im willing to bet the constlation skin we cud use at T5
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Certain ships just aren't made to be tier 5. The nx, constitution, Miranda, are all examples of this. You wouldn't expect to see a t'varo up there would you? And personally, most BoPs don't have much business in that category either. If you are think about how old these ships are, its actually insane to think that they're even still in service. Its like putting the HMS Enterprise up against the u.s.s. Independence. Its just shouldn't happen.
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Certain ships just aren't made to be tier 5. The nx, constitution, Miranda, are all examples of this. You wouldn't expect to see a t'varo up there would you? And personally, most BoPs don't have much business in that category either. If you are think about how old these ships are, its actually insane to think that they're even still in service. Its like putting the HMS Enterprise up against the u.s.s. Independence. Its just shouldn't happen.

    Except Bops are basically just escorts, or as a another example, they are the Warplanes in your example (or at least they would be if they existed at the time of the HMS enterprise). The Hegh'ta for example is a new Bop created only recently.
  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Certain ships just aren't made to be tier 5. The nx, constitution, Miranda, are all examples of this. You wouldn't expect to see a t'varo up there would you? And personally, most BoPs don't have much business in that category either. If you are think about how old these ships are, its actually insane to think that they're even still in service. Its like putting the HMS Enterprise up against the u.s.s. Independence. Its just shouldn't happen.

    Meh, they're not even the same ships as pointed out in STO's lore about SCE modular ship components. I've seen arguments about size and design, but really, we're in space and with Star Trek aesthetic has always trumped necessity.

    But even without those arguments. I think a simple fix that Cryptic could do that would appease just about everyone is to give all players the opportunity of upgrading the BO powers and nothing else. You want a powerful t2 ship at VA, then you need to buy a Fleet Ship.

    Granted, this would still leave the Connie in the dust, but at least then players could have a full BO load out, which actually wouldn't break canon in anyway, and then players could feel slightly competitive at least in a PvE single player experience.
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  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Certain ships just aren't made to be tier 5. The nx, constitution, Miranda, are all examples of this. You wouldn't expect to see a t'varo up there would you? And personally, most BoPs don't have much business in that category either. If you are think about how old these ships are, its actually insane to think that they're even still in service. Its like putting the HMS Enterprise up against the u.s.s. Independence. Its just shouldn't happen.

    Also, it's worth noting that in Star Trek technology seems to slow down over time. You're talking about the difference between steam and modern day ships, but if you think about times when technology did move at a slower pace then it's completely conceivable that someone could use a ship that was a century old (except for environmental effects that eat away at the hull).

    *thought I'd mention that I was drawing a comparison between the times we live in today where technology is advancing at an incredible pace whereas in past times say prior to the 17th Century, there really wasn't as much movement technologically.
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  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    So there was a Connie at Wolf 359. Big flipping deal.

    Star Fleet put out an urgent distress call for all available ships to drop everything and rendezvous at Wolf 359 to stop an alien invader from destroying Earth, and some brave but insane skipper showed up in a hopelessly outgunned and outclassed museum piece to help out.

    Silly thing was probably kept around as a historical monument just like how America keeps and maintains the USS Constitution as part of their modern navy.

    The USS Constitution was built in 1795 and is the oldest active warship in the US Navy.

    Again, it's comparing the rapid succession in technology today with the times of the Federation. In the time of the Federation, 40-80 year old ships are still quite viable and retrofittable to explore the deepest parts of the galaxy. If there is such a thing as rapid succession of technology in Star Trek's time, then that succession is driven by modular Starship design, nanotechnology, Janeway's treasure trove of stolen borg tech, and... gel packs.


    I think the biggest issue here is that Cryptic just doesn't utilize one of the updated light cruisers for fleet. There's no reason why this can't happen.

    Similarly though, there's no reason why BO powers can't improve. BO Powers honestly should have be designed more towards greater knowledge and experience as your Captain moves up in his/her career not caged by shoddy ship builds. You think otherwise? I point to Star Trek II, Enterprise and Reliant use Rapid Cannon. I can also point to Star Trek VI where Enterprise uses high yield torpedo 3 when "targeting that explosion" and firing. Also, science abilities are a must, because the Enterprise still has a deflector dish, and that thing is the TRIBBLE'ing swiss army knife of the Federation.
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  • deathsremnantdeathsremnant Member Posts: 265
    edited March 2014
    Wall of text plus bad grammar plus no spacing...In short people don't want a game to TRIBBLE on their iconic ship. It's not a T5 ship, its extremely old. About 150+ years in in-game time from when ToS took place. Why would a ship that belongs in a museum be considered a good idea to retrofit? Short answer it wouldn't...It's why we don't take wooden Viking ships and retrofit them into the Navy.

    On a even bigger note, CBS has already said no way...they control all rights to TV series ships. So in short...get over it, it's not going to happen. Be happy you have the exeter (Or however that ships spelled) Which I think is a T2, or T3 version.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Certain ships just aren't made to be tier 5. The nx, constitution, Miranda, are all examples of this. You wouldn't expect to see a t'varo up there would you?.

