Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
The new format causes intense eyestrain and looks primitive and unprofessional. The new header is OK, though (but see my previous comments about Phaser Dude).
All planned design/ art changes are now complete (new header, text color changes, etc.). We'll continue to pass along your feedback in this thread, but a lot of the feedback before this post was provided while changes were being made -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Is there ANY chance in the forever we might see the return of reporting a post?
All planned design/ art changes are now complete (new header, text color changes, etc.). We'll continue to pass along your feedback in this thread, but a lot of the feedback before this post was provided while changes were being made -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Feedback:
1. Usernames below avatars are difficult to read. I don't want to squint to instantly recognize an avatar and a name associated with that avatar.
2. Quotations are difficult to read due to color similarities and the size of font.
3. Much of the font is too small. You don't want to make forum browsers feel like they are getting old, although many of us are. Going below a 10 point font is like asking a reader to hate you for making the experience unpleasant. Really, you need to make 12 the minimum. People hate block quotes for a good reason. Anything below 12 is irritating, unless the contrasts are bold.
4. Navigation should always be either bold or an increased font.
5. It's difficult to tell what page of a thread I am on. That was fixed up until a few moments ago. Please fix it back.
6. You need someone proficient in PS to redo your buttons and smilies. They were obviously made for a default white background. It looks very unprofessional.
7. The blue color for links needs to be brighter. Making users strain to read a link is like asking them to not trust your site, because it's a pain to instantly tell that a link is to a safe site like youtube, etc.
8. One thing that you could do to make it feel more Star Trek is use rank or profession associated colors. Veterans should be blue, mods should be gold, and devs should be red. Legacy of Romulus is over. Get rid of the green and make it feel federation.
Those are my suggested changes. Overall, don't hurt my brain. I want browsing your forums to be a pleasant experience. The easiest way to make a forum unpleasant is by making it difficult to read.
... -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard...
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Translation: Anything before this post will go unnoticed. :P
I've had a few minutes browsing since my first "OMG they broke it" reaction and may have a few suggestions. Try putting in a blackish background (with stars) for starters and perhaps reverse the headers background with post body.. hm
All planned design/ art changes are now complete (new header, text color changes, etc.). We'll continue to pass along your feedback in this thread, but a lot of the feedback before this post was provided while changes were being made -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
The grey-on-grey quotations need a slightly higher level of contrast, as they presently stand it produces more eye-strain than it should.
The shade of purple being used for names and links is very nearly the same 'tone' as the grey background which makes then difficult to read for anyone with color vision issues.
The preponderance of grey tones renders the overall design feeling cold, empty and lifeless which is about as far from a Star Trek feel as it is possible to get.
Whoever came up with the current design either doesn't know or has forgotten some of his/her basic web design principles. This is a web site for an online game that is supposed to be enjoyable and engaging. There is also a wide target audience ranging from children to young adults to the middle-aged shading into senior citizens. Colors are more engaging than grey-tones, slightly larger font sizes and higher contrast is easier on aging eyes. It has also been noted by at least one poster that even when color is used there isn't enough tonal difference to be easily read.
1. Usernames below avatars are difficult to read. I don't want to squint to instantly recognize an avatar and a name associated with that avatar.
2. Quotations are difficult to read due to color similarities and the size of font.
3. Much of the font is too small. You don't want to make forum browsers feel like they are getting old, although many of us are. Going below a 10 point font is like asking a reader to hate you for making the experience unpleasant.
4. Navigation should always be either bold or an increased font.
5. It's difficult to tell what page of a thread I am on. That was fixed up until a few moments ago. Please fix it back.
6. You need someone proficient in word to redo your buttons and smilies. They were obviously made for a default white background. It looks very unprofessional.
7. The blue color for links needs to be brighter. Making users strain to read a link is like asking them to not trust your site, because it's a pain to instantly tell that a link is to a safe site like youtube, etc.
8. One thing that you could do to make it feel more Star Trek is use rank associated colors. Veterans should be blue, mods should be gold, and devs should be red. Legacy of Romulus is over. Get rid of the green and make it feel federation.