    My Rom alt flys a T5 Fleet T'varo.
  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Wall of text plus bad grammar plus no spacing...In short people don't want a game to TRIBBLE on their iconic ship. It's not a T5 ship, its extremely old. About 150+ years in in-game time from when ToS took place. Why would a ship that belongs in a museum be considered a good idea to retrofit? Short answer it wouldn't...It's why we don't take wooden Viking ships and retrofit them into the Navy.

    On a even bigger note, CBS has already said no way...they control all rights to TV series ships. So in short...get over it, it's not going to happen. Be happy you have the exeter (Or however that ships spelled) Which I think is a T2, or T3 version.

    Again, better BO powers and the SCE modular ship design. i don't see why the Exeter and Excalibur classes for that matter can't be boosted to Fleet and just nix the Connie. (destroy the Vesper)

    But I don't know what CBS would say to expanding BO powers to lvl with the char instead of necessarily being tied to the ship. That would still make sense canon wise.

    And lastly, as I've repeated at least two other times, you're comparison of a Viking ship is way off. Not only is a Viking ship more than a Century and a Half old, but it's worth noting that in the last 150 years of our time line, technology has sped up at an incredible rate. This was not so before, and clearly with the Federation, this is not so in STO's time line.
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  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    My Rom alt flys a T5 Fleet T'varo.

    Yeah, so does mine. I love that ship. She's a sexy beast.
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  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    teknesia wrote: »
    Yeah, so does mine. I love that ship. She's a sexy beast.

    Can't bet that Destabilized Plasma Torpedo.

    It's like the one they used in TOS.
  • teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Can't bet that Destabilized Plasma Torpedo.

    It's like the one they used in TOS.

    Some things like the B'Rel, T'Varo, Vulcan Ships, Andorian ships, Cardassian ships, Excelsior ships, Galaxy ships, Nebula ships, the Raptor vessels, the D-7 cruisers, just hold up anywhere from 80 years to more than a century in this game.
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  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    If it had been out of service for 80 years at the time of TNG, explain why there was at least one present at the battle of Wolf 359?

    Probably something to do with temporal anomalies and inverse tachyon beams.
  • anothervisitoranothervisitor Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They could make a series of missions where you have to go back in time on behalf of Temporal Investigations to set some things right. It would require you to have a Constellation vessel. If you don't have one you can't access those missions. The opponents would match what the Constellation could throw at them.

    They could also make a different galaxy map which is smaller, because a lot less was explored in that era. Like that, players could warp in and out of the past like they go to the Dyson sphere. In that time you could have some special Connie STFs and PvP.

    There, problem solved and no more whining.

    It would be weird to have a T5 Constellation as that ship is an antique in the current era of STO.
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  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They could make a series of missions where you have to go back in time on behalf of Temporal Investigations to set some things right. It would require you to have a Constellation vessel. If you don't have one you can't access those missions. The opponents would match what the Constellation could throw at them. There, problem solved and no more whining.

    It would be weird to have a T5 Constellation as that ship is an antique in the current era of STO.
    Isn't that how we got our ambassador? :)
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,684 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Ive read a few posts n would like to know why so meny ppl ignore the fact that CBS the licence holders have said no?

    Why are ppl laying blame at cryptics/pwe feet?

    As far as star trek is concerned CBS is there god with the 10 commandments.
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  • kamenriderzero1kamenriderzero1 Member Posts: 906 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The NCC-1701 herself would have been 164 years old during the events of the game if she hadn't been blown up.

    Excelsior was 40 years younger. Her class probably wasn't put into a production run until after she had been rebuilt to a more standard design. Which means that most of the oldest Excelsior class ships are, at best, 110 years old or younger. The Galaxy class was built, and this is in the technical manual, for a service life of at least 100 years, it's not that hard to make the assumption that you could get a long lifespan out of a well built ship.

    So seeing an excelsior during TNG would have not been that big an issue since they would have been 50 to 60 years old. Then the Borg and the Dominion came along, and upgrades became necessities.


    Here's the thing, STO is not the first time a Connie has been sidelined in favor of a new design. In the early TNG episode "The Battle", USS Stargazer, Picard's first command, was intended to be a Refit Connie. when they filmed LeVar Burton saying the ship's class name, his mouth says "constitution", but the production designers used the NCC-7100 model from the ready room set as the basis for Stargazer, necistaing picking a class name that was easy to dub over ending up with "Constellation"
    Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
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  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    yeah.... I know cbs said no... its still a dump move.

    No it doesn't make sense to have a Constitution en par with a sovereign or Galaxy.
    It doesn't make sense to have a D'kyr en par with those ships, still we have one. It doesn't make sense to have even a Defaint en par with those, still its there. It doesn't make sense to have an Excelsior en par with those, its there too.
    And none of them should be en par with a Scimitar (or able even remotely scratch a Borg cube). All of this is there.

    The Constitution is the beginning of Star Trek ships itself, nothing in Star Trek will ever be even remotely that iconic.