Those are my suggested changes. Overall, don't hurt my brain. I want browsing your forums to be a pleasant experience. The easiest way to make a forum unpleasant is by making it difficult to read.
Much better stated than I could have put it. Thank you.
Contrast is better on the main thread page! The vast grey fields generate some sensory noise, which is suboptimal compared to a quiet area. But that is of course a fancy way of saying that the background is no longer black. :P
Edit: If we go one step up, to the thread index in this subsection, the previous comment about contrast stands. And as others have said, the font size is not overly generous. For that greater whole. Of eyestrain.
font is too small, eye strain!
Color clash, background was better black
header is lame, never liked the phaser guy, put a ship there
this is star trek online, make it feel trek, I'd preffered a Lcars themed forums
"skedjool" vs "shedjool" would be what's being referenced.
America's 20 different accents? Ell, Oh, Ell! I can give you more than 20 accents without leaving Kentucky. (And odds are you'll play hell comprehending 15 of them- at least 5 keep me guessing.)
So which one is how Americans say it?
Well, most Americans? In most accents?
I imagine its with the K, because its easier to pronounce, whereas with the SH it sounds more British. And is spelled that way.
Although Australian is more "shedjual".
And to topic, yeah, it hurts my eyes, hurts my brain, and makes me sick.
I'm no webpage designer, so can't tell you the in depth reasons, so i will give you an example.
This new way = pain.
The old way = good.
Everyone was happy.
So to make it easy for staff, just put it back that way. Or copy/paste that code.
All planned design/ art changes are now complete (new header, text color changes, etc.). We'll continue to pass along your feedback in this thread, but a lot of the feedback before this post was provided while changes were being made -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
(1) At the standard size, the font is still way to small to be comfortable to read.
(2) Grey color used for links and in other places is too similar to the background gray. It requires more strain to see what are and are not links now.
(3) Basically, because of the tiny font size and ridiculously difficult color choices throughout the forums are a chore to navigate at this point, the strain to read the tiny letters is headache inducing, and there seems to have been no thought given to how colors look against each other. (Grey on Grey and you expect us to see it ? Seriously?)
(4) I maintain that the entire thing no longer has any feel of 'Trek' to it. It looks uninspired and very "corporate" and "boring".
(5) The point brought up about all the smileys and buttons looking unprofessional is entirely true. Every single one of them has this very obvious white outline because they were made for a white background, not a grey one. It looks really silly.
(6) Much of the forums now has a soft focus, almost blurry look to it that is also kind of headache inducing.
Just a few thoughts
I will not visit the forums ever if these changes stick, because too many of them are headache inducing and I am already prone to migraines.
Please continue to consider things like the age of your user base, aging eyes (as pointed out before), people prone to headache from eyestrain, as you continue to consider updating and changing this.
1. Usernames below avatars are difficult to read. I don't want to squint to instantly recognize an avatar and a name associated with that avatar.
2. Quotations are difficult to read due to color similarities and the size of font.
3. Much of the font is too small. You don't want to make forum browsers feel like they are getting old, although many of us are. Going below a 10 point font is like asking a reader to hate you for making the experience unpleasant.
4. Navigation should always be either bold or an increased font.
5. It's difficult to tell what page of a thread I am on. That was fixed up until a few moments ago. Please fix it back.
6. You need someone proficient in PS to redo your buttons and smilies. They were obviously made for a default white background. It looks very unprofessional.
7. The blue color for links needs to be brighter. Making users strain to read a link is like asking them to not trust your site, because it's a pain to instantly tell that a link is to a safe site like youtube, etc.
This says it very well.
I can't stand the new color scheme. It strains my eyes and gives me a headache.
The grey background is flat out dull, very dystopian. It reminds me of this
All planned design/ art changes are now complete (new header, text color changes, etc.). We'll continue to pass along your feedback in this thread, but a lot of the feedback before this post was provided while changes were being made -- feel free to post your most up-to-date feedback after this post. Please be clear and concise in your post, in addition to being constructive, that way your feedback is heard.
NOTE: Functionality of the forums should not be included in this feedback, only art/design.
Thanks for your patience as all changes were made and verified.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
While like many, I'm happy to see the purple gone (though curious why it is there on other forums unless the plan is to remove it from those as well), the lack of consistency and differentiation between links/vlinks(alinks) is somewhat problematic as to where a person may think to go, remember where they've been, etc. At the resolutions many folks run, simply bolding links compared to standard vlinks doesn't quite provide that ease of quickly noting a difference.
The gray background, while it may be perfectly fine when used with certain set colors - is problematic with other colors (like when you guys do the notices in red - those can be somewhat painful to look at - the contrast is bad) that you use...it is definitely an issue for folks that use colored text in their signatures or even posts.
Consider the following, eh?
Federation/Starfleet Klingon Defense Force <--- is extremely difficult to read Romulan Republic
Consider the following, eh?
X, X, X, X
X, X, X X, X
X X, X
While at first glance, those may appear to jump off the screen at you as easily as if they were on a black or white background - there's a fuzz to the red that becomes annoying pretty quickly.
Consider the following, eh?
Some Rare Weapon Some Very Rare Weapon Some Ultra Rare Weapon
Those first two have me reaching for a half empty bottle of Excedrin.
While the majority of font sizes are the same, there was a selection that was previously 13.3ish which has been reduced to 12. 13.3 vs. 11 was one thing, while 12 vs. 11 is kind of meh - it does not provide enough separation - doesn't distinguish item X from item Y.
The fade/transition on the header happens too quickly. It could stand to be taller with a more gradual fade.
The various buttons (quote, reply, preview, etc) need to be cleaned up. While the issue existed even with the previous background, it's something that should be cleaned up. They're obviously designed for a white background and never had any transparency/alpha layer set for them to be used with a non-white background.
Overall, the retro minimalist style suggests the intended audience is using cell phones from the late 90's. While it is understandable that in today's world one needs to design for the mobile web, the mobile web itself has come a long way since the late 90's...
At some point would it be possible for we the users to be able to pick the color scheme we see, what the background image is, ect. I think that would be an awesome addition and it would allow players to customize their forum experience rather than having players feeling like a nameless drone in a PW collective.
Translation: Anything before this post will go unnoticed. :P
Yeah, I saw that.
They're not even trying anymore.
As for feedback, I'm looking at this now on ARC.
Page numbers are still extremely unclear.
With my bifocals I'm actually having to lean into the screen to see the typing clearly.
This is not good.
The grey is jarring and doesn't give enough contrast, although on that point I'm sure we'll adjust.
However, font size, unclear buttons, those aren't things to get used to.
The header consists of a disembodied forearm holding a hand phaser. The Bops are too generic looking, all blued out like that. It doesn't exactly scream Star Trek.
So which one is how Americans say it?
Well, most Americans? In most accents?
I imagine its with the K, because its easier to pronounce, whereas with the SH it sounds more British. And is spelled that way.
Although Australian is more "shedjual".
Correct, it gets the "K" here. Pretty much country-wide, so far as I'm aware.
I can see a disembodied arm at the top of the page!
Perfect World Entertainment is exercising its 2nd Amendment rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution of the United States, of which California is a member.
Perfect World Entertainment is exercising its 2nd Amendment rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution of the United States, of which California is a member.
If I had looked at the front page of this new and 'improved' website as a first-time player, I would have thought "What on Earth is 'ARC Beta Online-'... wait, does that say Star Trek?!"
That IP is VERY important to STO, and you've just obscured it on the online face of the game itself. You've effectively made STO look like 'Generic Space MMO By PWE.'
I don't find it to be wise, from a marketing standpoint, to make your products (which are varied) be labeled nearly identically.
Comments
The new format causes intense eyestrain and looks primitive and unprofessional. The new header is OK, though (but see my previous comments about Phaser Dude).