    I don't want to fly it myself, but I understand why people want it, especially in a game where you can this point fly almost everything on high tier, a game that clearly has no intention to even remotely "balance" in a canonical sense.
    Its simply unfair and wrong to exclude THIS ONE of all ships from the end game tiers where even Enterprise era ships are present.
    Here's the thing, STO is not the first time a Connie has been sidelined in favor of a new design. In the early TNG episode "The Battle", USS Stargazer, Picard's first command, was intended to be a Refit Connie. when they filmed LeVar Burton saying the ship's class name, his mouth says "constitution", but the production designers used the NCC-7100 model from the ready room set as the basis for Stargazer, necistaing picking a class name that was easy to dub over ending up with "Constellation"

    That wasn't really intentional. They wrote the story with the Connie in mind (since they had to use available ship models) and the Constitution studio model was broken (or not available) when they made the effect shots, so they improvised by using the Model from Picards ready room (Literally, the same Model)
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The NCC-1701 herself would have been 164 years old during the events of the game if she hadn't been blown up.

    Excelsior was 40 years younger. Her class probably wasn't put into a production run until after she had been rebuilt to a more standard design. Which means that most of the oldest Excelsior class ships are, at best, 110 years old or younger. The Galaxy class was built, and this is in the technical manual, for a service life of at least 100 years, it's not that hard to make the assumption that you could get a long lifespan out of a well built ship.

    So seeing an excelsior during TNG would have not been that big an issue since they would have been 50 to 60 years old. Then the Borg and the Dominion came along, and upgrades became necessities.


    Here's the thing, STO is not the first time a Connie has been sidelined in favor of a new design. In the early TNG episode "The Battle", USS Stargazer, Picard's first command, was intended to be a Refit Connie. when they filmed LeVar Burton saying the ship's class name, his mouth says "constitution", but the production designers used the NCC-7100 model from the ready room set as the basis for Stargazer, necistaing picking a class name that was easy to dub over ending up with "Constellation"
    Keep in mind that all the old fed ships in this game aren't just ships they pulled out of the ship graveyard and gave a new coat of paint. The game defines them as replica ships. They are 25th century ships designed to look like the older vessels. A 25th century connie isn't any more unstable or unusable then a 25th century patrol escort. The connie might even be bigger then a patrol escort. :)

    Plus the game is undated with old shps. B'rel, t'varo, d'kyr, and so on; many of these ships 2+ centuries old. Age is no longer a factor in ship design for the game.

    Finally, Atari was money-hungry and going broke and couldn't convice CBS to let them sell a c-store connie. They knew that ship would be their biggest money maker and couldn't make it happen. PWE isn't less money-hungry then Atari. If there was a way to make it happen it would have happend by now. That doesn't mean it won't ever happen, but people shouldn't hold their breaths.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Constitution is the most iconic ship in Star Trek and we shouldn't get our grubby hands on it because it would be disrespectful. It doesn't matter if CBS said no or it is too old, but it is sacrilegious to piloting Kirk's ship.
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    The Constitution is the most iconic ship in Star Trek and we shouldn't get our grubby hands on it because it would be disrespectful. It doesn't matter if CBS said no or it is too old, but it is sacrilegious to piloting Kirk's ship.
    We fly it at t1. It's not disrespectful then? :)
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    The Constitution is the most iconic ship in Star Trek and we shouldn't get our grubby hands on it because it would be disrespectful. It doesn't matter if CBS said no or it is too old, but it is sacrilegious to piloting Kirk's ship.

    Except that we can already do that, in the exact same ship. No really, it is the exact same ship- it's even called Enterprise in the C-Store. Kirk's ship.

    The way I see it - it's more disrespectfull to the ship to have TOS fans trying to do end-game content in the T1 ship and failing hard, blowing up left and right than to give them a solid T5 ship that could last and let them have their fun in it.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    We fly it at t1. It's not disrespectful then? :)

    Still disrespectful, but most people only use it for a couple of hours, then they go on to some Tier 2 ship. It doesn't become our ship, it is just a temporary ship that is used. After getting to level 10, it might be taken out on rare occasions, but it doesn't see any real use. How many times do we ever see a Tier 1 Constitution in any zone? We see tons of lockbox ships, but no Tier 1 Constitutions.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They are in denial, and it's easier to blame Cryptic because they at least acknowledged their request than CBS who refuses to respond to them directly.

    Because we are hoping someone takes them to task over it and gets it fixed.

    I am realy surprised that it hasn't happened yet as passionate as Trekkies are.
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    Still disrespectful, but most people only use it for a couple of hours, then they go on to some Tier 2 ship. It doesn't become our ship, it is just a temporary ship that is used. After getting to level 10, it might be taken out on rare occasions, but it doesn't see any real use. How many times do we ever see a Tier 1 Constitution in any zone? We see tons of lockbox ships, but no Tier 1 Constitutions.
    Except that the t2 ships can also be the movie connie. :)
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,880 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If it helps I don't think the NX or the TOS Connie should be tier 5. :P
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
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