Seriously? Ugh. I'll need to change the color or something.
Is there ANY chance in the forever we might see the return of reporting a post?
Feedback:
1. Usernames below avatars are difficult to read. I don't want to squint to instantly recognize an avatar and a name associated with that avatar.
2. Quotations are difficult to read due to color similarities and the size of font.
3. Much of the font is too small. You don't want to make forum browsers feel like they are getting old, although many of us are. Going below a 10 point font is like asking a reader to hate you for making the experience unpleasant. Really, you need to make 12 the minimum. People hate block quotes for a good reason. Anything below 12 is irritating, unless the contrasts are bold.
4. Navigation should always be either bold or an increased font.
5. It's difficult to tell what page of a thread I am on. That was fixed up until a few moments ago. Please fix it back.
6. You need someone proficient in PS to redo your buttons and smilies. They were obviously made for a default white background. It looks very unprofessional.
7. The blue color for links needs to be brighter. Making users strain to read a link is like asking them to not trust your site, because it's a pain to instantly tell that a link is to a safe site like youtube, etc.
8. One thing that you could do to make it feel more Star Trek is use rank or profession associated colors. Veterans should be blue, mods should be gold, and devs should be red. Legacy of Romulus is over. Get rid of the green and make it feel federation.
Those are my suggested changes. Overall, don't hurt my brain. I want browsing your forums to be a pleasant experience. The easiest way to make a forum unpleasant is by making it difficult to read.
Translation: Anything before this post will go unnoticed. :P
I've had a few minutes browsing since my first "OMG they broke it" reaction and may have a few suggestions. Try putting in a blackish background (with stars) for starters and perhaps reverse the headers background with post body.. hm
The grey-on-grey quotations need a slightly higher level of contrast, as they presently stand it produces more eye-strain than it should.
The shade of purple being used for names and links is very nearly the same 'tone' as the grey background which makes then difficult to read for anyone with color vision issues.
The preponderance of grey tones renders the overall design feeling cold, empty and lifeless which is about as far from a Star Trek feel as it is possible to get.
Whoever came up with the current design either doesn't know or has forgotten some of his/her basic web design principles. This is a web site for an online game that is supposed to be enjoyable and engaging. There is also a wide target audience ranging from children to young adults to the middle-aged shading into senior citizens. Colors are more engaging than grey-tones, slightly larger font sizes and higher contrast is easier on aging eyes. It has also been noted by at least one poster that even when color is used there isn't enough tonal difference to be easily read.
Much better stated than I could have put it. Thank you.
Edit: If we go one step up, to the thread index in this subsection, the previous comment about contrast stands. And as others have said, the font size is not overly generous. For that greater whole. Of eyestrain.
---
Color clash, background was better black
header is lame, never liked the phaser guy, put a ship there
this is star trek online, make it feel trek, I'd preffered a Lcars themed forums
So which one is how Americans say it?
Well, most Americans? In most accents?
I imagine its with the K, because its easier to pronounce, whereas with the SH it sounds more British. And is spelled that way.
Although Australian is more "shedjual".
And to topic, yeah, it hurts my eyes, hurts my brain, and makes me sick.
I'm no webpage designer, so can't tell you the in depth reasons, so i will give you an example.
This new way = pain.
The old way = good.
Everyone was happy.
So to make it easy for staff, just put it back that way. Or copy/paste that code.
(1) At the standard size, the font is still way to small to be comfortable to read.
(2) Grey color used for links and in other places is too similar to the background gray. It requires more strain to see what are and are not links now.
(3) Basically, because of the tiny font size and ridiculously difficult color choices throughout the forums are a chore to navigate at this point, the strain to read the tiny letters is headache inducing, and there seems to have been no thought given to how colors look against each other. (Grey on Grey and you expect us to see it ? Seriously?)
(4) I maintain that the entire thing no longer has any feel of 'Trek' to it. It looks uninspired and very "corporate" and "boring".
(5) The point brought up about all the smileys and buttons looking unprofessional is entirely true. Every single one of them has this very obvious white outline because they were made for a white background, not a grey one. It looks really silly.
(6) Much of the forums now has a soft focus, almost blurry look to it that is also kind of headache inducing.
Just a few thoughts
I will not visit the forums ever if these changes stick, because too many of them are headache inducing and I am already prone to migraines.
Please continue to consider things like the age of your user base, aging eyes (as pointed out before), people prone to headache from eyestrain, as you continue to consider updating and changing this.
I will watch tweets to see if this changes.
peace
- John
This says it very well.
I can't stand the new color scheme. It strains my eyes and gives me a headache.
The grey background is flat out dull, very dystopian. It reminds me of this
While like many, I'm happy to see the purple gone (though curious why it is there on other forums unless the plan is to remove it from those as well), the lack of consistency and differentiation between links/vlinks(alinks) is somewhat problematic as to where a person may think to go, remember where they've been, etc. At the resolutions many folks run, simply bolding links compared to standard vlinks doesn't quite provide that ease of quickly noting a difference.
The gray background, while it may be perfectly fine when used with certain set colors - is problematic with other colors (like when you guys do the notices in red - those can be somewhat painful to look at - the contrast is bad) that you use...it is definitely an issue for folks that use colored text in their signatures or even posts.
Consider the following, eh?
Federation/Starfleet
Klingon Defense Force <--- is extremely difficult to read
Romulan Republic
Consider the following, eh?
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X
X, X
While at first glance, those may appear to jump off the screen at you as easily as if they were on a black or white background - there's a fuzz to the red that becomes annoying pretty quickly.
Consider the following, eh?
Some Rare Weapon
Some Very Rare Weapon
Some Ultra Rare Weapon
Those first two have me reaching for a half empty bottle of Excedrin.
edit: This may help - http://www.lighthouse.org/accessibility/design/accessible-print-design/effective-color-contrast
While the majority of font sizes are the same, there was a selection that was previously 13.3ish which has been reduced to 12. 13.3 vs. 11 was one thing, while 12 vs. 11 is kind of meh - it does not provide enough separation - doesn't distinguish item X from item Y.
The fade/transition on the header happens too quickly. It could stand to be taller with a more gradual fade.
The various buttons (quote, reply, preview, etc) need to be cleaned up. While the issue existed even with the previous background, it's something that should be cleaned up. They're obviously designed for a white background and never had any transparency/alpha layer set for them to be used with a non-white background.
Overall, the retro minimalist style suggests the intended audience is using cell phones from the late 90's. While it is understandable that in today's world one needs to design for the mobile web, the mobile web itself has come a long way since the late 90's...
At some point would it be possible for we the users to be able to pick the color scheme we see, what the background image is, ect. I think that would be an awesome addition and it would allow players to customize their forum experience rather than having players feeling like a nameless drone in a PW collective.
Anyway, just the ramblings of a mad man.
- Crash
...while we're talking artistic and all...
Yeah, I saw that.
They're not even trying anymore.
As for feedback, I'm looking at this now on ARC.
Page numbers are still extremely unclear.
With my bifocals I'm actually having to lean into the screen to see the typing clearly.
This is not good.
The grey is jarring and doesn't give enough contrast, although on that point I'm sure we'll adjust.
However, font size, unclear buttons, those aren't things to get used to.
The header consists of a disembodied forearm holding a hand phaser. The Bops are too generic looking, all blued out like that. It doesn't exactly scream Star Trek.
Correct, it gets the "K" here. Pretty much country-wide, so far as I'm aware.
Perfect World Entertainment is exercising its 2nd Amendment rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution of the United States, of which California is a member.
They're arming bears?
The attack toys from Champions Online would tell you yes.
EDIT: Also Clarence.
That IP is VERY important to STO, and you've just obscured it on the online face of the game itself. You've effectively made STO look like 'Generic Space MMO By PWE.'
I don't find it to be wise, from a marketing standpoint, to make your products (which are varied) be labeled nearly identically.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!